National Pride

Nov 22nd, 2006, in News, by

Some believe that the national pride of Indonesia was insulted by the George Bush visit.

The high level of security provided by Indonesia for the visit of the US president had harmed the interests of the people of Bogor, where Bush visited, briefly, and had made Indonesia lose its pride in the eyes of the United States, says parliamentarian Fahri Hamzah of the Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS).

Indonesia was a big country, he said, big in both population and amount of natural resources, and the leaders of the nation should use this fact as a bargaining chip, and not bend over backwards for foreign leaders. Founding father of the nation, Mohammed Hatta, had stated that it were better the country be drowned at sea than let other powers abuse it, Hamzah said.

The security measures taken for Bush’s visit were over the top and had measurably caused losses for Bogor people, particularly traders and public transportation drivers, who were unable to work on the big day of Bush’s visit. What’s more the helipad that had been specially constructed for Bush’s helicopter had not even been used. He complained: detik

We made the helipad for him but he didn’t even use it, we were dictated to and this is a sign of our weakness internationally.


47 Comments on “National Pride”

  1. Tuan says:

    Jeff:

    yea that may be but at least Indonesia doesnt go around shooting people,

    No but at least the US population does not act like animals and rape defenseless Chinese folks. Again history class seems to escape you once again (Jakarta riots of ’98)

    and at least kids in indonesia respect their parents and do not dress up like little whores as what you see in the USA.

    For the most part, it is true but it is degrading due to outside influences, especially amongst the young people in Jakarta where drug use and promiscuity is high. Obviously you have not heard of the sexual paradise of Bali, Blok M (Jakarta) and Dolly (Surabaya). We in the US are not notorious for places like that and whoring our women so openly for tourist money. In America there is not ambiguity about what is right or wrong as there is in Indonesia mainly because they are driven by greed and sloth.

    Thats funny because when you travel to a foreign country you get jailed its still your ass you broke the law plain and simple. does the word Michael Fay ring a bell. incase you for got, he was 18 year old american who went to singapore got jailed and was cained, the us government could not do a damn accept talk to singaporean officials and simple asked them to maintain his rights.

    Yes I have and as I recall the US government did all they can to help out the dude. An A for effort, nonetheless.

    i doubt ever much that you actually travel international because if you did you would know that american government cant really do to whole hell of a-lot. and yes you just gave me a perfect example you mention also that the government will help if you caught by terrorist, you really think that to quto you “do you watch the news?” because if you did you would know that when several americans were held hostage by terrorist in iraq, they (the americans) begged for the United States Government to pull out in iraq. did they?.. noo, what happened ohh yea they were decapitated, as even the government mentioned that they do not deal with terrorist..

    Again the US government does make an effort to rescue its citizens. Not all attempts whether diplomatic or by force is successful. Nonetheless there is an effort on the part of government. As I recall there were a few that were successful (Jennifer Lynch)

    And yes I have traveled to places like the Middle East when I was teen when my father was working on oil and gas projects. I also went to an embassy school with other international students and hob nobed with the kids of the diplomats. I also attended one of the best university in the US where I had the opportunity to interact with international students and hear from their point of view.

    Remember what yo mama used to say “Be careful when you assume becuase it makes an ASS out of U and Me” 😉

    ~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim

  2. Tuan says:

    Jeff:

    ohh an taun i doubt very much that your an “Indonesian – american muslim” i doubt that have you actually even traveled to Indonesia and seen what its like? . just wondering now if you say your an indonesian american that usually means you immgrated out of Indonesia to america and obtained a citizenship, but if you say your parents had came from their then still doesn’t make you an “Indonesian american” as your american citizen with indonesian blood line only. so in other words you never obtain a citizenship for indonesia.. and FYI if you say “dual” then know this Indonesia does not acknowledge a dual citizen ship. so tell me how are you or in what way do you actually think that your american / indonesian citizen

    No I have never been to Indonesia. That is no secret. I was born and raised in the USA hence the “Indonesian-American”.. I am one of those hyphenated Americans ;).. kinda like “African-American” or “Chinese-American”. I do not have any Indonesian citizenship nor am I interested in it. My parents instilled in me that where I am born and raised is where I am from. So America is my homeland and for the most part this country has been good to me.

    EDIT: As I mentioned before, I have had a lot of contact with students overseas throughout college since my major is in the science field. some of them are indonesian students and they divulge an insight to their country outside of what is told in the media.

    ~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim

  3. Mohammed Khafi says:

    Tuan said:

    For the most part, it is true but it is degrading due to outside influences, especially amongst the young people in Jakarta where drug use and promiscuity is high. Obviously you have not heard of the sexual paradise of Bali, Blok M (Jakarta) and Dolly (Surabaya).

    Tuan, this is utter uninformed drivel. Have you ever been to Bali, Jakarta or Surabaya? There are issues with some young people with regard to sex and drugs but the numbers in relation to the population as a whole are really quite insignificant, much, much lower in fact than the problem in American cities and towns

    We in the US are not notorious for places like that and whoring our women so openly for tourist money. In America there is not ambiguity about what is right or wrong as there is in Indonesia mainly because they are driven by greed and sloth.

    We do not as you say whore our women for tourist money, never having been here, I don’t really see how you can make a stement like that. In America you hide the whoring behind escort services and the like, that sounds like ambiguity to me. Prostitution is illegal in all but two states, but in the Las Vegas Yellow Pages alone there are 7 whole pages of Escort and Entertainment services advertised.

    In America you also whore your women in Pornographic movies and Magazines, in so called fashion shows, and advertising.

    This attitude you display is one of the reasons that so many people outside of America, dislike America. Please put your own house in order before making disparaging remarks about ours.

    Peace

  4. Jeff says:

    Mohammed Khafi
    I agree with you, i’m an american but my wife is Indonesian, i just got back from Indonesia 4 months ago i like bandung a lot better just because the weather is more cooler then jakarta ;-). anyways i agree with you on everything you just said. a lot of foreigners do not like americans because we americans have bad attitudes, lots of people like at americans as bad attitudes,rich snobs,party type of people. i apologise to you for what disrespects tuan had mention. he makes these remarks as he does not understand how the rest of the world looks at americans, he has this idea that americans are liked around the world, which we are not. at least when i travel to foreign Countrys like Indonesia i’m very respectful to your culture,people and by the way i’m also a muslim :-). i’m still learning islam my wife is helping me on that.
    take care dude
    peace

  5. Tuan says:

    Mohammed Khafi,

    Tuan, this is utter uninformed drivel. Have you ever been to Bali, Jakarta or Surabaya?

    No, I haven’t. Yet my in-depth discussion with Indonesian expatriates point out that it is why some foreigners from every continent in the world come to Indonesia. Dolly from I know is one of the biggest whorehouses in SE Asia and sex trafficking in Bali is very high. Its is not my business what they do but as I like to say there are consequences to it which does not benefit Indonesia’s moral fabric.

    There are issues with some young people with regard to sex and drugs but the numbers in relation to the population as a whole are really quite insignificant, much, much lower in fact than the problem in American cities and towns

    I will not touch on this since we both do not have figures to back up. My knowledge is based on discussions I have had with Indonesian that point out that it is prevalent and steadily growing due to outside influences (our media). Look no further that Indonesian cinema is very “western” mainly because its geared towards the youth who aspire to be “western”. I tend to believe that cultures and traditions come and go when faced with a more influential culture. Take for example the Indonesian community in South Africa where Cape Malays do not speak a word of their ancestral tongue of Bahasa. But to be fair, the Indonesian decedents of Sri Lanka and Suriname still speak a version of Bahasa, and have remnants of the “motherland”

    We do not as you say whore our women for tourist money, never having been here, I don’t really see how you can make a stement like that.

    You can do a search on Indonesian matters and see various articles that allude to it.

    In America you hide the whoring behind escort services and the like, that sounds like ambiguity to me.

    For the most part those activities are crack down hard by the police and there is conscious effort to subdue it, unlike Indonesia.

    In America you also whore your women in Pornographic movies and Magazines, in so called fashion shows, and advertising.

    Same is in Indonesia.

    ~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim

  6. Jeff says:

    Tuan
    again your not understanding look how many rape cases came from the usa, hence Korean – american war, Vietnam war, war in iraq. you fail to see the truth be hind that in history. if you can not be respectful to Indonesia / Indonesians then maybe you should stop posting on this forum.

  7. Tuan says:

    Jeff:

    I agree with you, i’m an american

    I sometimes find it hard to believe with the amount of grammatical and spelling errors, which makes me think that English is not your first language or if you really are an American (Either that or your from ghetto or trailer park). A few is ok, but if it littered with a lot, then it does not look good.

    a lot of foreigners do not like americans because we americans have bad attitudes, lots of people like at americans as bad attitudes,rich snobs,party type of people. i apologise to you for what disrespects tuan had mention. he makes these remarks as he does not understand how the rest of the world looks at americans,

    To be honest, I and many other Americans do not care what others think of us. Its more of the case, the world needs us and looks up to us but will put up with our “attitudes”. In other words, it is them that have problem with their envy.

    i’m still learning islam my wife is helping me on that.

    FYI: If you converted for your wife, then you have turned to islam for the wrong reasons. As far as I know, Indonesian marriage law has a way of cornering men into converting to Islam, which makes me think whether their conversion is sincere. On the other hand, I know some who are sincere about their “reversion” but there are those who aren’t just to appease the wife.

    ~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim

  8. Tuan says:

    Jeff:

    again your not understanding look how many rape cases came from the usa, hence Korean – american war, Vietnam war, war in iraq.

    That is a very small minority. You are also alluding that the majority of the US soldiers partake in those activities, which also includes you since you say you are a former Marine (unless you also participated as well).

    if you can not be respectful to Indonesia / Indonesians then maybe you should stop posting on this forum.

    It’s a free world. 🙂

    ~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim

  9. Jeff says:

    tuan
    First of all i never raped anyone. second of some activity of rape does occur from time to time i’m merely showing that even rape happens in america reguarding your statement above. before you even mention a small minority check world statistics before you mention that. did you know that Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes. thats 683,00 forcible rapes occur every year, which equals 56,916 per month; 1,871 per day, 78 per hour; and 1.3 per minute and your saying a small minoirty. how do you figure a small account from that statistics? that information came from Sources:U.S. Department of Justice, 1994. However south africa does have the highest

  10. Jeff says:

    tuan
    i am an american and honestly i’m very bad with spelling i will not deny that and that i can’t. my spelling maybe off but should i care maybe. however do i care no not really. however i could take the time to actually correct it. ask me if i care. no not at all.

  11. Tuan says:

    Jeff:

    i am an american and honestly i’m very bad with spelling i will not deny that and that i can’t. my spelling maybe off but should i care maybe. however do i care no not really. however i could take the time to actually correct it. ask me if i care. no not at all.

    Its called presentation. The weight of what you say is also determined by its delivery.

    First of all i never raped anyone.

    Neither has the most of the US troops in history. Your previous statement make it seem that all US troops are very reckless with their sexual desires. Though, I sometimes wonder under what conditions you met your current wife?

    i’m merely showing that even rape happens in america reguarding your statement above.

    The statement I made about rape in the Indonesia was in reference to the Jakarta riots of 98 when there was the mass raped and pillage innocent Chinese citizens. Tell me, is there a moment in recent US history where a mass of people raped and pillage fellow citizens on the scale of the Jakarta 98 riots?

    ~Tuan Indonesian-American Muslim

  12. Jeff says:

    Taun
    WoW i must have an effect on you as to why you “I sometimes wonder under what conditions you met your current wife?” you must get off on that eh. for your information i met my wife back in 1970. i’m not hear to talk about my personal life, and with such do respect leave my wife out of this.. the thing about the military taun that you will never understand (because you are not in the service) is that we (military) may have to be called to war which no one likes having to go and we would not go out to say that we are the best. its sicking to know that people state that we are the best because we have the weaponry that can kill more people. let me ask you this question taun, how would you feel being active duty order to go to a foreign country now knowning that a good chance that you/your partner / the enemy will no longer see their family could be a wife a husband son daughter ect. now i ask you just knowning that your taking human life and just how bad it truly is, your proud that our country has the ability to kill? war its self is a find a seek game both are being hunted. i just want to tell you a little true story and hope you can see from my point of view, in 1965 i was 18 years of age when i enlisted in the marine corps, i was deployed to vietnam in march. i was scared along with rest of the battalion i never had to fire a weapon especially an m-14 assault rifle to a moving target, my best friend took fire watch when we were it by what was called front national pour la Liberation which were insurgent fighting against south vietnam we had called them Victor Charlie and some called the Charile. as we cleared the area my best friend that i grew up with was shoot in chest slowly dying, are command leader told us to move on to our route leaving my best friend to die alone. and you know what it felt like leaving a family member to die alone. when we rotated back around the world American cilivilans had split at us calling us baby killers, i have two prosthetic legs because i saved my battalion from an incomming grenade. the federal government did nothing for me, i was denied several times for the GI Bill my parents help me contacted a lawyer after 2 years of fighting with the federal government i finally got my GI Bill,combat pay. by 1969 i traveled to Indonesia and met this beautiful lady who soon became my wife in 1973. anyhow thats my story. it hurts when you hear people say comments about wanting to concer another country as what you mentioned about the american flag yesterday it takes sacrfice to do the stuff we done

  13. Mohammed Khafi says:

    Tuan,

    If I talk to expats in Indonesia, I get a very strange view of their country and their customs, luckily I have travelled widely and know the difference.

    I would suggest that the expat students that you talk to are from a very restricted socio economic class in Indonesia, hardly representative of the populous as a whole. Please do not base your judgements of Indonesia on solely on their opinions and views, the same can be said for the internet. The vast majority of Indonesians have no access to this medium, those who do are generally from the town and cities and make up a small percentage of the general population.

    Tuan you said to Jeff:

    I sometimes find it hard to believe with the amount of grammatical and spelling errors, which makes me think that English is not your first language or if you really are an American (Either that or your from ghetto or trailer park). A few is ok, but if it littered with a lot, then it does not look good.

    Again I would repeat what I said in my earlier posting, please put your own house in order first, your posts are also littered with grammatical errors, spelling is ok, but there are spellcheckers which can deal with that aren’t there? Jeff has never professed to be a highly educated man, he is somebody who just wants to comment here and it seems to me that he does it with respect for everybody.

    You however have reinforced the comment that I made earlier about why so many people dislike America by your attitude and your comments, such as:

    To be honest, I and many other Americans do not care what others think of us. Its more of the case, the world needs us and looks up to us but will put up with our “attitudes”. In other words, it is them that have problem with their envy.

    Nobody envies egotism, arrogance, and rudeness. You profess to be an Indonesian-American Muslim, yet do not exhibit the good attributes of any of them, maybe you should relabel yourself?

  14. Pakmantri says:

    tuan said:

    We in the US are not notorious for places like that and whoring our women so openly for tourist money. In America there is not ambiguity about what is right or wrong as there is in Indonesia mainly because they are driven by greed and sloth.

    Yeah right, apparently you live in a very sheltered life in the suburb protected by your mommy. 😀
    Have you ever heard Girls gone wild saga?
    Or have you ever go to New Orleans during Mardi Grass?
    Or have you ever go to Miami or Panama City during the spring break?
    Or have you ever go to Vegas, Reno, or Atlantic city?
    Or have you ever try to Google Escort Service with any city name in the US? Maybe you have secretly ………. 😀
    Or party at L.A’s or other big cities clubs?
    I have, have to try everything once in life; I bet you haven’t, mommy won’t let you! 😀

    Although, tuan have a master degree and Jeff maybe not, I have more respect in Jeff than tuan. Because Jeff is real, he’s walk the walk, and a real patriot. He knows the strength of USA but he also acknowledge the weakness’ that it has. Jeff is the regular American folks that I have met in the US not a wannabe.

    I am tired of this bubble head …………. called tuan.

    To Jeff, Semper Fi my friend.

    Peace.

    P.S. Can’t wait to see his rant ………. rotflmao.

  15. Pakmantri says:

    Mohamad Kafi said:

    You profess to be an Indonesian-American Muslim, yet do not exhibit the good attributes of any of them, maybe you should relabel yourself?

    Exactly what I was going to say.
    I suggest, Not Indonesian – wannabe American, kind of Muslim.

  16. Pakmantri says:

    tuan said:

    If you converted for your wife, then you have turned to islam for the wrong reasons. As far as I know, Indonesian marriage law has a way of cornering men into converting to Islam, which makes me think whether their conversion is sincere. On the other hand, I know some who are sincere about their “reversion” but there are those who aren’t just to appease the wife

    Here is my profile on you,
    You have no culture because you are neither Indonesian nor American. The reason I said it is because you don’t know jack about Indonesia and although you were born in the US, most of your childhood was spent in the middle east and in the embassy schools never in an American school in the US, therefore, you don’t really know the real American folks.
    To compensate this lack of culture and identity you learn Islam, so that at least you can be called a Muslim.
    Do you think this is a right reason? 😀 (I am just saying, hope it is not true)

    Remember these:
    Don’t judge other or you’ll be judge.
    When you point a finger to other there are three fingers pointing back at you.

    Jeff got married in 1973, therefore, he has been a Muslim even before you were conceived and yet in his own humble words he said “I am still learning Islam ……”
    I think that’s what Islam is all about humble and not “takabur”, and the learning process will never end till the day you die, because God’s wisdoms are too big for a mere mortal to understand them all in a life time.

    Peace.

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