Swiss Minaret Ban Outrage
Dec 1st, 2009, in News, by Patung
Indonesian government and religious leaders defend religious freedom for Swiss Muslims.
Leader of Indonesia’s largest Muslim organisation, Nahdlatul Ulama (PBNU), KH Hasyim Muzadi, said of the recent referendum vote in Switzerland to forbid the construction of new minarets on mosques
It’s regrettable, it shows the Swiss are not tolerant about religious freedom.
The man reputed to be the 18th most influential Muslim figure in the world, and the leader of the august World Council on Religions for Peace (WCRP) said the NU would send a note to the Swiss embassy in Jakarta asking for an explanation of the matter.
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Marty Natalegawa, joined in protesting: thejakartapost
We are deeply disappointed by the Swiss decision, which is contradictory to its image as an inclusive and tolerant nation
On 14th October 2009, Swiss ambassador to Indonesia, Bernardino Regazzoni, had informed both the Indonesian government and the NU about the upcoming vote, and assured both that the Swiss government strongly opposed the plan to ban minarets.
Just over 57% of those who turned out voted ‘Yes’, with a majority in 22 out of 26 cantons. The proposal was put forward by Switzerland’s largest party, the opposition hard-right Swiss People’s Party (SVP), as a supposed measure against Islamization, while the Swiss government opposed it. antara
147 Comments on “Swiss Minaret Ban Outrage”
-
andy says:
ditto my friend….this shows it is personal. If not I didn’t know you were a closet muslim, you’re usually as critical of Islam as I am.
-
bas says:
I don’t especially like Swiss but that country treats its minorities far better than Indonesia does… and is far more democratic too.
How can those hypocrites idiots dare giving lessons to that country?!…
Are they saying something against Saudi Arabia where any non Muslim item such as a bible is strictly prohibited in the country?
Those corrupted officials seriously need a brain and start to learn decency. -
wong cilik says:
vijay
It’s something of a miracle that the mosque, the largest in Europe, stands in Rome at all. It took the blessing of Pope John Paul II for it to be built.
aduh, malu aku, I am so busy helping my Christian friends preparing some decorations for upcoming Christmas makan – makan while i am googling it.
my google said there is no mosque in vatican but in Rome yes, and vatican is independent state. is it?
to be fair i think saudi arabia even though their citizen 100% moslem but they should allow church to be build to accommodate millions of temporary foreign worker from philippines,India, europe and america as long as not inside mecca and medina.
because moslem holy cities actually just mecca and medina.
well done Rome, whenever there is Will there is Rome
-
ET says:
Yes we can not wait to see how Indian will turn a Paradise Island become another Slumdog Island of India because more than 300 million poor Indian is ready to flood Bali.
It’s already being flooded by Javanese Muslims now, some of which even seemed to enjoy bombing the place twice with the approval of a lot – even 20% according to a survey a couple of years ago – of the members of their faith.
The millions of Balinese all over Indonesia will then have to go back to their island,
Millions??? How many millions?
Not to speak about all of those resources they needed from java, including electricity, rice etc.
As to electricity you have a point. If the Balinese were clever they should manage their own power supply for which they have the geothermal means and no longer be dependent on javanese mismanagement which causes constant interruptions.
As to rice didn’t you know that Java also has to import rice? So where does the rice they export to Bali come from?
And besides, if the tax money generated by tourism wouldn’t be siphoned away to Jakarta they could easily look themselves for the resources they need from abroad.
-
rima says:
Mas wong cilik:
you wrote:
why doesn’t the government of vatican allow Rome’s 5000 moslems to build even small mosque on its soil, when we have permitted the Christians to build thousands of church across our count
I think you need to get your facts straight. The government of Vatican doesn’t have anything to do with whatever is built in Rome. The government of Italy does.
I just came back from Rome and Vatican last month, and the 5000 Muslims are in Rome, not Vatican.
Vatican city’s population is just under 1000, the whole thing is just 0,4 square kilometers and there are no muslims in Vatican city, just priests and other religious figures of the Catholic religion, so of course there are no mosques, why should a state with no Muslims, only 1000 people and an area of 0,4 square kilometers have a mosque on it?
The Italian government has already been gracious enough to let erect the biggest mosque in Rome. If you expect a mosque in Vatican City, it’s like Christians expecting to see a Church in Mecca. C’est impossible, non?
You should read more. If you have no access to libraries, at least google things in order not to confirm our generalization that indeed you guys are ignorant.
Here are some facts and figures about the Holy See otherwise known as Vatican City that I have compiled for your enjoyment:
http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/places/countries/country_vaticancity.html
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/vatican-city-facts.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City
http://www.thereareplaces.com/guidebook/pdest/vtci.htm -
mbak rima, you are so kind, on behalf of unreliable google and the government of Indonesia for never provide enough libraries for its citizen. i ask you apologize.
yes vatican is small, and 100% of its citizen is catholic.
saudi is bigger but 100% of its citizen is moslem.if they can change all non moslem foreign worker in their country to moslem worker than they are not entitle to provide church, same as vatican.
or in democratic way, ask the non moslem foreign worker to choose, They are given the chance to have something to eat and priveleged enough to live a comfortable life for what they get from working in saudi but they must accept that saudi is moslem country where they will not provided church but still allow to practice their religion at home.
or choose to work in other place/ other islamic countries where building a church is not an issue
-
sighjay says:
Ahh, wong cilik, there are many non-Moslem foreign workers in Saudi Arabia. Once again you seem rather loose with the facts. Much of the commercial, industrial and military life of the Kingdom is run by thousands of non-Moslem. I know more than a few who’ve worked there over the years, and whilst the Kingdom benefits from their work (and they benefit from the salaries of course) they are offered no freedom in law to worship as they wish, at home or otherwise.
I’m guessing, following your logic, that the Swiss Muslim community made the decision to live in Catholic Switzerland, so really, they have no right to complain. Case closed if we apply your ‘democratic way’.
-
mbak rima, you are so kind, on behalf of unreliable google and the government of Indonesia for never provide enough libraries for its citizen. i ask you apologize.
Dikasih tau yang bener kok ya ngeyel..
yes vatican is small, and 100% of its citizen is catholic.
saudi is bigger but 100% of its citizen is moslem.Mas wong cilik, In saudi arabia as sighjay have mentioned, there are MANY MANY non-Moslems, they are immigrants or migrant workers. Indonesians, Filipinas, Indians and of course, your average white guys who are usually bosses or advisors in their multinational companies and even some are employed by King Fahd himself (I know a brit and a german who worked for King Fahd)
if they can change all non moslem foreign worker in their country to moslem worker than they are not entitle to provide church, same as vatican.
Ok, I do not get what you mean in this paragraph. I dont think anybody can ‘change’ anybody. Or do you mean convert? Nope, the migrant workers still follow their own beliefs.
or in democratic way, ask the non moslem foreign worker to choose, They are given the chance to have something to eat and priveleged enough to live a comfortable life for what they get from working in saudi but they must accept that saudi is moslem country where they will not provided church but still allow to practice their religion at home.
or choose to work in other place/ other islamic countries where building a church is not an issue
Touche, mas. Touche. That’s what the Swiss government and other governments are giving to Moslems coming in their country, the freedom to choose, yet they ALWAYS demand for more, for ‘equal rights’ and the ‘freedom of religion’ in which it is always granted because as you know, modern/western countries are democratic and they cannot do what the Arabs do, which is to forcefully impose their ways to all people, so that is why you will see churches, temples, synagoges and other places of worship in all these countries, but there must be a limit of course. Jangan dikasih jari minta tangan, dikasih tangan minta hati, dikasih hati minta semua-mua.
And do you know why there are more percentage of Moslems in western countries compared to non Moslem in Arab countries? Because the freedom to live, worship and human rights/gender equality are GUARANTEED by these countries, as well as MUCH better living conditions. That is why thousands if not millions of north africans (morrocans, tunisians etc) FLOCK TO EUROPE each year wanting a better life. The sad thing is that once they are in Europe, they are never grateful but in turn they try to change their adopted countries like their old countries while cheating the govt and the locals out of their state benefits/pension etc.
That is sick and twisted and just plain unfair!
-
niceguy says:
It is not a human right to be an expat in saudi arabia, it is a privillige. if they dont like saudi rules (which includes not having a church) they are freely welcome to go somewhere else.
-
Niceguy, I guess the Swiss feel the same way. You seem to neatly underline the hypocrisy in the Islamic criticisms of Switzerland.
Cheers..
-
well, it is a different. The muslims in swiss are citizens, they have the same right as other citizens.
-
Fawzia says:
It is not a human right to be an expat in saudi arabia, it is a privillige. if they dont like saudi rules (which includes not having a church) they are freely welcome to go somewhere else.
Saudi ought to give citizenship to a lot of the expats who live out there, by the same principles Muslims use to seek citizenship in non Muslim nations, especially the West.
Muslims groan & whine about how the West colonized Muslim nations, so now they have a right to go & live in the West, which colonized & oppressed them for so long.
Well, one of the biggest global oppressors was the territory which is Saudi today, right from 1400 years ago, when a certain Mr ibn Abdullah decided to call himself the last Abrahamic Prophet, barbarians from Saudi have rushed right & left, conquering the most prosperous civilizations on earth, charging jizya, oppressing & butchering non Muslims.
So all the minorities left in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Pakistan as well as any Indian Hindu should have absolute rights to migrate to Saudi, work there, settle down there permanantly, build temples & churches, preach their religions, including polytheisms, convert Muslims & so on.If Western imperialism is a ground for Muslims getting the right to settle in Western nations by millions, then Islamic imperialism, beginning from Saudi & lasting for more than a millennia should also be a ground for non Muslims to settle in Saudi & get equal opportunities.
But as sighjay said:
You seem to neatly underline the hypocrisy in the Islamic criticisms of Switzerland.
Islam still thrives on this hypocrisy & double standards, Muslims will become citizens & settle on whichever part of the West they choose, even if like Switzerland, it was never a colonizing power, & many of the immigrants are Turks who were huge colonizers of Europeans themselves.
But Turks will not only settle in Switzerland & demand full rights, they’ll also consistently deny the Armenian & Greek Holocaust , & not let any non Muslim immigrants into their lands. 😉
Such is Islamic hypocrisy… I should know, I was born into this cult. 🙂
Sadly as long as mental dhimmitude of Non Muslims prevail, there’s little we can do about all this.
-
Once again you seem rather loose with the facts. Much of the commercial, industrial and military life of the Kingdom is run by thousands of non-Moslem.
Pak vijay, I understand that there are many non muslim in Saudi, but they are there for temporary basis, they will never become Saudi citizen, because Saudi has make it clear that all Saudi citizen must be moslem and follow Islamic shariah law.
As clear as the prime minister of Australia telling moslem in Australia if they want to live under Islamic Sharia law they have to get out of Australia (I guess australia aborigines forgot to tell the same message in the past when the immigrant from West landed in their land)
I am sure all non muslim in Saudi aware of this, they are there because of the money, they are allowed to come but they must obey saudi law and free to leave whenever they wish.
’m guessing, following your logic, that the Swiss Muslim community made the decision to live in Catholic Switzerland, so really, they have no right to complain.
First, may be you can explain to me how many moslem swiss citizen, and how many moslem immigrant worker. Moslem swiss citizen should have their equal right, same as other swiss citizen while the immigrant worker they have no right to build mosque in someone land.if the owner of the land build for them mosque than it is good but it is not compulsory.
@ mbak rima
if they can change all non moslem foreign worker in their country to moslem worker than they are not entitle to provide church, same as vatican.
as first step, may be over a million filipinos there returned to their country and replaced with Indonesian moslem worker
That’s what the Swiss government and other governments are giving to Moslems coming in their country, the freedom to choose, yet they ALWAYS demand for more, for ‘equal rights’ and the ‘freedom of religion’
same goes to non moslem in saudi/ immigrant and migrant worker. while saudi don’t have non muslim citizen, swiss have moslem citizen, when this swiss demand for equal right and the freedom of religion, it is their right as swiss citizen
And do you know why there are more percentage of Moslems in western countries compared to non Moslem in Arab countries?
i don’t know, i also don’t know why there are more percentage of chinese in indonesia compared to indonesian in China, may be most of them actually simply Indonesian, who has equal right like javanese, balinese, and all other ethnic and religions in Indonesia.
may be…….
Dikasih tau yang bener kok ya ngeyel..
your true?your perspective?
everyone has their own perspective
even moslem
but thank you for your good will, you are so kind,saya sedang belajar memahami kebencian orang barat dan non muslim terhadap islam.even when you hate islam so much and you can’t see anything positive from this religion, doesn’t mean everybody think the same way like you do
-
“I just came back from Rome and Vatican last month”, “I know a brit and a german who worked for King Fahd”… wahhh so cool. I am impressed. What else Rima?
Beside that I totally agree you.
-
Pak vijay, I understand that there are many non muslim in Saudi, but they are there for temporary basis, they will never become Saudi citizen, because Saudi has make it clear that all Saudi citizen must be moslem and follow Islamic shariah law.
And they as a nation also practiced human slavery until recently, long after the world had recognised it was a basic human right to be free from such bonds. They are not a modern nation by any definition, which largely gets a green card because of it’s oil, and place in Islam. It’s human rights record at so many levels is appalling and it speaks very poorly of Islam that nothing is said.
Freedom of Religion is not something that is tied to citizenship, it too, is a basic human right, which ironically derives from the middle east (i.e. it is not a Western concept, but from the great pre-Islamic civilizations which gave humanity so much).
Whether they are citizens or not does not abrogate what most of the world, including large parts of the Islamic world, regard as a basic human right.
And Saudi Arabia prevents non-Muslim observance in all people, citizen and non-citizen, and as such breaches a most basic human right, as guaranteed under the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (which Indonesia, and most Islamic nations are party to) and Saudi Arabia, shamefully, is the only notable exception to (with Malaysia but they will ratify next year).
An interesting figure I saw today: 60% of people born into Muslim families in Switzerland under the age of 30 claim to be atheist. Which roughly matches the general population % for under 30s.
-
Sorry, I put a few commas in the wrong places in the last post (just woke, so that’s my excuse)….
-
Oigal says:
Bali could not survive on its own? Java supplies food/Power?
NG.. You should perhaps spend some time studying the economic dynamics of your own country. Java is a net importer of all its energy and food (and everything else). The raw resources are imported from the provinces including Kalimantan, Papua, and Sumatera etc.
The harsh reality is Java could not support its current population, it’s (and yours) contempt and treatment of the provinces as some sort of modern age vassal states is not unnoticed and can only bring ill tidings for all. You spew out the current elite, Jakarta borne arrogant view that the provinces need Java rather than the other way around. That is simply factually incorrect on ecomonic terms and increasingly on cultural terms as Indonesia’s Leaders increasingly allow the cultural domination of the provinces in spite of the peoples wishes.
Whilst only a fool would think that a balkanisation of Indonesia would benefit anyone, should that occur the greatest loser would be Java. Take a trip, visit the provinces with the blinkers off, it’s scary out there.
The island (Bali) is simply to small to be on its own feet,
That may be true but so is the inverse Java cannot survive without Bali and the other provinces, it’s also silly to think that only Bali has issues and we are only talking about Bali.
Only clinical deniers would deny the concerns of the provinces and think there are not significant challenges to the Republic. For the hard line Islamists and others to continue to ram their alien views down the throats of the 15% of the population that feed, clothe and power them can only lead to disaster. Unfortunately, it is unlikely anything will change until it is too late, never mind maybe Dubai will sling people like NG a few alms.
The simple fact is Java is the economic parasite on the rest of Indonesia. Now that’s not a first anywhere in the world. Many nations have such regions who then balance their costs on the rest of the nation by acting as cultural, governance and administrative centers for all parts of the nation. If they cannot do that on behalf of ALL people then one has to question what purpose do they serve at all? Sooner or later that question will be asked and consequences faced.
-
Cukurungan says:
As to electricity you have a point. If the Balinese were clever they should manage their own power supply for which they have the geothermal means and no longer be dependent on javanese mismanagement which causes constant interruptions.
Yes Balinese is much clever than your kind, therefore, they do not want to become another fail state like East Timor.
If you care so much about fate of non-muslim, there are still many non-muslim in other place of this world need your advice and help such as North korea, Burma, Laos, Nepal , Rwanda, Zimbabwe, and Cambodia go there because I guarantee your good deeds will be welcomed over there.I’m guessing, following your logic, that the Swiss Muslim community made the decision to live in Catholic Switzerland, so really, they have no right to complain. Case closed if we apply your ‘democratic way’.
I totally agree with you that the muslim who live in switzerland just mostly for economical reason therefore they has no right to complain, it is the same thing for expatriate god digger who live in Indonesia, why they do not just shut-up their mouth and dig and get gold as they want, then, case closed.
So all the minorities left in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Pakistan as well as any Indian Hindu should have absolute rights to migrate to Saudi, work there, settle down there permanantly, build temples & churches, preach their religions, including polytheisms, convert Muslims & so on.If Western imperialism is a ground for Muslims getting the right to settle in Western nations by millions, then Islamic imperialism, beginning from Saudi & lasting for more than a millennia should also be a ground for non Muslims to settle in Saudi & get equal opportunities.
Ha ha ha so funny why non-Muslim minorities in those countries should have rights to migrate to Saudi while their ancestor have already given a special gift that their conqueror had let them alive and more over majority of the people in those countries already decided by them self and happy life with Islam like Iranian, if the most Iranian want to quit Islam I do not think combined power of Arab countries able to stop them but most Iranian already chosen Islam and you and your GOD Ali Sina failed to convince your own people regarding the dark force of Islam, hence, why you blame Saudi and person who already on grave yard since 1400 years ago to your problem.
I tell you that your provocation toward Islam only give additional pain and frustration to non-Muslim especially who live in Muslim majorities countries because of your provocation they hate toward Islam will become more strengthened but they can do nothing because we Muslim majority already closed all door of possibility and ready to wipe out any small chance who dare to challenge Islam in the real world. Some time I am thinking why God make life of muslim in today world is so easy we have no more real enemy and not like our predecessor who has to face the real enemy on the battle ground. -
I totally agree with you that the muslim who live in switzerland just mostly for economical reason therefore they has no right to complain, it is the same thing for expatriate god digger who live in Indonesia, why they do not just shut-up their mouth and dig and get gold as they want, then, case closed.
You missed the crucial part of my paragraph: Case closed if we apply your ‘democratic way’
This implies that the statement before is only correct of you accept the last part, which, as indicated by it’s quotation marks, is erroneous, unless of course you’re happy to vacate the progress Indonesia and the rest of the work has made towards universal human rights, including the right to worship freely. Perhaps you are, but the Indonesian ratified UN convention I quoted above, plus the Constitution of Indonesia indicates that perhaps you are out of step with your own nation.
-
This implies that the statement before is only correct of you accept the last part, which, as indicated by it’s quotation marks, is erroneous, unless of course you’re happy to vacate the progress Indonesia and the rest of the work has made towards universal human rights, including the right to worship freely. Perhaps you are, but the Indonesian ratified UN convention I quoted above, plus the Constitution of Indonesia indicates that perhaps you are out of step with your own nation.
If do you think that we buy all content of the universal human rights championed by the western power, you are completely wrong. Because we have our human right on UUD-45 that slightly different from UN human right because it was written clearly that only certain religion has the right to worship freely in Indonesia while other religion has no such privilege.
-
@wong cilik:
as first step, may be over a million filipinos there returned to their country and replaced with Indonesian moslem worker
Filipino workers are better trained by their government as domestic helpers which is why it’s hard for our domestic helpers to compete. Few of the things that makes Indonesian domestic helpers more ‘attractive’ to Arab employees is the fact that most our domestic helpers are uneducated, gullible and that our government doesn’t care about what happens to them. Filipinos are protected by their government, their domestic helpers have good contracts with days off, clear worker’s rights, and there are offices if I am not mistaken, that represent them in all those countries so that if something bad happens to them, they will be protected and provided with legal counsel etc.
none for Indonesian workers, there are even Indonesians in Saudi who makes so-called ‘shelters’ turn out to be bastards who sell these gullible women who were abused and raped by their Arab employees as prostitutes. You don’t believe me? watch this:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/17/indonesia.sex.slave/index.htmlsame goes to non moslem in saudi/ immigrant and migrant worker. while saudi don’t have non muslim citizen, swiss have moslem citizen, when this swiss demand for equal right and the freedom of religion, it is their right as swiss citizen
First of all, for immigrants in any country to get a citizenship is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. So Muslims (and non Muslims) who are given citizenships in any countries because they asked or wanted one should be thankful and be law abiding citizens. And as far as everybody’s concerned, in Europe, Switzerland included, there is a percentage of Muslim citizen which the European government aren’t overlooking or ignoring. They have mosques, they have places of worship, they get full and equal right and they have the freedom to live their lives like all citizens yet (especially in Europe) many of them come here and force their way of life, terrorize, commit crimes instead of be good citizens.
What Swiss is banning (as a result of a democratic poll by all their citizens) is just the minarets, not the mosques. And only 56% of the people wanted to go against it, there are many many white christian and non believer swiss nationals who are for the minarets, which is cool because it shows how there are so many tolerant people in western countries, unlike Indonesia, apalagi Arab. You will never see Christian people be given permission to build churches now in Aceh, for example. And most Muslims think that non Muslims are kufurs and as a minority in their country should not be given any rights. This is the case in Indonesia and most muslim countries except (as far as I know) Malaysia and Brunei where I know the rights of the minority is also respected.
i don’t know, i also don’t know why there are more percentage of chinese in indonesia compared to indonesian in China, may be most of them actually simply Indonesian, who has equal right like javanese, balinese, and all other ethnic and religions in Indonesia.
Yes of course there is more chinese indonesian in indonesia than there are indonesians in china, duh! it’s because our country consists of all these races: melayu, polynesian, aborigines, chinese, indians, arabs and portuguese. They are all Indonesians, and most of us probably have bloods from some of these races in our veins (except arab, chinese and indian indonesians who marry only within their race). Lord knows I’m part aceh, arab, melayu and dutch.
your true?your perspective?
My true? No, the general true. My ngeyel remark was directed at your tengilness in replying to me on your previous post:
mbak rima, you are so kind, on behalf of unreliable google and the government of Indonesia for never provide enough libraries for its citizen. i ask you apologize
When all I did was to share what info I know on vatican city and Rome and give you links. Yes I am kind, and I like to share what I know. I also like people who share with me what they know so that I will have more knowledge about things. But your response was a very typical ngeyel and tengil response a la Indonesians. I have had discussions with a lot of fellow Indonesians like you, so you had my remark coming.
everyone has their own perspective
even moslem
but thank you for your good will, you are so kind,saya sedang belajar memahami kebencian orang barat dan non muslim terhadap islam.even when you hate islam so much and you can’t see anything positive from this religion, doesn’t mean everybody think the same way like you do
I agree, everybody has their own perspective and opinion and they are entitled to it, Even Moslems (and even Agnostics like me). Again, I am kind, everybody who knows me in person will vouch for that 😉
You know, orang Barat does not hate Islam or Muslims. It’s the other way around. Orang Islam hates the West and westerns, especially Christians and Jews and I really cannot see why, although I understand why the Muslims are that way because I was a very devout Muslim once upon a time but have (THANK GOD) been freed to think for myself without the hassle of threats of sin and hell and to do good deeds or kindness for points (pahala). I find it useless to hate because half the people we hate don’t know and the other half don’t care.
And If I do something good now is not because I want points to go to ‘heaven’ but it’s just to do good for the sake of doing good and to see other people happy.@bas:
It’s strange that you are impressed by unimportant facts, but everyone has their own vice, I guess. -
Rima Fauzi said
The sad thing is that once they are in Europe, they are never grateful but in turn they try to change their adopted countries like their old countries while cheating the govt and the locals out of their state benefits/pension etc.
That is sick and twisted and just plain unfair!
It’s called ‘biting the hand that feeds’.
Like dogs do.
-
@ Fawzia
Sadly as long as mental dhimmitude of Non Muslims prevail, there’s little we can do about all this.
5 thumbs up for short and powerful statement.
-
Yes Balinese is much clever than your kind, therefore, they do not want to become another fail state like East Timor.
We all know why Timor Leste is a failed state and that’s because Indonesia destroyed the infrastructure and stole any possessions they could get their grubby hans on. The Aussie diggers along with other likeminded nations are now doing their best to rebuild the country but it will take years. It will one day rise from the ashes and I dearly hope that’s soon.
-
Cuk,
if the most Iranian want to quit Islam I do not think combined power of Arab countries able to stop them but most Iranian already chosen Islam and you and your GOD Ali Sina failed to convince your own people regarding the dark force of Islam, hence, why you blame Saudi and person who already on grave yard since 1400 years ago to your problem.
So if I were sitting in Iran typing about how I’ve quit Islam, they’d be after my head! 😉
This is what is stopping apostasy in Iran,not love for Islam, but fear of losing one’s head. Had it been real love of Islam, the Ayatollahs wouldn’t have to stoop so low as to chop off apostates heads over declaring apostasy on the net! 🙂
Moreover, loads have left Islam, as soon as they had the opportunity to do this, Iran is officially 98% Muslim, amongst Iranian Americans, 40% don’t identify with any religion.
Only 40% call themselves Muslim, I personally know many Iranians who’ve turned atheists, agnostics, or converted to Christianity, to our pre Islamic Zoroastrian faith, to the Bahai faith etc. 😉
Iran also has the world’s highest brain drain, thanks to the shyte Islamic theocracy causes, all the smart people choose to flee the deadly grip of Islam! This is what Islam’s done to my beautiful nation, a superpower for a millennia pre Islam.
At least the smart in Iran can immigrate out of the Islamic hellhole via their knowledge & skills, those who have fewer marketeable skills are stuck in Iran & still called Muslim, despite hating the vile faith in their heart! 😉
-
You know, orang Barat does not hate Islam or Muslims. It’s the other way around. Orang Islam hates the West and westerns, especially Christians and Jews
Bu Rima yg dulu cantik dan seksi kenapa sekarang kok jadi ratu siluman….There is no single reason that Muslim should hate Jews or West Christian as personnal or human……because the work hard had been done by those non-muslim we can spend more our time for praying and playing….in addition there is no single verses of Quran or Hadist that teach muslim to hate non-muslim…but may be I am wrong show to me if you got one
-
If do you think that we buy all content of the universal human rights championed by the western power, you are completely wrong.
This has nothing to do with western power, nothing at all. The convention has been ratified by most of the world, from a body which overwhelmingly consists of non-Western nations. Indonesia signed, and unless those that signed it (and those that ratified that signature in the legislature) were all too stupid to understand what they were signing, which really is what you are implying, then Indonesia bought into it.
As did almost every non-Western nation.
What is it with this us versus the west nonsense that spouts so easily from mouths in Indonesia? It’s an excuse for virtually everything but it’s garbage.
-
oh and:
Because we have our human right on UUD-45 that slightly different from UN human right because it was written clearly that only certain religion has the right to worship freely in Indonesia while other religion has no such privilege.
Article 28E
(1) Every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice, to choose one’s education, to choose one’s employment, to choose one’s citizenship, and to choose one’s place of residence within the state territory, to leave it and to subsequently return to it.
Correct me if I’m wrong but freedom of religion is guaranteed without limit in UUD-45.
-
in addition there is no single verses of Quran or Hadist that teach muslim to hate non-muslim…but may be I am wrong show to me if you got one
This is the biggest lie I ever heard, I can barely turn a page of the Quran without encountering verses which teach Muslims to despise, oppress & fight others, which doesn’t sow the seds of religious strife.
Ditto for Bukhari & Muslim hadiths, a huge % of those books are full of threats of violence towards unbelievers & hatred for unbelievers.
I know these books Cuk, I think Rima does too, we were born into the religion.
Comment on “Swiss Minaret Ban Outrage”.
Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-2025
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact
There you go andrea. Check your thumbs.