Old Traditions & Customs

Aug 19th, 2008, in IM Posts, Opinion, by

Ross worries that the next target of Islamic fanatics will be old Javanese figures and traditions.

Goddess Versus Fanatics?

We were travelling up Jalan Hayam Wuruk towards North Jakarta on a kopaja, when I spotted a street artist’s display, which included a fine painting of Nyai Loro Kidul, the Goddess of the South Seas.

Nyai Loro Kidul
Nyai Loro Kidul

I praised it to my companion, then the perfectly normal-looking man sitting across from us interjected politely that it was a pity the current Sultan of Jogjakarta’s consort had not been willing for her man to take on the goddess as his junior wife.

His dad and granddad did so, but he won’t, hence the earthquakes etc. up that way.

My companion of course expressed her agreement with this comment, other passengers nodding assent, as if he’d said it was a lovely day today!

Coincidentally, Monday night, about 9pm, we tuned into El Shinta TV channel and caught a feature on a ceremony on the West Java Coast near Pelabuhan Ratu, hundreds of people making offerings to the Goddess, next to the Samoedra Hotel where a special room is dedicated to the diety. The celebrants were coordinated by Muslim chants of Allahu Akbar, which led me to comment that such rituals seemed hardly consonant with Islam. Hardly had I said so when one of the ladies filmed taking the waters in honour of Her Highness was interviewed, saying that the activity was a token of respect for Javanese tradition, religion not a problem.

We ourselves once used that hotel’s nice pool, and I had visited the room, though my companion chose not to, circumspect where matters of theology are concerned. I found it interesting, but assumed that the place was designed to attract tourists, but the El Shinta programme disabused me of this notion.

No doubt there is an element of tradition to what we saw, and good for that. I’ve always had a soft spot for the Goddess since the glorious actress Susanna portrayed her in those old movies. But there is also undoubtedly more than a suggestion of lingering adherence to an older faith than that currently asserting itself with intolerant violence.

Once the bad guys have suppressed Ahmadiyah and further cowed the mainstream minority religions of Indonesia, surely such rites as took place on the West Java beach will be under threat from the creeps of the FPI/Front Pembela Islam.


Goddesses out!

An Islam that can accommodate Java’s ancient traditions is alien to their narrow minds, and I fear for the future of the island’s culture if fanaticism continues to rise unchecked. Will Java to itself be true?


57 Comments on “Old Traditions & Customs”

  1. avatar tomaculum says:

    Don’t worry, if Kanjeng Nyai Roro Kidul feels to be threatened, she will cause a giant Tsunami or at least she would send her army to kidnapp and punish many disbeliever. 🙂
    I worry if “kemben” or “kebaya” will be forbidden. They are aesthetically so sexy. 🙂

  2. avatar tomaculum says:

    And wait untill Nyai Blorong appears! She is imagined as one of the most mighty and cruel generals, she imagined as apart from her snake bottom – very sexy too.
    Btw: there are some versions of this legend. One of them says that the Queen is “Kanjeng Gusti Ratu Roro Kidul”, Nyai Roro Kidul is believed in this version to be one of her (KGRRK’s) minister. 🙂
    You see, eroticism was one component of the javanese culture without debasing women. The three was honored and respected, likewise frightened.

  3. avatar Geordie says:

    You see, eroticism was one component of the javanese culture without debasing women. The three was honored and respected, likewise frightened.

    Yep, Our Lass scares me…. and she’s only 5’2”.

  4. avatar timdog says:

    Ross – I share much of your concern for the fate of “old traditions” (and in the “Christianising” areas of eastern Indonesia too, by the way)…
    But I think the nitwits would have a very hard time eradicating these things altogether.

    Something to bear in mind – Ahmadiyya is not rooted in Indonesian soil; its followers are alone, isolaed and vulnerable. For the average Javanese person (even one with nothing whatsoever in common with the outlook of an FPI hoodlum) they are an irrelevent oddity whose fate is of no particular concern (this is NOT, I stress, an admirable situation; I am simply stating a fact). But were the loonies to attack something thoroughly, inately Javanese, and spiritually charged to boot, then all of the “old stuff” that still has a powerful hold on even outwardly “orthodox” Javanese Muslims would get rather stirred up I imagine…

    Also, bear in mind that while it’s easy to highlight something dramatic and obvious like the Nyai Loro Kidul veneration, “a suggestion of lingering adherence to an older faith” is utterly pervasive throughout much Indonesian Islam. The obsession with the graves of parents and ancestors is an absolute standard throughout Java, as is all that asking for forgiveness at Lebaran, and as is the business of pilgrimage to the tombs of semi-deified walis. This stuff is so pervasive that it is easy to see it as part of the orthodoxy; it is not; it is, if you really get down to it, thoroughly unIslamic, and very much a “lingering adherence” to something much older… No one will EVER remove these elements from Javanese Islam…

    Incidentally, I witnessed a thoroughly remarkable exmple of “lingering adherence” in Madura just four days ago and have just been informed by a friend there that I was on Madura Television last night – ah! celebrity at last! Some excitable young journalists with camcorders from the local station wanted Misterrrr Bule’s thoughts on this “unique ceremony” – much more interesting than the ceremony itself, obviously…

  5. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @ timdog

    What you described is Kejawen. It is what keep us Javanese united. Don’t you worry, FPI would not dare thread into these territory; otherwise they would lose their lifeline. FPI is much like Australia’s One Nation. The major parties bankrolled them from behind the scene.

  6. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Ross,

    You’ll really have to learn to read something other than a Bir Bintang bottle.

    The orthodox Muslims have been trying to sweep away Javanese customs now for what, um about 700 years ?!

    Have you heard of the Nahdlatul Ulama ?

    I mean, honestly Ross, points for trying, but seriously, can you try to gather just a few facts before touching the keyboards. More generally, can everyone see how teaching a few classes of English gives these people the idea (Ross) they know something ?

  7. avatar Ross says:

    Poor Achmad. Everybody else makes sensible observations but he has to revert to his innately bilious carping.
    My point, clear to all others, was that the centuries of erosion and/or suppression have not succeeeded.
    But we are now facing a more vicious assault- I say ‘we’ because the enemy is as much against Ahmadiyah, Protestants in Bekasi, Catholics in Tangerang and animists in the jungle as it is agianst Nyai Loro Kidul.

  8. avatar Shloka says:

    This goddess looks exactly like the goddesses I see in Indian mythological soaps or movies. Her coronet, her jewellery, her gold waistband, her outfit- all these would look perfect in any Indian mythological movie. The “Amar Chitra Katha”, which is a series of bestselling books dealing with Indian mythology, also depicts women dressing in these identical costumes.

    If anyone is familiar with Indian movies, they might notice that often the heroine appears to the hero in his dream as a heavenly nymph, and this is the kind of costume or even flowing hair she appears in. Very dumb scenes, but unfortunately pretty common in Indian movies, including regional Indian movies.

    Most ancient cultures or indeed most cultures who haven’t totally given up their ethnic costumes in favor of standard Westernwear or standard Islamic hijab have a distinct way of dressing. I’m sure an Egyptian girl who’s familiar with her Pharaohnic heritage will recognize the Pharoah’s distinct crown, striped headgear(nemes), and false beard anywhere she saw it. Same for a Greek girl who’s familiar with Ancient Greek costumes. Likewise, if this goddess came to life and auditioned for a part in an Indian mythological movie, I’m sure she’d be chosen to play the part in a flash, in the very costumes she’s wearing now.I don’t think the directors of Indian mythological soaps or the painters of books dealing with Indian mythology have familiarised themselves with depictions of goddesses in Indonesia, yet the style bears an uncanny resemblance.

    Even the picture of Rahwana in the opinion piece “Niwatakawaca, Rahwana, Cakil & Pasopati” by Purba Negoro would fit in perfectly in any Indian movie or play of Rahwana- there’s very little to no difference between the Ravanas I regularly see in Indian mythological movies, plays, and paintings and this Indonesian one!

  9. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Poor old Ross. Tries to dodge the point and think no-one will notice.

    As I said, do try to read a bit every now and then.

    More to the point, do you know where a guy could get the old Susanna movies on VCD or video ?

  10. avatar Ross says:

    Achmad, I did not miss the point, I made the point. Defence of Java’s heritage deserves better than your Hatfield and McCoy feuding approach to anything I may say.
    I might suggest the Pasar Baru or Tanah Abang dvd stalls, haven’t actually seached for Susanna there personally, but all kinds of old movies- though mostly dangdut – are on offer.

  11. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Ross,

    Here’s the para that should have been at the top of your article:

    Once the bad guys have suppressed Ahmadiyah and further cowed the mainstream minority religions of Indonesia, surely such rites as took place on the West Java beach will be under threat from the creeps of the FPI/Front Pembela Islam.

    An Islam that can accommodate Java’s ancient traditions is alien to their narrow minds, and I fear for the future of the island’s culture if fanaticism continues to rise unchecked. Will Java to itself be true?

    Long on anecdote, short on argument. You haven’t explained why the balance of the last 700 years might be tipping. You need a bit of help. I’ll pitch in:

    * religious orthodoxy as a reaction to the uncertainties of globalization.
    * Islamist pressure groups capturing democratic politics through lobbying.
    * Supposed apathy of the mainstream moderates.

    I don’t buy it. I don’t think so. Hardline Islam is just too much work for most Indonesians. Mostly, though, it’s just not enough fun. By all means, Ross, worry yourself about the fate of Indonesia, but it can take care of itself.

  12. avatar treespotter says:

    I was going to say things, but I won’t. Last time i called Ross an idiot i was banned from around here so i leave the ranting to Achmad.

    as always though, supremely amusing piece for its lack of total insight.

    Did you really, go to school at anytime at all or you just dream things up for a living like I do?

  13. avatar Peter says:

    Wow, having just spent two months in Jogja researching this very mythology, this might be the most interesting post on IM that I have ever read.

    One point of clarification: The “queen” of the south ocean is referred to as Gusti Kanjeng Ratu Kidul. There is also another figure called “Nyai (or Nyi) Roro Kidul”, and a third called “Mbok Roro Kidul”. The three are all distinct figures, so using “roro” or “Nyai/Nyi” when addressing Ratu Kidul would be in error.

    The issue of whether people praying to GKRK are doing something truly “Islamic” (what does that even mean?) is hard to determine. Some people pray to her, while others (most, in my experience) see her as an intermediary between themselves and God (Tuhan). Kind of like a member of God’s bureaucracy, so to speak. And this phenomenon is not only limited to Javanese people, Muslims, or even Indonesians for that matter. Malaysians have been known to come pray at the spot on Parangkusumo where Panembahan Senopati supposedly first met GK Ratu Kidul.

    From what I understand these sorts of practices have long been decried by the more radical elements in Indonesia. But, I would disagree with one poster who mentioned NU as one of the antagonistic parties. It would more likely be Muhammadiyah who would frown on this type of behavior.

  14. avatar Ross says:

    Achmad, I really don’t need help to project my argument, but thanks anyway for stating points so obvious hat the rest of posters left them unsaid.
    You may be right that Indonesians are too fun-loving to succumb to the rampant fanaticism we see everyhere, and indeed I hope you are right.
    But the craven surrender by the regime to the nutters who wanted Ahmdaiyah ‘frozen,’ the repeated and, more significantly, unpunished outrages by the FPI thugs, and the quivering excuses for lack of executon of the Bali Pigs makes me doubt that the good guys are winning.
    The PKS for example, had me thinking they were a realistic, pragmatic bunch, until I read the JP 18/8 and the quote from its Secretary General about how the sharia punishments would have to wait till things were more settled. Then the stoning and lopping could start.
    Maybe Java’s traditions are deep-rooted, and would survive a zealot regime, but I’d rather not have to find out. Not only kejawan but the rest of us would be tormented for thinking as we wish to think. Whether we call her Nyai or some other title, the Goddess represents a more charming face of these islands than Abu Bakr Bashir. Long may she reign.
    Oh yeah, the incoherent Tree-Thing has surfaced, his bark moldier than his bite, a little, his grammar awry as usual. His last triumph was identifying me as me, not a hard task for anyone who can read the ‘profile’ section. Perhaps Achmad could take him in hand for some creative writing practice, then get him a job as OB at the JP.

  15. avatar Rob says:

    Next target?

    Sounds like there is a grand plan in place…does this fit into the Southeast Asian Caliphate that some claim is the “grand plan”?

  16. avatar treespotter says:

    i hadn’t uncovered you at all Mr. Ross. I readed your profile. Makes as an interesting read. I would’ve loved to have the creative writing practice class school. Do i have to pay? Will that get me laid? Or is it just for the cool factor? Maybe also learn about the red menace? Do i get to invade countries?

    do let me know.

  17. avatar Gray says:

    Oh silly me, for a moment I thought the posts in this thread were actually supposed to be related to the posted article… Why don’t you guys go on MSN and IM each other instead of posting all your tawdry non-comments here.

  18. avatar Rob says:

    Ross…

    I read in your profile that you were a politician in a previous life to the one you have now in Jakarta.

    I did a google search but did not get the results that I was hoping for. Maybe it was the search terms that I used. Where were you a pollie? Assuming that the location is no big secret.

    Have a good weekend one and all.

  19. avatar barry prima says:

    Since the glorious actress Susanna portrayed her in those old movies.

    Short,fat,late 30’s/early 40’s something (when she made those movies)with a prominent mole on her face is your idea of glorious?
    You must have had some beautiful women in your time!

    Ross worries that the next target of Islamic fanatics will be old Javanese figures and traditions.

    Youre too late,the godess already converted to Islam hundreds of years ago,acording to almost every excisting tradition about her.

    This stuff is so pervasive that it is easy to see it as part of the orthodoxy; it is not; it is, if you really get down to it, thoroughly unIslamic, and very much a “lingering adherence” to something much older… No one will EVER remove these elements from Javanese Islam…

    I am quite partial to the sexy snake queen myself, (not as played by Suzzanna) but I fail to understand the rational behind the bizzare orientalist logic here.

    First of all you and TimDog (you must be wigger with a name like that) seem to suggesting that a belief in a half human /half snake nymph,is somehow something that must necessarily be preserved for the good of the javanese people but a belief in One god is not?

    Second you not only feel the need to tell the brown man what traditions he needs to preserve for his own good,but how he should understand and practise them?He obviously doesnt have the education to do it himself does he?

    Third by implication you are sugggesting: Its ok for roro kidul to terrorize/blackmail,cause tsunamis,drown innocent young men and then drain them of their virilty(although i can imagine how that could appeal to you)but its somehow wrong for Allah to do similiar things?

    No i hear you protest ,its a harmless myth,unlike ISlam which is a real and worldwide threat?

    It gets worse. So now the javanese people are really stupid. The whole idea of Roro Kidul is just another superstition that primitive man made up to rationalise,what at the time was unexplained naturual phenomena?

    Every which way, the Javanese loses?

    You come across as the worst sort of caricature from Edward Saids `orientalism’.

    What you described is Kejawen. It is what keep us Javanese united.

    Islam did not try to eradicate Kejawen,it merely transformed it .In fact it could be argued that it helped to preserve it but filtering out its more destructive traits.The main argument cited for the conversion of the javanese to Islam is because its mystical dimension conformed very closely to the sensibilities of the javanese.
    If you look at the classic text of javanese culture, Serat Centhini/Babad Tannah, Jawa they explain themselves as being Islamic first and Kejawen second.

    Kejawen is not what keeps the javanese united,if anything its their shared hatered of th Chinese,which usually is the one thing than can even transcend the chrisitan/muslim divide.

    Kejawen is not incompatible with islam ,unfortunately its a form of Islam you dont want to recognise or give validity to ,in the same way as the Wahhabis/fanatics/literalist..

    A suggestion of lingering adherence to an older faith” is utterly pervasive throughout much Indonesian Islam.

    And until recently in Morroco,pakistan,egypt,India and most notably and ironically in Iran (Shiasm is just a form of Iranian Islamic Nationalism).Perhaps the only country that has no or very little outwardly discernable pre islamic folk myths is Saudia Arabia.
    Even then if you look at the history of Saudia Arabia before the house of Saud,it was deemed (by the Sauds) as full of Superstition,especially in the area of Saint worship and Mystical practise that the javanese seem to excel in.

    In a matter of time ,the javanese will dispense with Roro Kidul just as the large majority of Englsih folks have dispensed with the pixies and at the bottom of the garden.Ultimately it will have very little to do with Islam.

  20. avatar barry prima says:

    More to the point, do you know where a guy could get the old Susanna movies on VCD or video ?

    You really have been outed by that statement>No indonesian/Javanese with a decent education (its too late for you deny that u have one )would like, or admit to liking those kind of movies.

    The only people who do are either :
    rhoma irma lookalikes or perverted/frustrated orientalist like our Rob.

  21. avatar Rob says:

    Barry…

    I have made two posts on this thread and none would evidence a perverted / frustrated orientalist streak…

    But whatever gets you going!

  22. avatar andrey says:

    I see that the author of this writing does not like to see muslims life according to their religion. when I see people like this, and also western newspapers, define moderate muslim (ie. “good” muslim) as someone who miss praying now and then, drink alcohol, wear revealing clothes etc, I remember this verse of the Qur’an:

    “And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion” Al Baqarah 217

    “Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.” Al Baqarah 120

    Certainly Ross et al will never be satisfied with us unless we follow their way of life.

    So God warned us about Ross 1400 years ago!

  23. avatar Ross says:

    Well, the tangents have been fun, but I agree we should stick to the original thread, which was the threat of fanaticism, in particular to Javanese beliefs.
    I’m afraid I foresee an action replay of Cromwell’s assault on Xmas, if the current trend continues. Old traditions are kept because people like them, but the FPI are kill-joys and they appear to be calling the shots. The suppression of fun during Ramadan is indicative of their view that they have a right to be miserable and a duty t o put the rest of us in the same condition.

    Andrey, I am honoured that God had me in his sights so long ago, but you miss the thrust of my concerns about current trends in Islam.
    If Muslim women wish to be one of four or more spouses while they do not have reciprocal rights to multiple marriage, okay, also if they wish to drape themselves head to toe, but they have no right to make others, Dewi Perssik or a waitress in Kemang, undergo the same inequitable treatment.

    And the same goes for fasting, etc. …of course you can say your prayers and go hungry if you like.
    But why should other people be denied the right to enjoy a night out? Muslims are gifted with free will and can walk past a warung or a bar or a nightclub, surely?
    There is no need for either the morons of the FPI or the appeasement-minded Jakarta Administration to close everything down for a month. That actually denies the devout the ability to discipline themselves, for if no fleshly pursuits are available, how can you show true grit by resisting them?

    And ..
    Sorry, Barry, I still think Susanna’s cute.

    Rob, I’d thought you more resourceful! If you purchase one of my delightful books, you should be able to figure out where some at least of my political activity took place.

  24. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Hi Ross — where can people get your books ?

    Titles ??

  25. avatar Lairedion says:

    Ross said:

    If Muslim women wish to be one of four or more spouses while they do not have reciprocal rights to multiple marriage, okay, also if they wish to drape themselves head to toe, but they have no right to make others, Dewi Perssik or a waitress in Kemang, undergo the same inequitable treatment.

    Muslims are gifted with free will and can walk past a warung or a bar or a nightclub, surely?

    There is no such thing as free will in Islam. It is the duty for all Muslims to check if their fellow Muslims are following the teachings of Islam (whatever the hell these are) and Indonesians are obsessed with their neighbour’s moral behaviour.

    To get back to the subject, Javanese traditions have been gradually fading away since our forefathers swapped their Shiva-Buddhism for Islam and submitted not only to Allah but also to the VOC and later the Dutch State. Javanese haven’t achieved anything significant ever since. We should be thankful to modern-day Balinese to preserve some of the great Majapahitan glory of the past.

  26. avatar barry prima says:

    I have made two posts on this thread and none would evidence a perverted / frustrated orientalist streak…

    You do not need to defend your self on that count, I was merely Jesting in a way that is consistent with the general polemic in these parts. At least their is no evidence of you being one of the oz paedophiles that Pak achmed warned us about.
    I would however, like to see you defend yourself against my other points.

    We should stick to the original thread, which was the threat of fanaticism, in particular to Javanese beliefs.

    And what about the threat of do gooder orientalist to another belief (ie islam)?

    Old traditions are kept because people like them

    And yes that includes Islam.

    The suppression of fun during Ramadan is indicative of their view that they have a right to be miserable and a duty to put the rest of us in the same condition.

    Suppression of what you describe as fun is not just contrary to Islam, but the sensibilities of every person of a religious persuasion.
    I doubt very much your observation about who is miserable and who isn’t is actually based on any kind of Reasoning, apart from your own definition of the term.

    That actually denies the devout the ability to discipline themselves, for if no fleshly pursuits are available, how can you show true grit by resisting them?

    If you limit your fleshly pursuits to flesh spots and nighclubs. Fasting is already hard enough, as arguably the majority of people do fast, then is only democratic if they they push for the removal of those temptations that make it harder.

    Principle number one of any democratic society:The will of the majority should be accepted by the minority.
    One of the guiding principles of any moral/religious system is that is that evil if done, should be done in privacy.
    The prophet did not say that one of the signs of the lasts days is the prevalence of adultery, but more precisely the open practise of it, without shame.

    True grit is sticking to your principles and faith in the absolute in the face of pressure/taunts/insults from the infidels. (I hope you can see the irony in my use of the word infidel)

    FPI are kill-joys

    Why do you keep on insisiting on scaremongering with the FPI, who as mas Lauang said are widely acknowledged by anyone who follows indonesian politics, as a bunch of street thugs created by a government on its last legs.

    It’s a bit like insisisting on defining/limiting god to an anthromorphic bearded guy sitting on a throne, simply because its an easy one to reject.

    Its weak and a convenient excuse to allow for the pushing of your own agenda by type of default argument.

    There is no such thing as free will in Islam. It is the duty for all Muslims to check if their fellow Muslims are following the teachings of Islam (whatever the hell these are).

    Lairedion: You should wear a turban, grow a goatee and join the FPI. You fit the profile to a T. In fact chances are, you are one.

    How about these Ayats:

    Their is no compulsion in religion
    And if you do any good it is only to your own selves, and if ye do any harm its is only to ones own self.

    Amazing how this forum is full of people who rail against the fanatic Islamist and then proceed to define Islam exactly in the same terms as they do.

    You need to keep emphasising a particular view of islam in order to give credibility to your own agenda, although you claim not to have one.

    We all have an agenda.

    Indonesians are obsessed with their neighbous moral behaviour.

    It’s worse when the do gooder anthropolgist, become obsessed by the moral behaviour of muslims, even in a country where they are the majority!

    Javanese havent achieved anything significant ever since.We should be thankful to modern-day Balinese to preserve some of the great Majapahitan glory of the past.

    What exactly has Bali achieved apart from a culture of superstition that can be sold successfully as a form of exotica to the western world? I have no propblem with the balinese or their culture, but if I limit my analysis of it in the way you do to islam, all I see is a culture of superstition in an island trapped in a vortex of dark forces. (Even Balinese believe this about their own island).

    A Balinese who leaves his tradition, is treated with as much hostility as a muslim who leaves Islam, especially if he leaves it for ISLAM. It’s even worse for him, he doesn’t just have to worry about humans, he also then has to worry about the countless demons who will want a revenge for his betrayal.

  27. avatar Rob says:

    Ross…

    I am ditto with Achmad on this. Reveal a little more as to where we can get these words of wisdom of yours…

    thanks

  28. avatar Shloka says:

    The Muslims have undoubtedly done a great service to Bali as they were selling their demon ridden culture as exotica- they rightly bombed them and scared the tourists off.

    And no wonder the Balinese dislike converts to Islam, like the Dutch the island of Bali has a significant population of Muslims. And just like non Muslim populations living with Muslims anywhere- they faced devastating bombings by bombers who claim their deeds were in the name of Allah.

    The Dutch had a very famous Muslim convert too- Muriel Degauque, who after becoming a Muslimah, tried to bomb Americans, and lest I forget a Richard Reid, famous as the British shoe bomber, another Bule convert to noble Islam.

    May the Balinese leave their demon ridden and superstitious culture behind and embrace Islam, after which they can see the “truth” like Degaque and Reid did. These two noble individuals left behind all superstition after embracing Islam, and realised killing infidels was the supreme noble duty. Bali hasn’t yet had a convert to Islam suicide bomber which is a real pity. Hope our next Balinese revert to Islam blows up a few Kaffir Americans, or better still a few apes and pigs a.k.a. Jews! 🙂

  29. avatar barry prima says:

    Shloka:

    Can you stop following me around. I find the combined odour of coconut oil and curry quite nauseating, especially combined as it is with the putrid stench of hate filled propaganda.

    Islam is your own personal demon and judging by every post you made it has consumed you wholly. Like all demons, they are only a product of your imagination, a demon can only affect those who believe in them.
    You a pitiful.

  30. avatar Wilson says:

    How could anyone possibly want to read anything written by Ross?

    He refers to gay English teachers as “deviant applicants”, and claims “it is a fact that homos are much more prone to child abuse than normals.”

    And check this out from Ross on the above post on pedophiles:

    ”Western cultural imperialism is trying to force its pro-queer attitude on Asian nations. Islam and Christianity and anybody with a sense of comon decency, should stand together on this issue.”

    How can this buffoon criticise Islamic fundamentalism, when, with views like this; he’d be right at home with the mullahs in Tehran.

    Btw Ross; common has two “m”s in it.

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