What Islam is and why people love it.
In the discussion on Alfarini Eridani Agnes says, likely as a self-defensive reflex against the "cloud" which Islam may have been put under by the polygamy issue, always a difficult issue for Muslim women to deal with:
I LOVE ISLAM!!!!!
Loving a religion? A certain type of Christian might say "I love God" or "I love Jesus" but "I love Christianity" is a far less commonly heard thing. Google says:
Results 1 - 10 of about 775 for "I love Christianity".
While for the other:
Results 1 - 10 of about 19,000 for "I love Islam".
Note these results are in English, which is the language of Christianity for many but not of Islam, for most.
Understanding why the expression "I love Islam" exists can tell us much about the nature of Islam and may enable us to understand a lot of what is happening in our world today, from the rise of Islamic militancy and terrorism, to cartoon rage, to the increasing tendency of Muslims to mark themselves off from others by the way of their dress, among many other things.
First we need to know what is the thing that is loved. It is evidently not God, or else Agnes would have likely said so. What is loved, which means what Islam is, is a way of living, a lifestyle, an identity, a history, a tradition, a sense of belonging to a worldwide community, a community which is highly fractured and prone to bitter internal conflicts, yes, but one which nevertheless deeply yearns for the unity of the "ummah".
Those who criticise Islam would do well to note this. Quoting evil sounding verses from the Quran is a largely useless effort, since it does not address what draws people to Islam, or keeps them attached to it, it does not deal directly with Islam's strengths, which are many.
The problem we are faced with today, or that Muslims are faced with, is that their way of life, which is one way of saying their religion, and then, logically, even themselves, is under enormous pressure. Cultures and peoples do not survive for ever, weaker ones are annilihated by the stronger, and while this has happened since the beginning of history it is today that the process of destruction of traditional cultures goes on at a frenetic pace, due to new technologies and what people usually call globalization.
The future is in Los Angeles, and Shanghai, it is not in any Islamic "capital". The traditional way of life, which is to say, again, the religion, of hundreds of millions of Muslims will unlikely survive the great upheaval of modern times, the sorting out of winners and losers, the grim battle for economic survival. Not long from now, if it isn't happening already, children in the middle east will briefly turn away from the video game they are playing to cast a disdainful eye on the photos of their peculiarly dressed grandparents. Islamic terrorism, the Taliban, the tendency of Muslims to accentuate the differences between themselves and others, are all different kinds of reactions against this destruction, desperate protests, desperate attempts to survive.
Which brings us back to loving Islam. Love can be displayed in many different ways and it can be at its most intense when we fear that the object of our affection will leave us or be taken away, and the biggest, most powerful stars burn brightest when they are dying.
For sure all present religions will disappear just like ancient ones. It is just a matter of time. Everything is evolving, changing and will disapear. In Indonesia it highly depends on how fast the country will modernize, education will increase, economy will improve.
I am pretty sure in 100 hundred year less than 5% of the Indonesian people will be practising Muslims (how many are real practicant Muslim now? 50, 60%?). Just like in Europe with Catholicism. Indonesian people are already in the process. They are standing between traditionalism and modernism. Every new generation is a little bit more modern. Globalisation has good sides. Each generation believe a little bit less in ghosts and more in science. That’s a good thing I think.
I belive Islam will survive, but not if it doesn’t change and accomodate 2000 years of development. If it doesn’t change – it will obviously collapse. Any religion would if it should reject thousands of years of new knowledge and human development. II do not see any harm in Islam – but only those people that use Islam as a reason to use violence against others. I agree completley, though, on the general underlying thoughts in this argument. Not least is this “Love for Islam” a desperate, last act, for many men that see their powers over women go away. It is fearful and frightening. Love for Islam must always be a Love that is not more important than the love for human beings.
Its easy to love the world, a religion, a star, a painting or even a music composition. Its easy to love a sports team to be a fanatic loving fan, its easy to love a god a distant prophet or a man sent form heaven to take all the sins upon himself, all that is easy – why? – because its undemanding, without real sacrifice, wihout reciprocal feelings – you can forever live in a dream about the perfect person, god or star – anyone who challenge that picture is an enemy.
All this love is of cause good, even though this love is easy, it is good.
True love that is demanding, that is real sacrifice, that is pain and joy, is always and foremost to a single person that is close to you. It’s so easy to think of the love to your wife, your child, your frind, your neighbors child or your parents as take for granted. The easy undemanding love is out there somewhere, call it whatever you want.
The real challenge to every single person is to “act” lovingly to a single person closeby evey single day, to sacrifice your own prefeerences to love even though you don’t agree, to show and act as you love, every day.
It’s so easy to hate, its so easy to love the distant, but not before we start right where we are – love can actually be meaningful.
Brilliant comment Magy! Well said!
From Google “I Hate Christianity” resulted in
Results 1 – 10 of about 1,470,000 for i hate Christianity
While “I Hate Islam”, resulted’
Results 1 – 10 of about 1,460,000 for i hate Islam
It seems “Hate” is stronger than “Love”…..
Life is short, and we don’t know when our time come, give the peace to this world.
Agree, life is just too short and precious to be wasted for something like war between religions.
Not only in Islam you will find zealotism, but also at the “other side”. And the marks of these are among other things: hate, self-righteousness etc.
Everybody can potentially change to a zealot by a sudden terrible ongoing, which confuses our inner life and its balance. Or by a brain wash.
And the result of this zealotism are the peculiar interpretations of their religion teachings, which can cause misunderstandings in their own group and surely at the “enemy” side.
For the ISLAM follower or Moslem whatever happen to them will be wonderful this is the reason why Islam has been becoming the fastest growing religion even the Islam do not have a strong financial institution as the Christianity has:
1) If they are poor people, the trial of their deed in the final judgment day will be much faster than the rich Moslem so the poor Moslem can go to heaven 500 years faster than the rich Moslem (according to Hadis). This could be one of the reasons why so many of the Moslem live in the poverty line but they are still happy because that kind of hope.
2) If they are a rich Moslem, they can just enjoy their fortune. And at least finally they will go to heaven even not as fast as the poor.
3) If they are died in the war against the Khuffar, they will be rewarded with the TOP CLASS HEAVEN without the final trial.(Why so many the Moslem man especiallly the dirty Moslem like me want to died this way to avoid the final trial)
4) If they are survived in the war, their sin will be deducted and eligible the huge reward while still enjoy their live.
This is the reason why the Moslem could not be conquered even with the first class army and weaponry. What the khuffar can do to Moslem just kill and torture their physic.
However, the spirit of the Moslem to fight back the khuffar will never be fade out whatever the kafir do.
5) If they are sick, their sin will be forgiven by GOD.
6) If they are healthy just enjoy it.
7) If their business losses, it will be exchange by God a huge reward on the live after died.
8) If their business making god fortune just enjoy it.
9) If a bad thing happen to Moslem, like got accident, lost property and family died will be replaced by GOD with a HUGE reward in the live after died.
10) If a good think happen just enjoy it
Like what I did in this writing I do not care whether it will be deleted or not because I am Moslem even not a god Moslem he he he he he
In addition, the Islam dogma has stronger logical sense compare with other religion, of course this is still debatable but you can check who convert from Islam to Christianity and vice versa. Or you want to try me on a TOPIC to test this claim.
In addition, the Islam dogma has stronger logical sense compare with other religion,
How can you make such a statement after spouting so much utter nonsense? Where is your support of these ridiculous fantasies from Al Quran? This is the reason that Mainstream Muslims have no resonsibility for their own actions, because Hadith says that basically whatever they do apart from holding others up besides Allah, they will be forgiven.
Unfortunately what they don’t realise is that by living by these ridiculous corruptions of Allahs teachings, they are doing just that, they are taking the Hadith to be a source of religious law, when they should be following what Allah has given us.
They commit a gross sin, then say, “We found our parents doing this, and God has commanded us to do it.” Say, “God never advocates sin. Are you saying about God what you do not know?” 7:28
So woe to those who write scripture with their own hands then say: “This is from God” to accept with it a small gain. So woe to them from what their hands wrote, and woe to them from what they reaped. 2:79
Among the people, there are those who accept distracting sayings, to divert from the path of God without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution. 31:6
They will also say, “Our Lord, we have obeyed our masters and leaders, but they led us astray. 33:67
When they are told, “Follow these revelations of God,” they say, “No, we follow only what we found our parents doing.” What if the devil is leading them to the agony of the inferno? 31:21
Islam should not be a religion of restrictions and intolerance, of hatred and evil.
There is no step by step instructions of how to lead every moment of every day of your lives it is just a guide to help people live better lives.
There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clear from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing. 2:256
And that those who have been given knowledge may know that it is the truth from thy Lord, so that they may believe therein and their hearts may submit humbly unto Him. Lo! God verily is guiding those who believe unto a right path. 22:54
Christians are taught to have a personal relationship with God – made possible by Jesus Christ. It was never a relationship with an idea – albeit a book, set of rules or religion. Hence the uncommonity of “I love Christianity” expression.
What Cukurungan has said, proved what Sigmund Freud said long long ago. World is full of tragedy, disaster, and all the bad things. But religion overcomes it with a fantasy, an illusion of what they will get after all those tears. Just like neurosis. Malinowsky said it’s to overcome fear. Geertz said it’s about feeling, mood, and motivation. Marx said it’s an opium.
But we still need it as a one of moral guidances though. No religion teach us to harm other people. Even Satanism. Why do we fight for religion? For what? Very not important.
Anak kribo say:
No religion teach us to harm other people. Even Satanism. Why do we fight for religion? For what? Very not important.
Don’t be so naive, almost in all religion teaching can be found God order to kill, fight and harm other people with proper justification.
But there’s only very few war for religion even Israel & palestine war is not for religion but for land.
I dont understand why Muslims can easily provoke to hate other religion and people, specially Christian and Jews.
Can you see that our jails full of Muslims and also other religions.
It is not about religion men, it’s about your nasty attitude towards wrong concept of religion.
Peace men, make love more.
True, I would prefer a satanist doing good in the name of satan then (insert religion here) doing evil in the name of (insert name of whatever they worship here).
Mohammed Khafi Says:
There is no step by step instructions of how to lead every moment of every day of your lives it is just a guide to help people live better lives.
My understanding is not like yours. There’s step by step example from phrophet and sahabah how to live as a good Moslem. Anyway I will not discuss with you in this issue anymore. I am fully believe that the hadist soheh & al qur’an are integrated Islamic teaching and no need to be confronted each other.
The logical behind my argument, God was giving mankind the books guidance (al qur’an) how to live as God wish and how to implement it (hadist) in the real live.
These are the styles of Indonesian discussions every where, but there are no results. Can you all that listed above go out of Indonesian and make discussion with the other religions and not only discuss in your “kandang”. Sometime the Indonesian only can view from their culprit views because it was happened in Indonesia. Go out man from Indonesia, and make Indonesia happy with your actions, not with your speeches. Do the good think before the bad think come to you, make every human being happy with your actions not screw up by you speech.
Long life humanitarian, go to hell blaming concept.
thanks for that brilliant advice. I have done it and look there: I meat and meet the same kind of people outside of Indonesia too.
Both parts have their reason: the Indonesian in Indonesia undergo the problems everyday so that they don’t have enough distance to eye these things with more objektivity.
And those, who don’t live in Indonesia and just read or hear about the happenings, they will build their opinion according to the informations they get.
That is a job for such open minded people like you to help Indonesian to understand each other better, isn’t it? And I’m sure you have done this good and noble work and that you do not just talk.
If you cannot see the purity of Allah’s word, compared with the nonsense and evil of the manmade fabrication of Hadith I feel sorry for you.
Allah says that His Al Quran is complete perfect and fully detailed. He says in what stories after this will they believe?
Of course you will not discuss this issue with me anymore because your manmade teachings cannot compare with what Allah has written in Al Quran, and will always be overcome by them. You can hide your head in the sand all you like.
I think the greatest proof that Allah’s word is all that is needed, is to go through these comments, you appear to be a supporter of blind, unquestioned, compulsory enforcement of religion, religious practices and culture of the middle ages given to the Arabs.
I am a supporter of questioning, reasoned, intelligent discussion, tolerance of other faiths, human and civil rights and freedom to choose.
It is your choice to have that freedom, although you would not give that luxury to others.
Your chosen name on this forum gives a clear indication of the sort of person you are. I hope you are proud of it.
Dear brother Khafi,
Sorry, I mean I don’t want to discuss our different understanding about our Islamic belief in this open forums. Because, it will involved live time debating like suni vs shiah with end up no conclosion. However , If you want to continue to discuss in the matters you can send your views to my email firstname.lastname@example.org
man with full of sins
There’s nothing to be proud of about number of hits on the internet.
Besides, true Christians aren’t in love with an entity called religion. They’re in love with the Jesus Christ, the Person in the center of the Christianity.
That’s probably why if you google “I love Jesus”, you’ll find 552,000 results. Interestingly, if the term “I love Satan” generates 15,000, and “I love sex” 255,000 results, “I love porn” 53,000.
But then again, nothing to be proud of about number of hits on the internet. And if I were true Christian I’d worry more about how my life could glorify Him more than about this trivial matter.
Cukurungan, if you claim yourself to be full of sin, then who should we listen to? MK or you? If you also defend your own understanding of Islam, then, does that mean that your followers will commit sins too? If you defend Islam in a positive way, then what sort of sins do you claim you are full of?
Ihaknt, let’s listen to both and take the (postive) best from their comments.
Btw: satan and her/his followers do “sinful” things, but they don not claim to be sinners. So I think RNg is (almost) surely not from the satan/sinner fraction. Maybe he just try to be an ironist?
Salam, RNg, salam M. Khafi, salam Ihaknt, salam all of you from Europe. I love all of you.
Being a sinner is not really the issue here, who after all is without any sin? Hiding your sinful actions behind religion or even worse using religion to justify your sins is much worse.
Toma, you’re in such a good mood…you said you loved me twice already.
I agree with you, I will read from both and put my self-filtering system on!
MK, you’re right, who is without a sin. I ate bacon this morning , but it was very yummy, but at least i admit I like bacon and not being a munafik.
Thus I really hate people who always defended their actions in the name of religion. Whatever religion they are using, whay I am seeing at the moment is that in Indonesia and other places, but I care about Indonesia, is that people are using religion as a selling tools.
I have seen people “jumping” religions to further their career, to write books, and used their “new beliefs” as a marketing tool.
Don’t justify your “bacon eating” habit as not being munafik. Hahaha, but I agree with you bacon is yummy……
Very sad huh, when you see two Moslem brothers fighting over who’s right or wrong. I got to admit though Cukurungan makes very smart moves. Should discuss this matter separately via email, don’t show Islam is weak. Your enemies are now laughing out loud towards you.
Kapuyuak, you make very good point. “Action” yeah I’d like that word. Let’s get down to business.
Toma, OMG! Your’e full on today.
And Ihaknt, you are a very honest person. Anything makes you happy dear. So please continue eating bacon until you become one of them. Hahaha, just joking.
I don’t see anybody fighting here, we are debating different viewpoints.
Why should debate be hidden from public view, everybody has a right to make their own choices and the more informed they are the better those choices should eventually be.
I don’t consider this as showing that Islam is weak, to me it is strengthening the faith. Weakness comes from blind faith and following that of which you have no knowledge, strength comes from reasoned and intelligent discussion and increasing knowledge. God has given us intelligence and intellect, lets just use them!
Huh? Who’s fighting?
Arab Com, anything makes me happy? not really…i was just hungry.
MK, yes, go intelligence!!!!
Hello guys, better increase your SQ rather than your IQ, the world is full with intelligent people but low morale.
Indeed, I have observed how people can become selfrighteous and contemptuous of their peers when they think they know god better than others.
May I can suggest that we learn to love each other and accept the difference between us, we are all unique creation of God with our own freedom to think and will…not a uniform robots. Love you guys, God bless you and enlighten your mind in His plan.
I don’t know how many people will know what SQ is, so here is an explanation:
SQ is what we use to develop our longing and capacity for meaning, vision and value. It allows us to dream and to strive. It underlies the things we believe in and the role our beliefs and values play in the actions that we take and the shape we give to our lives.