Depravity, Decadence & Punishment

Nov 29th, 2009, in News, by

Tifatul SembiringPunishment for sin, a minister blames disasters on depravity & corruption of Indonesians.

Minister for Communications & Information Tifatul Sembiring speaking in Padang, West Sumatra on 27th November to the victims of the recent earthquake in the province which killed 1,000 odd people said that all the natural disasters Indonesia had suffered in recent years were partly caused by moral depravity and decadence.

Giving a sermon to mark Idul Adha day Tifatul, who is a leader of the Partai Keadilan Sejahtera/Prosperous Justice Party (PKS) said the string of disasters and earthquakes at Garut, Tasikmalaya, Cianjur and West Sumatra, were due to people sinning willy nilly, without obeying God's commandments, and no longer fearing Him.

As proof of the general immorality of Indonesians these days he said there were at least 500 porn videos in compact disc format on the market that were produced by Indonesians, and 70% of them 'starred' students. Immoral television programmes were also to blame, he said.

Apart from pornography, other signs of the immorality of the people were seen in the ease with which the courts were corrupted, and the existence of the profession of "case broker" (Markus) in the legal system.

In addition to earthly punishments such as earthquakes and floods, a terrible vengeance lay in wait for such corrupt and immoral people on Judgement Day, said the minister, when their mouths would be covered and their hands and legs would involuntarily tell of what they had done on earth. antara

Meanwhile, on the issue of pornography, he further said that within six months new government regulations would be issued based on the anti-pornography law, which would see internet access to porn sites blocked vivanews

Once the laws are ready all porn sites will be closed off.

He did not say whether this was likely to reduce the incidence of earthquakes in Indonesia.


73 Comments on “Depravity, Decadence & Punishment”

  1. avatar Chris says:

    The Minister needs to get a clue, particularly about Geophysics.

    Related News – Sharia Supporters Rally Against Brothels, Condoms
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/29/2756705.htm

  2. avatar diego says:

    This is great.

    I hope the television channels in indonesia retransmit his sermon in the news, highlighting the part where he insinuated the people Padang and Aceh as “immorals”.

    Perfect.

  3. avatar diego says:

    Thanks RighteousDude,

    One banner read: “Prostitutes, drug users and homosexuals are the agents of immorality.”

    What did I do?

  4. avatar niceguy says:

    I hope the television channels in indonesia retransmit his sermon in the news, highlighting the part where he insinuated the people Padang and Aceh as “immorals”.

    as he said in another news, it was a sermon, not a ministrial decree.
    and what he said is not something new anyway.. anyone who did not sleep during their religion class in high school should already know that. so I dont think there will be people storming churches to run away from Islam. Sorry to burst your bubble.

  5. avatar Oigal says:

    so I dont think there will be people storming churches to run away from Islam

    Bizarre!! Sorry niceguy (??) Its not a conspiracy theory Islam vs Christian as they are as bad as one another in this regard.

    It’s the repugnant and mindless logic (if logic can even be used for these people) that people like this use.

    For anyone to suggest that their God crushes little children under tons of rock because their Dad or Mom have been naughty is the height of insensitivity and arrogance not to mention a scientific illiteracy that defies reason.

    If that is the act of “His” God then perhaps its time to reconsider the options. As for me if thats his GOD he can keep the vengeful, vicious nasty old bugger.

  6. avatar Bananarama says:

    Rubbish..
    We all know Padang is a vulnerable place due to its proximity to the seismic line (or whatever you call it).

    Earthquakes in Indonesia is nothing new, it happens time to time.

    If what he says is true, then Thailand would be a less sinful place (as they have no earthquake).
    Perhaps those Buddhist population are less sinner than the Muslim population in Indonesia?

    Utterly rubbish..
    This kind of backward thinking official is ruining the country.

  7. avatar kingwilly says:

    This just goes to show the problems with Religion, natural disasters are just that, natural. A rubbish kind of thinking which leads to a blame game, and they deserved it mentality. 🙁

  8. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Oigsie, Oigsie,

    More of that self-righteous moral outrage. It’s the intellectual equivalent of using the bottom bir bintang bottles for eye glasses when you need a prescription lens.

    You’re always raving about concern for the downtrodden and weak (you’d think a once or twice mention would do).

    How about understanding problems rather than slapping on crude labels and judgements ?

    Rather than getting hot and bothered about idiot comments on earthquakes, you could make fun of them or maybe try to understand why guys like Sembiring spout such crap.

    – Does he believe it ?
    – Is he pitching to the gallery ?
    – Is it holding back policy solutions ?
    – Is it influential in shaping public beliefs ?

    As for insensitive – alot of disaster victims themselves believed the same thing as Sembiring. Are they, picking up their lives from the rubble, insensitive to themselves ?

    I’m not saying Sembiring doesn’t deserve to be judged. Not saying that you’re not, frothing on some golf course somewhere (nice caddies Oigal?), allowed your little rants. And no, I’m not sympathising with Mr. Tifatul.

    If you want to do something about a problem, you have to understand it first. I’ll leave you to that caddy.

  9. avatar Oigal says:

    Ssshh Assmad, We know you are a supporter of this kind of outlook and person, haven’t the time to indulge your support of crocs today and your disregard for others.

    And do try some new insults..yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn. Although its highly amusing watching someone such as you complaining about anyone and depth of understanding.

    Now quick report back to your sponsoring crocs like a good little lap dog.

  10. avatar Oigal says:

    BTW..If you actually read the post rather than leaping to defend the perceived slight against one of your golden ones, you would realise it was more of a slash at religious fundys of all types). I guess the pav dog response kicks in and there is nothing you can do about it hey?

  11. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    U missed the point. But case in point: Sembiring’s not part of the New Order/ Jakarta elite, so not really a croc. If the PKS had been more corrupt and played the game, they might’ve done better in the election. That’s the problem with beer bottle bottoms as eyewear: you miss the point.

  12. avatar niceguy says:

    Thailand does not get the earth quakes because they are hopelessly in sin.. no need to warn them because they are going to hell anyway. The people of Padang and Acheh are different people.. they are God fearing people.. may be they are just a bit off the way.. but there is still hope for them, so they get a little reminder.

    As for earthquake being the result of tectonic movement? but who decides which tectonic plates moves when? which way? and with how much power? who decides that the tectonic stress does not go off in many small stages instead of one gigantic one? who decides that you were walking under a falling wall at the exact time the earthquakes happens?

  13. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Mr. Nice Guy,

    No — the CIA and FBI made the earthquake.

  14. avatar Oigal says:

    U missed the point

    Well somebody did, the post had little to do with actual politics and the man himself and more to with religious fundies of all stripes attributing death n destruction on innocents as a consequence of sin as a logical postion to take.

    I remember a a famous christian cleric after the Port Arthur Murders saying (more or less)
    “Yes its sad they were slaughered but if they had been in church as good christians should be they would still be alive” Equally repugant but not directly relevent as such.

    As for our man, your points:
    – Does he believe it ?
    – Is he pitching to the gallery ?
    – Is it holding back policy solutions ?
    – Is it influential in shaping public beliefs

    May be ok for the local Kampung Mayor but for a Minister in the worlds third largest
    “secular democracy” hardly. It only enboldens and encourages people like NG here who……..?

  15. avatar Oigal says:

    Thailand does not get the earth quakes because they are hopelessly in sin.. no need to warn them because they are going to hell anyway.

    The people of Padang and Acheh are different people.. they are God fearing people.. may be they are just a bit off the way.. but there is still hope for them, so they get a little reminder

    Laugh the logic of the religious mind is truly a wonder to behold.

    Let me see, if I am already going to hell then no earthquakes, but if I am still a chance, just my loved ones are crushed under tonnes of rock and rubble. Seems an all powered dude could come up with a slightly better incentive plan than that.

    As for earthquake being the result of tectonic movement? but who decides which tectonic plates moves when? which way? and with how much power? who decides that the tectonic stress does not go off in many small stages instead of one gigantic one? who decides that you were walking under a falling wall at the exact time the earthquakes happens?

    Seems an awful amount of work..when one could just smite you! Perhaps the big guy needs a time and motion study consultant, the current business model sucks.

    P.S. Don’t suppose you have discussed your views on Thailand with any Thais of late huh?

  16. avatar deta says:

    I believe that even Tifatul himself didn’t fully believe in what he said. He only believed and hoped that what he said would encourage some Indonesian people to turn away from drugs and corruption (I knew you would say ‘in your dream’. Thank you). Well, at least he tried.

    I enjoyed watching the animated movie Claudy with a Chance of Meatball which gives a better explanation on how the weather disaster actually works … 😉

  17. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Oigal,

    You keep saying, ok, not ok, good, bad. them bad, me oigal good.

    More important to understand why they’re saying it, why he thinks he has an audience, and what it might mean for disaster relief support in the future.

    Instead, the familiar Oigal mantra of: them bad, me good.

    Are you good Oigal ? Are you a better human being than Tifatul Sembiring ?

  18. avatar bs says:

    Achmad,

    Please remember that the ability to believe that two opposing theories can be true simultaneously is a typical Indonesian thing. It is difficult for a Westerner to be a good and bad human being at the same time.
    Maybe we can learn something from those leaders having different opinions on different days of the week.

  19. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    bs, i will need a few more kreteks and teh pocis to process that, Mr. BS. : )

  20. avatar Oigal says:

    More important to understand why they’re saying it, why he thinks he has an audience, and what it might mean for disaster relief support in the future.

    Oh please…give me a break, as if someone like yourself could ever indulge in anything but the most shallow of conversations. What a bizarre and sad agenda you must have to try and turn this comment around in a defence of the man above.

    You keep saying, ok, not ok, good, bad. them bad, me oigal good.

    Come back if and when you ever have something to contribute above and beyond the banal insult and “gee look at me, look at me” . In the meantime trot off back to the town circle to your masters and collect your 100,000Rp and lunch.

  21. avatar Oigal says:

    BTW… In simple black and white yes it is bad when Religious fundies prey on the people and push that God will kill your kids unless you follow my chosen path of righteous behaviour (and thats not just an Islam thing). We are not far from the Oral Roberts thing of GOD said send me your money or else (funny how Gods wishes always seem to fit the agenda of the bloke doing the talking hey)

  22. avatar deta says:

    Mas Achmad Seksi

    bs, i will need a few more kreteks and teh pocis to process that,

    Drinking teh poci is good for your health while smoking kretek is bad. So you’re practicing two opposing theories simultaneously, which makes you a typical Indonesian… 😉

  23. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    @ Oigal: Alot of people in Indonesia believe in God, Oigal. I don’t know how many, or how deeply, but the ones that do would find your aetheism repugnant in the same way you find religion repugnant. As for defense: grow up, ‘mate’.

    @ Deta, I thank you. It’s true. We Javanese kretek smokers have a mystical insight into these contradictions.

  24. avatar Oigal says:

    Tsk Tsk and temper temper :-)..don’t like it when you are mis-quoted or mis-represented :-). I could refer you to whole post of hints and ideas written by some smarty pants who thinks he is superior to all..and yet

    your aetheism repugnant in the same way you find religion repugnant.

    now thats naughty if you are going to take the injured victim tone (Grow up..laugh..pot this is kettle). Yet again most intelligent people could tell the difference between finding some of the things people claiming to represent God and his intentions repugant and the religion as whole repugant.

    Alot of people in Indonesia believe in God, Oigal. I don’t know how many, or how deeply, but the ones that do

    Now I know you think you are an important little creature (A legend in your own lunchbox indeed) but seriously speaking for all believers in Indonesia now, thats a over inflated ego isn’t it? Personally I would think a vast number of believers of all faiths would be horrified that people think they have the right to attribute natural disasters and cruel indifference to their chosen deity, let alone claim to speak on his/her behalf.

  25. avatar wong cilik says:

    “Based on the Islam religious view, a disaster could be seen as

    1.Punishment for people’s sins,
    “…And never did We destroy the townships unless the people thereof were wrong-doers.” Qur’an (28:59)- ‘We’ refers to Allah. This verse refers to natural disaster.

    And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much. Qur’an (42:30)

    2. Reminder of our life,

    No disaster, unless it has been preordained and recorded in the book of records, can ever befall the earth nor your own selves. Behold, all this is easy enough for Allah. Know this so that you may not despair for the good fortune you lost, nor exult unduly because of the blessings bestowed upon you. Allah does not love the arrogant and the boastful. Qur’an, (57:22-23)

    3. God want to give higher reward by testing their faith

    We shall test your faith by means of fear and hunger and loss of wealth and lives and crops, but give good tidings to those who endured with courage, who in hardship say, “To Allah we belong and to Him shall we return.” Qur’an,( 2:155-56)

    Do men think that they will be left alone on saying ‘We believe’, and that they will not be tested? We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false. Qur’an,(29:2-3)

    God never destroys the righteous people. Allah SWT never destroys any community unjustly,

    Ask ourself, are we being punished, reminded or rewarded?

  26. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    yes, i thought that’s what u might’ve been up to. (I should be flattered, really, going back to a post of 2007).

  27. avatar Oigal says:

    Ah “Revenge is a dish best served cold” and to think we have not even got to the after dinner mints yet, rest assured we will. As for “flattered”, close but perhaps more active verb form would be closer to the truth.

  28. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Ah, Oigal,

    Your retorts are as flabby and pale as the average blue-rinse liberal backbencher’s backside. It’s like getting flayed with a wet piece of lettuce. But they’re worth retorting, every now and then, because they say so much about where you come from. As for talking about verbs and syntax, great, learn about them. Start with ‘shorter is better.’

  29. avatar diego says:

    I really enjoy this intimate talk between AS and Oigal (seriously, not lying this time). Been quite a long time I haven’t watched southpark and the likes, and this is like an oasis to me. So Patung, will there be another face-off?

  30. avatar David says:

    So Patung, will there be another face-off?

    There’s another face off every other week, if you really feel like voting there’s those little voting buttons, -5 total gets the comment hidden, +5 total gets it highlighted.

    Related News – Sharia Supporters Rally Against Brothels, Condoms
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/29/2756705.htm

    There was a time when I’d pay any attention to Hizbut Tahrir, the local papers can be forgiven for doing it as they’ve got pages to fill but don’t know why the ABC bothers reporting on such fringe dwellers….Tifatul on the other hand is a government minister from a mainstream (more or less, by local standards) party, so it’s interesting, although bearing in mind Achmad’s rather insightful comments on how we might view it and

    Please remember that the ability to believe that two opposing theories can be true simultaneously is a typical Indonesian thing.

    Well there’s paradox isn’t there, much of protestant theology for example was built on it, it can be very, very psychologically powerful. Here’s a paradox: why is it that the posts I spend a little time and effort on get widely ignored when those I whack off in 15 mins get all the love. Anyway.

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