What is Racism?
Sep 22nd, 2008, in Asides, by PatungI am getting tired of discussions constantly drifting into the areas we see below, cut from the effeminate men post.
I titled this post “What is Racism?” because, hmm, some stereotypes about different peoples are actually true, and in scientific terms a stereotype must be true, or else it isn’t a stereotype…But I don’t know if there is some formula that determines at what point the exceptions to the rule become so numerous that the stereotype breaks down and has to be abandoned.
I generally don’t like accusations of “racist” and “racism” being thrown around, they are substitutes for thought and argument, or they attempt to stop thought and argument, but I don’t think I’m alone in getting weary at some people constantly carping about Chinese or Anglos, or whoever…
This is the original bit by Purba Negoro which sparked the following off:
Indosiar is also Chinese owned. UNsurpisingly its’ content is facile, derivative, cheap and trite- outirght plagiarisms of better Western models and the lowest possible investment for highest possible profit-wan, aiya- exemplify fondly held Chinese values- the love of tinsel and trinkets.
Metro TV is owned by Pak Paulo. The quality of the station is far superior than profit-at-any-cost typical Chinese penny-dreadfuls. Just like their Tempo and Jakarta Post- self-serving or self-aggrandising pulp fictions.
306 Comments on “What is Racism?”
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Oigal says:
Conspiracy or not, 2008 will be a memorable year. The year we will witness the demise of Western capitalism and greediness. I’m eager to see which banks are going to collapse tomorrow as we start a new business Monday.
You wanna bet? Although I would be closing my Rupiah Accounts if I was you. As usual the “chosen ones” (wouldn’t be you would it? Do you sleep well?)are being given time to take flight with their money. Also watch the much touted goldern child/ren of Indonesian Business do yet anther runner as the heavily leveraged, poorly modeled business empires start falling like the stack of cards. Unfortunately Indonesia is about to feel the effects of doing nothing since the last collapse and the people are going to suffer at the hands of the elite once again
Longer term going make housing more affordable tho.
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Mets says:
Can we get back on track to the topic of racism please…
there are two entirely different debates going on I feel…global capital & racism….getting very confused, unless if I am reading correctly, the effects of successful capitalism makes an individual or a race feel far superior than others and this is where the direction of the conversation is heading????
Sorry folks simple girl am I lol!!
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Marisa says:
Just like to share how the view is from here. Forwards of e-mail has been sent everywhere basically saying: Die, America, Die! Welcome to the Third World!, jumping happily in their euphoria.
Let me get this straight:
America is going broke = The rich(?) is going broke.
The rich is going broke = The rich is going to be poor.
The rich is going to be poor = The poor is going to be rich.
Thus, the poor takes over the world, just because the then-rich are going broke.Damn, if only life could be that simple..
Indeed, America is going broke, which is good, because they’ve made themselves too goddamned weak! America and their leftist hippies have no use for us anymore. Now make way for REAL FASCISTS and DICTATORS. And XENU! [Note: Xenu is this alien warlord that’s going to invade Earth]C’mon, Israel, your turn first. Others are waiting.
Just nuke it. Nuke it. Nuke it. Nuke it.Let the fun time begins.
PS: Call me up if any of you guys happened to know a good bunker builder.
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Indeed, America is going broke, which is good, because they’ve made themselves too goddamned weak!
Yea I agree..Finally other nations will be able to stand on their own two feet, no more aid or assistance money pouring in everytime there is a disaster..Just think the next major disaster Indonesia will be able to rely upon their fine brothers in the Middle East to help them out…ho di ho..
ok the above is a crock (on any level) but its amusing to watch the terminally envious predict the fall of USA..TO BE DISAPPOINTED YET AGAIN..must be a bitch to live constantly deluded..
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Patrick says:
@ Marissa- and if you listen very carefully you make out the faint sound of Abba singing the chorus of Fernando over the radio.
There was something in the air that night the stars were bright, Fernando
They were shining there for you and me for liberty, Fernando
Though we never thought that we could lose, there’s no regret
If I had to do the same again I would my friend Fernando” -
concerned says:
@dragonwall: sorry about my earlier post, it was meant for PN (i accidentally press submit) :p
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Cukurungan says:
Just think the next major disaster Indonesia will be able to rely upon their fine brothers in the Middle East to help them out…ho di ho..
Indonesia do not need to rely upon anyone on facing the next major disaster, we already survived and thriving under the big eruption of Krakatau so why we should need your help MR Oigal…I tell you that foreign assistance in here is from your brother and for your family because our people will survive either with or without the foreign assistance but for sure you will be losing job to manage foreign help and losing salary to feed your family.
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so why we should need your help MR OigalDo try and read the post chucky or get someone too I wasn’t offering my help..
but for sure you will be losing job to manage foreign help and losing salary to feed your family.
Nagh.. I don’t think so and even if so..plenty of jobs to be had..but thanks for the best wishes and same to you and yours 🙂
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Oigal,
Will you be my Special Internet Friend ?
Achmad.
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Aaaahhhh there is romance in the air @ IM lol!!!…..quite important in fact considering the thread is ‘what is racism’ lol!!
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Patrick. If you’re straight, be grateful you’re an alter ego, because no straight guy I knew listens to ABBA. At least, not ones named ‘Patrick’.
Anyways. Fernando sounds like a joke you don’t get.
Next time I comment and make out faint sound of the song, trying playing it backwards. Then make the tempo go slower and slower. Until you hear voices saying words. Make sure you do it while standing upside down and your pinky finger touching your nose.
That’s your fluffy furry friend Fernando right there, Patsolicious.
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@ Marissa – wow! a personal attack against my alter ego? And all the poor thing did was agree with your previous statement. Pity him? me ? who? or whatever? You know you really hurt my soooooooooo sensitiive side! Marissssssssssssssssa you big meanie! ha ha ha ha ha ha! Long live the “revolution, Fernando and ya Pastolicious because Marissa finds him so delightfully delicious! mmmmmmmmmmmmmm! hihihihihihihhihihhihihihihihi
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@Marissa – now my alter-alter ego side would like to comment. I thought your sarcastic posting concerning everyone jumping on the bandwagon to see the grand old USA driven into the ground etc., was very clever and therefore extremely effective. Ya, Abba is a little sappy for my taste as well but their song Fernando written about the Mexican Revolution of 1910 was a huge hit in its time because the chorus is so memorable. It also illustrates perfectly the romanticizing of revolution that many Europeans find appealing and therefore I thought it to be the perfect background music considering my earlier posting to Lairedion and also in theme with your piece. Sorry we disconnected! : > (
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Yes Patrick that Fernando business went right over my head, I thought you were taking the piss as well…anyway glad we got that sorted out, and…, those damn Swedes…
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Halo,
Will anyone else be my Special Internet Friend ?
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fullmoonflower says:
@DXP
You have a wrong concept about “bibit-bobot-bebet”.
“Bibit” means what kind of the family of the person, no matter what his or her ethnic … can be sundanese, bataks, dayaks, papuan, or else …
Javanese believe that anyone would treats his/her family same as his/her parents did.“Bobot” means the person’s character
“Bebet” means the person’s belongings … but it’s not too important, because Javanese believe that being rich or poor, it’s depend on his or her efforts …
Life is up and down, it’s like a rolling wheel …Just remember the history, every single of kings of Majapahit always had a “garwo ampil”/”selir”/mistress from China.
Even Raden Patah, the king of Demak … he is a son of a chinese mistress of King Brawijaya.So… there will be no wonder if you often see a Javanese has slit eyes and fair skin …
Mixed race marriage is not strange for Javanese, because Javanese is not racist. -
dragonwall says:
Concerned.. It’s okay and dut don’t be too serious about the error.
There are people in these blogs that needs to be told off. Many showed their arrogance to protect a certain party to their favor.
There are those who are simply just here to vent their hatred, posting propaganda making an effort they so yearned so long.There are also those that I had observed who make posting just to agitated and make harassments.
None of them mentioned shows their sincere concern about the topics. If many of them had place their efforts in expressing what their concerns are and solutions given then I am sure Indonesian would get out of these dilemna be it racial, financial or political.
I saw the webmaster telling some to move on to another thread as they had began to become more like a fish market.
Wonder if the webmaster could reidrect all comments by bloggers to the related topics and that could make it more interesting.
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Purba Negoro says:
Fullmoonflower is totally wrong.
bibit= pedigree/provenance/parentage (literally “seed for breeding”)
bebet= Rank (from bebed- a batik sash-cummerbun worn strictly according to rank) and including family rank.
bobot= “weight” or gravity perhaps, as in social standing, employment, education, authority and influence but includes existing family and bride/groom future “weight” as well.
All are completely important.
You’re obviously the most common of peasants as you have no understanding of their meaning within kekawinan bangsawanMajapahit kings NEVER married Chinese- this is total false history.
Rickleff’s definitive University recommended text A History of Modern Indonesia states nothing about Chinese marriage- even in terms of diplomacy- with the exception of MALACCAMore on this later.
But to rebut DXP:
Sociology Professor Yu Hai, who has studied at Fudan University for 17 years, believes a long-standing Chinese tradition of discrimination according to “status” has created an atmosphere conducive to racial prejudice.
“According to your status in society you receive different benefits and power. Rural people and city people; ordinary people and officials. In such a social structure, we can predict that the Chinese will have very strong feelings of racial discrimination.”
Yu believes dark-skinned foreigners are likely to face more obstacles than whites, as many Chinese see them as inferior.
But even MORE damning and totally substantiating my argument:
During my stay in China all I ever experienced were racial taunts, blatant discrimination and general loathing from the majority” says mixed-race Canadian teacher David Szykulski,
“Han Chinese people are the most openly xenophobic people I have ever met.”Professor Yu Hai says most will be respectful or even humble when encountering Westerners – even non-whites – but will look down on foreigners from poorer parts of the world. Prosperity and wealth can have a weighty influence. So could country of origin be more important than race to the Chinese? The words zhongzu (“race”) and minzu (“nation-race”) are distinguished in the Chinese language.
Yu Hai suggests the clearest example of this is a belief that intimate relationships with non-whites are unnatural, irrespective of country of origin.
“If a Chinese woman dates a white man it is social climbing. If she is with a black man, it is ‘stepping down’. In this situation, the Chinese will express very strong feelings about ethnicity.”But unlike a Chinese- Javanese don’t fabricate:
Please- all may read here:
http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2003/0417/cu18-1.htmlOh dear Tukang Cukong:
Typical Chinese hatred of truth and love of lies once again- as proven by another Chinese.
Skah Mat -
Oh dear Tukang Cukong:
Typical Chinese hatred of truth and love of lies once again- as proven by another ChineseWhen you start referring Yu Hai as Professor then he must have the brain many times bigger than yours, right?
Then , having to be away for several days to take a breath, what you are writing had proven you to be a person with no brain. EVER REBUTTING WITHOUT CROSS CHECKING…
Only TUKANG OJEK does that…low
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Purba Negoro… from your postings before, I ever read once that you wrote you are Javanese… piyayi Yugja…hmmm…
Panjenengan saestu piyayi Yugja? Menawi panjenengan saestu piyayi Yugja, mesthinipun panjenengan mboten saged ngendika kados mekaten… Tiyang Jawi kathah ingkang rabi kaliyan ras utawi suku ingkang sanes Jawi …I know you are excellent in english, but I’m not sure if you can read huruf kawi “ha na ca ra ka” words excellently as a real Javanese …
Have you ever read “Babad Jawi” in huruf kawi? I read myself, teached by my great grandmother (the mother of my father’s mother) and she is a chinese herself, but she married to a demang. She even teached me playing gamelan and Javanese dancing.
From Babad Jawi, I read that Prabu Brawijaya had a “selir cinten saking Champa” / chinese mistress from Champa (Camphucea), Raden Patah’s mother. No wonder, because Champa was in Nusantara Territory.I am a 18th generation of Maulana Malik Ibrahim, the father of walisanga, from his first wife, a chinese, a princess of Champa, Maulana Ishak’s mother. He even had a chinese name : Tan Eng Choa, even he is an Arab.
I looks chinese for sure (but with an arab nose), but I am a Javanese myself, and I am bangsawan. I also have dayak blood from my mother’s side.You know, Gusti Joyokusumo, Ngarso Dalem’s brother… his wife is from Banjarmasin, same as my mother.
Do you forget that Prabu Hayam Wuruk would marry to Dyah Ayu Pitaloka, a princess from Pajajaran as Garwo Prameswari (Queen)? But his love story was ended by Bubat War. Dyah Ayu Pitaloka is Sundanese.
So.. you cannot say that Javanese (bangsawan) can only be married to a javanese…Seems that you learned about Javanese Culture from books… but I learned Javanese Culture from my family.
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Dragonwall-
nice attept at an insult.
But your Chiense cultural values and personal stupidity shine through, For a Javanese- honest and poor is far superior than rich and dishonest.For a Hokkien- better to be a hooker than a toilet cleaner- correct?
So- far better an honest poor bike rider than a cheating, lying snivelling grovelling Hokkien pan-handler.
Of course Professor Hu Yai is many times wiser than me. I can comfortably admit there are many Chinese far smarter than myself. There are probably millions of Africans and Indians far wiser than I could dream to be.
Can a Chinese ever admit that- or is the “pathetic public face” so fragile and knowingly false- that can fracture and destroy Chinese fragile boast-based ego?
Can you admit there are many Javanese far wiser than you?
Can you admit there are millions of black Africans wiser, wealthier, more cultured and higher educated than a Chinese?
I have huge amounts about Chinese racism- as commented by Chinese experts.
Just ask me Koh Tukang Tipu Cukong.Skah mat again, moron.
Chinese perform poorly at chess- it requires lateral & original thought, assumption, prediction, memory, analysis, strategy and true intellect- not regurgitation of rote knowledge.
The corner warung owner will easily beat a Chinese at chess, time and time again. -
dragonwall.
There are people in these blogs that needs to be told off. Many showed their arrogance to protect a certain party to their favor.
There are those who are simply just here to vent their hatred, posting propaganda making an effort they so yearned so long.There are also those that I had observed who make posting just to agitated and make harassments.
None of them mentioned shows their sincere concern about the topics.
Since when Indonesia Matters got to be all so politically correct with its humor?
There are times we post sincere, well intended comments.
There are times we let others shoulder the responsibility.Indonesia Matters isn’t the one that has created all them monsters, fascists, propagandists, bigots and bullies we see day by day in this world.
Big Brother did! -
Well- since your incomplete Chinese gossip-based knowledge is second hand rubbish from a pretender- no wonder it is highly flawed is not totally spurious.
You do not even qualify for the title Raden Ayu- servant of the court.
Boso ne sanes pepak: bosone kowe= boso ngoko dengan boso madya lan sedikit boso kromo inggil.
Yes, I am originally from Jogja- not Yugya- that’s a Wong Singke corruption of what is correctly pronounced as Hyawghya- but since Chinese accent is similar in sound to two cats mating on a barbecue- it was corrupted by them and used only by them: no Javanese writes or says Yugya.
Furthermore your ignorance in Javanese is proven by use of “priyayi” a term only for “made nobles”: nouveau riche: OKB.
You are a PRETENDER: a petty concubine half-breed parasite clinging to some thread of legitimacy- but you are in fact lower than the servile class for falsely claiming nobility.
My parents are buried on Imogiri. Their burial was paid for by Sri Gusti Sultan himself.
Considering I am directly descended from Bojowijoyo- and my wife from Joyokusomo, (both sides) I know for a fact that what you claim is fact is a total MYTH about Chinese: it’s totally untrue and uncorroborated by Keraton Mangkunegaran or Ngayogyakarta Hadiningrat.
Furthermore- there are MANY Babad Jawi.Few are authorised by the Keraton.
The Pakubuwana and Mangkubumi are pretender courts too- they are not at all on the same strata as the Mangkunegaran or Ngayogyakarta Hadiningrat and their claims are often spurious or suspicious.Then it depends which version is babad Jawa is read- some even claim lineage to Muhammed, some even Ishmael.
So- your ludicrous claims and Chinatown gossip remain nonsensical and uncorrobrated by fact.
And the final nail in the coffin:
Cinten- does not translate as cina : it’s Chinese-like. As in kulit putih.See Boso Kawi kowe sanget kasar, like yourself abd.
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tomaculum says:
Even racism among brothers and sisters.
🙂 -
If you can write huruf kawi… so, the real words about Yogya is : Ngayugjakartahadiningrat.. not Nga-jogja-kartahadinigrat 😛
hehehe…
seems you CANNOT WRITE HURUF KAWI…. kangmas… 😉
are you a real Kraton person?
You know, I have an uncle in Pakubuwanan Solo also… Kanjeng Raden Mas Haryo Tumenggung …..kusumo (sorry maynot write his full name in this forum…mboten diparengaken dateng piyambakipun… wong forum puniko forum umum)…
well. as I know, no bangsawan able to talk as rude as you are… even in anger, they will keep talking elegantly…
btw : what is actual meaning of bangsawan for you? because seems you are a bangsawan kasar, an oxymoron…
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Well Marisa if you were to observe quite carefully, then you could pick out which one is here to harass, agitate, intimidate and the difference with on and off humor.
Yeah what do you expect from a racist know all piece of sh*t no-oxygen-moron. He is all but reference from the wikipedia and dictionary creating an opposite of what is factual. Even more on the exaggerating side.
Example when someone says something on bibit bobot bebet he is trying to show us his dictionary sort of things.
You should go learn more from Hamengkubuwono before pretending that you were part of the royal blood. Most likely you could be one descendant from the Mongolian, like someone used to say earlier.
There are research companies in the United States that could possibly trace you back to your root so that you are able to redefine your origin.
Of course Professor Hu Yai is many times wiser than me. I can comfortably admit there are many Chinese far smarter than myself. There are probably millions of Africans and Indians far wiser than I could dream to be
There are many many people from all race that are smart, but one for sure you won’t be the one.
Everyone can claimed they have royal burial, there is nothing to put you anywhere near there. Not even the royal dust.
That is what I say, let you sing the Great Pretender. Because there is nothing solid enough for me to waste my time browsing through your talk all nonsense comments always side tracking onto others.
You should go around dressed up like a Kratindeng and pretend you were from Krakatau.
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Sylvester says:
Yes. I can not believe that PN is bangsawan. He is just a rude “tukang becak”.
It would be very dangerous to have many PNs in Indonesian Army.
Mentang-mentang pegang senjata jadi sok jago.
PN should know that a power comes with a responsibility. -
A country will go nowhere apart from falling apart if the people are racist, such as PN.
The USA might be racist but now we see a good chance of having a first black president. Australia was racist toward Aborigin and some Asians too but since Howard until Rudd govt now there have been significant improvements. There is also little evidence of racism in China. The discrimination against some minority in Xinjiang and Tibet is not racistly driven but more to politics. There are also efforts to improve the economy in the Western China.
Indonesia also have shown many improvement to eliminate racism since Gus Dur era.So, the point is in most parts of the globe, people are fighting against racism. But here in IM we see a bigot racist like PN speaking out loud. This fanatic has to be isolated and put into cage.
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I would rather say that he might not even been in the army after all. A person that has been in the army and in possession of firearms will not behave like him. He is more like those perhaps the Petrus of the Shoeharto Era yes I mean Shoe harto Era… everyday waiting at slipi and be given “jata” you know what that means.
If you look into the Pos Kota before Soeharto was impeached, there were many hard core being popped after release from prison. The media will report that someone was shot because he was attempting to make an escape while being led to the crime scene sort of things.
My translation in filipino for PN stands for Putang iNang….
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@ Lairedion – I have been following some of your recent posts concerning the British American world-wide financial conspiracy. As I am reading your postings I am picturing you in an Amsterdam coffee shop sipping cheap bitter Euro-trash coffee and while simultaneously dragging on a rolled joint of skunk (for those of us in the know that’s a brand of marijuana sold freely in Holland) dressed in stylishly funky camouflage fatigues topped with the customary black revolutionary beret, unshaven, probably un-bathed in several days and reading an aging & slightly torn copy of Che Guevara’s “The Motorcycle Diaries” that some burnt out old hippie gave you for your summer reading. Well the summer is over and it’s definitely time to head over to “Starbucks” and get a real cup of flavorful coffee compliments of those free marketing wheeling-dealing capitalist from the good ole’ USA. If that cup of Java doesn’t wake you up then perhaps you should head to one of those new “Smart Shops” sprinkled around Amsterdam selling the latest in psilocybin mushrooms and designer drugs? That cannabis you been smoking is just making you way too paranoid and quoting any one from Argentina concerning globalization economic theory is symptomatic that your loosing way too many brain cells for your own good. : > )