Bursah Zarnubi

May 16th, 2007, in News, by

The Reform Star Party is undergoing religious training, while its women members wear sexy clothing, says Bursah Zarnubi.

The leader of the Reform Star Party, Partai Bintang Reformasi (PBR), Bursah Zarnubi, says his party, which won 2.4% in the 2004 elections, is currently deepening its knowledge of Islam:

At the moment we are studying Islamic religious teachings.

Bursah Zarnubi
Bursah Zarnubi.

Bursah confided that in recent times the members of the PBR had not been carrying out prayers together, and that this had had a harmful effect on the party, particularly on its women members.

A lot of the female members wear tank tops all the time.

Cewek
Girl in a tank top, possibly a PBR cadre.

The new emphasis on learning Islam would hopefully solve this problem. Speaking in Bandung on 11th May Bursah said however that the PBR would not force women members to wear the jilbab. Decent clothing was adequate, and although this did not include tank tops:

But if they still want to wear tank tops don’t blame us if wer’e tempted.

He also said that PBR members of parliament, of whom there are 14, had to travel to more remote areas of the country in order to:

..plant religious teachings [among the people] because Islam is more than just about rituals, there are a lot of things we have to do in our daily lives.

Normally PBR politicians were afraid to go to small villages, he said, because people always asked them for money. okezone


20 Comments on “Bursah Zarnubi”

  1. avatar Dimp says:

    But if they still want to wear tank tops don’t blame us if wer’e tempted.

    And he is a political party leader, God help us.

    He is an idiot, he is practically saying that men are just like animals that cannot restraint their ‘desire’.

    If you still keep saying something stupid, then don’t blame me if I’m tempted to kick you.

  2. avatar El Gran Combo Puertorico says:

    Where did this word “tank top” come from? It sounds heavy man, 5000 kilograms human plastering machine on your shoulder? Only Rambo can wear such thing, and maybe also Ramba (Rambo’s girlfriend).

  3. avatar ausdag says:

    Decent clothing was adequate, and although this did not include tank tops:

    But if they still want to wear tank tops don’t blame us if wer’e tempted.

    What’s wrong with being tempted? Even Jesus was tempted.

    It’s what you do with the temptation.

    So like it or not, you get tempted by Tank Tops – not your problem;

    You fall into whatever that Tank-Top-Instigated-Temptation-Tempts you to do, entirely your fault!

    Start taking responsibility for your own actions instead of trying to ban everything that causes your weak will to stumble.

  4. avatar El Gran Combo Puertorico says:

    Ausdag,

    We all agree with what you said. We all knew that. It’s just that they never get it. There’s little point of repeating it, I’m afraid. It’s as futile as teaching pig how to sing. I can’t help but seeing them as a bunch of little 10-years old kids, always. When will they ever learn, at least, how to masturbate?

  5. avatar Dimp says:

    And this man is supposed to be a leader? That is one of the reason that Indonesia is doomed.

    If he keep on saying something stupid, then don’t blame me if I’m tempted to kick his head.

  6. avatar Johno says:

    “But if they still want to wear tank tops don’t blame us if wer’e tempted.”

    and because we are the most base kind of animals like rutting rats we will act on that tempation???

    Wow these guys even insult themselves its just too easy..

  7. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    The blind leading the blind!

    Peace

  8. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    The wicked eyes leading the blind!

    You people are condemning an honest and innocent man. He is being a true moslem. Look at what the Arabian story book says,

    Q33:59 O Prophet! tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    Q33:59 Hai Nabi katakanlah kepada istri-istrimu, anak-anak perempuanmu dan istri-istri orang mukmin: “Hendaklah mereka mengulurkan jilbabnya ke seluruh tubuh mereka”. Yang demikian itu supaya mereka lebih mudah untuk dikenal, karena itu mereka tidak diganggu. Dan Allah adalah Maha pengampun lagi Maha penyayang.

  9. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    *Girl in a tank top, possibly a PBR cadre* from picture above.

    I wonder if PBR need a male cadre. I can volunteer for free. 😛

  10. avatar Bas says:

    The truth is nothing excite more Indonesian men than a girl wearing a jilbab. Ask the owners of local adult Website what their members request most. I did and the answer is: girls in jilbabs! Now try to chat with Indonesian prostitutes and ask them what their clients ask them to wear the most: once again the answer is: Jilbab.

    I have personally no doubt why all these politicians see no objection to women wearing that Arab attribute, this just give girls that “innocent” look that make them so sexualy desirable.

    And I must admit myself all these sexy girls wearing jilbab in traditional clothes are just more sexy than the average tank-top girls, when you cannot see the hair you can focus on the sensuality of their lips and eyes and other parts of the anatomy.

  11. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Aluang Anak Bayang,

    Firstly this verse refers to The Prophets immediate family and the believers around him at that time, it is not a general instruction for all of woman kind for all time.

    Secondly, even if it was meant for all women for all time, verse 33:59 uses the word Jalabibihinna, which means “their garments” and then you have the term “yudina” which means to draw closer or lower. Given that what has to be covered is the “aurat”, not the “corrupted aurat” of Hadith but the original meaning in classical Arabic of outer genitals, the meaning is quite clear. If we extend the covered area to include the breasts as mentioned in verse 24:31 we would find that even if the woman was wearing a bikini she would still be abiding by the instructions in Al Quran!

    Exposure of a womans body unless it is done in a lewd manner is a matter of insignificance, can you show me any punishment dictated in Al Quran for such a thing? Modesty is encouraged in Al Quran, but I don’t think this is a matter which will result in somebody being condemned to hell for all eternity if they don’t live up to the highest standards.

    The tank top is an outer garment, and it is already around the body, why do you encourage such misinterpretation of a simple instruction from God? Are you just mocking the religion? Because if you wish to change it you will never do it in that fashion, it can only be changed from within, by education and reasoned argument.

    As to the Bahasa Indonesia translation, that is just a mockery of the original, and is not even worthy of discussion, just like most of our translations.

    Peace

  12. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Hi Mas Khafi, when the translation is not to your liking, it doesn’t mean I am mocking Islam. If you know Arabic, then give your best translation in English and Indonesian.

    Firstly this verse refers to The Prophets immediate family and the believers around him at that time, it is not a general instruction for all of woman kind for all time.

    Pardon me, I always thought the qu’ran is an instruction book for all mankind till eternity. If it is not, it is something new to me.

    Secondly, even if it was meant for all women for all time, verse 33:59 uses the word Jalabibihinna, which means “their garments” and then you have the term “yudina” which means to draw closer or lower. Given that what has to be covered is the “aurat”, not the “corrupted aurat” of Hadith but the original meaning in classical Arabic of outer genitals, the meaning is quite clear. If we extend the covered area to include the breasts as mentioned in verse 24:31 we would find that even if the woman was wearing a bikini she would still be abiding by the instructions in Al Quran!

    Jalabibihinna … aurat … yudina … these are clearly Arabic. So you can only understand the qu’ran in no other language beside Arabic. Something tells me Islam is for Arabs.

    Exposure of a womans body unless it is done in a lewd manner is a matter of insignificance, can you show me any punishment dictated in Al Quran for such a thing? Modesty is encouraged in Al Quran, but I don’t think this is a matter which will result in somebody being condemned to hell for all eternity if they don’t live up to the highest standards.

    Mas Khafi, if a woman is condemned in hell for not covering her body enough, isn’t it a blessing. At least she don’t get caned outside a mosque after Friday sermon, with the crowd chanting ‘Allahu Akhbar’.

    The tank top is an outer garment, and it is already around the body, why do you encourage such misinterpretation of a simple instruction from God? …..

    Simple instruction? I don’t think so. The whole Islamic world are tearing each other apart and murdering non-moslem because of misinterpretation of simple instruction.

    As to the Bahasa Indonesia translation, that is just a mockery of the original, and is not even worthy of discussion, just like most of our translations.

    That was an exact translation. From Arabic to English to Indonesian. I was merely trying to tell our posters that they got it all wrong condemning an honest and innocent man who is merely following simple instruction from the qu’ran.

  13. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Aluang Anak Bayang,

    If you want different translations of Al Quran, just search the internet, there are many for you to read. If you are searching for things to highlight the good side of Islam you will find it, if you are looking for things to denigrate Islam and highlight its deficiencies as practiced by the mainstream that can also be found. Let us see what you come up with, it will surely be a reflection of what is in your heart and soul.

    Al Quran is not an instruction book it is a guidance and light, it is also a confirmation of the previous guidance from God, it is your own choice if you follow that guidance or not, as it is for all others who have received Word from God.

    Classical Arabic as contained in Al Quran is a very rich and deepy complex language, the translation of which requires great knowledge, I cannot profess to be an expert in any language unfortunately, however I believe that I have enough humanity and moral understanding to be able to decide if a translation meets my personal requirements with regards to my understanding of Islam. The great problem with many translations is that the translation is coloured by the experience and beliefs of the translator, a believer in Sunnah and Hadith will base his translations on those sources rather than simply translating the words as they stand.

    Islam is not just for the Arabs, however Al Quran is for the Arabs, God had already given guidance and light in Torah and Injeel, which most other people around the world have been happy to accept in translation, you are forgetting that in their original state they are also Islam.

    Please do not confuse Islam the religion practiced by Mainstream Muslims, with Islam or Submission to God which is given to us in Torah, Injeel, and Al Quran.

    Al Quran was given to the Arabs, because they would not accept the word of God in any other language:

    “Now if We had made it a Qur’an in a non-Arabic tongue they would surely have said, “Why is it that its verses have not been made clear? Why – a foreign tongue and an Arab?” Say, “For those who accept it, this is a Guidance and medicine for a wholesome life. But as for those who will not believe, in their ears is deafness, and so it remains obscure to them. They are like people who are called to from afar.” 41:44

    It is only the Arabs, in their conceit, who have decided that Arabic is the language of God!

    Just incase you didn’t understand me the first time, I don’t really believe that God as I understand Him, would punish a woman in either of the ways you have written, for not covering her body. As I understand it Al Quran says that only those who don’t believe in God will go to Hell, and if they don’t believe in God that is their choice, at least they will not be worried about it whilst they are alive will they?

    The caning outside the mosque is not Gods will it is the will of the misguided!

    “The whole Islamic world are tearing each other apart and murdering non-moslem”?

    I have travelled extensively in my career, through Europe, North America, Africa, the Middle East and Asia, and to be honest with you, the vast majority of Moslems in those places are not tearing each other apart, and not killing non-moslems, please try to stop watching so many CNN or ABC News Broadcasts. I am not saying that there are no problems, there are certainly many problems, but they are due again, not to Al Quran or the Word of God, but to misinterpretation of The Book and the greed for wealth and power. Anybody who has read and understood Al Quran or the Injeel or Torah, would turn away from such things instantly as soon as they understood. Unfortunately there is a great deal of ignorance and a lack of education in many of these strife prone areas, itself perpetrated by the rulers in an attempt to control the masses.

    If that was a direct translation why did “Jalabibihinna”, meaning “their garments” change to “their outer garments” and then to “jilbabnya” meaning “their veil” ?
    Maybe it wasn’t the other posters who got it all wrong?

    Peace

  14. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Mas Khafi,

    If you want different translations of Al Quran, just search the internet, there are many for you to read. …… Let us see what you come up with, it will surely be a reflection of what is in your heart and soul.

    Search I did, and that is what I came up with. Yet it wasn’t to your taste. Next time I will try Taliban’s site.

    Al Quran is not an instruction book it is a guidance and light, it is also a confirmation of the previous guidance from God, it is your own choice if you follow that guidance or not, as it is for all others who have received Word from God.

    Guidance and light? I can’t see any Islamic countries guided. All I can see is darkness where ever and whatever Islam touches.

    Classical Arabic as contained in Al Quran is a very rich and deepy complex language, the translation of which requires great knowledge, …..

    So it is not an easy book to understand. God sent us his written guidance in a deeply complex language. That is a very big mistake, that is why there are so many different translations.

    Al Quran was given to the Arabs, because they would not accept the word of God in any other language

    And you mean God gave in to their demand. How pathetic. Mas Khafi, you are an intelligent man, do you believe this is a valid excuse? You backed your argument with verse from God’s guidance book, have you ever questioned whether it is from God?

    What don’t God get qu’ran written in Chinese or Japanese? The Chinese and Japanese are hard to convert. They will not accept any nonsense till kingdom come. The Dayaks have natural immunity to every religion. What about qu’ran in Dayaks language?

    I have travelled extensively in my career, through Europe, North America, Africa, the Middle East and Asia, …..

    Asia, I bet you haven’t been to China. Otherwise you would have thrown away that Arabian story book by now. Have you seen text of Chinese herbal medicine and acupunture? They are in their complete illustrated form, written 3600 years before God’s guidance book. Mas Khafi, this is the trueguidance and the light, not some book that tells you to cover your aurat. It serve no purpose at all. I am sure ancient women do cover their aurat with or without the qu’ran telling them to.

    ….. please try to stop watching so many CNN or ABC News Broadcasts.

    I don’t watch CNN or ABC. I check debates forum whenever I am free, and was put off by the way moslems try to justify killings, immoral sexs by making it looks like it is divinely sanctioned.

    If that was a direct translation why did “Jalabibihinna”, meaning “their garments” change to “their outer garments” and then to “jilbabnya” meaning “their veil” ?
    Maybe it wasn’t the other posters who got it all wrong?

    I got the translation from this official Saudi Arabia’s Ministry of Islamic Affair site. You are indirectly telling me you can read Arabic better than the Arabs.
    quran.al-islam.com

    Regards.

  15. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    AAB,

    I don’t really think that whatever translation you find will make it clear, you are still very far from understanding the message contained in Al Quran as are the followers of Mainstream Islam.

    Perhaps the darkness which you speak of is a reflection of what is in your heart and soul, I have never once seen you making constructive comment, you only seem set to destroy and ridicule, you cannot change Islam in that way, you have to fight it from within and show a better alternative, you cannot dismiss it as you do, as it will not just go away.

    I did not say that the book was difficult to understand, please read again, I said that Classical Arabic is a rich and deeply complex language, which is difficult to translate. The message of Al Quran is simple and clear if you have a pure heart and approach it with good intentions, unfortunately most people here in Indonesia, make the noises but understand nothing and rely on others to explain it to them.

    God never gave in to anybodys demands, he was trying to lead the heathen Arabs out of the dark ages with a book that they could read in their own language.

    To question why God didn’t get Al Quran written in Chinese, or Japanese is missing the point completely, God tells us in Al Quran that he sent messengers to all peoples in their own tongues, Islam is supposed to be the universality of a moral code, not Islam as you see it practiced but, Islam as portrayed in all of the Holy books and teachings. Who is to say in what form God gave the other books or teachings?

    You are quite correct, I have yet to travel to China, but I am well aware of the knowledge and learning of the ancient Chinese, just as I am well aware of the barbaric and violent methods of the ancient Chinese Warlords and Emperor’s, Submission to God’s will is not about medicine and healing, it is about a moral system.

    Debate forums are not a place to learn about the peoples of the world and their behaviours, the majority of people have no wish to debate, in fact a large proportion of the people of the world have no facility to do so on the internet.

    Your last point about reading Arabic better than the Arabs. No I am not suggesting that directly or indirectly, but it would seem that I can read English and Indonesian better than them.

    Peace

  16. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Mas Khafi,

    I don’t really think that whatever translation you find will make it clear, you are still very far from understanding the message contained in Al Quran as are the followers of Mainstream Islam.

    If ‘clear’ from your view point is to find a way around evil verses. I am afraid my conscience won’t let me do it.

    Perhaps the darkness which you speak of is a reflection of what is in your heart and soul, I have never once seen you making constructive comment, you only seem set to destroy and ridicule, you cannot change Islam in that way, you have to fight it from within and show a better alternative, you cannot dismiss it as you do, as it will not just go away.

    You see virtue and moral excellence with verse like ‘cover your aurat’, yes it is a good verse but what the heck, women had been covering their aurat ever since civilisation. ‘There is no compulsion in Islam’ – hey, there is no compulsion in other religion too, long before Islam. What’s the big deal. These are what you called guidance from God?

    If darkness means bad intention, you have misunderstood me. I see darkness in religions that seek to destroy our culture, corrupt our mind, subjugate others and are petty minded. If I have not make any good comment, it means there is nothing good to comment about.

    God never gave in to anybodys demands, he was trying to lead the heathen Arabs out of the dark ages with a book that they could read in their own language.

    In that case, He should have shone lights on the aboriginoes of Australia, the Pacific Islanders or the Africans. You are suggesting God is playing favoritism.

    To question why God didn’t get Al Quran written in Chinese, or Japanese is missing the point completely, God tells us in Al Quran that he sent messengers to all peoples in their own tongues, Islam is supposed to be the universality of a moral code, not Islam as you see it practiced but, Islam as portrayed in all of the Holy books and teachings. Who is to say in what form God gave the other books or teachings?

    My response is valid and in good sense. When you said God gave his guidance in Arabic just because Arabs wouldn’t want to read it in any other language, isn’t that idiocy. Chinese and Japanese don’t want to read Arabic too. I can’t see why I am missing point here. The only point I can see missing is from you. You have no answer to it.

    Imagine an elderly cleric who had spent his entire life studying the qu’ran. Then a 10 years old come in and asked question which he can’t answer. The cleric would say the boy is missing the point. We are in this scenario now.

    You are quite correct, I have yet to travel to China, but I am well aware of the knowledge and learning of the ancient Chinese, just as I am well aware of the barbaric and violent methods of the ancient Chinese Warlords and Emperor’s, Submission to God’s will is not about medicine and healing, it is about a moral system.

    You say you are aware of Chinese knowledge and learning. I can bet again that you have not even touched any book on Chinese school of thought, nor read any Western philosophies. You can’t just read one book and conclude it is the best book of guidance every written.

    Abuses of human rights are still rife in China to this days, and the whole world knew it. I do not see why you would want to connect knowledge and learning of ancient Chinese with barbaric and violent torture of warlords. It seems that you are on the defensive ready to take aim. It shows your impatience when questioned about your faith. Hope I am wrong.

    Debate forums are not a place to learn about the peoples of the world and their behaviours, the majority of people have no wish to debate, in fact a large proportion of the people of the world have no facility to do so on the internet.

    I beg to differ. When you dissected a real moslem, you find the same filth in each and every one of them. They can be very benignant and polite on the outside, but on the inside, you find they condone sex with children, sex with adopted children, sex with daughter-in-law with very clear conscience. If you don’t believe me, ask Cuk or Hassan.

    Regards.

  17. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    AAB,

    I am not trying to find a way around evil verses, I am trying to find the correct interpretation for them, If the verses appear evil then they must be incorrectly interpreted by both you and the mainstream believers, or, and this is the big crunch, God has gotten it wrong.

    I can fully integrate the teachings of the Abrahamic holy scriptures and view them as a whole, and they, to me, indicate that God wants us all to live in peace and harmony, that is what I strive for, that is to me the essense of Islam. Islam is simply submission to God, it is not about how we dress or how we pray, or about our particular race or identity. It is something which comes from the heart, it is about tolerance and understanding, caring and loving, nurturing and about morality.

    I am not your average Muslim, I follow what is given in Al Quran, I love music, and the arts including the portrayal of human figures, I occassionally drink beer, I dress as I wish to dress. I feel no need to deprive myself of lifes pleasures, the good things which God has given us to live up to some corrupted understanding of Gods teachings in Al Quran.

    I must admit to being disturbed by your statement:

    When you dissected a real moslem, you find the same filth in each and every one of them. They can be very benignant and polite on the outside, but on the inside, you find they condone sex with children, sex with adopted children, sex with daughter-in-law with very clear conscience. If you don’t believe me, ask Cuk or Hassan.

    You obviously have no understanding of what a real Muslim is, if you had you would not make such a statement. A real Muslim, is not a sunnah and hadith follower, an Arab wannabe. A real Muslim is a followers of Gods’s words only, please do not confuse the two, they are completely different. A real Muslim can be a Jew, a Christian or any other religion so long as they believe in God, do good deeds and believe in the day of judgement.

    I would like to know where you get your information about the sexual preferences of Muslims, I would suggest that in this you are also mislead as are the followers of sunnah and hadith. Just give me the verses from Al Quran which you are quoting and I will attempt to explain them to you.

    As to my knowledge of philosophy, I have read some of the work of Kongzi, and Laozi, Plato and Socrates, Omar Khayyám and Avicenna. I have also read Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War”, Torah, The Gospels, etc.

    But this debate is not about philosophy, or knowledge, or even learning is it ? This debate is about your apparent hatred of something which you so obviously do not understand. What you hate; the violence, the intolerance, the extremism etc is not Islam, this is not what Al Quran teaches. As I have said before your understanding of what Islam is all about is as limited as the mainstream believers. God has closed your heart, as he has thiers.

    My faith teaches me tolerance for others. I am not sure that you actually have any faith, as in a previous post you professed to “hating all religion”, I don’t know from this statement if you are an aithiest or an agnostic, but you are a very good example of why faith and a belief in God is necessary for some people, it gives them guidelines to live their lives by and one of the things it does is tells them not to hate.

    Peace

  18. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Mas Khafi,

    I am not trying to find a way around evil verses, ….., or, and this is the big crunch, God has gotten it wrong.

    To even suggest Allah is wrong, the mere thought of it would get you burning in hell. You are a pseudo-moslem.

    I am not your average Muslim, I follow what is given in Al Quran, I love music, and the arts including the portrayal of human figures, I occassionally drink beer, I dress as I wish to dress. I feel no need to deprive myself of lifes pleasures, the good things which God has given us to live up to some corrupted understanding of Gods teachings in Al Quran.

    Indonesian moslems are not real moslems. Majority who have not read the qu’ran and hadith, blended it with local belief (the Kejawen), the few who have read it (like yourself) quickly discarded the hadith because of the filth it contained. You have a clear conscience and I have nothing against you. I am against those read and understand, and accomodate it.

    Islam without the complementary hadith is non-conforming, which put you in the rank of the heretics and non-believers. But why call yourself moslem? You are safer with non-believers than real moslem. Whether you are a bahai, shia, or pseudo-moslem, real moslem counts you in under the same Islam umbrella for morale boosting, and to prop up their numbers, but that doesn’t mean that you will be accepted.

    But this debate is not about philosophy, or knowledge, or even learning is it ? This debate is about your apparent hatred of something which you so obviously do not understand. What you hate; the violence, the intolerance, the extremism etc is not Islam, this is not what Al Quran teaches. As I have said before your understanding of what Islam is all about is as limited as the mainstream believers. God has closed your heart, as he has thiers.

    I do not know I am even in a debate. I only know I am responding to a comment and correcting some misunderstandings.

    I do not know why you said there is no violence and intolerance in islam. There are not just hundreds of violent and intolerant verses, but immoralities and absurdities abound. Yes God has closed my heart. This poor soul are destined to hell fire.

    My faith teaches me tolerance for others. I am not sure that you actually have any faith, as in a previous post you professed to “hating all religion”, I don’t know from this statement if you are an aithiest or an agnostic, but you are a very good example of why faith and a belief in God is necessary for some people, it gives them guidelines to live their lives by and one of the things it does is tells them not to hate.

    “hating all religion”? NO, not all but the one that seeks to destroy my people, my future generations, my culture and my heritage. I simply can’t accept a religion that sees incest as virtue, period. Work around it or try to justify it or throw away the hadith, incest is still incest.

    Yes, I think I am an atheist like the Chinese because I do care for my country, my family and my future generations.

    Regards.

  19. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    AAB,

    I did not suggest that God is wrong, my beliefs are a testament to the fact that I believe.

    I am against those who read it understand it and them still live and teach corruption of it.

    I certainly am non conforming, but that doesn’t make my conviction or resolve any weaker to try and educate others. I call myself Muslim, because that is what I am, I am a person who is trying my best to submit myself to the will of God.

    I beleived we were in a debate, I have found your views very interesting, it is such a shame that you see Islam as the mainstream see it, I would have expected somebody of your obvious intelligence and knowledge to have been able to see past the nonsense and into the truth, but each to his own, you have your path and I have mine. As to correcting misunderstandings, you have done nothing of the sort, you have made accusations about Islam without really understanding what Islam is, I have said it before and will say it again, your understanding of Islam is as misguided as the mainstream beleivers.

    I have debated with many who truely know Al Quran about the verses I presume you are refering to, you are accepting them without knowing the history or circumstance surrounding them. As to the immorality and absurdities, just give me the examples, I have asked you before and you still have not given me any examples?

    I am sorry, but you clearly stated in a prievious thread, that you hated all religions, I haven’t the time to search for it now but it is there.

    I will ask you again, where is the incest in Al Quran? just give me the verse if you can?

    Chinese atheist? The Chinese I know are some of the most devoted people I know, Catholic, protestant, and Muslim. Atheist, I think not!

    Belief in God does not mean that you do not care for family, country and the future, where did you come up with such an idea?

    Peace

  20. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Mas Khafi,

    We are looking at islam at different angle. I see it full frontal, where you are viewing it from a certain vantage position, presumably. I do not see a need for any correction to my understanding of Islam as I go by my intuition. Hadith is part and parcel of Islam, and your non-conforming style do not make you a moslem (by my own definition).

    I can only surmise this:
    Suppose a book tells you that to appease God, you have to let your daughter be gang raped. Without knowing who the author is, A, B, and C know that this is moronic and nonsensical, and could only be written by Satan.

    However on closer inspection of the fine print, it says, “Made in Mecca, written by God”. A will do a turnaround and attest to it being divinely endorsed. He will not tolerate any suggestion of this book being evil. B was appalled but since it is authenticated by God, it could not be. He soon came up with a modified interpretation, and genuinely believe he had found the hidden meaning to it. C will just think A & B is blind and stupid.

    I am sorry, but you clearly stated in a prievious thread, that you hated all religions, I haven’t the time to search for it now but it is there.

    Do not waste your time searching because you will not find it. I would never say I hate ALL religions. Probably you confused ‘theocracy’ with ‘ALL religions’.

    As to Chinese being religiously devoted, you do need to read up on religions in China. Chinese are feng shui devotees. They only understand prosperity, happiness, good health and long live. Look what they did to Buddha. Buddha statue in China sat on gold coins which mean prosperity, has long ear which symbolises long life, big smiling face which means happiness, big belly for plenty to eat. And Ming dynasty, they have Jesus on a cross with long ear and big belly. I do not think they are seriously religious. ‘Some’ don’t mean ‘many’.

    Belief in God does not mean that you do not care for family, country and the future, where did you come up with such an idea?

    Let me rephrase it. I meant believe in Islam. Islam creates a state within a state. This religion teaches one not to follow the law of the land.

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