Javanese Terrorists

Jun 26th, 2007, in News, by

The Javanese are more likely to become terrorists than other ethnic groups.

Professor Azyumardi Azra, a liberal Muslim intellectual and former rector of Universitas Islam Negeri (UIN; State Islamic University) in Jakarta, said on June 23rd how surprised he was that most terrorists in Indonesia were of Javanese origin, given the fact that the Javanese are often not known for their strictness in religion as much as people from Sumatra and Sulawesi are.

Azyumardi Azra
Azyumardi Azra.

With the rise of terrorist bombing campaigns in Indonesia since the first Bali bombings in 2002, through to the Kuningan Australian embassy attack, the Marriot Hotel bombing, and the innumerable attacks in Poso, Central Sulawesi over recent years, most had been committed by Javanese men, he said.

Ethnic boundaries of Java island
Ethnic boundaries of Java island. (Click for full size.)

Whether Amrozi and Imam Samudera, or the recently arrested Abu Dujana (Yusron Mahmudi/Ainul Bahri) and Abu Irsyad/Zarkarsih, most were Javanese, or at least culturally Javanese. Abu Dujana, although he was born in a Sundanese part of Java, Azyumardi Azra claimed had been raised in a Javanese environment, and had chosen to hide in a Javanese part of Java, Banyumas. Non-Javanese members of terror groups, were rare, he said. okezone


53 Comments on “Javanese Terrorists”

  1. avatar Abul says:

    hmmm… I don’t think ethnicity have any connection with terrorism, most Indonesian terrorists are of Javanese origin simply because most Indonesian people are Javanese anyway, 42% of total population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia#Demographics). And those 42% have more access to (or being more accessed by) the outside world. So yeah, I don’t think that the concept “javanese is more likely to be terrorist” is 100% correct.

    Btw, is it just me, or my beloved website is really getting more and more bombastic these days?

  2. avatar Naga says:

    Another local ‘expert’ twating on about something they have no right to….

    The question ought to be, why have so many young, dissafected Javanese men turned to extremist groups?

  3. avatar Denny Crane says:

    Lock and Load for Javanese

    The issue is more to economic driven rather than politic or religion for that matter.

  4. avatar Raden says:

    The Javanese who are outside Java island are transmigrant people, they must fight for their live out-there and were given land to process for something. The Javanese in Java who maybe jobless and have their brain half of empty, those group are more vulnerable of negative ideology, it is our call to help them but not criticize them. What about Malaysian Malay who chosed to be extrimist and despite of their background were relatively with higher education system, why they chosed to be a regional terrorist?
    To counter terrorism, we must welcome our Muslim brothers to persuade theirown miss-product believers. In a bigger network, we must not let the extrimism suppress other believers like condoning behavior to chase ‘the illegal churces’. Let those churces to mushroom in this nation as muc as pesantren & madrasah are breeding in this nation with or without paper license.
    At the end, to counter terrorism, we must put soft approach, firstly within Muslim brothers, if it doesn’t work, then give chance to other religions to attract those who are in the wrong-side of his-own religion teaching (the terrorist).
    After all there are many Gereja Kristen Jawa in Central Java (salatiga, solo, jogja) which traditionally have been proven there & well accepted & well blend with Javanese culture. Why not to counter them with soft approach?

  5. avatar Arema says:

    Terrorism have nothing to do with race, full stop. A teenager should know this by logic. This “professor” must be a 5-years-old baby!

    Terrorism has a common denominator: Islam. It is just a sad coincidental fact that so far most of them came from Jawa or raised in Jawa. It could have been anyone, really, anyone unfortunate enough to be brainwashed by Osama and the gang. I’ve lived more than half of my life in Jawanese neighborhood, environment, and friends, and to me they are decent people with good manners. It is amazing to see one distorted and brainwashing teaching can make them turn away from their very respectable culture to something completely unthinkable and barbaric.

    After all there are many Gereja Kristen Jawa in Central Java (salatiga, solo, jogja) which traditionally have been proven there & well accepted & well blend with Javanese culture. Why not to counter them with soft approach?

    Definitely worth trying. But if they treat their fellow Muslims who follow Quran only as heretic, will they listen to their mortal enemies, the Christians?

  6. avatar Paul says:

    That is one stupid opinion by a local ‘expert’. I think he’s Javanese too.

  7. avatar Raden says:

    Arema,
    If the Muslim brothers majority never take action to deal with their militant brothers, then it is the duty of Indonesian gov’t to put law inorder by preventing the militants ransack the churches in West Java. This is the test to our gov’t whether we should re-elect them or not in 2008, if they are looking on cheap political backing by condoning this Muslim terrorism acts then we should expose our gov’t to the UN and other international institution. We need more people like the belated pak Munir!

    The Indonesian are get used to ‘nrimo’ & hopeful all the time for the country improvement in all aspect while those basic things like security & fairness & freedom to express our faiths are a basic human rights, it is the failure of our government if we feel those missing components.
    The solution is easy, renounce your Indonesian and migrate to other civilize country, if all of you do this, I am very sure Indonesia will suffer more because only the freak terrorist minds who like to stay in Indonesia.

  8. avatar Doadelu says:

    I think it is undestandable that Javanese are vulnerable to involve themeselves in terorist activities. In my personal perspective there are several reason of why is that:
    Firstly, the intense of life competition. This can be one factor contributes for the issue because when life is harder people will be easily trapped in to crime. This kind of crime suicide bomb is seen as “heroic” as it is, to some extent, rationalize by religion (Islam), also there will be economic guarantee ( the suisiders will be rewarded with a huge ammount of money as the reward of their suiside action. The copy of video reccording released by Noordin M Top could become a good refference.
    Secondly, most pesantren are located in Java. Pesasntren is seen as strategic locus for brainwashing. The ideology implantation will easily internalized as it is issued by ustad who are very respecful by the people. We know that most of terorist are graduated from pesantren.
    Thirdly, There is no common perception among Muslim ulamas pertaining to the interpretatyion of qoran. Every ulamas seem to have their own interpretation of the verses.
    anyway, this comment is not meant to humiliate Javanese or Islam in Java Islan. This is more as a personal opinion.

  9. avatar DoOs says:

    When there is an earthquake in yogyakarta, we see an amazing Javanese spirit, their hardship and discipline culture. Without any help from the government, the Javanese in yogyakarta with their “semangat” and “gotong royong” fixed the damages by themselves. The Javanese throughout history was one of the most advance culture who invented unique musical instruments, poetry, advance language, and medieval architecture. Unlike other tribes in Indonesia, the Javanese before colonialism have gone far to the borders of phillipines for conquest and imperialism.

    If there are more Javanese terrorists than other Indonesian ethnic groups, perhaps that there are more stupid pesantren and idiotic morons who migrated to Java because Java is the central of Indonesia. Java is the most populated island in Indonesia.

    Now I’ve been to many places in Indonesia and never ever have I seen such discipline unlike in yogyakarta, although I don’t see a majority.

    Those Javanese terrorists are not Javanese, they are Muslim.

  10. avatar Naga says:

    Javanese=discipline?

    you’re kidding right?

  11. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Friend, we Javanese are only terroris to the hypocrite, the Kafir and sometimes to the Bule. It has to be that way. With the Radens of this world, cozying up to Belanda, then Sukarno, then Suharto, we need some clear-thinking among us to keep the rest of the country on the track. We are the most halus, have the best lineage, and above all, our numbers clearly give us the right to govern Indonesia. We have at least 120 million people. What does Papua have? Aceh? Flores? (Oh that’s right, they’re too busy getting to grips with fire, the spear, and working their way up to the wheel). Friend, you know I speak The Truth.

  12. avatar DoOs says:

    Do not compare the ethnicity for it will cause disintegrity. I only talk of history and yes factually Javanese people are much more discipline proven after the yogyakarta earthquake. Some Javanese who are born from a Javanese bloodline are already contaminated with other cultures especially western cultures. But when I see the elder and the traditional families in Yogyakarta, I see the real Javanese culture.

  13. avatar Shiva says:

    DoOs Says:

    Some Javanese who are born from a Javanese bloodline are already contaminated with other cultures especially western cultures. But when I see the elder and the traditional families in Yogyakarta, I see the real Javanese culture.

    Well Islam is from the west, and it is Islam that is smothering the Javanese culture.

    Why can’t the Javanese wake up, to see their beautiful traditions slowly being destoyed by a religion that has nothing to do with Indonesia. A religion that has been the motivation of most of the blood shed that Indonesia has witnessed in it history.

    Islam has a lot of Javanese / Indonesia blood on its hands.

  14. avatar Shiva says:

    Achmad Sudarsono Says:

    Friend, we Javanese are only terrorist to the hypocrite, the Kafir and sometimes to the Bule. It has to be that way.

    And kindly tell us why it has to be that way, but before you begin, I would like to point out that you are the hypocrite.

    Firstly as your name suggests, Achmed, you are a Muslim which just happens to be an Islamic name, not Javanese, yes ?

    Now let us consider Javanese Muslims who have lived all their lives in Java, brought up sampling Javanese Culture. Muslims living in Java are not Javanese Muslims (misnomer term).

    Muslims living in Java are culturally connected to Java and live under Islamic Laws. Islamic laws are provided by Allah (swt) in the Qur’an and the Sunnah, referring to Shairah for Islamic law and not Indonesian law or any other man-made law.
    Muslims in Java are trapped in Java, that is until a worldwide Islamic Government is in place.

    Muslims are simply not permitted to accept any other laws under the injunctions of being Muslims according to Islam.

    So how can you say you are Javanese, when your loyalties are placed to a religion/culture that has nothing to do Java.

    Secondly, you use the term Kafir, which is Arabic for unbeliever or non Muslim. Also all the true javanese who do not wish to follow islam are regarded as kafir. And the Javanese culture has been around much much longer than the imported religion you follow.

    With the Radens of this world, cozying up to Belanda, then Sukarno, then Suharto, we need some clear-thinking among us to keep the rest of the country on the track.

    Keep the country on track, don’t make me laugh, I can remember May 1998, when you Java Born Muslims where slaughtering the people who where keeping this country on track.

    The only thing that you Java Born Muslims can do is to go to the islands of Indonesia and murder people to keep them on track, and not as you falsely claim of keeping the country on the right track, but force them onto the track of Islam.

    We are the most halus, have the best lineage, and above all, our numbers clearly give us the right to govern Indonesia.

    Spoken like a true Islamofascist.

    We have at least 120 million people.

    Breeding like rats, yet you cannot feed your selves properly, like the rest of the Ummah, where you always have you hands out for aid.

    What does Papua have? Aceh? Flores?

    A lot more than Java, they have Timber, Oil, Gas Minerals and gold, which is what keeps from starving.

    (Oh that’s right, they’re too busy getting to grips with fire, the spear, and working their way up to the wheel).

    The same as the Javanese, If it had not been for the “Bule/kafir”. You forget. It as the “bule/kafir” that brought corn “Jagon”, tobacco, and coffee, it was also the “bule/kafir” that brought the know-how to bring up the oil and Gas.

    The “bule/kafir” bruoght television.They also brought to Indonesia the screen you are looking into right now.

    What did the Arabs bring, nothing more than Islam.

    Java can survive without Islam.

    I wonder what Java would be like without all the things that the Bule/kafir have brought to Java.

    So the plain truth is.

    The Javanese are more likely to become terrorists than other ethnic groups, is a misleading statement.

    IT SHOULD BE The Javanese born Muslims are more likely to become terrorists than other ethnic groups.

  15. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    My, My, Mr. Shiva,

    ou are getting all hot and flustered. Why don’t you take a deep breath, a glass of water, and have in Australia what they call “a bit of a lie down.”

    I could discuss the spectacular holes and absolutely ludicrous assertion in your argument, but they mostly speak for themselves. Still, Islam is not just about vanquishing Bules, it;s also about kindness. I’ll set you straight on a few things:

    1. Can’t be Javanese and Muslim. . Friend, if a Mosque is built in Yogyakarta. What is it a Mongolian mosque ?

    Or that nice gentleman Mr. Abu Dujana. He is Indonesian by passport, Javanese by ethnicity and Muslim by religion. Think of that Venn diagram you studied before they failed you in Grade 7 math: religion, (one circle), ethnicity (one circle), nationality (one circle). See ! Overlapping but different ! Not so hard ! 🙂

    2. Muslims in Java live under Islamic laws. Um, hate to break this to you, or maybe you don’t live in Indonesia, but this country, has a secular constitution. Anyone who sat through hundreds of hours of Pancasila indoctrination could tell you that. So yes, we Muslims in theory live under Islamic spiritual laws, but have to answer to the Mahkamah Agung, MPR, Pengadilan Negeri, and those pot-bellied bastards who enforce it all, the polisi.

    3. Breeding like rats. Shiva, that’s an Indian name, no ? Well India, aside from being a 1.2 billion person-strong, water-tight argument for mandatory deodorant, ain’t exactly a poster child for family planning.

    Bro, there’s a reason we Indonesians export latex and rubber to your country: it’s a subtle Javanese hint to suit up before you wield the sword.

    Astarifirallah ! There are only so many Bannerjis and Singhs the world – and all our nostrils – can take !

    Oh – and finally: Corn came from South America, and the TVs in Indonesia are mostly Japanese. The technology that built them is ultimately based on Algebra. So if the Arabs didn’t give the Bules a leg-up, they’d still be gnawing animal bones and worshipping giant rocks at stone henge.

    Achmadeus

  16. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Come on Shiva is an Indian, our ancestors have a nice say about Indian, if we coincidentally meet an Indian and King Cobra in the same times. Take care first the Indian then the king cobra.

  17. avatar Dimp says:

    Nice one Achmad! Trully make my day. Cheers. OOT, are you still after Australian comedians, should check out The Umbilical Brothers, genius.

  18. avatar Tomaculum says:

    It is simple: in the javanese language there is a dictum: “ora jawa” (literally: not javane, meant: not understand). This dictum describe people with attitudes which are not compliant with the javanese norm (whatever the “javanese norm” is). And terrorism doesn’t belong definitively to this norm.
    Besides: read the names. There are names, which are already implemented in the javanese culture (like: Achmad, Amrin etc.). But those people (Abu Dujana, Amrozi and much more) have choosen such names to segregate themselves out of the javanese community.
    Ergo: they are no more Javanese, are they?
    (Ooooops, how many % of the formal Javanese are still Javanese?)
    So, javanese women and men, let us conserve and defend the javanese norm and throw out these “ora jawa” guys out of our community to free the javanese citizen from such destructive elements!
    And: let’s learn to use our brain and heart!
    Peace!
    🙂

  19. avatar Shiva says:

    Achmad Sudarsono Says:

    1. Can’t be Javanese and Muslim. . Friend, if a Mosque is built in Yogyakarta. What is it a Mongolian mosque?

    We are not discussing mosques, we are discussing moron that abandon their heritage.

    2. Muslims in Java live under Islamic laws. Um, hate to break this to you, or maybe you don’t live in Indonesia, but this country, has a secular constitution. Anyone who sat through hundreds of hours of Pancasila indoctrination could tell you that. So yes, we Muslims in theory live under Islamic spiritual laws, but have to answer to the Mahkamah Agung, MPR, Pengadilan Negeri, and those pot-bellied bastards who enforce it all, the polisi.

    May be you should re-read my comment.

    Muslims in Java are trapped in Java, that is until a worldwide Islamic Government is in place.

    Which a applies to, as is obvious by your remark, where you show contempt for both Indonesian law and the police.

    3. Breeding like rats. Shiva, that’s an Indian name, no ? Well India, aside from being a 1.2 billion person-strong, water-tight argument for mandatory deodorant, ain’t exactly a poster child for family planning.

    Well you can prove me wrong about breeding like rats, instead you assume wrongly that I am Indian. And resort to Tu quoque.

    Oh – and finally: Corn came from South America.

    It did not walk here by itself, it was brought here by the Dutch, along with Coffe, Cocao, Tea and Rubber.

    And speaking of rubber, may you should save some latex so Javanese Muslims to suit up before they wield the sword, then maybe the would not be breeding like rats.

    I can give credit to the Japanese, for many things, but inventing the television is not one of them.

    You can that Muslims created algebra, well if they where so clever, tell me why, they where not clever enough to implicate it.

    Could it be because, they are making false claims.

    The origin of algebra, it is certain that this technique of computation originated in India and was current around 1500 years back.

    Aryabhatta an Indian mathematician who lived in the 5th century A.D. has referred to Bijaganitam in his treatise on Mathematics, Aryabhattiya.

    An Indian mathematician – astronomer, Bhaskaracharya has also authored a treatise on this subject.

    The treatise which is dated around the 12th century A.D. is entitled ‘Siddhanta-Shiromani’ of which one section is entitled Bijaganitam.

    Thus the technique of algebraic computation was known and was developed in India in earlier times. From the 13th century onwards, India was subject to invasions from the Arabs and other Islamised communities like the Turks and Afghans.

    Along with these invader: came chroniclers and critics like Al-beruni who studied Indian society and polity.

    The Indian system of mathematics could not have escaped their attention. It was also the age of the Islamic Renaissance and the Arabs generally improved upon the arts and sciences that they imbibed from the land they overran during their great Jehad.

    The system of mathematics they observed in India was adapted by them and given the name ‘Al-Jabr’ meaning ‘the reunion of broken parts’. ‘Al’ means ‘The’ & ‘Jabr’ mean ‘reunion’.

    This name given by the Arabs indicates that they took it from an external source and amalgamated it with their concepts about mathematics.

    ——————————————————————–

    Tomaculum Says:

    There are names, which are already implemented in the javanese culture (like: Achmad, Amrin etc.).

    Just because they are implemented into Javanese culture, does not make them Javanese. What it does indicate is that Islam is slowly eroding the beautiful Javanese culture.

    Achmed is Arabic,

    ———————————————————————

    Cukurungan Says:

    Come on Shiva is an Indian, our ancestors have a nice say about Indian, if we coincidentally meet an Indian and King Cobra in the same times. Take care first the Indian then the king cobra.

    And why is that.

    Unlike your ancestors fore-fathers, the Indians chose to fight the murderous islamic hordes, instead of laying down and rolling on there backs. So my reply is your ancestors were nothing but cowards who became traitors to the Javanese Culture.

    Interesting Fact, Bali attractes people from all over the would because of ancient Javanese/Balinese culture. And when these people come to Java, it is to see the pure cultures of Indonesia.

    The same applies every where else, people travel to Islamic land to admire pre-islamic culture.

    You can’t name one Islamic Monument that tourist flock to see.

    Even the Taj Mahal, is an old Vedic temple to Shiva.

  20. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Dear Shiva,

    Just because they are implemented into Javanese culture, does not make them Javanese.

    You sure?
    What about Sudarsono? Isn’t it a javanese name?
    But: su is a Sanskrit word, and means good or great. An other example is “berita”, it means news and it comes also from Sanskrit (bharata), or kabar (from khabar, Arabic). Etc, etc.
    There are many of such words and names, also from Arabian language. A language is a non-statical value and a language is a part of a culture.
    In other languages you can find also such phenomenon.
    Currently the Indonesian tend to use names like: Abu bakar (although maybe he doesn’t have any son named Bakar) or Muhammad al Bukhari al etcetera etcetera. It sounds for my half javanese ear stil jet strange. But maybe it will be integrated in 20 -30 years?

  21. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Shiva:

    And why is that,

    Cukurungan:

    Because general perception among us an Indian is more dangerous than a king kobra.
    King kobra is only king of sneak whereas the indian is the king of the sneaky.

    Shiva :

    Unlike your ancestors fore-fathers, the Indians chose to fight the murderous islamic hordes, instead of laying down and rolling on there backs. So my reply is your ancestors where nothing but cowards who became traitors to the Javanese Culture.

    Cukurungan :

    Indian never fought and won against the islam moghul more than 400 years the indian were only servants of the moghul until once upon times the brittish took over the indian from the moghul kingdom and began so called the era british colonialism after that the Indian plight never ceased until Great Gandhi lead Indian took back India by his ability for crying and singing and not by fighting. Because Gandhi smart and he know exactly Indian are not good fighters but they are only a good dancers and singers.

    In other hand, our ancestors were the open minded and goods host for anyone, they welcomed Hindusm, budhaism and the islamic traders but chose to fight the dutch Christian traders who intended to stole our land and made nest in here.

    Shiva :

    Interesting Fact, Bali attractes people from all over the would because of ancient Javanese/Balinese culture. And when these people come to Java, it is to see the pure cultures of Indonesia.

    Cukurungan :

    Our beliefs is our ultimate game for our live and it is not part for the turis attractions we never pride to become a living museum and if you pride worship to cow and kissing the drop cow and wash your face with its urine please go head we don’t care.

    Regard,
    AMUNGME SON

  22. avatar Shiva says:

    Tomaculum Says:

    Currently the Indonesian tend to use names like: Abu bakar (although maybe he doesn’t have any son named Bakar) or Muhammad al Bukhari al etcetera etcetera. It sounds for my half javanese ear stil jet strange. But maybe it will be integrated in 20 -30 years?

    No matter how much you try you cannot change the stripes on a tiger.

    You are either Muslim or javanese, Islam does not allow a half way house.

    Islam doesnt seek to integrate, it strives (struggle?jihad) to dominate,as can be seen here in Indonesia and else where.

    Indonesia just now is in the state of Islam Mekkan, but is slowly becoming Islam Medinian, and when this happens, nothing will be allowed if if does not conform with Sharia, not even Javanese.

    Cukurungan Says:

    Indian never fought and won against the islam moghul more than 400 years the indian were only servants of the moghul.

    All Standard reference books agree that the name ‘Hindu Kush’ of the mountain range in Eastern Afghanistan means ‘Hindu Slaughter’ or ‘Hindu Killer’.

    History also reveals that until 1000 A.D. the area of Hindu Kush was a full part of Hindu cradle. More likely, the mountain range was deliberately named as ‘Hindu Slaughter’ by the Moslem conquerors, as a lesson to the future generations of Indians.

    IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT ONE OF THE FEW PLACE NAMES ON EARTH THAT REMINDS US NOT OF THE VICTORY OF THE WINNERS BUT RATHER THE SLAUGHTER OF THE LOSERS, CONCERNS A GENOCIDE OF HINDUS BY THE MOSLEMS.

    Unlike the Jewish holocaust, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions.

    Few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopedia Britannica informs that in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi, and after the battle those inhabitants (of Delhi) not killed were removed as slaves Not servants as you falsely claim, while other reference says that the number of captives butchered by Timur Lane’s army was about 100,000.

    Later on Encyclopedia Britannica mentions that the Mughal emperor Akbar ‘ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod’ .

    Another reference indicates that this massacre of 30,000 Hindu peasants at Chitod is recorded by Abul Fazl, Akbar’s court historian himself.

    These two ‘one day’ massacres are sufficient to provide a reference point for estimating the scale of Hindu genocide. The Afgan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afganistan, 1,500,000 residents perished.

    It is evident that Hindus from ancient India’s (Hindustan’s) border states such as Gandhaar and Vaahic Pradesh were massacred or taken as slaves by the Moslem invaders who named the region as Hindu Kush (or Hindu Slaughter,or Hindu Killer) to teach a lesson to the future Hindu generations of India.

    Unfortunately Hindus are not aware of this tragic history. The Indian government does not want the true history of Hindu Moslem conflicts during the medieval ages to be taught in schools. This policy of negationism is the cause behind the ignorance of Hindus about the Hindu Kush and the Hindu genocide.

    In 1982, the National Council of Educational Research and Training issued a directive for the rewriting of school texts. Among other things it stipulated that: ‘Characterization of the medieval period as a time of conflict between Hindus and Moslems is forbidden’. Thus denial of history or Negationism has become India’s official ‘educational’ policy

    Great Gandhi lead Indian took back India

    Gandhi is regarded as the traitor of True Indian Independence by Indians throughout India.

    This is supported by all Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis whom have studied the truth of Indian history as written from the Indian viewpoint as opposed to that presented by the west (British) and that written by high government officials whom have somewhat falsified a version of Indian history to suit their own requirements.

    1) “I would give up the finest sons of India to save the British empire in it’s dying hour”

    2) “We [Indians] can only be granted the responsibility of freedom once we learn to civilize ourselves first. [like the British]”

    Above quotes from the Autobiography : “The Story of My Experiments With Truth” : Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi;

    Gandhi was a traitorous puppet. A clown by all standards.

    A man who forsakes his heritage is only half a man.

    Indian are not good fighters but they are only a good dancers and singers.

    A much better quality than what Islam prescribes.

    One hadith from the Bukhari Shareef, the most authentic Book of Hadith, further confirms unlawfulness of music and singing:

    `There will be people of my Ummah who will seek to make lawful; fornication, wine-drinking and the use of ma`aazif (musical instruments).
    `
    Detailed analysis of the Arabic word `ma`aazif ` shows that it refers to musical instruments, the sounds of those musical instruments and singing with the accompaniment of instruments.

    Closer analysis of the wordings of the Hadith establishes the prohibition of music. Firstly, the words `seek to make lawful ` shows that music is not permissible, as logically one can only seek to make lawful that which is not allowed.

    Secondly, if music was not prohibited, then it would not have been brought within the same context as fornication and wine-drinking.

    Now the question is,how much of Java,s history been changed or lost or white washed, so as not to be critical of islam ?

    So how can you be Javanese when you belong to a cult that has killed so many Javanese.

    Have you forgotten 1965 when Majelis Ulama Indonesia along with Suharto ran amok and murdered Hundreds of thousand of Javanese

    Now I will finish with a little story

    A few years before the world went mad, Ketut had a Javanese girlfriend, a Muslim. As their relationship ripened, she became sad. “It’s a shame I can’t marry you,” she would sigh.

    There was no need to ask what the obstacle was. Although a liberal Muslim, she had made it clear that he was an infidel, a Balinese Hindu, and unless he changed they had no future.

    “Would a Muslim man ever change to the religion of his wife?” Ketut asked.

    “Of course not,” she answered. “Islam is the true religion. And I will not become Hindu.”

    Ketut thought about the problem for a few days. He could give up a thousand years of Hindu ancestry, he thought, but not for Islam. The “vile, long-haired princes of Bali” as the Islamic Javanese had called his people nearly 600 years ago, had fought against the spread of Islam to the shores of paradise since that time. Islam was brought to Indonesia by Arab traders, gained a foothold in Sumatra in the 13th century, spread to the coastal areas of Java, then eroded the great Hindu kingdom of Majapahit in the early 16th century. But the aristocracy of the Majapahit, the priests, jurists, artists, artisans, writers, and dancers were for the most part unwilling to accept Islamization. They fled to Bali and the protection of King Waturrenggong.

    King Waturrengong had “lionhearted courage, incompArable daring, and magical powers” in battle. An incarnation of Wisnu, he unified the aristocracy with the people and built a military bulwark against Islam. His high priest and teacher, the Just-Arrived-Magic-Powerful-High-Priest Nirartha, another refugee from Java, redesigned the temple system in Bali so that each village had its own temples; this forged a closer bond between the people and their Hindu gods, a bond unlike that in any other Hindu kingdom, and one which Islam would find difficult to sever, despite 600 years of pressure. It was this exodus of devoted Hindus and the fear of Islam that created in Bali the paradise that Western tourists have been admiring since 1597, when Captain de Houtman, the first Dutch explorer to the area, arrived and many of his men mutinied; refusing to leave the island that was so beautiful

    The full article

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/704106/posts

  23. avatar Fanglong says:

    Very interesting discussion.

  24. avatar Busway says:

    I think the real terrorists are all the corruptors in Indonesia, because they make us jobless, homeless, frustrating. If everybody works properly I am sure thay are no terrorists at all, because they are always busy to working for his family and improve their career.

  25. avatar Shiva says:

    Busway Says:

    I think the real terrorists are all the corruptors in Indonesia, because they make us jobless, homeless, frustrating. If everybody works properly I am sure thay are no terrorists at all, because they are always busy to working for his family and improve their career.

    If you would just take a look at the religion that the worst corruptors in Indonesia subscribed to, you will see they are all Muslims.

    Well explain to me that some of the worst terrorist happens to be doctors. So poverty has nothing to do with Islamic Terrorism.

    Such as the failed bombers in London/Glasgow.

    *

    The Indonesian Dr Azahari Husin.

    *

    Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri-Al-Qaeda mastermind and number two man, reportedly a surgeon and/or psychiatrist;

    *
    Dr. Mohammad Rabi Al-Zawahiri-Ayman’s father and a Muslim Brotherhood enthusiast, pharmacologist and professor at Ain Shams Medical School;

    *
    Dr. “Abu Hafiza”-Al-Qaeda master planner who was the brains and commander of the Moroccan cell that provided logistics for the 9/11 attacks, and he recruited Qaeda insurgents for battles in Fallujah, Moroccan psychiatrist;

    *
    Dr. Abdel Aziz Al-Rantisi-Late HAMAS leader, pediatrician;

    *
    Dr. Mahmoud Al-Zahar- HAMAS co-founder and leader, surgeon and lecturer at the Islamic University in Gaza;

    *
    Dr. Fathi Abd Al-Aziz Shiqaqi-Late founder of Islamic Jihad and active in Fatah, physician;

    *
    Dr. George Habash-Founder and chief of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), pediatrician (which is interesting since he rocketed a school bus full of children in Avivim, Israel;

    *
    Dr. Bashar Assad-President of Terror-sponsor state Syria, welcoming home to every Islamic terrorist group imaginable, ophthalmologist.

    I think the worst corruptors are the preachers of Islam.

    [copy/paste from other sites deleted by admin]

  26. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Shiva,

    Blahdy, blahdy, blah, rabbiting on and on and on, like a backbencher with a PHD in Classics in the Indian parliament. Let me get my pillow, I’m falling asleep.

    Brevity is a vital ingredient in Blogging, dear boy. If you get your point across in a few sentences, more people are likely to read it.

    The problem is that you don’t really have a point. You’re just venting free-association images from your sordid and adolescent mind, treating Indonesia Matters like a much-needed therapy session. Medication’s faster, Shiva.

    Worst corruptors in Indonesia all Muslims? What, you mean like the Indonesian Chinese-conglomerate owners in the late 1990s who are mostly Christian, Buddhist or Confucian? Granted, some of them have taken Muslim names, but who are they kidding? I’m not blaming the “Cukong” for all of the woes, but in gross terms, pal, they’ve got the records.

    There are a variety of ways of testing or measuring corruption. We could go into that, but you’ve already bored all the readers to death by sucking up bandwidth with meaningless quotes.

  27. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Achmad,
    let’s say: the corruption in Indonesia is a collaboration between the religions and the ethnic groups. 🙂

  28. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Dear Tom,

    I would humbly beg to differ. Corruption’s just unfettered human nature. It’s what human beings in politics, business and leadership positions tend to do when there’s nothing stopping them putting their snouts in the trough.

    Distrust of greed is at the heart of Western liberal institutions, for example. Don’t think it’s really the religions here and the ethnic groups, although they’re both an expression of human nature, of course.

    But we’re getting a bit sidetracked. I was really enjoying winding Shiva up with kindergarten-level tactics. In fact, it’s amazing how many people fall for it.

  29. avatar Arema says:

    In fact, it’s amazing how many people fall for it.

    We all fell for it initially, but not all of us responded =p

    I have to admit you’re too good at it, LOL. But I’m glad that the real Achmad Sudarsono is the exact opposite of what he usually wrote =)

  30. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Shiva,

    What is your criteria called them terorist? Were those gentlemen killing innocent people more than what have been done by American, british, serbia leader, LTTE Leader, BJP leaders, Israel Leaders, Mao Zedong and Khmer Rough leaders? I don’t think so.

    If in ISLAM, there’s launching for the saints I would call Mr AYZMAN, habash, rantizi or migh be osama as the true SAINTS.

    Because those gentlemen you called as the terrorist their hand are muh cleaner than the gentlemen and leaders I mentioned latter on.

    If you flash back to human history just 65 years ago when the Christianity at age of 1900 years old they were killing each others with total death tolls only God know while today the islamic age is still less than 1500 years old and our reputation in regard to the humanity tragedy is much better than anybody else.

    Regard,
    Amungme Son

Comment on “Javanese Terrorists”.

RSS
RSS feed
Email

Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-18
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact