Israeli Aircraft
Oct 12th, 2006, in News, by PatungThe FPI, Islam Defenders’ Front, are protesting apparent plans by the Defence department to buy Israeli aircraft.
On the 9th dozens of FPI men protested outside the Defence department office in Jakarta over reports that the ministry of defence plans to buy drone aircraft (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, UAV) from Israel.
We reject it if the Defence department really are going to buy planes from Israel because Israel is a colonialist nation. Our constitution forbids colonialism in any form.
(Kita menolak jika Dephan benar-benar ingin membeli pesawat dari Israel. Sebab Israel adalah bangsa penjajah. UUD kita melarang penjajahan di dunia dalam bentuk apa pun.)
The FPI claims that a ministerial letter, No. Skep/723/m/iX/2006, dealing with the planned purchase of the aircraft, says that the planes will be bought from a Philippino company, called “Kital Philippines Corp.”, for a price of US$6 million each. However FPI investigations into the matter have shown that the company in question sells food and drink, not weaponry or planes. Therefore they accused the Defence department of attempting to fool the public and conceal the fact that the aircraft were in fact being bought from Israel.
If this is true it means the minister (Juwono Sudarsono) is trying to deceive the public. This could be reported to the police, but we’ll wait for an answer from the minister.
(Kalau ini benar, berarti Menhan telah melakukan penipuan terhadap publik. Ini bisa dilaporkan ke kepolisian. Tapi kita akan tunggu dulu jawaban dari Menhan.)
said a Front Pembela Islam man, Awid.
Three FPI men were received by ministry staff and they delivered a letter of their complaints. After that they dispersed.
18th October
The Jakarta Post has picked up on the story and reports that members of the House of Representatives defence commission are urging the government to be clear and open in its procurement of the drones. Djoko Susilo of the National Mandate Party (PAN), who first spoke out about the irregularities, said the Defense Ministry had acted unprofessionally by trying to get the drones from the wrong source, the Philippines.
We have carried out an investigation and found out that the company from which we will get the UAV’s is in fact a food and beverage company based in Manila.
Djoko then distributed information on the company, Kital Philippines, which described the firm as a vendor of food and beverages, juice concentrate, salt, toiletries and skin care products. The company has annual sales ranging from $1 million to $2.5 million.
Minister of Defence Juwono had earlier said that the Defence Ministry planned to purchase the drones from an Israeli company, saying that the UAVs would then be assembled in a workshop in the Philippines.
A recent media report said that a team of Indonesian military (TNI) officers had gone to Israel to negotiate a price for the drones.
Suripto of the Prosperous Justice Party (PKS) also criticized the government for not consulting the House defence commission about buying the planes. He accused the Defense Ministry of trying to conceal the fact that it aimed to get the drones from Israel. He said:
Such cover-ups are common practice when Israeli companies are involved.
Continued…..
Juwono Sudarsono says the airplanes were bought without taking into account where they originated from. In any case, he says, Israel was a country whose people follow an Abrahamic religion, like Islam, so there was no problem.
He added that the drones had been bought according to tendering procedures. Forty-two companies had taken part in the bidding and Kital Philippines Corp, the food vendor, had managed to beat out ESL Ventures from the Netherlands and IRKUT of Russia, among others. The planes are said to be intended for patrol of the Straits of Malacca, an area prone to pirate attacks.
22nd October
It has been announced formally that Indonesia has purchased “Searcher MK.II UAVs from Israel Aircraft Industries Ltd. (IAI). Somewhat contrary to the report above the latest news, from Globes business news in Israel, says that Indonesia published an international tender for the supply of the UAVs and received offers from 42 companies from all parts of the world. IAI, ESL Ventures, and Airkot of Russia went forward to the final bidding stage. Indonesian teams visited Israel several times last year to assess the capabilities of UAVs built by IAI. They appear to have been impressed.
Searcher MK.II UAV.
27th October
Four drones will be bought from Bina Putra Sejati, a subsidiary of Kital Philippines Corp. Indonesian armed forces chief Joko Suyanto defended the purchase, saying:
We are just buying planes that are licensed by Israel, not dealing directly with them. So I think what we are doing is fine.
45 Comments on “Israeli Aircraft”
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Tony says:
FPI is right and should propose to buy product and inventions from Saudi Arabia only. From aircrafts, to vaccines, from drugs to electronic components, cars, clothes, processors, wires, specs, shoes, surgical instruments, etc.
I hope they will never find out that most of the vaccines that keep them alive have been discovered by Jews! -
TheWrathOfGrapes says:
Looks like very few places where Indonesia cannot buy planes from, or for that matter, do business with. Countries which colonised others include the US, Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Japan and of course Holland.
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Andrew says:
Ay ay ay, (most of) the things we eat, wear, watch, listen to, use, drive, ride – you name it – come from (former) colonialists.
FPI probably doesn’t realize that. They should think more before they speak next time, it’s embarassing 😀
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Cannot forget the Incas and the Hittites, the Germans or the Russians come to that. I think we should also include the Imperialists for balance; the Mongol’s, the Empire of Alexander the Great, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Persian Empire, the Roman’s, the Byzantine Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Chinese.
Not so many place left to go shopping now, . . . well there’s alway Singapore!
Peace
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Mohd Khafi – you just reminded me that Indonesia is also a coloniser – West Timor. Gee, Indonesia should not be doing business with Indonesia!
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European colonization of Timor started in the 16th century. Although the Portuguese claimed the island of Timor in 1520, the Dutch (in the form of the Dutch East India Company) settled West Timor in 1640, forcing the Portuguese out to East Timor. The subsequent collapse of the company meant that in 1799 the area returned to official Dutch rule. Finally, in 1914 the border between East and West Timor was finalized by a treaty between Holland and Portugal that was originally signed in 1859 and modified in 1893.
Japan conquered the island as part of World War II in early 1942. August 17, 1945 saw Indonesian Independence declared, just three days after the Japanese surrender. The Dutch returned but faced a war with republican guerrillas, the eventual outcome of which was the proclamation of Republic of Indonesia in 1950, which made West Timor a part of Nusa Tenggarra Timur province.
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Molisan Tono says:
Khafi, your first post doesn’t really quite mind breaking…
“ignorant” is too polite for FPI dumb ass ppl to understand the word… you should use IDIOT… coz when you say it, they will react and may be someday they will repent.
look, what is the correlation between buy a product from imperialis country and the imperialism??? I believe none…
this ppl from FPI, way too much concern things they don’t need to concern of. they just simply don’t have any job to improve their family, so they took the job to annoy and bother other. what a stupid ey????
it’s true if there is manipulative act, police should investigate. but it’s only if there is one… not because FPI think Israel is imperialis country… what a dork…
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Hassan says:
Indonesia should do business with former colonialists, but NOT current ones. speaking about colonialism, most countries in the word were once colonialists but they gave up on that idea. they are, shall we say, repented colonialist. but not Israel. they are doing to the Palestinian what the nazis had done to them back then. shame on them, shame on those who defended a country which were built by terror (to the local Arabs, and also their british ruler back then), and preserved by terror, as we see them do every single day.
if we buy something from a regime based on terror like Israel, it means we indirectly support their finance, and ultimately their existence.
lets reject violence, whether it is done by our own countrymen like FPI, or some other country like Israel. it’s seems odd to see some people who chants anti violence, they insults their own countrymen who commits violence, but not a foreign country (Israel) who do even worst kinds of violence (murders, bombings, buldozing homes, etc) every single day.
when it comes to violence, Israel is worst than FPI, RMS, GPM or any of our domestic actors combined. none of us do what they did.
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Hassan, I think Israel annexed Palestine before Indonesia annexed Timor. In fact, I think Indonesia is the last coloniser.
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TheWrathOfGrapes: it’s not about who’s the first and who’s the last, but about the ones currently colonialising other. Indonesia currently colonialises no other nation. we can’t say the same about Israel.
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Hassan,
What about Papua? there are plenty of people in the province and internationally who feel that we are colonisers there, after all, it is quite distinct geographically and ethnically from the rest of Indonesia.
From Wikipedia:
During the 1950s the Dutch government began to prepare Netherlands New Guinea for full independence and allowed elections in 1959; an elected Papuan council, the New Guinea Council (Nieuw Guinea Raad) took office on April 5, 1961. The Council decided on the name of West Papua, a national emblem, a flag called the Morning Star or Bintang Kejora, and a national anthem; the flag was first raised “” next to the Dutch flag “” on December 1, 1961. However, Indonesia threatened with an invasion, after full mobilisation of it’s army, by August 15, 1962, after receiving military help from the Soviet Union. Under strong pressure of the United States government (under the Kennedy administration) the Dutch, who were prepared to resist an Indonesian attack, attended diplomatic talks. On October 1, 1962, the Dutch handed over the territory to a temporary UN administration (UNTEA). On May 1, 1963, Indonesia took control. The territory was renamed West Irian and then Irian Jaya. In 1969 Indonesia, under the 1962 New York Agreement, was required to organize a plebiscite to seek the consent of the Papuans for Indonesian rule. This so called Act of Free Choice (Pepera) resulted, under strong threats and intimidations of the Indonesian military, in a 100% vote for continued Indonesian rule.
And transmigrasi to Papua is little different than the Israeli settlments in the occupied territories is it? except transmigrasi is government sponsored.
We need to admit our own faults before highlighting those of others.
Peace
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Mohammed Khafi: the most important point to note here is the common conception that the territory of the republic of Indonesia is those areas previously under dutch occupation, regardless of what the dutch initially planned for that area. hey, the dutch planned not to give us independence in 1945, they were forced to admit our independence in 1949 after insuing fighting and strong insurgence by Indonesians. and they planned to establish a federal state here. the point is, history prooved that what the colonialiser had planned doesn’t really matter. what mattered was that the accepted notion that territories of ex-colonialist dutch is also Indonesian’s.
one other difference between Indonesia and Israel is that Indonesia didn’t systematically eradicate the local populace, as Israel systematically killed, imprisoned, and buldozed Palestinian people and property. there is really no comparison between the two, Indonesia and Israel.
lastly, the reason why we must not support that Zionist state in anyway (finance, moral support, etc) is because they are killing Muslims almost everyday. they are killing your brothers every day khafi, and we must look the other way and focus on our own problems instead??? you’re asking us to not critisize them and lets critisize ourselves??? yeah, i’ll critisize ourselves for not doing enough to help are brothers in vein.
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territories of ex-colonialist dutch is also Indonesian’s
Even though they don’t belong to us?, isn’t that just like the attitude of our former colonial rulers?
Indonesia didn’t systematically eradicate the local populace, as Israel systematically killed, imprisoned, and buldozed Palestinian people and property.
Here is what some international reports have said:
A former Dutch territory, resource-rich Papua was fully incorporated into Indonesia in 1969 under a highly controversial United Nations-supervised ballot involving only 1025 voters in a region with a population of almost a million at the time.
However, the report says most indigenous Papuans still want independence and that a build-up of Indonesian troops in recent months has been accompanied by new abuses and repression.
“Military operations have led to thousands of deaths in Papua and continue to cost lives,” it says.
Indonesian troops were also responsible for burning 371 homes in Puncak Jaya and stealing livestock at the end of last year, it said. Soldiers raped at least one woman during the operation, unnamed witnesses said. More than 6000 displaced Papuans were said to remain in hiding in the jungle.
And these are just the recent reports Hassan, this has been going on since the 1960’s. Still want to say that we are less guilty than the Israelis?, we may not have the technical abilty to inflict damage to the same extent, but we are not guilt free.
I dislike the Israeli government as much as you Hassan for what they are doing, but this trouble in Palestine has been going on for years, somebody has to say, ok enough is enough.
Please open your eyes to the reality of the world, don’t just parrot what others tell you, do some research yourself, and you will see that the Muslims in Palestine are far from guilt free in this matter.
Allah says in Al Quran:
“But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs. “42:43
Just think of the rewards from Allah to be the party who says enough is enough!
Peace
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Mohammed Khafi: saying enough is enough wont stop Israel from killing our Muslim brothers. so what do you suggest we do? forgive them and look the other way as if it never happened? you know that those Jews NEVER wanted a peaceful solution that benefited both parties. they wanted peace with terms that they decide, terms that only benefited themselves. I believe you’re full aware of that.
can you come up with means that can stop the killing of human beings there??
“the common conception that the territory of the republic of Indonesia is those areas previously under dutch occupation”
khafi, that is the method used to determine our nation’s territory. how else would we know which islands are Indonesia’s and which ones are the phillipine’s, Malaysian’s, or thailand’s?? -
/// the most important point to note here is the common conception that the territory of the republic of Indonesia is those areas previously under dutch occupation, regardless of what the dutch initially planned for that area. ///
Hassan – that was a bit rich. Bravo, you just handed SBY vast territories of the world for Indonesia’s grabbing. Some of the territories previously under Dutch occupation include, Malacca, Formosa (Taiwan), Ceylon (Sri Lanka), Suriname, Guyana, Brazil, Tobago and Virgin Islands.
On a separate note, isn’t Iraq currently occpied by the US, Japan, Korea, UK and many other countries. So, who should Indonesia do business with? I can think of only a few – North Korea, Cuba, Uganda, Libya, etc.
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Hassan,
You said:
can you come up with means that can stop the killing of human beings there??
Allah has already given you the answer Hassan, forgiveness:
“But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs. “42:43
We have to break the circle of hate somewhere, who is more noble in the sight of Allah, those who forgive, or those who continue to commit sin?
A simple act like this could change the way the whole world see’s Islam, whilst I don’t think it would make much difference to American public opinion, I am sure that it would hold huge sway in Europe, including the UK, which is much more sympathetic to Islam anyway. Don’t you see the advantages in that?
You also said:
“the common conception that the territory of the republic of Indonesia is those areas previously under dutch occupation”
As TheWrathOfGrapes has pointed out this is complete nonsense, we cannot and should not justify our actions on the injustices of the past, if we do that we are no better than the Dutch who colonised us.
The only reason that our past and present leaders wanted Papua, is for its mineral wealth, we are behaving no better than America in the Middle East protecting their interests in Oil by doing this. What benefit have the indigenous peoples of Papua gained from our presence, where is all of their wealth going, it certainly isn’t going to help them is it?
Peace
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Bradlymail says:
Mohammad Khafi – i, be with you and agree with you comments. Keep it up brother !
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TheWrathOfGrapes: you sure take other people’s words literally. I meant that Indonesia’s territories are ex-dutch territories here, in this archipelago, not accross the globe.
that is how countries who were colonialised determined the scope of their territories, Malaysia uses ex-british colonialist’s map to determine their boundaries, the phillipines uses their ex-spanish colonialist’s map, and Indonesia uses our dutch ex-occupier’s map to mark our territories. how else would we do it? using our old sriwijaya and majapahit map?? get real!if you didn’t believe me just ask any expert on international relations.
about Iraq, the only real occupier there is the U.S. as they are the one who had real control there, the other nations are just america’s lackeys and henchmen. and yes, i do advocate that we should not do any economic dealings with the U.S. because the proceeds they gain will then be used to strengthen their military, and they will use that military to oppress other people accross the globe. but given our dependency on the U.S. i doubt if our government will want to cut trade ties with them.
Mohammed Khafi: you and me may be able to forgive the Israeli, because the Jews had done nothing to us. but our brothers in palestine and lenanon who had lost relatives, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and properties can they easily do that?? without the Israeli give nothing in return?? not even a state??
try forgive some people who had killed your mother and childrens. and the thing is, the killers didn’t even asked for forgiveness. had Israel ever asked of any forgiveness from the Muslim world??
Bradlymail: you’re a real cheerleader aren’t you? how cute..
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Mohammed Khafi: after thinking about it I need to modify my analogy, how about some people broke into your house, killed your visiting mother, wife and son, took your house, chase away you and your daughters out from your home, took away your living, leaving you as a beggar (the Palestinians are literal beggars for foreign aid these days). and the police (the U.S.)choose to side with the attackers. can you forgive them? at least they should return part of your home and give your living back.
again, you and me may be able to forgive the Israeli, because the Jews had done nothing to us. but we can’t speak for our brothers who had lost everything in that area through Israeli’s crimes. maybe (as small as the chances maybe) the Palestinians can forgive the Israeli unconditionally, but that doesn’t guarantee Israel will stop the killings, that doesn’t guarantee Israel will give the Palestinians their nation back, that doesn’t guarantee Israel will let the paletinians be independent. forgiveness wouldn’t change the Jews from being cunning.
peace must come from both ways.
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Hassan,
I am not suggesting that the Palestinians give up the struggle for Palestine. What I am saying is that the rest of the world would be more likely to support the Palestinian cause if they forgave the Israeli’s for the sins commited against them, stopped the terrorists in their communities from sending misguided suicide bombers to kill innocent civilians, and cleaned themselves of terrorist organisations and extremists. Once they have proved that they are capable of behaving in a civilised manner, the rest of the world would back them against the Israeli’s and America, and assist in a just settlement of the land issue.
As I said earlier we have to break the circle of hate somewhere, who is more noble in the sight of Allah, those who forgive, or those who continue to commit sin?
Peace
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I meant that Indonesia’s territories are ex-dutch territories here, in this archipelago, not accross the globe.
Hassan – is Malacca near enough for you? It is just across Sumatra, and certainly part of this archipelago.
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Hassan,
I meant that Indonesia’s territories are ex-dutch territories here
So a thief may steal from a thief and that makes it ok?
that is how countries who were colonialised determined the scope of their territories
Using that logic Hassan, India now has the right to rule Pakistan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Sri Lankar, Malaysia, Singapore, Sabah and Sarawak. . . Shsssssh! keep quiet, don’t anybody tell them!
Peace
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Hassan what I have seen so far your comments are full of bullsh*ts and nonsenses. You are the cheerleader for FPI and MMI- kolot and munafiq.
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Bradlymail: what I said was things that i perceived as the truth, whether those things are actually correct or not that’s what I wanted to find out, and the ultimate truth is with Allah SWT alone.
I wanted to stress once more that I have no affiliations with any radical groups, whether it’s FPI, MMI, or any others. any similiarities between my comments and theirs is purely coincidental. and believe me, if you judge my fair enough, you’ll see that my comments are far from similiar to theirs. i do not support the use of unjustified violence.
on the mean time, the term “cheerleader” are sometimes used to depict a person who does not have an oppinion of their own, just following or supporting what others had said. like you for example. how often have you said “i agree with what he/she said” or “I’m with you” without actually stating your own original oppinion regarding those matters.
becareful with your words, “kolot and munafiq”. you could be spreading fitna (while you are fasting). i might not be the kind of person you think I am.
TheWrathOfGrapes: please open our history books once again, you will see that following the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo the old world of the VOC was reconstituted on British terms, which meant that Ceylon and South Africa, together with the whole of Malaya and every fort and factory in India, became part of the British Empire.
malacca and the rest of the malayan peninsula (plus sabah and sarawak)was a british territory. now, those territories are Malaysian, not ours. see the logic? “that is how countries who were colonialised determined the scope of their territories”.
Mohammed Khafi: you do know that once india, pakistan, and Bangladesh are one nation, india. pakistan then decides to claim independence from india, and the nation of pakistan is then further split into two when Bangladesh wanted their own independence. ceylon is always a kingdom of it’s own, and the indian doesn’t seem to take interest in controlling that territory and then allowed them to establish their own nation, sri lanka.
myanmar, the malayan peninsula, Singapore, sabah and sarawak are clearly out of the question, as they are not located in the indian sub continent. they are not even in the same region as india, as india is located in the south of asia. while the others you mentioned belonged to south east asia.
Mohammed Khafi: I believe you do know that there is a long standing offer by the Arab league that the rest of the Arab world will forgive the Jews and acknowledge the existance of Israel (and their rights as a nation) IF the Jews give the Palestinians a state with east jerusalem as it’s capital.
now, how more generous (and forgiving) could the Arabs be, right? but you know what? the Jews did not take that offer. they wanted to do things on their own terms, own their own timetable. and did you see any independent Palestinian state there? a state not dependent on the pity of Israel and international aid? a state with east jerusalem with it’s capital? a state not attacked daily by invading Israeli?
you see khafi, the Arabs have offered forgiveness, the Jews simply don’t want to take it! they are just as arrogant as their forefathers were. they don’t want peace, they want control.
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Ali says:
Hassan, have you ever heard of the complete story from the other side?
Your comment is full of bias, and I don’t blame you for that – but for the sake of your sanity, check it out (don’t ask me where).
You do sound more bitter than the Arabs themselves!
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Ali: check it out where? foxnews? cnn? cnbc? no thanks, your regular tv channels (as you apparently watched them regularly) are owned by the Jews, can it be more biassed than that?
ali, Muslims are brothers. I bet you will be as bitter as I am if someone killed your own brother. and they wanted to kill your other brothers.
btw, I’m curious to know the “the complete story from the other side”. just don’t give me any more “collateral damage”, “Israel had the right to exist” or “Israel had the right to defend itself” hogwash. I had enough of that and i found those lies to be offensive towards my intelligence.
Mohammed Khafi: i do agree with your statement “stopped the terrorists in their communities from sending misguided suicide bombers to kill innocent civilians, and cleaned themselves of terrorist organisations and extremists”
but i found it hard to believe that the Palestinians are willing to do that after all the things the IsraelI had done to them. they are humans after all, they wanted justice and balanced actions. what you said are good on paper, but not on the field. without balanced actions by both parties, peace will be hard to attain.
it’s easy for us to say “forgiveness”, but hard for the Palestinians to do that without justice being done first.
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Hassan, if i offended you, I would like to apologise to you. Why i always using these words “i agreed”….or…..”I’m with you” because i no need to explain, elobrate or repeat the comments what other writers already said. For example, I always supporting Mohammed Khafi because my belief, policy and his opinion are the same as mine. so i no need to elaborate or repeat what Mohammed Khafi said anymore with his comments, it’s represent my mouth.. even though, personally i do not know him. anyway peace brother!
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Hassan, I have to mention that I find it funny that a lot of my Muslim Arab friends aren’t as bitter as you are. I am relieved that they are actually very objective – God bless them all.
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Oigal says:
foxnews is owned by JEWS?? Where do you get your information Hassan???
Its part of the Murdock group and he is as Catholic as you get.. touch too right wing for me but neverless do try not to repeat the mindless clap trap put out by the hate merchants..
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Andrew says:
Well, we have an Arab wannabe here.
Comment on “Israeli Aircraft”.
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Not only are FPI ignorant of their own professed religion, but after a statement like:
it would appear that they are ignorant of world history and even the history of their own country?
As to the matter of the the ministry deceiving the public, that surely does deserve investigation if it is true.
I would be more concerned about the fact that we are willing to spend USD 6,000,000 on little more than model aircraft. Firstly where on earth do we need such high tech surveillance equipment. Where is the threat so high to our national integrity that we can warrant spending such sums, and secondly, do we not have the technical ability and skills to manufacture such items ourselves?
Peace