Porn Sites

Dec 29th, 2006, in News, by

Internet porn sites should be blocked by the government, say religious leaders.

Former Muhammadiyah leader Syafi'i Maarif, generally considered to be more relaxed in his understanding of Islam than the current Muhammadiyah boss, Din Syamsuddin, urges the government to take action against web porn sites.

Syafi'i Maarif
Syafi'i Maarif.

Indonesia was lagging behind its neighbours Singapore and Malaysia in the interception of internet porn, he said in Jakarta on the 20th during a discussion entitled "Peran Pemuka Agama Dalam Pengembangan Keluarga Sejahtera", or the Role of Religious Leaders in Creating Good Family Life".

He believed that porn could damage morality and increase crime rates, and that people who watched porn became only half human, morally speaking. detik

Separately on the 21st another moderate Muslim leader, Tholchah Hasan of the Nahdlatul Ulama (PBNU), agreed, saying also that the Indonesian government had to follow the lead of Singapore and Malaysia and get tough on porn websites. Hasan said that today there were four million pornographic websites in the world, which could be accessed by children and caused untold moral damage.

Tholchah Hasan
Tholchah Hasan.

Hasan, who was minister of religious affairs under president Abdurrahman Wahid and comes from Tuban, East Java, cited an example known to him. A 13 year old girl who had fallen pregnant told her doctor that sexual relations with her older brother had been initiated after the siblings had often seen their parents watching porno movies on DVD. antara


98 Comments on “Porn Sites”

  1. avatar Ihaknt says:

    1ndra you have so much experience in so many areas!!! I wonder what ratio is the truth?!?! You wait until you have kids then you know how difficult it is. But parents guidance is of course needed so kids have good foundation when you finally let them loose in the world. Of course parents are responsible for moral development. But seeing how Indonesia has become now, it seems that too many parents are too busy (read: lazy!)or just leave their kids to the ‘suster’ to raise! I have seen way too many scenes where a family of 4 has 2 nannies – 1 for each kid! That’s ridiculous. On top of that, these families may even still have a ‘pembantu’ at home! AND the mothers dont work! No wonder many have become little versions of these pembantus! At the end of the day these parents think that by paying whatever the kids need is a good parenting system!!

    Do you see the problem here? The problem does not lay on the porn sites, cos i can tell you kids these days can find a way around it! If things are made “illegal” to see, do, listen to, hear, etc, they become even more intriguing and interesting to explore. Indo parents are too prude to plant good foundation for their kids that sex is a sacred and a beautiful thing and should be respected. If the parents refuse to have a discussion, then no wonder the kids seek for the information outside the home. And what happens? the kids get the wrong information.
    You give your youngs your love, care, guidance and attention, for they have their own thoughts and will lead their own lives.

    Oh by the way I love watching porn and i turned out to be a great law-abiding citizen”Β¦Thanks to my mum and dad.

  2. avatar 1ndra says:

    Yeah, being a real parent is difficult, we have to deal with childs attitude their childish. But if we could get in to their mind, love, influence, love playing, everything you said will be much easier.
    Example :
    ‘Dont scratch/draw the walls’ -> With angry shout, it would make the child affraid thus will make they hate us then not respecting us, everything we said and in the future in their teen ages, they might draw something bigger like other people’s wall.
    But if we give them a drawing book, then we teach them how to draw, funny drawing and how to make cute colouring draw, make a picture frame, sticking it to the right wall/place to show it to people, it makes our influence grow up and they love us even more and made them love drawing in the right way. If they love drawing, we could give them a special drawing lesson, hope in their teens they’ll be designers. πŸ˜€

    But sure, that family are rare.

    ____________________

    Like these porn sites, if you couldnt teach them well, the ‘better’ way is to banned them but it’s just like to take down the wall than let it being drawed πŸ˜€
    And child never know the real meaning why they must not do that and when they discover the other ‘wall’ they’ll draw it.

    But in my mind, sex education is not coming from porn sites. The pictures are too extreme for childs to see.
    I cannot imagine myself sit down in front of my computer with my little child looking at some people doing orgies, threesome and etc, you name it.
    Maybe passwords and adult membership are better and no hotlinking.

    I hope later I’ll get better teaching technique and when I’m ready to have childs.

  3. avatar Tomaculum says:

    1ndra,
    nobody says here, that the porn sites are usefull for sex education. I think that is clear for us all.
    The point is to recognise our duty as parents (and our failures) and not always to seek any explanation for our failures elsewhere.
    Life is not only drawing flowers or angels, life is also violence, injustice and temptations. To keep away our children from such negative things means that they will preliminary not know those things and if they face those things in adult age, they will not know how to handle it.
    Or they meet those things in the childhood elsewhere without our attendance (because we think we’ve don our duty by forbidding them to watch a. e. porn sites). And the conclusion is the same: they can not reflect what they see.

  4. avatar Dimp says:

    So the government want to block the porn sites, what’s next? How about websites inciting violence, hatred, stupidity? Heck, why not close the whole internet then?

  5. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Yeah close the internet…and then put rules on every single aspect of its citizen. yeah that sounds great huh. that would REALLY advance Indonesia.

    I agree with you Tom. Kids need to be shown the real aspects of life. Of course we all need to make sure that they are around the right age to digest the info, or when the right opportunity arises. There are many kids out there who are way over protected and not know how to deal with issues when they are adults. Unfortunately we all find out in our adult lives that life is not all rosey.

  6. avatar Riccardo says:

    While I vehemently disagree with any form of censorship, it would make this country, and a few others, more productive if they managed to block porn sites. The statistics are overwhelming for Indonesia, however.

    Of the nearly 20 million regular internet users in Indonesia, nearly 65% spend the majority of their time surfing and downloading from porn sites (it’s also curious that about 65% of Indonesian internet users are male!).

    According to ACNielsen’s most recent report, nearly 70% of Indonesians access the internet at their place of work/office. So if they blocked porn sites, office workers, journalists etc, would have to actually use their computers for work-related stuff, instead of spending the majority of their time on porn. One solution I’e heard would be to only hire women for such jobs, however, the majority of RI women’s time is spent on chatroom gossip.

    I worked in a big office with about 100 staff connected to the Internet, and the IT guy confirmed this, saying that too much time was spent on porn sites and not only was there a lot of lost productivity, the porn sites were always the source of viruses for the entire LAN system in the office. That meant down-time for everyone (even the few of us who were trying to be productive) as they had to totally disinfect the whole system a couple times a week.

  7. avatar Dimp says:

    I would say, if you want to have censorship enforced in Indonesia, why don’t this applied to violence and stupidity as well, then where would it ends?

    Again it all depend on the education, I see no harm in pornography, as long as it is conducted privately and not used in the wrong way.

  8. avatar Peter says:

    Ini sangat menarik!

    I’m not sure if there is any easy answer to this puzzle.

    The big problems seem to be these:

    1. Bureaucratic corruption prevents the Indonesian government from acting efficiently or accountably.

    2. Indonesia’s economy has not fully recovered from the 1997/98 financial crisis, and as a result, people must spend more time working in order to maintain a good standard of living. Indonesia’s economy is also being held back by the rampant corruption within the government – which scares off foreign investors (who don’t want to risk another financial crisis).

    3. Indonesians are struggling to maintain their traditional culture and morality while being confronted by two alien forces: fanatical, militant Islam, on one hand, and amoral consumerism (as well as the flashy [bad] side of Western culture – which is used to sell things and promote a consumer culture) on the other hand.

    Will censoring internet pornography spur any improvements in crime rates? The evidence says probably not.

    Will censoring internet pornography reduce corruption, or improve the economy? No.

    Will censoring internet pornography slow the decay of traditional culture? No. Abolishing all TV’s and computers might…

    Will censoring internet pornography improve the productivity of Indonesian workers who use computers? Probably…But, this workplace censorship could be done by the companies by simply putting filtering software on their computer networks.

    We can all agree that internet pornography not very compatible with mainstream morality…

    The question is: Should Indonesians have a right to do something that is arguably undesirable, if it is not shown to be excessively destructive to society?

    Now think about this for a moment.

    For those of you who say no, you should then also be in complete agreement that no Indonesians should have the right to smoke cigarettes.

    All in all, banning internet pornography will not have much of an effect on anything (since Indonesia isn’t very “wired” like countries such as South Korea), but it would be a symbolic gesture that might pave the way for more sweeping bans in the future.

    For all forms of pornography in general, I think that we can learn from America’s handling of its cigarette smoking problem. Pornography is something that, like cigarettes, is used only for pleasure, and carries more negative effects (such as addiction) than positive ones. Porn (like cigarettes) can be very destructive in rare cases, but in total is not shown to threaten the prosperity of society (unlike heroin or guns).

    The best way to deal with (all) pornography (and with cigarettes) is not to ban it, but to manage it.

    Now cigarettes are heavily regulated in the U.S. Each pack contains a label warning about the negative health effects of cigarettes, and stores are fined heavily for selling to those under the legal smoking age. Cigarette companies are also banned from advertising on television. Smoking has just been banned from all public places in the U.S. (including bars and restaurants), in order to protect waiters and bartenders from second-hand smoke. All these efforts have drastically reduced the percentage of smokers in this country.

    We saw what happened when Playboy was effectively banned by militant Muslims – the magazines just ended up on the black market for much higher prices.

    Perhaps a dictatorial regime like Suharto’s could both enforce a full ban on porn and suppress the black market, but not a democratic government (that can’t do whatever it wants, and is too weak and corrupt to, anyway).

    If they want to ban porn, why not go after the VCDs and DVDs, anyway?

  9. avatar Ihaknt says:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, not the dvds!!!! I like those cheap dvds. Screw the hollyweird dude. they are rich already!!! im talking about the legit movies though. Or are you talking about the porn ones??? if yes then yes ban them please. they’re sh*t anyway.

  10. avatar Miss Indo 07 says:

    I agree with Ihaknt, living without cheap movies is kind of hard man.

  11. avatar Peter says:

    I meant the *porn* VCDs and DVDs…

  12. avatar 1ndra says:

    Now cigarettes are heavily regulated in the U.S. Each pack contains a label warning about the negative health effects of cigarettes, and stores are fined heavily for selling to those under the legal smoking age. Cigarette companies are also banned from advertising on television. Smoking has just been banned from all public places in the U.S. (including bars and restaurants), in order to protect waiters and bartenders from second-hand smoke. All these efforts have drastically reduced the percentage of smokers in this country.

    So? Cigarette banned for advertising, and you said porn=cigarette, so we should banned it from advertising? πŸ™‚
    For me its sound like banning πŸ™‚ and sure our country and some militant Muslims are doing the works.
    No porn here and there, no prostitution here and there, no blue vcd dvd here and there. There’re some operation by police and other by militant Muslims to destroy the porn and other illegal products.
    Sound the same isnt it?

  13. avatar Ihaknt says:

    And have people stopped smoking after the ban? NO. They just are more restricted to release their habbit. But they still do it. When it’s a habbit it’s harder to kick it. Especially a bad one. It has to come from the inside, willpower. Smoking and sex are probably the oldest habbits on this earth. People have been doing it for years. Guess we can tell from the population right? I mean if people didnt have sex then there wouldn’t be any babies. We wouldn’t be here.
    Putting ugly pictures on ciggi packs dont stop people from smoking either, they just look thru them. I smoke sometimes and i dont really care about what it does to me. I am not a heavy smoker tho. But if we all die one day then might as well die and have done the stuff you wanna do in life. And for me that includes drinking, smoking, watching porn, pickin on people and blabbing in this forum πŸ˜‰

  14. avatar Dimp says:

    What if they start putting “ugly pictures” on porn?

  15. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Oh my God Dimp you nailed it! It’s a brilliant idea. Run it through the parliament! I didn’t even think of that! Brilliant!

  16. avatar Peter says:

    First of all, cigarette companies are not banned from advertising, only from advertising on television.

    Second of all, Ihaknt, you are correct that people still smoke cigarettes in the U.S., but you are missing the point entirely. Now a much smaller percentage of the population smokes than before, when none of those restrictions were in place. The point was not to ban cigarettes or end smoking, but to curtail and control it, which is precisely what the measures achieved.

  17. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Hi Peter, ok i know that. but you’re thinking in your familiar environement, so am i. I think people will smoke regardless if there are advertising or not. For example in Australia, there is no ads for cigarettes anywhere, not in printed medias, not on TV, not on radios, nothing. It’s even banned to smoke outdoors. But people still smoke. the kids who start to smoke are getting younger and younger. so how do we apply these measures and controls on pornography? What i mean is that if people want to do it they find ways around it. banned or not. Just like drugs. its banned, its outlawed, its illegal but people still do it. anyway, interesting world we live in huh? a bit sad in some ways but interesting.

  18. avatar 1ndra says:

    Yes, they go underground. But what will happened if they arent banned/prohibited? Flowing in my thought.

    Back to the family morality and education value…

  19. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Indra,

    I think it is better if it is being controlled than banned, for example gambling here is not banned but rather controlled, thus the government can benefit from the tax, and the tax can be used to benefit the people. There is a gambling hotline which helps gambling addicts. Similarly the cigarettes are heavily taxed and levied here, and again the government provide quit-line, assisting people who would like to quit smoking.

  20. avatar 1ndra says:

    Wah, gambling legaliting?…well it never happened in Indonesia, there will be riot.

    But about pornography, my comment above, give access only with paid membership with tax of course. No hotlinking, no free share.

  21. avatar Peter says:

    Internet pornography is so tough to control due to the loose nature of the internet.. It would be good if people had to register somewhere and create a personal account and password that allowed them to access pornographic sites but verified that they were of an appropriate age. I think the main concern is about children seeing pornography, as it surely has a stronger effect on younger eyes.

    However, I don’t think that pornography leads to destructive behaviors necessarily, especially not when the viewer has a strong moral foundation and family background.

    I’m not sure if a total ban would be good, simply because it could empower Muslim political factions to press for even more extreme “moral legislation”.

  22. avatar Hassan says:

    Can someone tell me the benefits of having restriction-free internet porn? Well, besides the obvious base (and lustful) entertainment value (seriously, is there no other form of entertainment for adults?). Why shouldn’t it be restricted?

    On the other hand, we could easily create a long list of the negative effects of internet porn.

    Based on the cost-benefit effects that porn have on our society, well i guess there’s no use for us to keep it up.

    As the saying goes, “Dari mata turun ke hati”. As for porn, we all knew to which place it will lead.

  23. avatar 1ndra says:

    Yes, it is true, porn is only for pleasure and intented only for adult who are with better thinking.
    And I want to know if there’re any law that granted child accessing porn. I mean adult pic/porn is for 18 years above, is it?

    And there’s no reason to let or teach your child what porn is by accessing the porn sites with them. You’re violated child laws!

  24. avatar Dimp says:

    Hi Indra,

    That is what I don’t like about a lot of Indonesian people, they are hypocrite, when they are talking about legalised gambling there will definetely be rampant demonstrating, but at the moment there are already rampant gambling everywhere, I mean what about people who are trying their luck at TIMEZONE or AMAZONE or wherever, when they get tickets to exchange with goods? Isn’t this gambling?

    The same about porn, when Playboy was released the FPI tried to shut it, but they turn a blind eye on other tabloids showing more skins.

    For Hassan,

    The benefit of controlling the porn industry is tax, with underground porn the government don’t get any benefit such as tax. The same with legalised prostitution, without legalisation there are already rampant prostitution, Gang Dolly is the biggest localisation in South East Asia, I think it is time for the government to legalise red light district, and so they can control these sections, get tax that can benefit the people, and also protect the workers/customers against violence and diseases.

  25. avatar 1ndra says:

    Legalizing sins? Never!

    The government arent serious in destroying these bad ‘culture’ because some of them are giving some ‘tax’, kong kali kong = kong kong = bad ass. πŸ˜€

  26. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    1ndra said:

    Legalizing sins? Never!

    Think Polygamy in the present day? Adultery legalised behind a screen of misleading and false religious teachings.

  27. avatar 1ndra says:

    Then you think Quran is false too? Because it never prohibited polygamy.

    Quran only limited by four with the responbility to be fair.

  28. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    1ndra,

    I said polygamy in the present day.

    The Quranic verses relating to polygamy are very clear as I have said before:

    And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice, then only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course. 4:3

    These verses were delivered after the battle of Uhud and can therefore be considered to be contextual, they are to protect widows and orphans of war, not as an excuse for men who cannot control their lust to take a second wife for sexual purposes.

    The conditions for polygamy are:
    1, Time of war
    2, If you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans
    3, If you fear that you will not do justice (to the women)

    As is clear from the following verse:
    Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her hanging. If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 4:129

    the third condition can never be met!

    If you wish to interpret the verses in a different way that is your choice, but to me they are very clear!

  29. avatar 1ndra says:

    To me, Quran and its exegenisis are clear too, I have multiple Quran and its stated the same verses :

    4:3,

    ‘Dan jika kamu takut tidak akan dapat berlaku adil terhadap (hak-hak) perempuan yang yatim (bilamana kamu menikahinya)

    Mean orphan

    ‘maka nikahilah wanita-wanita (lain) yang kamu senangi : dua, tiga, atau empat.’

    Mean other women those are not orphan.

    ‘Kemudian jika kamu takut tidak akan dapat berlaku adil maka (nikahilah) seorang saja atau budak-budak yang kamu miliki’

    Mean if you cant be fair, then just marry one, or marry women who are in poverty etc in order to save them.

    The last, is my own interpretation since now there’re no slaves, I doubt nowaday a rich will marry a homeless one as his second third or fourth wife.

    By the way, you might forget to interpret why this

    then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four;

    verses exist.

    Quran come to limited the poligamy by four but not to prohibited but with the condition you can be fair.

    ________________________

    In 4:129,

    ‘Dan kamu sekali-kali tidak akan dapat berlaku adil di antara isteri-ister(mu), walaupun kamu sangat ingin berbuat demikian, karena itu janganlah kamu terlalu cenderung (kepada yang kamu cintai), sehingga kamu biarkan yang lain terkatung-katung. Dan jika kamu mengadakan perbaikan dan memelihara diri (dari kecurangan), maka sesungguhnya Allah Maha Pengampun lagi Maha Penyayang.’

    It means, about love its impossible to be fair, but they (husband) couldnt be punished because of that. Because love and heart is Allah’s properties.
    But because you could love them fair you must be fair and not spend too much in your most loved one, but you must spend the same and equal to all your wifes.
    This verses means about love divide.

    Do you know the reason why this verses came?

    Muhammad saw tried his best to be fair, yes he could be fair in all but the love, he love Aisyah ra at the most. Then he felt committing a sin then he prayed and asking for mercy from Allah swt. Then this 4:129 came to state that human cannot be fair in loving (heart), but can be fair in logical reason, like physical/worldly/duniawi needs (Food, clothes, houses, money, etc), for that Allah is Merciful and wouldn’t sin them if they have been fair in worldly and sure they must not spend most time/worldly in their mostly loved wife but give their wife the equal time/worldly.

    And this verses come to give punishment for people who do poligamy only for passion and cant be fair who marry other women because he loved her but left his first wife.

  30. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Hassaaaaaannn…I half agree with you (wow…never thought i’d say that!) πŸ˜€
    yes it should be restricted, but banned completely? you can try but it is impossible. kids these days are smart enough to find ways around it. It comes down to parenting, education and self restrain/control – what sets us above the animals. Kids will sooner or later find out what sex it. as parents, they need to teach that sex is not just a release of a desire but a more sacred thing than that. that it should only be done between two people who love each other, and that to do it, it requires a lot of thinking and considerations (especially for girls). If kids cant get info from their parents they will seek outside. Even if they can they still seek outside for more info but hopefully the teaching at home will balance that influence from outside that maybe bad. Think back when you were growing up, werent you curious to know what it was? where did you get all your info from? parents, books, tv, friends? i am sure it’s all of the above right? unless your parents were reluctant to share some infos about sex.

    Why not just install a net nanny?

    I have a question. why is it that many prude countries have higher population growth than those of less prude?

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