Juwono Sudarsono

Oct 22nd, 2007, in News, by

Juwono Sudarsono offers advice for democracy obsessed westerners.

The minister for Defence, Juwono Sudarsono, suggests in his blog that westerners, especially "the often insufferably condescending British", should not try to impose their obsession with liberal democracy on Burma (Myanmar) and Pakistan without taking into account the historical, cultural and economic realities of those two countries.

Westerners place too much faith in the likes of Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma, and Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan, and Sudarsono says Juwono Sudarsono neither figure is capable of offering a viable alternative to the current military dictatorships in both countries, given the two countries level of historical development currently. Like Iraq and Afghanistan, it is foolish to expect liberal democracy, with its "openness, free press, rule of law, transparency and other accountability features", to take root easily in unpromising and unfertile ground.

Sudarsono says Indonesia was once in a similar position to Burma and Pakistan, with the Suharto-military-Golkar dictatorship of the 70's and 80's, and that this was suitable for Indonesia at that time, but into the 1990's conditions changed and the old regime was no longer necessary.

Megawati Soekarnoputri, he says, making a comparison with Aung San, once struggled just to unify her own party, and the appeal of the personal charisma of her father, Sukarno, was not enough to base a political system on.

One particular problem for Indonesia, and its neighbours, has been

contending ruling civil and military elites have always been beholden to the 3 C's (Chinese Crony Conglomerates) dispensing business and monetary favours in return for political recognition and protection.

Full, educated and almost scholarly article, is Sanity Over Myanmar and Pakistan.


20 Comments on “Juwono Sudarsono”

  1. avatar Rambutan says:

    So, the Chinese are actually the real problem and not the ‘ruling civil and military elites’ that took advantage of the weak status of a minority. I knew it. Thanks for clarifying this, Minister Sudarsono.
    Oh, and BTW, defending the military regime in Myanmar seriously tarnishes Indonesia’s international democratic and human rights credentials and runs counter to efforts to enshrine human rights and democracy as shared values in the ASEAN Charter (which the Indonesians worked very hard for). Again, well done, Mr Sudarsono.

  2. avatar colson says:

    Imposing, by military force, liberal democracies on societies incapable to absorb the western ideal is absurd and bad indeed. But endorsing a fascist like, military dictatorship is even worse.

  3. avatar Raden says:

    If the Chinese Indonesian are the culprit then it is safe to get rid of them right now, the immigration & policeman are happy to perform their duty (I smell money… money), razzia, stop gating them, after all it is very obvious to identify who are the chinese then immediately renounce their citizenship & deport them to China ? Singapore ? HK ? anyway they will survive outside Indonesia. Why not ?

  4. avatar tomaculum says:

    Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla?
    Bla, bla, bla …!!!
    Blaaaa, blaaa, bllla, bla!!?

  5. avatar Andrew says:

    JS – just another lame duck in our cabinet.

    Same ol’ same ol’ – blame the _______ for the problem we have.
    Fill in the blank, I don’t even have to spell it out.

  6. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Mr Juwono Sudarsono.

    Juwono Sudarsono, suggests in his blog that westerners, especially “the often insufferably condescending British”, should not try to impose their obsession with liberal democracy on Burma (Myanmar) and Pakistan without taking into account the historical, cultural and economic realities of those two countries.

    Your work here is just trying to distract the mainframe by asserting what I deemed to have been done by Subandrio and Omar Dani in the Indonesian PKI.

    You are not putting things right but trying to indoctrinate others into believing that the 3 C’s were the main cause for the Indonesian failures.

    contending ruling civil and military elites have always been beholden to the 3 C’s (Chinese Crony Conglomerates) dispensing business and monetary favours in return for political recognition and protection

    Let me rephrase it for you. It should be

    contending ruling civil and military elites is beholden to the 3 P’s (Pribumi Crony Conglomerates) dispensing business and monetary favours in return for political recognition and protection

    Protection from what? Protection from prosecution for corruptions.

    You once spoke for Habibie for what he said of the Chinese ain’t that right?

    And that rambutan just became your first admirer in another persecution towards the Chinese.

    The whole world know that without the Chinese there would not have been the glorious days for Indonesia. Now the Indonesian government’s own military junta tries to upheave the regime is making the Chinese a scapegoat and that you too is pushing everything towards that direction so that the cause for making Chinese a scapegoat becomes a culprit.

    I am not sure how you obtain your academic qualifications or on the history if Indonesia.
    If you need I can send you a publish CIA dossier about what happened to Indonesia during the 1965 pogrom as well as the orchestrated 1998 riot and who were the culprit.

    Just because you can’t solve the Indonesian economic problems another new form of discrimination is evolving into the limelight and letting those Pri goons that had corrupted the country’s money by putting the blame on the Chinese. I think you are only befitting to be the Man-ister for Your Home Defence. Kampret.

    If you got the balls to suggest in this blogs, come on let see what you have to say.

    And as for it’s neighbors, you are referring to Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, India all these countries never have any 3 C’s that exist not even when history traces back to time.

  7. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Oh one more thing, what kind of political recognition did the Chinese receive?

  8. avatar Oigal says:

    Let me see if I have got this right, he is saying that Asians are too dumb historically, culturally and economically to be trusted with democracy..Seems rather a harsh indictment. Or perhaps I misunderstood?

  9. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Everyone: I am Juwono Sudarsono’s love-child.

  10. avatar Sputjam says:

    Democracy works in single ethnic entity. If democracy were to be applied in a multiracial context, then the minorities to be sidelined. Two countries in south america with huge immigrant population (mostly europeans) and ruled by immigrants, just turned their backs on the immigrants and voted a pribumi (native american indians). Venezuela, by Hogo sanchez and Bolivia by Juan Evo morales.

    Before these two became leaders, Venezuela and bolivia don’t really care a hoot about pribumis. They native indians were left to rot. No political power, no money, no education. Hugo got to the top, thanks to being in the military, while morales was a leader in a farmers union.

    Upon becoming leaders, they divert huge portions of budgets to the neglected native indians. This move is unpopular with the european migrants.

    Unlike the two states, Indonesia was never under the rule of migrant population, but is economicly dominated by migrants. Upon acheiving independence, the pribumis did similar unpopular moves to appease the majority.

    In the end, however, if the fundamentals are wrong, it will result in massive capital flight, as we can all see in Zimbabwe, another country dominated by a pribumi of Ndebele tribe. The shona leader, a minority pribumi in Zimbabwe, was ousted in a partnership struggle.

    If indonesia wants to progress, these two examples above, from south america and africa are good examples to learn from, when it comes to matters concerning democracy, and why, it does not work in multi ethnic entities.

  11. avatar dewaratugedeanom says:

    I have never been to Myanmar so I’m not familiar with their socio-economic conditions, but the military regime seems quite protected by China in the UN Security Council. Could it be that the military regime plays China’s card in the hope to be swept along in the latter’s economic rise?

  12. avatar Dragonwall says:

    These were excerpt from reports about

    Indonesian Revolution of 1998

    Coming to power in 1966 on the heels of an alleged coup by the Indonesian Communist Party, the government of the former general Suharto adopted policies that severely restricted civil liberties and instituted a system of rule that effectively split power within his own Golkar Party and the military.

    In 1997 and 1998 there were riots in various parts of Indonesia. Sometimes these riots were aimed against the Chinese-Indonesians. Some riots looked spontaneous and some are alleged to have been planned. Some hypothetise that pro-Suharto generals were trying to weaken the forces of democracy by increasing the divisions between the orthodox and the non-orthodox Muslims, between the Muslims and the Christians and between the Chinese and the non-Chinese. Another theory was that certain generals were trying to topple Suharto.

    On May 12th, students at Jakarta’s Trisakti University, many of them the children of the elite, planned to march to parliament to present the government with their demands for reform. The police prevented the students from marching. Some time after 5pm, uniformed men on motorcycles appeared on the flyover which overlooks Trisakti. Shots rang out. Four students were killed. At Semanggi nine students were killed (and four more the next year).[1]

    On the 13th of May there were reports of rioting in the area around Trisakti. President Suharto was attending a conference in Egypt and the military top brass went off to Malang in East Java to attend a ceremony. On the 14th of May, serious rioting took place in the Jakarta area. There were no signs of any uniformed soldiers on the streets. The absence of the normally visible military was striking during a time of unrest. Some human rights organizations allege the military’s absences as a sign that the riots were endorsed by the government.
    Indonesian ethnic Chinese assert they were the main target of the bloody riot, where allegedly Indonesian military members posed as ordinary people attacked their homes and allegedly mass raped the women. The US State Department and many human rights groups have strongly argued that the Indonesian military and police participated and incited the rioting and violence against Sino-Indonesians.[2] Over 1,000 people died during these Jakarta riots, most having died in burning malls and supermarkets but some having been shot or beaten. A government minister spoke of the damage or destruction of 2,479 shop-houses, 1,026 ordinary houses, 1,604 shops, 383 private offices, 65 bank offices, 45 workshops, 40 shopping malls, 13 markets, and 12 hotels. There have been to date no charges laid against any alleged soldier involved in such incidents, nor has any proof been forthcoming.

    A security officer alleged that Kopassus (special forces) officers had ordered the burning down of a bank; a taxi driver reported hearing a man in a military helicopter encouraging people on the ground to carry out looting; shop-owners at a Plaza claimed that, before the riots, military officers tried to extract protection money; a teenager claimed he and thousands of others had been trained as protesters; a street child alleged that Kopassus officers ordered him and his friends to become rioters; there was a report of soldiers being dressed up as students and then taking part in rioting; eyewitnesses spoke of muscular men with short haircuts arriving in military-style trucks and directing attacks on Chinese homes and businesses.
    In May 1998, thousands of Indonesian citizens were murdered and raped… The Joint Fact Finding Team established to inquire into the 1998 massacres found that there were serious and systematic human rights violations throughout Jakarta. The Team also found that rioters were encouraged by the absence of security forces, and that the military had played a role in the violence. The Team identified particular officials who should be held to account. The Special Rapporteur on violence against women… also pointed to evidence suggesting that the riots had been organized (E/CN.4/1999/68/Add.3, para. 45).[3]
    American Defence Secretary William Cohen was in Jakarta in January 1998, where he visited both Prabowo and Wiranto. The CIA chief had also been a recent visitor to Jakarta. The CIA and the Pentagon were close to both Prabowo and Wiranto.

    Wiranto and Prabowo
    There was alleged to have been a political power struggle between General Wiranto and rival General Prabowo. Both generals claimed to be loyal to Suharto. [2]
    Some of Suharto’s former allies deserted him. Wiranto allowed students to occupy Parliament. Reportedly Wiranto reported to Suharto on May 20th that Suharto no longer had the support of the army. Suharto was forced to resign on May 21 and was replaced by Habibie, his Vice President.
    In 1998 one of the key generals was Prabowo, son of former Finance Minister Dr. Sumitro Djojohadikusumo who may have once worked with the British and the CIA against Sukarno. Prabowo had learned about terrorism at Fort Bragg and Fort Benning in the US. [3] In May 1998, Prabowo was commander of Kostrad, the Strategic Reserve Regiment that Suharto had also commanded when he took power in 1965. Prabowo’s friend Muchdi was Head of Kopassus (special forces) and comrade Sjafrie headed the Jakarta Area Command. General Wiranto, the overall head of the military but largely seen as leader in title terms only, was seen by some as a political rival to Prabowo.

    Also see Singapore Centre for South East Asian Studies

    Then JS (Jack S) tell us who is the culprit. Whatever personal wrong doing a person has, it only has to do with the contitutional law permitted. Not the above.

  13. avatar Dragonwall says:

    These words were prominently spelt as follow:

    pro-Suharto generals were trying to weaken the forces of democracy by increasing the divisions between the orthodox and the non-orthodox Muslims, between the Muslims and the Christians and between the Chinese and the non-Chinese.

    Some human rights organizations allege the military’s absences as a sign that the riots were endorsed by the government.

    The US State Department and many human rights groups have strongly argued that the Indonesian military and police participated and incited the rioting and violence against Sino-Indonesians

    Can you back your statement otherwise. If you were to say that there are Chinese who were corrupt, Yes there are. What about the Pri’s? Don’t they?

    Name you a few Arifin Panigoro, The whole jing gang of Soeharto’s siblings and kins like Ibnu Sutowo, Ponco Sutowo. Bob Hasan, Fadel Muhamad and so on with the list.

    May I asked, Are you corrupt yourself? Indonesian is based on conventional law, so please prove your innocent before making such a comment let alone suggestions on democracy.

    Calling yourself Minister of Defence, you were thought to be highly and academically qualified, you should ensure the safety of Indonesian citizens from being harassed by putting these MF like Wiranto, Prabowo, Syafrie Syamsuddin, and all involved or named to be call for investigation and ensure they get to release those whom they have ordered to carry out such atrocities.

    Don’t be like the KGB, CIA, and all those playing the distraction tricks and blaming others like in the case of Romania.

  14. avatar Raden says:

    That’s why Indonesia never get the things done, no progression, as long as they allow Islam with the Arabian culture & male dominant value predatory destroying our traditional values plus rampant corruption mentality then only a bleak future we can see today. After all what can we expect when half of the women population are socially at disadvantages? Wearing tudung head to toe, no gender equality, etc etc ….

  15. avatar Dragonwall says:

    I just heard that this JS was implicated in an under table arms deal with the soviet and he is being subpoenaed to answer questions by the MPR.

    So are you corrupt? If not why others were not being called in except you?

  16. avatar Pakmantri says:

    Visit Juwono Sudarsono’s website/blog at,

    http://juwonosudarsono.com/wordpress/index.php

  17. avatar Raden says:

    oh .. in Indonesia 99% senior officers are corruptors, that is for sure (see how much they spent money to get their positions) otherwise the BUMN all profitable but it is not the case here. There is no need to demand for proof, when it comes to a tender award be it for commercials or for the tsunami relief funding (social funds) then all the ‘crocodiles’ will emerge demanding ransoms in exchange to his signatures. This is the most innovative country in the world when it comes into ‘berita acara installation’ (certificate of acceptance), wow the workflow will certainly do not confirm into the international standard practices and you must custom made it with so many signatories & moral tortures processes. Talking is cheap for JS to accuse ‘the 3C bribing this country’, look at the extra security guards in every 5 starr hotel in jakarta, who are asking for it ? are they free services by Indonesian police ? after Mei 1998 riot and today is 2007 almost 10 years later still there are so many security gates ? don’t u think this is Police Job (or JS job) to secure this country for FREE ? where got any free secured security in Jakarta heh ? …. u must pay money & the fellow will do it smilingly … is there any other capital city practicing over secure treatment ? amazing Indonesia, how can we proud of this country ?
    So who is capitalizing what & for the sake of money ?
    Pak JS, it was your jobs to secure the Indonesia peace

  18. avatar Danny says:

    I think both parts did their share in corruption issue. Who can forget about Ibnu Sutowo? Hes single handedly made Pertamina declared bankruptcy. And what is still amaze me, the money is still enough to financed all his sons to be big businessmans. I dont even sure if he was to be prosecuted, or if sentenced the punishment ever fulfil the senses of justice. And BLBI cases, most of the defendants are Chinese but they cant did it without the pribumi assistanced.

    If JS stated:

    contending ruling civil and military elites have always been beholden to the 3 C’s (Chinese Crony Conglomerates) dispensing business and monetary favours in return for political recognition and protection

    then I’m asking: Why did they (ruling civil and military elites) took it? The answer is simple. For the ruling civil: To finance their way to a more powerful position, or to maintain their power. As for the military.. well they need the money so their children can go to a better school, or his wife needs money to have a hairdo in a fancy saloon.

    So it’s more like a circle. There’s two party that needed in order for a corruption (bribe) act can happen. The giver and the taker. Both equally guilty.

    And I am a pribumi.

  19. avatar Dragonwall says:

    they cant did it without the pribumi assistanced

    I would rather put it this way.

    It should be those pejabat who are definitely pris who collaborated, with businessmen pri and chinese alike, into a scheme to misdemmeanor such an act thinking that the government will bail them out. Honestly speaking most chinese doesn’t like taking uncalculated risk in business. Undestabdable that if A doesn’t take the bait B will take it. Since it was offered why not! After all it is business. But In this case they fail to administer that the scheme will back fire sooting all the face black.

    Then we know who to point our fingers to. So he cannot substantiate the existence of 3C’s except 3P’s = Pejabat Pemerintah Pengecut.

  20. avatar purba negoro says:

    An absolute genius, patriot and supreme intellect.

    I have utmost and supreme loyalty and genuine affection to a brilliant Javanese man I have had the great honour of twice meeting.
    A man of such natural charisma and wisdom who enthralled His Highness Prince Charles.

    The whine of the guilty shall never drown out the Truth, Pak.
    The pribumi and the ABRI love you deeply and are 10000% loyal.

    Dragonwall- don’t you mean the three P’s of the our 5th columnists:
    Chinese: pengecut, pembankrutan, pembudakan

    The blood of the pribumi and stench of their perpetual collaborators’ cowardice will never wash off.
    We will never let you forget who your Masters are and that your days in our nascent Majapahit are numbered.

    Hidup panjang Bapak Ndoro Pahlawan Sudarsono- Panjengenan sanget hebat sekali.
    Anda memang kesatria untuk jaman sekarang.
    Siap Gerak! Hormaaaaaaat Bapak Menteri yang Terhormat Sri Gusti Sudarsono!

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