National Insults

Jul 2nd, 2007, in News, by

Indonesia has suffered a great number of insults to its pride and integrity recently.

Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) leader Hasyim Muzadi said on June 30th that Indonesia had recently suffered two terrible and embarrassing blows, the dancing resurgence of the South Moluccas Republic movement (Republik Maluku Selatan, (RMS)) in Ambon, and the banning of Indonesian Airlines from European airspace, and had to carry out some serious introspection to see what was wrong with the country. antara

The ban on Indonesian airlines going to Europe and the attempt to raise the RMS flag in front of the president at an official ceremony in Ambon are humiliating "blows".

Hasyim Muzadi
Hasyim Muzadi.

The RMS incident showed that the integrity and unity of the Indonesian state was still at risk, while the airline banning was a great insult to the country.

This insult is hard to reject because it is based on technical standards and Indonesia is really sub-standard in this area.

However some other events which had lowered the country recently, such as Indonesia's signing of UN Resolution 1747 against Iran and the signing of an extradition treaty with Singapore, could not be accepted and had to be resisted.

A further issue, the new law on foreign investment, was a sign of neo-colonialism, he said, was a sell-out of the country to foreigners, and threatened Indonesia with inlander (native, third class citizens in the Dutch colonial sense) status.


38 Comments on “National Insults”

  1. avatar sm4lange says:

    What does Mr. Hasyim Muzadi knows about economics when he is only a religious teacher. If Indonesia is to retain the old Laws on investments, then the country will not progress or move forward, towards the end, who suffers the most, not him, but the ordinary people. Further, if Indonesia is afraid of Neo-colonialism, then its wise for the country not to sign any trade agreements. He should ask himself, why are the countries in Nusantara Utara (Brunei, Malaysia & Singapore) is prospering while Indonesia (Nusantara Selatan) is far way behind.
    As for the EU decision to ban Indonesian airlines, it is the fault of the Indonesian government for their delay in submitting their report.

  2. avatar Berlian Biru says:

    Whenever the Queen of England visits New Zealand there is almost always some Maoris who insist in insulting her by baring their backsides at her whenever her motorcade passes by.

    The Queen always responds in the same way; a polite smile, a little wave and on she goes past lines of flag waving schoolchildren. I think this has been going on now for about forty years and one gets the impression that it’s almost part of the ceremonial now and the Queen would be slightly disappointed if it didn’t take place.

    When SBY can take such affronts with the same dignity and good grace as an octogenarian English lady then he will have proved that he and his nation have gained political maturity.

  3. avatar Dimp says:

    Just read about SBY decinding to ban EU airlines in Indonesia and asking Indonesian not to fly with EU airlines. What the? What sort of government do we have in Indonesia? This decision was not logical and only rely on blind nationalism of some idiotic government officials. How can Indonesia be run by these idiots? We are doomed I tell you, DOOMED!!!.

  4. avatar sm4lange says:

    It seems that our Indonesian Ministers are not doing their homework well and each time when anything happen/s, the president has to step in to have things corrected and instruct his minister/s on what to do. Hence to say, from the members of the DPR/MPR right down to the ministers there is no competency even though they can ‘flash’ their credentials (like have a university education or what ever it is) they are not qualified to represent the people nor are they qualified to hold public office. The fault of the banning of Indonesian airlines to Europe, is the fault of the officials concern and they should be fired from their current position/s. Its either they are slow in arresting the situation or they have not done anything at all and this is to say that their attitude is more like to ‘tidak apa’ and why worry. When something happens, a lot of rubbish is being let go to the press. Its time that Indonesia, revamps the entire machinery of state including the laws so that the people and country can prosper and move forward. My call upon Dr. H. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, our president, to review and put in order into the machinery of state and revise the laws (undang-undang) of Indonesia once and for all even though there many who will not like it one bit, for example, Mr. Amien Rais.

  5. avatar Raden says:

    Indonesia has suffered a great number of insults to its pride and integrity recently.

    Yes, for example :
    – export smoke from Riau/Kalimantan to Singapore, Malaysia
    – crashing domestic airlines many times
    – corrupting money which are supposed budget allocated for Haj Pilgrimage.
    – drilling oil but creating catastrophe of mud-flow & incapable of compensating the Porong victims but protecting the ministry who owned the oil company culprit
    – chasing the ‘illegal churches’, ransacking Jesus pictures & statue, insulting the Christians minority
    – terrorising Christian/Catholic primary & secondary schools & sunday schools with all kind of paper issues
    – caning young couples who are kissing in Aceh because Syariah Law prohibit to do so
    – releasing Tommy Suharto’s money while he was in jail because of corruption trials
    – shouting & condemning Singapore on the subject of extradition treaty all the time there were domestic issues that local government is incapable capturing the corruptors culprits
    – burning, looting & raping their own citizen of Indonesian Chinese race during May 13 – 14 – 15 -16, which were demonstrating if Indonesia is the number ONE & advance country in setting up a systematic AMOK which is uniquely Indonesian word that you can not find in any dictionaries. AMOK = you can do whatever above the law to the minority !
    – etc

    Then so what? Who cares about Garuda was banned from landing in EU? After all it is just another insult anyway.

  6. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Great huh. Indonesia was whinging about the low income from tourism. I guess next time they whinge they will know why. Cos no one is flying in perhaps?

  7. avatar Peter says:

    Who elects these people? Or are they even elected? Its too bad Indonesia was colonized because now its leaders have developed a schizophrenic way of dealing with the rest of the world. The whole country seems to be a “hot mess”, as my Jamaican friends would say.

  8. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Pete, the Islamic mentality, my friend. The feeling of being helpless, used and blaming the rest of the world for your woes is inherent to all moslem countries.

  9. avatar Bondy says:

    Hi Aluang,
    Don’t blame the Religion. It is just that Indonesian people are not smart enough to rule their country. You should see Malaysia, it probably more islamic than Indonesia but still better. So.. I think Indonesian people have to start learning from other countries..

  10. avatar Shiva says:

    Bondy Says:

    Don’t blame the Religion. It is just that Indonesian people are not smart enough to rule their country. You should see Malaysia, it probably more islamic than Indonesia but still better. So.. I think Indonesian people have to start learning from other countries..

    Learn from Malaysia

    ‘Trafficking in Persons Report 2006’ put Malaysia and a dozen other countries like Burma, Iran, North Korea and Syria among other countries in the Tier 3 of “worst offenders.”

    Reflecting conditions in Malaysia and elsewhere Rice said weak law rendered foreign workers vulnerable to abuse in both private homes and work sites. The report noted that Malaysia had tabled in parliament a tough anti-human trafficking law but, despite that, has “failed to fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so.”

    Malaysia has not punished acts of trafficking, provided adequate shelters and social services to victims, and protected migrant workers from involuntary servitude. “The government did not establish a government-run shelter for foreign trafficking victims that it had announced publicly in 2004,” the report said.

    “Without procedures for the identification of victims, the government continued to treat some trafficking victims as illegal immigrants, and arrest, incarcerate, and deport them,” the report said, adding, that as a regional economic leader approaching developed nation status Malaysia has the resources and government infrastructure to do far more in addressing the issue of trafficking in persons.

    “The Malaysian government needs to demonstrate stronger political will to tackle Malaysia’s significant forced labour and sex trafficking problems,” the report said in a damning lengthy section on Malaysia.

    Learn from Malaysia

    In Malaysia, by convention, it is generally considered that all Malays are Bumiputras and that all Bumiputras are Malay.

    Article 160 defines a Malay as being one who “professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay customs and is the child of at least one parent who was born within the Federation of Malaysia before independence of Malaya on the 31st of August 1957”.

    The Bumiputra laws stand out as an unusual public policy where preferential actions benefit the majority race of a country, and some argue that the advantages afforded to bumiputras border on outright racism.

    Others argue that the Malaysian situation at the time the policy was introduced “” where a minority ethnic group widely regarded as non-native controlled most of the locally-owned sector of the economy, due in no small part to colonial legacies which had assisted Chinese migrants to become dominant in the business sector to the point that

    Malays were largely excluded from economic life, other than as subsistence farmers, small-scale fishermen, and laborers “” was an unusual and deeply unstable situation. The government also argues that the legal and economic advantages are necessary for Malaysia to reduce ethnic conflict.

    Now here is something very revealing, that explains why Muslims are stuck in the 7th century, and the success of Malaysia, is not due to the Muslims

    Former Prime Minister Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohammad has bemoaned the extreme reliance of Bumiputras on their privileges: “We have tried to tell them if you depend on subsidies, you are going to be very weak. But they don’t seem to understand. We tell them if you use crutches, you will not be able to stand up.

    Throw away the crutches, stand up straight because you still have the capacity. I have talked about this thing and as a doctor I know very well the meaning of crutches but somehow or rather they want the easy way out. If I get an AP and I sell it and make some money, it’s all right, they say.”

    Mahathir (who was also education minister previously) also said in 2004 that Malay graduates tend to have low employment rates because “the Chinese graduates choose the right subjects so they are employable. We find that the Malay graduates, especially those from the Malay stream, can’t speak English at all.

    No matter how much value you put on a certificate, the fact remains that an employer wants somebody with whom he can communicate. The employer is not Malay, he is a foreigner. And if he’s not going to be able to communicate with you, he will not take you.”

    Furthermore, the Malay students, with Government-issued scholarships and study loans, tend to take up subjects like Syariah Law, Islamic History and other Islam-related subjects.

    Instead of choosing to learn English and taking up subjects that are of more secular tangible benefits (e.g. Engineering, Medicine, etc.) some have gone to great lengths to further their studies in Middle Eastern countries, learning Arabic in the process.

    The results of this stunning lack of pragmatism is unfortunate – in June 2006, it was revealed that a batch of 169 students sent to the Al-Azhar University in Cairo had difficulties with the Arabic language, resulting in only 5 students making it through their course.

    The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, had strongly criticized this trend among Malay students to choose “simple subjects” which are worthless in the job market.

    We can see the same trend here in Indonesia, where the Muslims choose to study islam and the chinese, tend to choose subject which make them competative on the labour market.

  11. avatar Shiva says:

    OOOPs I forgot to add that Malaysia success is not due to the efforts of the Muslims

  12. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Shiva,

    Once you work through the post, it’s surprisingly rich in logic and concrete examples. I’m also pleased with your progress in being able to construct an argument that flows from one point to the next in a sequence. Well done, Shiva !

    It’s also rich in that very Indian bad habit of rambling on, and on, and on. It’s best to keep the academic waffling to your professor, who’s forced – and paid – to read your turgid musings.

    A tip: get away from the computer from time-to-time, ask someout, preferable who you’re attracted to, and get some fresh air.

    Here’s an improvement on your post:

    The Bumiputra policy, a 30-year old (need to check) policy of positive discrimination for Malays, has done little to improve their lot. Many studies have shown they lag in English, employment, and tend to take religious subjects that to little to advance their job prospects.

    See ! Only about 80 words or so ! You can do it, Shiva, you can !

  13. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Shiva,

    I recommend you take mirror and see your beloved the Hindu India condition prior you make comments about Malaysia.

    There’s no daily infants and people death cause by lag of nutrition and foods in Malaysia while in India almost in every second you can found it easily.

    Spending your time to distribute foods to the poor India is much worthy than your useless crying in the internet.

    Regard,
    Amungme Son.

  14. avatar sm4lange says:

    Shiva, do note this. If you think that Indians are so smart, why is there so many problems in India itself. Don’t tell us what to do but look at your turf first before posting comments on other countries and how it is governed. What a big show off you and a tongue twister.

  15. avatar Shiva says:

    sm4lange Says:

    Shiva, do note this. If you think that Indians are so smart, why is there so many problems in India itself.

    I have not claimed Indians are smart, I have only pointed out the negative effects islam has had on India.

    Don’t tell us what to do but look at your turf first before posting comments on other countries and how it is governed.

    Firstly I shall point out that live here, and this is my home.

    Secondly, so as to live here I have to pay for a visa, which costs more than what an average Indonesian earns in one year, plus I have to pay 12 million rupee tax pay in advance every year.
    How many Indonesians pay tax. The chances are you do not pay tax. as 90% of Indonesians do not pay income tax.

    Thirdly, I have built a factory, and signed it over to an Indonesian, and I have trained several hundred Indonesian a trade.

    Now compare this to Muslims that go to Europe (my former turf), most of them have little education, are not able to work, so they must have financial support for them selves and their overlarge families.

    They want us to change our traditions because they get offended

    They also demand that we must make allowance for their religious beleif and we must conform to their ideals. Not only that they put bombs onto trains and buses. They put bombs outside clubs, They run amok and burn cars and buses. They rape school girls.

    They over crowd our prisons and demand that they are not served pork

    So do not talk to me about looking at my own turf.

    I have been here a long time, and have met many wonderful people, and I can truthfully say that Indonesia is a great place, so great that I feel that I should speak out, especially when so many people are to scared (due to Islamic mob violence) or do not have access to the internet

    I have been lucky to have travelled to many places such as Turkey, Morocco, Afghanistan and Iran ( before they became Hard Core islamic )

    Yes I speak out because Indonesia is now my home, and it is a great place and I dont not want Indonesia to become another sh*t hole like Pakistan Iran Afghanistan and India

    What a big show off you and a tongue twister.

    From a Muslim thats a compliment, THANX

  16. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Bondy Says:

    July 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
    Hi Aluang,
    Don’t blame the Religion. It is just that Indonesian people are not smart enough to rule their country. You should see Malaysia, it probably more islamic than Indonesia but still better. So.. I think Indonesian people have to start learning from other countries..

    Dear Bondy, do you know that minority Chinese and Indian Malaysians paid over 90% of the tax annually, and moslem contributed less than 5%. Check up on Mahatir’s laments.

  17. avatar Shiva says:

    Cukurungan Says:

    There’s no daily infants and people death cause by lag of nutrition and foods in Malaysia while in India almost in every second you can found it easily.

    This could be due to the large Indian and Chinese population (non-malays)

    Good to see the Muslims are doing something good with the money they are stealing from the non -malays ( bumiputri laws)

    There’s no daily infants and people death cause by lag of nutrition and foods in Malaysia while in India almost in every second you can found it easily.

    On another thread I gave some figures on malnatrition for under 5yr olds

    But I did not include Malaysia

    Malaysia 18%
    Indonesia 28%
    Singapore 0%
    Thialand 0%
    India 47%
    Afghanistan 48%
    Bangladesh 48%
    Pakistan 38%
    Its intresting to see that the Maldives rank 43%

    The above figures are taken from Unicef

    Spending your time to distribute foods to the poor India is much worthy than your useless crying in the internet.

    Sorry most of my time is taken up finding orders and employment for the Javanese villagers, so they can have a better quality life, which islam has failed to give them

    May-be you should try and take the daiper of your head and find the beauty of what it is to be Javanese instead of posing as an Wannabee Arabic Jihadi, because you will never be a pure Muslim, your skin is to dark.

    You forget that Mohhamed was a “white man”, and in an earlier comment you wanted all white men out of Indonesia, yet you worship a “white man”

    Good grief we have really go off topic.

    A further issue, the new law on foreign investment, was a sign of neo-colonialism, he said, was a sell-out of the country to foreigners, and threatened Indonesia with inlander (native, third class citizens in the Dutch colonial sense) status.

    Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) leader Hasyim Muzadi said

    What an oxy moron, A further issue, the new law on foreign investment, was a sign of neo-colonialism, he said, was a sell-out of the country to foreigners,

    Just look at his name, proof that Indonesia sold out to the Arabs a long time ago, Odds on that Muslims have killed more Indonesians than the dutch.

    This man Hasyim Muzadi is a walking insult to Indonesia.

    Foreign Investment, is something that Indonesia needs, without it Indonesia risks becoming another Iran.

  18. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Shiva:
    Firstly I shall point out that live here, and this is my home.

    Cukurungan:
    Firstly I shall point out that America and Australia are my home but at moment still under occupation of the white man.

    Shiva:
    Sorry most of my time is taken up finding orders and employment for the Javanese villagers, so they can have a better quality life, which islam has failed to give them.

    Cukurungan:
    My opinion the dying poor India need more help than our Javanese Villagers. Don’t worry I know the answer because you are only a low caste Hindu no matters how rich you are but only a low class person while in here you can enjoy “Islam Tenets” that remove your low caste stamp.

    Shiva:
    You forget that Mohhamed was a “white man”, and in an earlier comment you wanted all white men out of Indonesia, yet you worship a “white man”.

    Cukurungan:
    He is only an Arabic man and I never worship him but I worship to God who already determined our engagement in this forums 50 thousand years before He created universe.

    Shiva:
    Foreign Investment, is something that Indonesia needs, without it Indonesia risks becoming another
    Iran.

    Cukurungan:
    Becomes another Iran is much better than becomes India.

  19. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Hah cape…ga ada abisnya. Both promote dislike. No wonder there are wars. People like you two times millions. Life is good enjoy it. Leave your religion. Religion is sh*t. Core of all evil.

  20. avatar Shiva says:

    Chucky

    He is only an Arabic man and I never worship him but I worship to God who already determined our engagement in this forums 50 thousand years before He created universe.

    Created the Universe

    What a misinformed joker you are.

    If Allah created the universe, then it is not the same universe we live in because the planet we live on is spherical, not flat like a carpet as described in the koran

    Quran, 20, 53

    “He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)….”

    Nor is it egg shaped as described in the Koran

    The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: ”

    Qur’an, 79, 30

    And we have made the earth egg ( Dahaha) shaped”.

    The Arabic word Dahaha means an expanse, yet Muslims will try and say that Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape.

    So much for Allah creating the universe.

    In fact according to the Koran Allah did not no much about earth, let alone the universe

    As regards what Muslims think about the moon and the stars, they believe that they are part of the creation of Allaah, and as such can neither benefit nor harm people, and they do not have any influence over events on earth. Allaah has created them for the benefit of mankind.

    Qur’an, 2, 189

    “They ask you (O Muhammad) about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage”¦”

    Wait it gets better

    Qur’an, 67, 5

    “And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the shayaateen (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire.”

    According to Koran, Allah stays above the Sky which is far away from Earth. It is so miraculous that He did not post any messages to His messenger about the Solar System which contains the Earth, Sun, Jupiter, Mars, Pluto, and so on. Yet supreme Allah just mentions about the Sky, Sun, Earth, Moon, Stars, etc which can be seen with open eyes from the deserts.

    Pre-Islamic Arabs had no scientific astronomy. Their knowledge of stars was limited to what they observed regarding the rising and setting of stars, and the koran reflects this which is void of any thing about the universe except the claim that Allah created it

    There is no doubt to all Muslims that Allah is almighty, but He is confused how many days he took to create the Earth and Heaven.

    In some Surah, he mentioned he takes two days (41:9), and in other s Surahs (11:7, 10:3 & 7:54), He quotes six days.

    Why wasn’t powerful Allah able to create the Earth and Heaven at a precise day?

    And why does He make mistakes to state the correct days in Holy Koran.

    Like all people of the time, the writers of the Koran made the same cosmological mistakes, including believing that the earth was not only flat but also motionless and the sun travelled around it.

    Qur’an, 21, 33

    It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit.

    – i.e., the earth doesn’t move, but all the other celestial bodies, including the sun, orbit around the earth.

    The sun was also created AFTER day and night were created on earth, according to the Koran. So the Koran doesn’t even have an elementary understanding that the sun CAUSES day and night, let alone describing a heliocentric solar system.

    Mohammed is under the impression the sun rises and sets at a particular locale on the earth:

    Qur’an, 18, 86:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring

    The koran is very clear that the earth does NOT move –

    31:9 Without pillars that can be seen hath He created the heavens, and on the earth hath thrown mountains lest it should move with you; and He hath scattered over it animals of every sort…

    16:15 And He hath thrown firm mountains on the earth, lest it move with you; and rivers and paths for your guidance…

    78:6-7 Have we not made the Earth a couch? And the mountains its tent-stakes?

    21:32 And we set mountains on the earth lest it should move with them, and we made on it broad passages between them as routes for their guidance…

    Well, there’s your proof that Allah did not know much, let alone create the universe All the quotations from the Koran are from maintream Islamic websites and your islamic own translators.

    In 1993, Shaikh Abd Al-‘Azeez bin Baaz, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, declared that the earth is flat, and that anyone saying otherwise is an atheist deserving of punishment.

  21. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @ Ihaknt

    Hah cape”¦ga ada abisnya. Both promote dislike. No wonder there are wars. People like you two times millions. Life is good enjoy it. Leave your religion. Religion is sh*t. Core of all evil.

    I see one good moslem, where is the other?

  22. avatar Shiva says:

    HEY CHUCKY

    IF THE KORAN SO GREAT AND WRITTEN BY THE ALL KNOWING ALLAH

    WHY IS IT THAT ALLAH MISSED THIS

    A newly discovered chapter in the Book of Genesis has provided the answer to “Where do pets come from?”

    Adam said, “Lord, when I was in the garden, you walked with me every day. Now I do not see you anymore. I am lonesome here and it is difficult for me to remember how much you love me.” And God said, “No problem! I will create a companion for you that will be with you forever and who will be a reflection of my love for you, so that you will love me even when you cannot see me. Regardless of how selfish or childish or unlovable you may be, this new companion will accept you as you are & will love you as I do, in spite of yourself.”

    And God created a new animal to be a companion for Adam. And it was a good animal. And God was pleased. And the new animal was pleased to be with Adam and he wagged his tail. And Adam said, “Lord, I have already named all the animals in the Kingdom and I cannot think of a name for this new animal.” And God said, “No problem! Because I have created this new animal to be a reflection of my love for you, his name will be a reflection of my own name, “and you will call him DOG.” And Dog lived with Adam and was a companion to him and loved him. And Adam was comforted. And God was pleased. And Dog was content and wagged his tail.

    After a while, it came to pass that Adam’s guardian angel came to the Lord and said, “Lord, Adam has become filled with pride. He struts and preens like a peacock and he believes he is worthy of adoration. Dog has indeed taught him that he is loved, but perhaps too well.”

    And the Lord said, “No problem! I will create for him a companion who will be with him forever and who will see him as he is. The companion will remind him of his limitations, so he will know that he is not always worthy of adoration.”

    And God created CAT to be a companion to Adam. And Cat would not obey Adam. And when Adam gazed into Cat’s eyes, he was reminded that he was not the supreme being. And Adam learned humility.

    And God was pleased.
    And Adam was greatly improved.
    And Dog was happy.
    And the cat didn’t give a damn one way or the other.

  23. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Aluang, heh? Who’s the good Muslim? And the other? Huh? Have you been watching too much Lost? Elaborate your question.

  24. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Shiva bin Sharon :
    HEY CHUCKY
    IF THE KORAN SO GREAT AND WRITTEN BY THE ALL KNOWING ALLAH
    WHY IS IT THAT ALLAH MISSED THIS.

    Cukurungan :
    Koran isn’t the book for pets and or Astronomy but the final guidance from the Creator of univese for the specific purpose of worshiping Him, creating civil society and general guidance for all kind human relationship either during peace or WAR.

    If you want peace with us, we will use “koran peace verses” if you want war with us, we will use “Koran War verses” the option is on yourself.
    We are ready for any kind of your choice.

    But if you have spare time to find the scientific errors of the koran statement, you might compile and publish it in a book and you will be nomanited for the noble prize winner.

    Shiva bin Sharon:
    Quran, 20, 53
    “He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)”¦.”
    Nor is it egg shaped as described in the Koran

    Cukurungan :
    The surface of the earth is less than 30 miles in thickness is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are the hot fluids. Carpet can also be spread on the sphere shape and not a single verse of the koran says that the earth is flat.

  25. avatar Buruh Migran says:

    “the airline banning was a great insult to the country”

    OMG! What a childish comment ever! EU banned Indonesian airlines due to safety conduct that not being followed. It is a fact that the safety measurement by Indonesian airlines are suck. Look at how many Indonesian airplanes crashed in the past few years!

    So, Bapak Hasyim Muzadi, if you do feel that national dignity so damned important, please make sure there is proper safety measurement followed by these airlines and no more airplanes crashed that caused thousands people died!

  26. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:

    Cukurungan said,

    If you want peace with us, we will use “koran peace verses” if you want war with us, we will use “Koran War verses” the option is on yourself.
    We are ready for any kind of your choice.

    Cukurungan, I think you got help from a Friend in formulating this post because the style and grammar is not what we are used to get from you.
    Please tell your advisor that nobody wants peace or war with you. We’ll just let Evolution deal with you and in the mean time try to save as many misled and uninformed Muslims as we can.

    Meanwhile Cukurungan, Friend, here is a little bedtime story from the hadith of your religion.
    Bukhari:V4B55N546 “A Jewish rabbi, Abdulla bin Salam approached the Messenger, ‘I am going to ask you three things which nobody knows except a prophet: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken in Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its mother.’ Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Gabriel has just now told me the answers.’ ‘Gabriel, from among all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews.’ ‘The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring the people from east to west. The first meal of Paradise will be caudate lobe of fish liver. As for the resemblance of a child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with the wife and gets orgasm first, the child will resemble him, and if the woman gets orgasm first, the child will resemble her.’ On that the rabbi said, ‘I testify you are the Apostle of Allah, and that Jews are liars.'”

    Let’s have another one.

    Ishaq’s Sira (Muhammad’s biography) speaks of the murder of a female poet, Asma bint Marwan. In an illiterate society, poets were the journalists of their day. Their words formed public opinion. She spoke critically of Muhammad, telling her tribe to be wary of him. Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling baby and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said, ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'”

    These events are but a few among hundreds of horrific tales of idiocy on one side and barbarism on the other described in the Islamic Hadith. Many are far worse and include the enslavement of children, rape, and mass murder. Compared to Muhammad’s own biographers the Danish cartoons look like childish innocuous comic strips.

    It’s hard to imagine that in these days a lunatic Psychopath (pbuh) like this still has more than a billion followers. Some of these are even proud to have blown up hundreds of innocent human beings, Muslims and kafir alike.

  27. avatar Falcon says:

    Safety has no relationship whatsoever with embarrassment, it is pure ignorant (ignoramas). Let the expert do the judgement.

  28. avatar Fir says:

    Cukurungan:

    Firstly I shall point out that America and Australia are my home but at moment still under occupation of the white man.

    You’re day-dreaming buddy! This is the problem of you guys who tend to think Muslim deserve everything in the world more than others. FYI, the aborigines were not Muslim, nor the British prisoners who first occupied Australia (and same thing for America). So how on earth can the Muslim claim their right for Australia! Pathetic!

    Cukurungan:

    My opinion the dying poor India need more help than our Javanese Villagers. Don’t worry I know the answer because you are only a low caste Hindu no matters how rich you are but only a low class person while in here you can enjoy “Islam Tenets” that remove your low caste stamp.

    Cukurungan, it’s none of your business stupid! You might be just as low as what you think Shiva might have been.

    Cukurungan:

    He is only an Arabic man and I never worship him but I worship to God who already determined our engagement in this forums 50 thousand years before He created universe.

    Cukurungan said about Muhammad:

    He is only an Arabic man and I never worship him.

    Cukurungan:

    Becomes another Iran is much better than becomes India.

    We’ll see how long Iran can last.

  29. avatar Cukurungan says:

    dewaratugedeanom :

    Cukurungan, I think you got help from a Friend in formulating this post because the style and grammar is not what we are used to get from you.
    Please tell your advisor that nobody wants peace or war with you.

    Cukurungan :

    Hu a ha ha it seemed after reading one by one of my post you’re getting smarter and smarter …Nyi blorong formulated this post for me.

    I tell you once Islam already spread in certain community, there is no turning points anymore except you dare eliminate us as on the andalusia april tragedy. The very clear example is how Turkey people still 98% moslem beside they has very close relationship with the western Christian.

    You don’t need to show any hadist to me because I won’t read it. Any hadist is a fake stories unless it be brought by a someone I trust his credibility but don’t get wrong I haven’t rights to forbid you to collect hadist and there were more than 100 thousand fake hadist you can have it for your collection no bother me at all.

  30. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    The very clear example is how Turkey people still 98% moslem beside they has very close relationship with the western Christian.

    I predict Allah is going to hit Turkey with some natural disaster. Few month ago, over a million young Turks marched onto the strict to protest islamization of their country. That will be over a million Turks in hell fire!

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