Nadine Chandra
August 16th, 2006, in Girls, by PatungPutri Indonesia Nadine Chandra says she is ready to be questioned by police over the bikini scandal.
Nadine wore a bikini at the Miss Universe contest in America last month and was reported to the police by the womens’ wing of the Islam Defenders’ Front, the Mujahidah FPI, see Nadine Chandrawinata. However in a press conference in Jakarta on the 15th Nadine said that if called to the police station, as a good citizen, she was willing and able to give an explanation.
Nadine Chandra.
Nadine admitted that upon hearing the news of her reporting to the police she was somewhat stressed but said she couldn’t understand what she had done wrong, she was only representing Indonesia to the best of her abilities.
A representative from the Putri Indonesia organisation (YPI), Putri Kuswisnuwardhani, said the YPI would provide Nadine with a lawyer, and questioned why differences of opinion on the matter of appropriate dress should become a concern for the police.
Tags: Celebrities, FPI, Islam, Law, Miss Universe, Models, Police, Putri Indonesia, Women
76 Comments on “Nadine Chandra”
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Miss Indo 07 Says:
August 16th, 2006 at 11:47 amDont worry Nadine!!
U didnt do anything wrong! -
d-nial Says:
August 16th, 2006 at 2:26 pmIs it illegal to wear bikinis in pools or beach?
Or is it become illegal when somebody saw it, or photo of you wearing bikini in pool?
I don’t understand…. -
humblepie Says:
August 16th, 2006 at 5:54 pmNadine,
You surely did nothing wrong by representing Indonesia in Miss Universe 2006 contest. The only thing that might be wrong it’s the time and place. You did it in time and place when/where many people were still narrow-minded, hypocrytes and most of all, stupid and arrogant.
But it just proved to the world that you’re special.
Good luck…
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Mohammed Khafi Says:
August 16th, 2006 at 7:40 pmThe police would be far better upholding Law and Order, which is the prime reason for their existence, rather than getting involved in matters of religion which in any civilised society are a matter for personal choice.
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alabesabesu Says:
August 17th, 2006 at 5:46 amyou gave Indonesia a bad name. Not by performed in Miss Universe pageant, but by tried to speak English. For God’s sake, learned English honey!
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JavaSpirit Says:
August 17th, 2006 at 7:27 amSo is this counntry going the way of Malaysia where even debating religion or conversion is taboo or even criminal?
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blah blah Says:
August 17th, 2006 at 12:10 pmif a three-year-old girl is wearing a bikini, is she gonna b reported to the police?
hmmmmmmm…just a thought
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August 17th, 2006 at 12:19 pmnadine had done her best at the Ms. Univ. peagent.
she was in the 2nd place for Ms. congeniality and for national costume.That’s pretty gut considering rep. from Indo had never been in top 3 of any kind at the MU peagent before.
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Rick Says:
August 17th, 2006 at 2:23 pmHmm, if they report her to the police, they should report every women on the beaches of Bali to the police too!
It is so childish.
Rick.
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August 17th, 2006 at 5:21 pmalabesabesu…
do u speak english better than her? -
Fanglong Says:
August 17th, 2006 at 5:27 pmAren’t there serious matters to deal with ?
Each time a man or a woman sees him or herself in the bathroom mirror, naked (easier for showers, etc.), has he or she got to think he or she is committing a crime ?
How stupid when the devil is logging in Acheh, for instance…
Human bodily beauty is but a pale reflexion of God’s beauty. God’s definition being up to each free individual preferences.
Always finding reasons to add suffering to anyone, blindly.
So my friends, take care, love beauty & be happy ! -
Alf Zay Says:
August 18th, 2006 at 7:45 amTo alabesabesu:
You wrote THREE (3) sentences that contain at least FIVE (5) mistakes. I bet you don’t even know you did. And you still had the guts
to criticize Nadine’s English???SHAME ON YOU!
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O. Bule Says:
August 20th, 2006 at 2:17 pmThis is a perfect example of why organized religion and the state MUST be separtated in a free society. The idea of this woman being investigated by the police for wearing a swimsuit at a beauty contest is insane, and the insanity is religiously motivated.
O. Bule
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Aloo Says:
August 21st, 2006 at 5:44 amIndonesia is doing quite well without Ms. Chandra’s nakid little booty. Its a good chance for her to get a green card and migrate to the US. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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August 21st, 2006 at 3:35 pm“doing quite well”??? Compared to what? Who are you kidding? Give me a break!
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Bradlymail Says:
August 22nd, 2006 at 3:43 pmthe Indonesian people are munafiq..feel funny to question Ms Chandra for wearing bikini during the beuty contest…come on man ! be a common sense..she gave Indonesia proud to participate this contest…that’s nothing wrong !!! what about Muslim woman wearing jilbab ‘make love’ in Lombok ? why Indo. Govt and FPI have not charge them….be a realistic and don’t be MUNAFIQ. BE STRONG NADINE…YOU DO THE RIGHT THINGS
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Philly Mcfadden Says:
August 22nd, 2006 at 8:21 pmBradymail, not all Indonesian people are munafiq, only certain “Group of People”.
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Derrick Says:
August 23rd, 2006 at 10:46 amWell, the Indonesia people should be worry more about thier nature disaster than worry about nadine case.
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August 24th, 2006 at 9:10 ami support zita zahara commented earlier a lot of Munafiq people in Indonesia…to Hassan please face the reality,open your mind and look to the world.one day if you go to middle east countries,you will see what you did not expect..you will meet all munafiq people….how many our TKW been raped by them ?
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Blessed Indonesian Says:
August 24th, 2006 at 8:03 pmBradlymail…. I agree with you that there are a lot Munafiq people in Indonesia, but not all Indonesian. I made the comment because you said in your previous comment that “the Indonesian people are munafiq”. By the way I’m not Hassan….
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August 24th, 2006 at 9:23 pmBlessed Indonesian, Bradlymail: I fully agree that NOT ALL Indonesians are
“Munafiq” (hypocrites). Hypocrites are found everywhere in this world, not just in Indonesia. But it isn’t fair to suggest all Indonesians are hypocrites.
I am sure there are still some honest people (including yourself, I hope
If you are not Hassan, why don’t you identify yourself, Blessed Indonesian?
Is there any reason for hiding your identity? -
August 25th, 2006 at 3:05 pmTo Alf Zay,grateful to Mighty God that you are not Hassan al Munafiq.Maybe my mistake to say all’Indonesian’ are munafiq…sorry for that !!!
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August 25th, 2006 at 5:46 pmHi Bradlymail,
I don’t know who Hassan al Munafiq is. Never heard that name before.
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August 25th, 2006 at 8:50 pmAlf Zay @ sooner you will know him..ah ! what a joke…?!
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Hassan Says:
August 25th, 2006 at 10:46 pmI am al munafiq now eh? well, it’s funny why you guys always stereotype people who are against pornography as ‘hypocrits’. why? do you think that ALL human beings like pornography? and the ones that don’t like porn are hypocrits? what a shallow way to think..
you know what I think? people who likes porn are called perverts, and perverts would like EVERYONE to be just like them, to make them feel better about themselves. so, people who are against porn are immidiately called hypocrits or weirdos or something like that. bottom line is perverts don’t like people saying that porn is bad.
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August 25th, 2006 at 11:17 pmHi Hassan,
I think we should clarify what falls into the categories of ‘PORNOGRAPHY’ and
“HYPOCRITES.’IMHO, wearing a bikini is NOT a pornographic act by any means.
Hypocrites are those whose words, thoughts and actions contradict one another, i.e. they don’t tally. Hypocrites tend to pretend to be what they are not.
I hope you are not one of them.
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August 28th, 2006 at 12:06 pmHello Hassan,
Since you don’t like porno… it is best you don’t get married in the future… as you are not allowed to see your future wife in porno as well…. it is against your religion…
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August 28th, 2006 at 2:50 pmHey Derrick,
Some guys may say they hate porn, but they love pretty girls, especially
sexy ones…One doesn’t have to get married to see a girl naked. Isn’t that true?
Perhaps they expect to have sex with their clothes on?
Or get married just for the sake of ‘companionship’ alone, i.e. no sex?
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August 28th, 2006 at 5:44 pmHi Alf,
Dont care whether guys married or not, I believe there is nothing wrong seeing girls naked. It is part of life cycle. Even everyone on this earth fore father during the cave ages, they are naked so is written in Bible and Quran for Adam and Eve(no offence to Muslim people), until the serpent let them know the shame of being naked.
PS : I just wonder how you have sex with clothes on and why need to get married for sake of just companionship. Frankly speaking, animals like dogs can be a much better companionship to mankind.
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August 30th, 2006 at 10:47 pmderrick: that depends on your values, isn’t it? my values (and religion) taught me not to see naked women (or half naked for that matter), women who exposes their body publicly.
why shouldn’t i get married? I only said i (and all Muslims should too) don’t like porn and public exposure of erotism, NOT I don’t like (marital) sex. but not extra marital sex, btw. off course I’m allowed to see my wife naked, but only my wife, and none other.
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September 1st, 2006 at 12:19 pmHello Hasan,
the problem here is you said ‘people who likes porn are called perverts’… So seeing your own wife is still part of the porno activities. regardless of whether you see others or your own wife, it is still see another being’s body and part of porno.And end of the day it is awful enough that you had just called your self perverts too… If you do not know the meaning of pornography, please check the dictionary. It says every woman and man… and it didnt say seeing you own wife is not part of porno. That’s the reason I claimed that you don’t like porno.
Secondly, wearing bikini is not a porno, fyi. Exposure to the abdomen is not porno either. Porno is usually refer to humans that are completely nude or topless (for women) in other words.
no wonder, communists claim religion is poison…
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Miss Indo 07 Says:
September 1st, 2006 at 2:20 pmHassan, actually it’s just very easy.
If your religion and your values taught yuo not to see naked woman or whatsoever, just dont see it.
Easy right?
If you’re not allowed to eat pork,it doesnt mean that every pork seller should close their business right?
It’s just sooo easy, that’s why I’m so confused why these people should make fuss over something like this? -
September 1st, 2006 at 2:35 pmPornography = Perversion?
If we consider pornography to be anything sexually explicit, how do we teach our doctors and nurses? Or is this to be considered differently? If pornography is used to help a married couple who have problems of a sexual nature in their marriage, isn’t it being used in a good way? A man who is using pornography to release his frustrations by fantasy and masturbation, rather than by going out and raping innocent women, isn’t that a better solution. Pornography is neither good nor bad by definition, it is how it is portrayed or used which is good or bad.
Pornography can be visual, textual or vocal, from what I have seen on the streets, in song lyrics, videos, sex stories on the internet etc. we are a nation obsessed by pornography and sex, probably 80 percent of the households in my neigbourhood have porno vcd’s or dvd’s, 20% of my neighbours have had affairs in the last 4 years and 50 % of the weddings I have attended in the last few years have produced a baby after 7 months!
Speaking purely for myself, I would rather have friends who believe in God, and are good people than most of the two faced people I have mentioned earlier, maybe we are not all munafiq, by as God is my witness we have a terribly high percentage.
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tony montana Says:
September 11th, 2006 at 3:32 amwel..wearing a bikini and showing it to the world is not a pornography and surely no crime at all (unless you are ugly and fat, like those big fat American womens…ha..ha..ha..). For an Indonesian (although I am living in foreign country now, since I was a little snot), I felt proud hearing the news about an Indonesian taking part in the miss universe championship.
Those womens from ‘wing of Islam defender front’ (mujahidin FPI..or something like that..), they should stayed home more often to get laid by their husbands (or boyfriends…or someone..) and the police, they should spent their time cathing dangerous criminals other than bothering a citizen who try to get Indonesia famous. So my massage to Nadine: Be proud and do not worry about this foolish matter. Laterz…….. -
Archie Says:
September 13th, 2006 at 11:19 pmDont worry Nadine!!
U didnt do anything wrong
**********
Yeah right! She just lose. So what? -
terbanglah lebih tinggi Says:
September 24th, 2006 at 4:57 pmIt’s quite amazing how people easily judge you by the words that you say, the look that you wear and the things that you do (and vice versa!). Therefore, always have faith in people and learn to believe in second chances…
…because that’s what life is all about.
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Molisan Tono Says:
September 25th, 2006 at 2:49 pmFrom the very start, Nadine has seriously done something wrong.
She shouldn’t have worn that bikini in the US, she should have worn that bikini at FPI headquarters, so all those lunatic could be satisfied or at least they can unleash their inner lust toward Nadine.Those creeps should check their sex drive. They look so religious to me, but lots of crap behind them. MUNAFIK
So Nadine, bring it on girl…
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October 13th, 2006 at 1:05 amIf it’s true that Nadine has done nothing wrong, then it’s true too that Nadine has done nothing right as fas as Indonesia and Indonesians are concerned.
What drawbacks has Nadine done for Indonesia by being half naked during the Miss Universe contest? And what benefits has Nadine done for Indonesia by being half naked during the same occasion? Does it really matter for Indonesia(ns) what she has done through that contest? Are you so proud as to coming to a belief that it’s the only way for you to have pride about Indonesia? Have you ever thought of anything else to give Indonesia a good name? If not, then it’s obvious about who you are.
On the other hand, are you deeply offended by her being half naked in the contest that you think no other things are more shameful for Indonesia(ns)? If not, then I can understand what type of people you are too.Anyway, what has Nadine done will sooner or later be forgotten. She will just be one of several representatives of some groups of Indonesians who have come and go. And I believe that most of you will no longer care about Nadine or whoever before or after her later in the day. I am so sure that not more than 1% of your attention in your life will be given to Nadine and such except if you do not have a real life.
My advice is why don’t you do yourself a favor? Don’t worship her as if she were a goddess, and don’t curse her as if she were an evil.
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October 13th, 2006 at 1:35 amArchie, what we mean is Nadine did NOT violate any rules or break any laws.
“Half naked” is an exaggeration. That depends on how you view it and whether you have a dirty mind or not. Nadine was just following the rules of the contest, and I suppose you would have done the same if you had been in her shoes (but I am afraid you might never qualify for such:-) So I can understand if you secretly envy her.
Nobody says that it was the ONLY way to make Indonesia proud. Everybody has different gifts, and Nadine has tried to use her gifts of beauty to bring glory to Indonesia. She could have kept her gifts to herself, but she chose to share it with the world while she can, which is something commendable. To think it was something humiliating is simply twisted logic.
You’re right that time will change, but she has left a mark, which will in time be forgotten. That’s still better than not leaving a mark at all, though. What have YOU done in comarison? It’s easier for us to criticise others in the limelight, but is there any contribution you could be brag about?
I doubt if anybody ever worshipped her as a goddess or curse her otherwise. She’s neither, but she is a star in her own right. We should give credit to whom credit is due, without prejudice or envy.
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October 13th, 2006 at 8:31 amAbout Nadine,is a very small issue… I am very proud of this woman and love you Nadine !!!
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October 13th, 2006 at 9:25 amfolks… she is half naked in US btw… not in Indonesia… so for other Indonesia hypocrit creeps who doesn’t like to see or accidentally saw it happen. close you holy eyes and shut the hell up. be quiet!!!
wonder when we can grow up? wake up Indonesia.
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October 13th, 2006 at 10:02 amAll,
She is not half naked… she is wearing bikini/swim suit… Half naked mostly referred as topless… and she is not topless… therfor, she innocent.
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October 13th, 2006 at 11:40 amwell noted derrick, just re-phrase someone stupidity of half naked thing… that’s all.
there’s several topless nudist tourist in bali… and no body mind at all. where the hell those noisy voices?
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October 13th, 2006 at 12:05 pmDerrick @ good explanation ! to all Indonesian,we can see all these in our country,and please don’t be “munafik”
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Travis Says:
October 14th, 2006 at 9:38 amNadine did wrong to not be modestly dressed. No one needs prostitution to represent their people. But let men stop using women for sex then punishing them for what they want secretly.
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October 26th, 2006 at 4:37 amSorry, Travis, I strongly disagree. Nadine was NOT immodestly dressed when she wore a bikini at the Miss Universe Contest. If she had worn it at a wedding reception, for instance, then you could question it’s appropriateness.
Also, you were totally mistaken in your understanding or definition of the word “prostitution.” Nadine has nothing to do with such. It is most unfair and mean to use such a word in referring to her. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for falsely accusing her, and you owe her a sincere apology.
Obviously, you are ill-informed about what is involved in the Miss Universe Contest.
Until you learn more about it, you’d better keep your nasty comments to yourself, or else you’ll be making a fool of yourself. -
October 26th, 2006 at 1:09 pmAlf Zay,
Immodesty cannot be imagined away. No one looks at a person in a bikini for a non-sexual purpose. Any and every aspect of our dress we consciously (whether trying to do it consciously or subconsciously) select for a very specific effect. That one would try to affect men not married to her as Nadine and the fools putting on the whole worthless production have done, is a prostituting of one’s beauty. It is worthless men looking at the compromised form of one whose sacred dignity ought to be shielded from their horrible lust in decent apparel.
Where does your wisdom begin before ending?
I have nothing against Nadine as a person, and if I had the opportunity to serve her in some decent way, then I would count it the duty of neighborly love - but it still remains that she has foolishly fallen victim to the wish of worthless ogglers. Perhaps she is exploited in a brokenness most females suffer in this terrible world.
I once dressed a certain way as a teen, but mortified that lust for undue attention within myself, when I was 17, and have not gone back on my decision since that moment, in over 15 years. Rather than take this as an insult, let it be seen for what it is - one who sees a wrong he to some degree harbored in his own heart once, which needs rectification no less in Nadine than it did in me.
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October 27th, 2006 at 9:41 amTravis,
Nadine was wearing swimsuit based on the rules of the Miss World contest, so what’s wrong with it. In this contest, it is not only her wearing that type of swimsuit.. but all contestants. However, please dun tell me you are doing prostitution as well when you wearing a swim suit during swimming.
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Lee Says:
October 27th, 2006 at 11:22 pmWhat ever you say jack, Nadineeee I Love You!!!!!!!!
Ciayou!! -
Motz Says:
November 3rd, 2006 at 2:47 amUmm, if you think wearing bikini in miss universe contest are wrong….WHY DID YOU WATCH IT?????? Or see it in any way.
Everybody KNOW, there’s a swim suit performance by all the contestants….
If you don’t like it, just don’t watch it. It’s as simple as that. Just ignore it.
Hypocrite. If you dare to criticize this, please tell me, you never j*rk off before.
Thanks
Btw, we should fire some of those police. Really. They must have too much free time.
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November 3rd, 2006 at 4:10 amMotz, I came upon this particular page incidentally, because it contained words in it that matched a Google search I was doing. The words below the link made me wonder what sort of debate was in progress. I read the comments on the link, and since I am not in favor of immodesty, and since I was appalled at the stupid comments telling Nadine her immodesty was alright, I simply couldn’t resist stating the obvious.
And no, I never saw the contest - but the mere mention of what was debated over sickened my sense of decency. I have never gone publicly swimming since age 17. I have avoided being seen in shorts ever since, for 15 years. I am no hypocrite. I leave the room even at work if someone comes in dressed immodestly. Someone very idiotic asked if I freak out seeing myself naked. Well that is not the same as invading someone else’s sanctitiy and dignity by uncovering their nakedness with the eyes. I neither checked out Nadine’s appearance, nor ever heard of her before happing on the above comments. It really doesn’t matter who she is. The whole thing of sexual exhibitionism that I guess makes you personally masturbate, is without virtue. I am not photographed by another in the shower, nor do I get seen by others. You are pathetic. You should save your eyes for one woman alone. Is Nadine that one?
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Karlira Kanakahuko Says:
November 7th, 2006 at 1:33 pmhry guys, for ur information, English is not important in world beauty competition. Like women in Latin Americas, tehy are all cannot understands English, but why they are always won to Miss Universe, Miss Worl, etc…. English is to Islam in Indonesia while non-english languages is to non-Muslim religions in Indonesia at all.And Indonesia is tthe world. I prefer to any countries that cannot understands English at all, like Indonesia.
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November 7th, 2006 at 1:40 pmhello dude!
what message you try to convey here? Who says Indonesia is a country who cannot understands English? Did you know in Japan also less people who speaks non English?
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1ndra Says:
November 10th, 2006 at 11:06 pmAs long as the national language is not English, there’re less people who could understand English
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November 10th, 2006 at 11:48 pmHi Indra,
Sorry, I am afraid you are mistaken.
Most people from West European countries, e.g. Holland, Belgium, France etc. do understand and speak English, albeit not perfect, although English is not their primary (national) language.
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November 11th, 2006 at 7:50 amI am not agree with Indra, we must proud with our Bahasa Indonesia. While English language we can encourage then to speak or write in English in school. The education system must change to promote english language. Now I believe so many Indonesian can speak good English. I also agree with Alf Zay opinion..thanks Alf Zay.
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A different Trav Says:
November 14th, 2006 at 4:45 pmWow what a great debate for a subject here…
First of all the young lady was chosen by her peers for her beauty, and knowledge, and her intellect, (and probably her independence by many) to represent a country in a pageant of beauty. Congratulations to her for that very big step in her life. She will be surely supported by millions of people later on in life, by perhaps being on TV, or in Feature Films, or whatever type of entertainment she chooses.
In a lot of countries it is understood that women are allowed to make their own choices whether certain communities agree with it or not. It’s a great life.
Any opinion of hypocracy is pretty much in the eye of the beholder it seems. Many people will understand different ways of living by their upbringing, their religion and their personal choices.
I have friends that are not allowed to use computers, listen to radios, or watch TV because of their religion. Unfortunately they will see all these technologies as bad because their religion states it is. I see them every day, trying to do business and competing with other companies that have faxes, and printers, and computers, and cell phones, and robotic industries. I see how guilty they feel when they have a desire to give up there religion just to become part of the business landscape, and to allow their children to keep up. Each day they work hard and do without all these goodies to be in the “right”.
I work with these people every day, and I do not have the same religious beliefs, i do there dirty work, they pay me excessive amounts of money, and I keep them competing on a large scale through my computer, fax, cell phone… And they still turn around and condemn my lifestyle, and call me a sinner.
In my religion, she would be able to wear a bikini, or lingerie, jeans, or whatever she thought would be appropriate, in fact it is legal for women to be topless here, but through out my life I have seen it publicly maybe once or twice. If I wanted too I could head down to the bar, and watch a stripper while having a beer… not many guys down here care… they would rather just sit around and have a beer with or without the stripper it doesn’t matter.
When my eyes see a bikini, most of the time i could care less. But sometimes there are some real beautiful women out there that do attract attention. It’s not like pervertedness, to look…. pervertedness happens in your mind, not in your eyes. I am married, I will look at a beautiful women, my wife will point out beautiful women and i will point out guys that she might think are attractive. Am I jealous… nope. Is she jealous, nope. Sometimes you will see an attractive car, a beautiful painting, a wonderful sculpture, a tall tree etc… you will look.
People can live the lives they want, that’s cool, but don’t push your living style on others if they choose to be different… My God creates beauty, and i can look at it without an evil thought what so ever and enjoy it, like He would appreciate.
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November 14th, 2006 at 5:02 pmThat’s the way to go Trav….. It is true… we all are human beings with a gift of bigger brain and we all have choices to choose what ever we like as long as it is not harm to others…
But unfortunately there are some people who dont know how to enjoy the beauty of it just because of what they believes…. Really felt sorry for them…
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November 15th, 2006 at 10:17 amThose last two comments were most pathetic. Eyes wander where the heart does. Poor wife the other Trav has. And what ridiculous religion allows for immodesty, which is a manifestation of lust and lack of chastity?
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November 15th, 2006 at 6:30 pmThose last two comments were most pathetic. Eyes wander where the heart does. Poor wife the other Trav has. And what ridiculous religion allows for immodesty, which is a manifestation of lust and lack of chastity?
My eyes wander for many things, this is how to become brilliant, alert, studious, aware, which are all bad things?
My poor wife loves me more than any lady could ever love someone who close their eyes to the bitter reality. I am positive on this one. My GODS religion has actually givin people choices since the day of Adam and Eve, and their unfortunate decision to eat the apple… Might be the wrong decision, but he still loves them.
By the way, just to stir up some controversy…. I have an inny belly button and I am 325 pounds… Please don’t picture that in your head, could be a sin.
You seemed to wanna hide your womens bodies…. I think some of them are beautiful, but hey… you wouldn’t want anyone else to think that.
Remember you have your view of religion, and I know my religion… you can believe twisted ways that say women (who look great with a tan!) should be clothed down…. I feel sorry such beauty is hidden, and therefore looked down upon. Thats up to you guys.
My poor wife… she get treated equally around here, by me, by my friends and peers, and by my elders… And if someone were not to treat her as an equal…. she would kick the crap out of them… and if she had any problem I would back her up…. does your wife get treated equal to you? does she goto work at the factory? do you change diapers????
My wife smiles, and my loving god approves, thanks
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November 16th, 2006 at 12:39 amMy GODS religion has actually givin people choices since the day of Adam and Eve, and their unfortunate decision to eat the apple.
Hi “A different Trav”:
Please double-check your Bible or source of info:
I don’t think it says “the apple.” Rather, I believe it refers to “the forbidden fruit.”
How some people got the misconception that it was an apple in something I never
coudl comprehend.If you have any explanation to back it up, please let us all know.
Thanks!
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November 16th, 2006 at 12:53 amyou are correct about the forbidden fruit, my apologies, but I am sure most will recognize what I am saying… I see you realized and comprehended what I was aiming at, and I am sure most are on top of their toes as well. Thank you for the clarification.,
What I am mostly getting at is people are people period, and if people are comfortable that a man shall show an unclothed toe, heel, ankle, knee, women should be treated the same. I am not saying that I am right and the opposition is wrong, rather I would like to see people treat people with the same respect they want.
In fact I challenge every person with the slightest amount intelligence to go out and start treating people the way you would want to be treated. If they should walk on your toes and use your new ideal way of treating people to step on you… look at them and sternly remind them that you are treating them (yes both women and men) the way you want to be treated…
It’s a tough go but most times it brings back many rewards, and many changes of attitude.
BTW, I just love this subject, thanks
The other trav
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November 16th, 2006 at 1:07 amThanks for your prompt response. By and large, I’d whoeheartedly agree, but with some reservations.
I think it’s OK for guys to wear a swimsuit and display their bare chest, but
for the gals to show off their bare breasts without any covering would be outrageous.
This is just one of a few examples where we can’t justify ‘equal treatments’ for both sexes. -
November 16th, 2006 at 1:20 amI believe that back in the 1920’s or so it was wrong for men to bare their chest and the swimsuits were quite the piece of fashion to say the least.
Now again where I live it is legal for all to be topless, and some women fought long and hard for it. Now I really think it comes down to how comfortable people are with their chests. As previously stated I am 325 pounds, and I am uncomfortable about baring my chest…. but not afraid to admit it. I remember awhile ago seeing some national geographic magazine seeing barechested women when I was young, and thinking…. sheeeeeesh… but over in tribes where they are allowed, everyone there seems reasonably comfortable about it…
Here they fought for it, they won because they are treated equal, but I have only once or twice seen any women take advantage of it. Again it’s just where I am coming from, and I understand where you are coming from.
the other trav
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November 16th, 2006 at 2:03 amI do not look at females. I see all persons as equals, whether male or female. I believe that both sexes should be equally modestly dressed. Because we are more souls even than flesh - which only shares in the life of the soul -, we have a dignity and sanctity that is too precious to be treated like a shell. Sexuality is essence, and begins with the soul, not the body. But the body enables two people to reach one another’s souls as a sexual unity. Thus to look at women other than your wife is to make her common, and other men’s wives common too. Most females have not escaped sexual aggression from the majority of men, who are perverse bastards. Broken females do things they would never do if still inviolate. There is an inesteemable virtue created into the composite unity of the human nature, and concealing one’s nakedness from all except that one other with the same essence as oneself is a part of being in the Image and Likeness of GOD.
I am not being a jerk if I cover a female’s nakedness with my eyes by avoiding the sight of her. I am protecting her value, realizing her soul may already be worn down, and unable to adequately stand up for her own sacred potential. I have never dated, so I am not married. But if I was married, I would seek to serve my wife, and whatever she sought to bless me in, I would strive to make an even greater effort toward her happiness. There is someone I have felt some dispair about ever seeing again - yet I still consider my eyes for her alone, and my physical form to be hid for her eyes alone.
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November 16th, 2006 at 7:30 amI do not look at females. I see all persons as equals, whether male or female.
Wow, you can feed yourself this line as many times as you want…. you have to look at men and women, not for sexual purposes, but just to move around, and perhaps you may see a bare part by accident… not many will believe your first line… unless your blind.
I believe that both sexes should be equally modestly dressed. Because we are more souls even than flesh
Glad to see you kinda agree with me there, see my line about me being overweight… doesn’t mean it’s wrong for others…
we have a dignity and sanctity that is too precious to be treated like a shell
I hardly feel like a shell, and have never felt better in my whole life…. remember that dignity is a relative term.
Sexuality is essence, and begins with the soul, not the body. But the body enables two people to reach one another’s souls as a sexual unity.
Hmm great line, but it doesn’t say much. Sexuality is needed to sustain population as well… loosen up on what you think you should talk like…
Thus to look at women other than your wife is to make her common, and other men’s wives common too.
First of all since I have “seen” other women, this has degraded my wife? Hardly, She was what I wanted, and I happen to be what she wanted… Man if you shared that view to many people I think perhaps i they would tell ya to get real… or if you were in a bar sharing that line… it wouldn’t be pleasant around here.
Most females have not escaped sexual aggression from the majority of men, who are perverse bastards.
Wow they have here, and they have equal rights!!! The most Perverse bastards I have ever seen on the news, are typically of the type who would take advantage of there power and push women into the role they need for there security…. See it all the time…. nothing to do with most men around here, but you are opening up my eyes… Most perverse bastards around here will never show there faces in public again around here, let alone expect to be with a woman
Broken females do things they would never do if still inviolate. There is an inesteemable virtue created into the composite unity of the human nature, and concealing one’s nakedness from all except that one other with the same essence as oneself is a part of being in the Image and Likeness of GOD.
Pardon me, the first line is utter nonsense… she wore a bikini, and this has poisoned her?
Again not many people have met God while on earth, would he cover up the mountains because they are beautiful. Again an “image of God” is reallllllly ones mental image portrayed as God. This is getting way out of topic to argue about a bikini…. ok, I agree, that my image of God does have nothing to do with him wearing anything silly. Every good religious person strives to live in Gods ways. I don’t think god minds that she wore that bikini, and he is probably proud of her.
I am not being a jerk if I cover a female’s nakedness with my eyes by avoiding the sight of her. I am protecting her value, realizing her soul may already be worn down, and unable to adequately stand up for her own sacred potential.
Gimme a break, how does not looking at her, give her any value, if she has her own mind she wouldn’t give a crap if you looked at her… what you see… it’s your value, not hers. Her soul has nothing to do with her being physically attractive, trust me, it’s not that easy. read your last line in that quote…. man… you are so full of yourself its ridiculous…. Again, I have seen many women many different ways and I knew my wife and i were going to be together…. it’s love, period. She can wear what she likes…
I AM GOING TO INTERUPT THIS NONSENSE FOR A MINUTE AND RELAY A STORIE I HEARD WHEN I WAS FIVE
aN UGLY OLD MAN WITH A HEART OF GOLD HAD FINALLY HAD A CHANCE TO MARRY A WOMEN, SHE WAS NOT OVERLY ATTRACTIVE, BUT SHE WOULD DO HER BEST FOR HER MAN. oNE DAY THE OLD MAN GAVE HER A NECKLACE WHICH WAS MAGICAL AND HAD A VERY STRANGE POWER… tHE OLD MAN COULD MAGICALLY HAVE HIS NEW WIFE BE THE MOST ATTRACTIVE PERSON IN THE WORLD… BUT THERE WAS A CATCH, HE HAD TO DECIDE IF SHE WOULD BE BEAUTIFUL WHEN SHE WAS AT HOME 12 HOURS A DAY, OR OUT IN THE PUBLIC 12 HRS…
HE STRUGGLED WITH THE DECISION FOR A LONG TIME, SHOULD I HAVE AN ATTRACTIVE WIFE AT HOME, OR AN ATTRACTIVE WIFE IN THE PUBLICS EYE WHERE SHE WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH BETTER LOOKS…. AFTER MANY DAYS OF STRUGGLING WITH WHAT TO DO… iT CAME TO HIM… SHE SHOULD DO WHAT SHE IS HAPPY WITH…. ONCE HE DECIDED TO GIVE HER THE DECISION SHE BECAME BEAUTIFUL 24 HRS. A DAY…
End of Story
I have never dated, so I am not married. But if I was married, I would seek to serve my wife, and whatever she sought to bless me in, I would strive to make an even greater effort toward her happiness.
OOOOOOOh boy, I got suckered into wasting good breath on you child… never been married, never dated… Dude, man, you have spoken with out experience and has invalidated the whole long talk darn it…
You can preach what you wamt but MMMANNNNN you know not what you say… lord, bring the other guys back in here, I was having a blast…. And dude, you will find one specialwomen… she would be real special to put up with your POV… If you do marry, PPPLLLLLEEEAAAASSSSSEEEE don’t spawn.
There is someone I have felt some dispair about ever seeing again - yet I still consider my eyes for her alone, and my physical form to be hid for her eyes alone.
Ok dude, I am still snickering to hard to breathe… Please if you have any valid points what so ever… share them here.
Travis I am the other trav, and now you are giving me a bad reputation, go have fun.
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November 16th, 2006 at 8:30 amAlf Zay: Thanks for your opinion, in countries where English play important role, people might be forced (In their own need) to study English. Guess, you dont know English, you’re lost everywhere
Here, at Indonesia, English is not that important for majority people communication, because, as you can see, Indonesia could be called a “continent” and much countries inside.
There’re many different culture and native languages, dont even try bothering speak English while Indonesian language is not our primary. eg : I use Java ngoko first, Indonesia, Java kromo then English, I study English mostly for internet communication.
In your country it might be (1. Your native language, 2. English (Continent/whole language, 3. Other language and 4. Other language).
Thankfully most your people place English in secondary language, so you could talk better. Mine, is fourth, what a day…
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Bradlymail: Yeah, English language must be promoted as this language is a whole world language, but you know where the matters are, it’s hard to study at least 3 languages in the same time and mostly people study when they really need it. Guess what, you’ve studied at past and never use it, when it’s time you really need it, you’ve forget.
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November 16th, 2006 at 9:18 amThe other Trav doesn’t make a distinction between people and inanimate objects. Everyone knows sexuality is a matter unlike any other.
As for not looking at females, I mean that I do not check them out. I do not focus on the femininity of more than one individual. I care nothing for the charms of women who are not for me.
Again, you showed less intelligence than any other silly man I have ever come across on these matters.
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November 16th, 2006 at 9:53 amThe other Trav doesn’t make a distinction between people and inanimate objects. Everyone knows sexuality is a matter unlike any other.
True enough, I haven’t made the distinction between people and inanimate objects, my apologies. Would all those who need me to make a distinction between people and inanimate objects raise there hands. Thanks,
How can you know anything about sexuality if you don’t observe it, have tried it, and run for cover from it? I strongly believe in saving yourself for the right person, but I don’t see how you can have an opinion on sexuality if you haven’t experienced it. get me?
As for not looking at females, I mean that I do not check them out. I do not focus on the femininity of more than one individual. I care nothing for the charms of women who are not for me.
Ok, I understand that you are not looking at them in any sexual context…. and again I agree with you. And when I see a girl in a bikini, i too do not run to sexual thoughts. In fact I don’t care if they are covered or uncovered. I can resist such temptation without fear that my wife will be devalued. I am not over righteous about it, i will not look down my nose at you if you don’t wanna see that. I just think you are playing a role that you haven’t practice pretty simple.
I do not focus on the femininity of more than one individual. I care nothing for the charms of women who are not for me.
Personally, I’d say not many people do care for the charms of women who are not for us… sorta like saying the water is wet…. it’s redundant.
If you are attracted to one, and only one good for you… Now let’s say for instance she has to go away to another place, perhaps because her parents make her. You never see her again, she may have never been checking out your “masculinity” and never had interest. ALLLL bad news…. now this is all just a made up situation I am talking here… but now by what you have said, you can never look at another woman again, you can’t marry, or have children, because you are living by this decision. Am I correct?
Again, you showed less intelligence than any other silly man I have ever come across on these matters.
Yes I am rather unintelligent, and perhaps one day I will smarten up, till then I will just have to put up with my wife who I would die for, and put up with my kid who happens to be one of the best things that ever happened to me. So be it, if that is less intelligence than any other silly man on the internet, I will share my sorrows of being unintelligent, but happy, fulfilled, with my friends, perhaps checking out chicks on the beach. I dunno, I think you are smiling saying “the other trav” really has a point…
the other trav
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November 16th, 2006 at 10:37 amWow! We have 2 travis here and versus each other… Cool…
But I like to quote here is what my Great Teacher says
‘The greatest conqueror of all times is a man who able to conquer thyself”
So based on the quote, there is nothing wrong to see a woman in bikini as long as your mind do not focus on evil thoughts. So the one who is having problem is not the woman but the man who condemns her which is due to himself unable to resist his own temptation. Therefor, he put the blame on her and the sinner is he himself but not the woman.
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November 16th, 2006 at 11:09 amTravis,
I have tried to refrain from getting too involved in your heated arguments, but I can’t help disagreeing with you overly judgmental, prejudiced and holier-than-thou attitude.
While I respect your lofty aspiration to consecrate yourself for the sake of your one and only, I don’t think it would be fair to impose your own standards on those who donot subscribe to the same ideals as yours.
It is preposterous to condemn them as “showing less intelligence,” “silly” or any arrogant name-calling of the sort. Who appointed you as the judge, and on what grounds?
Like you, I am still a virgin bachelor and I don’t believe in premarital or extra-marital intercourse, either. However, I donot blindfold myself (figuratively speaking) whenever I see a nice-figured or attractive female. I donot turn to the other side and pretend not to see her. Instead, I’d tell her either by my expression or verbally that I admire her good looks, but without any implication of lust. As far as I am concerned, as long as you keep yourself from dirty thoughts, you donot entertain lust in your mind.
Admiring the lovely features of a female (or females) does not necessarily mean you’re being lustful. Rather, I admire and respect their beauty. It’s like we admire
a creative architectural design, work of art, etc. but even more so if the beautiful female has attractive personality to boot. If you admire a gorgeous Jaguar or Lexus, for instance, it doesn’t necessarily mean you wish you owned it. Even if I
admire the sporty lines of a Porsche Carrera, I never fancy myself driving it even if I could afford one. By the same token, if I admire the beauty of a female friend or
a friend’s wife, I donot think of seducing her to sleep with me!So, Travis, it’s up to you if you are determined to maintain your celibacy in such a strict manner - more power to you - but please try to respect and understand people who hold different outlook. And refrain from insulting them by saying they were inferior in intelligence or morals. More likely than not, that is simply not true.
I gather that Nadine, as well as most if not all the other Miss Universe contestants, are respectable young ladies of responsible moral standing. The fact that they wear bikinis does not make them cheap, immoral or despicable as you might think. Quite to the contrary, they are to be commended for their zeal to strive for higher ideals, just as male body builders pose in international body building contests. You would not say Arnold Schwarzenneger did a shameful act when he participated in body building contests, would you?
Just FYI, some of my Indonesian lady friends have told me that they take pride in their beautiful physique - and rightly so - as they maintain their bodies well by
regular exercise and a healthy diet. We should encourage them instead of criticising and putting them down. -
November 16th, 2006 at 11:40 amwow derrick, i like that quote, and it couldn’t have been layed out better than by the second paragraph…
And Alf, you have some great examples to compare and use. Great thought went into those two writings.
I think the original Travis seems like he will be strong and do everything he can to remain that way and I can appreciate that…. I have strong opinions as well, I just don’t want to see a person with such potential to be hard on himself when things fail, it’s human nature… but great conversation on here guys thanks.
The other Trav.
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paolo Says:
December 28th, 2006 at 8:36 pmDear Nadine,
please came to Italy, I am ready to support You, marry You or introduce You to the best society. Please leave Indonesian problems aside.
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Dark Moon Says:
April 9th, 2007 at 3:02 amNadine,
Our society is a jealous society, it has nothing to do with religion. Maju terus demi nama baik tanah airmu.
a Papuan in exile.
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Cha-i Says:
May 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pmWell, she did claim Indonesia a city instead of a country. I think that is as worst as a citizen of a country can do. She should have used a translator if she doubts her english. So sad to hear such an illiterate comment like that. The ‘bitches’ comment though I can give her because of english as a second language. But how embarrassing of her to say that her own country is a city. [how sad]
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Asad Khan Says:
October 21st, 2007 at 6:25 pmPlease can any body tell us, Why we all Born Naked –
Because we are Muslims, Can’t we all Born wearing Cloths —
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