Purwakarta Church Burned Down

May 26th, 2008, in News, by

Church burning A church is burned down in Purwakarta, West Java by local people feeling slighted at the lack of response to their protests over its construction.

In Citeko village, Plered district, Purwakarta, West Java on 20th May a church run by the Abdi Karya Foundation (Yadika) was burned down in an attack by hundreds of local people.

The building had formerly been a tile factory and was in the final stages of being converted into a church. Local residents had repeatedly complained about the conversion of the building into a church, and Citeko village head Andri Yani said the building was supposed to have been turned into a school.

Initial reports said no arrests had been made l6, later reports state that four people are being questioned by police over the attack. jakartapost


102 Comments on “Purwakarta Church Burned Down”

  1. avatar Berlian Biru says:

    I enjoyed taking the mickey out of my Sundanese brother in law a while back. I pointed out that despite being one of the biggest ethnic groups in Indonesia no one ever hears much about the Sundanese, I mean not like the Javanese, or the Madurese, or the Bataks, or the Ambonese or the Balinese.

    He was suitably offended and pointed out that the Sundanese were a proud and pious people who had a strong sense of identity and independence, their Darul Islam movement in west Java caused problems for the Jakarta government well into the 1950’s.

    I didn’t take much heed of him but recent events are beginning to make me look at the Sundanese in a different light, when you hear of churches being ransacked or burnt or of Ahmadiya mosques and worshippers being attacked, where does it always seem to happen? West Java, added to this we see the imposition of Sharia-lite in Tangerang, then we had the recent surprise gubernatorial election victory of the PKS party in West Java.

    Should I be looking at my Sundanese relatives a little differently these days? Are we witnessing the birth of a mini Acheh? Or should I mind my own business and just keep my head down when I’m visiting the in laws in Bogor?

  2. avatar Deng Xiao Phing says:

    Javanese + muslim = AMOK capable, target chinese & minorities
    Sundanese + muslim = AMOK capable, target church & minorities (incl Ahmadiyah)
    Javanese + christian = PEACE society, very cooperative & friendly, a few become pastor / priest, involve in international churches missionary professionally
    Sundanese + christian = doesn’t exist, no data
    Balinese + Hindu = PEACE society, very cooperative & friendly
    Ambonese + Christian = PEACE society, very cooperative & friendly, church choir / pro singers
    Chinese + Christian = PEACE society, very cooperative & friendly, hard workers
    Chinese + Budhism = PEACE society, very cooperative & friendly, hard workers

    etc ..
    what is the problem with the muslim ideology ? it could be incompatible with our traditional value anymore ?

  3. avatar Lairedion says:

    Berlian Biru has a valid point. It’s obvious West Java has a intolerance problem. It has been addressed before on IM in several posts:

    Bandung Church Attack
    Bigotry in Bandung
    West Java’s Tolerance Problem
    Bethel Church, Bandung
    Preaching in Tasikmalaya
    Bogor Church Closed
    Two Churches “Sealed” In Bogor
    Impatient People
    Persecuted Church

    The Sundanese contribution to Indonesia is modest to say the least, being the second largest ethnic group. A lot of artists and a decent vice-president (Umar Wirahadikusumah) is all I can think of. And my lovely wife of course! 🙂

  4. avatar Martheen says:

    Um, sundanese+christian results in pretty good people too, just 2 add 🙂
    Muslim ideology is never compatible with any value who respect people regardless of their religion. for hardliner, they’re out to kill non-muslim. Those so called “moderate” just silently watch the slaughter.

  5. avatar Rob says:

    DXP…

    You really need to find a new tune because this racial profiling thing you do is old and it is offensive! To the vast majority that do not fit into your stereotypes…

    This is an issue of law enforcement. A permit would have been needed for a church to be built or a factory to be converted into a church. The law might not be fair because it makes it so much easier to build mosques than it does churches, but it it the law and it must be enforced. If people do not like the law then they should lobby to have it amended (likely to be an uphill struggle but such is the way in a democracy).

    The people that are responsible, must not only be detained and questioned, they must be arrested and prosecuted! Simple as that!

    Berlian Biru enjoys taking the piss out of family members, most of us do or have done so in the past. Nevertheless, there is a serious question being posed in his comments and that is whether or not there is an Islamization happening of West Java that is manifesting itself in random (perhaps managed) violence or is this something that has always latently been there since the 1950’s and the Darul Islam movement that had a stronghold in West Java?

    At least Berlian Biru has not seen the need to couch the arguments in terms of inferior DNA and a propensity to violence which I am sure will be forthcoming in your future rants on this topic (this is based on the racist rants that you have posted elsewhere on IM)…

    As I said DXP you need a new tune…if this was Indonesian Idol you would have been voted off long ago!

  6. avatar jaka says:

    DXP caught by the issues highlighted by IM and the press apparently, which made him incapable seeing how the christians, buddhists etc. can conduct their daily living and worship uninterrupted (even spread missions). Poor guy.

    I was in Unpad a year and saw a ‘silent fight’ among students between the traditionalists/western oriented (mostly artists and rock fans, funny eh, they can unite?) and the wahhabi-influenced ones (one of them even dare not to see girls, he kept his face down whenever must speak to students who happened to be girl). Usually, the traditionalists (which are muslims too, DXP) bent down and saying they tried to adjust the art according to islamic rules (which becomes stricter day by day, unfortunately). The western oriented (muslim too) were usually indifferent.

    Similar situation seemed to happen in Minangkabau society. We need more study on this subject, it appears. It is just observation.

  7. avatar jaka says:

    Oops I forget: OOT – where’s the “analysis” of Max Moein’s (MP) scandal? It is typical IM, isnt it? 😉 (Or he’d bribed you too?)

  8. avatar Hitam Tapi Cina says:

    DXP, Rob,

    DXP may sound racist, but Rob, you have to know that there are many historical truth behind DXP assumption.

    It is true, that it is all about law enforcement as it is always been since 1740 when the first riot against minority in Indonesia happened until May 98 riot.

    Rob, you would never know how it is to be intimidated and racially marginalized since you were born and unfortunately you never will.
    DXP anger would be more understandable to you if you have been one of us. And DXP is right to be angry because the Indonesian public expect minority Indonesian to play Jesus, forgive, don’t hate, don’t retaliate while the authority play with them.
    Tell you what, there are many poor minorities who will be happy to be paid to do anything in Indonesia and the time will come when counter terrorism against moslems will happen.

  9. avatar Enigmatic says:

    Let’s try burn down a mosque and see the response… Or just let it catch fire and melt to the ground or something…

    We can then count the number of people to arrest etc… To show the double standards in Indonesia

  10. avatar Deng Xiao Phing says:

    You really need to find a new tune because this racial profiling thing you do is old and it is offensive! To the vast majority that do not fit into your stereotypes…

    hello Rob,
    I pray if oneday muslim population will out number the atheist & christian population in Aussie … then let me hear what will you say Rob ?
    Why the Aussie immigration policy is tightening the belt for muslim immigrants while welcoming the ‘yellow asian’ immigrants ? why Rob ? if you continue to sing like that, you will be voted out in yourown home country … and it is silly Rob

  11. avatar Rob says:

    HTC…

    DXP might sound like a racist because he advocates the idea that Chinese Indonesian DNA is superior to that of Javanese DNA. In my mind, and I am sure in a lot of other minds, this makes him a racist. It makes him a budding little Hitler! I am sure that there are apologists that will argue for Hitler that “let’s face it there were some historical truthes in his assumptions”. HTC you are displaying yourself to be as equally misguided as DXP on this issue and how best to resolve it peacefully and harmoniously going forward.

    What you are advocating is revenge for the injustices you feel you have suffered since 1740. Revenge is not justice no matter how good it might make you feel fo get one back for the Chinese Indonesians of past, present and future.

    Is this a HTC prophecy or a veiled threat of violent revenge:

    Tell you what, there are many poor minorities who will be happy to be paid to do anything in Indonesia and the time will come when counter terrorism against moslems will happen

    I always get a good chuckle when you and your superior feeling friends trot out the line that “your white, how can you ever know what it is to be marginalized or intimidated?”

    Well HTC and DXP…I live in Indonesia and every single day of my existence is at the discretion of some pencil-necked bureaucratic wanna be important individual. I am discriminated against not only by Javanese but by every ethnic variant resident in Indonesia including the Chinese Indonesians. Yet, it is my choice to be here and this comes with the territory.

    HTC…you have abso-f*cking-lutely no idea what it is to be white as I have no idea what it is to be black Chinese. But I would never go as far to have patronized you with you cannot really understand because you are not one of us argument! The argument is weak and presupposes a monopoly on discrimination that just does not exist in Indonesia; every one is subject to discrimination at one point or another in their lives.

    Enigmatic…

    Double standards, without a doubt! If a mosque burned down there would be people arrested within minutes. I have regularly posted about this with regards to the non-existence of working law and order. Law enforcement is discretionary and that is wrong. I have also written about this double standard with regard to the Poso Three and the manner in which there execution was expedited and the government’s apparent lack of will to afford the Bali Bombers the same speed in the lead up to their executions. The Poso Three just did not get as many bites of the apple as the Bali Bombers have!

    DXP…

    You are a racist and you know it! I thought you were currently enjoying the hospitality of my fine country after having fled the violence and mayhem of Jakarta. So, where are you now? If you are in Australia then perhaps it is time you returned to your motherland and made a difference rather than bitch about Indonesia’s ills from afar.

    It seems strange that you would pray for such a thing. Are you truly that vengeful and is the God to which you pray that vengeful as well. You are only serving to prove my point; you are not interested in justice but rather you are motivated by rage, by hatred, by the need for revenge, rather than being motivated by the peaceful tachings of your Lord and God!

    DXP…I never claimed Australia to be perfect. Australia has racial, ethnicity, and multi-cultural issues to address. These racial problems are an undercurrent in the discourse amongst Australians and it is this undercurrent that allows us to elect someone like Pauline Hanson to the Federal Parliament.

    However, the discourse is open and transparent. An example of this is the to and fro of the debate on whether it was necessary to apologize to our indigenous brothers and sisters for past wrongs committed in a time when I was not even born. Thankfully, we reached a level of maturity to do that. It is worth noting that this took much longer than 10 years and there is still much that needs to be done before any declaration that justice has been served can be truthfully made!

    I think a tightening of Australia’s immigration policy is a legitimate public policy debate and all sides are entitled to contribute. I would hope this debate did not descend to the level of labeling all Muslims as having inferior DNA as being a reason to prevent them entry to Australia. You, on the other hand, DXP reside at this level of balming all Indonesia’s ills on issues of the inferior DNA of the majority Javanese population.

    You are plain and simple, a racist!

  12. avatar Mach Jabber says:

    What’s missing from incidents like these is the condemnation.

    I can assure you that the majority of Indonesian muslims don’t go around burning churces. Some do. Some *lucatics* do. But whenever it happens, I see little explicit disapprovals from the majority.

    Muslims, and their representative organizations, must speak out more— bolder and louder, against this kind of atrocity. Like how they condemn the Bali bombings.

  13. avatar Rob says:

    Mach Jabber…

    They do not, I agree! Even if it is a minority that do burn churches then there are still no arguments that it must be stopped. Yet, my take is that it needs to be stopped through greater and more effective law enforcement. The problem is that of perception (some will argue reality) that at least one group of people gets the privilege of operating outside of the confines of law enforcement.

    Yes, this is Indonesia and Indonesians need to take more responsibility for talking out against their own. There needs to be greater disowning of the violence and the death and the destruction that is being wrought in the name of religion.

    However, that said, I still do not believe that the line being advocated by commentators on this particular thread and some others in IM is conducive to reducing violence and finding tolerance. This is particularly the case for those that couch their arguments in terms of who has the superior DNA.

    Just my thoughts!

  14. avatar timdog says:

    Glorious sense coming from Rob…

    The standard response from many here to stories like this is the “It would be a different story if it was a mosque that was burnt down blahblahblahblahblah” line…
    These comments may be wrapped in a thin sheet of rhetorical irony, but many of them are only a breath away from being the frenzied howl for vengance and mob justice, for an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth that fuels the wretched communal blood-feuds of all the Posos of this world… not helpful at all… what a good thing that this is only the onanistic world of the internet and not the street…

    As soon as someone introduces DNA into an argument they instantly lose all credibility and ought to be left alone to make an absurd and obscene spectacle of themselves without being disturbed by real people…

  15. avatar Tony says:

    I lived in Bandung from 1995 to 2000 and it was not like this, however, I found that it was a much more fanatical place than Jakarta when it came to Islam. Indeed, there are Sunda Christians–there is a sizeable Sundanese Catholic community in Kuningan–the product of missionaries. Many Asian converts try to classify christianity into three groups, christian, catholic and protestant. The fact is Catholics are the original christians and then there are protestants (reformed followers of Martin Luther)–both groups are christians but they have different rituals. However, many converts around the world, especially in the east, dont know this and they dont care. After the fall of Soeharto, West Java fell into the hands of hard core muslims–the good party places closed and basic services have suffered (mainly trash pickup) all in the name of Islam–monies were diverted to build more pesantren and other “educational” type programs for future Abu Bakar Bashir wannabes. Another truth is, like it or not, without the chinese, the economy of Indonesia would collapse almost immediately.

    Church burning is disgusting, in fact burning anyplace of refuge and peace is disgusting, regardless of the religion. However, DXP has a point–at least in Indon–the only time you have this type of aggression is when you have large muslim communities with little or no education. I have traveled through Purwakarta many times and most of those people have only been taught to read the quran and that is it.

    It is interesting to see the comments of the white North Americans or even Australians on this site–you should be discriminated against because there has been no greater racists in history than white men. They committed genocide or attempted to commit genocide against the native americans (fact), the indians of South America (fact), the native people of Australia (fact) and the list goes on. So good, if some pencil neck is sweating you–this is his land NOT yours. Isn’t that what the whites in the USA like to tell the mexican immigrants–this is our land go home. Maybe you can learn something if you dont already know everything. 🙂

  16. avatar kiwibali says:

    It is interesting to see the comments of the white North Americans or even Australians on this site–you should be discriminated against because there has been no greater racists in history than white men. They committed genocide or attempted to commit genocide against the native americans (fact), the indians of South America (fact), the native people of Australia (fact) and the list goes on. So good, if some pencil neck is sweating you–this is his land NOT yours. Isn’t that what the whites in the USA like to tell the mexican immigrants–this is our land go home. Maybe you can learn something if you dont already know everything. 🙂

    the past is the past mate, lets move on. yes the whites have committed attrocities around the world, yes the whites are the first one if not the worst committers of hate crimes. but its all in the past (although some still happen). all races and civilization around the world have probably done brutal crimes in their early years, im preaty sure the Majapahit empire commited some god-awful hate crimes sometime during its expansion era. I mean we can still see the discrimination of the chinese and the non-muslim in Indonesia, arent we to stand in the same league as the whites in that sense?

    why cant the whites criticise the Indonesian current climates? arent we living in a globalize world? (some would argued that globalization itself are a product of the whites). the current situation Indonesia have the risk to blow out into a blown out war (with religion as the base of its reasoning). which why we need the global population to speak up, australia (a white country with predominantly christian population) are Indonesia’s neighbour, so if s**t goes down in Indonesia Australia will be in no doubt be affected. which is why they are interested in our domestic affair, they simply dont want an extremist (anti-white, anti- christian, anti-everything) camp brewing on their neighbour backyard.
    Now im not saying that there are no ‘hidden intention’ for the whites to be mingling in our domestic affairs, face it Indonesia are rich with natural resources! but with the current ethic and religious tensions (and war), i do hope that the international world (majority will be whites) wont simply ignore us. in all seriousness Indonesian are also responsible for the current situation. the whites wont be able to start a fire, if there are no kindling’s to be lit, and we provided those kindling’s.
    PS: i do aware of the conspiracy theory that “the whites started this whole ethnic and religious tension to break us up and steal our natural resources”. i am also open minded to a possibility of this (after all the CIA did support soeharto in his coup d’etat againts soekarno), im just starting to get sick of the ‘blame others attitude’.

    Church burning is disgusting, in fact burning anyplace of refuge and peace is disgusting, regardless of the religion. However, DXP has a point–at least in Indon–the only time you have this type of aggression is when you have large muslim communities with little or no education. I have traveled through Purwakarta many times and most of those people have only been taught to read the quran and that is it.

    agree education is the fundamental pilar of a great society and country. Education system need to be revamped and re-built. and bloody hell, are the government gonna do anything to stop this (hate crime)? they are to afraid to do anything, because they don’t want to alienate voters (majority Muslim).
    starting to doubt democracy. what is the good of democracy if the majority population will simply ignore the minority and force their values on us? what good is democracy if the are prepared to undermine, and vote on the bill RUU-APP, Pancasila? – i just read an article about the RUU-APP and the guy said if its passed minority should live with it, its ‘democracy’. i was ‘shocked’ when i read that.

  17. avatar Rob says:

    Tony…

    Unfortunately you misread my comments either intentionally or not but it does not matter! I did not take issue with DXP identifying a double standard in treatment of ceratin groups. I did however take issue with the reasoning and logic offered that it was a result of inferior Javanese DNA. But it seems that you agree with DXP on this front and perhaps that is the point of making the distinction between Catholics as the original Christians and everything else being fluff…sounds like the Pope to me and the idea that Protestant Churches are not real churches…

    Without the Chinese the Indonesian economy would collapse, really? Based on what figures…weren’t the Chinese Indonesians here in 1997 and 1998 when the economy collapsed. You sound like you have been reading too much of the Soeharto era race card that included statistics purporting to suggest that the Chinese Indonesians controlled 70%+ of the national economy. Maybe you should read some of the research of George Aditjondro which I think you will find that the Chinese were no doubt influential but not to the degree claimed.

    I guess the above point here is; with the Chinese the economy collapses and without the Chinese the economy collapses. In short the economy collapses!

    None of my posts defend Australia as being perfect. I think if you pulled your head out of the sand you would see that I make that very point. Yet, the argument that the greatest racists of all time are white men and therefore white men should get off their high horses and take racism as good as they have given it in the past. Is this truly a tit for tat argument. Are you suggesting that the revenge option that DXP espouses is the best way forward – to give as good as you got in the past?

    As for my pwn personal circumstances it was merely to highlight the foolishness of the argument you cannot possible know what it’s like because you are not one of us. I do not know your personal experiences in Bandung from 1995 – 2000 and I do not really give the proverbial in that sense. If some pencil neck bureaucrat is sweating me then I must be missing it. What I was talking about was discrimination and what I also said was that in spite of that I choose to be here. But alas there is much written here about the virtue of people and how one religion is better than another but the actions they seek to commit and the violence they seek to perpetuate against others can hardly be considered justice but rather revenge for past wrongs.

    Gandhi was right! An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind!

  18. avatar Deng Xiao Phing says:

    Well HTC and DXP…I live in Indonesia and every single day of my existence is at the discretion of some pencil-necked bureaucratic wanna be important individual. I am discriminated against not only by Javanese but by every ethnic variant resident in Indonesia including the Chinese Indonesians. Yet, it is my choice to be here and this comes with the territory.

    Rob, you are poor bule, it maybe you married with a Javanese local women or you maybe a Catholic missionary which are obliged to counter the ‘DNA’ things for your personal motives.
    If you are a Roman Catholic missionary living in Indon, we shall vote out your point of view, because we do not use bible as the standard measurement for our discussion here or if you are a husband of a Javanese women, certainly you feel offended with my remarks and that is consequence of joining to the internet discussion forum.

    We shall not dilute the fact against religion’s standard measurements or humanity’ standard measurement. In fact, there were a DNA professor in USA who made the similar claims about the superiority of white’ DNA against negro. That was controversial public statement which is again, his statement was purely based on technical argument which emotionless & out of the context of any standard humanity. Those 2 were never met in one intersection.

    Do you know, how many international patents / innovative breakthrough were invented by Javanese race in the world ?
    in contrast of,
    how many by the chinese race ?
    how many by the vietnamese race ?
    how many by the japanese race ?
    how many by the korean race ?
    etc …
    etc …
    You may hate my statement above, who pointed only the fact (emotionless) but a valid & true point

  19. avatar Berlian Biru says:

    “What’s missing from incidents like these is the condemnation.”

    I think that’s what gets to me too.

    I can fully understand nasty sh*t like this happening, believe me I come from a land where Friday night isn’t Friday night unless you’ve attacked a place of worship belonging to the ‘other lot’, so I can claim no moral superiority. However at least when it happens back home the first reaction of all reasonable local leaders is to condemn it in the strongest and most unequivocal terms, that might be like water off a duck’s back to the little hoods who are already storing up petrol and planning next weekend’s fun but it is still the right thing to do.

    So what bugs me here in Indonesia is the wall of absolute apathetic silence. My missus is a lovely woman, sharp and intelligent, she has friends of all races and religions in Indonesia, in the time I’ve known her I think I’ve seen her praying once and that was shortly before we got married so a fat lot of good that did her.

    However on the occasions when I’ve discussed this Ahmadiya/church burning business she shrugs and says no big deal, sure doesn’t everyone do it? When I point out that with the exception of the occasional inter communal violence in the outer islands it is actually not ‘everyone’ doing it but one very particular group doing it. She rejects this, I ask her to point out one solitary occasion in Java where Christian mobs attacked a mosque, loads of times she tells me. Changing the subject she assures me that Christians go to worship in malls because they like to go shopping afterwards, thus blithely ignoring the fact that the worship takes place at 6am in deserted, shuttered shopping malls.

    Believing as I do in maintaining domestic harmony (or at least saving the arguments for important occasions like when she finds the handphone number of “Fifi” in my back pocket after a night out in Blok M) I usually let the matter drop but I can’t help feeling that until we get to a stage where the critical mass of people in this country actually actively condemn this sort of thuggery then it will simply continue to grow.

    On that point I see an ad in today’s Jakarta Post which seems to announce a mass rally at Monas on Sunday in support of religious freedom and tolerance, it bears the signatures of many prominent Indonesians. We will see how many people actually turn up as opposed to the 10,000 I saw at Monas a month or so back supporting some Islamic Party or other, a peaceful enough bunch but given the number of pro Hamas and Hizbullah banners in the audience and the virulence of the speakers it was an uncomfortable reminder of what is lurking under the surface of an Indonesia we westerners rarely see.

  20. avatar Billitone says:

    Long time ago, my Christian sister in law asked me, a moslem, as to why some moslems were so violent and intolerance. Here, I added “some”, but she did not imply that.

    I did not and could not answer. Up until today, that question is still weighing on my mind. I still can not answer, but I understand that one gotta accept critics. Being down-to-earth instead of violent and intolerance is a lot better, if not a must. I don’t want to be a moderate moslem, simply because others are hardliners. I believe in what I believe, and consequently no harm to others should be done. What I believe in should not make me look down on others.

    Anyone who believes in God, knows that human starts with one. What others believe in is not for anyone else to judge.

    Hoping we all a better person day by day.

  21. avatar kiwibali says:

    still on the DNA rant DXP…..whao, you are one troublesome individual mate. it seems your view are deeply ingrained into your conscience, i dont think anything we say can fish that discrimination out of you. let me tell you a story that i have heard so many times;

    P1: i could never get a job in a chinese company
    P2: really?
    P1: yeah they always choose their own, the chinese
    P1: maybe its because they are more qualified than you?
    P2: yeah right, they just think they are more superior than us.
    P1: i somehow doubt that, they probably just offering the jobs to the person who is best qualified.
    P2: your to naive mate. they dont like us, they think they are god and we are just mere dogs, a no-good dogs. if there are two candidates with the same qualification; one chinese one pribumi, they will always choose the chinese. even if we have a slightly higher qualifications, they always hire the chinese over us.
    P1: somehow i doubt that.
    P2: just see around you mate, Chinese stick together. they hire their own and therefore lift their own out of poverty. and where are we? on the dumpster looking for scrap.

    i have encountered quite a few of similar conversation. up until know i still believe that it doesnt have anything to do with race, its purely economic. But the more i listen to DXP rant, i somehow starting to wonder if this is true? i do hope that DXP are the only one that feel the same thing.
    remember apartheid era in south Africa? the whites think they are superior and treat the blacks like crap. dont you think that such actions over times will lead to a massive riot and terrorist activities? would you like it the whites treat you the same way?
    now im not saying that terrorist action are acceptable, but by saying that one race is ‘superior’ that others, you are just asking for trouble?

    as for the USA DNA professor, what is the base of his claim?
    patents? – well the blacks oppression for the past century has created a great imbalance in-terms of education. there are proportionately more educated whites than blacks, of course they have less patents, they simply have no chances. as for the black africans; its about culture mate, read more about anthropology whites are culturaly have been preasure to be the best, while for africans is more about harmony and social relationship. so yeah whites might be more motivated, but they are not genetically smarter.

    you should hang with skinheads sometime aeh, see how they feel about chinese.

  22. avatar Rob says:

    DXP…

    Are you living in Indonesia? If you are why don’t you use this moral authority and superior DNA (based on patent applications) that you calim to have to do something about righting the wrongs you have endured?

    I am an Australian and proud to be so! Nope, not a Roman Catholic Missionary. Nope, not married to a Javeanese woman. I am married to an upstanding and outstanding Balinese Hindu woman of the Mengwi Kingdom.

    The recounting of my personal experience was to highlight that it is not just the poor little Chinese Indonesian minority that is subject to discrimination and racism, but as usual you missed the point because everythihg is always about you!

    Your remarks are indeed offensive! I am not offended in the way that you think I am because any valid points you make are undermined by the racist rhetoric in which they are encased. Is this a risk I take by joining an Internet forum that I have to endure the twisted, racist, bigoted world view espoused by you? Then this is a risk I am willing to assume. I am prepared to condemn that which is wrong. Burning places of worship is wrong! The promotion of revenge and violence against Javanese or Muslims is wrong. The burning and looting of private property is wrong (even your private property DXP, is wrong), turning a blind eye to the violence and racism that engulfs us is wrong! As a matter of fact DXP what you advocate is wrong!

    But let’s face it if white DNA is truly superior to Negro DNA how is it that the US has allowed a man with Kenyan DNA to reach the heights that he has and be in sight of one of the biggest political prize in the world, the White House? Perhaps we can now move on to how whites are conspiring to put a black man in the White House or is it the DNA superior Chinese (Indonesians) that have engineered Obama’s rise.

    DXP you’re a galah (you should know what that means with your superior DNA, knowledge, and intellect)!

  23. avatar Deng Xiao Phing says:

    that’s very predictable ‘typical reaction’. You may hate to hear & see the fact, but that is only your emotion. Your emotion will blind fold the reality, the more you do it, the more you behave like a terrorist who dreaming to be pempered with 7 virgins entering the heaven gate.

    Rob, I think you are Javanese who claim as orang bule, in anyway it doesn’t matter for me who you are, the truth will prevail, only certain loser people who continues to pretend they are the best majority in Indonesia while these group of race have nothing to say outside the boundary of Indonesia.

    The wise man say, ‘jangan cuma bisanya jadi jago kandang aja’, you can bully the Indon minorities in your home country, but until these race (now I hv to be more sensitive cannot name which race is that to accomodate your square view) can prove themself as a superior majority in the region or international stage, pls DO NOT pretend you are the best …

  24. avatar Deng Xiao Phing says:

    just see around you mate, Chinese stick together. they hire their own and therefore lift their own out of poverty. and where are we? on the dumpster looking for scrap.

    1. what is stopping you to do the same ? and prove it you can aleviate poverty first within your race then in the nation wide context ? still better than do nothing …
    2. pls check what are happening in other country, again outside Indon. I also see Aussie bule mingle around with Aussie, the American with american, the Lebanese immigrants with Lebanese immigrants in Aussie, in Singapore the hokkian mingle with hokkien because they are not able to speak cantonese – in this case is even worse that among the chinese there are grouping of circles … So, why do you see that is a problem ?
    Hi Kiwi, your paradigm that always demanding the chinese to do this to do that is the problem by itself , have you been visiting other country outside of Indon ?

  25. avatar Rob says:

    DXP…

    Typical reaction to what? Me telling you the truth is a typical reaction? My emotion to what? How am I behaving like a blindfolded terrorist? I always thought the virgins on offer numbered a lot more than 7!

    Definitely not Javanese. But you’re right it doesn’t matter.

    So, there are no Javanese that have made a name for themselves outside their own backyard? And the Chinese Indonesians, I assume based on this comment, are scattered throughout the world? Or are you claiming to be a part of the greater Chinese gene pool? And riding on the back of someone else’s success?

    I did not ask you to be more sensitive on my account. You want to espouse racist thoughts and beliefs here on IM and Patung is OK with that, then so be it! Go for it! I am a little more thick skinned than that.

    My square view? Not sure what you mean? If you mean that I accept difference, I am tolerant of other people’s views and when I disagree with those views I state my case, or that I do not accept your claim that you as a Chinese Indonesian have superior DNA to the Javanese people resident here, then yes, my view is square!

    I am not claiming to be the best or am I trying to pretend to be something I am not. I am merely disagreeing with your arguments, as are others on IM, and trying to make a case. Others may disagree with me and they are free to state their reasons in any manner they want!

    I would have hardly thought Indonesians or any ethnicity are being bullied in Australia. I understand some are in Villawood (some of my friends have done stints in Villawood) some for violations of Australia’s immigration laws and some for reasons altogether unclear. Yet, maybe if you asked around your Chinese Indonesian friends in Sydney you might learn a thing or two…alas it is you that is wearing the horse blinkers, and it is you that has the very narrow-world view, and it is your world that is filled with hatred and bigotry.

    It seems that it is you that does not want to hear the truth or face the facts.

  26. avatar djoko says:

    The main problem at the moment is in West Java. I’m not sure if this kind of thing happens as often in other parts of Indonesia, but I know for a fact that especially after the church bombings of 2000, the nahdiyyin from the NU usually get out every Christmas time to help look after churches and make sure there’s no troublemakers about. Of course outside of the press in Indonesia this is something you generally won’t hear about.

    One of my friends in a pesantren in Bandung has actually said as well that its one of the great ironies of the whole situation that the Sundanese were one of the last groups to eventually start to take on Islam, yet in the end they’ve become some of the most devoted, and certainly at times fanatical, in Indonesia.

  27. avatar rima says:

    I think DXP’s initial remark wasn’t really talking about DNA as much as about religions..
    but I do agree with Rob, there are no race with superior DNA. There are good and bad in every race, as there are in every religion – although in people with religions I find those who are not really religious as more peaceful and tolerant, but that’s just my experience, other people’s may be different.

  28. avatar kiwibali says:

    Hi Kiwi, your paradigm that always demanding the chinese to do this to do that is the problem by itself , have you been visiting other country outside of Indon ?

    brother in case your ‘high intellect’ haven’t realized why i put kiwibali as a user name; im just that a Balinese living in New Zealand (in which people here are called the kiwi’s). i’ve been to Australia aswell, so yeah i have been outside Indonesia. but i guess you think that im to ‘dumb’ to even live outside indonesia huh..:D. whao i must have been an anomaly in your whole DNA theory.

    pls check what are happening in other country, again outside Indon. I also see Aussie bule mingle around with Aussie, the American with american, the Lebanese immigrants with Lebanese immigrants in Aussie, in Singapore the hokkian mingle with hokkien because they are not able to speak cantonese – in this case is even worse that among the chinese there are grouping of circles … So, why do you see that is a problem ?

    yeah guess what i do noticed that, and guess what aswell the kiwi’s dont really like that. one of their quote is “they come here, but they don’t even try to integrate. they just create a mini society”.
    dude seriously, American is the most outgoing people i have known, they want to be involved to embrace and experience the national culture instead just ‘hangin with their own’. of course the also mingle with other Americans, usually when they feel homesick, but they don’t do so most of their time.
    based on my experience, and other also agree including my asian mates (chinese japanesse, koreans etc), ‘Asian hang together (usually the newly arrived one)’. to be honest Arab do hang with the kiwis, they’ll leave when alcohol is serve, but apart from than they do try to integrate.
    plz don’t use language as an excuse, when in Rome speak the Roman language (espcially if there are people around you who cant speak the same language as you). its about trust mate, how can you create a peaceful community when no one trust anyone? trust start with respect, communication is the first step to respect and language is the main driver of communication. every time im around fellow Indonesians, I’ll speak English. the only time i speak Indonesian is when there are only Indonesians in the vicinity. you need a crash course in respect 101 mate.
    how do you think the Chinese will feel if a million of Indonesian, moved to shanghai and dont ever bother to learn the language let alone integrate? discrimination, distrust, etc.
    one golden word INTEGRATE!

    1. what is stopping you to do the same ? and prove it you can aleviate poverty first within your race then in the nation wide context ? still better than do nothing …

    what is wrong? you are creating tension. What would happen if the 20% of the population is living it large, when the rest are living on an apple a day? South Africa came to mind. and how is that a nation wide contex? its an ethnic-Chinese context? you want to aleviate poverty in a nation wide context? start with respecting others mate.
    within your race huh, hahahah you just further proved how racist you are mate. and you complain when others discriminate you, classic. seriously if this is how all the chinese are feeling, which i HIGHLY DOUBT, then maybe you should leave, we dont need another bigot in the country.
    what stopping me? well for a start, i dont see race! everyone is equal. can you do that DXP?

    when did i demanded the Chinese to do this and that? i was talking about the whole entire population. stop thinking the world revolve around you mate, coz it doesnt!

  29. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Friend we should understand burden psychology behind DXP ranting, His TOKO KLONTHONG is so quite no more shopper because now everyone can open sweat shop and his bim salabim business during ORBA was death while going to other country is not good option because he is not rich as OM LIEM or Sukanto.

    DXP is “Jeruk makan Jeruk”, He has been trying to create havoc among his own community because He can not do it on us. He is man who capable to swallow his own brother alive, just typical Chinese gangster who make fortune upon misery of his own brother, he always try to scare all Chinese to leave Indonesia but not himself so he can buy belonging and properties of his own brother at bargain price.

    Btw we have to thank to DXP honesty in this matter because what he said could be representing deep inside unspeakable sense of most Chinese view toward Pribumi.

  30. avatar Rob says:

    Rima…

    Even if I felt like being generous to this DXP person, it must be noted that pretty much everything since has been about racial and DNA superiority. The Islamic faith just attaches itself to the racially and genetically inferior in the logic of DXP.

    Some of the stuff being espoused by this DXP commentator is just a small hop, skip, and a jump from being Hitlerish! One comment said there was a historical justification for DXP’s assumptions and positions. I would reckon if you asked a Hitler apologist or a holocaust denier you would hear similar justifications for the approach taken by the Nazis. Some of this stuff being written by DXP is as outrageous as it is offensive.

    I call it how I see it. If we are talking here about people not having the courage of their convictions to stand up to Church burners then we must not hold those who advocate similar revenge violence to a lower standard of condemnation. As I said previously the buring of any place of worship is wrong and must be condemned but so is the advocating of violence against others and this too must be condemned.

    Am I offended, not really, but I am going to call it as I see / read it…people want to disagree and rail on me, then go for it! I am a big fella and I can take as good as I give (and I have been pretty restrained so far)!

    In “Aus Speak”, DXP is a galah!

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