Airline Blacklist

Feb 18th, 2008, in News, by

The EU airline blacklist and whether President Yudhoyono will visit the Netherlands.

A story from "De Volkskrant", 13th February 2008, a Dutch daily newspaper:

Indonesia cancels state visit

Amsterdam - Indonesian authorities have cancelled preparations of a state visit by president Yudhoyono to the Netherlands because the national airline Garuda is not allowed to land on Schiphol Airport. This was stated by a spokesman of the Indonesian Embassy in The Hague last Tuesday (12 February 2008).

While the proposed state visit hadn't been officially announced yet, Yudhoyono was scheduled to visit the Netherlands in April 2008.

Indonesian airlines are blacklisted in the European Union because of insufficient aircraft maintenance standards. According to the spokesman of the embassy people are working hard to find a solution to the problem (of the blacklist). Yudhoyono insisted on arriving with Garuda to the Netherlands. This surely won't happen before next summer. volkskrant.nl


26 Comments on “Airline Blacklist”

  1. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Since Holland have barred Garuda frm flying, I am sure if SBY is persistant enough he could have taken another airline and enter into talks with them to get Garuda’s status restored by proving evidential proof of maintenance and upkeep they flyable state of Garuda. Another is that to get SBY to lodge a formal protest, since they have apologize, seeking compensation for her people who have suffered discriminations, abuse and ill treatment during their occupqtioan. I deem it to be a good opportunity to get even with Holland.

    Turning down the state visit doesn’t solve the problem. Insist on getting there. Get some of the major problems that had surrounded Indonesia for decades and solve it once and for all. What the Dutch have done so far is not good enough. I guess.

  2. avatar Teng says:

    What the Dutch have done so far is not good enough. I guess.

    I do agree with this. I myself am rather sickened with my governments actions (or lack of it) towards Indonesia. I am mildly positive that foreigner minister Bot at least has apologized for some of Dutch actions, but I agree it’s not enough. The Dutch people and government did give a big amount of money for the tsunami though.. sometimes I wonder if this is sort of a “hidden” way of compensating.

    My question to you is how would you think Holland should compensate? Will money sent solve problems? Personally I think it would a good idea if Holland would supply knowledge and material about watermanagement for instance. The dutch are great at it, and Indonesia could us it I think. That way Holland can at least compensate a bit, Indonesia can benefit, and relations can be restored.

    Just my two cents 🙂

  3. avatar Lairedion says:

    Holland didn’t blacklist Garuda, the EU did and the Dutchies are bound to it. One can discuss about Dutch apologies and perhaps compensations but that’s not the issue here.

    Singapore Airlines, KLM and Malaysia Airlines are making money with flying Indonesian and European passengers, the Amsterdam-Jakarta route is very lucrative and Indonesian airlines and economy are missing out on this. Lately Garuda’s reputation has been somewhat questionable to say the least. Besides alleged poor maintenance standards the Munir murder case and the Yogya crash haven’t done any good either. So it’s up to Garuda to clean up their act. For some apparent reason Dutch tourists are favoring Garuda when flying to Indonesia so take advantage of it.

    This is all quite embarassing for Indonesia as they cannot land anywhere in the EU. What if SBY wants to visit the UK, France or Germany, countries far more important than the former coloniser?

  4. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Personally from my point of view.

    1. The Dutch should send in a team to provide educational programmes to Indonesian.
    2. Be proactive in getting those who were being discriminated, abused and have been segregated into hard labor before.
    3. The Dutch should provide facilities, ammenities to the people of Indonesia. These comprise of educational funds, facilities, repairs, scholarships, exchange programmes, internships, medical facilities etc.

    They should cover most of the compensation, because unless you were the victims, no money will be accounted for as they won’t budge into such monetary demands except to those who have been proven a victims or decendants of such atrocities before.

    Since Holland is part of the EU then 1 voice is enough to show the dissent.

    Indonesia government needs to go ahead with SBY’s trip by taking another airline and put forward what is deemed necessary for the country’s reputation.

    The Indonesian Government should make sure that Garuda be revamp in a total rehab by bringing in more foreign crews for flying aircraft, crews for service, crews for repairs and maintenance.
    Pilots, crews and repair crews should be further trained side by side these foreigners. Untila certain standard of achievements were attained then they could let the foreigners go. But first you have to show people that you are really for serious changes. If that means Garuda have to run in a loss. Don’t forget Garuda have been running is deep loss before the sanction so to preserve the national carrier status you have to do everything in within the jursidiction of the President to ensure Garuda do not fall. If necessary consolidate all the local carriers. Indonesia still flies to many countries with the exception that when someone flies the airline they tend to have the errie feelings.

    Such brain damage are a collateral loss for both the country and the people.

    BRING IN FOREIGN PILOT. BUT BEFORE THAT BRING IN MAINTENANCE CREWS ABROAD AND MAKE THE CERTIFY THESE AIRCRAFTS ARE WORTHY CRAFT. THEN IMPROVES ON THE SERVICE. PROVIDE THE BEST NOT THE CHEAPEST. SIA DID THAT FROM THE BEGINNING AND LATER STREAMLINE THE FOREIGNERS AND TOOK IN MORE ASIAN PILOTS.

    The reason they are successful is that they care. So why don’t Garuda do the same.

    Let those foreigner maintenance crews tell the world that Garuda had recovered from a serious illness and is ready to do the job.

    Then marketing. Go cheap but pack these aircraft with commuters. Slowly increase the price.

    One thing I notice at the airport many of the counter sales personnel as well as those working with the airline in cargo areas have one thing in common. Corrupt. They need double scrutiny. Not double jeopardy.

  5. avatar Oigal says:

    SBY to lodge a formal protest, since they have apologize, seeking compensation for her people

    The Dutch should send in a team to provide educational programmes to Indonesian.

    It’s interesting to note those comments and the others, they actually reflect the issues facing Indonesia. There is a problem, blame someone else and stick the hand out for welfare but whatever you don’t address the issues internally.

    Problem is, despite what we may want to believe, in the big bad world nobody gives a toss about Indonesia (or any other country) unless it is in their national interest to do so. At the moment, in the eyes of the average Joe public, Indonesia remains a rather exotic place with cute dancers, bombers and Muslims burning churches with a heavy dose of curruption thrown in, nothing more, nothing less. Be that fair or not that is the perception.

    Indonesia can huff and puff about how much the Dutch or the world owes her but all the time the rest of the world (Korea, China, Vietnam) is moving on. Garuda, Pertamina, etc, etc are no different to any number of other national companies, plagued with poor management, treated as cash cow by various sleazy, corrupt officials and this has nothing to do with the rest of the world.

    Until Indonesia really makes a commitment to education and ethics nothing will change and the rest of the world doesn’t care. Oh they may drop in a pcik up a few barrels of oil, coal, wood but once that is gone it will by “Thanks and see ya suckers” and the moaner and groaners can shout “its not fair” all day and all night .

    Its been 60 years, perhaps time to stop looking to blame someone else and start to look inward. Garuda would be a good place to start, international management, with intenrational standard KPI’s external (Outside Indonesia) audits, use Garuda to set the standard of complaince going forward. Other national companies that do not meet the ongoing standard set by the New Garuda have their management replaced until such time as they can.

    Of course that would losing face for some , so perhaps its better to continue to have a sub standard National Airline than to lose face?

  6. avatar Janma says:

    So the president has to fly a commercial airliner??? Don’t they have government or other planes?

  7. avatar Sputjam says:

    If SBY wants, he can use one of Indonesian made CN-235 aircraft, designed in spain by CASA. Malaysia, Pakistan and probably Thai airforce uses one of these Indonesian made aircraft for their military transport. It may take more than 24 hours to reach europe as the aircraft is a four engine turbo-prop, with frequent stopovers.
    Or charter a lion air brand new next-gen 737-900’s, which they have ordered between 30-50 jets.

    As for GARUDA, best to sell of the airline. Come 2009, ASEAN open air policy comes in force, allowing ASEAN airlines to fly and operate from any ASEAN destination. GARUDA can use singapore as its main ops centre if it wants to and fly anywhere in asean from there. SIA can also do the same in Jakarta, if they want to.

    For European/US airlines, they can buy GARUDA now, when its cheap, use it as a regional subsdiary for connections anywhere in ASEAN. KLM will be a good bet.

    Indonesia was the first/ together with the phillipines/Thailand to initiate deregulation of their domestic air routes. But these low cost airlines failed to embrace the internet like Malaysia’s air asia, which is now dominant, with 175 new airbuses delivered or on order, and subsidiaries in thailand, Indonesia and vietnam.

    Which now brings us to another topic. Is air asia an airline company or a internet company? If amazon was categorised as an IT in the US although it retails books and CD’s on internet, then air asia should be categorised in similar light. Browse air asia web page and you will notice that there is option to communicate in several ASEAN languages including mandarin and english. maybe 95% of their sales is through the internet, whereby their ticket sales is paid in advance minus any marketing fees paid to cumbersome ticketng agents, who then withhold payments for normal airlines. If they require extra cash, just advetise cheap rates for flights several months in advance instead of having to borrow from the banks. Saves on interest payments, borrowing fees plus legal expenses. It will be interesting to see how lion air and air asia competes in the ASEAN open skies.

    Coming back to SBY, just for reference, malaysia has three (FALCON JET/BEOING 737 business jet/just delivered airbus A319) plane for official use, all under the ownership of the govenrment airplane leasing arm, and a Fokker F28 jet for military eites use under their airforce. Why not purchase a jet for official business

  8. avatar Lairedion says:

    Sputjam, do you want to fly with a CN-235 to Holland? These planes are nice for Jakarta-Bandung shuttle services (I used to fly these frequently) and domestic short distance routes. Your option of chartering a Boeing 737-900NG ER sounds better. Problem is currently all Indonesian airlines are banned, even Lion Air with its brand new B737’s. 😕

    Sputjam’s view is spot on. However, emotions and feelings of nationalism are high when it comes to flag carriers. Almost all countries in the world have designated flag carriers (with the exception of the USA). The KLM was called “Our National Pride” for a long time but now they’re part of the Air France conglomerate. Still the national airline but not in our possession anymore. Personally I couldn’t care less. Nationalistic sentiments are hindering global aviaton business. Travellers are interested in safety, on-time performances and service value for money. You can support your national airline and subsequently contributing to your own economy but if your safety and service records are way below compared to other airlines you’re losing it.

    Sell Garuda to an European partner, the best option is Air France-KLM group because the Dutch market is still attractive for Indonesian tourism. Air France-KLM together have a very dense European and global network, excellent maintenance facilities and have continued to perform well since their merger despite the SARS crisis and the Iraq war. Furthermore they’re on the verge to buy ailing Italian airline Alitalia. British Airways and Lufthansa are not performing that well. Air France-KLM can inject millions of dollars into Garuda, Garuda can continue under their own name and code-share with Air France, KLM and Alitalia on intercontinental routes to Paris, Amsterdam and Rome. An option could be splitting daily Amsterdam-Jakarta-Denpasar services with KLM. There’s nothing wrong with the brand name itself. Garuda can enjoy the facilities and knowledge of Air France-KLM to upgrade its own standards. Air France-KLM on the other hand can use Garuda’s domestic network to boost Indonesian tourism by offering virtually any major Indonesian destination to the European market. This will make it easier for Garuda as a full service airline to compete with Air Asia and Lion Air. I think this option benefits all countries and parties.

    If Garuda is to be sold maybe SBY or his successor can buy one of Garuda’s 747-400 or
    A330, refurbish it and use it for state activities. Strong rules need to be applied here. Any corrupt state official or politician abusing the state aircrafts for personal business deserves the bullet 🙂 .

    I’m not a big Jusuf Kalla fan but I agree with his views as expressed in this interview:

    http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1124620.php

    Oigal is right. Indonesia needs to move forward. I do think the Netherlands should apologize and acknowledge 17 August 1945 as Indepedence Day. Compensation payments for what? You might as well sue the royal Javanese families of radens for collaborating with and selling out its people to the VOC. All Asian nations are looking forward but some Indonesians are still blaiming others while the country is under the threat of falling backwards due to the growing influence of Wahhabi style Islam and huge enviromental issues.

  9. avatar Odinius says:

    Garuda actually improved its maintenance stands quite a bit last year. EU is just slow on the draw in reinstating the airline.

    I flew Lion Air to Kalimantan, and Batavia back to Cengkareng. Someone had written “Lion Air seperti kopaja” on the emergency card. That was about right, but then Batavia–with its poorly fixed up 25 year old 737–is more like a bajaj.

    Indonesia needs more regulations in its domestic airline industry.

  10. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Without looking what was behind Indonesia, you will not be in any way looking any where else, not even forward.

    This blame was set for as long as when was that. Nothing creative was set forth the remedy hence the requirement to reind them of their commitments.

    Compensation may come in different forms but first the educational rehab, scholarships, exchange programme, amenities and educational facilities.

    Whether they are royal buff or not it has never been done.

    One word, can I go around asking your family members to labor camp and paying you nothing and later when your are no longer needed I will get someone to kill you, then I say I am sorry, Is that acceptable?

    I sure understand that many were talk only like every nation in asia is looking forward and Indonesia is still looking backward kind of stuff.

    I can bet that you do not understand psychology and human resources. When it comes to national pride , a country’s leader should seek all avenue to have that redeemed with regardless what and when they happened. Otherwise Indonesia will be looked upon as a sucker in the making.

    People like to forget or tends to forget, but Indonesia had gone through so much needs them to remember.

    it is not about hatred because what was done cannot be undone but they have to make certain remedy to ensure that they have the sincerity to repent what their predecessors had done.

  11. avatar Lairedion says:

    What’s the matter with you dragonwall?

    In all your recent comments towards me I sense some kind of aggression and hatred. It started with the Israel-Palestinian issue and now on the Airline Blacklist and Sharia bye-laws threads. Is it because I have some Dutch ancestry? If you’re having issues with me please mail me at ibandayak@hotmail.com. I will tell the full story about my Indonesian heritage and family history about atrocities by the Dutch and Japanese fair and square and I get to learn your story. One thing I can assure you, you will re-think and regret your statements about labor camps because that was not a sensible thing to say.

  12. avatar Odinius says:

    Lairedion: are you iban?

  13. avatar Lairedion says:

    No, but I have an Iban sister-in-law. She’s close from the border with Malaysia in Kalbar.

    I took this address some years ago because I was interested in Iban tattooing skills and history and traditional tattooing in general (Mentawai and various Pacific Islander styles).

    Me, I am Dutch (mother) and Manadonese-Javanese (father) with Dutch citizenship.

    You, if I’m correct, American of Swedish descent?

  14. avatar Dragonwall says:

    What’s the matter with you dragonwall?

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with me but I am merely commenting on what I see in those postings.

    In all your recent comments towards me I sense some kind of aggression and hatred.

    Then you are not mature enough to have such senses. Can you give me a reason why I should?

    It started with the Israel-Palestinian issue and now on the Airline Blacklist and Sharia bye-laws threads.

    What about the Airline Blacklist and Sharia by-laws? I didn’t sense anything wrong. as for the Israel-Palestinian debate I think you were provided with history that you didn’t much acquire in your comments.
    Or perhaps you were still thinking that I am anti-Islam?

    Is it because I have some Dutch ancestry? If you’re having issues with me please mail me at ibandayak@hotmail.com.

    As to your ancestry, I think that does not interest me at all because I base my comments on what is right and what is not so right.

    I will tell the full story about my Indonesian heritage and family history about atrocities by the Dutch and Japanese fair and square and I get to learn your story.

    Well as for your heritage I think you should tell more to your own siblings or kids and not me. I read history and that is good enough. As to the japanese occupation I doubted you have much to reveal and as for the Dutch atrocities, well perhaps you have have it on a hearsay basis.

    One thing I can assure you, you will re-think and regret your statements about labor camps because that was not a sensible thing to say.

    I don’t think so because history also says that the Dutch kidnapped a great number of Chinese from China and brought them into Indonesia the former Batavia and made them work on buildings, discriminate them and segregated them. etc etc.

    I am speaking solely on history and what happened and has nothing bias unless someone who was so damn sure and cares to say I am anti
    Islam should do the re-thinking.
    I have a number of friends who were also Dutch, but they speak on a different atonement.

    And as to personally writing to seek your historical debacle I pass because I know it will be time wasting.

  15. avatar Odinius says:

    I ask because I spent a lot of time with Iban and Kanayatn Dayaks in Kalbar. Iban tattoos are wicked.

    As for me, either that or a Swede of American residency. Take your pick 😉

  16. avatar Oigal says:

    Dragonwall,

    The issues you raise are valid and should be discussed as a people and as a nation and I don’t intend to belittle the seriousness of those issues.

    However, in this case. Waiting, debating or relying on other countries will not fix Garuda or any other of the major issues that require attention.

    The moral issues could be pursued in tandam with the practical issues but if you are waiting for the world to suddenly develop moral concern for Indonesia, you will be waiting a long time and soon you won’t have the resources to fix things yourselves even if you wanted to.

  17. avatar TheWrathOfGrapes says:

    Is that why Indonesian airlines are buying Boeings and not Airbus? Reported in Singapore at the launch of the Singapore Airshow yesterday:

    “Garuda Indonesia became Boeing’s first client at the show when the airline ordered four 777-300ER planes worth US$1 billion. Indonesian budget carrier Lion Air then ordered 56 Boeing 737-900ER planes valued at more than US$4.4 billion. The airline also acquired purchase rights for an additional 59 units of the plane.”

    Wow, Lion Air is really roaring and rearing to go places….

  18. avatar Lairedion says:

    @dragonwall

    Ok fine. I just put down my opnions here because I like to discuss and get to know about how Indonesians think on several issues.

    I can only summed up that you comments were merely but just to make your presence felt no more no less.

    Do you say that to everybody you disagree with or just me?

  19. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:

    Re Oigal’s comments above

    Mula keto (=memang begitu)

    Lairedion

    Sell Garuda to an European partner, the best option is Air France-KLM group because the Dutch market is still attractive for Indonesian tourism.

    Isn’t there already a cooperation agreement with Lufthansa for maintenance?

  20. avatar Lairedion says:

    Dewa,

    Well could be. Check this link http://www.indonext.com/cgi-bin/comp.pl?ID=10141.

    It says:

    The exacting GMF (Garuda Maintenance Facility) work ethic has immediately translated into substantial cash and timesaving for its customers. As a result, GMF currently has over 12 international and domestic carriers, in addition to Garuda Indonesia’s fleet. In coordination with Lufthansa Consulting, we have implemented several programs. It is aimed mainly to improve the technological skills of the Garuda Maintenance Facility (GMF) crew, to enhance the operational capabilities, and to raise the standards for safety, both in the ground and in the air.

    But perhaps this is old information. The same article is also talking about Garuda still flying to Amsterdam. What the current status is I really don’t know.

  21. avatar sputjam says:

    garuda ordered 10 Boeing triple 7 ER. Lion air’s new planes on order or delivered now total more than air asia – 178 next gen 737-900 vs 175 airbus A320’s.
    The boeing 777 ER is a good choice as it could fly direct to US, situated on the other side of the world, direct, with no stop overs.

    i have a solution for SBY.
    take indonesian airline (GARUDA) to turkey, and continue on the orient express. while in europe, take the opportunity to try their new trains by alstom and siemens, and give a contract to one of these conglomerates to build a trans java railway.

  22. avatar Odinius says:

    Good idea, Sputjam!

    But seriously, Garuda overhauled and greatly improved its maintenance last year. The EU is just slow on the draw.

  23. avatar Moi says:

    @ Lairedion & Ouigal

    I couldn’t agree with you more.

    Oigal is right. Indonesia needs to move forward. I do think the Netherlands should apologize and acknowledge 17 August 1945 as Indepedence Day. Compensation payments for what? You might as well sue the royal Javanese families of radens for collaborating with and selling out its people to the VOC. All Asian nations are looking forward but some Indonesians are still blaiming others while the country is under the threat of falling backwards due to the growing influence of Wahhabi style Islam and huge enviromental issues.

    Our neighbors were all colonized at some point in time. They are moving forward, we kept ourselves busy with looking backwards. In Indonesian I’d say “semua negara tetangga sibuk lari ke depan, Indonesia cuman jalan di tempat”.

    There has been tremendous supports in various fields- I studied in the Netherlands, and I can assure you that there were large numbers of Indonesian students received scholarships from the Dutch government. Check out NEC (Netherlands Education Centre), and Nuffic. In ship building industry, I personally know people coming in to support local business with their knowledge and experience in ship building (no fee). This is only a very quick look in my day-to-day personal surrounding. I haven’t even looked further into foreign aid, either government sponsor or personal contributions via charities.

    As for the main discussion here, our beloved Garuda Indonesia, this airline needs to pull its act together and undergo a total revamp to increase its maintenance and security measure. It’s a wild world out there, if you cannot provide the world standards, don’t blame others if you can’t survive.

  24. avatar sputjam says:

    All colonial powers assisted the natives in one way or the other. The dutch does not recognise indonesian independence as the territory was snatch away from them, unlike malaysia or singapore whereby independence was unilaterraly declared by all parties. Maybe to the dutch, their work in indonesia was incomplete. If they were given more time, they could have tranformed the local mind set towards greater things. But this is impossible now as anything colonial was ignored.
    Maybe it is time to initiate schools based on dutch education system. Only by doing these can indonesia control the mullahs in society. Imagine indonesia building fokker f-28’s instead of CN-235.

  25. avatar Hadz says:

    Yudhoyono insisted on arriving with Garuda to the Netherlands. This surely won’t happen before next summer.

    That’s the spirit! WOOHOO!!!!!!!

    Though I personally am scared to use Garuda.. 🙁 I’d rather Singapore Airlines, shame on me!!

    X(

  26. avatar sir rink ki dink says:

    Mr dragon said that employing foreign pilot be a good solution for garuda, pretty good idea since lion air crash in solo was manned by dutch pilot,, cheap one obviously but a pilot nevertheless , a foreigner alright hopin to gain hours in indo,,,must garuda employ bule to improve??? read singapore business times 26 aug 09,,, garuda is one of few airlines in the world makin bucks ( 66 mill damn green) in rpofit,, garuda will be listed in sept 09,, so garuda ipo should rely on klm again???maybe yes maybe no,, money dont see color,, as far as klm ill have to say 50% of them employe have uncle , auntie, granny, om, tante, opa, oma scatered all over the archipelago, let them be bule klm or browny one,so there be lots of klm crew happier flyin to bali usin industry ticket to bali.
    Now lets go historical,,, i must admit klm helped garuda big time,, up to the 90’s all garuda training manual are copied of klm’s,, meaning if klm pilot wipe their asses with left hand so are the garuda crew,, or experince same nightmare when havin engine fire dream, now garuda had realised that copyin dutch may not be a better solution,, why bother says one ga pilot just copy what boeing got,, so its simpler and everybodies are happier.
    but out of all airlines affected if ga resumes schipol is mas, all those indo bound pax will experince gado2 or nasi goreng from the start iso nasi lemak.

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