Zainuddin MZ

Apr 3rd, 2007, in IM Posts, by

Zainuddin MZ, the "cleric of a million followers".

Vice president Jusuf Kalla said on the 2nd in Jakarta that Muslim leader Zainuddin had once again become a preacher for all Muslims in Indonesia.

Kalla said that in the past he had often listened to Zainuddin's sermons but after Zainuddin entered politics and formed the Reform Star Party, Partai Bintang Reformasi (PBR), he didn't listen to the sermons anymore, because Zainuddin had become a preacher for just a part of the faithful by his entrance into partisan politics. Previously he had been famously known as the "preacher of a million followers" (dai sejuta umat).

Zainuddin
Zainuddin.

Zainuddin first formed the United Development Party of Reform (PPP Reformasi), a split off from the United Development Party (PPP), and in 2003 this new party changed its name to become the Partai Bintang Reformasi (PBR). Zainuddin led the PBR until mid 2006 at which time he decided not to re-contest the party leadership after some bruising and bitter internal fights (including a knifing attack on one party supporter) within the party.

Now Kalla said Zainuddin had returned to his proper, non-partisan, role, and he hoped that Zainuddin would once again preach to all Indonesian Muslims. Twenty percent of the world's Muslims were Indonesian, said Kalla, and:

If Indonesian Muslims are good then 20% of the world Islamic community is good.

Kalla hoped that Indonesian Muslims could lead the way for world Islam and set a good example, with Zainuddin at the forefront. [1]


44 Comments on “Zainuddin MZ”

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  1. avatar Madesh says:
    April 3rd, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    If Indonesian Muslims are good then 20% of the world Islamic community is good.

    And the rest is bad isn’t it?

  2. avatar Ihaknt says:
    April 3rd, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    Laughable statement. How could he judge something that massive with 20:80 theory. What makes them better than the rest anyway? This statement is not measurable.

  3. avatar Jakarta Butuh Revolusi Budaya says:
    April 4th, 2007 at 3:11 am

    What? Now he’s back because the politic world just could not give him enough money. And afer Gym started to lose his reputation last year because of his practice on polygamy I guess Zainuddin thought that this was his time to return.

    If there are still a lot of famous clerics like Zainuddin or Gym in Indonesia who people listen to then I guess this country is still left behind. A great nation doesn’t need clerics to tell its people what to do. A great nation has smart people who can justify what to do whether wrong or right on their on behalf.

    In Indonesia clerics are like gods, they have prestigious level in the society, and it’s messed up. All people think that clerics are so holy and they’re always right. Some of us don’t realize that even clerics are just ordinary people who happen to have gifs of a good-talking abilitiy.

    So, let’s not listen to those clerics. Just ask your own hearts.

  4. avatar Anonymous says:
    April 4th, 2007 at 8:19 am

    Well, at least Kalla is acknowledging that there are bad people who happen to be Muslims in this world. It’s very sad that some people still don’t see that. All they care is that as long as he/she is a Muslim, then they will do all they can to defend him/her (against non-Muslims).

  5. avatar Jakarta Butuh Revolusi Budaya says:
    April 4th, 2007 at 9:51 am

    I think the reason why he returned is because he didn’t get enough money from the politics world. I guess he made a lousy politician. And as Gym started to lose his reputation because of his practice on polygamy Zainuddin probably thought that this was the time for him to come back.

    This country still needs a lot of clerics to solve problems, and this situation shows that we’re still not a great nation. Our people are not smart enough to be able to ask themselves for every single problem that they face in daily life. It seems like clerics have all the answers for everything. We forget that even clerics are only ordinary people like us.

  6. avatar Oigal says:
    April 4th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    “cleric of a million followers

    Followers about sums it up.

  7. avatar Sputjam says:
    April 4th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    Muslim ignore God’s messages in the Koran concerning clerics.

    They have taken their priest and rabbis as lord besides the God, as well as Christ the son of mary. They were commanded not to serve, but the one God; there is no God except He. much too glorious to have partners. (9:31- Quran)

    Now after reading this, which is from the koran and Muslims believe to be from God, why do they not heed the advice?

    Did God tell us to read the koran or listen to maniac clerics? and the Koran continues as follows:-

    9:32 They want to extinguish God’s light with their mouths, but God refuses such and lets His light continue, even if the rejecters hate it.
    9:33 He is the One who sent His messenger with guidance and the system of truth, to make it expose all other systems, even if those who set up partners hate it.

    and the intention of clerics is clarified in the following verse:-

    9:34 O you who believe, many of the Priests and Monks consume people’s money in falsehood, and they turn away from the path of God. And those who hoard gold and silver, and do not spend it in the cause of God, give them news of a painful retribution.

    and the final ending for people like Zainuddin I stated below :-

    9:35 On the Day when they will be seared in the fires of Hell, and their foreheads and sides and backs will be branded with it: “This is what you have hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you have hoarded!”

    So there you are people. Wake up and heed the guidance of the Creator.

  8. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:
    April 4th, 2007 at 10:31 pm

    Friend,

    I will become a Kyai. But Friend, please remember: there are no ‘clerics’ in Islam. Islam is a religion without priests. We need the Zainuddin’s to help us interpret the Koran. And remember, Oigal is the man who once said he ‘didn’t care if [the reader] worshipped a tea cup’. Friend, I will never worship a tea cup!

    Achmad.

  9. avatar orgindo says:
    April 5th, 2007 at 6:40 am

    IF’

    I wish I could change the font so I could make a “BIG IF”.

  10. avatar Parvita says:
    April 5th, 2007 at 7:55 am

    We need the Zainuddin’s to help us interpret the Koran.

    WHOAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA…….(LMAO)

  11. avatar Sputjam says:
    April 5th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Friend,
    I did not write holy books. You want to argue, you will have ample time in the next life, with the Creator himself.

    Your responsibility is to study the holy books yourself. And if God sees fit, He will guide you correctly. Do not let others intepret God’s messages for you.

    Before the internet, there was only Yusof Ali/pickthall etc. Now we have numerous translation of the Koran which opens up a whole new revelation unknown before. And the more you study, the more beautiful it becomes.

    One Chapter a day is not tedious. Skip the second chapter as it is too long, Start at chapter 20 or 30. And slowly, God willing, you will be amongst those who are guided.

    And please stop all ritual worship. It was propagated by pagan Arabs who were enemies of prophet Mohamed. Be like Abraham, who enquired to his father, “what is this you worship?”

    Remember, God is free of all wants. He does not require your ritual worship and offerings. All praise be for God alone. If you need Him, all you have to do is call to Him. He is close to you and aware of everything you do and think.

    Remember, if the messages propagated through Moses and Jesus were corrupted, what makes you think the messages propagated through Prophet Mohamed escaped unscathed, including the translation of the Koran.

    Men are mischievious. be observant. And Read the scriptures.

    And lastly, after giving you the warnings from the Koran, and you choose not to heed the warning and continue to listen to clerics/imams/ayatollahs, then you must be prepared to meet the consequences.

  12. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    April 5th, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Well, There is a lot of sensible talk on here, I wonder where our more conservative brothers are hiding?

    Peace

  13. avatar Ihaknt says:
    April 5th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

    Ono, I’d rather worship a tea cup then having another interpretation of the Quran.

  14. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    April 5th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    I’d rather have a cup of tea whilst reading Ono’s comments!

  15. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:
    April 7th, 2007 at 11:30 pm

    Achmad Sudarsono, I beg to differ. Worshipping a teacup is better than worshipping a foreign dubious deity who entertained favouritism in favour of another race in a far-away land to help spread his message, and that His message can ONLY be read in that language. Why didn’t God think we are special, and choose one of our many dialects.

    So long as the succession of our leaders remain in the hand of the Javanese, Indonesia will remain Indonesia. Our kebatinan commandments, “God is within you. God is everywhere. But do not think you are God.” take precedence whatever religious group you are in. The ‘God’ in this commandment can be Allah, Christian God, or Hindu God. As such Indonesian Muslim do not have the ‘My God is better than your God’ mentality.

    This explain why Indonesian Islam is unique because of Javanese kebatinan! LOL Mr. Khafi, I hope you do agree with me on this.

  16. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:
    April 7th, 2007 at 11:32 pm

    and that His message can ONLY be read in that language.

    should be read as: and that His message can ONLY be appreciated fully in that language.

  17. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    April 8th, 2007 at 9:54 am

    Aluang anak Bayang Said:

    Achmad Sudarsono, I beg to differ. Worshipping a teacup is better than worshipping a foreign dubious deity who entertained favouritism in favour of another race in a far-away land to help spread his message, and that His message can ONLY be appreciated fully in that language. Why didn’t God think we are special, and choose one of our many dialects.

    So long as the succession of our leaders remain in the hand of the Javanese, Indonesia will remain Indonesia. Our kebatinan commandments, “God is within you. God is everywhere. But do not think you are God.” take precedence whatever religious group you are in. The ‘God’ in this commandment can be Allah, Christian God, or Hindu God. As such Indonesian Muslim do not have the ‘My God is better than your God’ mentality.

    This explain why Indonesian Islam is unique because of Javanese kebatinan! LOL Mr. Khafi, I hope you do agree with me on this.

    Whilst I agree with your general principles, I cannot help but feel that you are selling Allah and Al Quran a little short, let me try and explain.

    foreign dubious deity? Well Al Quran clearly says that there is one Allah or God, He is the same one regardless of which religion you follow, He clearly says that He is worshipped in Churches, Temples and Mosques:

    Those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right, except that they say, “our Lord is Allah”. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid Him;- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might.

    22:40

    This verse also states implicitly that Allah has created us this way to act as a check on each other, to keep each other headed on the right path, certainly not to hate and kill each other, nor even to change each others beliefs, this is reinforced in other verses:

    How come they unto thee for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment? Yet even after that they turn away. Such are not believers.
    Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests by such of Allah’s Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
    And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers. And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Injeel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
    Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.

    And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ. 5:43-48

    You said that Allah’s message can only be really appreciated fully in Arabic, but is that really true? Allah’s message is simple and clear in meaning, there is no reason that it cannot be appreciated in other languages, only those trying to protect vested interest normally say such a thing, they are the ones who don’t want people understanding the simplicity of His message, they are the ones whose livelihoods depend on having people who cannot read and understand Arabic, and who believe that the message cannot be understood unless it is in Arabic.

    We can read Al Quran in any language and appreciate it’s message, because it is Allah who puts it into our hearts.

    As to the question of language, Allah clearly states in Al Quran that he always sends messengers with the language of the people who are receiving the message:

    And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise. 14:04

    So did we ignore Allah’s Messenger who brought the message? Or did we accept Allahs message and our own religion from Him which the Arab Muslims have since replaced with their own? Only Allah knows the answer to that question.

    Peace

  18. avatar Cukurungan says:
    April 8th, 2007 at 10:46 am

    Aluang,

    Don’t tell me that “java kebatinan” or “islam kejawen” is a better than other religion and our indigineous culture is a peaceful culture.

    Why I said so because myself was raised and came from such community and even until now during ritual “bersih desa” villagers around my home kampung still worship to my grand father in “punden”.

    The islam kebatinan mostly developed by kraton members who didn’t want physically fight against Dutch domination and they were playing their own imagination diverted their shameful reality live (under Dutch) to the proud imagination life. They were performing some rituals and “laku” to understand “sangkan paraning dumadi” or origin of life, anyone don’t have understand “ngelmu sejatine urip and urip sejati” or the perfect living would never reach “mati sampurna” or perfect death.

    History of our indigenous culture are full with bloodshed and cheating. All Javanese aware, how king of thieves Ken Arok becomes founders of JAVANESE KINGDOM after killed and take wife’s of a legitimate rulers at that times, history of the cheating during the power struggle in Pajang and Mataram Kingdom and even Suharto cheated Sukarno to take power from Him.

    So no wonder that the corruption in Indonesia will never go as long as our Leaders succesion remain in “Kejawen Hand” because it is already inherited in our blood.

    Thanks.

  19. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:
    April 8th, 2007 at 10:56 am

    Well Al Quran clearly says that there is one Allah or God, He is the same one regardless of which religion you follow, He clearly says that He is worshipped in Churches, Temples and Mosques:

    Your statement is purely Javanese belief. Non-Indonesian Muslims will disagree with you. What is the difference between your statement and “God is within you. God is everywhere. But do not think you are God.”?

    You said that Allah’s message can only be really appreciated fully in Arabic, but is that really true?

    Ah, once again I forget I am speaking to an Indonesian Muslim. No wonder it is frustrating for non-Indonesian Muslims to identify with us. My in-laws are pious Muslims from Solo. Pious Muslim because they do not miss their 5 times prayers. They would even make up for it if they missed. Yet they would fight tooth and nail if you try to remove their Buddha statue from their living room.

    During my college years, our student leader had trouble explaining to other Muslim student groups why we were celebrating christmas, and why ham sandwiches were served. His explaination was simple, logical and straight forward, although not well received. “Allah did not haram pork, but simply discourage Muslims from eating pork because of high cholestrol. If you don’t like pork, just pull off the ham pieces”. Let’s keep our Islam that way.

    Mr. Khafi, if you are from Central Java or Yogya area, I bet you will have a picture of Ramayana or Buddha statue sitting somewhere in your living room. Do you know this is syrik?

  20. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:
    April 8th, 2007 at 5:54 pm

    Cuk:

    Every civilisation has their fair share of violence. Usurping of power always end in bloodshed. Our ancestors adhered to the moral code of the day and know when to stop. Yes, Javanese kebatinan are far more mature than that of the 7th century barbaric culture that you so adored.

    If you are a Javanese, be proud of your own culture. The Balinese has many rituals and people came from all over the world to see them. If we want to see Arab rituals, we go to Middle Eastern countries. Adopting their ritual and make it your own is not authentic. Rituals are part and parcel of a tradition. It is unique and enhanced the beauty of a culture and eventhough they may seem silly to you, it was molded in tune to the beliefs of the people of that society.

    Since you are a Muslim, Javanese “bersih desa” may be silly and unIslamic to you, but I am sure it is important to your ancestors. Have you thought of what non-Muslim Indonesians thought of your adopted identity? Circling of stone, and throwing stones at stone is silly and unIndonesian.

  21. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    April 8th, 2007 at 8:42 pm

    Aluang anak Bayang said:

    Well Al Quran clearly says that there is one Allah or God, He is the same one regardless of which religion you follow, He clearly says that He is worshipped in Churches, Temples and Mosques:

    Your statement is purely Javanese belief. Non-Indonesian Muslims will disagree with you. What is the difference between your statement and “God is within you. God is everywhere. But do not think you are God.”?

    My statement is not Javanese belief, it is only a reflection of what Allah says in Al Quran:

    Those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right, except that they say, “our Lord is Allah”. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid Him;- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might. 22:40

    Many enough Indonesian Muslims do not agree but they don’t read Al Quran and understand it, they just make the Arabic noises without understanding the meaning, better they read in a language which they can understand and in that way can grasp the teachings contained in The Book. Allah says:

    And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:17

    Anybody who says that you need teachers to teach you the meanings is lying, it is Allah who puts the message into peoples hearts!

    As to “”God is within you. God is everywhere. But do not think you are God.” Nothing wrong with that at all as far as I can see, his presence permeates our entire existence does it not?

    You said that Allah’s message can only be really appreciated fully in Arabic, but is that really true?

    Ah, once again I forget I am speaking to an Indonesian Muslim. No wonder it is frustrating for non-Indonesian Muslims to identify with us. My in-laws are pious Muslims from Solo. Pious Muslim because they do not miss their 5 times prayers. They would even make up for it if they missed. Yet they would fight tooth and nail if you try to remove their Buddha statue from their living room.

    Allah’s message is simple, the essence of it is believing in God, believing in the Day of Judgement, and doing good deeds.

    Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans – whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. 2:62

    Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians – Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. 5:69

    So they have a Buddha statue in their living room, as long as they are not worshipping it, what is wrong with that? Siddhartha Gotama whom the statue represents is not a god or The God and never claimed to be one, he was a human being who achieved a state of enlightenment, a state that people of whatever faith or even no faith can acheive.

    During my college years, our student leader had trouble explaining to other Muslim student groups why we were celebrating christmas, and why ham sandwiches were served. His explaination was simple, logical and straight forward, although not well received. “Allah did not haram pork, but simply discourage Muslims from eating pork because of high cholestrol. If you don’t like pork, just pull off the ham pieces”. Let’s keep our Islam that way.

    Well I don’t really know about celebrating Christmas, I don’t have any problem with my Christian friends celebrating it and wishing them a Merry Christmas, but as to actually celebrating it myself well to be honest No!. With regard to eating pork, that is clearly forbidden in Al Quran and in Torah, actually specifically the flesh of swine:

    “He has forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine…” 2:173

    “Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, and the flesh of swine…” 5:3

    “Say [O Muhammad]: ‘I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine…” 6:145

    “He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine…” 16:115

    I am quite happy to eat many other things which some schools of thought consider sinful such as Crabs, Shrimp, Shark, Frog etc as these rules are manmade and not instructions from Allah.

    Mr. Khafi, if you are from Central Java or Yogya area, I bet you will have a picture of Ramayana or Buddha statue sitting somewhere in your living room. Do you know this is syrik?

    Well I am not from Central Java or Yogya, and I don’t have any pictures of Ramayana or Buddha Statues and even if I did I wouldn’t consider having them to be commiting Shirk. The point you are missing is that only if you are worshipping the figures or representations and holding them up to be partners with God are you commiting Shirk, in fact it doesn’t even have to be a representation or statue, you are commiting Shirk if you are holding others up with God, if you are for instance taking manmade rules and considering them to be from God, or mentioning somebody else in your prayers and worship which should be purely devoted to Allah.

    Peace

  22. avatar Cukurungan says:
    April 8th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    Aluang,

    All religions in Indonesia was brought up by foreigners so your claim that your kejawen is the Javanese own religion are not quite correct. Your kejawen is no different with “music dangdut” mixture between India, Arabic and melayu music.

    Every religion has own silly ritual and dogma why I have to bother with that.

    Moslem Circling of stone, and throwing stones at stone are only recommended one time in their live while other religion has to kill their sexual desire and maintain their virginity until they death.

    If you’re happy becoming a living museum go head with your tapa pendem, poso mutih , batch up in 40 different waterfall and don’t forget keep in your home “tahi kyai slamet” ( drop of bule buffalo) and enjoy its smell.

    For me religion is my ultimate bet for my own live so I never even think that my religion is a part of turis attractions.

    thanks,

  23. avatar Hassan says:
    April 8th, 2007 at 11:03 pm

    Mohammed Khafi:

    “I wonder where our more conservative brothers are hiding?”

    I, for one, am currently ‘hiding’ behind certain projects that needs to be done. Thought I ought to check on you guys once a while.

    “if you are for instance taking manmade rules and considering them to be from God,..”

    How about taking manmade rules instead of God’s laws? Didn’t Allah SWT elaborated His laws in the Quran? And why are you following those manmade laws in the KUHP and UUD ’45?

    “Allah’s message is simple, the essence of it is believing in God, believing in the Day of Judgement, and doing good deeds.”

    “Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans – whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. 2:62″

    And how would this verse fit into your pluralistic view?

    Quran 3:19 “Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.”

    Aluang anak Bayang:

    “Achmad Sudarsono, I beg to differ. Worshipping a teacup is better than…”

    Yes, I’m sure worshipping a teacup is better than worshipping long-dead ancestors ;) And you’re right, both are non-living entities.

    Sputjam :

    “And please stop all ritual worship. It was propagated by pagan Arabs who were enemies of prophet Mohamed. Be like Abraham, who enquired to his father, “what is this you worship?”"

    Al Quran Sura Al Baqarah alone is sufficient to counter your rantings:

    Quran 2:133 “Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma’il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam).”"

    Quran 2:138 “(Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah. And who can baptize better than Allah. And it is He Whom we worship.”

    Quran 2:43 “And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).”

    Quran 2:172 “O ye who believe! Eat of the good things that We have provided for you, and be grateful to Allah, if it is Him ye worship.”

  24. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    April 9th, 2007 at 7:31 am

    Hi Bro, missed you!

    Hassan said:

    How about taking manmade rules instead of God’s laws? Didn’t Allah SWT elaborated His laws in the Quran? And why are you following those manmade laws in the KUHP and UUD ’45?

    I was specifically talking about religious rules rather that day to day rules and laws for governing a civil society, but you are correct in a way as some of these laws do in fact infringe on religious practice, as they restrict religious freedom as given by Allah.

    And how would this verse fit into your pluralistic view?

    Quran 3:19 “Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.”

    Why should this verse present a problem, Islam which simply means ‘submission’ is what Allah has decreed for all believers since the start of time. This is clearly illustrated in the following verses:

    And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone. 2:41

    And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith. 2:89

    When it is said to them, “Believe in what Allah Hath sent down, “they say, “We believe in what was sent down to us:” yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: “Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?” 2:91

    Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah’s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,- 2:97

    And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know! 2:101

    It is He Who sent down to thee, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down The torah and The Injeel before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion. 3:3

    When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you. 3:81

    O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed confirming that which ye possess, before We destroy countenances so as to confound them, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers (of old time). The commandment of Allah is always executed. 4:47

    There are another 8 verses like this stating that Al Quran is a confirmation of what came before it, not a replacement.

    A Muslim is simply somebody who submits to Allahs will, not just somebody who follows Al Quran as you seem to beleive.

    You need to read the verse you quoted again, especially the highlighted section:

    “Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.” 3:19

    Instead of accepting that Allahs Scriptures are all one, you have fallen into the same trap as those before you, and have convinced yourself or been convinced that your way is the only way, you are showing opposition after knowledge has come to you!

    Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. 3:84

    The best Pluralism is Submission to God in whatever form he has given us.

    Peace

  25. avatar Oigal says:
    April 9th, 2007 at 10:50 am

    “Every religion has own silly ritual and dogma”

    Yes, some more than others but does it matter as long as they don’t bother anyone else.

  26. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:
    April 9th, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    “Every religion has own silly ritual and dogma”

    Yes..some more than others but does it matter as long as they don’t bother anyone else..

    Ouch Oigal, that was going to be my reply.

    To me, bowing toward Mecca is treacherous. I do not have trouble with Indonesian brand of Islam as long as it has Javanese influences. My parent was government rep and I have spent part of my life in Brunei. I have see how it destruct the Malay traditions branding century old tradition unislamic and erasing pre-islamic history in favour of Arabic texts. Just across South China Sea, articles written by a Dr. Farish Noor showed Malaysia is heading toward the same path with destruction of anything considered unislamic.

    We have to thank our lucky star that succeeding leaderships had been ethnic Javanese and that most pre-islamic sites and artifacts are in Javanese territories, otherwise they would have been destroyed long ago. Ethnic Javanese are known to be very proud of their heritage. I am one living example. :)

  27. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    April 9th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

    These rituals and dogma are not a part of Islam, they are just a distraction from it, unfortunately many people make the same mistake and mistakely beleive that Islam is what is currently practised by mainstream Muslims, nothing could be further from the truth. The same applies to The Christian practices as well, they are all a distraction from The Straight Path and cause divisions in society and cultures.

    Peace

  28. avatar Aluang anak Bayang says:
    April 9th, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    Mas Khafi, you are beginning to sound more and more like Buddha.

  29. avatar Sputjam says:
    April 10th, 2007 at 8:21 am

    I believe religion is not God’s message at all. God was against religion. Moses confronted Pharoah, who was the high priest of an Eqyptian religion. Jesus confronted the Jewish rabbis, who had corrupted the Torah and invented a Jewish religion. Mohamed confronted stone worshiping Arab pagans. Abraham confronted his own father and enquired what he was worshipping. There are no ritual worshipping instructions in the koran.

    Hassan says :-

    The traditional translation of the words are as follows :-

    Quran 2:133 “Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma’il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam).”"

    Quran 2:138 “(Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah. And who can baptize better than Allah. And it is He Whom we worship.”

    Quran 2:43 “And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).”

    Quran 2:172 “O ye who believe! Eat of the good things that We have provided for you, and be grateful to Allah, if it is Him ye worship.”

    The enlightened translation of the words are as follows :-

    2:133 You were not among those who witnessed Jacob at the presence of his death when he asked his children – “What will you serve after me’? They said, “We will serve your Lord and the Lord of your father Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac the only one God – and to Him we are at peace (Muslims)”.

    2:138 God’s policy . And who is better from God’s policy? And we are for Him among those who serve.

    2:43 And uphold your commitments and endow its purity – and humble yourselves together with those who are humble

    2:172 O you who believe, eat and drink (savour) from the good things what We have provided – and be thankful for God – if you truly for Him you are serving

    It is up to the reader to believe in which is the truth and which is false. May God guides those who seek the truth.

    But remember this. For those who believe in God, you will be judged by your deeds alone, not the number of times you worshipped.

    If anyone have a different opinion, and have proof that ritual worship carries weight in the next life, then reveal the details for us to discuss.

    No worship rituals in submission (islam) to God. Full stop.

  30. avatar Cukurungan says:
    April 10th, 2007 at 10:42 am

    Sputjam,

    It is mentioned in Quran that God said, He sent in one packet Quran and His messenger with His direct Guidance. So whatever prophet said and done, it was guarantee by God Him Self with His guidance.

    So that the only valid Quran interpretation and implementation is the daily live of prophet and sahabat beyond that are not acceptable. Details ritual worship is not explained in Quran but it was implemented by prophet with full witness of thousand sahabat.

    Our daily live is also ritual, more higher status of certain society or community will develop more complicated ritual.

    You can see how ritual drinking a tea in Japan and ritual dinner western society. If you are dog or cow those ritual aren’t required anymore just go ahead take food directly with your mouth or get sex to anyone you desired.

    thanks,

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