Christian Law
Jul 25th, 2006, in News, by PatungSexual immorality is the enemy of not only Muslims in Indonesia but also Christians, says a senior religious leader.
Adian Husaini, of the Dewan Dakwah Islamiyah Indonesia (DDII), in speaking to a national conference of the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) in Jakarta, on the 25th, said that sexual sin was opposed by Islam, Christianity, and Judaism together, with almost equal ferocity in the area of prescribed punishments among the three religions.
Take the Bible for example, sexual immorality is regarded as a very serious crime that can be punished by stoning to death, even by burning alive, as can be seen in the Book of Deuteronomy, 22:20-22.
(Bibel misalnya, memandang perbuatan zina sebagai kejahatan amat berat dan harus dihukum mati dengan cara dilempari batu, bahkan dibakar hidup-hidup seperti dilihat pada Kitab Ulangan 22:20-22.)
The Bible commanded Christians to live by the law of the Torah, the law of ancient Israel, he said. With this in mind he said that the opposition of Christians in Indonesia to the existence of local laws that apply some aspects of Islamic sharia law (see for example in Bulukumba) could not be understood because the laws of Christianity were very similar to those of the sharia. He mentioned by name the Partai Damai Sejahtera (PDS), a Protestant political party whose parliamentarians are fiercely opposed to any Islamic laws in Indonesia (see MP’s Denounce Sharia Laws.)
So it’s strange that Christians oppose Islamic law when their own law is very similar, especially since the regional laws that have Islamic elements do not include the matter of punishments.
(Jadi aneh rasanya penolakan pihak Kristen atas syariat Islam ketika hukum-hukumnya memang mirip, apalagi perda bernuansa syariah tak menyangkut ke soal hukuman.)
He made these interesting comments in a discussion of the Jakarta Charter in which he explained that Muslims in Indonesia had long ago given up on the idea of an explicitly Islamic state. Instead Muslims strived to uphold sharia in their daily lives and, presumably, via the means of city and provincial, rather than national, legislation.
He also went on to say that non-Muslims should not fear sharia because it was not applied to them. Islamic law in Indonesia, what’s more, was simply one part of the legal framework of the country, the others being western constitutional law, traditional law, and the common law.
Christian groups, such as the PDS, had developed a phobia regarding sharia. It would be better for Christian leaders, he said, to struggle for the application of Christian law for their followers, rather than simply be in opposition to another religion’s laws.
28 Comments on “Christian Law”
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Hassan says:
yeah, but stoning adulterers is a strict code on the moses law and the torah, Jesus is an obidient follower of both.
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Jesus only adds a little Love and Logic. Pretty modern for His time. Forgiveness, Love, Tenderness, Kindness, Sharing. Positive words are always easier to our minds compared to negative words. Don’t you think so?
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Susan Bartlett says:
From Romans Chapter 8:1-3
1. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2. For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3. For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh.
Jesus Christ freed us from the law & stated that the only way to the Father was through the Son.
All religions are about people trying to reach up to God by following rules/laws. Only Christianity is about God reaching down to man and redeeming him.
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Paulus says:
The Christian understanding of Jesus’ message is that he is the “end of the law,” to quote the Apostle Paul. Jesus’ coming means that people are free from the law to love other people and do good works.
When are people going to realize that more Law is not the answer. Working on a local basis for justice and peace is what Jesus was talking about, not finding creative ways to make other people into condemnable sinners.
Paulus
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Molisan Tono says:
Yo Hassan, you Moslem creeps. u’re not paying attention good. read good and then give ur comment, other wise… shut the hell up!
AK quoted from the bible and i quote AK…
“People tested Jesus, asking Him, “what should we do to her?” Jesus said, “To those who have no sin may throw the first stone”….”are a sinner Hassan? I bet u r… it just that u don’t wanna admit that. sassy chic… i love u dude, but u’re just so selfish, thinking u’re holy man. get real dude.
now i quote you…
“yeah, but stoning adulterers is a strict code on the moses law and the torah, Jesus is an obidient follower of both.”question:
is Jesus stone that woman?repent and u’ll be save…
not repent… then you may go to hell… I’m sorry -
why am i an embarassment abdullah Muhammad, because I’m against sending nadine to the miss universe 2006?
Molisan Tono, you Christian jackass, read your history, Jesus is an obidient follower of both the moses law and the torah, read your bible, it’s said time and time again that he “worship the Lord of sabbath” and he “upheld (prays in the day of) the sabbath”. now, if sabbath is saturday (the Jewish holiday), then how come he never prayed on sundays like you do? why, because a saint named Paul created your current doctrines.
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Spikeplot says:
Comment deleted for personal abuse.
Admin.
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Rockstar says:
No it wasn’t a doctrine. As a chritian we are free to go to church any days we like, but since most people go to work on weekdays (and sat also) then we gather together on sunday to worship Him.
Jesus also said the ten commandments can be summed up into 2 things (that includes the passage you mentioned): Love your own brother and sister (every living soul basically), and love your God. That’s it. So you can’t take each passage out seperately, but you need to learn the whole scripture thoroughly.
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Rockstar: well, then you have to do some more research, why did sunday was maintained as the holiday (and holy day) in most Christian states? why sunday? it’s because after the nicene (or niceae) council, the roman emperor Constantine (who made Christianity as the official religion in the roman empire) decreed that sunday will be the Christian holy day (day of worship). so there, Jesus never set sunday as the holy day. he never even gave a name to this religion, it wasn’t even Jesus who gave the name “Christianity” as the religion. look it up the bible.
or you can google the entry “nicene council” or “nicaea council”, that’s where the current Christian doctrines came from.
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So what if there is this council and Constantine. So what if the doctrine were ‘fabricated’, we get the point and the point is love. Even if Jesus had a child, even if He’s still dead, it doesn’t mean the ‘law of love’ is wrong.
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ak: “law of love” is not a legitimate religion. religion is a way for people to worship and communicate (through prayer) with the One True God, The Ruler of the Universe. God wants us to worship Him, as a sign of our faith, respect and gratefulness to Him. This live He gave us is a journey to “find” Him, and religion and it’s doctrines is the way to “find” Him. if the doctrines of a religion is wrong (fabricated by man, not created by God) then how can we find the right way to find Him?
for example, if you want to go to a certain place but your map is wrong, then how can you possibly get there? if someoe said that you should use your feeling (i.e. love) to get to that place, it seems like nonsense, right?
we need guidance to find our God, and that guidance should come directly from Him, not fabricated by man.
spikeplot: don’t be angry dude, your comment that had been erased by Patung (admin) shows your anger. probably because I said “Christian jackass” to your dear buddy Molisan Tono, but that’s because he called me “Moslem creep”. you should know that I’m not a harsh person, but if someone said a harsh thing to me, I have a tendency to return the favor.
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Cokorda Raka Angga Jananuraga says:
Hassan? what if love is the map?
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Daniel says:
If Indonesia wants to uphold the State Philosophy (Pancasila), she should reject any trend towards Islamic sharia law. Besides Christianity also Hinduism, Budism will face religious supression under sharia law. The argument that “Islamic law and Christian law are very similar” is non-valid as the statement itself says they are not the same. To implement a law labeled with any religion is just wrong as the law should aply to everyone in a souvereign state, regardless of religion.
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now I’m sure Hassan is really dumb-ass and blind as well…
check this out dude:
i quote Hassan…Hassan Says:
July 26th, 2006 at 9:29 am
yeah, but stoning adulterers is a strict code on the moses law and the torah, Jesus is an obidient follower of both.then i send a question…
Molisan Tono Says:
July 27th, 2006 at 11:58 pm
………………..
question:
is Jesus stone that woman?
………………..i do believe Jesus is obidient follower of both the moses law and the torah… infact He came to fulfilled it. and yet again I try to post this question to you… again
does Jesus stone that woman???
it’s obviously you’re the one who jackass. even that simple question you can figure that out. what a no brain idiot.
love is the message… i love you Hassan, but your ignorance keeps me iritated. there’s no love in your believe… even AA GYM tried to manage how you and your people know “love” through Qolbu Management.
please, do learn from those wise man. and maybe you could get wiser.
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Well… love _is_ the map. Why should it be a nonsense? And yeah apperently ‘love’ does come from Him.
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cokorda: how about if love isn’t the map? would you bet your one-and-only live on an uncertainty like that? how about if love is just an expression of our feelings, so we would help and care for each other, to “reach” fellow humans? but to “reach” God we not something else, which is religion. unless offcourse if you figured that God is exactly like humans, which does not make sense. The Creator is different than the creations.
Molisan Tono: sorry dude, the reason why I hadn’t answered your question: it’s not that i can not answer it, but more because i were IGNORING you.why? well first of all because I don’t want to be involved in a profanity and cursing contest with you. almost all of your comments included some sort of insults to other people (like the “no brain idiot” you used on me). if you wash your mouth with a soap then i may reconsider my approach with you.
secondly, you kept calling me IGNORANT, well if i then IGNORE you that will befit the title you gave me. third reason, I was busy answering the comments by other people here. if you can’t understand that then maybe you should get your IQ checked, you never know, maybe it is you who have a questionable intelligence level.
on account of good faith, I’ll say this: the answer is probably no, he didn’t stone that woman (according to Christian sources). but we were not there, were we? maybe Jesus had a reason not to fulfill the moses and torah law. maybe God told him that the woman was innocent to the crime accused (adultery), so the people was mistaken. don’t you think it’s a paradox that in one hand, Jesus is an obidient follower and came to fulfill (do) the moses and torah law (as you said), but on the other hand he DID NOT fulfill the laws by not stoning that woman? think about it. did he follow or defy the laws?
you can’t conclude from a single event like that and say “love is the message”. the fact is Christianity got it’s doctrines from the council in nicene, not from Jesus himself. so the doctrines were fabricated by man. and I didn’t quote this from ‘the da vince code’, I didn’t even read the book, i come to that conclusion after making some research, both on-line and off-line. maybe you should too.
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From the Bible:
John 14 5-6: [1]
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Luke 10 25-28: [2]
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
He answered: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'”
“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
And so it means…
Following Jesus is the way to Eternal Life [1]. Jesus said to love the Lord and Love your neighbor [2]. Therefore Love is the way to eternal life. The ‘doctrine’ of Love is from Jesus, not Nicene.Jesus didn’t come to fulfull Moses and/or the Torah. He came to redeem the sins of man.
[1] http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+14&version=31
[2] http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+10&version=31 -
Sorry Hassan,
I simply don’t buy your preaching about “GOD”. That simple.
I don’t believe in teachings that require their followers to pray only in particular language.
I don’t believe in teachings that divide people into tribes (that sounds more like a war doctrine to me: us or else).
I don’t believe in teachings that give special privilege to particular ethnic group.ISLAM and JUDAISM (I’m not sure about CHRISTIANISM) fall into the kind of teachings I described above.
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Andrew says:
Hassan oh Hassan, if you don’t know jack about Christianity, just shut up. interpreting the Bible literally is dangerous, that is why you and a lot of your Moslem brothers got into trouble acting based on your own free interpretation of your book.
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ronlad says:
For those commentators. It’s good to defend our belief but please don’t use bad words such as dumb-ass, jack ass and etc. especially the Christians. In my opinion, The sharia law will give more problems to this nation. Non-Muslims will surely want to leave the cities or provinces with sharia law if they have chance to do it. The suppresed non-Muslims in the region like Aceh and Banten will cause the suppressed Muslims in non-predominant Muslim regions such as Bali, Sulut, NTT, etc. thus, will make them move to the regions with sharia. This will absolutely happen and the absolute result is Indonesia that i and perhaps you really love will be the new Balkan. For me, it’s a much stronger disaster than tsunami. God Bless Indonesia.
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yeah ronlad, maybe the Christians here just have a filthy mouth, courtesy of the so called “religion of love”. how can you preach love, but have no manners?
ak, the funny thing is, you wrote:
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
He answered: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'”
(correct me if I’m wrong, but i concluded that ‘the law’ that Jesus mentioned is the law of torah or moses law)
then you said:
Jesus didn’t come to fulfull Moses and/or the Torah. He came to redeem the sins of man.
(errr duh, this contradicts the fact that Jesus pointed out that they should follow the Law of moses and/or the Torah, read your own statement, oh dear ak. didn’t he just fullfill the Laws?)
andrew, i do know a thing or two about your religion, not the kind your priests preached on your churches off course. and I’m not one of those liberals you mentioned either.
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Hi Hasan,
It’s the law of God (Love the lord your God……etc) Of course we can find it in all religions that teach love.
God bless Indonesia.
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Josef says:
I don’t personally care if Islam is the way to God or not. I just want to know, why are Muslims are so insecure in their faith that they need special laws and police to make people live like good Muslims? The point is that Christians don’t just not want Islamic laws, they don’t want or need “Christian Laws” either. They don’t need to enforce their faith.
I think that many Muslims don’t really believe Islam, but are just scared to admit it to people out of fear. It is a shame you must use fear and threats to practice religion.It is not the yours, mine, or the governments business whether I am a good Muslim or Christian or whatever. That is between me and God.
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Bradlymail says:
Yes, Josef, I agree with you!
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are you spamming, Josef?
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Figured I could catch more fish with 4 hooks than with 1
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Calan Townley says:
God is love and love is God my friends!
Comment on “Christian Law”.
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AFAIK:
There is a story in the new testament in where people wanted to stone a woman for committing adultery (zina). People tested Jesus, asking Him, “what should we do to her?” Jesus said, “To those who have no sin may throw the first stone”. Everyone realized that no man is without sin and dare not stone the woman. People then went away and Jesus forgave the woman’s sin.
In my oppinion what Jesus tried to say is, “Forgivenes, not violence”. But that is, my oppinion. I’m not a scholar of the Bible by the way, CMIIMW