Islam is for Arabs

Apr 11th, 2007, in News, by

Two Javanese men fall foul of the law for saying Islam is an unwanted Arab import.

In the town of Pasuruan, East Java two men, Rohim or Rochamim and Toyib were taken to the police station by angry local residents on 10th April because of Rochamim's dangerous ideas about religion, to which Toyib had become a follower.

Rochamim says that Islam is an Arab religion and has nothing to do with Java or Indonesia and that those Javanese people who embrace Islam have been tricked by Arabs. He also says that five times a day prayers are unnecessary, and that the Quran is full of lies.

Abdul Kodir, a neighbour of Rochamim, says:

In the beginning he made it known that he didn't like Arabs, and then that he didn't believe in Islam anymore. But he used to be a Muslim.

The Pasuruan area has quite a substantial population of people of Arab (and Persian) descent.

Abdul said people in the area had known about Rochamim's deviant thinking for several months but hadn't done anything about it because they didn't feel right about taking action, for uncertain reasons. Rochamim had won a small following of people who often visited his house and Abdul said residents bided their time until they felt ready to deal with him.

Rohim and Toyib
Rohim and Toyib, undergoing questioning.

Toyib, a follower, explained that Rochamim taught that daily prayers were useless and Rochamim advised that these be replaced by devotional visits to graves.

After Rochamim was arrested his house was searched and a number of items used in mystical ceremonies and practices were seized as evidence by police.

The Pasuruan branch of the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) is said to be speedily preparing a fatwa to condemn the ideas of Rochamim. Dhofir Azhari of the Pasuruan MUI has already paid a visit to the two men in custody and he reported that they had already apologised for their deviant Javanese ways. jawapos metrotv

Toyib has been charged under Article 156a of the criminal code dealing with blasphemy, while Rochamim has not yet been charged but is still in custody. Policeman Jebul Jatmoko says that Toyib is the one who spread the teachings to others.

Meanwhile about 30 of Rochamim's neighbours thronged the Pasuruan police station today to give evidence against the suspect. One of these people, Gus Muhammad, said he couldn't stand the presence of Rochamim's religious group in the neighbourhood and, went on "Gus Mad", as he is usually called, he hoped the police would deal with the criminals firmly. jawapos

Rochamim has responded to the allegations against him by saying that he was merely practising a Javanese form of religion, kejawen, a kind of animism, which is not illegal, but that he had never insulted Islam or Muslims, or any other religion. He said he had eight followers who regularly came to his house to learn kejawen ways. jawapos

13th April. Dhofir Azhari of the MUI says on the 11th he, or somebody, typed a new fatwa which condemned variation from the Quran and the hadiths as heresy. But no specific mention of Rochamim's teachings was made because the MUI is still examining the issue.

Police are still unsure whether Rochamim has committed any crime. Pasuruan policeman Rudianto says both of the men are being held at the police station for their own safety. jawapos

Rochamim and Toyib are still at the Pasuruan police station. They are apparently living there, not being held against their will, because the residents of their village, Bugul Kidul, are not willing to accept them back.

Toyib is a suspect while Rochamim is a witness. Thoyib is accused of having said that daily prayers were unnecessary because no money was earned from them. l6


62 Comments on “Islam is for Arabs”

  1. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Odinius,

    You are kidding, there’s no radical groups in Christianity, how can Jesus teaching that love your enemies more than love yourself could becomes a killers. Btw, now Moslem have been enjoyed “Video Poso Before Malino Deal”, there was a clear evidence how lovely their teaching in the real mission.

    Al-qaida members was clearly against sunnah even they claimed otherwise because Quranic interpretation with sunnah prophet and sahabat, Jihad War is only valid when there is clear order from “Amir” or “Legal Government” without that, my understanding is not Jihad War anymore. Purpose of Jihad War is to glorify or elevate God name and the protector of the other islamic deeds. Of course bombing markets, indiscriminate killing and beheading innocents won’t in any way to achieve those purpose, therefore, it should not be called as Jihad but the actions of the spreading hatred.

    As long as the moslem can do safely the basic islamic deed like sholat, fasting and recite quran in certain areas then Jihad war is not valid anymore in that area.

    There’s clear God guidance in Quran how “Jihad War” should be implemented, it should be in the clear and strong formation of the armies force and moslem should encourage the peace deal first before any war is waged.

    thanks

  2. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Cuk,

    There’s clear God guidance in Quran how “Jihad War” should be implemented, it should be in the clear and strong formation of the armies force and moslem should encourage the peace deal first before any war is waged.

    Unfortunately, not everyone can “clearly” interpret “Jihad” as God intended in Quran, there are some extremists who still think that “Jihad” means blowing up himself in a crowded place killing innocent women and children (which sadly happened again and again in Baghdad).

    There are of course extremists in any religions, I am not saying that terrorists are exclusively Moslems.

    I just don’t understand why people are still killing each other. Aren’t we all human beings?

  3. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:

    Dimp, it is clear if you are seeing things. Moslems see miracles Allah written in clouds, tomatoes, trees, bugs, etc. There is even an islamic site for these miracles. How can you not see it clearly? Google search the website for ‘Islam miracles’, see for yourself,

    and it seemed already proven

    . The end is near.

  4. avatar Cukurungan says:

    The end is very near and the Javanese Savior the mythology man RM Cukurungan (SATRIO PANINGIT) will be coming soon from the ruin of lapindo mud for saving “miserable javanese”.

  5. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Aluang,

    Just because some people are a bit misguided doesn’t mean that everyone are too. If you google ‘Christian miracles’ you would get about the same result as well.

  6. avatar Sputjam says:

    hadith and sunnah are not God’s words,
    A person who observe the sunnah and hadith in most cases will not shave and therefore have beards. Al-Qaeda leaders have this feature. That is why they are so messed up, giving orders for their sympathisers to create mayhem. And those stupid enough to obey, will certainly be questioned in the next life on why they have taken these people (Al-qaeda) as their lord, and why they have abandoned God’s messages in the koran.

    2:21 O mankind, serve your Lord who created you and those before you so that you observe.

    2:22 He is the one who made for you the earth widely spread – and He built the sky – and it descends from the sky water – thus it produces with it from the fruits as provisions for you. Therefore do not cause for God to be associated with anything – and you know.

    Despite the message in the koran, islamic religionist insist on performing the pilgrimage in mecca – the largest pagan centre in the world. Some of the pilgrims will try to kiss the stone embedded in the kaabah. Why?

    Islamic religionist are the biggest hypocrites. When you asked them if they believe in god, they will say yes. But they reject God’s messages in the holy scriptures and created a religion out of God’s deen (way/system/order).

    Some verses in the koran concerning God :-

    2:115 And to God belongs the East and the West – therefore wherever you are – God is right in front of you. Definitely God is omnipresent – all-knowing.

    2:255 God – there is no god except He – the living – Self sustain – Never slumber – Never sleep – To Him belongs whatever in the skies and whatever in the earth. Who is the one that will intercede by Him – except with His permission? He knows whatever between their hands and whatever that was behind them. And they can never know with anything from His knowledge – except with whatever He wills. The dominance of His throne encompasses all the skies and the earth – and it never burdens Him in managing them – and He is the uppermost – The great.

    These are some of His words in the koran on faith-

    2:62 Indeed, those who believe, and those proclaimed to be guided, and the supporters and the Sobe’ans – any of them who believe with God and the hereafter and do the deeds of righteousness – thus for them the rewards by their Lord – and there shall be no fear over them – and they will not grieve.

    This simple message proclaim that you do not require worship/rituals nor a religion to believe in God. Merely do deeds of righteousness. If you still inisist in doing five daily prayers, fasting,pilgrimage etc, then show evidence that all these are required and specifically stated in the koran. Otherwise you are wasting your time and effort.

    iblis are the dejected. They have been given a time-off period to try and misleed as many humans as possible to their path (to hell).

    All things have been created to serve God, willingly or otherwise.

  7. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:

    Sputjam, let’s put aside hadith and sunnah, they are not Allah’s words. What about women is half intelligent, wife beating, and verse 002.230 in the Qu’ran? They clearly show Islam is for Arabs. Allah wrote Qu’ran for the Arabs because the daughters of Indonesia is not stupid, we don’t beat them up and wife-swapping is alien to Indonesian culture. Also when there is disagreement, we sit down and talk, we don’t tear each other apart.

  8. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Aluang said :
    Also when there is disagreement, we sit down and talk, we don’t tear each other apart.

    Cukurungan Say:
    We didn’t tear apart yet but sometimes our intense talked was caused more than millions of death as happened in 1965-1966.

    thanks,

  9. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Sputjam,

    What is the God ordered that are dejected by Iblis?

    If God can do anything and maintain the universe by His Own Power why He still need a servants like us to serve Him.

    Where is God now? I need your clear and direct answer don’t play with too many words . Is He physically in the white house or in Amazon or where else?

    thanks,

  10. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:

    Cuk,

    We didn’t tear apart yet but sometimes our intense talked was caused more than millions of death as happened in 1965-1966.

    Every nation has their own holocaust. We learn from mistake. Descendants from civilised cultures are at an advantage as they only had to look back to mementos of their past greats. Learn from the Chinese, they were discriminated everywhere, and look what have they become now. Look at the Indians, they don’t hold grudges against their colonial ruler. They learnt and prosper. We can also learn a thing or two from the Japanese. Indonesians (if you consider yourself one) like you are more concerned about distant wars than bringing back our long suffering daughters from the gulf. To hell with all these jihads and American policy, let charity begins at home. We were descendants of a once great civilisation. Our lives are not shaped and dictated by a mere book. It is the 21st century for goodness sake! and you are indulging yourself in fairy tales.

  11. avatar Yunir says:

    Is there any programmer here?

    I think programming is for White men. HTML, VB, C++ are all founded on English language.

  12. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Aluang said:

    To hell with all these jihads and American policy, let charity begins at home. We were descendants of a once great civilisation. Our lives are not shaped and dictated by a mere book.

    Cukurungan Says:

    You tell me when and where I promoted Jihad War at home or anywhere.

    Because you said Quran is in Arabic so that Islam is for Arabs. So other religion should follow the same rule Hindu & Budha are for Indians, Christians & Judaism are for the western and Jews and finally what left for javanese is for animism and cults or worship to “Kyai Slamet and Nyi Roro Kidul”.

    If you want to worship those “Kyai & Nyai” is up to you. For me, I will never worship what you worship. Your religion is for your own and my religion is for my own religion and it is not subject for other people entertainment.

    However if you want to have a good discussion about it let go head but if you want to make it subject for your jokes don’t worry friend I also have many in my pocket list the silly stuff of kebatinan and other religion.

    God knowledge in 1st century and 202nd century are no different because if He didn’t know what has been happened and what going to happened, He should not deserve called as “God”. Therefore whether you like it or not, I will always stick to my opinion that only Quran is my books of Guidance forever and anything against Quran principal, I will reject it.

    thanks,

  13. avatar Odinius says:

    The world would be a far better place if people concentrated on their own spirituality and religious growth, and not that of others.

  14. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:

    Ouch, religious stuff is getting boring.

    You tell me when and where I promoted Jihad War at home or anywhere.

    Cuk, one can spot a duck if it quacks like one, walks like one. Your apologist view gave you away.

    Because you said Quran is in Arabic so that Islam is for Arabs. So other religion should follow the same rule Hindu & Budha are for Indians, Christians & Judaism are for the western and Jews and finally what left for javanese is for animism and cults or worship to “Kyai Slamet and Nyi Roro Kidul”.

    Qu’ran is not just in Arabic, sholat can only be done in Arabic, otherwise you go to jail. Other religion don’t command you to bow toward their country, change names and destroy your own heritage. There is nothing wrong with animism. Like all other religions, they are not imposing and intrusive, they don’t employ moral police to peep into your bedroom.

    Your religion is for your own and my religion is for my own religion and ………

    Welcome back to Indonesia. You are sounding like your Javanese brother now. Say NO to shariah for us.

    God knowledge in 1st century and 202nd century are no different because if He didn’t know what has been happened and what going to happened, He should not deserve called as “God”.

    Wait there, you are implying that I share the same concept of God as you. My grandfather, like many patriotic non-religious Javanese registered their families as Muslim to keep us united from imported migrants. Remember ‘Bhinneka tunggal ika’, our national motto, it is Javanese for ‘Unity in diversity’. In fact my grandfather was a close friend of Pak Sukarno, and he was sent north to Kalimantan to persuade the Dayaks to register as Muslims. So now we have a huge population of Muslim Dayak practising animism and Muslim Javanese kejawen. Someone here suggested that the trend here is toward shariah as we are Muslim majority. We don’t share the jihadi view of the Arabs plus no one liked the idea. Certainly not the Dayaks, Balineses, Papuans, Timoreses and Javanese kejawen. Indonesians know better than to impose one religion onto other religious groups.

    Therefore whether you like it or not, I will always stick to my opinion that only Quran is my books of Guidance forever and anything against Quran principal, I will reject it.

    Stick it under your pillow or flush it down the toilet, it is none of my business. Religion should be kept in private domain.

    Cukurungan Says:

    April 15th, 2007 at 11:22 am
    Sputjam,

    What is the God ordered that are dejected by Iblis?

    If God can do anything and maintain the universe by His Own Power why He still need a servants like us to serve Him.

    I do not understand the question.

    Where is God now? I need your clear and direct answer don’t play with too many words . Is He physically in the white house or in Amazon or where else?

    thanks,

    ‘Where is God?’ is a mere rhetoric question. Every religious domain has answer to this question, so it comes down to what a person believe. For me, it is just like asking me to believe in imps and fairies.

  15. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Aluang,

    Are you women or man? Why you always “ganjen” toward my question even It was not directed to you? Am I sexy boy?

    I won’t ask you about that subject because I already knew your answer even you don’t even start to talk.

    Whereas Sputjam I am still intriguing with His opinion about concept of God and creature based on His Quran interpretation.

    I am now starting to grab your situation, you are the rich man with many people depending their fate on your words but luckily I am not so you couldn’t do anything to me. For me shariah is not enough with “yes” but it must be.

    We already given full opportunity non-sharia law implementation and kejawen leading this state for more than 50 years but we achieved nothing except became the biggest exporter of cleaner of Arab Gun.

    So for me, kejawen is enough and enough and better they are running “ketok magic or dukun pellet” so it will be many investors come to Indonesia because of dukun pelet.

    thanks,
    Satrio Paningit

  16. avatar Sputjam says:

    Wife beating verse in the koran? You are way behind time my friend.
    The last I heard, beating was mistranslated as walk away/ignore. It was all over CNN on saturday night.
    And as the use of internet spread, and many more versions of the koranic tanslations are available, the more interesting the messages becomes.
    Do not get bogged down by traditional translations, for they may be corrupted by people promoting a pagan religion.

    God does not need us. He is the Almighty. If he wills, he can create and destroy anything he wants. For Him, it is easy.
    Since certain members here enquired about iblis and adam, I may as well quote the whole chapter regarding this in case I make a mistake in conveying :-

    2:30 And when your Lord said to every universal energy forces (mala-ikati), ‘Certainly I am making in the earth – a successor. They say, ‘Are you making in it – that will corrupt therein and shedding blood – and whilst we glorify You with praises – and hold you absolute (Qudus)? He said, ‘Certainly I know what you do not know’.
    2:31 And He taught Adam the names of everything. Then, He presented him to all the universal energy forces – thus, He said, ‘describe to Me with the names of all these – if you are truthful’.
    2:32 They said, Glory be to You – we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Surely You – You are the only one who knows – the Judge.
    2:33 He said, ‘O Adam, explain to them the names’. Thus – after it was explained to them with their names, He said, ‘Did I not tell you – indeed it is Me – I who knows the unseen – of the sky – and the earth. And I know whatever you declare – and whatever you hide.
    2:34 And when We said to the universal energy forces, ‘Be subservient for Adam’, thus they all submitted – except the dejected , it refused and was arrogant – and he was from those who defied.
    2:35 And We said, ‘O Adam, you may settle with your mate in the garden and savour from it to satisfy yourself as you please – and do not approach this tree – thus you both will be from those who are unjust.
    2:36 Thus, they were slipped by the evil character from it. Consequently they were removed from whatever they were inside it. And We said, ‘Get down – each of you with each other as enemies. And for you – in the earth is a place of settlement – and comfort until a time.
    2:37 Thus Adam received ‘words’ from his Lord – subsequently He pardoned over him. Indeed it is He – He is the one who forgives – and the merciful.
    2:38 We said, ‘Get down from it all of you – thus – if it comes to you from Me – the guidance – subsequently those who follow My guide – surely there is no fear over them – nor will they grieve.

    The truth is you do not require a religion to be Muslims (submitters) and believe in God.

    The notion that javanese empires are great is exaggerated. In south east asia, only the people of Angkor wat is compArable to Chinese and indian civilisation. As for the malay archipelago, the community are largely rural based. The huge towns and cities are actually founded or built by europeans or chinese immigrants, including melaka in peninsular malaysia, although founded by javanese prince Parameswara.

  17. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:

    Sputjam wrote:

    Wife beating verse in the koran? You are way behind time my friend.
    The last I heard, beating was mistranslated as walk away/ignore. It was all over CNN on saturday night.

    Okay thanks. Finally we got the right translation. 🙂

    Did CNN mention anything about ‘wife swapping’ i.e verse Q 2:230? What is the correct translation? This particular verse has been bothering me.

  18. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Sputjam said:

    God does not need us. He is the Almighty. If he wills, he can create and destroy anything he wants. For Him, it is easy.

    Cukurungan say:

    What is the human obligations to God, it seemed that the Human tasks already done by Adam so we as Adam descendants don’t have obligations anymore and here in this world’s is our parties times. Is that correct?

    This is the third times I ask you again same question. Where is God? Do you know His address ?

    thanks,

  19. avatar Sputjam says:

    Our obligations is not to trangress God’s commandments. The commandments are stated in the scriptures. Adam transgressed and he was punished.
    God is free of all wants. he is the provider and does not require provisions from us in the form of worship or offerings(slaughter of animals).
    In all the stories concerning prophets of old, including abraham, nothing was mentioned concerning them worshipping God nor performing the Haj. They were committed to serving God by doing righteous deeds. And in the next life, for the faithful, you will be judged by your deeds alone. Not by the number of worshipping rituals you have performed.

    When reading the translation of the koran, the word solat is referred to as prayers/worship. But now some people consider this as committed and others connection. Bow /prostrate as humbly submit. And when these words are utilised, the meaning became clear. Do not depend on traditional translation alone. Keep track on latest editions going on in the internet.

    As for those who enquired about wife swapping – you are certainly trying to mock God’s messages. These verses 2-230 are about rules concerning divorce and remarrying for couples after the third divorce.

  20. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:

    Cuk wrote:

    Aluang,

    Are you women or man? Why you always “ganjen” toward my question even It was not directed to you? Am I sexy boy?

    This is a forum for everyone to see. You should have use pm option if you don’t want to be answered. ‘woman or man’ what do you mean by that? Are you gender biased?

    I won’t ask you about that subject because I already knew your answer even you don’t even start to talk.

    The world is full of surprises. If you can convince me any of your argument, I may even parrot what you say.

    Whereas Sputjam I am still intriguing with His opinion about concept of God and creature based on His Quran interpretation.

    No wonder you are in favour shariah. Like your Acheh brothers, you are more concerned about petty issue like imps and fairies, than real issue facing Indonesia. When people start thinking about Gods and rewards afterlife, they get lazy this life. Sigh.

    I am now starting to grab your situation, you are the rich man with many people depending their fate on your words but luckily I am not so you couldn’t do anything to me. For me shariah is not enough with “yes” but it must be.

    Thanks for thinking that I am rich. Unlike you, I would rather spent my time helping another less fortunate brother, than on wasting time with issues not concerning us like middle eastern wars and which God is almighty. I don’t live in dreamworld, I use my brain and work hard all my life.

    We already given full opportunity non-sharia law implementation and kejawen leading this state for more than 50 years but we achieved nothing except became the biggest exporter of cleaner of Arab Gun.

    One post away, you were saying ‘to you, your religion, to me, mine’. Why the quick change of heart?

    Also, also you are acting like a spoilt brat. Indonesia is a multicultural state. Tell me why shariah should be next? What about biblical law, Hindu law, Buddhist law, confucius law, etc? Mas, you should wait in line, stop behaving like Arabs!

    So for me, kejawen is enough and enough and better they are running “ketok magic or dukun pellet” so it will be many investors come to Indonesia because of dukun pelet.

    There are over 90 millions Javanese. Javanese will always vote Javanese. Dayaks, Balinese and other non-Muslim brothers are always on our side, so “ketok magic or dukun pellet” will be in for the long haul.

    Salam,
    Akangmas

  21. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Aluang,

    Sorry Kang Mas I revoked my word, go head whenever you want to respond it.

    Let see in the next game anyone has deserves full rights to express and to materialize whatever their dreams as long as it is within “rule of game”‘. It seemed you’re locked in “1990 memories” or before. Please check by yourself the situation in the basement or mushola office in Jakarta Central Bisnis Area” you will be astonished with very dramatic change “your kejawen brother” was almost gone while “islamist” are growing even faster.

    This development has been further strengthened by the introduction more”islamist” system in the public school while kejawen has been considered as heresy. So it is only the matters of time before he he he the islamist take over this country. If you don’t want this is to happen it is your duties to prove that the only kejawen can save future this country while me at this times are waiting kejawen in actions.

    Remember don’t be failed again otherwise “SATRIO TUDUNG PUTIH” will take over this country.

    Nuwun Sewu,
    Adimas Tudung Putih

  22. avatar Janma says:

    Cukurungan says;

    So it is only the matters of time before he he he the islamist take over this country. If you don’t want this is to happen it is your duties to prove that the only kejawen can save future this country while me at this times are waiting kejawen in actions.

    Remember don’t be failed again otherwise “SATRIO TUDUNG PUTIH” will take over this country.

    I don’t see why you always look that a religious movement will “Save this country”. Countries can’t be saved by religion. It’s not the job of kejawen or islam to save this country. It’s the job of the Indonesian people and the government using sound economic, managerial and humanitarian principles that favor the many not the few.

  23. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Janma,

    I fully agree with you but we have been trapped with the fallacy of democracy system that the dumb voters will vote to the dumb leaders. What you are expecting from the dumb leaders, they always solve the problems by creating even the bigger problems and the bigger problems would produce more dumb people and this spiral of the dumb things will never going to end until the doomed day.

    If there is another Hittler, I will vote to him to lead this country.

    thanks,

  24. avatar Janma says:

    Cukurungan said,

    the fallacy of democracy system that the dumb voters will vote to the dumb leaders.

    All I can say is that you get what you deserve. Dumb people deserve dumb leaders. They had a good leader like Gus Dur who would have cleaned all the spongers and corrupters from parliament, and made many changes for the betterment of Indonesia and it’s people, but he was too good for Indonesia, so they got rid of him via illegal political machinations and nobody did anything to stop it.
    It’s a process, everyone has to grow into it.
    Janma.
    *who wonders if there are any leaders in Indonesia worthy of the task anyway*

  25. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Janma,

    Once you decided going back to Ausi you might bring mr Gus Dur with you. We will give our unique leaders as a gifts to our beloved brother and sister in Australia, hopefully Mr Gus Dur with His Jin and Tuyul could help Mr Howard to invite rainfall and the current prolonged drought season there could be ended soon.

    thanks,

  26. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:

    Let see in the next game anyone has deserves full rights to express and to materialize whatever their dreams as long as it is within “rule of game”‘.

    You are a man of contradictions. A post away, you said shariah is next. Now you said ‘as long as within “rule of game”. May I ask who wrote the rule?

    It seemed you’re locked in “1990 memories” or before. Please check by yourself the situation in the basement or mushola office in Jakarta Central Bisnis Area” you will be astonished with very dramatic change “your kejawen brother” was almost gone while “islamist” are growing even faster.

    Cuk, this is the 21st century with info highway technology like the internet, the same one you using at the moment. I do not need to physically travel that far. With the click of a button and help of a mouse, I check out:
    http://www.Indonesiamatters.com/696/decline-of-islamic-vote/
    See you are wrong again.

    This development has been further strengthened by the introduction more”islamist” system in the public school while kejawen has been considered as heresy. So it is only the matters of time before he he he the islamist take over this country. If you don’t want this is to happen it is your duties to prove that the only kejawen can save future this country while me at this times are waiting kejawen in actions.

    Cuk, I do not subscribe to any form of theocracy governance. You are imagining things again. Why the Islamic vs Kejawen ethos? If you have paid attention to my posts, I said kejawen had diluted the dogmatic nature of Islam (which is godsend) to make it palatable to our cultured tradition. Hence, I would prefer Javanese kejawen over Arabic Islam. Our future generations will be proud to call themselves Anak Indonesia. Native Indonesian like FPI chief, Habib Rizieq, thinks like you. He believe he is born in Yemen and an Arab. You and Habib Rizieq are living proof why kejawen has to stay.

    As always,
    Akangmas

  27. avatar Janma says:

    Cuk,

    the go back to Ausi (Aussie) line you use when anyone ever says something that you disagree with is getting a bit old. You may want to visit insultmongers net, there is a bunch of insults tailor made for you there.

  28. avatar Janma says:

    Plus even if Gus Dur is not radically islamic enough for you, jin and tuyul aren’t what’s causing the problems in this country. Intolerance, Corruption and apathy are.

    Janma.
    *If ignorance is bliss you must be orgasmic*

  29. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Aluang,

    Nothing certain in this world’s except un-certainty itself, the shariah law is the next target and to be proposed and imposed within the rule of games. Once Indonesia moslem believe that there is no law better than God Law. I hope moslem Indonesia realized after 60 years of their betrayal to God law, they achieved nothing except “God punishment” as happened in Ambon, Poso and relentless natural and man made disaster.

    I said “see the next games” not the previous games, I am quite confident with strong trends of “young moslem awareness in their religion”, in the next games, the islamist will perform better. Therefore, I strongly confident that the sharia law question in here is not if but when.

    For sure, my religion didn’t change myself and my kid become “anak Arab” myself and all my kids using nama asli Indonesia and yesterday I attended my kids involved in “peragaan busana daerah” and it wasn’t wearing “jubah & Gamis”.

    However, I proud to become “slave of Creator” and not becomes slave of His creatures.

    Thanks.

  30. avatar Janma says:

    How is the creator should need slaves????
    Did God really create us? Or did we create God?

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