Christianisation

Apr 18th, 2007, in IM Posts, by

Christianisation through sodomy, hypnosis, and kidnapping is rampant in Indonesia.

It is often heard that Indonesia is subject to a process of Christianisation, one example being an old article by one Herry Nurdi in Sabili magazine - "Alert! Christianization is Attacking Campuses" (ALERT! KRISTENISASI MENYERBU KAMPUS), the word "attack" having the sense of "in great numbers" or "stampede", the article having been recently republished on some Indonesian blogs. [1]

Sabili
Sabili magazine cover, warning of Christian missionary guerrilla warfare in Muslim neighbourhoods.

Herry says various university campuses are currently under attack from Christian evangelists. An example given is the case of Adam at the Institut Pertanian Bogor, Bogor Agricultural Institute, a member of the conservative Muslim group NII, Indonesian Islamic State movement. Adam struggles to pay the fees required by NII and after some time he is approached by a cunning Christian student who helps Adam and eventually persuades him to move to the boarding house where he lives.

Thereafter Adam is brainwashed by the devious Christianiser, his mind filled with Christian doctrines, while Adam's Islam is lost. Worse is to come. Adam is later sodomised by someone who claims to be "the saviour of the [lost] sheep".

Murtad
Hartono Ahmad Jaiz has the news.

After all this, even including the Christian sodomising, Adam becomes a confirmed believer and a militant evangelist for Christianity and begins Christianising work at various universities in East Java.

But happily in the end Adam returns to his home in West Sumatra and becomes a Muslim again.

University of Islamic Studies (IAIN)
Muslim girls at the Islamic University of Indonesia (IAIN) are not safe.

A female student also in Bogor, West Java, Rahmi, is befriended by a Christian girl who is very sympathetic and listens to all of Rahmi's problems. Gradually the Christian friend moves the conversation onto religious topics and Rahmi later explains:

It was like I was hypnotised by that Christian student.

It all ended with Rahmi's baptism by her hypnosis expert friend. At the baptism, which was possibly carried out in a dark room, the hypnotist friend was watched over by a more senior person who made sure there were no problems.

Rahmi later says that there were five other students she knew of who had been converted to Christianity by her friend. In any case Rahmi, like Adam, was finally saved by God and returned to Islam. She has made a list of the Muslim students at her university who have been targeted by evangelists but she can't say how many people are on the list:

But it's a lot.

Rahmi complains that the one who baptised her still roams about campus freely, looking for more victims.

Muslim girl praying
Mualaf.com asks about this Acehnese girl: "She survived the tsunami, but will she survive the scavenging missionaries bent on abducting Muslim children "for Christ"".

There are several other case histories of Christianisation given. Wati is converted by a Roman Catholic who impregnates and then marries her. Another Muslimah is kidnapped and made a Christian.

A well-organised gang of Christians at the Universitas Pendidikan Indonesia (UPI/IKIP) in Bandung pretend to be Muslims and succeed in converting several Muslim girls who had previously worn headscarfs and covered their aurat well.

Such stories of conversion to Christianity are said to be only the tip of an iceberg, and Herry warns that Muslims must always be on guard against the enemies of God.


61 Comments on “Christianisation”

Pages: [1] 2 3 »

  1. avatar Yunir says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 1:07 am

    I understand this is not unique to Indonesia as is not a recent phenomena.

    As a magazine/book catered to the Muslims, the publications’ interest in raising awareness of these occurences is understandable. But honestly, it would not really have an impact. Christian missionaries have every right to do what the are doing. Unless of course it’s against the law.

    The Muslim publications should instead, seek to understand why Muslims can easily be influenced. This would be more productive.

    Looking at a global context, I think this is somewhat similar to reactions concerning Islamization of the Europeans.

  2. avatar Saipul says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 3:27 am

    It seems Muslims don’t know the history of their own religion regarding sodomy, which was encouraged in the Muslim world until the British began colonizing the Middle East.

    Yeah, and the rest of the article is pretty much nonsense.

  3. avatar Andrew says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 3:53 am

    … and Herry warns that Muslims must always be on guard against the enemies of God.

    Hillarious.

  4. avatar Robert says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 4:24 am

    Christianisation through sodomy….

    Of course sex is involved. What else.

    Thereafter Adam is brainwashed by the devious Christianiser, his mind filled with Christian doctrines, while Adam’s Islam is lost.

    How come his Islam is lost? It seems that his belief was already on shaky grounds then, and he is even a member of a conservative Muslim group.

    Worse is to come. Adam is later sodomised by someone who claims to be “the saviour of the [lost] sheep”.

    Didn’t he object to the sodomising? He must have liked it then.

    After all this, even including the Christian sodomising, Adam becomes a confirmed believer and a militant evangelist for Christianity and begins Christianising work at various universities in East Java.

    He gets sodomised and he acts like nothing happened, is he raving mad or what?
    What is Christian sodomising anyway? I missed that part of the cathechism. How does it differ from Muslim- or Hindhu sodomising?

    But happily in the end Adam returns to his home in West Sumatra and becomes a Muslim again.

    How did he become a Muslim again then? No brainwashing or sodomising this time?

    Abduction, dark rooms, hypnosis, senior persons watching, tip of the iceberg. This sounds like an episode of the X-files. I am missing the flying saucers and the conspiracy theories. The truth is out there.

  5. avatar Niamh Piperman says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 5:40 am

    I feel sorry for the more intelligent Muslims who have to put up with this sort of nonsense from their own ‘brothers’.

  6. avatar pj_bali says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 5:52 am

    Robert

    X-files?…ya think?

    Actually to me it sounds more like the twilight zone or the script for a gay porno movie. Dosn’t appear to be much connection to reality in this story.

    Muslims beware there are gangs of Christian sodomites cruising the campuses waiting to (literally) fill you with the holy spirit??!!? C’mon get serious.

    If this type of Christianisation process is so rampant why haven’t we heard from Habib Rizieq and his merry men on the subject?

    Forced conversion, kidnapping, and rape are still crimes in Indonesia. If it’s all true and still going on how come nobodies been arrested yet? The perps must be easy to find. Just look for the “saviors of lost sheep”. Those are the guys on campus wearing big red crosses, knee high boots and velcro mitts.

    Cheers

  7. avatar Janma says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 7:32 am

    “She has made a list of the Muslim students at her university who have been targeted by evangelists but she can’t say how many people are on the list:”

    What she can’t say or she can’t count? She made the list right?

  8. avatar Anonymous says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 7:56 am

    Adam is later sodomised by someone who claims to be “the saviour of the [lost] sheep”.

    Is he describing a scene from “Brokeback Mountain”?

    After all this, even including the Christian sodomising, Adam becomes a confirmed believer and a militant evangelist for Christianity and begins Christianising work at various universities in East Java.

    What is Christian sodomising anyway? Probably another classical example of mixing religion with crime, which could mean two things:
    1. An incorrect negative perception from the public about the religion.
    2. An excuse for the criminal to commit the crime.

  9. avatar Yunir says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 8:43 am

    Hi anonymous, you asked,

    What is Christian sodomising anyway? Probably another classical example of mixing religion with crime,..

    Christian sodomising is not about sodomies that is widespread because of Christians.

    It is simply about Christians carrying out missionaries in an implicit manner rather than explicitly calling out, “Come everyone, join Christianity.”

  10. avatar Arema says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 10:08 am

    I read the story with disgust. I’m not even sure whether this story is true or animated. If in on-in-a-million chance that this story is true, let me assure you brothers, those are NOT Christians.

    We live to glorify Jesus’ name, we live to spread the good news about His Love and His death on the cross to redeem you and me, so whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    “Christians” that use such methods to bring more people to “Christianity” is dead wrong, and no better than terrorists, maybe worse.

  11. avatar Janma says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 10:26 am

    I don’t really understand the whole need of religions to collect followers. What is it about? Saving people? I don’t know, they kill and maim people who won’t join their religion and kill and condemn people who change their minds about religion and go to all these lengths to get more followers and more tightly control the existing followers, why? Is it the herding instinct gone mad?
    Do they believe their religion more if a lot of other people believe it? Why do they care if someone becomes a Christian? Or a Muslim or a kejawen or whatever? How do they lose out from that?

  12. avatar Oigal says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 10:42 am

    “I read the story with disgust. I’m not even sure whether this story is true or animated”

    Is it true? Huh? Are you serious? What rampant nonsense. Only scary part is some here even give this kind of thing serious thought! What are you smoking?

  13. avatar aJ says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 10:44 am

    This gotta be the most stupid article I have read in my whole life.

    If a person moves from one religion from another, does it mean that the previous religion is losing a game? Why is there competition among religion?

    The person who wrote the quoted article must be thinking there is a competition to win more followers.

    I think everyone must understand that region is NOT same as political party.

    Everyone should have right to have their own faith, and if in life they consider to follow different faith, it should not be a problem as long as the new faith doesn’t encourage hurting other people.

    About the sodomy, it doesn’t make any sense. I think, if Adam didn’t enjoy it, he should just go to police and arrest the sodomizer, it’s very simple.

  14. avatar Naga says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 11:16 am

    What is the point of this crap?

    It appears to be cut and pasted from something else.

    More Muslim propaganda to assist with the Arabisation of Indonesia.

    The militant Muslim mafia is so paranoid about Indonesia’s tiny Christian population, they will resort to any desperate tactic to create a climate of fear in order to make themselves relevant to the population again.

    Wake up and reject ALL religion, it only divides us all.

  15. avatar Rambutan says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 11:19 am

    Well, what do you expect from a magazine (or more a collection of pamphlets) like Sabili? It is close to JI, MMI, NII – the radical fringes of Indonesian Islam. Don’t think this represents the majority’s opinion.
    However, we have to be cautious. The actual influence of magazines like this is unknown but I am afraid it might be larger than expected. I don’t know how many copies are distributed and read but I would guess that it is considerable, especially in larger cities.
    So, what is needed is a reaction from the largely moderate majority and especially the mass organisations like NU and Muhammadiyah; not only in the form of publications but also by trying to ‘take back’ the university campuses and mosques from the radicals.

  16. avatar Arema says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 11:25 am

    Janma: I’m a Christian so I’d answer you based on Christian faith. I’d let my Muslim brothers explain their fair share.

    It’s not about herding, although we used the word ‘shepherd’ and ‘sheep’ very often to illustrate things. It’s not about collecting followers, it’s not about a competition of which religion got the most believers. It’s about love.

    God is a perfect being, and as a perfect being, He demands perfection. A person that commit one sin throughout his whole life is condemned to hell, because he’s not perfect. That’s why in the Old Testament era, people are offering sacrifices to God to ask for forgiveness.

    God knows that no one in this world is perfect. Not a single one. And because of that all humans will be condemned to go to hell. He loves us, so He don’t want to see us go to hell. But on the other hand He is also just / fair (adil), so sin must be punished. The two character of God clashed, Love and Just, that seems do not have a win-win solution. Is that true?

    No. Jesus is the answer. God sent His Only Son Jesus to be the Saviour of mankind. Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross to pay for the sin of all those who believed in Him. God send Jesus to earth and become human, because only a human can bear another human’s sin. Only Jesus is eligible to bear all others’ sin, because He is sinless. And only those who believed in Jesus shall have their sins taken and paid by Jesus. By believing in Jesus, we know that although we are sinful, our place in Heaven is assured.

    Jesus is the only way. None of our work is meaningful in outweighing our sin. It’s like cooking a delicious cake with 9 good eggs and 1 badly rotten egg. In the end the cake is not edible and will be thrown away. Sin has made us disgusting in God’s eyes, and no matter how good we are, it’s just not good enough. And good enough for God, is perfect.

    Now, if you had heard this good news, you’d want to share it with others right? So do we. Based on our love to others, we share the Gospel (good news). We want our beloved brothers, sisters, friends, parents, everyone to go to Heaven. Salvation is a free gift. It is the greatest gift one can ever receive. Do you want to receive that gift…?

  17. avatar Arema says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 11:28 am

    Hi Oigal,

    I don’t smoke. =)

    And if you don’t give serious thought to something that is important to you, surely that thing is not that important afterall, right?

  18. avatar Ihaknt says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    Silly people do and say silly things. I agree with Robert, those who are ‘brainwashed’ didn’t have a strong enough faith to start with. It’s all about blaming game.

  19. avatar Suhada says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    Assalamualaikum. As a Muslim I’m deeply concerned about this matter, of course. But in a rather different way I presume.

    I’m not in the position to either verify or falsify the accuracy of the article. But I’m aware that certain acts to persuade Muslims to embrace Christianity is real. Whether it trough such a disgusting manner as sodomy or rather metaphysical such as hypnosis, I can’t tell. But the very maneuver is real and not surprisingly familiar in many circumstances.

    But before we got deeper into this manner I must emphasize that this case is not exclusively Christian. We can find the evidences that this phenomenon flourished within any other religious beliefs. Be it Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddha and even in those esoteric sects. Thus we must, indeed, be alerted of this Chritianisation devious maneuvers. But in the other hand we must realize and be aware that we also share the very same plague.

    It might be the story of Adam and Wati bear their truth. But I also aware of the truth that in certain places we can find rapes made by “Muslims” in order to force their victims to embrace Islam (I reluctantly refer to those savages as Muslims, I prefer to refer to them as “Muslims”. Hence emphasize their hipocrisy). We might be disgusted at the sight of Mr. Bush that arrogantly invade Afganisthan and Iraq under such as chauvinistic Christian jargons and paradigm. But I can’t help myself not to be horrified at the sight of Imam Samudra who smile grimly while he cold-bloodedly commited such a devious mass murder under the misled view of Jihad.

    Jawaharlal Nehru once said that ” Within religions one can find the divine yet the wicked.” Such a grim weltanschauung, but it rings somehow the exact manner of religions ambivalence. Religions had and will always encourage their believers to walk within the path of divine light. Yet here and there, now and then, we can witness how religious jargons and percepts can drive some of their followers to “unleash hell” –to borrow the word of Maximus during his battle in Germania.

    The passion to encourage others believers to convert into a certain beliefs is seemingly noble and somewhat reflect an act of faith. But in fact, we can’t be more erroneous. It is actually driven by primordial triumphalism. It is driven by the bestial lust of domination.

    Unfortunately we have to admit that we can find phrases and passages in every holy texts that can be viewed erroneously as justification for such triumphalism– particularly under the light of fanaticism, fundamentalism and textualism. Such percepts oftentimes rise from the failure to grasp the real message of the passages given. Hence we can see the significance of hermeneutic to comprehend the message of a certain passage within the real context. (Further discussion about hermeneutic can be found within my previous comments on such topics as: Baiturrahman Mosque, Anti apostasy.) T. Huxley once said, in his book Science and Hebrew tradition: “Wherever bibliolatry has prevailed, bigotry and cruelty have accompanied it.”

    Under textualism, believers fail to recognize the inclusive side of their faith. They perceive faith as a mere strict exclusive entity. Thus we oftentimes refer the others as infidels, destined to doom; “Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur)”. Under the light of such exclusivism we somehow are tempted to converse those infidels in order to save them. What a noble and caring act.. But unfortunately nothing can be more erroneous.

    Let us see first that our faith also bear inclusive perception. Let us learn that Allah wants us to pay respect to faiths. Be it ours, be it others. The certain passages in the Holy Quran such as: “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things” and “Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve” give us a vivid view of how Allah perceive diversity in faiths. We refer Allah as “Most Gracious, Most Merciful” but we fail to view our faith within somewhat gracious and merciful manner.

    Within Christianity, such passage as “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth” is viewed as a legitimate justification to spread Christianity. There’s nothing inherently wrong within this perception. But unfortunately, in many cases, they fall into such low practices in order to spread the faith. The perception of Christianity as the only way of salvation often urge them to “save” the unbelievers. Convert them into Christian, thus they will be noticed as “the heir of kingdom of heaven.” Those triumphalist just fail to see such passage as: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven” as an indication that Gods compassionate can not be bounded within either narrow creeds or exclusive dogmas.

    In conclusion, we must bear in mind that triumphalism is widely shared among religions. We must also be aware that nothing can be more erroneous than letting triumphalistic perception drive us into a pursue of domination among religious beliefs. We must also acknowledge the inclusive side of our faith. We have to see religious beliefs as an act of love intended to Allah of “Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek” rather than mere dogmas or creed. Hence we can respect others and, furthermore, accept them as brothers and sisters within this diversity of faiths. Thus, insya Allah, we will eventually be able to share this “fragile blue planet” –as Joe Satriani, that virtuoso guitarist, once said in his comment on one of his classic masterpiece “Crystal Planet”– in a peaceful and civilized manner. Allahuakbar! Wassalam…

  20. avatar Dimp says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Being stupid and regretting your decision at a later stage does not mean that you have been hypnosized (is this actually a word).

  21. avatar Naga says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 12:42 pm

    Indonesians need to stop believing in mythology and black magic and need to start believing in themselves, only then will this country and its plight change for the better.

  22. avatar Arema says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    Hi Suhada, I’ve read your impressive comment, and I do respect that.

    I’m particularly interested in your view that religion is merely “cosmetics” of what is truly an act of worship to God.

    I will not elaborate further in Christianity as I’ve said all I wanted to say on my previous comment. I’m not being triumphalist either by saying that my belief is the real truth, and everything else is false. But of course to me, it is the truth, otherwise no point in believing. But I’d rather not express that to others as a form of respect.

    But do you believe that there is an absolute truth? Do you believe God has a law for all of His creation?

    If yes, then I’d encourage you to find out that truth. Pray to God and ask for His wisdom, and He will give you. Seek, and you will find.

    That’s all I can say. God Bless you Suhada. =)

  23. avatar Shan says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    When it comes to religion, and attempting to speak for it, I think it would do wonders for all those who write for it to do this simple exercise (simple for me, but may be hard for others!):
    1. Take a deep breath, and release. (I assure you, there’s no hypnosis going on here)
    2. Close your eyes for a few minutes, and imagine yourself believing, with all your heart, a completely different religion than the one you are in right now.
    3. Open your eyes with the faith that you have adopted for these few minutes, and read what you have just written.
    4. Observe if it sounds patronising, condescending or insulting to you, you of the completely different faith.
    5. If it does, please delete it. If you can upset others, you’ve just set a few more people away from the great religion that you actually belong to.
    6. If it doesn’t, post it then, and always remember that every follower of any religion who thinks he or she is a good follower thinks that their religion is the answer to all… :)

  24. avatar Suhada says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 9:09 pm

    Assalamualaikum. My beloved brother, Arema. I would like, at first, to apologize if there are some statements within any of my comments which lead you to a conclusion that I somehow perceive religion as merely “cosmetics” of what is truly an act of worship to God. But unfortunately, that can not be further from the truth.

    What I criticize –in rather harsh and straight forward manner, I presume– is the tendency to perceive faith and religiosity in superficial manners. As a Muslim I can not help but feel disgusted by the fact that many of my brothers and sisters in faith are more eager in dealing such trivial matters as: should a Muslimah wear veils, how long should a Muslim grow their beard, how long our trousers should fall, etc. And I’m deeply concerned about textualism, the tendency to read Holy texts literally. By ignoring such a critical methodology as hermeneutic. Hence we often times fall into practices of bibliolatry.

    I do respect tradition of Islam. I do eagerly strive to broaden my knowledge about the doctrines, dogma and rules in Islam. But I do believe that we must be able to obtain the real message behind all of those practice.

    I do believe and quite certain about the authority of Holy Quran as the word of Allah. But I strive at my best to really distinguish His message from the socio-cultural matrix –which often times obscure my mortal vision of His divine guidance.

    I do belive in the vastness and richness of the virtues a Muslim can find in Holy Quran. Quran, to a Muslim, is an ever flowing fountain of divine virtue and guidance. There is no single doubt about it in my heart and mind. But I keep in mind that Quran is not meant to substitute Allah Himself. Quran is the way Allah show Himself in a certain way that low mortals like us will be able to comprehend His words. Allah by far is beyond any human comprehension. Hence Quran will never be able to represent the Greatness of Allah in a comprehensive manner. Hence we must not bound or restrain Allah within our limited percept based on “merely” Holy text and tradition. It would be such a blasphemy!

    And I do believe that the same principal can be applied into any given religious beliefs. We must perceive faith as an act of love. Thus the language that is being used is the language of love. What we mean by the truth is the truth under the light of love and compassion. It doesn’t necessarily urge us to be relativists. It just help us to be humble about our faith. A beautiful picture of faith can be seen within the relation between an adoring boy with his beloved father. A son might say that he has the best father in the world. It is true. The statement bears the truth since it was expressed in a language of love. But the statement itself never bears any logical consequence that any other father in the world is worse by all mean.

    Furthermore, faith must be “experienced” not to be “logically accepted”. It doesn’t mean that we have to let go of our logic and ratio to “experience” faith. But we must bear in mind that any religious doctrines, creeds, dogmas, apologetics are not flawles by nature. Those thing ares man made, thus are imperfect. Hence we must seek God not by evaluating the reason behind particular belief. But rather to evaluate whether we can “experience” God from the religious practices of a certain relious belief. Yes, the matter itself is inevitably subjective by nature. But religion is, indeed, subjective. There will be no more erroneous perception than perceive faith as objective entity.

    So let us be modest and humble about our faith. Let us learn from the wisdom of a welll reknowned apostle and established theologist as well when he said :”When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” Yes, it was Paul the apostle himself that modestly acknowledge the limitancy of his mortal perception of the All-Mighty God despite his vast knowledge and understanding of theological manner.

    If the All-Mighty Himself acknoledge the inclusive truth of religions (“Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”) How come we, as mere mortal servant of His, would take such a pride by claiming that truth is just ours. And refers the rest as mere infidels, destined to doom.

    Let us be contempt to be certain of our truth. But let us also restrain ourself to judge the other as being missled. Save the judgement to Allah Homself. Isa Al-Masih Himself once said: “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” Wassalam.

  25. avatar Matahari says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    I won’t be surprised if this nonsense article hallucinated and created by Muslim, this kind of article appears many times in North Sulawesi back in 1997-1999 (they did this in Central Sulawesi too) in order to provoke the people in the region, fortunately, most people in this region (North Sulawesi) are smarter than those who sending or spread the article.

    In most cases people who distributed these leaflets they either get kick out by the locals (Muslims and Christians) or interrogated by Christian leaders and Muslim leaders or reported straight to the police and surprise, surprise, they are not the local people, they from other area out of Sulawesi.

    You see, some people get easily to be provoked by nonsense, in North Sulawesi they have some kind of bonding between the Christian and non Christians, their slogan is “torang samua basudara” means we all family, you can see this slogan first time you arrived either in the Sam Ratulangi Airport or Bitung Harbor.

    Sodomised? Hypnotized? Get real!

  26. avatar Odinius says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 9:49 pm

    Suhada and Arema: you’re taking this way too seriously. It’s the rantings of a bunch of lunatic fanatics. Christians evangelizing via sodomy?!

    aJ said:

    This gotta be the most stupid article I have read in my whole life.

    Couldn’t agree more.

  27. avatar Yunir says:
    April 18th, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    Hi, Odinius, I think you got the wrong idea of what is meant by sodomization,

    I quote myself,

    It is simply about Christians carrying out missionaries in an implicit manner rather than explicitly calling out, “Come everyone, join Christianity.”

    That is, helping people who are in need of financial help and claim, “Join us, we are a religion that help our fellow brothers and sisters.”
    - something like that.

    It is happening and has happened before since colonial times – especially in Africa.
    It’s not unique in Indonesia.

    In any case, I don’t see what’s wrong with them doing this kind of missionary work.

    Christians should not oppose this missionary style and Muslims should not complain. Muslims should instead, seek to understand why fellow Muslims are so easily influenced and why aren’t we helping our own community? But I have to admit, I have not read the publications and maybe they did in fact, address the above issues (Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t – I don’t know).

  28. avatar Panta says:
    April 19th, 2007 at 12:46 am

    “don’t really understand the whole need of religions to collect followers. What is it about? “

    The people who have the responsibility to distribute the message of their religions Missionary, Priest, Ulama or Guru are after all only human beings and who have to make sense of their own interpretation of what they read and are therefore open to human error! They can often be mistaken and want to preach their own message to their followers and cover their mistakes in order to protect their own positions and institutions. Position and institutions are mostly requiring followers not the religion itself.

    “The actual influence of magazines like this is unknown but I am afraid it might be larger than expected. I don’t know how many copies are distributed and read but I would guess that it is considerable, especially in larger cities.”

    People will often be enraged by what they are told or believe by the media who have already set their own agendas that are mostly instruction from the media owners interacted with organized propaganda based on power, money and of course corruption. Media is only a source to give information about what happens outside of our own space. And usually the information relayed by somebody else can be wrong. But even wrong information could be useful when we are thinking deeply.

    We find therefore that many people have been turning away from their religious and spiritual bases because of misinterpretation or misunderstanding by the teachers or ulama that often take up their own causes and preach their own personal interests and agendas. Therefore the teachers who bring their own personal ideas into their religious thought are largely responsible for followers leaving their religions. Many Muslim’s convert to be non Muslim as they are fed up with most ulama that are still corrupt, or have sex scandal, or are hypocritical, etc.

    As a minor community in Indonesia, Christian people are very close in their relationship with each other. I still remember when my Christian grandma was sick, everyday several people from the Christian church came to pray at my grandma’s house. People from the church were giving care to the needy people who were living amongst the Muslim community as the Muslim’s were not caring for them. This situation is easy for non Muslim’s converting Muslims as the Muslims themselves were supporting the Christians. How many people claim that they converting to Islam is not because they follow Islamic people? In other words many of Muslims are also sick of the Muslim community.

  29. avatar Anonymous says:
    April 19th, 2007 at 7:56 am

    Yunir,

    Hi, Odinius, I think you got the wrong idea of what is meant by sodomization,

    I quote myself,

    It is simply about Christians carrying out missionaries in an implicit manner rather than explicitly calling out, “Come everyone, join Christianity.”

    There’s nothing from the passage that suggests the term ‘sodomization’ is not what it is.
    Even if your interpretation of the article is correct, then this simply shows how bias this article is towards bad-framing Christianity.

  30. avatar guebukanmonyet says:
    April 19th, 2007 at 8:14 am

    Those radical Muslims should be ashamed of themselves. And those books and magazines, they’re so ridiculous. That is not Islam. I’m a Muslim and I’m ashamed to be part of this Muslim community that we have in Indonesia. That is not Islam at all. Let them do what they do and let people decide which religions they want to be with, Muslim clerics should focus on improving the quality of their teaching instead of making a new war against other religion. If there are some Indonesian Muslims who convert to Christianity those “smart” people must seek within what’s going wrong. Is it that Islamic teaching that they’re preaching is not attractive enough? or probably it is because of the economic factors? or else.

    Those people think that winning is all about quantity, it’s about who has the most followers. It’s not about that! It’s about the quality of Islam that people can implement in their daily lives. Let people choose which side they want to be, and let’s just focus on how to improve the quality of Islam that we can offer.

    I agree with Mba Panta, we have so many lousy Ulama or clerics. And since we have so many Indonesians who are not well educated, these people think that clerics have all the answers and sadly many clerics use this situation as a tool for them to fulfill their own interests.

    Those magazines and books are propagandas to make our “stupid” Muslims have rage and anger toward other religions. And I’m sick of that. Islam is a religion of peace and love not only for Muslims themselves but also to all people in this world. Let them know how beautiful Islam is, how peaceful our religion is. Islam is not a religion based on hatred. Even western scholars agree that Islamic empire was the only empire in history that allowed people from different-religious backgrounds to live in harmony. That is the true Islam!

    This article does not reflect religions: Islam or Christianity. Both religions are not wrong. It’s the people who use religions as the tools for them to gain their interests who should be condemned.

Pages: [1] 2 3 »



Your view on “Christianisation” :


RSS
RSS feed
Email

Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-14
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact