Bashir on Martyrs & Maggots
March 24th, 2008, in News, by PatungSome of Abu Bakar Bashir’s village musings have Australians upset.
An Australian student, Nathan Franklin, who is researching Islamic boarding schools in East Java, is said to have filmed a speech/sermon given by Abu Bakar Bashir on October 22nd 2007, in which the cleric rails against “infidel” tourists in Indonesia.
Toothy.
The story is all over the Australian media, and to a lesser extent, British, the Indonesian press don’t seem to have picked up on it as of writing.
Filthy Tourists
The sermon was hosted by the “Persatuan Pemuda Islam Pantura” (Java North Coast Islamic Youth Group) and given, it is said, near Amrozi’s home village (Tenggulun, Solokuro, Lamongan, East Java), and Bashir tells about 300 listeners that
[Non-Muslims are] Worms, snakes, maggots - those are animals that crawl. Take a look at Bali….those infidel tourists. They are naked.
Of tourists in East Java:
God willing, there are none here.
Signs should be put up warning tourists that they were entering a Muslim area - if the tourists failed to dress and behave appropriately
If there were infidels here, just beat them up. Do not tolerate them.
Bashir said that when he visited Australia he had wanted to visit a beach to see the
beauty of the ocean.
But a friend there warned him that
if you enter that area you must be completely naked
Martyrs
He encouraged young people in East Java to struggle for an early grave:
The youth movement here must aspire to a martyrdom death.
The young must be first at the front line - don’t hide at the back. You must be at the front, die as martyrs and all your sins will be forgiven. This is how to achieve forgiveness.
Video
Parts of the video of the speech will be shown on Friday at Charles Darwin University in Darwin, Australia. [1]
Tags: Abu Bakar Bashir, Amrozi, Australia, Bali, East Java, Islam, Islamic, Java, Lamongan, Muslim, Muslims, Sin, Tourist, Tourists, Youth
48 Comments on “Bashir on Martyrs & Maggots”
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Andrew Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 9:09 pmNevermind, he’s just a senile old person.
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diego Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 9:26 pmYes, nevermind about him, but what about hundreds of people whose mind he has corrupted? We should mind about them.
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tomaculum Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:50 pmI’m a non-moslem, so I am a worm? Or a snake? Or a maggot?
Hmmm, aren’t they all useful creatures created by his Allah?
Will Ba’asyir’s corps not be eliminated by worms and maggots? (I’m glad to liveoutwards, so I won’t have to eat this kind of corps
)
Or will he be mummified?
If he insults those creatures, isn’t it the same as if he insults his Allah?
Mr. Ba’asyir, you know the punishment for insulting Allah, don’t you? (or maybe he believes that he is something special, immune against Allahs law?) Assumed, that the statement above is true ….
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Lairedion Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 10:58 pmWhat could we expect? He is merely expressing what he’s taught to do by the Religion of Peace.
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RODNEY Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 11:00 pmIt seems strange to me, as an Australian ,that Indonesia allows and even promotes this kind of behaviour. While at the same time spending money on advertising Indonesia as a tourist destination. $1000000 spent on promoting tourism is all wasted by a few words from Abu Bakar Bashir. Indonesia belongs to Indonesians and we have no right to inflict our views upon them, nor do we have an obligation to travel there. They can run the country whichever way they see fit, but I think they could just save themselves the advertising money.
What does the average Indonesian think? I look forward to reading your comments (from a safe distance). -
Teng Says:
March 24th, 2008 at 11:33 pmHe encouraged young people in East Java to struggle for an early grave:
Too bad that old goat didn’t struggle for an early grave himself. The people of Eat-Java would be wise to beat Ba’asyir instead of innocent ‘infidels’ (calling peple with other beliefs ‘infidels’ is starting to piss me off to btw. So much for freedom of religion)
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lynn Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 6:07 amAnd my husband wants me to move to Indonesia? All the way from America? Yes, he does, but I won’t. And people like Abu Bakar Sashir is the reason why. As long as there are morons like him are running around, no non-muslim is safe! And I won’t go there… It’s a shame for my husband, because he really wants me to meet his mother, but I’d never feel safe…
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berlian biru Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 7:50 amAh for heaven’s sake don’t be so silly Lynn, you’ve a bigger chance of being killed in some drive by shooting or mowed down by a drunken driver in the US than you have of being within even a hundred miles of a terrorist attack during your visit to Indonesia. Come out here and meet your husband’s family I guarantee you’ll have a lovely time. If you were to judge nations on the basis of loony preachers then you’d get the hell out of the US if presidential candidate Obama’s mentor is anything to go by!
I’ve lived here for years and have never been treated with anything but the utmost friendliness and courtesy in all that time, I wish I could say that about my own native land. I feel a damn sight safer walking the streets of Jakarta after dark than I would in my own home town back in the UK.
Sheesh, if all Americans had been such panty waists the only things living west of Manhattan would be herds of buffalo and the continent of Europe would be lying prostrate beneath Fascist and Nazi terror.
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Rob Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 8:47 amTo write Abu Bakar Bashir off as just some senile, loony, old preacher seriously underestimates the man and his mission!
His has been a life-long struggle to create a Pan-Asian Caliphate and that does not disappear after a few years in jail.
Even if you were to write him of as a fringe radical or fundamentalist, the point by Diego is a relevant one. What about those people who become his followers? Whether he is the Spiritual Head of Jemaah Islamiyah or not is irrelevant in the big scheme of things just look at some of those who claim to be his followers (disciples) such as Amrozi, Samudra, and Ghufron…they are now sitting on death row for the evil that they perpetrated in killing the innocent. What this shows us is that you do not have to be a majority in order to wreak havoc and destruction.
I guess wide distribution of the video might have some people questioning whether Indonesia is safe to visit. This is in spite of a botched advertising campaign to attract tourists (different post). But Berlian Biru has a valid point too in that US citizens would not have to leave their own shores to hear racially motivated hate being spewed by some from the pulpit of their churches…I guess fundamentalist preachers are everywhere and spread across the religious divides.
I have been in Indonesia for going on 15 years and during that time I have never questioned my personal safety. It is a matter of common sense in that if you have concerns you then must be consciously aware of your surrounds. If you put yourself in harms way then harm is likely to find you. But this is true of all places throughout the world. I am sure that there are places that I might not want to be walking late at night in New York City, or London, or Sydney, or Islamabad, or Madrid…the list goes on doesn’t it?
Muslim or non-Muslim, when it is all said and done, bombs and bullets do not discriminate! Lynn, as a non-Muslim you will be as safe in Indonesia as you would be as a Muslim in the US. Hate is hate wherever it may be found but Indonesians are friendly and welcoming people so do not allow the few bad seeds that are in any population whether they be yellow, brown, white, black, red, green, or purple ruin an opportunity for your husband to visit with his mother!
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lynn Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 9:25 amMy husband can go home anytime and visit his mother and family! I’m not stopping him. But that doesn’t mean I have to go, does it? Look, I would really love to visit Indonesia, but it is the largest muslim country in the world, and I cannot help but feel a little apprehensive about going there. I know violence and ignorance is Everywhere, but I’ve never been called a maggot or a snake — even though that is my chinese zodiac sign — hehe, So that makes me feel threatened. I don’t know, I probably wont let it stop me from going one day. One day, that is…
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Rob Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 9:41 amLynn…
Indeed that is your choice and I can appreciate your apprehension even though I do not share the same apprehensions.
I hope that one day you do visit Indonesia because it is truly a wonderful place! I think the maggots and worms reference might offend some but as was pointed out by another commentator both of these are God’s creatures and both serve very useful purposes…Nah, this is not to say that I would be cool with being reincarnated as a maggot or a worm but if I put my mind to it I could probably come up with a less useful creature to be labeled as!
I guess my original point is that despite the rhetoric of some, Indonesia remains a safe place…do not have the statistical data on hand to back this next statement up but I would reckon there is as much chance, if not more, dying on the plane journey from the US to Indonesia as there is from being caught in a bomb blast in Indonesia.
That said, if you do not feel safe, then you do not feel safe. Travel when you feel safe you will enjoy it more than constantly looking over your shoulder!
Cheers…
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riyoz Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 9:44 amhmmm…there are lots and lots of clerics or ulamas in this country…and only one ba’asyir, and most of them don’t share ba’asyir’s views…so why set ba’asyir’s as the standard view? I think Mr. Franklin should talk to those other ulamas to have a more complete perspective….:)
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sputjam Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pmriyoz said-
hmmm…there are lots and lots of clerics or ulamas in this country…and only one ba’asyir, and most of them don’t share ba’asyir’s views
You should ask who are these ulamaks and where do they come from. were they appointed by God, or have been appointed to speak on behalf of God?
The truth is they are liars. And anyone who listens and follow their path, will ultimately be doomed in the next life.
Prophet Mohamed, a true muslim, never claimed to be a religious scholar, nor a religious leader. Nor abraham nor Jesus. They were messengers, who deliverd God’s messages. That is all.
God will give guidance to those who seek. You do not require imams or priest for advice. Common sense was instilled on most men, but they do not use it.
As for Lynn visiting Indonesia, forget about the towns and cities. Jakarta have some very upmarket malls, but look outside and poverty seems to surround it. Meet the mom-in-law in some tranquil resort island, like Bali or Lombok and stay within the resort if you feel uneasy.
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diego Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pmPlease make the copy of the full-length video available on the internet. Please. This will help more of us out there see / realize the ugliness of his mind and teaching.
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Pena Budaya Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 6:08 pmhmmm…there are lots and lots of clerics or ulamas in this country…and only one ba’asyir, and most of them don’t share ba’asyir’s views…so why set ba’asyir’s as the standard view? I think Mr. Franklin should talk to those other ulamas to have a more complete perspective….:)
That is because NO ulamas or clerics dare enough to say anything to against or strongly disagree with Ba’asyir’s views. No one! I don’t even think Gus Dur says anything to against him.
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Agusto Says:
March 25th, 2008 at 9:04 pmOh, this bashir, he is a role model for the true muslim. He is following in the footsteps of pedomoh, what could be holier than that? He is running for presidency in the upcoming election isn’t he? He is an insan for the shariah loving muslims, so you kuffar be ready to be dhimmitude!
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Mahmud Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 9:02 amDon’t pay much attention to what Abu Bakar Bashir says. As a Muslim, he does not have the right to call any living humans as a maggots or what ever. As I am a Muslim, the way I look at it, the Indonesian Ulamas are not a stable lot hence I don’t welcome nor want to listen to their ceramah. It is better for any Indonesian Ulama before saying anything in public or to the press, to examine themselves first.
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Riyoz Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 9:53 am“You should ask who are these ulamaks and where do they come from. were they appointed by God, or have been appointed to speak on behalf of God?
The truth is they are liars. And anyone who listens and follow their path, will ultimately be doomed in the next life.
Prophet Mohamed, a true muslim, never claimed to be a religious scholar, nor a religious leader. Nor abraham nor Jesus. They were messengers, who deliverd God’s messages. That is all.
Well, sputjam, we muslims don’t worship ulamas, thank you very much….ulama means ‘men of knowledge’ (ilmu = knowledge), and in this case knowledge in Islamic teachings or perhaps other scientific knowledge….and, frankly, I’ve never heard of any ulama who claimed that he was appointed by God or to speak on behalf of God….:) every muslim can and perhaps should, become an ulama thus have to study hard enough and gain as many knowledge as possible….and Prophet Muhammad SAW even encourages all muslims to “Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave .thus all muslims should do this….
God will give guidance to those who seek. You do not require imams or priest for advice. Common sense was instilled on most men, but they do not use it.”
That’s correct, God will give guidance to those who seek….and an ulama, imam or priest is just one of many medium to trigger a person to seek that guidance….:). And yes common sense is very important, and ulamas, imams and priests are normal human beings just like us, they are not faultless, and are prone to make mistakes and in Islam we have a right to warn them if they themselves deviate from the teachings of Islam.
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janma Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 10:07 amThat is because NO ulamas or clerics dare enough to say anything to against or strongly disagree with Ba’asyir’s views. No one! I don’t even think Gus Dur says anything to against him.
He is like God’s Mafia…… he kills infidels because it’s written that you should. How do the muslims argue with him? It’s written….
“Lobbest Thou the holy handgrenade of Medina at thy enemy, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.” -
Riyoz Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 10:21 am“That is because NO ulamas or clerics dare enough to say anything to against or strongly disagree with Ba’asyir’s views. No one! I don’t even think Gus Dur says anything to against him.”
Or is it because nobody’s publishing their statements or perhaps nobody’s even bother to ask them about it, Mr. franklin included….:)…lots of possibilities, you know…I haven’t seen the clip (haven’t download it) but I personally think that the use of harsh language in a religious sermon is counter productive…:)
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HItam TApi CIna Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 10:43 amLynn…
Take my word.
I am the type of person that Bashir hates the most. I have chink eyes, and Christian (the religion he hates the most). I have lived in the capital of the nation for almost all my life but I have travelled around. I have been intimidated and threatened by the majority all my life but still proud of who I am.Don’t believe if anyone says that Indonesia is safe. I am not saying it’s not safe all the time. Except for some part of Indonesia like Central Sulawesi and the Mollucas (Maluku), most of the time it’s safe to visit and it’s a very beautiful country. When I say safe means no one will throw rocks at you or hit you as such. Generally common Indonesian will be very friendly to visitors. And the food is yummy, you won’t find it anywhere in the world.
But I say it’s unsafe not only because there is always a threat of violence,
because at any time there will be disaster like earth quake, flooding, tsunami,
because at any time there will be diseases like malaria, dengue fever, tuberculosis, typhoid fever, hepatitis, SARS and bird flu (may be not SARS, sorry),
because at any time there will be plane crashes, ship sinking.If you keep an open ear and eye to what happen to Indonesia every year, you will see all those things and they will recur at any time without you knowing.
The sad thing is the government is very corrupt that they didn’t do much to prevent or manage them and the majority of people are too absorbed by their own poverty (physically, mentally) that they couldn’t do or say much.
If you think the beauty of Indonesia and the wonderful people and food worth coming to Indonesia but you are too terrified by the prospect of being bombed by terrorists (who may have been brainwashed by Bashir), avoid Bali, Java and the two areas I mentioned above. There are plenty of places to see and visit in Indonesia. For example, go and see the Komodo dragon in Komodo island before they extinct because the corrupt government let them die. Go to ‘flores island where they found the hobbit 2 years ago or go to Northern Sulawesi to an island called Bunaken which is considered one of the top ten diving sites in the world before pollution kills all the coral.
Forgive my cynicism but that is the truth about my poor Indonesia.
To my moderate and tolerant moslems neighbours, Bashir has broken the law by spreading hatred. One of you (not me, of course) has to lodge a class action law suit to Bashir because of this. Not only spreading hatred, he also has given Islam a bad name and that made him an infidel to Islam, too. Right? (sorry I take the last sentence back because I don’t know anything about condemning others for their religious practice)
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sputjam Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 11:13 amHitam tapi cina said-
But I say it’s unsafe not only because there is always a threat of violence,
because at any time there will be disaster like earth quake, flooding, tsunami,
because at any time there will be diseases like malaria, dengue fever, tuberculosis, typhoid fever, hepatitis, SARS and bird flu (may be not SARS, sorry),Most unfortunate that most deadly new strains of diseases seems to emerge from southern china, including bird flu and SARS.
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Mach Jabber Says:
March 26th, 2008 at 8:15 pmI don’t worry about the old goat. I worry about his fanboys.
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 12:40 pmRob said
Whether he is the Spiritual Head of Jemaah Islamiyah or not is irrelevant in the big scheme of things just look at some of those who claim to be his followers (disciples) such as Amrozi, Samudra, and Ghufron…they are now sitting on death row for the evil that they perpetrated in killing the innocent.
And still sitting… sitting… sitting… sitting… sitting… sitting…
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Anne Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 5:07 pmI can’t help to ignore the similarity
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Anne Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 5:08 pmhe looks like a llama !
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sputjam Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 8:03 pmDalai Llama?
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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 8:49 pm@ HItam TApi CIna
To my moderate and tolerant moslems neighbours, Bashir has broken the law by spreading hatred. One of you (not me, of course) has to lodge a class action law suit to Bashir because of this. Not only spreading hatred, he also has given Islam a bad name and that made him an infidel to Islam, too. Right? (sorry I take the last sentence back because I don’t know anything about condemning others for their religious practice)
I suggest you change your nick to CIna TApi BODoh.
You are condemning an innocent and honest Islamic scholar who is reciting from the holy quran. You are trying to cause confusion within our ummahs by pitching Muslims against Muslims. The only hatred that I can see is spewing out of your keyboard.
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jamis Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 9:01 pmI am the type of person that Bashir hates the most. I have chink eyes, and Christian
LOL, No, I’m the type of person he hates the most….an agnostic apostate….and if he would like, he may try and follow his own advise and try to enforce some sharia on me, and I’d bashir his head in.
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Agusto Says:
March 27th, 2008 at 9:32 pmMaasha Aulloh Jamis,
What have gotten into you, have you been watchin too much of those kafeer britney? You are a mourtadeen now? How did you be..be… become one? Even that great satanic Imam bush said : “islam is a religion of peace” and…and… imam blair said: ” islam is a religion ahead of our time”. Please revert before we track you down, it is not that difficult now adays no? Remember that shaahada you made!
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HItam TApi CIna Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 6:15 amAluang Anak Bayang says:
You are condemning an innocent and honest Islamic scholar who is reciting from the holy quran. You are trying to cause confusion within our ummahs by pitching Muslims against Muslims. The only hatred that I can see is spewing out of your keyboard.
I have no doubt he is honest and he has a devine ambition.
You are wrong to say he is innocent. He is NOT INNOCENT.He teaches moslems to be violent and to hate others especially infidels which in this case is tourists and may be non moslems. Not only it’s violating Indonesian law but also law of humanity that it is OK to assault and perhaps kill others.
As a human, I have no choice but to hate violence in any forms.
And YOU ARE AS CONFUSED AS BASHIR to condone and support violence.
I don’t think you know how it feels to have your own father killed, to see your house burned, to have your sister raped.My suggestion to you and Bashir, why not declare jihad to corruption in the government. The corrupt government is to blame for all the demise we have. I believe that I don’t have to tell you that it is the main cause of poverty and stupidity and vice versa.
Intellectuals like you, should not let yourselves absorbed in this type of fanatism and primordialism. Rather than fanning this blame game why don’t we all try to break this cycle of corruption-poverty and stupidity. You will all be martyrs and go to heaven if you can bring Indonesia to prosperity and out of stupidity.
BTW,
I think you are right. I am so stupid to waste my time writing in this stupid discussion as my fellow chink men would better work their heads off to stack up more money in their pockets. -
Janma Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 10:32 amI have this little skit in my head that stars Bashir….. He’s on a stage and lined up with him like a chorus line are all his boys dressed in those black outfits with the 3/4 length pants and the jubahs. The music to Village Peoples YMCA pipes in……
They start to dance, replete with jazz hands, the lot… a group of young Indonesian boys just coming out of the mosque, sajadars on shoulders find themselves surrounded..“Young man! Are you tired of the scouts!?
I said young man! Do you want to get out?
I said young man! We won’t knock you about
It’ll be OK, why worry!?
Young Man, you’ll be one of the gang,
I said young man, you’ll go out with a bang,
I said young man, you will soon get the hang of it,
It’s OK, why worry….(the youngsters from the mosque start nodding and smiling, whipping their sajadah’s around their heads in time to the music, trying a few dance steps….)
Young man, yes we kill infidels,
I said young man, and we do it well,
I said young man we will bend over backwards
To make you feel you’re wanted…In Al Qaeda everybody is your friend.
In Al Qaeda we’re all totally round the bend,
In Al Qaeda, we stick with you till the end
In Al Qaeda, In Al Qaeda.
In al Qaeda everybody goes to go to camp
In al Qaeda there is nothing like a frown
(all the young men smiling widely in a chorus line, kicking up their legs…)
In Al Qaeda grab your jubah, swing it round!
In Al Qaeda, In Al Qaeda…Young man, stop bumming around,
I said young man, if it’s God that you’ve found
I said young man, nows your time to go down
To your local branch and join us!
YOung man, stop looking behind,
I said young man, you know you’re going to find,
I said young man, you’re sure to feel fine
All those lovely girls in heaven…In Al Qaeda, you won’t be tying many knots,
In Al Qaeda you’ll be spilling blood a lot,
In Al Qaeda, you can give it your best shot
In Al Qaeda, In Al Qaeda.
In Al Qaeda the doors of heaven never shut
In Al Qaeda, never any if’s or buts,
In Al Qaeda, we are all a little nuts…
In Al Qaeda, In Al Qaeda….(boys clapping, bashir pointing uncle sam style while marching in time…)
We Want you! We Want You! We Want you as a new recruit!
We Want you! We Want You! We Want you as a new recruit! -
Riyoz Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 10:22 pmwow…you ought to make a clip for that song, janma…hehehehe
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Riyoz Says:
March 28th, 2008 at 10:38 pmo yeah….in case you don’t know, the CIA runs al-qaeda :)…read all about it here http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=+SC20050730&articleId=762….
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Lairedion Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 1:23 amJanma,
Simply brilliant!
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 3:45 pmJanma’s video clip is probably more effective than 100 Fitna movies.
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ramster Says:
March 30th, 2008 at 12:40 amCouldn’t agree more with Tom.
He is just an old man who gets cranky. And what about his followers you’d say?
Well now that’s a problem. -
dewaratugedeanom Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 3:22 pmAgusto said
What have gotten into you, have you been watchin too much of those kafeer britney? You are a mourtadeen now?
Not me. After seeing Britney without knickers I became a mujahideen. 70+ of this in Paradise finally pulled me over.
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Andrew Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 2:07 amA 15-minute “Fitna” sent most Indonesians on rage… but a Muslim cleric calling other religion followers “animal” all the time is perfectly fine.
Oh I forgot… nevermind the old goat.
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Janma Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:52 amNot me. After seeing Britney without knickers I became a mujahideen. 70+ of this in Paradise finally pulled me over.
If you think about the Math…. it’s not much chop really….. think of all the good muslims going to heaven…… lets say for arguments sake, around 10 million to date….. and there are only 72 ‘virgins’…….. how much action do you think they are going to get really?
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Cukurungan Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 11:42 amDear Bu Janma,
If you do not mind, I would like to propose your song to become an official theme song of Al-Qaeda. I believe that OBL would happyly to accept your song and the reward for yourself would be very incredible and it is not your dream anymore that OBL could ask you to become one of his concubines and the glory will soon come to you because you may become a legend mother who give pregnancy to the best warrior on the earth
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 12:26 pm….. and there are only 72 ‘virgins’……..
Janma, you as an accomplished midwife should certainly know all the tricks in the book. Hot milk and so…
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Cukurungan Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:50 amOh, this bashir, he is a role model for the true muslim. He is following in the footsteps of pedomoh, what could be holier than that?
Sorry in my opinion Bashir is not so holly because there is still many other religion role model much holier than him as below:
http://heartlandvalues.blogspot.com/2000/06/never-ending-chronicle-of-church.html -
jawa.apostate Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:02 pmDude, guys, people… don’t be so hard on him. He’s just confused, he likes himself and what he believes in - and he ain’t got no friend, so he’s trying to find some. And when he does that, he didn’t realize that he only makes clown of himself.
And andrew got the point, a 15 min movie (or a cartoon, or anything) that (as they call it) “blasphemous” will set the moslem world on fire, buy NOT when THEY themselves start the fire (like this beard guy) so, in Indonesia probably more than 80% of the people are moslem and most of them don’t even understand the “content” of their holy book, they know how to read it in arab, but not the whole meaning. My dad’s one of them.
I studied the book myself and found difficulties to “follow the story” or even get a grasp of what the book was talking about, no story line / clear guidance whatsoever. So if those people are confused then I hope we can understand them.
And why doesn’t baasyir get sued? I think the people he ‘criticized’ especially christians (probably chinese ethnics also and all the rest of it) in indonesia, chose to (and have always done so) to forgive, let go and let him have whatever he wants to say. Just like giving your left cheek when slap on the right (not too good with scriptures).
I hope for peace in my country.
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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm@ jawa.apostate
I have not heard of Javanese apostating, nor I believe they will be any. If you are really an Indonesian Muslim and a Javanese, why would you apostate when most of the tenets of True Islam do not apply to Javanese. Care to elaborate more?
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~Retired Miss Indo 07~ Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 2:07 pmIs his teeth real??
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jawa.apostate Says:
April 8th, 2008 at 6:42 pm–> Aluang Anak Bayang
Thank you, and I guess I will.
First of all I take the meaning of “apostate” as someone who left his religion.I AM a Javanese (really if you meet me you’ll know right away), my mom was a Javanese and so was my dad. But they had different faith; dad’s a Moslem and Mom’s a Pentecost Christian. So as a child I was confused, I liked dad cause he gave me so much (money and all), while mom was the type that kept silent all the time almost seem to let things happen. And I had no religion until I was 17.
Then the problem with me being a Moslem was: I actually READ through the whole book. Most of my friends who were really good and cool-down Moslems never really “study” the book, as to study means to read it in Indonesian and thoroughly read the content. They prefer to read in Arabic (said it was better to do so?), only listens to preachings (which were great sometimes but also can be dangerous when people like Baashir are speaking) but never really knew what the book contains. They only know that to read it in Arabic was soothing; I know, it reading it sounds great. But do they know what they’re saying?
Also looking at how Moslems react to things, I’m sorry to say this but those who claimed to be “true” Moslem would react almost always aggressively and violently while all the other who are not that radical are saying “those violent guys are not real moslems” And sorry to say again, after reading the book; I believe in the first.
I am probably a different breed of Javanese, I don’t just listen to my parents when they tell me to do something, rather I’d ask “why?”. I am a Javanese who broke the tradition of being too-obedience-just-do-it-I-tell-you-it’s-true kind of Javanese and took the risk to open myself to all other faith (and atheism). I’ve studied New Age, read through the whole Bible and Koran and learned The Law of Attraction.
I think religion seem to be the problem of this world, of only everyone just be nice to one another and to the nature (without religious attributes and mumbo jumbo), the world could have been a better place to live.
(please guys don’t get offended, it’s just a personal opinion)
I STILL hope for peace in my country.
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Mach Jabber Says:
April 10th, 2008 at 3:16 amBashir for president!
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