What is Racism?
Sep 22nd, 2008, in Asides, by PatungI am getting tired of discussions constantly drifting into the areas we see below, cut from the effeminate men post.
I titled this post “What is Racism?” because, hmm, some stereotypes about different peoples are actually true, and in scientific terms a stereotype must be true, or else it isn’t a stereotype…But I don’t know if there is some formula that determines at what point the exceptions to the rule become so numerous that the stereotype breaks down and has to be abandoned.
I generally don’t like accusations of “racist” and “racism” being thrown around, they are substitutes for thought and argument, or they attempt to stop thought and argument, but I don’t think I’m alone in getting weary at some people constantly carping about Chinese or Anglos, or whoever…
This is the original bit by Purba Negoro which sparked the following off:
Indosiar is also Chinese owned. UNsurpisingly its’ content is facile, derivative, cheap and trite- outirght plagiarisms of better Western models and the lowest possible investment for highest possible profit-wan, aiya- exemplify fondly held Chinese values- the love of tinsel and trinkets.
Metro TV is owned by Pak Paulo. The quality of the station is far superior than profit-at-any-cost typical Chinese penny-dreadfuls. Just like their Tempo and Jakarta Post- self-serving or self-aggrandising pulp fictions.
306 Comments on “What is Racism?”
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Purba Negoro says:
Concerned- the 1945 Constitution is the only one the Rakyat and patriots will ever refer to and it is perfectly clear definitions on who is Indonesian, and will never bet.
Not 2006 SBY amendment. Pandering to an over privileged, overweening hated minority
I hope also you may be re-born a native Indonesia and feel the arrogance, hatred and exploitation in your own lands at the hands of an uninvited hostile non assimilating over-privileged minority.
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concerned says:
@Purbo Negoro :
-arrogance? you sure about that? arrogance is for the rich and spoiled(no matter what native they are)
-define native Indonesian(what about chinese indonesian? are they natives? they were born in indonesia, you know)
-and what about :
“uninvited” : you mean you don’t need any investor? if they’re uninvited, how come they get to stay in Indonesia? how come the government didn’t prevent them from coming?
“hostile” & “non assimilating” : ??? maybe they’re afraid you might hurt them? because of your non-friendly, suspicious attitude?
“over-privileged” : again, privilege is for the rich(what about the poor one?) -
Concerned,
hostile & non-assimilating-
Evidence clearly indicates because Chinese are proven racist cultural Chauvinists.We all know the “one white covers a hundred defects, wan”
It’s called Sinocentrism:
Chen Di, in his Record of the Eastern Seas (1603), identifies the indigenous people of Taiwan as simply (Dong Fan) or “Eastern Savage”, while the Dutch referred to Taiwan’s original inhabitants as “Indians” or “blacks”, based on their prior colonial experience in what is currently Indonesia (Teng 2004:61–65).The Qing Dynasty placed the southeastern barbarians (category one) including Korea, Japan, the Ry?ky? Kingdom, Annam, Cambodia, Vietnam, Siam, Champa, and Java.
The term Zengguon itself is defined as the Axle/Nail of the World: mirroring Chiense views tha the world revolves around it.
The Copernicus heliocentric model of the universe was rejected by Chinese until 1865- as Chinese thought the sun and universe revolved around China.The geographical dimension of traditional Sinocentrism was highlighted by Chinese reactions to the publication of the first world map by the Jesuit Matteo Ricci (1552-1610):
Lately Matteo Ricci utilized some false teachings to fool people, and scholars unanimously believed him…take for example the position of China on the map. He puts it not in the center but slightly to the West and inclined to the north. This is altogether far from the truth, for China should be in the center of the world, which we can prove by the single fact that we can see the North Star resting at the zenith of the heaven at midnight. How can China be treated like a small unimportant country, and placed slightly to the north as in this map?[4]
from wikipedia: “sinocentrism”
Admittedly not the best, but it’s available in Simple English for types like you
All these little facts add up to insecure ignorant superstitious clique of clannish bigots who truly think the world revolves around them and their kind. and their culture is somehow superior to all- nicluding Greco-Roman and European culture which far eclipsed them in every possible field imaginable- from economics to science sand technologyA convenient myth to hide uncomfortable facts- klke we see today with Chinese Myths about being discriminated against- WHEN the reality is they are engaged in illegal activities which make them the target of the Police and Law they have show so much contempt for and hence attempt to buy their way out a every possible moment.
The Chinese mind calculates that money spent on police is LESS than money required for legal documentation/activity/etc or possible windfalls of said illegal activities so decides, in the favour of PROFIT rather than Law or even Morally Right.
We see this with current fake baby formula- this is the third time Chinese have stooped so low as to make fake baby formula in 5 years.I quote the 1945 Constitution- which incidentally as an Indonesian you should know back to front, inside-out as one of your Duties of Citizenship.
BUT we’re all well aware how Chinese have nothing but outright contempt for Indonesia, its’ laws, norms, culture and people and so treat compulsory Pancasila related curriculuum with utter disdain
Article 261. Citizens are NATIVE Indonesian persons or persons of other nations who have acquired a legal status as citizens.
2. Conditions to acquire and other matters on citizenship shall be determined by law.
Clarifications:
Article 26, Section 1People of other nations, such as those of Dutch, Chinese and Arabic descents, whose DOMICILE is Indonesia, who RECOGNIZE Indonesia as their HOME country and are LOYAL to the Republic of Indonesia, MAY become citizens.
Endquote.
You can read yourself:
http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/countries/indonesia/ConstIndonesia.htmlThe UN defines Indigenous as people
* BEFORE colonization or annexation; or
* alongside other cultural groups during the formation of a nation-state; or
* independently or largely isolated from the influence of the claimed governance by a nation-state,and who furthermore:
* have maintained at least in part their distinct linguistic, cultural and social / organizational characteristics, and in doing so remain differentiated in some degree from the surrounding populations and dominant culture of the nation-state.To the above, a criterion is usually added to also include:
* peoples who are self-identified as indigenous, and/or those recognised as such by other groups.
So Chinese in Indonesia fail every criteria of being “natives” as defined by the UN
I’m so sorry your Kelapa Gading-North Jakarta books have such poor Chinglish as you demonstrably lack even such basic comprehension of definition of basic terms such as Native or Non-Native.
Maybe we “Fan” or Huan Na don’t know business so good one lah
But we incontrovertibly outperform you when in any task requiring even marginal non-rote based intelligence or lateral thought.
Nice try at infantile historical revisionism- back to your Slipi-Pluit-Kota anime stories on online chat sessions with other Singo-philes.
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what? you’re a history teacher? Nice try at infantile historical revisionism (i don’t even try, duh)
i’m sorry for my poor chinglish, but what do you mean by “Simple English for types like you”? simple english for people like you? or what?
and why do you speak about china(country) i don’t even care(i don’t live there fyi)
read this,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_terminology_for_race
“It was later found that skin color depended essentially from the amount of melanin, and could vary widely in the same community. Thus, it could not provide a satisfying way to classify ethnic groups, much less “races.”The UN defines Indigenous as people
* BEFORE colonization or annexation; or
* alongside other cultural groups during the formation of a nation-state; or
* independently or largely isolated from the influence of the claimed governance by a nation-state,
and who furthermore:
* have maintained at least in part their distinct linguistic, cultural and social / organizational characteristics, and in doing so remain differentiated in some degree from the surrounding populations and dominant culture of the nation-state.
==>if the “chinese” people speaks indonesian, or any other “suku” language in indonesia, that means they’re indonesian, right?Maybe we “Fan” or Huan Na don’t know business so good one lah
fan means rice right?
huan na means indonesian
what do you mean by “don’t know business so good one lah” please explain it in english not singlish or chinglishhostile & non-assimilating-
..”racist cultural Chauvinists” -> are you talking about yourself? the description fits you“Not 2006 SBY amendment” -> it’s The President amendment, why don’t you at least respect it, not saying “it’s not right blah blah blah..”
oh and do you like anime? because you seem to know a lot
you should watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CIhzL-kSOY
“At the heart of racism is the religious assertion that God made a creative mistake when He brought some people into being” –Friedrich Otto Hertz quotes
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I don’t comprehend- was it a joke or an attempt at an insult.
I’m not racist- merely truthful.
It’s this hurtful truth Chinese in Indonesia hate as it exposes their ridiculous two-faced pleading lies to whitey -
hmm.. you’re not a racist you said..
you classified & hate people based on their skin color & appearence
ex: oh, the chinese.. typical this typical that(or as you said: “racist cultural Chauvinists”)
theno, it wasn’t a joke or an insult, i was just trying say that judging people only by their appearance is wrong.
other example is that i used to think that all javanese are kind and have good hearts, after reading your comments, i realize that i couldn’t generalize people..
please, try to open your mind, just a bit.
you cannot choose what type of race you will be.
you could choose how will you live, how you treat people.you’re being truthfull you said. the truth you’re talking about is in the past. i don’t know about those truth you’re talking about.. i wasn’t even born yet!
indonesia need to go forward, not backward.
do you love your country enough to bring it forward?
or do you want to stay behind just because of you think you’re always right?these people who’s doing corruption, they’re doing it simply because they’re a bad person, not because they’re a bad race.
you wouldn’t know if person is good or bad only by looking at their appearance(skin color, eyes) -
Please-
are you so naive as to lecture someone much older and wiser than you.
Ignorance is no excuse, nor is it justification for continued Chinese poor behaviour.For Indonesia to go forward those who were wronged in the past need to receive justice and respect and forgiveness asked of them, in the present.
“bangsa besar adalah bangsa yang menghargai jasa para pahlawannya… bangsa yang hebat mengingat sejarah bangsanya”:
“A grand nation is a nation appreciative of its’ Heroes’ Service, [sic such] a Great nation remembers its’ history.”
You should know this one off by heart: Sukarno, 1957.
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dragonwall says:
This subject suits you very much.
Look yourself in the mirror and you will see What is Racism.
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foolosophy says:
Halah, Indonesia’s racism level is still high. Although we should not wail too much. Other countries does practice racism as well, even in places that claims to be multi-cultured nation. I am an Indonesian living in Australia. In big cities such as Sydney and Melbourne, everyone is too busy to bully you. Although I have experienced several unpleasant incidents (such as being thrown with eggs or verbal abuse) in those cities, but not too often. The worst is every time I go to rural regions, people says things about your appearance, your “un-bule-ness” and laugh about your culture IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. As if we don’t understand English!
I could say something at them, but that would not make the problem dissapear. They’re just “terlalu kurang kerjaan”.
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@dragonwall: what do you mean?
“kalo tau dicubit itu sakit, ya jangan cubit orang lain” -
Achmad Sudarsono says:
Racism is not Seksi, Friend.
Here is the cure:
1. Play the Ukulele.
2. Listen to Dangdut music.
3. Drink Teh Poci and smoke the Kretek.
4. Wear the Sarung, Peci and Nongkrong with Sobat-Sobat (friends), in the calm atmosphere of the village.
5. Watch the wayang kulit with the Sobat-Sobat.
Then you will be Seksi and not racis.
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sputjam says:
There are racist everywhere. But for every racist, there are probably many more non-racist types.
Who will stand with me to fight racial bigotry. -
Shouldn’t one play the kecapi, siter or even gender pelog/slendro , instead of ukelele, Mas Son of Darsono?
Dragonwall,
all I see is a patriot unafraid to fight those who slander his nation and those who slander him with cheap slurs and epithet when cornered by logic, rather than focus on the root causes or accept personal responsibility for their community’s well-documented poor behaviour.Dragonwall- when you see your reflection- what do you see?
Yet another guilty Chinese seething with self-righteous indignation, caught red-handed burglarising, too immature to consciously surrendering personal responsibility, yet subconsciously fully acknowledges the truth and accuracy of my argument ?
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Andy says:
PN-Yet another guilty Chinese seething with self-righteous indignation, caught red-handed burglarising, too immature to consciously surrendering personal responsibility
No, our friend Purba is not racist at all is he…at least not in his interpretation.
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Andy
Racism is hate of race.I don’t hate Chinese. I have no obligation to prove that to you nor anyone else. I can calmly meet God with a clear heart.
I hate the actions of Chinese living in Indonesia.
Like a problem foster child- you have a love or very least a respect for them, yet their stubborn selfish and self-destructive behaviour in the pursuit of fleeting temporary indulgences remains hurtful, nonetheless.
But you never once surrender to the petulant immaturity of hating that child- you as the adult have the intellectual and emotional acuity, capacity and maturity to differentiate between the two.
The adult rationalises it is not the child, per se, but their myopic actions and consequences of, you dislike or even hate.
You as the adult accept, whatever the cause of such destructive behaviour, continuation is not acceptable no justified.
Out of their best interests, you seek to correct them- even if that necessitates the harshest possible reality therapy. -
Mets says:
DEFINITION Racism, by its simplest definition, is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people according to their racial groups. In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment. Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, even though anybody can be racialised, independently of their somatic differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.
Once we understand this …we ask ourselves the question ‘Am I a racist?’
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Mets-People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people according to their racial groups.
Thanks mets, this definition describes Purba 100%
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Hmmm lets see who else I have offended…without realising lol!!
APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE…….
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DXP says:
in the context of typical Indonesia,
PN said:
I hate the actions of Chinese living in Indonesia.
how about the dayak race seeing Javanese ransaking their territory via the Indonesian way of inter island colonialism called the ‘transmigrasi’ ?
The Irian seeing Javanese becoming a new VOC in every public servant top position in their land ?
The Ambonese seeing Javanese become project manager in every infrastructure project called the ‘PIMPRO’ ?
etc…
etc….Others may also hate the actions of Javanese occupying every islands greedily in Indonesia ? how to explain this ? because you are GOD ? so you are exempted from racism act ?
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concerned said
I hope you will born again as a chinese, so you will feel how is it to be a chinese in indonesia
I will bet my money, PN will be reborn again as a pig !
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@ DXP…but if you include the sentence above PN’s statement…
I don’t hate Chinese. I have no obligation to prove that to you nor anyone else. I can calmly meet God with a clear heart.
I hate the actions of Chinese living in Indonesia.Somehow, can’t get over the fact its like an oxymoron!!!
Sorry PN – might be me…just dont get what your saying ..lol
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Enigmatic says:
Achmad Sudarsono Says:
September 25th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Racism is not Seksi, Friend.Here is the cure:
1. Play the Ukulele.
2. Listen to Dangdut music.
3. Drink Teh Poci and smoke the Kretek.
4. Wear the Sarung, Peci and Nongkrong with Sobat-Sobat (friends), in the calm atmosphere of the village.
5. Watch the wayang kulit with the Sobat-Sobat.
Then you will be Seksi and not racis.
can agree with that, but please leave out the smoking part. it kills.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
DXP and Mets, PN’s comments are angry words, not anti-Chinese. His choice of words are crude but looking from our angle. Pre colonial period, Chinese, Indians and Arabs traders and many others were well received. When we fought the Dutch; Indian and Arab migrants stayed away. The Chinese, due to greed, chose to help foreigner aggressor subjugate us. The earlier Chinese settlers of inland Kalimantan fought alongside the Dayaks. The evidence were burial graves of Pris and Chinese resistance fighters scatterred in the Sambas region. The Dutch’s imported-Chinese and later arrivals were treacherous. When the Dutch agressor left, the traitors were left at the mercy of the Pris. Chinese are not a homogeneous group, but not many Pris can differentiate clannish Hokkien and Teochew from the Kheks. The same can be said for the Bules. Bules are also not a homogeneous race. Only John is the troublemaker. Not many Asian can tell Mario and Spiros from loudmouth John.
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@ AAB – I understand PN’s point I think as you aptly put was placed rather crudely…his points was misplaced by the venom in the text….hence the gentle nudge of pointing out it was an oxymoron..as suppose too calling him a pig !!!!
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thanks guys.. i see you’re all much wiser than PN 🙂
@PN :
“are you so naive as to lecture someone much older and wiser than you.”
i’m not trying to lecture you, i’m only trying to speak what i’m thinking
and it has nothing to do with age -
All humans are equal
All cultures are not.
Some are better than others. Mine is infinitely better than Chinese= chauvinism, not racism.Please- a Chinese talk of Colonialism- what about Taiwan, Hong Kong and now the Spratley Islands, and most of the South China Sea (full of lucrative gas of course) Mr Pott calling out to Mr Kettle, “Black Black”?
Now do you see the reason for ASEAN- it’s a bloc against well proven Chinese expansionism.
Formosa or Siraya was well documented to be entirely Austronesian- Ainu (genetically and culturally identical to modern day Malaysian ,Phillippines and or Indonesian) even by the Ming and later Qing Dynasty- as well as the Dutch
Yet Han CHiense over-ran it- making the former Ainu people a hated minority in their own lands.Vietnam? Champa? Siam?
And yet you still wonder why we Javanese defend our lands with our life against the historic enemy?
It would be utter stupidity not to.“No tribute to China- they bow down to us!”- Kertanegara before branding the symbol of a common thief into the forehead of Chinese envoys daring ask tribute from his betters- to be sent home deliberately as the greatest insult to puffed-up paper tiger Chinese demands.
Javanese are the only Asians aside from the Japanese to ever defeat the Mongols in battle- chasing them back all the way to China.
Only Japan whipped the Chinese back into their place as well as us Javanese.Read your history books DXP and comprehend why our vigilance against the historic enemy will never fade.
Chinese words are facile, as empty as their promises and as untrustworthy as their contracts- verbal or legal.“We Singaporeans promise not to steal any more sand. You can trust us”
“We Singaporeans apologise for accidentally stealing sand. Won’t happen again- you can trust us- we’re almost British- just ask us.”
“Sorry guys, our mistake. We promise never ever to steal sand again. You can trust us- a Raffles’ man never lies.”
“Sob! Mummy Britain- the nasty Muddy almost sank our research and dredging ships! They pointed their guns at us and didn’t yell BANG! like we do..Sob! They actually shot AT us! oh halcyon days, how I miss thee… boo-hoo-hoo..”“We Singaporeans promise to show Indonesian authorities all of banking details as requierd by our co-signatory treaties and International Law”
“We Singaporeans promise to give back all stolen money to Indonesian authorities just as we promised earlier”
“We Singaporeans promise to give back all stolen money to Indonesian authorities just as we promised earlier. Just let us send some pocket money to Swiss first.”
If you elect not respect us- then your contempt necessitates teaching you lessons yang agak kasar so you will not so quickly forget.
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So you are a concerned Chinese!
kalo tau dicubit itu sakit, ya jangan cubit orang lain”
I am referring to PN. So are you still concerned?
Dragonwall,
all I see is a patriot unafraid to fight those who slander his nation and those who slander him with cheap slurs and epithet when cornered by logic, rather than focus on the root causes or accept personal responsibility for their community’s well-documented poor behaviour.You will never be the man….And you can bring that to the bank. If anyone were to analyze deeply into those of his comments then it shows aptly and directly that this guy is not only a Chinese hater but a racist of the oxymoronic type. If his Shanghainese friends knew about what he wrote then he might not even have a pig as a friend.
Dragonwall- when you see your reflection- what do you see?
Yes I see myself everyday in the mirror all dressed up as a prominent lawyer fighting the cause of Chinese being bullied and discriminated.
I hate the actions of Chinese living in Indonesia.
I failed to see your logic. Are you saying that you hate their action because they are rich and that you are jealous? I suppose. Otherwise how could there be someone who dislike their action. Or because they did not contribute to you welfare so to say.
I will bet my money, PN will be reborn again as a pig !
I disagree, more like being born a Chinese and get the feeling of tasting pork.
PN’s comments are angry words, not anti-Chinese. His choice of words are crude but looking from our angle.
I looks more like a sh*t Chinese hater.
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Patung…
If this is true
I generally don’t like accusations of “racist” and “racism” being thrown around, they are substitutes for thought and argument, or they attempt to stop thought and argument, but I don’t think I’m alone in getting weary at some people constantly carping about Chinese or Anglos, or whoever…
Then why tolerate it on your site?
If it makes you weary, are you then tolerating it as some kind of free speech?
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Look, most human beings are racist. They may not set out to be but as we are pack animals and tribal beasts it is bound to happen. It is then up to those is charge to keep it under control.
Being in denial and raising past conflicts won’t work, just get over it, and work through it. If anyone comes on this thread and admits to being a racist, I will be proud of them. Those who refuse to admit it when they obviously are I will condemn. To first solve a problem you must admit that it is there. Surely when talking on a thread concerning racism we should try to find solutions to the problem. One way may be to introduce cross cultural training in Indonesian secondary schools perhaps. Teach love for all those bule and chinese. Could be a winner if someone gave it a go.
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@Purba Negoro
What do you mean by “chinese owned”? I smell racism.
Do you mean the owner is RRC resident?
Or do you mean the owner is Indonesian that has small eyes and light colored skin?
If you don’t like indosiar, you could always change to other channel..
I hope you will born again as a chinese, so you will feel how is it to be a chinese in indonesia.