Bush’s Blood Halal

Nov 19th, 2006, in News, by

Habib Rizieq of the Islam Defenders’ Front says it is religiously permissible to murder George Bush.

During a speech given to a large crowd protesting against the upcoming visit by George Bush to Indonesia Habib Rizieq said at Jakarta on Sunday 19th November:

Bush can be killed by anyone who has the chance to kill him. It’s not just that it is permissible to kill him, he must be killed. I am prepared to be responsible for [saying] this in the hereafter.
(Bush halal dibunuh bagi siapa saja yang punya kesempatan untuk membunuhnya. Bush bukan saja boleh dibunuh tapi wajib dibunuh. Saya bertanggung jawab dunia akhirat.)

Upon saying these words Habib, who is the leader of the Front Pembela Islam (FPI), a radical Islamic group, was greeted with cries of “Allahu Akbar” (God is great) from the tens of thousands of people present at the demonstration outside the Istana Merdeka palace.

Habib Rizieq
Habib Rizieq.

Habib said that Bush could legitimately be murdered because he has committed crimes against humanity, not because he is of a different religion and race. More blood-curdling cries of “Allahu Akbar” ensued. detik

82 Comments on “Bush’s Blood Halal”

  1. Ismail says:

    Indra, let me help you with another translations perhaps it will be clearer.

    Both by Muslim scholars Ahmed Ali(AA) and Yusuf Ali(YA) respectively,
    At-Taubah 9:29 (sura)


    Fight those people of the Book who do not believe in God and the Last Day, who do not prohibit what God and His Apostle have forbidden, nor accept divine law, until all of them pay protective tax(Jizya) in submission.


    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    The people of the book do not believe in your prophet in anyway cause we know he is fake.

    The people of the book do not believe in your last days because it’s a lie the Muslim men will get virgins in heaven, rivers of wine and women won’t be majority in hell because they have lower interlligence or for lack of obedience to their husband who could possibly be a nut case.

    People of the book belive in the lordship of Jesus and that he died on the cross.

    People of the book are not sure that Allah is the same God in the bible.

    People of the book do not believe that it right to beat one’s wife lightly or otherwise, I am sure i can go on and on but I am sure my point is well explained

    It’s indeed your prophet that twisted the word of God(bible)and formed his own religion aided by some demon that appeared as an angel, this happened in the 7th century and it still happening today.

    It’s clear that the reason Muslim must figth and kill is quite straight forward, just explain the verse and it make sense i will back out.

    Daniel, I can’t change anyone, but the truth must be told, Islam is a cult, overgrown cult that seek to overtake the world. and it will kill and distroy, if that is what is required for world domination. this killing won’t stop, you can go talk to Islamic court in somalia and the talaban in afgan and pakistan and the rest of the real Muslims who hold the Quran dear and true. spend your anger on them not me, cause I am telling the truth. there are only three options for non Muslims.

    convert, stay what you are and pay submission tax called jizya or die. It’s that simple. In true Islam there is no room for non-Muslims and apostates.

    Finally I am sorry what I said caused offence, if anyone says anything about Christianity i get upset yes, but I just sit back consider their words, then go back to the bible learn the truth and come back and defend my faith, i encourage Muslims to do the same no need to insult me.I am not insulting anyone just an ideology that just might be wrong and hateful in the first place. Just prove me wrong that way you learn more about your faith.


    Daniel, Christianity is insulted everyday in the media and in mosques, go to Muslims symposia, you will see what i mean, they tell each other that our bible is a waste, corrupted and edited, how our lord is just a man mush lower than the beloved prophet and all that, I have been there i know what I am say just ask them for the writing of Ahmed deedat and shabir ally and the rest of the crew of laughable bible scholars and they really sound like they know what they are saying.
    We Christians don’t carry bombs and kill, not because we not upset but because we remember the words of Christ, and he told us not to defend him, bible says our anger can’t help and promote God’s rightousness and certainly never to revenge, remember the Amish!!
    On the other hand mohammed took revenges, even assasinated a poet because he was insulted, amongst others, so Muslims have a good example to follow. Just look around you its happening even as we speak.
    Thank you.

  2. Munafikbangetloepade says:

    Btw, about that open source religion thing, if you don’t like a particular open source religion (that you used to like), you can simply fork it if you think you have a better idea, and have the time and resources to do that. Or… simply start a new one. Time will tell if your religion will thrive with the vibrant community behind it or… just turn into a zombie in the repository.

    So…, in a way, it evolves like science…, I guess. And…, if you use the newer source code versioning system, such as subversion, you have that _blame_ feature. So, we always know who is / are the one(s) who committed that stupid bug that have caused some funny things to happen.

  3. Fanglong says:

    Of course, Munafik.etc., it’s fun ! No problem…
    I’d wish to say to Ismail he should relax.
    Why repeating that Christians have no “jihad” ? Crusades, missions, inquisition, colonisation, shoah are quite “bombing”, aren’t they ?
    Stop seeing a man as a member of a religious group : just see a man ! You must grow, my friend, & stop parrotting ( + the interpretation you like) “religious texts”. It can convince only those who are already convinced. And if you don’t like the Qur’an but still want to find some good in a Muslim, please read Jalâl ud-Dîn Rûmî, for instance, or Ibn Arabî, or Râzî, or… You know, things and realities are many : if you stop on ONE only and assess it’s the right one, I’m glad for you — if you’re pleased. Otherwise, I think being STUCK in one exclusive way of thinking is just urging the Alzheimer’s syndrome…

    Peace !

  4. Ismail says:

    Gravatar Fanglong, hold your fire, you have to prove anything you say from the bible, if people claim to be Christians that don’t make them one. In any case you have to prove the crusade is from the bible, inquisition is an instruction from the words of Christ, colonisation is a Christian doctrine, well it’s not and it not inspired by the words of Jesus. Please there is not jihad in the bible and none in Christianity, Christ never ordered any.
    Jesus said

    go ye into all the world and preach the gospel, healing the sick and those afflicted, casting out demons and setting people free.

    That is all Christ ordered we do, nothing like crusade, colonisation. Jesus said if you obey not my word you have no part of me simple. So next please sir, tell me what is in the bible and not what people do.

    Finally I have to talk about the ideology because we are all product of our ideology and beliefs and that is a fact, that is why we must address it. You better believe it I am stuck in my way of life. I have no problem with no one but the ideology of hate.

  5. Daniel says:

    Ismail, thanks for your reply. What country do u live in? Plz email me:


  6. 1ndra says:

    “if people claim to be Christians that don’t make them one”


  7. Tomaculum says:

    I think that is the biggest problem. The words in the “holly” books were written by people living in the very, very past time with their very, very time specific problems.
    And what we have done? We transported and transport those words 1 to 1 (exactly) to our era and we don’t notice that some regulations actually don’t suit to the current time/context.
    And we argue and argue with it and seed this way more and more misunderstanding and hate.
    But maybe it is easier and more pleasing to “discuss” that way and we surely need to express our grudge by hook or by crook.
    Books are uncomplaining, however you interprete it.

  8. Fanglong says:

    As-salâmu ‘alayka yâ Isma’îl !

    Jesus said : “Whoever is not with me is against me.”
    He also said (500 years after Confucius) : “Love the others like yourself”.
    But Jesus has something nice about him which has been harmed by subsequent practices of the Church : Pius XII not helping the Jews during the Holocaust, for instance.
    Cherry-picking is no proof at all. We can find in those books (Bible, Qur’an, Gospel, Buddhist Sûtras, Hindu Shâstras, Zend Avesta, Jaina Sûtras, Mormon’s Book…) everything & its contrary. Do you know about Chinese Huayan, Tiantai, Ch’an Buddhism? Tibetan Tantras, for instance? Have you heard of “bodhicitta”, which is the thought to attain enlightenment for the sake of ALL sentient beings (be they mosquitoes or even presidents of a republic or even Noordin M Top)? Bodhicitta is the core of Mahâyâna Buddhism: there exists people who love others much more than themselves, and would prefer to die than killing the most minute animal (this is called ahimsâ, non-violence) — and at the same time they are well concentrated, recognize the EMPTINESS (shûnyatâ) of their EGO, and of everything animate & inanimate … Oh, I feel I’m sliding with joy towards the Ghayb… God be blessed & all of you!

  9. Ismail says:

    1ndra, I am not sure what I said that makes me an hypocrite, I am sure that statement is true perhaps in all circumstance, there are people that claim to be vegetarians and yet the eat meat secretly, it follows that if you eat meat you cannot be vegetarian, I think it’s that simple. I guess because your beloved Islam is involved, I therefore can not possibly be making sense. how sad.

  10. Hassan says:

    Ismail: what I said was “nah, killing bush is not the solution” it means we should not kill bush, period. NOT “Muslims its ok to kill bush” as you mentioned. i think that was a pathetic attempt to twist my oppinion.

    you know what Ismail? i think you are getting desperate in trying to discredit me, so you resort to twisting my oppinions. well don’t blame me for your situation of not having any credibility and honesty. it is you who were always lying and hiding the facts when quoting the Quran, not me.

    Ismail, i doubt that you had been a Muslim before. first of all, you showed that you did not know anything about the Quran and the CONTEXT of it’s verses, a Muslim who had read the Quran should. it seems you had read some books that contained anti Islam propagandas, which listed some Quranic verses which those books deemed as ‘evil’, and then you simply quoted those books, instead of reading the Quran directly.

    Ismail, why are you acting as if you’re the spokesperson for the people of the book? are you saying that each and every single one of them did not believe in the the last days and Muhammad (pbuh)? did you know that not all of the people of the book believed in Jesus? some of them denied him and worshipped yahweh Ismail, they were called the Jews. people of the book are the people who believed in The One True God, and had received His revelations prior to Islam, not just Christians.

    Ismail, most of us had figured you as a dishonest bigot a long time ago. you like to slander others, don’t you? i guess Ismail is what Ismail does.

    Ismail, what you believed as the truth might not be entirely the ultimate truth. ‘the truth’ is a relative term. God alone has that knowledge. so, you’re not in a position to insult other faiths as ‘fake’ and ‘evil’.

    BTW, a hypocrit as 1ndra had mentioned might have something to do with your attitude: you like to insult other people’s faiths, but you wouldn’t like it if your religion got insulted.

  11. Ismail says:

    Hassan you are rather quick at calling me a bigot, i guess that is your best defence for your dispicable ideology i.e Islam and i am sure that hypocracy could actually mean something else in Islam but please go check the meaning of it in the dictionary, that is the way we infidel see it.
    believe what you will about me, that won’t change a thing. i quoted sura9:29 i guess you have nothing to say about it.
    and you are right the people of the book means both Christians and Jews, but i took the liberty of replying because as you may have guessed, i call myself a Christian now, therefore i have a right to defend people of the book’s belief at least where its concern Christianity. I can’t see a problem with that, well i guess you do.

    you just help your Muslims friend with the so called CONTEXT of your ‘holy book’, the Quran itself claims, it easy to understand, so if i have go around looking for context how can that be simple.you don’t worry about what others in the blog think you just think and defend your relative truth.

    by the way you said

    Ismail, what you believed as the truth might not be entirely the ultimate truth. ‘the truth’ is a relative term. God alone has that knowledge. so, you’re not in a position to insult other faiths as ‘fake’ and ‘evil’.

    i beg to defer, killing an apostate and infidels is evil, taking zaid’s wife is evil, assasination is evil, particulerly when you are a prophet, taking more than one wife is evil as far a Christ is concern, sleeping with a nine old girl, when you are 54years even the 7th century is evil by bible and human standard, i believe truth is not as relative as you would want us to think. but if you still think it is,Go tell the Muslims killing that what they are killing for is relative knowlegde perhaps they might have a rethink.

    please Hassan use your TAQQIYA in a more product way, we Christians are not your worry, its what your brothers in Islam are doing that you should worry about.

    news this week,
    two Christians convert are on trial for there faith in turkey
    a Christian convert was killed in kashmire.
    a Christian convert was killed in iran, he was stabbed to death

    and you wonder Christian convert not coming out, go figure.

  12. Hassan says:

    Ismail: by definition a bigot is someone with hatred towards other people’s belief, and i guessed you fit into that category. a hypocrit is someone who claimed to be one thing but his words and actions turned up to be quite the opposite, you Ismail had claimed to be incapable of hate and full of love, but your words and actions toward other people’s faith showed otherwise. thus, you can fit into that category as well (hypocrit).

    i didn’t say anything about surah 9:29 because i am rather bored of proving you wrong all the time about your conception of the Quran. YES Ismail, the Quran IS easy to understand, but that doesn’t mean you can interpret it as you want it. as for why you don’t seem to understand it correctly all i can say that maybe there is something wrong with you and your intentions towards the Quran. therefore, CONTEXT is important, so that people like you will be unable to interpret holy texts according their whims, and ill intentions.

    about the bible standards, non Christians should not be judged based on the bible’s standards, don’t you think? we know all about your fabricated bible(s).

    and Ismail, i am not worried about the Christians. i am more worried about the rising numbers of bigots these days. you know Ismail, bigots don’t solve problems, they just incite hate towards others. can you imagine Ismail if within Christianity and Islam there are bigots on both sides, who will suffer the most? the decent followers of BOTH religions.

  13. Munafikbangetloepade says:

    why are you guys following any religions? especially the ones that are full of mumbo jumbos and dogmas?

    i mean, isn’t enough just to know that you should not hurt other people by any means?

  14. Andrew says:

    Hassan said:

    we know all about your fabricated bible(s)

    I’m not sure what you mean by this statement. You claim that you are more worried about bigots, yet you yourself derogate the holy book of other religion.

    You don’t have to agree with what my bible says, the same way I don’t have to believe in what your book says – that’s what make me a Christian and you a Muslim.

  15. Bradlymail says:

    On comment on “Bush’s blood halal’,i am totally not agreed with that words. Only the man without religions would do such things. Ismail – I believe he is the man with two faces, he claimed to be a Muslim before but I do not believe. He’s something like ‘dajal’ or devil comes down to the earth to make chaos, destroy the prosperities of the people of the world. I also agree with Hasan, I am more worried about the rising numbers of bigots or ‘dajals’ nowadays.

  16. Satireist says:

    Referring to Hassan’s comment, any book that is more then 2000+ years old can be can interpreted in hundreds of ways. I am not surprised that this has happened, nor shall I be surprised when this happens in the future.

    Just look at the many deities that have originated from Christianity or Islam. We have Shia, Sunni, Protestant, Catholic….

    What you believe to be right, in the end, is the right choice, no matter what your religion, inciting hate is bad, no matter what your religion.

  17. Ismail says:

    Hassan, i can see you are back with your trade mark, first the fact that i believe that Islam is a satanic over grown cult don’t mean i hate,(yes i hate Islam but not Muslims), it means i say things as they are, i believe you worship an dead god, that demands blood and anyone can see, if they chose to see. just give it a few more days and the ‘religion of peace’ will strike again.i have encourage you to defend your faith, forget me. Islam is been questioned everyday now and its not going to stop, Muslims can kill all they want, but its going to get worse, you better start coming up with defensible positions, let me help you with a few.

    your prophet slept with a 9 years old girl that makes him a pedophilia, it was a crime in most civilisation of the 7th century and its a crime to day.

    you prophet assasinated several people because, in some cases they refused his massage and in others he complained of being insulted and wondered who will relieve him of his victims

    beating onces wife either lightly or otherwise is an insult to everything the Christian God stood for.

    there is no virgins in heaven for your mujahideens and yourself.its a lie against God’s heaven

    marry 4 wives even if you can treat them equally is a adultary.insult to the sanctity of marriage.

    women don’t have half-brain, in so many ways they can be better than men. i thnk i should stop here.

    Bradlymail, call me what ever and believe what ever about me, it really doesn’t matters, whats matters is what I said, is the stuff true, if not defend it, you need to stop calling me names and start to think and constructively defend your cult.

    i say and i can prove in so many ways that Islam is satanic and its a dead blackstone worship,and the evidences are there to see.

    the bible remains true, we have been defending our scriptures from the begining against such like you(agnostic), and we will continue, its convenient for Muslims to say that, because it shows what a phoony your prophet is, with the lies he spins and the bundle-bunch non-sense the Quran is. the fact that your scholars say it, don’t mean anything, try and find out for yourself, be sure its true

    finally, even your prophet was told by his Allah, to ” check with the people to the BOOK(bible) to be sure about his own relevations” then went on to contradict the same BOOK, it shows, he is a fake prophet and the Quran, that the mujahideens are dying for is a hive of contradictions

    By the way do you the Iran has issues and fatwas(murder instruction) against another jornalist,http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6158195.stm, Islam is what Islam does.

    interpretation is a product of understanding
    . i guess you must know the many sect in Islam, perhaps you are familia with two the one killing each other (shia and sunni) i guess it must be hard for them to understand and interpret

    finally, Muslims are people, that can be lovely and wonderful, but i see that the ideology of Islam is twisting there minds, it make good poeple become evil and demon possessed and they don’t know what they are going anymore, pretty much like the way the prophet recieved is revelation, please go find out!!

  18. Bradlymail says:

    Ismail, my dear friend, have a deep breath and release it slowly…and your interpretation about Islam is totally cannot be acceptable. Islam is a religion and not a sects or political party. I think you have to study Islam from basic and know about it’s history too. God bless you! my friend Ismail.

  19. Ismail says:

    Bradlymail, I have taken your advice, but I fear that you need to explain that to your Muslim brothers because they really need it, just learnt today of the killing six Christians by 300 Muslims, while they were having night vigil, this breaks my heart, because this guys believe the are serving God, I know it’s not there fault they really don’t know what they are doing, they’ve got Islam on the mind.

    Please look around you see what Islam in doing from thailand, to the philipines, darfur, iraq, just wait you soon hear of more, it will be in the news. Islam is what Islam does and it won’t stop.
    You called it my interpretation that is laughable, what do you think osama bin ladin tells this people, what motivate them enough to kill, look at afghan a Muslim teacher was mutilated because he teaches Muslim girls.

    Finally who told you Islam is a just a religion, its a cult with a political agenda, my friend I fear you know very little about your religion, maybe you should take a course in sharia law perhaps you will understand about it more.

  20. Fanglong says:

    Hello !

    Christians kill Christians also ; Muslims kill Muslims also, etc., etc.
    You can replace the word “Christian” by the word “Muslim”, and the word “kill” by “love” or anything : stop playing the children and open your eyes : all of that obeys to the realistic laws of money and power. All idealistic trends must stay home & children sleep longer to enjoy longer their dreams.
    The real is a bloody piece of meat with dogs and wolves around.
    Btw, have you seen the last James Bond, “Casino Royale” ?

    Intense and true salam to all !

  21. 1ndra says:

    Well I’m a Muslim, I read Quran and Hadith, and I’m not a killer…:)

  22. huangeffendi says:

    *sigh* look where it took us? After reading all these thread, I’m 100% agree with John Lennon said in Imagine songs. Anyway, after you read Quran or Bible – try to read some comics. I recommend ‘the cartoon history of the universe’ by larry gonick, and ask yourself what if all the religion was just a crap?

  23. Peter says:

    Ismail quoted:

    “Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe not in God nor in the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.”

    Brother, I believe this quote illustrates the greatest problem with Islam (and other religions) – the fact that so many verses were “handed down” at a specific time in a specific place to a specific group of people for a specific reason.

    I believe the verse you quoted was “handed down” to Muhammad after he and his followers had been attacked and driven out of Mecca. This verse is telling that particular group of Muslims that it is permissible for them to fight back against the Meccans who had kicked them out and stole their property. In this context, it is a perfectly reasonable verse, and most of us would agree with it.

    However, the problem is that people take these injunctions and try to apply them universally to life in the 21st century – but in our modern context verses like these make no sense and are not practical or ethical.

    Another example is the practice of polygamy in Islam. The verse permitting polygamy was “handed down” to Muhammad and his followers after they suffered a particularly crushing defeat in battle (the Battle of Uhud). Huge numbers of Muslim women were left as widows after their men fell on the battlefield, and in the patriarchal society at the time – where women were dependent on men to provide for them materially – this meant that the Muslim community faced a potential crisis, as these destitute women could not support themselves. This is when the verse permitting polygamy was “handed down”, and it allowed the men of that Muslim community to effectively adopt the helpless widows by marrying them and taking them into their household.

    But in our present context, this verse hardly makes sense, except for in patriarchal war-torn areas that are underdeveloped.

    So we need to understand the contexts of different injunctions before we condemn them or accept them.

    I am not apologizing for Islam in any way, but I just feel that people need to think more critically about these issues. There are certain universal injunctions in the Qur’an that I categorically disagree with, but even these have to be examined in the context of Arab culture at the time.

    The tough questions we must ask are: How should people practice Islam? Should it be amended to better fit with our modern world? Is it even possible to amend Islam, when there is no central leader for it (i.e. no Muslim ‘Pope’)? How much of it is based on ethics and logic, and how much of it is simply a function of Arab cultural practices?

    If people simply swallow anything they are fed without chewing it properly, they will eventually choke.

  24. Bradlymail says:

    Ismail, thanks with love, I noted your message.

  25. Ismail says:

    Peter, I do understand your explanation, that is part what i have been explaining to Muslims, but you see because they want to hold on to the Quran as the word of God, it makes it difficult for them to understand.

    By your explanation,the Quran is only applicable in the 7th century therefore as no place now. That means me it’s not God’s word not just that it completely plagarise the bible but because its time specific.

    Let me give you an example, Jesus said he had come, so that we can do away with the old testament laws, he effectively told us that the only law that matter were the concerns of the new testament. but proponent of the principle of moral equivalent are always pointing to the volence in the old testament as if you can find Christians living by old testement today. They forget or refuse to acknowledge the fact that the old testment for us Christians are effective NARRATIVE not INSTRUCTIVE.

    I think the Quran should be completely abandoned and its teaching abrogated, not just the meccans verses but all the Quran altogether.

  26. 1ndra says:

    Abandoned it? As you did? Never.
    I’ve learnt much better than you so I could see what you didnt see.

  27. Ismail says:

    1ndra, don’t worry it will happen because God loves you and he his not looking for slaves, rather he his looking for sons and daughters, he his not Allah either, because he seeks relationships not submission, he want to be reasoned with not simply obeyed and by the way your choice matters to him, he will not force you.
    He said sins kept us away from him, but he took care off that. he simply wants you to search for him.not just imagine you’ve got it covered.
    Look at most Muslims nations they have laws against conversion because they know that if people are free to search, things might be different. Please if you are still free to search please search.
    This week a german man is jailed in morroco because he preached the gospel. But truth is truth and it possibly will be suppressed because there deeds are evil.
    Jesus said “he that hunger and thirst for rightiousness will be filled”.
    I don’t believe in any religion but I believe in Jesus.

  28. Peter says:

    Ismail, while I mentioned two examples of Qur’anic injunctions that should not be followed today, there are countless others that everyone could benefit from: Modesty, meditation on God and his Prophets, humility, charity, patience, commitment to family and community, sobriety, scientific investigation (yes, Islam inspired some of the greatest scientific/mathematic achievements (algebra)), etc. etc. By far, most Muslims I’ve met have been good-natured, generous people.

    However, there is the fringe of the ummah that tends to be extreme and intolerant. Since those people are far more vocal than normal Muslims, we tend to overestimate their presence. They still are a huge problem, however, because of the popular support some of them enjoy.

    I think that fundamental problem we encounter when practicing any religion is the fact that we tend to view our religion as the objective truth. For us to call something an objective truth, we must have some way of testing it. But science has nothing to say one way or the other about religion. We cannot prove or disprove religion through objective methods, so we should not consider our beliefs to be the objective truth. Religion is a purely subjective experience: One person looks at a tree trunk and sees the Virgin Mary; another sees wood. One person reads the Qur’an and immediately hears a ring of truth and authenticity; another gets bored and picks up a different book. Each of us is different in innumerable ways, and one cookie cutter faith will not fit us all. To ignore our differences in temperament, worldview, and intelligence is to ignore our humanity. What works for me may not work for you. I am fine with that, and I’m not threatened by your choice to use other rituals and words.

    Tension arises when different religions feel threatened by each other, because each thinks their teaching is the absolute truth. This view inspires people to “help” other people by trying to convert them. Some feel so strongly that they know the absolute truth, that they will even convert others by force or coercion.

    Unfortunately, most people are born into their religion and have faith not because of deep introspection and personal trial-and-error, but are merely reduced to lab rats – going one way for the promise of cheese, avoiding one way because of the threat of electric shock.

    Are we really so foolish and utterly selfish that the only way to motivate us to do what is good is to bribe us with promises of heaven and scare us with threats of hell? Well, for the most part we are.

    Religion should be “bought” and “sold” – not forced down people’s throats. Show me what your faith has to offer and if I like it I can follow it. If not I’ll visit the next vendor.

    To sum up: To each his own so leave him the hell alone.

  29. Molisan Tono says:

    to a person named peter… you seems so afraid of truth to unvail sins.
    my son names Kefas… named by Indonesian text, meaning of “Cephas”… same name like you… Peter.

    my son got more guts than you to say about the truth. why we as Christian or sounds like wise, had to be afraid of telling the truth?

    Christian is not religion my friend. Christian is way of living in Christ.
    no where in world religions tell us what the truth is except Christ.

    so, objective truth? i believe accepting Christ is objecyive truth.

  30. Peter says:

    Molisan, although I’m not quite sure what you mean when you say: “you seem so afraid of the truth to unvail sins”.

    You can believe whatever you want to. Religion is a means to purify ones soul, and there are many ways to do that. If you choose to follow the example of Jesus, that is great – Jesus is an excellent role model for humanity.

    You also said: “my son got more guts than you to say about the truth”. If you accept Jesus, then perhaps you might follow his example and get rid of your aggression and ill-will. Jesus spent much of his time around sinners, yet he was always sweet and compassionate to even the worst of them; he would never take up a tone like the one you used in the quote above.

    I do apologize if I offended you; that was not my intention.

    In a way, your response illustrates my point beautifully: conflict arises when we treat our personal beliefs as the absolute truth. You see Christianity as the absolute truth, so you are quick to quarrel with anybody (like me) that you think is threatening or questioning your beliefs.

    I have faith that God will reveal himself to people in the way he chooses for each person. One may have a vision of Christ, another may have darshan of Rama. I have my own personal relationship with God, and I would hope other people do too. When we start treating God as something to be loved instead of feared, maybe in turn we will start treating our neighbors the same way.


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