The Jakarta Post, or Pest

Nov 15th, 2007, in IM Posts, Opinion, by

Ross complains that the Jakarta Post newspaper is too left wing.

Jakarta Pest- Time to Move On?

Last Tuesday the Jakarta Post granted a large area of its centre spread to George Soros, the plutocrat whose wealth has lately been devoted to the advance of cultural marxism in America and, ipso facto, throughout the world.

His diatribe went after all the usual boogie-men and boogie-institutions hated by left-liberals, e.g. President Bush, V-P Cheney, the 'ex-Trotskyite' David Horowitz and of course Fox News. The latter's sin, in Soros' book, is apparently to describe itself as 'fair and balanced.'

Mr. Horowitz got included in the spray of animosity, presumably, because he wrote a book called 'The Shadow Party,' about Soros and his pet project, MoveOn.org (well worth a read - sample quote.

Now it's our party! We bought it, we own it!

MoveOn.org leader leftist Eli Pariser referring to the Democratic Party, following the 2004 elections, when billionaires- chief among them Soros, contributed more than $300 million to liberal candidates and groups)

I can also offer an alternative perspective on Soros from an article in Accuracy In Media An "Extremely Evil Person" by Cliff Kincaid, October 3, 2006. [1]

Speaking at a Washington symposium on the continuing threat posed by illegal drugs to American society, Calvina Fay of the Drug Free America Foundation declared billionaire George Soros to be an "extremely evil person" who wants to legalize dangerous mind-altering drugs. ,,. an atheist who is a major funder of the Democratic Party and liberal-left causes, is "our common enemy" and that he is determined to subvert traditional values and undermine America's families.

Soros, convicted of insider trading in France, is a financial speculator and hedge fund operator who manipulates the currencies of the nations of the world in order to make himself rich. Some of his fortune, estimated at $7 billion, has been put into causes such as abortion rights, gay rights, drug legalization, voting rights for felons, euthanasia, and rights for immigrants and prostitutes. His Open Society Institute even helped underwrite attorney Lynne Stewart, subsequently convicted of helping terrorists. In 2004, he spent more than $20 million in an unsuccessful effort to defeat President Bush for re-election.

In an appearance at the same anti-drug event, Marc Wheat, staff director and chief counsel of the House Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources, described Soros as someone who seems to have no sense of guilt or responsibility for his actions. He noted that, during a December 20, 1998, interview with 60 Minutes, Soros acknowledged that as a 14-year-old Jewish boy in Hungary , his identity was protected and that he actually assisted in confiscating property from Jews as they were being shipped off to death camps. Asked by interviewer Steve Kroft if he had any sense of guilt over what he did, Soros replied, "No."

In the interview, Soros went on to compare his predicament at the time to the operation of economic markets, saying, ""¦if I weren't there, of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow." Soros then insisted he was only a "spectator" and had "no role in taking away that property." That is why, he said, "I had no sense of guilt."

No uncritical admirer of either the incumbent American President or his deputy, ( I'm not American, by the way) I certainly give them more respect than a character like Soros.

I should say that I also have my doubts about the motivations of Rupert Murdoch (hard to like a guy who surrenders his nationality for a chance to make more money), but have some esteem for his business acumen. His Fox slogan was cleverly devised to win viewers from the mainstream American media, which are grossly biased to the left of centre and has been for a long time.

Murdoch himself has been carefully repositioning his stable of outlets, with his New York Post endorsing Hitlery Clinton, so let's reserve judgement on how 'fair and balanced' his employees remain. One should not forget his sly style in the UK, where the Sunday Times took side-swipes at the Royal Family but held back from outright republicanism for fear of losing thousands of loyalist readers while his Economist (a much smaller circulation magazine) openly articulated his gut anti-monarchy sentiments.

But it was almost laughable to see the Soros put-down of Fox's claims to objectivity in a publication so slanted as the JP.
With The Point surely doomed to extinction due to its owners' inability or unwillingness to hire writers with a fluent command of English, we are stuck with the JP as our only English-language daily, and you'd think its proprietors would accept that this presents them with some responsibility to afford all sections of expat opinion an approximation of equal access.

Far from it. Their sense of news value is all too often subordinated to their ideological proclivities, such as their constant reports harping on about the 'poor victims,' aka PKI communist totalitarians, who suffered so much in 1965; (no doubt many did suffer, but some of them assuredly deserved to, and the JP's editorial columns not so long ago contained a eulogy to the despotic Ho Chi Minh, with no sense of shame evident at excluding all mention of the murder and cruelty dispensed by Vietnam's Communist Party dictatorship - victims of communism do not merit the same sympathy as reds who reap the whirlwind of their class-hate creed!

Again, news took second place to JP prejudice with the huge front-page coverage given to the Q-Fest, a deviant film festival, (subsidized by a foreign NGO) with almost contemporaneous propaganda articles, a fulsome report on the vapourings of some Malaysian 'Adjunct Professor of Gender Studies' ( is that a real subject?) on how her fellow-countrymen (or '-persons?!?' ) should embrace cohabiting deviants by legalizing so-called 'gay marriage.'

Then there was the feminist (though admittedly cute) ranter Julia Suryakusuma, whose subsequent 'opinion' piece (12th September) was studded with pro-deviant factoids and a grossly offensive reference to (of course unidentified) pesantren - Islamic boarding schools - as hotbeds of sodomy. If Al Qidayeh gets it in the neck for defaming Islam, what about smearing Muslim schools? Name and shame, sweet Julia, or is that too much like honest journalism?

Another example of the JP bias was the lengthy article by an Australian Labor Party front-bench spokesman, whose comments were not balanced by any similar guest-writer invited from the Howard Government's parliamentary benches.

There was also an expat Australian's anti-monarchist article, simmering with resentment against Australia's beautiful and popular flag. True, a letter was published from an Australian royalist critic, but a small patch of the space allotted to reader's letters does not carry the same weight as a featured article. Some of us won't soil our valuable typing energy sending in rebuttals knowing at best they'll be consigned to a lowly corner, in contrast to the limelight bestown on the sinister (I use the word in its Latin meaning) outpourings of the JP's lefty darlings.

Perhaps if we stop buying it, the lefties in charge may get the message and move on from their callow 'Sixties radical' stance. They do publish material that is non-partisan, but what about some items to appeal to those many of us who are right of centre? A rare hiccup in their politically correctness occurred not long ago, with an academic allowed to express concern at the suppression of those who refute the current 'global-warming' hysteria. Was this mere tokenism or a reaction to the risk of losing readers to The Point, a risk that is regrettably receding as that paper refrains from making the most of a golden opportunity?

Unfortunately, the big money, to start a coherent alternative paper with an objective mission, does not seem to exist here. This reflects the situation in America, where the wealthiest elements, super-rich dynasties like the Kennedys and the Heinz-Kerry and Gore family fortunes, have taken sides against the wong cilik, the little folk, whose values they despise. Soros, with his billions, exemplifies this divorce of those who have prospered indecently (worse in his case because he made a deliberate choice to be part of America and now seeks to tear it down) and then turned their riches into political weaponry. It is only fitting that the Havana, sorry, Jakarta Post, should give an ersatz American's anti-Americanism such star billing.


39 Comments on “The Jakarta Post, or Pest”

Pages: [1] 2 »

  1. avatar WP says:
    November 15th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    Ross, you talk like you’re from another planet man :) But I guess I’ll just have to beleive you…. (gulp).

    But anyway, I want to write an article for Jpost, but have no clue where to I should send the article. In the old days I used to take a bus and deliver my stuffs personally to some editor. But now, since I’m living like tens of thousands km away, bus is not an option anymore. Anyone has a tip, as to who to contact in Jpost?

  2. avatar Pakmantri says:
    November 15th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

    WP,

    Editorial and General Dept.
    Jl. Palmerah Selatan 15, Jakarta 10270, Indonesia
    P.O. Box 85 Palmerah Jakarta 11001
    Phone: (62)(21) 5300476, 5300478 Fax: (62)(21) 5350050, 5306971
    E-mail: editorial@thejakartapost.com

    Or
    http://www.thejakartapost.com/columns.asp

  3. avatar WP says:
    November 15th, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    Thanks Pakmantri :)

  4. avatar Sputjam says:
    November 15th, 2007 at 11:34 pm

    Sexual misconduct in religious schools/institution in nothing new. It has been discovered in the west. It is only a matter of time before similar admission is done in the east, whether it is in the pesantren, or boys doing monkhood in thailand and myanmar.

  5. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 12:48 am

    American started the prom.. So where does smooching originates?

    And I suppose always playing Big Brothers to others will qualify America to such star billing.

  6. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 7:53 am

    Ross,

    The entire essay above is based on a few of unbelieveably stupid assertions.

    - The Jakarta Post is left wing. (It’s liberal – in the American sense. But that depends where you are on the spectrum. In your case, it’s the right of Gengis Kahn, so everything looks left).

    - George Soros, multi-billionaire and ex mogul currency trader, is a Marxist. That’s the best one. Yes, I’m sure George was plotting class struggle and ways to overthrow capitalism while he was shorting currencies around the world, and swinging exchange rates.

    The Post is a resource-stretched paper. It’s short on human resources. And its owners – Gramedia and the Wanandi brothers – want to maintain the historically high profit margins newspapers have had.

    On that note, the Wanandi brothers also fund that famous pro-communist think-tank the CSIS (anyone who knows Indonesian politics will catch my sarcasm). The CSIS, which carries a bust of the famous pro-communist general Ali Moertopo (early new order intelligence architect), advised that other famous communist Soeharto on security policy and the invasion of East Timor. Now why did they invade East Timor ? I think it was Gough Whitlam, Australia’s then Prime Minister (1975), who said “we don’t need a Cuba on our doorstep.”

    Back to the drawing board, Ross. Have a big slurp of that Bintang in a filthy Jalan Jaksa dive and get back to the Commodore ’64 computer or rusty typewriter you use for these things.

  7. avatar Rambutan says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 9:50 am

    Most of Indonesian newspapers have a leftist bias when it comes to economic policy, generally favoring protectionism and strong state intervention. The Jakarta Post is no exception although overall it is fairly balanced. There are only a few real free-marketeers in Indonesia, mostly academicians and maybe Trade Minister Pangestu and some government officials.
    On another note, who cares what Jakarta Post writes. It only caters to the expat community and is largely ignored by Indonesians.

  8. avatar Ross says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

    Achmad is very free with his accusations of stupidity, but fails to rebut the facts of bizarre reporting I mentioned. If the proprietors have links with CSIS, then good for them. They should send their reporters to its premises and read up on what sort of hero Ho Chi Minh was, if books are available. To laud a tyrant like that is unacceptable or does Achmad think that a paean of praise for Hitler would be just fine too? And why does this CSIS-linked paper so keenly commit itself to the rehabilitation of PKI types who haven’t noticed that the first requirement for rehabilitation in a democracy is repudiating their anti-democratic antecedents.
    Bintang is okay, but ‘a filthy Jaksa dive?’ Too proletarian for your sort, comrade? Where do Achmad and his limousine liberal jet-set hang out? Five-star joints only?
    ‘A rusty typewriter?’ Hard to use one of the latter to submit posts on the internet, but
    Achmad’s grasp of hi-tech maybe exceeds his anaytical thought-processes.

    He seems to think that rich men are immune to the marxist virus, neglecting to recall the role of the upper classes in spreading it – Burgess, Maclean, Philby, Blunt, all British traitors, friends to our enemies, and they were all rich brats. Soros’ wealth matters only in how he uses it – and he is using it to hurt America. Ahmad is stupid if he thinks Soros’ screwing with currencies precludes him from having a political agenda.
    Cultural marxism is a clear and present danger which exists aplenty in most Western countries and by virtue of the way Indonesia and other Asian nations borrow academic resources, it will spread here.
    Indeed, if Achmad is really Indonesian (despite his name, he talks the talk of the Anglo-Saxon chattering classes) he seems a good example of C.M.’s expansion, but my old red adversaries at uni were at least able to engage in debate.

    But Achmad? No arguments, just silly abuse about dives and typewriters. No refutation of statements, merely skipping over the examples I quoted. Irrelevant asides about CSIS- so what if the owners of the JP contribute to it. Their paper is resource-starved, so maybe they should spend some of their CSIS donations on hiring non-left journos, and cut off whatever they pay to the ‘opinion’ writers who have no real value to its columns.

    “Liberal” in the American sense was once quite civilised, with guys like Senator Moynihan, who understood American values and enunciated them. But nowadays we have Hitlery and the ACLU in the ascendancy and a whole different ball-game, courting the worst elements in society and eager to preside over further steps down the Gadarene Slope.

    Of course I am conservative, and, again, I wonder when conservatives will ever get a fair shake out of the JP. With all due respect to Rambutan, yes, expats are JP’s main readership and locals don’t care what it says, but its virtual monopoly is very hard to put up with. It is no longer just irksome but boring to read week after week all about those poor PKI reds, or to get only Australia’s socialist viewpoint, when there are many Aussie and American people who could present alternative angles on all manner of subjects. The visually appealing Julia (not Perez, but Suryakusuma) rarely writes anything without shoving her left-liberal bias and misconceptions down our throats.

    I am aware that most bloggers on this channel are leftish, to some degree, but don’t any of you think that one-sided media can be tiresome, even to those who agree with that one side? Considering the other man’s point of view, distasteful tho Achmad may find that prospect, is no bad thing.

  9. avatar Rambutan says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    Maybe you should read Republika. There you can get your fair share of conservative view points, albeit conservative Islamic.

  10. avatar Djoko says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    Not to necessarily taking sides with either Achmad or Ross, but…

    I wonder when conservatives will ever get a fair shake out of the JP. With all due respect to Rambutan, yes, expats are JP’s main readership and locals don’t care what it says, but its virtual monopoly is very hard to put up with. It is no longer just irksome but boring to read week after week all about those poor PKI reds, or to get only Australia’s socialist viewpoint, when there are many Aussie and American people who could present alternative angles on all manner of subjects

    I have also wondered about this. I particularly wondered about it during the Jakarta pilkada when a party promoting conservative Islamic values (the PKS) was routinely savaged in the JP, being all but branded the Taliban of Indonesia. Besides the odd one or two pieces throughout the campaign, the general line of ‘religious social conservatives are evil’ held firm. Would fairer treatment of religious parties in Indonesia in this regard also be acceptable in your (desired) shake up of the JP?

    The Jakarta Post is left wing. (It’s liberal – in the American sense. But that depends where you are on the spectrum. In your case, it’s the right of Gengis Kahn, so everything looks left).

    The visually appealing Julia (not Perez, but Suryakusuma) rarely writes anything without shoving her left-liberal bias and misconceptions down our throats.

    It seems to be coming increasingly difficult for anyone to write an opinion piece about anything (in a lot of press throughout the world) without frothing at the mouth about their ‘liberal-leftwing-communist-stalinist-treehugging-hippy’ or ‘facist-rightwing-biblebashing-fundamentalist-nazi-capitalist’ adversaries (depending on who is writing). I only mention this because in some of the pieces I have read of yours before Ross, at times the thing which sticks out in my mind once I’m done reading the piece is not your point (which often there is a good point to be made), but how much of a vendetta you have against the ‘left’, considering how pretty much everyone you rail against has all manner of categories of ‘red’, ‘mao/ho-chi-min’, ‘commie’ or ‘lefty’ attached to them. I’m not sure if you’re going to take that as a criticism or what, but I’m just interested if any others who have read Ross’ stuff before have walked away with that kind of impression as well.

  11. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 16th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    To be honest, Ross, I couldn’t get through your post: it was just too long. Brevity is a virtue in journalism, one that the Post has mastered to a far greater degree than yourself.

    I’m just addressing your central argument: the Jakarta Post has a left-wing bias. Forgive me for ignoring most of the text; too long, too verbose, too much white noise.

    Let’s just get to the core of things.

    - JP is left-leaning, even Marxist.
    - Soros is a communist.

    On the JP being left-leaning. Looking at the editorial pages, they’re fairly and squarely in the liberal camp. Endy Bahyuni, the editor, took a Nieman at Harvard. Sometimes on social issues, he’s a bit lefty the way they are in Boston. Often, though, they take a liberal stance, which the lefties would call right-wing.

    Your problem, Ross, is you’ve imported the intellectual baggage of the 1950s.

    Ross. It’s the 21st century.

    Marxism, Communism, even cultural or intellectual Marxism, doesn’t have much bite anymore.

    Finally:

    - Read some H.L. Mencken. See what he had to say about brevity. Keep It Simple Stupid.
    - Get with the program, pal. U.S.S.R is gone. Cultural marxism’s a trendy ideology in some campuses, but has about the credibility you do in the real world.

    Your good friend, Achmad.

  12. avatar colson says:
    November 17th, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    Worrying questions indeed.

    Are we under the threat of cultural marxism?
    Are most bloggers leftist?
    Is Soros a left winger?
    Were the 1965 victims actually communist totalitarian perpetrators?
    Is JP a kind of crypto communist periodical?

    Or should we relax because this entry is

    - satire (“Hitlery Clinton” is a very witty joke, isn’t it)?
    or
    - comedy (“Soros as the leading character in charge of the axis of evil”)?
    or
    - a reactionary outcry (“I’m announcing the apocalypse, but nobody seems to notice”)
    or
    - just luny?

    I take it it’s the last one.

    (Btw: For a rather more nuanced approach to opinions that don’t match with right wing extremism : Harry Poeze – “Tan Malaka – Vilified and forgotten; the left-wing movement and the Indonesian Revolution, 1945 – 1949″)

  13. avatar Teng says:
    November 18th, 2007 at 6:07 am

    ‘poor victims,’ aka PKI communist totalitarians, who suffered so much in 1965; (no doubt many did suffer, but some of them assuredly deserved to

    1.000.000 people died, probably many of them not even member of the PKI. But let’s just go along on your train of thought and say 40% of them actually were member of the PKI… was this really what they ‘deserved’? They never took arms against anyone… and even though their ideolygies might offend you.. is death really their just end?

    If I have to chose between your facist ideas (funny how you call Hillary Clinton “Hitlery”, while you yourself resemble the man more) or the PKI, I will chose PKI any day.

  14. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 7:18 am

    WP – they should have directions on their website. Submissions done by e-mail these days. Merdeka !

  15. avatar Oigal says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 8:04 am

    Poor Ross really is a one trick pony (ok two tricks, “The Reds are coming and my friends are all Gay”.

    I do enjoy reading his posts if only for the Rabid Howlers;


    into causes such as abortion rights, gay rights, drug legalization, voting rights for felons, euthanasia, and rights for immigrants and prostitutes

    Does this mean you are against any rights for immigrants and prostitutes (particularly in countries like Indonesia where often there is little economic choice for a significant amount of women..You think they like doing that or just perhaps they are trying to survive?).

    Euthanasia is difficult discussion for anyone, but surely the right to die with dignity is woth more than just a swipe of the Ross’ moral cloth.

    Drug Legalisation, perhaps not in my opinion but then again the current “War” besides creating premium pricing does not do much.

    Of course, not happy with that Ross then wades into the Australian Republician Debate with “Australian’s anti-monarchist article, simmering with resentment against Australia’s beautiful and popular flag” . It fact the flag is not that popular with the majority of Australians and a recent vote very nearly saw Australia change into a Republic, however Australian’s distrust of politicians and any change to a democrary that has worked for a look time over took the want for Flag Change. The Republician debate is far from over and will eventually occur (Disclosure: I actually voted against the change as I didn’t trust the alternative model presented for a Republic not from any great desire to keep the Union Jack in the corner of the Flag).

    This reflects the situation in America, where the wealthiest elements, super-rich dynasties like the Kennedys and the Heinz-Kerry and Gore family fortunes, have taken sides against the wong cilik,

    As opposed to Bush and his ilk ???

  16. avatar Ross says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 8:55 am

    So Achmad slags me off without even having read my post in full. Well, in that case I shall submit even more in case he’s up early this Monday.

    The JP’s poor standards – it also seems to prostitute itself in the service of the European Union. Lavish (presumably paid) ads appear with ‘deep’ messages from various Brussels apparatchiks, which are then accompanied by ‘news’ reports giving similar quotes on the E.U.’s largely mythical virtues. Eurosceptic opinions are equally largely ignored (this mirrors the BBC in the UK, which admitted to an ‘institutional mindset’- aka bias – in favour of the Europhiles.)
    I sent the JP a letter pointing out the fascist antecedents of some of the EU’s ‘founding fathers’ after one particularly shoddy report but since then have not bothered to seek a fair hearing, since they wouldn’t publish it. Before anyone tries to say the EU is a ‘Western’ bastion, think about their antipathy to open government, bullying of member-states who abhor the Euro-elite’s ideology and the hostility to meaningful consultation on the integration issue (no more referenda allowed as they don’t get the required answer) Have a read at former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky’s critique. He compares the supranational state they’re constructing with the defunct USSR. But no doubt he’s one of Colson’s ‘loonies,’ or Teng’s ‘fascists.’

    Fascist-lunatic? Colson and Teng only chip in to insult, so I’ll skip them in the interests of Achmad’s brevity request.

    It is incredible that so many people -on this site- fail to recognise the existence, much less the threat, of cultural marxism. It has proven much more successful than its party political versions, esp. in the media. Journos these days are disproportionately divorced from public opinion. Indeed, one Aussie specimen was kind enough to decree that anyone outside his narrow left-lib sphere should take a hike and find another career! (that was a notorious man named Marr – I read the other side’s output avidly, something Achmad should try, but then studying opposite points of view seems not his style)

    Ogle’s back. Surprised he didn’t attack Peter in another thread for saying exploitation of kids was ‘a shame.’ Ogle went loopy when I used such a mild phrase about commie-terminating once, but nice to see he’s calmed down. I’ll turn to his points next week.

    Having had to go ‘home’ for a while recently, I missed Jakarta. Its charms are elusive to those who haven’t lived here, but it is wrong to turn a blind eye to the negative aspects of life in the Big Durian, such as the poor quality of its English language-media, These failings on the JP’s part merit discussion, but why such idle, snobbish comments about the lower-class milieu where Achmad thinks I eat my lunch or the factoid of my rusty old poor man’s type-writer (actually it’s an IBM laptop! – second-hand, alas, because I’m not as wealthy as he and his fellow-’liberals’ tend to be.) Still, as long as the likes of Colson are sufficiently upset to have to resort to such mindless abuse, I feel I’m not entirely wasting my time!

  17. avatar Oigal says:
    November 19th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    Surprised he didn’t attack Peter in another thread for saying was ‘a shame.’

    Although the above has nothing to do with the current thread it does represent a new sewer level for you. Wow you really refine tacky! Exploitation of kids is a hell of lot more than a shame and the inference that I or anyone else on this site may think otherwise is new and repulsive low even for you.

    However, “liberal” use of metaphors seems to be a habit of yours though.
    “commie-terminating once” this of course is one of Ross’s cute terms for government sanctioned mass murder (It may come as a logic surprise to discover because I think that was wrong does not mean I support mass murder of any other groups of people communist, anti communist or any other group of people). Is it really so hard to understand, the moral principle involved.

    Now correct me if I have got this wrong, in your world, Rupert Murdock is a closet leftie, George Soros is a confirmed leftie (personally I would have gone for evil rich bastards..but lefties???) and Fox is balanced but moving to the left?

    of us who are right of centre That would be me Ross, you on the other hand could not see the centre with the Hubble telescope from where you are.

  18. avatar Dragonwall says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 7:32 am

    I suppose they can’t see straight..

  19. avatar Ross says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    Oh, dear! Poor Wee Robbie Ogle has got his shorts in a twist again. Just glanced in, meaning to leave the pinkos to fume for a week but Ogglet is too tempting a target with his bilious nastiness. His skill at missing the point appears to be genuine.
    The point was that he raged at me for saying the death of the dupes of communism in 1965 (as opposed to Aidit and Co who had no grounds for complaint) was ‘a shame.’ Not strong enough. His ally Peter said elsewhere that exploitation of children was ‘a shame,’ but got no crits from Ogle, who is clearly a man of selective indignation.

    Of course pedophile crimes are more than ‘a shame,’ and ought to incur the death penalty (another issue Ogglet shied away from the last time we clashed. Bali Bombers are perhaps on his list of protected species? I will be happy to stand corrected.

    His claim to be right of centre is no doubt true if one compares him to Pol Pot or even Harry Hay, well-known Communist and founder of the pedophile movement in America. It’s all a matter of perspective, but why try to reason with somebody whose idea of intelligent rebuttal is limited to ‘tacky’ or ‘sewer’ or ‘bloodthirty old fascist.’
    You, Little Og, are on the same level as Colson, incoherent with horror that his puerile assumptions about the world around him can be challeneged.
    Murdoch is a known anti-monarchist (is that left or right?) His main concern is lining his pockets and his patriotism was sold for a US passport to greater riches. No hero, and his media do endorse left candidates as well as right.
    Soros could have backed the Republicans but chose the Democrats (which is left, which is right, Ogster?) He bankrolls leftist outfits like MoveOn to make his chosen party even more left.
    Fox News…Read a few things other than the JP, Wee Robbie, and you might learn that Fox, while it began as fair and balanced, is moving left -it handed out $10000 hard cash to a pro-pervert journo convention (NGLJA) in September last year. Left or right, Oggo, or can you not tell the difference when it stares you in the face.
    Right! (not left) I am giving it a rest till next week no matter how inane Og’s retorts may be. Some of us have a life outside the blogsphere!.

  20. avatar colson says:
    November 20th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    @Ross Esquire: Is it possible to insult a column? For that is what you accuse me of.

    I want to stress that I don’t have any opinion about you as a private person- probably you are a very decent father and husband, working hard for your living. I don’t care. Actually what I have done is pointing out that, in my humble opinion, the column (which tends to insult people like Pramoedya Ananta Toer, by the way) consists of totally crazy assumptions, sometimes shocking hyperboles and a very unusual logic.

    I take it for granted you don’t mind that if you choose for polemics yourself, you get answers which are controversial.

    Keep writing.

  21. avatar Oigal says:
    November 23rd, 2007 at 11:06 am

    YAWN

  22. avatar Janma says:
    November 23rd, 2007 at 11:56 am

    ross said….

    Harry Hay, well-known Communist and founder of the pedophile movement in America.

    There is a pedophile ‘movement’ in the US?

  23. avatar Ross says:
    November 23rd, 2007 at 2:11 pm

    The weekend looms, and a moment to thank Colson for his gesture of courtesy (I really don’t mind insults if there is a concomitant effort to refute my case with facts -alas, nitwits like Oggly can’t, so they fall back on childishness, like ‘YAWN’ )
    I must challenge Teng on his ‘million’ dead in 1965/6 (most say 500000 max) on both sides of the conflict.
    And alas, Janma, there is indeed a well-organised pedophile movement in the USA, called NAMBLA. It was founded by the said Communist Party hack, and has long had the moral support of so-called ‘gay rights’ organisations. Here’s part of an article by Reed Irvine of AIM; there’s a lot more on the web.

    ‘NAMBLA has not been the main organizer of any homosexual rights march, and it has been banned from some gay rights parades, but members of NAMBLA have been accepted by the homosexual movement. As Reed noted in his letter to the Times, the International Gay & Lesbian Association, ILGA, had accepted NAMBLA as a member and eighty percent of ILGA’s members had voted for resolutions favorable to NAMBLA. The group reversed course when it was trying to retain its status as a non-governmental organization at the UN. The U.S. was pressuring the U.N. to expel ILGA unless it kicked the pedophiles out.

    The founder of the modern homosexual movement, Harry Hay, was a prominent supporter of NAMBLA. This story is told in a book, The Trouble With Harry Hay, which is sympathetic to Hay, who was also a communist. What’s more, this was instrumental in developing the homosexual movement. The book notes, “All of his C.P. [Communist Party] activities were useful training for unforeseen political challenges. Many formulas of Marxist theory”¦have obvious implications for the challenges he faced in conjuring a gay movement out of nothing.” ‘

    So the queers stand condemned. Child-molestation is not an issue for them.

    Personally, I’d put things like Hay and his NAMBLA chums beside Amrozi when the great target practice day dawns, but of course Orrible Oggle will doubtless defend perv propagandists on ‘civil rights’ grounds. That’s what left-libs, especially those who haven’t the wit or guts to argue, always do. And I renew my call for Wee Rabbie Ogle to fess up- is he one of those Amnesty types eager to save the skins of mass-murders Amrozi and Co?

  24. avatar Subrata says:
    November 23rd, 2007 at 2:36 pm

    There you are Ross MK, the ultra conservative, royalist, disgruntled Cannuck from Stratford!

    What do you call a sixty years old unmarried man who know so much about gays and all things related and yet a homophobic? ………. still in the closet!! :D

  25. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    November 24th, 2007 at 8:39 am

    Ross,

    The JP didn’t publish it because you don’t bother to write well. There are simple rules of English expression (let the nouns and verbs do the heavy lifting, plain and simple words etc), that you ignore, the same way you ignore personal higene. Some might argue that your low IQ is genetic, but I think it’s more a case of life-long personal neglect.

    Unstructured, rambling, unfocused writing – like your posts on the JP are not only a form of rudeness, but also will turn people off. Why do you think professional writers like to sentences short and snappy ? Even when they don’t, their writing flows, so in a way, the ideas are still discrete units.

    Your writing is like a 3-year old kid taking a meal and mashing it all together. One of the reasons I enjoy insulting Oigal so much is because (most of the time), his writing is clear. In your case, I’d like to insult you more, trust me, but it’s too much of a chore to get through.

  26. avatar Oigal says:
    November 25th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    A truely long and convoluted ramble Ross, but once again you disappoint. Seriously you promised you would not back until next week..oh well..some things are sent to try us.

    Personal insults really don’t enhance your views but I guess you have to go with what you have. Refuting your case, I am not even sure what your case is other than a meaningless ramble against a political system that has by and large already refuted by history.

    Your other tirades, where anyone who happens to find your rants amusing is suddenly a supporter of the Bali Bombers or Homosexuals or Pedofiles is beyond bizarre. Paranioa can be treated you know.

    Interestingly though, I am in principle against Capitial Punishment it is particularly dangerous in countries with weak or corrupted justice systems. Of course, I do confess that does leave one in awkward moral position when it comes to people (?) like the Bali Bombers. I would suggest I am not the only person in this particular boat (by the way, as for my absolute position of that issue is well known by those that matter, not a box where you fit by any terms). However, the subtle nuances of such issues would be well beyond some one such as yourself Ross.

    Never the less it is breath-taking on how you have managed in your own mind to tie-up Marx, The Left Wing JP, the bali bombers, Homosexuals, Pedophiles as somehow all interconnected. I would suggest that its of dubious merit to suggest that someone’s politics also defines their sexual activities. If that is the case then I can see why you were so upset when Hoover was outed as a cross-dresser (amongst other things) as it would appear that you both reside firmly in a position of the political spectrum that is rarely visited by rational humans.

    I must challenge Teng on his ‘million’ dead in 1965/6 (most say 500000 max) on both sides of the conflict. Do try and read a bit more Ross

  27. avatar Ross says:
    November 28th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    Being accused of being a faggot is an insult too far, especially from someone who can get neither my age nor my status right!
    If ‘Subrata’ knows where I was born, perhaps he might not be unaware that I have indeed been through the marital mill, and it would take more than one divorce to discourage my interest in normal relationships.
    ‘Blood-thirsty old fascist’ I can take (from the Oglet who complains of being insulted!), even Achmad’s patronising condescension about my writing style, rich, given his ponderous and rather turgid tracts, but a poofter- no way, Jose!

    Methinks Subrata doth protest too much. If I meet him, he might scratch my eyes out!

    As for other comments, Oglet finally owns up to being anti-death penalty, which is a refereshing burst of clarity, but still ignores the facts of marxism and deviancy going hand in hand, despite clear evidence. He urges me to read more but won’t read himself, up to him…but please don’t pretend to be right of centre. Such a closed, narrow little mind is almost ipso facto leftist.
    As for Achmad’s comments on the personal hygiene of somebody he has never met, never mind my I.Q., (did he make it past kindergarten, BTW) that rather sums up his calibre as a debater.
    If anybody cares to refute the various facts mentioned in my posts, fire away. Achmad, Ogletto and their sort appear to be spiralling downwards towards gibberish, so bring on some new challengers, please.

  28. avatar Soeharja S. says:
    November 28th, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    There was some debate a while back about banning foreign gays from working in Indonesia.

    There are some schools in Indonesia, which employ exclusively gay men expatriates and this has resulted in some horrific abuse of children, as the gays can get out of control in Indonesia.

    Schools should be vigilant against the gay expatraites, as employing them is an insult to Islam as well.

    I think that the communist is not as bad as the gay, but both will go to hell for their actions.

    In Ross country I think that most gays are also communist.

  29. avatar Subrata says:
    November 29th, 2007 at 1:37 am

    Ross said’

    If ‘Subrata’ knows where I was born, perhaps he might not be unaware that I have indeed been through the marital mill, and it would take more than one divorce to discourage my interest in normal relationships.

    I wasn’t going to bring this up, but since you brought it up; exactly my point, you were married to women. Probably you’ll be more successful if you married a man ………….. :D :D :D :D

  30. avatar Teng says:
    November 29th, 2007 at 5:50 am

    ‘Blood-thirsty old fascist’ I can take (from the Oglet who complains of being insulted!), even Achmad’s patronising condescension about my writing style, rich, given his ponderous and rather turgid tracts, but a poofter- no way, Jose!

    This says enough about you as a person. You consider sexual orientation (which a person is born with) as a bigger insult than a “blood thirsty old facist”. Personally I consider facists a lot more disgusting than homosexuals

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