Poso Jihad

January 17th, 2007, in News, by Patung

Police are focusing on the role of Muslim clerics in the continuing strife in Central Sulawesi.

Poso of late has again been the scene of some violence. Mobile Brigade and Densus 88 (anti-terror squad) police in Central Sulawesi on January 11th raided the home of one of 29 Islamic militants suspected of having carried attacks on Christians going back to 1998. Those in the home fought back with guns and crude bombs and one suspect, Dedi Parsan, was killed in the raid, as was an Islamic teacher, Ustad Rian, who was not on the wanted list. Four of the aforesaid 29 wanted men were arrested.

The four detained suspects were flown to the provincial capital, Palu, for questioning. One of them, Sarjono alias Paiman, has already admitted to making the bomb used to blow up the GOR Poso in 2004, in cooperation with Taufik Bulaga alias Upik Lawanga, as well as having handed the detonator used at a bombing in Tentena in 2005 to Taufik. [1]

Rifles, ammunition, 4 kg of calcium chlorate, and seven home-made bombs [2], were confiscated after the raid. The raided home was in the Gebang Rejo, Tanah Runtuh area, long the scene of street protests, and battles with police, by Muslim residents, many of whom are immigrants from Java. (Poso Violence, 1st October 2006 & Tanah Runtuh Marches 31st October 2006).

Local police chief Brigadier General Badrodin Haiti said officials had many times tried to resolve disputes through dialogue with local Islamic leaders in the area, but with no success.

We had to take this action in order to uphold the law. I would like to express my thanks for the support of several Islamic clerics who have helped the police.

After the funeral of Ustad Rian, as mourners made their way home, a policeman, Dedi Irawan, was attacked and killed. Nobody has yet been arrested over this. [3]

On the 16th Syamsir Siregar, the head of the state intelligence bureau, Badan Intelejen Negara (BIN), said that the police raid on the home was an attempt to arrest members of the Jemaah Islamyah (JI) and those who had fought in Afghanistan. [4]

On the 17th Brigadier General Anton Bachrul Alam in Jakarta said that there were indications that a number of Javanese Muslim clerics were teaching their followers that it was legitimate to wage holy war, or jihad, against non-Muslims in and around Poso. He said that the clerics appear to believe that non-Muslims are planning attacks on the faithful in Poso. Anton said:

Their (the men arrested) motive is to get revenge and to wage jihad in accordance with the doctrines taught by their teachers from Java.
(Motif mereka melakukan hal tersebut adalah untuk balas dendam dan jihad sesuai doktrin yang diajarkan oleh guru-guru dari Jawa.)

He named the clerics, who are all from Central Java province [5], as Munzip, Yasin, Rian (killed), Yahya, and Afif. All of the men are said to be connected with Islamic schools on Java. Munzip, Yasin, Yahya, and Afif are currently being hunted by police, he said. [1]

He added that those arrested in the raid on the 11th had planned to use their homemade bombs in an attack on a sports complex in nearby Tentena, a mainly Christian town. [2]

Meanwhile on the morning of the 17th the sound of a bomb going off, as well as gunfire, was heard coming from the main town market. No-one has been reported as hurt. Police have issued a shoot on sight order for anyone seen to be carrying a weapon. [8]

  1. ↑1 ↑6 mediaindo
  2. ↑2 ↑7 vhr
  3. ↑3 spcm
  4. ↑4 indosiar
  5. ↑5 antara
  6. ↑8 l6

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58 Comments on “Poso Jihad”

  1. Ismail Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 12:56 am

    I guess this clerics misunderstood the “lofty teachings and ideals of islam”, just as the increasing number of blood thirsty Muslims, oh sorry I mean Muslim terrorist or should I say confused brain zapped “moderate” islamist (29 islamic militant). heheheheh!!

    Just waiting for the moderates hear to start calling me names and tell me i lied and that I have no understanding of this “out of the world concept” called islam. Won’t it be just a crack-up!

    Can’t blame them really, they have the loft sublime morals of the “prophet” to guide them or I guess I am mistaken again.

  2. Tomaculum Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 2:43 am

    Ismail is back again! The same old Ismail with the same old platitudes!
    Hi, Ismail, missed you very much, you naughty boy!! Deepened your knowledge about those bad, bad Islam and those very, very evil Moslems?
    :)

  3. Bin Camel Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 3:18 am

    I stumbled in one comment of a stupid newspaper:

    Quote:

    Anda butuh modal untuk jihad atau pengembangan Islam? Saya siap memberikan pinjaman tanpa bunga hingga 200 milyar, info lanjut hub Pesantren Baasyir di 085217982587/sms.

  4. Ismail Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 4:04 am

    Tomaculum, you sound like you missed me, hehehehe, I did not go anywhere, just felt I had said enough on the other post so I just read the stuff you guys post.

    It’s interesting really what you moderate will say, by the way did you guys see the report on the UK channel 4 on the so called “moderate” I say its quite a revelation. Please if you have a desire to face the truth please check the link http://www.channel4.com/news/dispatches/article.jsp?id=1066, by the way this channel usually support islam with useless mantra “islam is a religion of peace” and there PC crap.

  5. Tomaculum Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 4:36 am

    Ismail,
    I don’t need to watch any channel of UK or Al Jazeera or anything else. The truth you mean is the truth you want to see and it is just one of the many, many aspects of the “truth”.
    My truth is to wish freedom in this world and this can not be reached by hatred.
    Btw: how can you be sure, that that is the truth? Have checked it by yourself?
    You just see something as a truth if it is suitable to your well known opinion, don’t you?

    useless mantra “islam is a religion of peace” and there PC crap.

    And your mantra?

    “I hate Islam, I hate Moslem. Islam is evil, Islam is bad. I’m the only one who knows the truth.”

    :)

  6. Ismail Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 5:29 am

    Tomaculum, come off it, that is rather below the belt, I have never said I hate a person and you know it, well I guess you have islam on you mind, and I guess I agree with you in a way about your take on truth. I never said I know the truth, I could not tell it even if it was sitting on my nose, but then someone shared Jesus with me and he Jesus says I am the way, the truth and the life and I believed him and my life changed and he became my truth.
    Then he said “you shall know the truth the truth with set you free”.

    Jesus is truth to me now.

    Please try and take me by my word, don’t say I am what I have not claimed. I agree I said I hate islam but never said I hate a Muslim person, yes I agree islam is mind twisting, it makes Muslims do kind of evil things. So for me the ideology is the problem. Muslims are victims too.

  7. Ihaknt Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 5:35 am

    Ismail, I would love to put you in the same room as Hassan. that would be interesting. Welcome back by the way.

    You are not doing anyone any good. Yes we know some Muslims are the victims too. Yes we all get the message that you disagree with the ideology, but you are not helping by saying all the bad things and deepening the wound that’s already there. All right, if you think that your belief is ranked supreme then get on with it. Leave these stupid jihadist to blow themselves up and all you have to do is just to sit back and watch it happen on tv and say “see, i knew it, i told you so”. Would that make you happy?

  8. Dimp Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 5:44 am

    Hi Ismail,

    islam is mind twisting, it makes Muslims do kind of evil things.

    Can you please explain how there are Christians that do evil things then? Does this also make Christianity “mind twisting”? How about Buddhists who do evil things?

  9. Ismail Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 6:09 am

    Ihaknt, I am replying because I feel your comment were heart felt and I don’t feel the usually weighty words, first I am sorry, I really do not mean to cause any il feeling and I really would just want to get along with everyone. But I have seen the effect of appeasing islamic mindset, it doesn’twork.

    Just don’t get offended please take look at a UK channel 4 documentry. This a station that is usually pro-islam. http://www.channel4.com/news/dispatches/article.jsp?id=1066 Perhaps with will give you a sense of where I am coming from. The so called nice and moderate Muslims a saying the most vile things in the mosqus and come out in public to say the most dandy things about the “religion on peace”(taqqiya).

    The video are posted all over the internet I can provide a link if you care.

    It’s a begining of a trip, if you care to call a spade a spade.

    I guess you think Osama does not represent the main stream islam what if you are wrong, Muslim brotherhood is gaining power rapidly in Egypt, they are being voted by moderates. Islamist are taking over all over the Muslim and believe me it will in Indonesia, perhaps because they are true to text.

    Like I said sir, I would to just get along, but I’m afraid, Islam will destroy the world if we simply fold our hands and be nice, sweet, saying the coolest politically correct things. Rather let me say it as I see and let me be shown to be wrong.

    Finally sir, all my positions about islam and its prophet have been well researched and I used only authentic source.

    ________________

    Dimp, can you give an example of one this Christians doing this great evil in Jesus’s name and shouting God is great in english or Arabic while killing innocent people.

    Let make it a number of examples, perhaps while commiting the act they where even quoting the scriptures=bible in the process.

    ________________

    Let me help a bit please read the verses below if you care to know, it helps you define properly who a Christian is and who is not, but the beauty here is that if you are on the wrong side Christ can still make a difference in your life: this part of the bible that Muslim scholars will never tell you exist.

    Galatians 5:19 - The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

    Jesus said that many will come to him on the day of judgement and he will tell depart from him because they are workers of iniquity (sin and evil).

  10. Cukurungan Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 7:43 am

    Dear Ismail,

    Frankly I missed you so much especially with your nice word about Islam and Moslem because in the reality live I never meet a Christian with attitude as yours and dare to deliver word as yours. Therefore, I was surprising when I found such nice word about Islam in this BLOG”¦. again many thanks Ismail your word was so inspired, enlightened and strengthened me about the truth of my belief.
    All the real attitude and deep in the mind of un-believer was written in our Holy Book is exactly proven by your opinion and attitude toward Islam.

    I am a Moslem but I make living joint with my Christian friend and even my house is sharing wall with 2 Chinese Christian neighbor and my relationship with them always in good shape. God many thank for Your given beautiful life to me. In every Sunday and Saturday evening I always go to mosque with my little Kid and I always see a same good scene there several little nice Chinese girl playing in the street while their mother clean up the street and take care the garden along the street where I walk to the mosque.

    Initially, I did not know why most Christian I meet in the real live so nice to me and they live peacefully with their Moslem neighbor. I just realize it after read comment Ismail about Islam and Moslem in this blog, they might be afraid with me and my Moslem brother so much and in their mind We Moslem will beheaded them if they are not nice to us.

    I am now just realiazing that a “good Moslem” according to un-believer is a “dead Moslem” hi hihi hi.

    Regards,
    Cukurungan

  11. Ihaknt Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 8:13 am

    Ismail, you are too naive. The TV channel showed that to show you both angles. So you can see things from different angles. Any cults, religions, believes, there are always bad and good followers. Dont be so naive, you think that there’s no bad Catholics, Christians, etc? Take off your blinkers and broaden your horizon. You’re now obssesed with this bad Islam, that you dedicate a huge chunk of your time to do research for it. Selective hearing, sight, reading. as for me, I have a job, I have a life, so i wont waste my time researching for BS, and trying to counter your negative words. I just keep my eyes open and self-filter the information.

  12. Dimp Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 8:44 am

    Hey Ismail,

    I am starting to give up debating with you, what my point is just because there are some bad seeds in one religion does not make the whole religion bad, just because there are terrorists acting in the name of Islam does not make every follower of Islam a terrorist.

    The same way when the crusaders were rampaging through Latin America, judging everyone who were not the “Jesus followers” to be sinners (I have been there myself, and I have seen proves so please don’t argue that this does not exist), does not mean that the whole of Christianity is bad.

  13. Miss Indo 07 Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 8:46 am

    Cukurungan,it’s so nice to hear abt ur relationship with ur neighbor,,
    sometimes i think isnt it so beautiful if everyone can think like a kid,,
    when we didnt know about difference,,
    i remember when i was in elementary school i never know that i’m an Indonesian chinese,,n the others r not,,hehe,,
    n even until know,,my best friends are a javanese n bataknese,,
    well of course i have more chinese friends bcoz of my environment,,but i studied in a public uni,,n i found my sincere friends there,,
    Of course there are also some “friends” who hate me bcoz i’m chinese,,but not much,,n i just can ignore them,,who cares?
    It’s just sad if people our age (how old r we anyway? hehe) still think like a racist (eventhough it sounds like our government can do nothing sbt it,,even they do it themselves!),,
    And Cukurungan,,pls dont let 1 person like Ismail change ur friendship with ur neighbours n let u think that way,,
    Ismail,,trust me,,Jesus never teach u to say bad things abt islam,,

  14. Tomaculum Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    Ismail,
    instead of citating books you maybe should look around and take a deep breath of fresh air and then look inside of the deepest parts of your heart.
    :)

  15. Ihaknt Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    Hi Tom, maybe he no longer has a heart.

  16. Cukurungan Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    Dear Miss Indo,

    Are you lady or just your nickname? …hemhem my hearts is start beating because I am man with strong desire for poligamy but my wive pray to God every day so that my earning just only enough for one wives hi hihi

    Don’t worry I will not change my friendship with my Christian friend because God also said in the qur’an holy Book that there is some good people among Ahli kitab who don’t have arrogant in their mind.

    regard,
    Cukurungan

  17. 1ndra Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    can you give an example of one this Christians doing this great evil in Jesus’s name and shouting God is great in english or Arabic while killing innocent people.

    Do killing by mouth count?
    Mouth killing is much much worse than hand killing.

    And we knew someone already. :)

    ____________

    Thanks Ismail, we should not let someone/people with that attitude killing the good innocent relationship between Christian and Muslim.

    Whatever his/their religion is.

  18. Dimp Says:
    January 18th, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Hi Indra,

    Thanks Ismail, we should not let someone/people with that attitude killing the good innocent relationship between Christian and Muslim.

    Agree with you, and should applies for any relationship between any religions.

  19. sgn Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 12:14 am

    Ismail,

    I would like to share with you the following:

    Eph 4:29
    You must let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but only what is beneficial for the building up of the one in need, that it may give grace to those who hear.

    Col 3:8
    But now, put off all such things s anger, rage, malice, slander, abusive language from your mouth.

    Hope these help.

    /sgn

  20. Ismail Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 5:15 am

    Sgn, thank you, but frankly, I have never abused/insulted anyone and I will not, saying what I see is not abuse or insult, what I say about islam is precisely what it is. Just as Nazis and hitlar are precisely what they are.

    Cukurungan, I can see you are nice guy, a nice person, it has nothing to do with islam and it’s that simple. You really don’t have islam on your mind.
    Because mohammed said let the kafir/infidel (that includes all non-Muslim) find “harshness in you” if you are as nice as you seem, it can only mean you are a Muslim-for-identification-only, you really don’t have islam on you mind. Please forgive me I mean no insult.

    Cukurungan, the same al-Quran tells you not to take Christians as friends, please tell me I am wrong, you are just a nice guy and islam can’t take credit for that. Please don’t change or should I say stay away from the madrassa.

    If you see/meet a nice Christian it means he his simply taking Christ at his word-love, same can’t be said of mohammed, he instruct on death more than life.
    I can name an ending number Christian charity and I can name equal number of Muslim terrorist, think about it, that is the truth, it’s a product of who you follow.

    1ndra, no matter how much you want to tag me, I will simply tell you, that I mean no harm, but hard questions must be asked. Being good can be a human experience and being bad can be a product of an ideology.

    Dimp, I love to debate you, but feel free to ignore me, I am just one person, by the way Christian are the ones that follow the words and deed of Christ or at least striving to constantly, crusader can’t can’t find justification from the words of Christ.

    MISS INDO, Jesus would have stood against mohammed like he did the pharises and the saduceses, because after learning about him, I had had to stay away.

    Ihaknt, you now seem to think I have no heart because I see things differently, I said it before, you probably say this things because you have islam on your mind.

    Guys do have a lovely day, please you can ignore me or correct me with facts, don’t give me examples of good Muslim as mush you reject my example of bad Muslim, what does the al-Quran and the sahih hadit teach, that I think is what’s important.

    _____________

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244561,00.html for you comment please.

  21. Ihaknt Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 5:39 am

    Ismail, me having Islam in my mind doesnt have anything to do with me disliking you. Dimp for one, is a devout Christian. A good one I can say as he doesn’t spread negative words against any religion.

    Although I must say Ismail, now that the ONO team is on board, I start liking you and Hassan. :D

  22. Dimp Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 5:40 am

    Hi Ismail,

    It is clearly shown that you only select what you want to hear or read, it is kinda hopeless arguing with you. You already made up your mind from the beginning and you only bashing Islam here, you clearly do not follow the teaching of Christianity as you are full of hatred.

    I feel sorry for you, as you said you are just one man, I just hope that others don’t share the same opinion as you.

  23. Ihaknt Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 5:52 am

    Ismail, what do you have to say to those who argue with you and basing their argument on the Bible? You don’t seriously think that they also have Islam in their mind?

  24. Ismail Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 7:32 am

    Dimp, please feel free to ignore me, I guess you are smarter and you fully understand that islam is all wonderful and it a gift to the world! I think not, quite the opposite, please ignore me its ok, don’t bother announcing it just do it, Hassan did it, I think he his doing just fine.

    I don’t hate, I guess you simply don’t know what hate means and you just tata the word. Christianity teaches us to say the truth even if your like will call me names. It’s ok.
    For everyone who cares to know hating an ideology like Nasizism or islam is not the same as hate another person. Full of hatred where did you get that from, wow, the sad is on you.

    You will find out that I am right all the while, I guess you just need time. Islam on your mind=mind-block.

    Ihaknt, Christianity is liberty, we argue, disagree and mis-understand ourselves but that is part of the liberty or may I say freedom of speech and thought. This things are not islamic and can never be or you risk a fatwa!

    You guys just love to the hate-word on me, I guess it makes you feel superior, all-accomodating and nicer than me, I guess you win the medal because well, keep up the good work.

    Ihaknt, you said Dimp is a Christian, he must one of those Christians who thinks islam is just all good and cool and mohammed is a prophet and perhaps buying the crap that Jesus is just a man, maybe less important than mohammed. Well yes they call hitler a Christian and stalin too, I have meet the type. Oh they probably believe the bible isn’t all that. I have meet them those types of Christians. If I am wrong my apology.

  25. Ihaknt Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 7:40 am

    Bla bla bla, talk to the hand, because we have been writing to a brick wall.

  26. Dimp Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 7:40 am

    Hi Ismail,

    You can assume all you want, ok to make things simple let me ask you these questions.

    1. Where do you live?
    2. Are you surrounded by Moslems?
    3. What are you doing about this, are you “truthfully” announcing that the teaching of Islam is bad to these Moslems?

    And we’ll see if this argument will go to the next level.

  27. Peter Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 9:23 am

    Indonesia could learn some lessons from Morocco in dealing with what its clerics are telling people. In Morocco, the Prince has basically nationalized the system of Imam certification. No one can be an Imam in Morocco without going through the government’s training school. The Prince also let women become Imams and run masjids. This system insures that no nonsense will be preached anywhere in Morocco that could undermine the stability of the country.

    I think its also about time that our sisters became more empowered in Islam. If Al-Quran says that women are weaker and not as good as men, then I have no problem rejecting that verse, or the whole surah Al-Nisa for that matter. I don’t believe that the “most gracious” and “most merciful” God would ever say something so ridiculous. Think about this…Every other sentence in the Quran includes “Al-Rahman, Al’Rahim”. Now imagine the most loving, merciful person you can (let’s say, Mother Theresa, for example). The phrases above tell us that Allah must be even more loving and merciful than her. Now think deeply for a moment about what this means.

    Just my thoughts… Not trying to offend anybody.

  28. Dimp Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 10:05 am

    Hi Peter,

    Good points, I just hope that these improvements are being considered. I sure hope that there are people who have “pure” heart and true intelligence in our government who can actually make change for the good.

    Unfortunately judging from the quality of our “representatives” in the parliament who are still fighting for “mostly” money, then we can only dream.

  29. Andrew Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 10:28 am

    Ismail, I think (and I hope I’m right) this doesn’t represent Islam in general. Knowing quite a number of Muslims, including some best friends of mine, it is just impossible to imagine they belong to the same league with this guy on your link.

  30. Hassan Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    Ihaknt: You said,

    “Ismail, I would love to put you in the same room as Hassan”

    That would be an interesting Muslim fundamentalist vs Christian fundamentalist thing, huh? :D But seriously, i would like to clarify several things: First, while my views are a traditional islamic one, that doesn’t mean i’m a fundamentalist. I never preached about hatred or advocated about slaying infidels. Heck i don’t even use turbans or the sorts, and have never attended a pesantren. :)

    Secondly, I never preached hatred towards another religion and then plead my innocence (”i don’t have a single bit of hate in me”).

    Third, if indeed I was placed in the same room with Ismail, well I’d probably.. be silent. Because I had learned that the best medication for Ismail’s condition is to ignore him. It doesn’t matter what we say to him, he would reply it with the same placations and rantings. I found it useless arguing with a child when all she wanted is a candy, figuratively speaking. Either we give them what they want, or we ignore them.

    And yes Ismail, “i have islam on my mind” and you have Christianity in yours. The difference is the islam in my mind didn’t tell me to insult other religions and their followers. But the ‘Christianity in your mind’ (not Christianity as a religion, folks!) seemed to be telling you that insults are the best thing to do as a religious person.

    If all of your religious studies resulted in that ‘revelation’, then good luck to you, “sir”.

  31. Cukurungan Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 10:30 pm

    Hassan Says:

    The difference is the islam in my mind didn’t tell me to insult other religions and their followers. But the ‘Christianity in your mind’ (not Christianity as a religion, folks!) seemed to be telling you that insults are the best thing to do as a religious person.

    I think this is only a matters angle of views when we look to a star constelation from different location. As Ismail said their word didn’t intended to insult any religion or hated other beliefs but because he care about other beliefs as Jesus did care to all human being. What it doesn’t means “care” for Ismail? Care is equal to insult other beliefs, hihihi.

  32. Hassan Says:
    January 19th, 2007 at 11:23 pm

    Yeah, I wondered in what way did express his “care” for his children or parents. :D

  33. Miss Indo 07 Says:
    January 20th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Cukurungan,,u asked me whether i’m a lady or just my nick?
    I’m a girl actually,,

    Ismail,,whatever u think abt Islam,,just 1 thing,,BEHAVE!!!!
    I’m a Catholic n i’m ashamed to know that we follow the same God,,
    I’m not a good cath maybe,,i have sins n mistakes,,but i know Jesus never teach me to do what u do,,k??
    Even Hassan didn’t do what u do,,

    Tamara Blessinzky is a mualaf,,n once she said that Islam is better than Christianity,,that the content of AlQuran is better than the Bible,,
    Do u feel happy to hear that? no,,right? So pls don’t do the same thing,,
    Oyah,,i’ve seen a book written by an ex-nun who became a mualaf,,
    the title is @becareful of Christianisation in Christianity@
    N frankly speaking,,i was quite shocked to see that kind of book is allowed to be sold in as calibre bookstore as TGA,,
    so Ismail,,don’t let ppl believe that the content of the book is correct just becos of ppl like u,,
    Peace everyone,,hmm,,btw this is 2007 anyway,,must change my nick i guess,,since the real miss Indo 2007 will come hehehe,,

  34. sgn Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 12:24 am

    Miss Indo 07 Says:

    January 20th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Tamara Blessinzky is a mualaf,,n once she said that Islam is better than Christianity,,that the content of AlQuran is better than the Bible,,
    Do u feel happy to hear that? no,,right? So pls don’t do the same thing,,

    Miss Indo 07, who is Tamara? Oh…. oh… the woman has just divorced.
    I think, her comment about her new religion was normal. Otherwise, she would be seen stupid (sorry for this word) changing to a bad religion. And, she could say that in public because her new religion is the majority in her country.

    And …. how is about Nafa Urbach? She said: “.. menjadi pengikut Kristus hal yang terindah dalam diri saya”. In another word, she said … better than menjadi pengikut Muhammad.

    Once again, I think both comments are normal, aren’t they?

    [But this is not a kind of supporting Ismail's strong view]

  35. Ismail Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 5:48 am

    sgn, please make sure you stay likeable, one way to do that is not to associate with me, that was a good move, I commend you depth.

    Miss Indo 07, wow, my only offence is to say precisely what I believe islam is and what it’s capable of doing, and all you can say to me his BEHAVE! I see you really do believe islam is a “religion of peace”. If you still believe that you are still under it spell and I pray you wake-up. Love Muslims by all means but islam is satanic.

    Satan is the father of lies, the Quran and Muhammed rejected everything of Christ, twisted stories of the prophet and the patriach of faith. Rejected the fundamental understanding of our God. I wish this strange god of islam takes it own identity and didn’t have to build itself on the image of the characters of the bible for validity, yet rejecting their essential message and meaning. I therefore reject the message of islam and I deem it erroneous, incorrect, misleading. It was carefully crafted to decieve and its succeding.

    Cukurungan, I didn’t get your comment, but I still think you’re nice and unislamic, hahahh. I really don’t care what is Hassan said or meant, I have been consistent on my view of islam and Hassan need to know that the very message called islam is an insult to Christianity, cause not only did the Quran reject the bible accounts, it crafted its own version and ridicle us Christians for not believe its mumble-jumble non-sense.

    Andrew, please be sure about it. Muslims can be lovely people as long they are nominal and “don’t have islam on there mind” and are not vast in the ways of Muhammed, but once they cross that line, its a different ball. I have Muslims as friend and they my staff in my engineering practice but I am constantly shocked at how little Muslims know about there religion and when I talk to them its quite an experience, just ask them what they say five times a day!

  36. sgn Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 8:20 am

    Ismail,

    My knowledge in Islam is enough, not only because I grew up in Muslim community but I read quite number of books related to Islam (including Qur’an). More or less, I understand what you said.

    However, I still believe that sharing the real meaning of “LOVE” is still more helpful for an open discussion like in this forum. But, of course, you have your own way to pass your message with all consequences you may face (God bless you).

    /sgn

  37. Ihaknt Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 8:27 am

    Hassan, I never said you were a fundamentalist. Just would like to see the heated debate. :D I will cook and make sure nothing sharp is in sight! MK can be the referee.

  38. Ihaknt Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 8:51 am

    Hi sgn, thanks for the blessing. I am keeping it, I may change it, but when I do it will be by at my own will, not others. I dont give in to peer pressure, but I really like your idea :D. It’s definitely in my possible-nik list. Thanks.

  39. sgn Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 9:04 am

    OK, then I will address you IHnAKnT.
    Have a nice Sunday.

  40. 1ndra Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    Ihaknt : It’s a looong nick name. :)

    Miss Indo 07 : Be Miss Indo 08, and be that one in reality, our new celeb. :)

    Ismail :

    Muslims can be lovely people as long they are nominal and “don’t have islam on there mind” and are not vast in the ways of Muhammed, but once they cross that line, its a different ball.

    And you can do that too…be nominal and lovely.
    Well, I hope this isnt the next mission impossible. :)

  41. Ismail Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    1ndra, I guess you must have missed out something I said, look closely I had a bit to say about islam and its “prophet”.

    You don’t have to believe but its worth saying, I love Muslim people and I am just sad seeing what islam is doing to them, they are as much of victim of islam, imagine some blowing themselves up and loving it. Like most Muslims doctrine trying to justify the unimaginable, it’s a bit hard to concieve. It’s same with a prophet of 54 years “prophet” sleeping with a 9year old and Muslims justify it rather nicely.

    It’s not the person really it’s the idealogy that twist there mind. Islam on there mind=mind-block.

    Sgn, please sir I am sorry for sounding incorrigible, but telling the truth don’t mean hate, it’s come down to my intentions, I do not hate anyone, infact I realise that we have say it as it is. I love God too mush to live in hate of a person, but islam will destroy the world except we come to terms with it. In fact one of my staff members is a Muslim. It’s not the Muslim its islam that is the problem, when you see a demon possessed man, you have to feel for the person not the demon. It’s the same with islam.

    Let me give you an example: the sunni and shiite are sect of “the religion of peace”, they went to saudi Arabia to sign a peace document and says its wrong to shed Muslim blood, please not that it’s says Muslim blood and not human blood, but did it stop NO SIR! It became the worst month, this is several month ago because they have “islam on there mind” the only people that kill invoking the name of there god and his word.

    MUSLIMS should see this strange god for what it is!

    Jesus says love and forgive 7 by 70 times and love your enemy and do good to all men, this the message they need, not some nice acceptance of the self defence non-sense.

  42. Cukurungan Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    Ismail Says:

    Jesus says love and forgive 7by 70 times and love your enemy and do good to all men, this the massage they need, not some nice acceptance of the self defence non-sense.

    Could you please tell me how those above nice words translated in the Rwanda conflict where millions Christians tutsi and Christian huttu slaughtered each other and sometime it was took place in their church.

    Regards,
    provokator no.1

  43. Hassan Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    Ismail, i don’t hate Christianity either or any other religion for that matter. But if i went inside a church, synagogue, or vihara to say that i don’t hate the audience but i hated their religion, then start insulting the god they worshiped, their saints, and their holy scriptures etc, dude i don’t know about you but i will run for my life after that. The followers of those respective religions WILL try to seriously hurt me.

    Now Ismail, which part of that example is too hard for you to understand? The followers will consider the act of hating their respective religions as an act of hate and hostilities towards THEMSELVES. Get that? Did you see the flaw of your current logic of differentiating between the followers and their religion?

    “the very message called Islam is an insult to Christianity, cause not only did the Quran reject the bible accounts, it crafted its own version”

    The bible also rejected the Quranic accounts, does that means Christianity is an insult to Islam? Shall that make Muslims and Christians felt insulted by each other? You sure are one sided an only using your own point of view and you seemed to fail to learn about something called ‘empathy’ as you grew up. Or did you ever grow up at all, Ismail?

    Sheesh, why did i waste my time on you. Talking to you is like talking to an answering machine: always saying the same ol’ thing, over and over and over again.

  44. sgn Says:
    January 21st, 2007 at 11:17 pm

    Cukurungan Says:

    January 21st, 2007 at 4:24 pm

    … the Rwanda conflict where millions Christians tutsi and Christian huttu slaughtered each other and sometime it was took place in their church.

    Hi Cukurungan,

    Below I quoted what WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide) wrote:

    The killing swiftly spread from Kigali to all corners of the country. Between April 6 and mid-July, a genocide that is estimated to have left between 800,000 and 1,071,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus dead at the hands of organized bands of militias, as reported by Helen Vesperini: James Smith of Aegis Trust, a British NGO dedicated to the prevention of genocide, says finding an exact number is not the point: “What’s important to remember is that there was a genocide. There was an attempt to eliminate Tutsis “” men, women, and children “” and to erase any memory of their existence.”

    One such massacre occurred at Nyarubuye. Ordinary citizens were called on by local officials and government-sponsored radio to kill their neighbors and those who refused to kill were often killed themselves. “Either you took part in the massacres or you were massacred yourself,” said one Hutu, rationalizing an ambivalent mixture of regret, fear, and shame at being forced to kill Tutsis.

    Most of the victims were killed in their villages or in towns, often by their neighbors and fellow villagers. The militia members mostly killed their victims by chopping them up with machetes, although some army units used rifles. The victims were often hiding in churches and school buildings, where Hutu extremist gangs massacred them. On 12 April 1994, more than 1,500 Tutsis sought refuge in a Catholic church in Kivumu. Local Interahamwe then used bulldozers to knock down the church building. People who tried to escape were hacked down with machetes or shot. Local priest Athanase Seromba was later found guilty of aiding and abeting demolition of the Church and convicted of crime of genocide and crimes against humanity.

    Even though both are Christians, that was conflict between two races.

    Gitera Rwamuhuzi is one of those who took part in the genocide, said ” .. It was as if we were taken over by Satan. We were taken over by Satan. When Satan is using you, you lose your mind. We were not ourselves. Beginning with me, I don’t think I was normal”.

    After all, it was still a sad in the Christianity history and the humanity. Hope this never happens again.

    /sgn

  45. Miss Indo 07 Says:
    January 22nd, 2007 at 9:14 am

    1ndra said:

    “Be Miss Indo 08, and be that one in reality, our new celeb.”

    –> Why should I wait? I can be the real miss indo 007, hueheu, but I’m afraid the FPI will blame me if I must wear my swimsuit. :p *sigh* 1ndra, you know it’s so hard to be sexy in our lovely country.

    Hassan, I agree with you. :)
    No point talking *typing* to Ismail, he won’t understand.

  46. Naga Says:
    January 22nd, 2007 at 10:17 am

    Lol, good to see a healthy debate about mythology.

  47. Cukurungan Says:
    January 22nd, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    Miss Indo 07,

    I do not think that by wearing a swimsuit will make you look sexier. Let we learn from “RATU” and “INUL” case. So far I know there was no complaint from FPI or other Moslem hardline group about “RATU” on the stage. Is Ratu on stage less sexier than “Inul on stage”? I do not think so but why so many complaint about “INUL” but none about “RATU”. I think you know the answer better than me.

    regards,
    Woman Lover.

  48. sgn Says:
    January 22nd, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    Is that because RATU prettier than INUL, so FPI or other Moslem hardline group still want to see RATU on-stage?

  49. Naga Says:
    January 23rd, 2007 at 9:44 am

    The FPI are nothing more than a closet homosexual group driven by their repressed homosexual desires. They are aggressive towards women becuase they don’t actually find them attractive.

  50. Ihaknt Says:
    January 23rd, 2007 at 9:48 am

    naga,

    They are thugs for hires. They run amok if they get paid or given lunch. All this in the name of God. Munafik huh?

  51. Miss Indo 07 Says:
    January 23rd, 2007 at 11:02 pm

    Cukurungan.
    If FPI complain, that’s because they can’t stand seeing it without being h*rny. That’s why.

  52. Cukurungan Says:
    January 25th, 2007 at 6:49 am

    Naga, Ihaknt and Miss 07,

    I deeply regreet to say that even the worst FPI men sound much better than your saints do you believe me, if don’t here we go google type below:

    Bobo’s World
    Dispatches from the American Heartland.
    Thursday, June 22, 2000

    The never-ending chronicle of church-related crime.

  53. Ihaknt Says:
    January 25th, 2007 at 6:55 am

    Cuk, so? They’re both are doing bad things in the name of religions. They’re both essentially the same but just covering themselves under different religions.

  54. Andrew Says:
    January 25th, 2007 at 7:02 am

    Cukurungan, we’re not proud of them either - they are all lost.

    They may call themselves Christian, but they are not good Christians in reality… noone is defending them here.

    I also believe Osama and FPI guys are Muslim, but they are not good Muslims.

  55. Dimp Says:
    January 25th, 2007 at 7:53 am

    Hi Cuk,

    Just because you know someone doing criminal acts does not justify you to do the same act as well.

    There will be chaos if you can justifiy your criminal acts by comparing to other criminals.

  56. Miss Indo 07 Says:
    January 25th, 2007 at 8:50 am

    Cuk.

    “Cuk, so? They’re both are doing bad things in the name of religions. They’re both essentially the same but just covering themselves under different religions.”

    I agree with Ihaknt.

    Btw Cuk, they aren’t our saint anyway.

    Hm, you can see the example of bad person of any religion actually, especially those who always use the religion that he/she believes to attack others, and we can see them in this website also (you know who).

  57. James Says:
    April 24th, 2007 at 10:20 am

    Justice for All? Look how many killed in POSO, Innocent People that Beheaded. Thus Religion and Politics are One, Open up your Mind. Thus God wants War for Our beliefs Christian or Muslim. If we Have Hearts and see how God Created all Equal with Rights. Communist and Terrorism kill People thus your Beliefs are also to kill. No respect of People, Not Love of Brother, and May God Open your Eyes. All those Murder their Brother Will Pay and God is Not Blind who call Him. Allah by Muslim, Can you Feel that Every Person Has Dignity and Life. Look at the Truth, No Peace, No Justice, No Heart, and No Love of Creatures. Will make their way to The Punishment were they Deserve to GO!

    Fr: Independent. Baptist Church

  58. Potangina Says:
    July 23rd, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    HOLY war is not GOD’s will, all they want is peace and love.

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