Tao, Taoism Religion

Apr 1st, 2009, in IM Posts, by

Taoists are clamouring to have their religion recognised by the government.

In early March Taosu Agung Kusumo, a leader of Tao/Taoisme Indonesia (Majelis Tao Indonesia), paid a visit to leaders of the Partai Damai Sejahtera (PDS), a Christian party whose main platform is freedom of religion, to ask the PDS for assistance in having Taoism recognised by the state.

Taosu Agung Kusumo
Taosu Agung Kusumo

Taosu Agung said at the moment Taoists in Indonesia, of whom he claimed there were millions, called themselves Buddhists for official purposes, like on their KTP/identity cards, but this was no good:

Buddhism and Taoism are fundamentally different.

Carol Daniel Kadang of the PDS agreed to help the Taoists, because until now they had been disenfranchised, with no-one to represent them, and particularly because there were about 5 million Taoist voters in the country.


PDS election banner on theme of freedom of religion.

It seems the Taoists approached most parties at the DPR but only received a response from the PDS. [1]


54 Comments on “Tao, Taoism Religion”

Pages: [1] 2 »

  1. avatar fullmoonflower says:
    April 1st, 2009 at 11:41 am

    waah… it’s remind me to my suhu, Ko Awi, who teached me feng shui when I was in Manado… he is a Taoist… :-)

  2. avatar ananda says:
    April 1st, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    In fact, the matter of religious adherence is in the private domain, not in the public one. That is why, the country has no right at all to dictate the belief of any citizen. Moreover, the country should defend the freedom of any citizen to choose any belief or even if the citizen doesn’t want to believe in anything.

  3. avatar ronald says:
    April 1st, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    Kakanda completely agree with you ananda.

  4. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Mbak Ananda,

    In fact, the matter of religious adherence is in the private domain, not in the public one.

    This ‘private domain’ is a christianity concept. Islam is here to rule and to eliminate all other false religions.

  5. avatar Andrew says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 3:21 am

    This ‘private domain’ is a christianity concept. Islam is here to rule and to eliminate all other false religions.

    Kangmas, freedom of religion is here to stay.

  6. avatar diego says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 3:55 am

    Let’s make the list of those false religions. We’ll start our discussion from there. Let me contribute one to the list:

    - Judaism.

  7. avatar diego says:
    April 2nd, 2009 at 3:57 am

    I mean: – Judaism…, and everything else that follow / copy / build upon.

  8. avatar Brother Mouzone says:
    April 3rd, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    This ‘private domain’ is a christianity concept. Islam is here to rule and to eliminate all other false religions.

    Obviously a troll… I wasn’t completely sure until I saw the comedy profile photo… nice one :)

  9. avatar hary says:
    April 4th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Hey Diego, maybe you would like to tell us which religion is real to you; all the better to evaluate your views and viewpoints.
    Aside… is Diego DW?

  10. avatar schmerly says:
    April 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    @ AssmadsAngryBitch…

    Islam is here to rule and to eliminate all other false religions.

    How do you intend to do that, more suicide bombers?

  11. avatar David says:
    April 4th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Let’s make the list of those false religions.

    Yes Diego, let’s hear your criteria for determining a ‘false’ religion.

  12. avatar diego says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 7:30 am

    Well, let’s start with this: the reason why there are wars (today) is because of those religions (islam, christianity, and of course, the root of those evils, judaism).

    To my understanding, a religion is supposed to help its adherent to reach a higher level of consciouness. You know, basically becoming a nicer person, less asshole each day.

    But just by looking at the situation, I mean the mess, in the middle-east, it’s easy for you to ask yourself: “what the fag is wrong with those people?”.

    Bla bla bla, I came to the conclusion, it’s because of the thing, I mean the shit, they believe in. Instead of making the joos (judaism) and the arabs (islam) nice person, those (false) religions turn them into zombie, blood-thirsty. Not nice at all. They insult each other, joos are calling the arabs subhumans (torah), the arabs are calling the joos apes (quran), etc. WTF.

    To me those religions, or should I call it “semitic mumbo-jumbo”, started off as a conflict in the family. You know, Adam shagged Sara first, and promised her land. Later, Adam shagged Hagar as well (and promised the same thing). Sara’s ego got hurt, so she kicked Hagar out, and teached her kids (which later would become the joos) to hate Hagar’s offsprings. Hagar’s ego got hurt, and she also told her kids (which later would become the arabs) to hate Sara’s offsprings.

    So, this whole torah and quran are actually a kind of “codified hate”. If you look at the issues that occupy the mind of the joos these days, it’s all about israel, zion movement, holocaust, bla bla bla, which makes them sound shrill and vindictive. It’s tribal issue, their tribal issue. The same goes for the arabs (muslims), it’s all about the golden days of khilafah, of mohammed, etc, which make them… err… terrorist. It’s also tribal issue, their tribal issue. Nothing spiritual in there. Empty. Hollow.

    So yes, judaism is a false religion…, and anything that followed. So let me add two more to the list:

    - Christianity.
    - Islam.

  13. avatar diego says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 7:32 am

    Sorry, I mean Abraham, not Adam.

  14. avatar Oigal says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 9:47 am

    Yes Diego, let’s hear your criteria for determining a ‘false’ religion.

    Shouldn’t be hard..any that make claims that cannot be proven by science..Gee I guess that means all of them.. Oh what a stepforward for mankind

  15. avatar schmerly says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 9:57 am

    Bubble, bubble! I think I can hear Dopey diego drowning in it’s own vitriolic bile!

  16. avatar Lairedion says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    On the desert cults I second diego here.

    Shouldn’t be hard..any that make claims that cannot be proven by science..Gee I guess that means all of them.. Oh what a stepforward for mankind

    That’s too much thinking from a narrow theist vs. atheist stance. There are religions not bothered with a belief in a creator god and encouraging us to develop compassion and wisdom side by side as we don’t know everything. Such a belief system cannot be labeled as “false” as it is ever evolving and changing like everything else around us.

  17. avatar ET says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Diego makes valid points. The whole thing started when the Jews made assumptions that their tribal history had a divine purpose, that they were god’s chosen people and that they were granted a promised land. What’s supposed to be religion was hijacked and put at the service of local politics. Christianity tried to break away from it during the first centuries but was sucked back in when Muhammed also for political reasons lumped them and the Jews together and turned them into Islam’s common enemy. Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”
    The rest is history and it is still going on until people will recognize the hoax it is based upon.
    Those who need a religion for psychological stability and a sense of purpose in life should have a go at Buddhism, Hinduism or Taoism. Their scope is wider but intellectually more challenging than this “semitic mumbo-jumbo”.

  18. avatar hary says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    There were wars before the coming of religion. To suggest that the religions are false because two tribes in the Middle East are fighting wars based on religion, is rather disingenous.
    European wars were fought over territory and trade. It does not follow that territory and trade are false.
    I accept that many religions have been hijacked for political and economic purposes, this is the fault of man and not the religion. (think Buddhist releasing lethal gas in subways in Tokyo)

    To Et, don’t take the verse out of its context as most Muslims have. The Prophet was refering to the two Jewish tribes in Yathrib who had made alliances with his enemies in Mecca.

    Something can exist without science having to prove it. Trust, Love, common sense, happiness…science is not the final arbiter of whether something exists.

    Ah… the collective wisdom of the individual ignorance.

  19. avatar Lairedion says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    hary,

    Territory and trade are not ideologies/belief systems/religions. Fail to see the comparison.

    I accept that many religions have been hijacked for political and economic purposes, this is the fault of man and not the religion.

    I disagree. Too often we must read it’s not the fault of religion. Religions are the results of thoughts and deeds of humans like antyhing else. Like other ideologies they have no rights and need to prove their quality over and over again to see if they have any added value to society, mankind and nature.

    Something can exist without science having to prove it. Trust, Love, common sense, happiness…science is not the final arbiter of whether something exists.

    Agree. And why would people be interested in a scientific explanation or proof of feeling happy or bad? But then again these are states of mind, not ideologies.

  20. avatar David says:
    April 5th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    Diego, thanks for your answer, and I appreciate where you’re coming from, and for people from the non-Islamised and non-Christianised parts of Indonesia it makes sense. I don’t share that view, and I know little about ‘eastern’ religions and care less, but that is my bad of course.

    To my understanding, a religion is supposed to help its adherent to reach a higher level of consciouness. You know, basically becoming a nicer person, less asshole each day.

    Like I said I don’t know much of eastern religions but from another perspective ‘becoming a nicer person’ is not something to really care about because it dodges the question of mortality, death, the Big One. And I don’t think it’s possible, people will always be assholes with or without religion. And it’s too personal. But I’m not on strong ground here I’ll admit. If it works for you then fine.

    One of these days I’ll try to present a sort of defence of Judaism, and by extension Christianity (I have nothing to say about Islam), and try to tie it in with Indonesia, but hmm it’ll take time…

  21. avatar diego says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Seriously,

    I was much more ignorant about this middle-east thing before I moved to this country. I mean, ok, before that the only bad guy in my view was the islamists (arabs).

    But then, after I moved to this country, I perceived a kind of resentment of the (local) people toward the jews…, for the same reasons, I think I’m familiar with: they’re explotadores (I heard stories about jew business owner locked his workers in the building, resulting in deaths, because they couldn’t escape the 1985 earthquake), they’re cheap, they care only about money, they don’t integrate (they live in some wealthy enclaves in the city), they feel superior (I even heard the owner of my company — who was a jew — called one of his employee “(amer)indian”), etc.

    Then, during Israel’s attack to Lebanon 2 years ago, I learned that it’s not only the arabs who’s to blame. The jews too. What they did to the people of Lebanon, and their arrogance while doing it, got me thinking: why are those people like that?

    There where I started googling, and found stories about Abraham, Hagar, Sara, etc. That’s how I became convinced these abrahamic religions are… empty. I don’t see any purpose in it except for keeping the hate alive between the two tribes.

  22. avatar Cukurungan says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    Those who need a religion for psychological stability and a sense of purpose in life should have a go at Buddhism, Hinduism or Taoism. Their scope is wider but intellectually more challenging than this “semitic mumbo-jumbo”.

    Your advice is smell fishy, because, once Indonesia becomes another Thailand, Cambodia, Laos as you wish, [deleted] without fear FPI reprisal.

    So yes, judaism is a false religion…, and anything that followed. So let me add two more to the list:

    - Christianity.
    - Islam.

    It is no quite convincing try with the better one, because, it is only based on your personal experience. What do you think if you are a person who live in Nepal, Srilangka, North Korea or Burma or Cambodia?

  23. avatar hary says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Seriously Diego,
    The Jews that I have met are articulate, intelligent, generous and hospitable. Whatever are you reading from?
    Substituting the word Jew with Chinese in your post may work just as well.

    But then, after I moved to this country, I perceived a kind of resentment of the (local) people toward the jews…, for the same reasons, I think I’m familiar with: they’re explotadores (I heard stories about jew business owner locked his workers in the building, resulting in deaths, because they couldn’t escape the 1985 earthquake), they’re cheap, they care only about money, they don’t integrate (they live in some wealthy enclaves in the city), they feel superior (I even heard the owner of my company — who was a jew — called one of his employee “(amer)indian”), etc.

    Generalisations, and not too clever ones at that.

  24. avatar hary says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    With resoect Lareidon,
    My point is that a religion, if used as a reason for wars, is not determinitive of whether it is real or false. I was merely addressing your conclusion that it was false since wars are fought in their name.
    As for my point on scientific proof, I am glad you agree.

  25. avatar Mr Tic Tac Toe says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Tn. Diego, Yth:

    Nothing spiritual in there. Empty. Hollow.

    But but… i thought empty is full and full is empty?

    :)

  26. avatar diego says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    Allright,

    I guess it should’ve been clear now I have this “ethnic superiority” feeling inside me (in this case with being “east asian”). I don’t try to hide it. But at least I’m doing any harm to anyone with that. It’s just in my mind.

    Well, I don’t know much about abrahamic literatures, except that telenovela of Abraham+Hagar+Sara which — like any telenovela — is stupid.

    I know Mahabharata, Bharatayuda, etc which I read during my childhood. I also learned there are lots of good things to learn from those stories. One that sticks in my mind is Yudhistira’s compassion & loyalty to the dog that accompanied him to the door of heaven.

    Or a more actual one, Oshin. You know, that Japanese TV series. It teaches a lot about “east-asian values” of being respectful, hardworking, persistent, etc.

    I don’t know if middle-eastern culture (semitic) have something comparable. What can you learn from the stories in the Quran and Torah except: “oh we’re waiting for the messiah…. Hey you, stupid arab, out!”, or “Let’s kill the jews and christians!!!”???

    Don’t they have something “menjejak bumi”, touches the heart, more human? Not just stories about divine revelations, etc???

    That’s, maybe, one of the reason for me to look down on that part of the planet. I mean, I really can’t consider those “religions” as something useful for me. I’m not interested in messiah, god, etc. I’m just interested in this planet and its inhabitants.

  27. avatar diego says:
    April 6th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Estimado Sr. TTT el Vulcano,

    Allright, I know you’re intelligent (thanks for the link). I’m just a, you know, lay-man. I do VoIP programming, but it doesn’t mean I’m as intelligent as you are (this is not a sarcastic remark). Actually apart from basic tenets of hinduism (karma, reincarnation, tri kaya parisudha, etc), I know very little about spiritualism. It does attract me, I just don’t have enough attention span to study it.

    What I’m trying to say: I keep asking myself why we (Indonesians) can’t turn our back to those semitic religions? It’s been taking our energy away…. too much, for too long. If only we can return to dharmic religions, like the rest of east-asian nations.

    Have you heard of Nalanda university. Here check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University

    There’s a consortium consisting of nations like Japan, China, India to resurrect that university.

    Where’s Indonesia in that picture?

  28. avatar Mr Tic Tac Toe says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 2:37 am

    Tn. Diego, Yth:

    Dont take it too seriously. I just happened to read that page, when reading your post about emptiness. The coincidence was too awesome to ignore, so i shared. Didnt mean to offend or anything.

    As for the intelligent thing, i disagree. I just happened to read things that you havent read, and you read things i havent read.
    Now, can you share me the best place to learn about that VOIP programming thing? it sounds interesting. :)

    What I’m trying to say: I keep asking myself why we (Indonesians) can’t turn our back to those semitic religions?

    Somebody told me, organized religion is not for truth seekers. Perhaps most of us are just too hungry to become full time truth seekers.

    As for me, I pick protestant ethics as way of life becoz of Weber. I read catholics thoughts and philosophies merely to keep my mind busy.
    I dump the dogma altogether.

    My God(OR the lack of it) is my own deeply personal matter, whichsoever belief system (OR disbelief system) I pick as identity.

    So, I dont think we will ever discussing which one is the better God, yours or mine. Unless, of course, lagi iseng…. :)

    (We will, however, inevitably discuss that most fascinating matter about which one has the longer beard, sooner or later)

    Have you heard of Nalanda university.

    Yea, srivijayan people made their living by having some kinda prep-school for nalanda uni in sumatra.

    Good to know there is an effort for its revival. As for indonesia… well perhaps we should make a prep school for nalanda first, then everything else will follow.

    (now im wondering where does the preview button go)

  29. avatar diego says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 2:44 am

    Have you heard of Nalanda university.

    Yea, srivijayan people made their living by having some kinda prep-school for nalanda uni in sumatra.

    Was it like “Ganesha Operation” or “Primagama” of their time? Wow, lucrative business.

  30. avatar diego says:
    April 7th, 2009 at 2:55 am

    Oh ya, ET made an interesting remark about christianity trying to break away from the vicious circle.

    I alwasy got the feeling maybe I should take out christianity — at its current form — from the list of false religions.

    I guess it has developed its (new) set of values during its formative years in europe, that makes it quite distinctive from judaism & islam. Is that right?

    So…, that leaves islam and judaism in the dust. Poor children of abraham…, tan perdidos.

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