Barongsai, & Cultural Assimilation

February 25th, 2008, in News, by Patung

The assimilation of Chinese into Indonesian society, and rules for celebrating Chinese New Year.

Chinese New Year/Imlek and Cap Go Meh 2559

Since the year 2000 public celebrations of Chinese New Year in Indonesia have been legally permitted however in Pontianak, West Kalimantan, the mayor of the town issued a special decree, No 127/2008, forbidding any staging of barongsai and liong, or lion and dragon dance parades, to mark the New Year, on the streets.

Barongsai

Mayor Buchary Abdurrachman said any lion/dragon processions would cause traffic jams and might create social-ethnic conflicts among the people.

We’re not telling people they can’t celebrate Chinese New Year, they can have lion/dragon displays but only in specified places [the Sultan Syarif Abdurrachman soccer stadium], not on the street/in kampungs.

City authorities also instructed people to celebrate the New Year in a simple fashion. [1]

Islam

Meanwhile Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) leader and former president Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) said on 30th January that Imlek was a cultural celebration, not a religious one, and therefore Chinese people who were Muslim were not forbidden from taking part in it. [2]

Assimilation

On 17th February President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (SBY) asked Chinese people to better mix in with society and not keep their distance from others. [3]

For those with the financial capacity, give help to those who need it.

In a similar tone a sociologist at Airlangga University (Unair) in Surabaya, Hotman Siahaan, advised Chinese Indonesians not to adopt an “exclusive” attitude.

Just because they now have the freedom to they shouldn’t speak in Mandarin and use Chinese names.

The discrimination that Chinese had suffered in the past should not create any desire for revenge, he said, in the form of a new exclusivism. The formation of a Chinese political party, the Partai Tionghoa Indonesia, was a worrying sign of the trend, he said. [4]

Tags: Abdurrahman Wahid, Airlangga University, Barongsai, Celebration, China, Chinese, Chinese New Year, Culture, Cultures, Dragon Dance, Ethnic Conflicts, Freedom, Freedoms, Gus Dur, Imlek, Indonesians, Kalimantan, Muslim, Muslims, Political, Politics, Pontianak, Religious, SBY, Surabaya, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, Tionghoa, Traffic, Traffic Jams, Yudhoyono

54 Comments on “Barongsai, & Cultural Assimilation”

Odinius Says:
February 25th, 2008 at 4:49 am
More like…

“Don’t adopt an exclusivist attitude, just be happy to be excluded from any meaningful cultural or political participation on any terms other than ones we impose on you, who are outsiders regardless of it you are an immigrant or 12th generation Indonesian of Chinese descent.”
Murphy Says:
February 25th, 2008 at 9:26 am
The Bataks have their cultural homeland somewhere in the archipelago, same as the Bugis, the Dayaks and other Indonesia’s indigeneous tribes. The Chinese descendants here, on the other hand do not. Wherever they live they will be forever a “guest” in somebody else’s homeland. It’s not easy to accept somebody as “one of us” while at the same time encourage them to be themselves. It’s really just human nature. I think that’s the spirit of Mr. Siahaan advice. It takes sensitivity from both sides to make this work.

The Minangkabaus, one of the ethnics you are most likely to find living outside their cultural homeland tell us their secret about their succesful foray outside West Sumatra: di mana bumi dipijak, di situ langit dijunjung. Wherever on earth you plant your feet, always respect the sky above you.

Most people (not only the Chinese) that escape from this host vs. guest situation are the ones who “assimilate” with the surrounding culture; i.e., respect the sky above them. Not necessarily the ones who forget their own cultural identity, but more of the ones who can master the culture and language of their “host” city/village.

The Chinese in Pontianak, I suspect are not part of this “assimilated” group. You wouldn’t see such cautions from Pontianak mayor given by mayors of coastal towns in Banten, East, or Central Java. Most of the Chinese there speak Javanese and quite fluent in Javanese culture. They are already “one of us” and therefore they can be themselves, i.e., have barongsai parade on the street.

Just my 2 rupiahs.
sputjam Says:
February 25th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
That is like what the australians were trying to tell immigrants all along. Adapt to aussie way of life. But when it comes to indonesia, the locals have to bend over backwards to receive immigrants demands.
Andrew Says:
February 26th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Just because they now have the freedom to they shouldn’t speak in Mandarin, use Chinese names

I find this hard to swallow. If Mr. Siahaan can have Batak name and speak Bataknese, why can’t the Chinese have Chinese name and speak Chinese?

Funny how people confuse ethnicity from a country/political system.
dragonwall Says:
February 26th, 2008 at 1:52 am
Yeah Andrew you were right but perhaps you might have missed that Siahaan is a Muslim. Even SBY is beginning to behave in such a manner now by way of speech.

There are lot of people you thought that they have opened up their mind, but in actual fact what they said were not what they meant. “The Chinese Have Their Freedom”. Until today what freedom are they referring to or talking about. What does the Chinese have.

What they have now is like what they have long ago, nothing has changed. Nothing prominent seen.

In any society, any country there are exclusivity. In any country there are rich people living in exclusive areas and it is their sovereign right to do so. Whereas in Indonesia you can find people just jumping into any plot of empty land to build a hut and claim it is theirs, even though it is in an exclusive areas. There has been nothing exclusive at all in actual fact.
Odinius Says:
February 26th, 2008 at 2:24 am
Yup. Maybe Mr. Siahaan should be more concerned about the large number of pribumi that can only speak their ethnic languages and not Bahasa Indonesia, rather than the very small number of ethnic Chinese who speak Mandarin in addition to Bahasa Indonesia.

But I guess it’s okay for everyone to have their ethnic culture unless they are Chinese. I believe there are a few words that usefully describe that way of thinking!
Teng Says:
February 26th, 2008 at 6:14 am
I believe there are a few words that usefully describe that way of thinking!

I can only think of one.

“The Chinese have their freedom”… although I doubt that I am sure of one thing… the Chinese have to pay more for things.

My wife has to pay extra for a passport, a huge amount more for a birthcertificate etcetera… all because her greatgrandpa was an immigrant from China
Murphy Says:
February 26th, 2008 at 8:27 am
If you read the source news from Waspada, Mr. Siahaan only reminded that this freedom should not be turned into some kind of political revenge by forcing identitites to those who don’t need new identity.

Many Chinese in Indonesia have already been culturally indistinguishable from the rest of Indonesians, which is good. Just like you can’t tell a Javanese and a Minangkabau when they have been neighbour in Bukittinggi for 20 years. The Javanese will still refer to his primbon to find the auspicious date for his daughter’s wedding, but when he goes out, he eats rendang with his local buddies and share dirty jokes in local language.

Some others feel that they need to assert their Chinese identity, which is fine too. Mr. Siahaan just reminded that the this second group should not force the first group to join them to make political statement. Let the changes happen “naturally”.

The Bataks are free to speak their language and use Batak name, just like the Chinese. But when the Bataks who have been living in Yogyakarta for 20 years insist to speak their own language among the Javanese crowd instead of learning how to speak in Bahasa Indonesia or better, in Javanese, that’s when you know something important is missing. That thing is called sensitivity.
sputjam Says:
February 26th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Anything to do with chinese issues in south east asia is deemed sensitive. It does not matter that madurese were butchered by locals in Pontianak. That has happened and same mistake must not reccur. But mention massacre on chinese in predominantly Java and sumatra, especially in 1997 and the story never dies.

If anything, chinese massacre more natives of south east asia than anyone. Pol Pot was of chinese descent. So was members of the numerous communist parties fighting to impose their ideology in south east asia.

In Malaysia the reverse happens. If you are non-chinese, you will have to pay more for services rendered. But do anyone hear any bumis making a big hay out of it? maybe it is due to the NEP(national economic policy whereby bumis are given special prefferences in education/businesses with government and its agencies etc.)

Or take the example of Thaksin(another ethnic chinese) in thailand. In my opinion, he misused his position to escape taxation from the sale of his company to temasek of singapore. But the local native still voted him in power recently by proxy. All these bumis in thailand are suckers as far as i can tell. Thaksin escaped taxation, and use everyone else’s tax contribution to subsidies the poor in the rural north in order to stay in power.The good news was that temasek paid for the purchase of Manchester city football club on his behalf. Now that he is back in power, singapore may as well eat the thais alive.

After the fall of the saigon regime in south vietnam, it was mostly refugees of chinese descend that tried their best to escape the north vietmanese communist regime. But guess what. Singapore, a mostly chinese state, refused them entry. But Indonesia, Thailand, hong Kong(british administered) and malaysia allowed them to land and built refugee camps. I wonder why no viet boat people sail back to china. It is so strange. But then, maybe they understand their own kind better.
dragonwall Says:
February 27th, 2008 at 2:31 am
Take the example of Thaksin (another ethnic chinese) in thailand. In my opinion, he misused his position to escape taxation from the sale of his company to temasek of singapore. But the local native still voted him in power recently by proxy. All these bumis in thailand are suckers as far as i can tell.

You mean the thais are suckers? Comparing his case to Yusril are there any difference? Or Aburizal Bakrie perhaps!
Andrew Says:
February 27th, 2008 at 3:57 am
sputjam said

I wonder why no viet boat people sail back to china. It is so strange. But then, maybe they understand their own kind better.

DUH, I guess it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that going back to China is no different than going back to the problem they’re trying to escape from. What has that got to do with their being Chinese descent?

Why do people sound like a broken record, doing what the Indonesian government has been doing for decades - blaming their own problems on a group of people that won’t bite back.

So, what are you trying to say - Suharto is a Chinese because he swindled a lot of money, too?
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
February 27th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
I maybe miss the whole pictures, why seems Indonesian Chinese so desperate living in Indonesia ?
- a country with the most food-courts only selling halal food
- pork are rather difficult to find
- the most corrupt country in the world
- one the lowest rank countries with low GDP & high unemployment rate
- the earthquake prones country
- too much diversity which will adverse the country’s span of tolerance to chinese culture
- climate are very hot and humid
- infrastructures are worsening due to gov’t inability, corruption & ignorance
- bad track record interm of good governance since reformation era (no progress)
- low education quality that the local university’s certificates are meaningless for international accreditation level
Can anybody help me to understand why Indonesian chinese do NOT behave like the rest of Chinese immigrants around the world who are so nimble, flexible & easily able to adapt to wherever they like to live ?
dragonwall Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 1:23 am
Can anybody help me to understand why Indonesian chinese do NOT behave like the rest of Chinese immigrants around the world who are so nimble, flexible & easily able to adapt to wherever they like to live ?

It is so regrettable to say that the lack of understanding where you stand seems to be the onset of a person who is easy to say as above.

Don’t you think if there is an opportunity that the Chinese could resettle elsewhere, don’t you think they will by all means?

Is there a country that is willing to allow that much Chinese to migrate there with a high rate of illiteracy (considering many were farmers and little over 1 or 2 % or less to be considered well educated).

Have you seen the exodus during the 98 riot? I came back into the country on 19th May 98 to see if Amien Rais kept his promise which he didn’t but instead headed for the MPR.

People are willing to pay a high price to leave but it the fact that they are beyond apprehension and with all their earthly belonging and possession.
You should see how many of those pri crooks that had looted, waylaid and robbed those fleeing of what they were carrying, by becoming rich. Bet you one for sure Aburizal Bakrie from 1.2 to 5.4 billion in one year…How nice…

I really hoped he could come into the IM and say something so that I could weigh my academics with his.
Odinius Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 2:52 am
Why do people sound like a broken record, doing what the Indonesian government has been doing for decades - blaming their own problems on a group of people that won’t bite back.

“Maybe if we blame these people over here, no one will realize that we’re raping and pillaging the land as bad as the Dutch!”

which of course followed from…

“Maybe if we blame these people over here, no one will realize that we, the Dutch, are raping and pillaging the land!”

Learn from the masters…
Teng Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 5:40 am
“Maybe if we blame these people over here, no one will realize that we, the Dutch, are raping and pillaging the land!”

Who did the Dutch blame?

Furthermore is the fact you learned from bad behaviour a long time ago never an excuse for bad behaviour itself. That way noone is ever responsible for their deeds.
Cukurungan Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Why do people sound like a broken record, doing what the Indonesian government has been doing for decades - blaming their own problems on a group of people that won’t bite back.

Do not make another joke”¦.all over the world know that a dragon never bite anybody but if we loosen our surveillance upon them, the Chinese dragon won’t hesitate to ingest all of us alive.

Learn from the Master Buster.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Don’t you think if there is an opportunity that the Chinese could resettle elsewhere, don’t you think they will by all means?

I almost come to my conclussion that the Indonesian chinese have the below traits attached to their heart & attitude.
1. The laziest among the rest of other Chinese Immigrants in different countries
2. It could be lack of Mandarin skills, they are unable to build network easily when moving out from Indonesia
3. It maybe their unable to leave their anchestors grave yard which were burried in Indonesia land territory
4. Easily contended being as a siao lao pan in Indonesia, they think it is better because they can practice bribery easily to the officers & pay relatively cheap Indonesian native workers. This is similar to the root cause problem no:1 which is LAZINESS problem

My proposal to Indonesian Government, if Majority Indonesian do not like to see their Chinese immigrants living side by side with you, please follow the below approach to uproot those Chinese Tionghoa Indonesia.
a. Dig-out their anchestor’ corps & revoke / take back the grave land permission, BPN can do that - also as a side income to your subordinates as Indonesian Chinese will bribe you all the way to protect the grave land
b. Encourage them to learn & practice Mandarin daily, so that they are not chicken to move out from Indonesia. If neccessary subsidize the Mandarin course for them
c. Stop accepting bribe money of anykind from Tionghoa people, if neccessary issue a Fatwa by MUI that is HARAM to accept bribe money from Tionghoa people but bribe money from PRIBUMI is HALAL
d. Apply additional Tax to pay to Tax Controller on top of the worker’s salary if the pribumi workers are employed by Tionghoa people
e. Indonesia is muslim country, ban live pigs, revoke pigs farm license throughout Indonesia immediately & no porks can be sold in the entire Indonesia

By doing that, I guaran damn tee your Tionghoa brothers will think twice to stay living side by side with you. Long live Indonesia ! I want to see that happening soon
Cukurungan Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
By doing that, I guaran damn tee your Tionghoa brothers will think twice to stay living side by side with you. Long live Indonesia ! I want to see that happening soon

NO and NO or NO… We never do that because we love living side by side with a dragon but with the dancing dragon not the wild dragon.

Therefore, the Indonesia Government should learn to other country how to control the Chinese so that they only become a dancing dragon and not a wild dragon that someday will swallow all of us alive.

Check it out in Japan, USA and Malaysia, the Chinese Dragon is only allowed to stay and make business in the designated area of the China Town not in all over the place like in here. Breeding the dragon beyond the cage is posing very serious problem as we can see on TV, the dragon can store, process and trade the illegal drug ranging from a rent house up to industrial complex.

Make no mistake, the dragon spirit is no different with a religious fanatics, they will do anything to achieve their goal, if the religious fanatic will do anything to impose their divine message whereas the dragon will do anything to escape from their embarrassing status.

In the dragon community, the most important attribute is their economical status either they are poor or rich because whatever their attribute or faith if they are poor that is the full embarrassment for the dragon family. Therefore, the dragon will do anything they can do as long as they can upgrade their economical status.

Fortunately for them but too bad for us, they have heritage a best weapon from their ancestor as below:

*Learn thoroughly the law and regulation so you can break it properly
*Buy the sword from your starved enemy

The dragon already bought the starved pribumi sword (Army General, Police, Judge an lawyer) and the dragon had fully mastered our law so nothing left for us except barren Sumatra and Kalimantan Forest, disappearance of some Riau Island and, billions us dollars drain out to Singapore and Fukian.

Learn from the master buster not to the other
Janma Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Awww diddums Cuk…… did the nasty chinese people take your toys!? I don’t no what ‘other’ countries you are talking about, but chinese are not kept in ‘china town’….
Cukurungan Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Bu Janma …Why you are so penurious …we already disclosed our fable talent in many thing but you are still covering your beatify under a nasty gravatar
Sylvester Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Again, many lies from Cuk
dragonwall Says:
February 29th, 2008 at 4:43 am
You called yourself Deng Xiao Phing, but by way of speech you are not a chinese and most likely a pribumi chinese hater.

Did you know you speak like a 2 year old sob?

Receiving bribery from Muslim is halal and from chinese haram?

Dig out the graves, how if someone dig your grave for you?

I sum you up to be someone who detest your chinese employer because he didn’t make you happy.

Therefore, the Indonesia Government should learn to other country how to control the Chinese so that they only become a dancing dragon and not a wild dragon that someday will swallow all of us alive.

And this goes to you also.

Will both of you forget of giving your false pretence.

Let me tell you that the chinese are not a problem to any government but the pris are. Look at malaysia, saudis etc..etc..

So introspect the problem before you comment.

It is that you can’t keep up the pace that makes you people lazier than others.

Tell the indonesian government what to do and see what will they say to you.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
February 29th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
You called yourself Deng Xiao Phing, but by way of speech you are not a chinese and most likely a pribumi chinese hater.

in this forum, we shall response / comment to others without emotion. So if possible please detach any type of accusation, that’s is better.

can Dragonwall focus to the fact ?
- don’t you agree deep in your heart that majority pri do not like ‘non-pri’ which is = tionghoa ? the proof were many many repetitive small & medium & large size of rioting against tionghoa in the past, I think without emotion I am stating only the facts, full stop
- so, I tried to seek the answers, why Tionghoa Indonesia so desperate or ‘betah’ or at home or ‘homesick’ or ‘kerasan’ living in Indonesia
- then I contrasting the Indon nature, the climate, the majority muslim practices, etc which are NOT compatible with tionghoa way of life
- then I tried to conclude … oh maybe Tionghoa Indon are the laziest HuaKiaw chinese immigrant around the globe because blah blah blah ….

I hv no emotion but seeking the professional answers about this contradicting facts.
I meant, if Tionghoa Indon migrate to Singapore with lot of similarities on the way of live then I will never question the side by side compatibility between native Singaporean born or Macau born and Tionghoa Indon who migrated there.
dragonwall Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 8:09 am
DXP, please note that this in not about emotion that comes first. It is the words like

don’t you agree deep in your heart that majority pri do not like ‘non-pri’ which is = tionghoa ? the proof were many many repetitive small & medium & large size of rioting against tionghoa in the past, I think without emotion I am stating only the facts

It clear shows that either you have been in Indonesia recently or to impart your knowledge to others that the Chinese were the most hated group of minorities with that many examples you set forth upon.

Noting most of the riot were pre-meditated with an intention of politicians or whoever they are.

There were riots because of food price.
There were riots because of low wages.
There were riots because of political struggle.
There were riots between ethnic Christians and Madurese.
There were also riots instigated, orchestrated by the army or the government.

One answer outright. Most of them had every intention to make the Chinese the scapegoat as an easy way out. Didn’t you know that? And this has been the case of political history of Indonesia back to the era of Dutch regime as an easy way out for them to occupy Indonesia. Check out some of them in publication or ebooks pertinent to these.

The Chinese are not desperate, so that you know kid, that they were trying every means to make their way out if not for a particular reason. And besides if other neighboring countries does have political asylum put up for grant then they will also take the option. The only problem is that in the east there isn’t any country that has one because fearing a population explosion that will imbalance their own citizens.

Why doesn’t the Indonesian government make the discrimination crap go away.
in fact they did on face value but it is still those idiotice Ministers, clerics, smart alek that always became a hindrance to such process of elimination. There must be a reason why. (Perhaps edge the Chinese so that they have nowhere to go and then they can come in and say this property is mine, that house is my granny girlfriend’s.

One day you will see a drastic change. Even to the extent of letting th pris taking over the Chinese business like what you short VP implied, I doubted the accomplishment could be a success. He, they and all the Ministers knew f**k**g well the situation.

As long as there are money going into their own pocket, they czn’t be bothered about the rest in society.

I am also very sure that you have not suffered such predicament like the Indonesian Chinese did on all those riots especially the 65 and 98 issues.

I think you have more to say regarding the climate and condition being born and bred in Indonesia. Can you swallow that?

The question is that the Chinese born and bred in Indonesia were being denied the rights of domicile. Freedom of speech, freedom of exercising their rights, freedom to be an Indonesian.

My question will then be, what if you were in their shoes?
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pm
I wish this threat of discussion will not be an exclusive dialog between DXP and Mr. Dragon because I want to hear the majority public say as well.

The question is that the Chinese born and bred in Indonesia were being denied the rights of domicile. Freedom of speech, freedom of exercising their rights, freedom to be an Indonesian.

My question will then be, what if you were in their shoes?

My answers :
1. So long as you have 100% chinese blood from your both parent (exclude the mixed races from mix parents) then you shall NOT cry that you are being disadvantaged from the rest of pribumi living in Indonesia
2. I do not see any advantagous to have 100% rights being as Indonesian because Indon is led by corrupt gov’t & very poor in many aspects. So it is okay you do not have full rights because the country’s capabilities are very very limited anyway.
3. You shall dig-out yourself your parents / anchestor grave and pay a lavish crematory ceremony so their respectful ashes can be compacted and it will be easy for you to carry to wherever destination country you want to migrate. Anyway when you settle in different better country, no one will ask you to bribe money to get the license / buy the 1 X 2 sq meter land for your parent’s new grave yard. That is the real incentive for sure.
4. You shall be shame if you have chinese face without capable of speaking dialecs or Mandarin at least so it will limit your networking capability around the globe
5. You shall realize that chinese culture & value are 180 degree different than Indon pri
6. Assimilation will create further long term problems, as your kids will get lost they do not know which race they will belong to ?
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
One more things very important point,
7. You shall sell all your assets, belonging and transfer out your money out from Indonesia, because Indon majority do not and it is very hard for them to welcome you…. please don’t cry …. Mr. Dragon (remember what YK had said is a time bomb)
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 8:36 pm
@ Deng Xiao Phing

I wish this threat of discussion will not be an exclusive dialog between DXP and Mr. Dragon because I want to hear the majority public say as well.

I hear ye.

Of the three Malay World (Brunei, Malaysia and Indonesia); in my opinion and from personal experiences, Indonesia is the most tolerant toward tionghuas despite earning her name as the most anti-Chinese nation. The policy in these two countries speak for itself. In both Malaysia and Brunei, the pris are predominantly Melayus who are notorious for being anti-Chinese. In Indonesia, only certain areas in Jawa Barat and Sumatra Utara are anti-Chinese hotspots. Kali Dayaks, Central & East Javanese, the Balinese do not have problem with their Chinese neighbours. My two rupiah.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Thanks for your 2 rupiah valuable input bung Aluang.
My comments, the 3 combined Malays world of Brunei + Malaysia + Indonesia = still very small world and those are not the ideal place for chinese immigrants too.
The world are huge without those 3 countries the world live are still okay
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Wrong .. without Indonesia, how can the tionghuas live kings. Even Dragonwall came to seek his fortune as a poor lad from Singapore and struck gold with an Indon Chinese. Now he can talk big, and talk rubbish.
Janma Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
Bu Janma “¦Why you are so penurious “¦we already disclosed our fable talent in many thing but you are still covering your beatify under a nasty gravatar

cukky….. you lost me with your big words hon….. penurious? Kapan sih gue pelit sama loe?
Janma Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Plus, what’s wrong with my gravatar? it’s nasty? awww…. cuk, my heart stings, after me getting all gushy over yours….
sputjam Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Aluang anak bayang said-

Of the three Malay World (Brunei, Malaysia and Indonesia); in my opinion and from personal experiences, Indonesia is the most tolerant toward tionghuas despite earning her name as the most anti-Chinese nation.

The malay world include the phillipines, who are mostly catholics and had Presidents of chinese descent (but similar religion) like Marcos and Acquino.
In brunei, due to low taxes, the Tow Kays drive porsches and ferraris and their children drive mercedes and BMW’s. But many are denied citizenship, only PR’s(permanent residence)

In malaysia, they have chinese and indian schools financed entirely by the govenrment. And enrollment in chinese school amongst all races is increasing, due to unpopularity of national type schools taught in the malay language. In order to make national type schools popular again, they have decided to dump malay for english in science and mathematics, and introduce mandarin and tamil(indian) as subjects.

Comparing to what you have said, how is it that Indonesia is more tolerant than the other two neighbours.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Mas sputjam,

The malay world include the phillipines, who are mostly catholics and had Presidents of chinese descent (but similar religion) like Marcos and Acquino….

Okay, I agree that I missed the Fillipinoes. They are part of the Malay families.

In brunei, due to low taxes, the Tow Kays drive porsches and ferraris and their children drive mercedes and BMW’s. But many are denied citizenship, only PR’s(permanent residence)

By ‘Tow Kays’, I presume you mean Bruneian Chinese. Drive Porches, Ferraris, Merc and BMWs; sputjam, you are rehashing the same old ‘Brunei is a rich country, then everyone is millionaires’ myth. Not even the local Melayus are allowed high powered vehicles, let alone the ‘Tow Kays’. It is illegal to own prestigious sport cars and certain top class Merc and BMWs; unless you are related to the Royal families. The best one can get is a Toyota MR2 or a Subaru WRX.

Rich Bruneian ‘Tow Kays’ are small fry compared to Indonesian and Malaysian ‘Tow Kays’. In Brunei, the wealthiest ‘Tow Kays’ are grocery shop owners, they liked to call it ’supermarket’ there; whereas Indonesian ‘Tow Kays’ are conglomerate owners. Besides the Royal families, no one is rich in Brunei. Let’s not go further until you speak to a Bruneian ‘Tow Kay’ on discrimination on the Tionghuas.

ps. You are speaking to someone who spent a third of his life in Brunei.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:54 pm
THose who have accessed to TV Satelite & able to tap the Channel News Asia, you may hv seen Ch News Asia interviewed the Indonesian chinese PR who has live for 30 years in Singapore successfully, namanya bapak Setiadi Ongkowidjaya, origin of Bandung. He runs a very successful architect contractor firm in Singapore with his local Chinese Singaporean partner professionally, successfully & happily without being affraid of driving his porche or mercedez and without being object of jealousy or constant suspicous by the pribumi which commonly happen in Indonesia.
I believe many other untold stories, the successful chinese Indonesian can survive and work well with other chinese immigrants around the world.
Why would you always beg living in INdonesia ? unless your mind is corrupt, weak, lazy, or always think that business = bribery to corrupt gov’t officers to get facility/monopoly/’kemudahan’ - but that is not always a good way of making money
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Why would you sacrifice your life, origin value for the ‘cultural assimilation’ ? think about it, these kind of gov’t request is too much ! I don’t think the reverse will be acceptable by those officers, can they become a christian & assimilate to marry the Dutch if they happened to be a child of a migrant Javanese origin living in the Dutch land ?
Lairedion Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Murphy said some true words with:

di mana bumi dipijak, di situ langit dijunjung

If you choose to live in another country a certain level of assimilation is inevitable in order to be accepted by your host. This does not mean you have to abandon your cultural identity. If you’re participating and contributing to the society of your host by learning, understanding and applying its local customs and habits, the host generally will have no problem with your cultural manifestations and celebrations and sometimes will see these as enrichments to its own culture.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 3rd, 2008 at 6:58 pm
This does not mean you have to abandon your cultural identity. If you’re participating and contributing to the society of your host by learning, understanding and applying its local customs and habits, the host generally will have no problem with your cultural manifestations and celebrations and sometimes will see these as enrichments to its own culture.

I want to hear other comments, do the above statement reflect the reality ??
Jay Larkham Says:
March 4th, 2008 at 10:19 am
History repeats always itself. Wait till PRC is a super power again…it will become like the old days when local chiefs would clamour for more Chinese trade and people to help jack up their economy. You can also add the Indians into the mix as well.
Odinius Says:
March 5th, 2008 at 12:03 am
If you choose to live in another country a certain level of assimilation is inevitable in order to be accepted by your host. This does not mean you have to abandon your cultural identity. If you’re participating and contributing to the society of your host by learning, understanding and applying its local customs and habits, the host generally will have no problem with your cultural manifestations and celebrations and sometimes will see these as enrichments to its own culture.

I think one of the main problems here, though, is that the “pribumi” often expect Chinese Indonesians to simultaneously assimilate to the point of having no cultural traditions that are specifically Chinese, but simultaneously expect them to not be able to participate meaningfully in any aspect of Indonesian life outside the economy. Assimilation and multiculturalism should be complementary, rather than contradictory. Indonesians should be free to practice their ethnic cultures while feeling broadly included in what it means to be “Indonesian,” a loyalty which should IMO come first. But it’s not just up to the minorities to accept it, it has to be accepting of them as well. If not, you can’t blame them for wanting to carve an ethnic niche outside the mainstream.
dragonwall Says:
March 5th, 2008 at 12:08 am
DXP you mention something about a threat of discussion? I don’t get what that means.

First let me just say who the f**k are you to say that they Chinese in Indonesia doesn’t have their rights? I am well aware that what JK say is a time bomb as I had said long long time ago. It reflects just what people like Prabowo, Habibie, Aburizal Bakrie and the bunch of bigot had said about the status of Chinese. What they had done was deemed to be detrimental to he safety of the Chinese born and bred in Indonesia.

To fight for ones rights is their right and I don’t think anyone is crying over that like you whinning of being poor. You have the right to be poor, but you do not have the right to tell others that when you are poor, others need to help you out. You have to work it yourself. And I suppose this is cultural attitude.

You talk about assimilation but you detest the Chinese presence in Indonesia. You talk about being a poor pri but you cannot sleep when some of the Chinese are rich. And just because some of them are rich you take for assumption that all are rich and should move out of Indonesia. I know well that many CHinese hopes to leave Indonesia.
Like I said people like you are that you hope that these people leave so that you could come in and claim this is yours that is yours, right!

I really think that by way of what you said, people like you should not be left to live in places like Indonesia. You should be place in the middle east and let those camels gothe you to consider yourself halal. Arsehole.

________________________

Wrong .. without Indonesia, how can the tionghuas live kings. Even Dragonwall came to seek his fortune as a poor lad from Singapore and struck gold with an Indon Chinese. Now he can talk big, and talk rubbish.

Like I said from the start, sore losers like you are those being spoon fed.

(I did ask earlier to see if there was something missing, which your IQ was not high enough to understand. I did say your name isn’t worth mentioning, that is why whatever you present yourself I will call you that name)

Do I really need Indonesia? When I step into Indonesia I am not sure where were you, moleface. I don’t need Indonesia. After I left and is now in the US, I made more than what I lost in Indonesia. I think areshole like you should wake up your ideas and be at least a little more literate.

The tionghoas that may live like kings is because they work for it, you didn’t gave them, JK, AB, and all those moronic bigots didn’t gave them their wealth.

One year after I step into Indonesia, I made half a mil, so what has that got to do with you. We manage buildings and business there, WTF has that got to do with you?

I worked 18 hours a day how many hours you work. I would guess at most 6 and the rest of your time you spend were to just shut the lights and cause population explosion.

Like you mention that you dad told you, if you cannot make good of yourself in Indonesia then you are a failure. I really think so because by way of your comments you don’t seemed to be succeeding at all alwyas whinning and sighing on other, cursing and swearing upon you God on others.

Take a good look at all your comments and tell people in this blogs what you are really up to. JEALOUS, PETTY, UNBECOMING sore loser.
Hadz Says:
March 5th, 2008 at 4:20 am
Nice…. BARONGSAI!!!

Lol, the PTA parents from South Eastern Asia and China at my school organized this event where there’s a Chinese New Year sort of party..

There were barongsai and angpaos..

I got old France Frank and Dutch Gulden.. I love them though, I collect coins..

I’m in an International School in Amsterdam, so the people who watched those are mostly the Americans and Dutch.. It’s so funny, they were taking pictures and watched so enthusiastically.. I didn’t, I mean, I can watch those all the time in Jakarta!

That is, when I’m BACK to Jakarta..
Hadz Says:
March 5th, 2008 at 4:23 am
Take a good look at all your comments and tell people in this blogs what you are really up to. JEALOUS, PETTY, UNBECOMING sore loser.

That’s…. nice? I don’t get what you’re talking about though, I just came.. XD
sputjam Says:
March 5th, 2008 at 10:03 am
If you are an immigrant, and you cannot get along with locals, who is at fault?
dragonwall Says:
March 6th, 2008 at 1:53 am
That’s”¦. nice? I don’t get what you’re talking about though, I just came.. XD

Don’t blame you I am referring to this guy who always feels nice throwing stones with hiding his hands behind his back.

And as for you

If you are an immigrant, and you cannot get along with locals, who is at fault?

You were also an immigrant before. You didn’t sprout out from this country. You can’t prove that your ancestors were originated from Indonesia. So does that comments also reflects to yourself as well?

It is those that feels that the Chinese were rich and much to their envy had eventually become jealous and does not like to get along with others.

It doesn’t mean that when I buy a house I have to go through the whole kampuang and tell every who am I and I need to beg to get along with them? FO. What if you were a Chinese. Would you be saying this way?
dewaratugedeanom Says:
March 6th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Lairedion said

This does not mean you have to abandon your cultural identity. If you’re participating and contributing to the society of your host by learning, understanding and applying its local customs and habits, the host generally will have no problem with your cultural manifestations and celebrations and sometimes will see these as enrichments to its own culture.

Deng Xiao Phing said

I want to hear other comments, do the above statement reflect the reality ??

The problem lies in the numbers involved. As long as ethnic minorities remain minorities, their culture mostly represents and oddity and eventually an enrichment upon the local one. But once their numbers become bigger they will become a threat, especially with those who are expansive and into proselytising. If on top of that the minorities have economic advantages - for whatever reason - be prepared because masalah tidak diduga datangnya, meaning look out because trouble is on its way.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 8th, 2008 at 9:11 am
If you are an immigrant, and you cannot get along with locals, who is at fault?

DXP said :
the immigration officers were wrong accepting bribery from those China people thus letting them enter Indonesia territory in the past. If proven tionghoa immigrants do not contribute to this society, and I am very very sure pribumi by and large hate Chinese people then STOP accepting them entering into Indonesia territory, you pribumi control your country and created policy. Afterall Immigration can create a one of a kind in the word policy called Fiscal Tax for citizen, why not banning Chinaman Chinawomen from entering Indonesia thus protecting this territory from China Chinese Tionghoa. I beg you please sterilize Indonesia territory from China man women etc … do not let CNOOC, PETROCHINA, GEELY etc to participate investing their HARAM money to Indonesia because those chinaman eat pork you know, their word & their acts are subject to haram acts, your GOD may angry to you STUPID ASSHOLE

Second answer, for those first generation China immigrants who can not get along with locals - then blame to the Immigration officers who did not provide enough bahasa training & the kelurahan unlike other country do not hv adequate facility for foreigner’s corners, sorry bung your country Indonesia is way below international standard.

Third answer, for 2nd and 50th generation china immigrants (called Tionghoa) who no longer able to speak Mandarin & already follow Soeharto rule to adopt local name using ‘Surat Ganti Nama’ (again a uniquely Indonesian way of handling Tionghoa) either Aluang, Akong or Asu and capable to speak fluently local dialect like Sunda, Jowo, Madurese, Balinese, Batakis or SUNDELISE (ups sorry) etc … then if they are not able to get along with the locals - blame to the local pribumi themself because the pri are blind to accept them who speaks their lingo. So what else do you demand MORON?

Conclussion :
1. Blame to Immigration Officers who are pribumi and local pribumi
2. You can get richer outside poor Indonesia with the national budget keep on facing deficit pressure, poor Indonesia who constantly at fear looking at the current increasingly higher international crude price & hv to adjust all the time with the more realistic yet widening gap of budget from time to time.
CapGoMeh Says:
March 13th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Most of young Chinese Indonesian does not realize the real meaning of Barangsai.
Probabbky of the so called generation gap last time.

However technology helps to encourage them to know better.

Tks
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 14th, 2008 at 2:54 am
@ Deng Xiao Phing

You should detach yourself from getting too personal and emotional when commenting.

You should live in Country like Malaysia and especially Brunei; then you will know you are under a lucky star with Javanese-ruled Indonesia.

Yes, there were name changes, Chinese culture was not allowed, etc; but other than that, you are considered ‘Indonesian’ with Indonesian citizenship and passport. There were no other restriction, the world is your oyster in Indonesia.

Ask any Bruneian Chinese how many Tionghua migrants over 10 generations are denied citizenship and stamped “STATELESS” on their travel documents and Identity Card. If they worked or studied overseas and forgot to renew their travel documents, they do not have 2nd chance. My parents had helped some of these “STATELESS” Bruneian Chinese gain Indonesian passport when the country they were born in refused them entry. Their business activities and movement are restricted. This is pure racism from Melayus controlled territories. Don’t believe sputjam about Bruneian ‘towkays’ driving Ferrari, no such thing.

Indonesia was/is managed by the Javanese. Unlike the Melayus, we are fair-minded and gets along easily with any groups be they another pri groups or Chinese. A few of our heroes and our Javanese elites have Chinese blood or connections. The 1st Wali marrried a Chinese and I know some of their descendants; Gus Dur is another with Chinese blood. Two of my adopted siblings are Kali Chinese, and another is a mix. You are complaining too much. The grass is not always greener on the other side.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
You should live in Country like Malaysia and especially Brunei; then you will know you are under a lucky star with Javanese-ruled Indonesia.

I said very clearly in earlier postings, Malaysia + Brunei + Indonesia are NOT the ideal choice for chinese immigrants for living period.
Please do NOT assume every chinese see Indonesia as the best living & settle country, Mr Aluang - your thinking seperti katak dalam tempurung.
I also said, those 3 Malay countries are consistently being marginalized in the world economy society, you guys can only balk in the ‘Islamic context world conference’ else no progression. Even though in IOC, I don’t think most of the members more respectful to the middle east countries, sorry … these are reality of live.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:45 am
@ Deng Xiao Phing

Please do NOT assume every chinese see Indonesia as the best living & settle country, Mr Aluang - your thinking seperti katak dalam tempurung.

I beg to differ. This is not what my Chinese friends told me.

The reality’s if-you-would-admit fact is that:

No Chinese will ever want to leave Indonesia inspite of all the anti-Chinese element. It is an Aladdin’s den. Nowhere in the world they can make quick bucks and become seriously rich. Many make it, some don’t.

You sounds like you are a recent migrants or perhap the first generation.
Murphy Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
@Deng Xiao Phing

Most chinese immigrant here are the second or third generation. They come to Indonesia when there was no immigration policy to speak of. I don’t think these days Indonesia still accepts big wave of Chinese immigrants like they did in the past. The country already has 230 million people; and if you read newspaper about crime and prostitution by the PRC’s coming in tourist visa I don’t think accepting PRC immigrant will ever become popular government policy.

Second, which part of being immigrant that you don’t understand? Your cultural homeland is 5,000 km upnorth. You are living in somebody else’s homeland. Start by accepting it. The Bataks in Solo accepted it. The Surabayan in Makassar accepted it. Why can’t you?

The onus is on the immigrants to be accepted by the society they live in. Just because you have local KTP doesn’t mean that you are culturally accepted by your neighbours. Stop demanding for this and that and start learning about the culture around you. The Chinese that I used to know is very good at doing this. They speak Javanese in Solo, they open Nasi Padang restaurant in Padang, they are first to hand “salam tempel” to the frightened kids at sunatan massal and in return nobody complaints about the smell from their incense burning or their extravagant Kuburan Cina because you they moved from being “guest” to become “local”.

Learn to do it and you will have a happier life.
Deng Xiao Phing Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
No Chinese will ever want to leave Indonesia inspite of all the anti-Chinese element. It is an Aladdin’s den. Nowhere in the world they can make quick bucks and become seriously rich. Many make it, some don’t.

You sounds like you are a recent migrants or perhap the first generation.

You shall check the immigration office and see the trend, the clean mind of young Tionghoa, well educated, never dream like your dirty dream want to be instantly rich (I really hate stereotyping statements as if every Tionghoa = Sudono Salim, f u !) are leaving Indonesia. Only the lazy & corruptors who becoming similar to pribumi corruptors are affraid of leaving Indonesia, yes I am clear about it.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
You shall check the immigration office and see the trend, the clean mind of young Tionghoa, well educated, never dream like your dirty dream want to be instantly rich …

In Bold: That is unChinese.

(I really hate stereotyping statements as if every Tionghoa = Sudono Salim, f u !) are leaving Indonesia. Only the lazy & corruptors who becoming similar to pribumi corruptors are affraid of leaving Indonesia, yes I am clear about it.

By the same token, you must be f**king in the face of all your Tionghua brothers because that was what they told me. Most Indonesian Chinese I know blamed the pogrom on other pris but not the Javanese. During the pogrom, many die alongside protecting their Chinese friends or simply had Chinese connections. Well, if you can’t get along with your own people, much less the Javanese; you are free to leave our God forsaken land. No one is stopping you.
Cukurungan Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Well, if you can’t get along with your own people, much less the Javanese; you are free to leave our God forsaken land. No one is stopping you.

I tell you that Mr Deng Xiao Phing will never leave Indonesia forever his pervious Nick Name was Raden…his tone is exactly the same with him that He always advocate all Chinese to leave Indonesia but NOT HIMSELF…why because his business is just to buy and sell the property and stuff owned by Chinese can be frightened by him…of course buy cheap and sell High…nice business