River Flooding & Dredging

Jan 23rd, 2009, in News, by

Account from the capital as Dutch dredging engineers are helping Jakartans to reduce the effect of floods.

“Watch your head! Get down! ” With a feeling of satisfaction dredger Michael de Boer is watching from the quayside how his apprentice Ujang Sukardi is maneuvering the slide boat easily under the bridge. The lighter being pushed forward by the slide boat is full with smelly black sludge. “In the Netherlands we dredge mud almost exclusively, here the main waste are concrete bollards, half timber, furniture and huge quantities of plastic.”

De Boer and a colleague of Dutch dredging firm Dosco are already more than a month in Jakarta to train municipal staff in small scale dredging techniques. The slide boats can explore those channels inaccessible for cranes. This is ideal for Jakarta with all those fully built banks. “This is pure Dutch dredging knowledge,” claims Director of Dosco Dick Konijn, “just like the whole water management.”

Indonesia has every reason to request the expertise from Dutch water experts as three quarters of Jakarta was flooded in 2007. “With dredging, we cannot solve the problem of floods “, Project Manager Peter Vroege of Dutch consulting and engineering firm DHV immediately says. Jakarta is flooded every year because it sinks a few inches as a result of urbanization and groundwater abstraction. “But we can reduce the nuisance by improving draining.”

Decades of overdue maintenance have taken its toll. A tropical rain immediately causes floods in Jakarta because the rivers and canals are almost completely choked up. In order to enhance the flow one million cubic meters of sludge must be dredged. An ambitious World Bank project will result in the deepening of 13 major rivers: 9 million cubic meters in 3 years. The Dutch dredging project executed by a consortium of companies serve as a pilot project. The Netherlands pay for the slide boats, the city of Rotterdam helps with the planning of maintenance and businesses will focus on dredging techniques, technical assistance and treatment. “Logistics is the biggest problem,” Project Manager Vroege knows. “Where will you dump those millions of cubic meters of dredging and transport it while facing daily traffic congestion?

The dredging still can be used as filling on a marshy building site. “Two thousand cubic meters is already gone,” dredging student Ujang reports with pride. It’s not much, only 400 meters . “But you see it immediately,” De Boer points. “The water flows and it’s green again.”

Floods in Jakarta
Floods in Jakarta

Floods are frequently paralysing Jakarta

The account is a translation from an article published in Dutch daily AD on 21 January 2009, Baggerproject helpt Jakarta bij overstromingen

Currently a consortium head by Dutch consultancy and engineering firm DHV are executing a three months pilot project tackling the Jakarta canals with its goal to reduce the effects caused by floods. The project is a result of a study by Dutch and Indonesian authorities cooperating on managing high water. The World Bank has promised Indonesia a loan to follow-up the project.

One can only hope this project will indeed be followed-up and that the World Bank money won’t disappear again in the pockets of corrupt politicians at the expense of the needy.

(source: Engineeringnow.nl 14 november 2008, DHV pakt kanalen Jakarta aan. An English translation of this article can be found here.)


28 Comments on “River Flooding & Dredging”

  1. avatar dragonwall says:

    Before the flood water recedes someone’s pocket might be flooding! So let’s hoped that those handling the project does not siphoned the money from World Bank into their own pocket.

  2. avatar Bintang Kejora says:

    For many decades, the poor long suffering residents of ever-growing Jakarta have put up with steadily worsening floods because they no longer have the world’s best flood prevention engineers around to put things to rights. And of course everything the Dutch did was evil, so how could we ever accept they might have been indispensable to keeping the flood waters out?

    This story evidences a giant step forward. To anyone who has travelled the north Java coastal plain, the evidence of Dutch flood defences and drainage is everywhere. Most of them have not been expanded (or as this article shows, even properly treated and maintained) in over 60 years despite the manifold growth of its cities, especially Jakarta. It is ludicrous to expect flood defences designed for a city that stopped south of Menteng to keep today’s vast metropolis safe and dry. The East Flood Canal we are promised will open soon will help, but there will still be banjir every Jan-Feb in many parts of Greater Jakarta.

    So swallow your pride Indonesia and welcome back De Boer and Konijn and their engineering buddies, with open arms. With global warming we are soon going to be engulfed with water from south and north. We need all the help we can muster if life is going to continue here, let alone be bearable.

  3. avatar sputjam says:

    This is a viable project.
    Dredge all that filth from the rivers and drains from Jakarta, and sell it to Singapore for their land reclamation scheme.
    Win-win proposition.

  4. avatar Lairedion says:

    Bintang Kejora,

    So swallow your pride Indonesia and welcome back De Boer and Konijn and their engineering buddies, with open arms. With global warming we are soon going to be engulfed with water from south and north. We need all the help we can muster if life is going to continue here, let alone be bearable.

    So true, BK. Can’t deny the fact that one of my goals to publish this article was to show an example of fine cooperation between Dutch and Indonesian authorities on a professional level, free from the colonial burden.

    The Netherlands, for a large part lying below sea level, have a persistent history of fighting floods and managing water. As a result the Dutch are renown worldwide as experts on water management. After Katrina struck New Orleans in 2005 many American engineers sought expertise with their Dutch counterparts on how to build a future system that can strongly reduce the effects of floods.

    Again, it is indeed important to understand and accept one cannot prevent floods and fight the forces the nature. In the case of Java this would imply reforestation of areas now probably used for agriculture or urbanization. But we can put in every effort of trying to reduce the effects as much as possible.

  5. avatar dragonwall says:

    Dredge all that filth from the rivers and drains from Jakarta, and sell it to Singapore for their land reclamation scheme.
    Win-win proposition.

    I guess you forgot to swallow the pride. If you did then it might make you feel better than selling filth to Singapore.

    Then that would be a win win situation for you.

  6. avatar Rob says:

    Dredging will only solve problems associated with existing waterways that are alternatively full of sediment or trash or both.

    I am watching with interest the building of the Eastern Flood Canal. This canal was full last week, or at least the holes that will be joined up to form the canal were, and there was still extensive flooding in areas like Cipinang Muara and Kampung Melayu.

    I am lucky to live in an area that is not prone to annual flooding. It must be hard for those who have no option but to wait for the annual floods and have no real place to go to avoid them. More to the point, when is the government of Jakarta going to finally get a handle on the problem and save the citizens of Jakarta from the annual suffering they currently endure?

  7. avatar diego says:

    Anyone can construe the meaning of this… noise?

    I guess you forgot to swallow the pride. If you did then it might make you feel better than selling filth to Singapore.

    Then that would be a win win situation for you.

  8. avatar Bintang Kejora says:

    Rob

    More to the point, when is the government of Jakarta going to finally get a handle on the problem and save the citizens of Jakarta from the annual suffering they currently endure?

    Simple answers, when they realise the scale of the problem and allocate funds to the degree necessary, which would be an horrendous shock to the economy. Also when the eminent domain law in Indonesian is changed to become workable. Possibly when development at Puncak is halted. Possibly also when the city can be stabilised to prevent it sinking slowly due to extraction of water from underlying aquifers, which renders it even more vulnerable to future sea level rises. And finally when our pride is swallowed to the point where hundreds of Dutch engineers could be allowed to run this enterprise for years at a time.

    The system we have now more or less dates from pre-WW2, when Jakarta stopped at Menteng. In times of high water levels, the flood gates at Manggerai (just south of the old city) are shut to stop the Ciliwung river waters encroaching north of this old city limit, and the waters are diverted through the Banjir Kanal westwards then northwestwards to emerge in Jakarta Bay at Pluit. Any flooding is restricted to an area south (and of course east) of this defence.

    A quick glance at a map of Jakarta shows you how much of the twenty first century Jakarta lies outside this defence system, and just how extensive the defences would need to be to protect us now. And that’s just from the south, not from subsidence and rising sea levels.

  9. avatar PrimaryDrive says:

    Jakarta … is really the reflection of how we Indonesians solve problems. Everything in Jakarta is short sighted. This makes mess, and we solve it by moving the mess elsewhere.

    So, who is most to blame for this situation? The “people”? Or the well-educated middle class?

  10. avatar sputjam says:

    Gong Xi Fa Cai dragonwall. Too bad no holidays in the US for this occasion. I am sure you are most at home in a country where billions could be siphoned of from investors without any reprimand from the authorities, just as those indonesian bankers were welcome with their ill gotten billions by the singapore authorities in 1997/98 financial crisis.

    I can see the dutch are sharing their expertise with the indonesian to reduce flooding.
    however, almost all south east asian countries have utilised houses built on stilts, which overceame so many problems associated with living in this region, one of them being frequent flooding.
    other benefits includes better ventilation and cooling and prevent wild animals from coming into the house.
    Unfortunatle, almost all modern builders/architects have abandoned /ignored this very very environmentally friendly method of construction.

    By the way, wasn’t jakarta airport built on swamp/paddy land? Best for the design engineers who did this head for KLIa (Kuala lumpur airport) as they have to build their permanent low cost terminal on some swamp land, which the carrier airasia isn’t too happy about. Unhappy enough to threaten to build another new airport on their own.

  11. avatar dragonwall says:

    I have seen you and the other guys wasting away by others with the FPI issue, Jesus issue so by asking this if

    Anyone can construe the meaning of this… noise?

    meant that your mentality were similar to ” a dog born in a barn will not make you a horse”.

    If by seeling filth to Singapore will makes it a win win situation then swallowing the his pride by accepting help from others will make him happier in a win win situation, bego.

    Indonesia is too proud by insisting that they can go on their own but in fact they can’t. Finally they still stretch their hands for hand outs.

    Goeltom cut the interest rate to help boost the rupiahs but it didn’t. The Indonesian government were asking for hand outs like 900 million while Sri Mulyani is ready to spend the 2 billion and an extra 5 billion save from infrastructure to spend in helping the Indonesian economy.

    I suggested to hike the rates. 1. I have seen the interest raised to 2.75 percent per month for savings that is around 33 % which is good in attracting deposits at Mandiri. Whereas Panin is offering 8%.
    The central bank cuts rates to enable bankers to make soft loans. This is a bad move which many people welcome with arms open.

    Bottomline is “Easy to borrow difficult to Return”.

    Whereas bankers will loan the money at a low rate to pay off interest at high rate.

    SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

    Is it the other way round.

    JUST MAKE YOUR OWN FORECAST AND WE WILL SEE WHEN THE INDONESIAN ECONOMY WILL COLLAPSE.

    Sputjam and Gong Xi Fa Cai to you. In am answering some of the questions you had put forward and now it is about time to reveal the truth to you if you see the market.

    Too bad no holidays in the US for this occasion. I am sure you are most at home in a country where billions could be siphoned of from investors without any reprimand from the authorities,

    Honestly speaking if I had wanted to the very first thing I would have done was that
    before Radius Prawiro made the announcement on devaluing the rupiah from 500 = 1 USD to 1000 = 1 USD I would have borrowed money from the banks in rupiahs and change them into dollars. Then after the announcement I simply had the dollr change back into rupiahs I would have made 100% without any efforts. Just imagine the leak before it becomes law.

    just as those indonesian bankers were welcome with their ill gotten billions by the singapore authorities in 1997/98 financial crisis.

    If I were you I would think the other way. Simple. Asked yourself one question. If it is your own money will you move out of Indonesia. Lets forget the what your so called ill gotten billion which were merely conjectures. I will tell you this. Most of the BLBI money were borrowed from the government by banksers eager to loan to consumers. The consumers were at default making the payment to central bank delinguent. Logically speaking where did the bankers siphoned the ill gotten billions to Singapore. Don’t you think the Singapore government would have make a back ground check on them? Do you think Singapore would want to carry the burden of being accused of collaborating with crooks to launder money? If you are smart enlugh instead of thinking with such pessimism, the it would have made you a better person.
    And that is the difference between you and I.

    I can see the dutch are sharing their expertise with the indonesian to reduce flooding.
    however, almost all south east asian countries have utilised houses built on stilts, which overceame so many problems associated with living in this region, one of them being frequent flooding.

    Yes. Our house in Teluk Kurau were built in the old days which they raised the bottom to about the height of an adult.
    I think Indonesia should return to the old days to save a lot of money and prevent corruptions to take place.

    other benefits includes better ventilation and cooling and prevent wild animals from coming into the house.
    Unfortunatle, almost all modern builders/architects have abandoned /ignored this very very environmentally friendly method of construction.

    More flooding will be seen in flood prone areas throughout the world because the Artic ice have splt.

    By the way, wasn’t jakarta airport built on swamp/paddy land? Best for the design engineers who did this head for KLIa (Kuala lumpur airport) as they have to build their permanent low cost terminal on some swamp land, which the carrier airasia isn’t too happy about. Unhappy enough to threaten to build another new airport on their own.

    Should get Soedyatmo to come bakc and redesign it again the ‘CAKAR AYAM’.

    Why not tell the governor to slap a heavy fin on people that build, PLUIT, PANTAI INDAH KAPUK and all those areas that affected the Toll and to make them pay the damage as well as to rectify the flood.

    In 1980’s the flood wasn’t that bad which affects some areas only. Now it is like in India. Later you will find worst flood even with the help of the Dutch if the design they a putting up that is thought to have work and were force to leave and let the project rot due to lack of finance.

    We will see the outcome of the Dutch. Engineering is good. Ethiquete? I hope it is not like what they did during their occuptaion of Indonesia.

  12. avatar ultratupai says:

    It is a bit ironic that the people who built Batavia on the floodplains of thirteen rivers are back to try to help fix the problem they caused in the first place.

    And the most intractable problem of all is that water has a nasty habit of going where it pleases regardless.

    I think it might be time to consider Jakarta’s new role as the Venice of the Java Sea. The problem will get far worse before it gets even slightly better.

  13. avatar dragonwall says:

    RIGHT, GET THE GONDOLA’S IN.

    Convert all the military dinghis into gondola. How nice.

  14. avatar Bintang Kejora says:

    Stilted houses, what a great idea. But getting around will still be tough unless we all have boats. Have you been to Bandar Sri Begawan (also called the Venice of the East)? They have an area there called Kampung Ayer, where the water becomes your home and not an alien invader, but the residents need boats, water taxis, whatever.

    To blame the Dutch for building Jakarta where it is – that is unfair (but then Belanda are a easy target) . Anywhere along the North Java coastal plain suffers in the same way. Sometimes geography is your friend, sometimes it ain’t. And compared to their homeland, north Java was easy for the Dutch to manage. They could do it now but does Indonesia have the cash?

  15. avatar PrimaryDrive says:

    Ultratupai: It is a bit ironic that the people who built Batavia on the floodplains of thirteen rivers are back to try to help fix the problem they caused in the first place.

    13 rivers?? I only know Ciliwung.

    I think it’s about time we move the capital to Australia. This would solve many problems in one sweep.

  16. avatar ET says:

    ultratupai said

    It is a bit ironic that the people who built Batavia on the floodplains of thirteen rivers are back to try to help fix the problem they caused in the first place.

    For centuries the Dutch have been building cities and villages on floodplains in their own country and managed it rather well, to the extent that they are considered the worlds leading experts on water and flood management. No wonder they did the same with Batavia. Their only mistake was not having foreseen that one day Batavia would become Jakarta to be managed from then on by ignorants, indifferents, corruptors and shortsighted dummies.

  17. avatar sputjam says:

    I don’t know DW. Last time I heard the myamar junta and robert mugabe and his cronies had money parked in singapore.maybe you should participat in singapore forums more often.

    By making money expensive to borrow, you discourage businesses to expand and create job and economic activities. Hence in a recession, every govenrment is trying to lower interest rates in order to stimulate the economy.The money is not lent to those who cannot afford to pay like the sub prime borrowers, but to genuine businesses and to people who are creative and responsible.

    If you want high interest rates, go to zimbabwe.

    Maybe we can get the dutch to build dykes bordering jakarta and the sea. But knowing them, the would prefer Jakarta to disappear underneath the sea.

  18. avatar diego says:

    I guess DW has the illusion that singapore is a “beacon of morality, clear conscience, democracy and high-civilization in the region”. Hmm…. I guess WHO can put this problem in their list of psychological diseases, calling it “singdrome”, replacing homosexuality that that they took out of the list back in the 70’s.

  19. avatar dragonwall says:

    I guess you were not given the opportunity of being gang raped by Arab policemen, all 45 of them making pedopile like you missing what you considered to be homosexuality replacing your so call “singdrome”.

    When reality is something you have been longing for, it is arsehole like you that have always been living in the world of fantasies full of illusions unwilling to accept other’s achievements.

    And one thing whether you like it or not, singapore is a “beacon of morality, clear conscience, democracy and high-civilization in the region”.

    I really think if other countries throughout the world has already recognize Singapore to be what they are then I feel you don’t have the stomach to swallow that because of your ill conceive illusionary thoughts.

  20. avatar diego says:

    Yo mah man, draggie boy,

    Would ya tell me the name of the drugs you’re taking? Whoaaa…. it looks wikkiiidd!!!

    And one thing whether you like it or not, singapore is a “beacon of morality, clear conscience, democracy and high-civilization in the region”.

  21. avatar dragonwall says:

    Well knowing you would have tried to rebutt this but anyway the drug I am taking is called VIAGRA.!!!!!!!!!!!

    That is how to make a person blood flow with vibrant heartbeat.

    I don’t need to rebutt to this at all. but having the fun of seeing you broiled up like charcoal.

  22. avatar Subrata says:

    @Dragie Wally,

    And one thing whether you like it or not, singapore is a “beacon of morality, clear conscience, democracy and high-civilization in the region”.

    I really think if other countries throughout the world has already recognize Singapore to be what they are then I feel you don’t have the stomach to swallow that because of your ill conceive illusionary thoughts.

    Funny, that’s why Singapore never made the 30 best city/country to live in the world list. 😀

    Ah, you’ll say so is Jakarta/Indonesia, we know that cause you never shut up about it. And yet you keep coming back!

    Well knowing you would have tried to rebutt this but anyway the drug I am taking is called VIAGRA.!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oops, I am sorry, poor Dragie could not get it up by itself eh! 😀 Maybe you should learn from the Latino, Diego, how to stay ready all night without drug. ROTFLOL …………..

    Have a good weekend, ya all!

  23. avatar diego says:

    Look, draggie and wendy,

    Seriously, if you keep going like this doing your personal vendetta against indonesians here in indonesiamatters.com, you’re wasting your time. I don’t think any of us here get offended by your insults. Quite the contrary, it’s entertaining reading your cingcongs (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=2&term=ching+chong).

    Maybe you should take sometime off and go to beijing, there are nice people there. You can dance with people in the temple of sky something (I forgot exactly, but it’s close to that “pearl market). Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMRahMDDIE4

    Try to get in touch with your inner-child and rediscover yourself, and I’m sure you’ll be a happier person when your trip ends. We’d be very interested in hearing your stories.

  24. avatar Lairedion says:

    DW said:

    Well knowing you would have tried to rebutt this but anyway the drug I am taking is called VIAGRA.!!!!!!!!!!!

    LOL. This might explain your style of debating. Blood is drawn to little DW and a bestial, aggressive instinct takes over. On the other hand I don’t think it makes any difference, you’re just like that.

    Why is it that every single thread you participate in ends up in ranting and swearing and having a fight with almost anybody not in tune with your thoughts? Notwithstanding the fact it’s a fun read.

  25. avatar dragonwall says:

    Sputjam:

    Last time I heard the myamar junta and robert mugabe and his cronies had money parked in singapore.maybe you should participat in singapore forums more often.

    Every thing relies on fact? What forum? Do you have the proof? Anyway it is your hersay right! And it is always that people through hearsay that started to spread propaganda.

    By making money expensive to borrow,

    Didn’t BI made money easier to borrow that cause the whole Indonesian economy to collapse? By encouraging expensive borrowing is to ensure these people who are in real business have the capability to pay rather than allowing the bank to borrow cheaply and churning the money they like.

    I am unsure whether you really understand the what is real and what is not.

    You constantly bring up the subject of increasing infrastructure and so on. Even Sri Mulyani suggested on bringing money meant for infrastructure for helping the economy. She said she is prepared to spend 2 billion and another standby 5 billion. How do you make out on this? Don’t you see the difference? We are almost speaking on the different level of economic knowledge.

    you discourage businesses to expand and create job and economic activities.

    Can you expand when you are in a recession?

    Hence in a recession, every govenrment is trying to lower interest rates in order to stimulate the economy.

    Ahh now I know what you are thinking, so if others eat shit you also do the same!

    How can you compare other government when Indonesia’s position is an entirely different story.

    The money is not lent to those who cannot afford to pay like the sub prime borrowers, but to genuine businesses and to people who are creative and responsible.

    This is actually what happened. In the hey days everyone submitted a nice proposal to the bank and got the loans with some “lube oil”. And suddenly everyone got stucked with unpaid loans. Yet you are suggesting that business people to be creative and responsible? Are you not creative? Are you not responsible? Every businessmen are creative and responsible. So they will continue to bring up some creative ideas and assure that they are responsible so that they could get the loan? Is that what is banking to you?

    If you want high interest rates, go to zimbabwe.

    I suppose you must have been living in zimbabwe for quite some time that you lost track of the real world.

    Maybe we can get the dutch to build dykes bordering jakarta and the sea. But knowing them, the would prefer Jakarta to disappear underneath the sea.

    Yes I also do think so, at least there are less 10’s of million of provocators, sowing seed of hatreds. Read the mole face comments in “Islam and Chinese”.

    Funny, that’s why Singapore never made the 30 best city/country to live in the world list.

    I also now understand how Indonesians adopt their javanese names for instance like your. It clearly tells me that it meant SUDAH BERANTAKAN because your mind is all mixed up.
    At least your parents have the foresight to give you this name.

    Singapore may not have been in the 30 best city/country to live in is everyone knows it is expensive. Indonesia for once have made it I suppose?

    Ah, you’ll say so is Jakarta/Indonesia, we know that cause you never shut up about it. And yet you keep coming back!

    Me no understand this! But anyway I left this blog for a few days to see more development. I kept coming back is because I am always ever ready to tick MF bigotry morons like you anywhere anythime.

    Oops, I am sorry, poor Dragie could not get it up by itself eh!

    You should see the face of this guy with my stick shaft into his arse before he GO and DIE.

    Maybe you should learn from the Latino, Diego, how to stay ready all night without drug. ROTFLOL …………..

    No wonder his is staying up like Lionel richie “All Night Long” Oh Oh..

    Seriously, if you keep going like this doing your personal vendetta against indonesians here in indonesiamatters.com, you’re wasting your time.

    Well all that is in your thought are about personal vendetta. What is personal vendetta and how it happened?

    I don’t think any of us here get offended by your insults. Quite the contrary, it’s entertaining reading your cingcongs

    Of course you should be offended, but didn’t Patung and Janma were the ones that were saying that “I misunderstood your sarcarcsm?” So is that insults yourself.
    And people like you should read more of the shortcut you pasted.
    (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=2&term=ching+chong).

    Maybe you should take sometime off and go to beijing, there are nice people there.

    I just told Sputjam not long ago I might diverse to China. And so in China you find nice people and not in Indonesia so that you could continue your sarcarstic remarks when the maid was sexually abused?

    You can dance with people in the temple of sky something (I forgot exactly, but it’s close to that “pearl market).

    Little wonder when you were dancing with a stick stucked up in your arse and you can start yelling “How Suang Ah” ask the mole face what this means.

    Try to get in touch with your inner-child and rediscover yourself, and I’m sure you’ll be a happier person when your trip ends. We’d be very interested in hearing your stories.

    I have been there, I was there and I have rediscover myself and I am happy with what I am doing ticking faked Latinos.. Ha..Ha..Ha.. Go fly a kite.

    LOL. This might explain your style of debating. Blood is drawn to little DW and a bestial, aggressive instinct takes over.

    I missed my viagra for 2 days but nonetheless I hope that the blood flow will make me more aggresively ticking cowards, and traitors like you pretending to be nationalistic when you began lickspittle the Dutch.
    I have a lot of Manado friends but none behaves like you. Whether you are a Manado or not lets see. I used to visit the graveyard of Opung Sosorgalak, Opung Syokuru and numerous of them that fought during the Dutch period. If you know what I am referring, then you should be able to figure out who am I in your Manado community.
    I used to mix around with numerous Manado boxers so that you know. You are just a fake.

    On the other hand I don’t think it makes any difference, you’re just like that.

    Does that makes any difference?

    Why is it that every single thread you participate in ends up in ranting and swearing and having a fight with almost anybody not in tune with your thoughts?

    So when I say something I rant and swear, so you didn’t? Read more about Matthews in the Bible or whatever in your Koran “Newspaper”. Respect is what you earned not asked. Well anyway people like you needs a stick in order to dig properly. Can’t help.

    Notwithstanding the fact it’s a fun read.

    Yeah that is right, when people throws a stone and run away, beahving like coards and traitors it is all but fun, right.

    Yeah and have a good long week days and ends up coming here for more.

  26. avatar Bintang Kejora says:

    And the connection of all this verbal diarrhoea to flood prevention is…

  27. avatar Burung Koel says:

    …if you talk about something long enough, the problem will be solved.

    (cf: governmental policy and practice)

  28. avatar dragonwall says:

    is…

    People don’t exchange their view but to show their skill in writing and when someone undereducated were commenting with less than a “punch” their just get insulted.

    No one is really interested in the topic or provide a certain solution to the problems engulfing Indonesia.

    It is all about hatred and discrimination and abuse. They even become sacarstic when news of maid or someone got raped appears in these blogs.

    They are referring to how staunch a supporter they are towards their religion and blaming others for theirs or their brotherhood’s own fault.

    It is simply about clowning around in these blogs and showing prominence.

    If more Indonesians were more action and less talk then I suppose they will have to disband the NATO.

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