Mosques

Mar 20th, 2007, in News, by

The builders of mosques are urged to get permission.

Vice president Jusuf Kalla said on the 16th in Jakarta to a gathering of the National Mosques' Council that mosques need to have the permission of the local authorities.

Kalla said that in village and rural areas most mosques did not have their paperwork properly in order while in the cities most did. He said it was unfair to expect the houses of worship of other religions to have permission while mosques could be built without it. Even though nobody objected to the building of mosques, he said, formal authorisation should still be sought.

Kalla reckoned that there were about 70-80,000 mosques in Indonesia but because so many were not registered it was difficult to know the number for sure. tempo


57 Comments on “Mosques”

  1. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    All My Friend,

    The only one that can give permission for Mosque is Allaw S.A.W. Let us not blaspheme by confusing ‘what is caesar’s’ and what is Allah’s.

    Friend, that is what I think. I hope you are the Fresh One my Friend.

    Achmad.

  2. avatar Parvita says:

    About time! Besides permission, the government should also have regulations in building mosques, i.e. the radius from the surrounding mosques and the power of their loudspeaker!

  3. avatar Tomaculum says:

    I’m curious about the reactions of our moslem fellow citizen in this blog and in the rest of Indonesia.
    Wait for the next demonstrations against J. Kalla caused of this his statement.
    (BTW: that is the question I’ve ask many times, also in this blog!).

    A. Sudarsono,
    you’re right. And they’ve got the permission of Allah SAW to close the churchs and to burn down Christian schools, haven’t they??? And the permission to feel, that they are the one and only righteous in this world? 🙂

    And let us start a game:
    let us guess, in which area and respectively which church will be next burned down as the reaction of this (and maybe also the next chinese shops?).
    And the winner would get a free ticket to heaven?
    Maybe you can start, A. Sudarsono?

  4. avatar Dimp says:

    Will the FPI start sweeping these illegal mosques then? They seem to be so concern about churches and schools, even when they actually have permit.

  5. avatar Robert says:

    Dimp,

    Nothing will happen, the FPI is not in the business of destroying “own” properties even if they are illegal. They deal with churches and schools, even the legal ones. It will probably business as usual.
    Don’t expect closing down of mosques, only churches and schools, and now some demonstrations against Jusuf Kalla.

  6. avatar Andrew says:

    Let’s see how fair and just Indonesia is at the “operational” level.

  7. avatar Julita says:

    Let us not blaspheme by confusing ‘what is caesar’s’ and what is Allah’s.

    I recognize the above, very good indeed Mr. Sudarsono.

    Though don’t we just pick and choose using it as we wish. We can build but be kind, considerate and loving, not upsetting, disturbing other, that is God’s teaching, not what God wanted. Parvita says the radius from the surrounding mosques and the power of their loudspeaker! So it will be peaceful for all.

    What I am getting at is though, what is caesar’s’ and what is Allah’s.
    Human beings is Allah’s, who gives anybody the right to behead somebody, cut their nose, ears, or stone them to death. We would not unecessarily kill or harm an animal, they are God’s creation. So anybody who do the stoning, killing etc don’t ever say it is Allah’s doing or doing a favor for Allah. Do we think Allah is so weak and He needs our help??? Very nice excuse indeed

  8. avatar Yunir says:

    Hi Andrew,

    1. you are suggesting that there has been cases where temples or churches have been explicitly forced to apply for permits & other legal documentations. Wht were the consequences if they had not complied with the orders?

    2. Assume the govt were really ‘bias’. Why won’t anyone voice out their concerns?

  9. avatar Andrew says:

    Yunir,

    #1 – any house of worship of any religion not having legal permit should be treated the same way. I do not know what the law says about the legal consequences, but the key message is fair treatment across the board.

    #2 – my question back to you is, where have you been – how come you haven’t heard of them?

  10. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Andrew and Yunir,
    what about the temples in Bali? Which one was built with any permission? Should they all be closed? And are most of the mosques built within legality? Should they also be closed?
    I think it is not the solution. The solution is that the government have to show its colors. For an islamic country with islamic laws or for a secularity. And then they have to do what to do, with all of the consequences. Not like nowadays, it is a charade.
    No, the problem is not the permission, but the intolerance, isn’t it?? And you can forbide intolerance with any law. You have to “educate” this intolerant people (to whatever religion or believe they belong!).
    Let’s be honest.

    Add: let us wait, how much mosques will be closed. And how much mosques will be built with legal permission in the future.
    Let us wait.

  11. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Robert,

    I was just being sarcastic against the FPI, they seem to be so concerned with buildings without permit, let’s see what they have to say / do when the mosques without permit are being attacked.

  12. avatar Bas says:

    Mosques are a plea for this country. So much money wasted for nothing. I believe Indonesia is not a poor country only because of the coruption of its “elite” and the laziness of the people but also because so much money is used for the Hadj and for mosquees building.

    If only this money was used for more useful buildings such as hospitals or schools.

    So many Mosques are not only build without any permission but are also very ugly. Have you seen that horrible thing in Alun-Alun Bandung?

    Poor Indonesia.

  13. avatar Andrew says:

    Tom, I didn’t say they should all be closed. I think the discussion here applies to house of worships that were built after a certain period/year.

  14. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Bas
    If only this money was used for more useful buildings such as hospitals or schools.
    Education? What for? To advance the skill for corruption in the future?
    Health? To live longer in this fine world?
    Shouldn’t we better prepare for our entry into the heaven (or hell?)?? And which preparation is better then building more and more houses of worship? (God would notice the dedication of His followers, wouldn’t He?). 🙂 🙁

    Andrew,
    Even after a certain period there were many houses of worships built without permission. You don’t really believe (or just: hope), that a certain group would let their houses of worships be closed or even just let themselves be forced to request for any earthen permission?
    As A. Sudarsono wrote (modified): they’ve got the permission of their God.

  15. avatar Janma says:

    Closing down temples in bali that don’t have permits? That would be entertaining! Just imagine. Besakih temple has been there a good thousand years, maybe if they don’t get permit from the government, but world heritage will declare it a historical site.
    You think it would be hard to close down mosques without permits? Just try to close down balinese temples and see what happens! Whooo, would be civil war.

  16. avatar Tomaculum says:

    Janma,
    don’t worry, none of the illegally built mosques will be closed. Why? We know the answer. And they wouldn’t tear down any “illegally” built temple in Bali.
    They would rather force other “illegall” built houses of worships to close, because ……
    🙁
    That is the Indonesian government.

  17. avatar Sputjam says:

    As far as the real islamic deen (way/order/system) is concerned, there is no house of worship.
    You can reach out to God whereever you are.
    islam is not a religion. Read the koran. It was made simple for you to understand.

    Those that frequent mosques are merely wasting their time and effort, apart from irritating their communities with noisy sermons.

  18. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    All My Friend,

    Pak Tomalcum, on Church burning:

    Please stick to the facts, my Friend. There is no Church Burning. Some citizens felt angered by people establishing unregistered places of worship. Is it wrong if they want justice ? I don’t condone actions when citizens take the law into their own hands. But I can’t condemn people wanting justice if the law won’t give it to them.

    My Friend, that is why only Allah S.A.W. can give permission to build Churches. Only he knows what is the right one.

    Stay Fres…

    Achmad.

  19. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Ibu Julita,

    I hope from your writing that you are a good Moslem and not an immoral woman. I don’t like to waste my time.

    Friend (s), Ibu Parvita will surely feel the peace once she hears the Mosque. The key is that she needs to open her heart to the teachings of the Truth, of Allah, and of Islam. I notice that Parvita is not a Moslem name, but I hope she remains a member of the True Faith.

    Achmad.

  20. avatar Tomaculum says:

    A. Sudarsono,

    My Friend, that is why only Allah S.A.W. can give permission to build Churches. Only he knows what is the right one.

    And where can we find His bureau to send the permission request? 🙂

  21. avatar Andrew says:

    Oh, no – not A. Sudarsono again.

  22. avatar Robert says:

    Andrew,

    Oh yes, he is back, large as life. Ready to pull our legs again….

  23. avatar Julita says:

    Sudarsono:

    I hope from your writing that you are a good Moslem and not an immoral woman. I don’t like to waste my time.

    Sorry sir, if without realizing I have taken your precious time.
    To make things short, I am none of the above and it is not anybody’s business.

  24. avatar Yunir says:

    Hi, Andrew,

    I agree 100% and support the idea of objectivity. No bias should be allowed. All must be treated equal. No preference to any religion because Indonesia is a secular country, not an Islamic or Buddhist state.

    Yeh, you are right. Where have I been? I’ve been ignorantly sleeping in my cave for a century. So, can you please educate me by providing the evidence that can help support your claim? – that the government is being bias in terms of places of worships.

    I agree that government can be bias towards Islam in other areas.
    But when it comes to requiring permission for establishing places of worship, I don’t see any bias.

    Dear Sputjam,

    Mosques are central to the Islamic community. It provides a place for Muslims to congregate and unite as one community. Islam is not just about individual piety. It is also about living together with others.

  25. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Yunir,

    Mosques are central to the Islamic community. It provides a place for Muslims to congregate and unite as one community. Islam is not just about individual piety. It is also about living together with others.

    Now this is what I call ironic, if mosques are to be the central of the Islamic community, they why have they built so many mosques that people are confused to which one they have to go? And if moslems are to congregate and unite as one community why are they still fighting among the moslem community? And if Islam is about living together with others why does FPI still exist and oppress others in the name of Islam?

  26. avatar Parvita says:

    A. Sudarsono:

    check this link: http://www.Indonesiamatters.com/1103/mosque-loudspeaker-noise/
    We have discussed this earlier.

    There is no Church Burning.

    Do you read newspapers or watch TV?

    Ibu Parvita will surely feel the peace once she hears the Mosque. The key is that she needs to open her heart to the teachings of the Truth, of Allah, and of Islam. I notice that Parvita is not a Moslem name, but I hope she remains a member of the True Faith.

    Heheheh, this guy is awesome, don’t you all think. Whatever building it is, there has to be a permit and regulation. Period. That’s why there is Planology in ITB.

  27. avatar Yunir says:

    Hi Dimp,

    the argument I made about mosque is a response to Sputjam’s argument that Muslims don’t need mosques.

    I do not disagree that mosques can indeed be detrimental and I do not disagree with your points totally. Even during the Prophet’s (s.a.w) time, there have been mosques that were built for the purpose of distracting Muslims.
    And these mosques were ordered to be destroyed.

    There is also a hadith (could be a Qur’an verse) that tells Muslims to visit the mosque that is built out of genuine interest, and not to visit mosques that are detrimental to the community.

    Any problems raised because of mosques is the people itself. Not the principles of the religion.

  28. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Parvita, Julita and Others Yth,

    I am glad you agree that the Mesjid will give you the peace. But for Julita, I recommend you adopt a jilbab immediately, and preferable the kind they use in Saudi Arabia. This is a responsibility of a woman — otherwise men around her will be distracted.

    Parvita, we discuss this issue at the Salman Mosque in Bandung. Really the only ‘plan’ they need is all in the Quran. If it’s written by God how could it be less than perfect? As I said, there was no Churches, only unregistered places of worship, Friend. I don’t give permission, but I don’t forbid anarchic behaviour by the umat. Islam teaches us to be peaceful, Friend.

    Is Oke?

  29. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Yunir,

    That meant that not all mosques were built for the same purpose. So only some mosques actually provide a place for moslems to congregate and be as one. In this case shouldn’t we be more aware of the ‘mosques’ that were built without this purpose in mind. If there are ‘mosques’ that were built to distract moslems shouldn’t these ‘mosques’ be named, redirected so it can obey the same purpose as the other mosques?

  30. avatar Ihaknt says:

    All, in a topic weeks ago (unfortunately I can’t remember which one), A.S’ono already admitted that he was just being a di**head. So his comments are just jokes anyway. Very funny Ono hey you should be a comedian using the mosque speakers for your local RT.

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