Militants

Mar 14th, 2007, in News, by

On dealing with militant Islamic preachers in Saudi Arabia, and Indonesia.

Maruf Amin, the head of the Fatwa Commission of the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), admits there are still a fair number of militant Islamic preachers and fanatics who preach the "war verses" from the Quran and encourage hatred of non-Muslims.

Maruf was speaking in Jakarta on the 9th in respect of statements made by the visiting Islamic Affairs minister of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Saleh bin Abdul Aziz bin Muhammad bin Ibrahim Al-Seikh. The Sheikh had said that in Saudi Arabia all preachers had to have a permit and those who were found to be overly fanatical were required to undergo re-education. Those who were incorrigible and whose zealotry couldn't be reined in were no longer permitted to preach, said the Sheikh, who is in Indonesia as part of the government's combating terrorism agenda.

Maruf Amin
Maruf Amin

Maruf said that in Indonesia there was no body authorised to deal with fanatical clerics and that those who practised hate-mongering could not be restrained, legally. The system as used by Saudi Arabia was not appropriate for Indonesia because Indonesia was a democracy and repressive measures were unacceptable. Instead the MUI would lead efforts to educate clerics properly and employ persuasive methods for those of a wild bent.

Maruf said there was no war in Indonesia now and the Quranic "war verses" were therefore essentially redundant. gatra


19 Comments on “Militants”

  1. avatar Dimp says:

    Finally more common sense. Hope that this will actually be implemented.

  2. avatar riccardo says:

    …in Indonesia there was no body authorised to deal with fanatical clerics and that those who practised hate-mongering could not be restrained, legally.

    However, they can put people in prison for praying in Bahasa Indonesia, or holding up a photo of the president with an X on it, or publishing a magazine with fully clothed women.

  3. avatar Robert says:

    I have seen people taking the law into their own hands, and that behaviour can not be restrained? What happened to the Indonesian Police?
    As long as the Indonesian Government and Police are condoning this behaviour, religious fanatics won’t care about Indonesian law and they just act as it suits them. It seems the Government is preferring a anarchy over a law-based state.

  4. avatar Colson says:

    The problem is real. The solution is bad.

    This is really a bad idea. There should be a distinct separation between religion and state. It’s not up to the state to appoint clerics. Or to check whether they are fit for the job. Unlike it’s the case in autocratic Saudi Arabia. I don’t think that dictatorship is an example that should be followed. In a democracy the clergy should behave within the limits of the law like any other citizen. And it’s up to the prosecutor to act when they break the law.

  5. avatar Madesh says:

    I am just wondering if we have government in Indonesia.

  6. avatar Odinius says:

    Unfortunately there is no real separation of church and state in Indonesia. Instead there are institutionalized churches/mosques/temples etc.

  7. avatar Naga says:

    Militant clerics are untouchable because they have the covert backing of the main Muslim political parties in Indonesia, and because the current govt is a coalition, they must turn a blind eye in order to maintain the coalition, so they can pass laws, etc, etc…

    To eradicate the clerics, then the govt has to offend these parties on which they rely on for political support; until there is a majority government in the parliament who doesn’t need to rely on minority parties, the clerics are untouchable and Indonesian society will continue to suffer …

  8. avatar Sputjam says:

    There are no priesthood/clerics in islam.
    The present islamic system goes against the messages in the koran.
    This is what God says in the koran concerning priest/clerics/monks.

    9:31 They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they set up.
    9:32 They want to extinguish God’s light with their mouths, but God refuses such and lets His light continue, even if the rejecters hate it.
    9:33 He is the One who sent His messenger with guidance and the system of truth, to make it expose all other systems, even if those who set up partners hate it.
    9:34 O you who believe, many of the Priests and Monks consume people’s money in falsehood, and they turn away from the path of God. And those who hoard gold and silver, and do not spend it in the cause of God, give them news of a painful retribution.
    9:35 On the Day when they will be seared in the fires of Hell, and their foreheads and sides and backs will be branded with it: “This is what you have hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you have hoarded!”

    The present confusion concerning islam can be attributed to these “experts”. They make laws that defies God’s laws in the koran. Come back to the true messages and study the koran. Ignore clerics for they will ultimately mislead you.

    Peace

  9. avatar Agusto says:

    I don’t see anything wrong with these militant islamic preachers! They are just doing what their allah is instructing them to do “cast fears to the infidels” until they surrender to allah islam! “Fight the kaffirs where ever you find them” its all in the koran! Global Shariah is the true Muslims’ goal and jihad is the ultimate way! It’s either dar al-islam or dar al-harb!

    Peace! (or jihad)

  10. avatar Sputjam says:

    fight? war?
    you mean this verse :-

    2:190 You shall fight in the path of God against those who fought against you – and there shall be no aggression. Indeed God – He dislikes those who are aggressive.
    2:191 And you shall confront them wherever you are confronted – and expel them from wherever they expel you – and trial is worse than fighting. And do not confront them by the sanctioned submission – unless they confront you in it. Therefore, when they confront you – you must confront them. That would be the just response for those who disbelieve.
    2:192 Thus – if they refrain – then, God is forgiver – merciful.
    2:193 And you must confront them until there is no more trial. And the orderly way of life is for God alone. Therefore if they refrain – thus there shall be no more hostility – except over those who are unjust.

    Peace!

  11. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Augusto,

    You’re exactly correct then “so what”. Do you want to surrender to Allah or pay me “uang preman”.
    The most interesting even company owned by hawkish moron like Halliburton has been moving their headquarters to Dubai (a state adopted sharia law) where there are many Arab moslem ready to kill them, why like that? It seemed nobody wants to buy your cheap merchant. What is wrong? You’re selling a fake stuff or you’re not a good salesman.

    thanks
    Dirty Moslem

  12. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Sputjam,

    I didn’t agree with you because:
    The present islamic system has been passed down from the prophet to the next generation without any broken link until today’s Islamic teaching.
    If you think otherwise could you tell me since when the islamic teaching was started to go off the track.

    Your argument is similar with the argument used by rich people who reject to donate their wealth to the poor. Because the rich said if God wished the poor having money, God could give the money directly to the poor, why God couldn’t do that while it said God can do anything.

    God give each human different levels of “God Given”, there are poor, rich, smart, dumb, beautiful, big, small, strong, weak etc.

    So there will be people interaction based on the respective God given. If your’e smart, you can use it either for cheating or teaching to the less smart one. It is up to you but don’t forget in the end you will be questioned by God.

    Unfortunately, there are not so many smart people like you, therefore it is not a sin to teach or give other less smart person knowledge including religious knowledge, this is exactly the same as the rich give to the poor.

    The good cleric doing good thinks because they are giving knowledge to the less knowledge one. Of course, we should not 100% trust them, we have to check their teaching against the quran.

    Thanks

  13. avatar aJ says:

    I agree there should be a organization which should educate fanatics.
    This is a better alternative then handing them to police after they are caught harming other people or themselves.

  14. avatar Agusto says:

    Sputjam,

    Are you using your own version of koran? You can fool the gullible but not me! You can go play taqiyya and white wash islam anyway you like but not with me! The verses you quote should be:

    002.190
    YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
    PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
    SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

    002.191
    YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
    PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
    SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

    002.192
    YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
    PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    002.193
    YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
    PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
    SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

    Do you know when these verses were revealed by moh? These verses were revealed when moh and his gang were facing their own quraishi brothers in mecca! Those brothers who kicked him out when moh was still weak in mecca, and you call it hijjrah! Now let us see what moh asked his gang to do to the non Muslims after he got stronger!

    009.123
    YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
    PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
    SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    003.151
    YUSUFALI: Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
    PICKTHAL: We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers.
    SHAKIR: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

    Anyway if you understand the rules of abrogation you won’t be talking about those earlier verses which have been abrogated by the later verses!

    Cukurungan,

    Well, at least you are honest and say what a good Muslim should do to the kuffar, just like what moh did, and you have to emulate him! As for that haliburton, what’s the big deal, it is just a business strategy! It won’t change anything about islam being nasty! I’m not asking you to believe me, you go check your koran for yourself! If you said what I quoted from the koran is cheap and fake stuff, tell me which one is that!

  15. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Augusto,

    I was not asking you to change your opinion about islam and your opinion about Islam doesn’t bother me at all. It is your called if you want to be our enemy. Now your turn I would glad to hear your reply for the below question:
    1) What is your recommendations to your fellow non- moslem in dealing with the moslem. Might kill moslem before moslem kill you or if not what else?
    2) What is your recommendations toward moslem, should we exchange our religion with a david coperfield dogma or should we surrender to Jesus.
    3) If we reject your recommendations what you are going to do. Are you members of NATO (no action talk only) or you will hang your self.

    We are looking forward for your prompt response.

    Regards,
    Dirty Moslem.

  16. avatar Sputjam says:

    Sputjam,

    I didn’t agree with you because:
    The present islamic system has been passed down from the prophet to the next generation without any broken link until today’s Islamic teaching.
    If you think otherwise could you tell me since when the islamic teaching was started to go off the track.

    Even during the time of prophet Mohamed, he was pressured by the pagans to change things here and there. If it had not been to God, who strengthered his soul, he would have succumbed. (It is all there in the koran, if you bother to study. I will post it if I can remember which verse it was.)

    Do not follow the religion of your ancestors blindly. That was the warnings in the koran. The koran is a complete guide, therefore do not add or subtract anything from it.

    There are several versions in the translation of the koran. Some may be true, and others false.
    But the message regarding the reward in the hereafter to those who believe and do good deeds is similar. How many preachers stress on this nowadays. Instead, imams stress on ritual worship, which is vague and ignore messages that are clear as day, such as righteousness.

    From 5 daily prayers, imams then inform us that prophet Mohamed used to pray all night long, and fast on every other day apart from ramadan. where did they get all these information? Definitely not from the koran, if it is not from the scriptures, then be wary and do not follow blindly.

    Remember, if Koran did not reveal any ritual worship, and you indulge in it, you would be at best, wasting your time and effort and at worse, punished for your stupidity in the next life.

    The good cleric does good things because they are giving knowledge to the less knowledgable one. Of course, we should not 100% trust them, we have to check their teaching against the quran.

    I have already given you the verse from the koran warning about the clerics somewhere at the top of this page.

    You can ignore that warning if you wish, for freedom of faith is enshrined in the koran (but not present day man made islam).

  17. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Naga said:

    and because the current govt is a coalition, they must turn a blind eye in order to maintain the coalition, so they can pass laws, etc, etc”¦

    Passing Laws? 😀 😀

    What makes you think that anybody in the government is interested in mundane work such as would benefit the people?

    Peace

  18. avatar Cukurungan says:

    Augusto,

    I agreed 100% with you that there is a clear instructions for the moslem in how to deal with all kinds of human including moslem enemies.

    Then the next question, who will be considered as moslem’s enemies and the answer of this question would mainly depend on your own perception toward moslem and what’s written in the quran and hadist.

    If you thought those islamic teaching is an evil and nasty teaching that is up-to you and our fellow good moslems (hasan, khafi and 1ndra) have been explaining in details all your concern.

    Then the next question, what’s your ammunition to challenge those nasty teaching, I didn’t think you have anything to contest the islamic teaching and what you can do only crying and bad feeling while seeing day by day the islam follower have been growing and growing and the very good man with name (Ismail, Augusto, Saipul and Rambutan) only doing nothing except selling the fxxxking
    sxxxt.

    peace or war (up-to you)
    Dirty Moslem

  19. avatar Sputjam says:

    Nobody has the authority from God to add or subtract anything that was in the koran, therefore if you follow the hadith, you are doomed.

    The enemies of present days Muslims is ignorance. Ignoring tha fact that they have become pagans. So before you declare your righteousness, you will have to correct this big sin. For God, he will not forgive pagan worshippers.

Comment on “Militants”.

RSS
RSS feed
Email

Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-18
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact