Swiss Minaret Ban Outrage
Dec 1st, 2009, in News, by Patung
Indonesian government and religious leaders defend religious freedom for Swiss Muslims.
Leader of Indonesia’s largest Muslim organisation, Nahdlatul Ulama (PBNU), KH Hasyim Muzadi, said of the recent referendum vote in Switzerland to forbid the construction of new minarets on mosques
It’s regrettable, it shows the Swiss are not tolerant about religious freedom.
The man reputed to be the 18th most influential Muslim figure in the world, and the leader of the august World Council on Religions for Peace (WCRP) said the NU would send a note to the Swiss embassy in Jakarta asking for an explanation of the matter.
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Marty Natalegawa, joined in protesting: thejakartapost
We are deeply disappointed by the Swiss decision, which is contradictory to its image as an inclusive and tolerant nation
On 14th October 2009, Swiss ambassador to Indonesia, Bernardino Regazzoni, had informed both the Indonesian government and the NU about the upcoming vote, and assured both that the Swiss government strongly opposed the plan to ban minarets.
Just over 57% of those who turned out voted ‘Yes’, with a majority in 22 out of 26 cantons. The proposal was put forward by Switzerland’s largest party, the opposition hard-right Swiss People’s Party (SVP), as a supposed measure against Islamization, while the Swiss government opposed it. antara
147 Comments on “Swiss Minaret Ban Outrage”
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BrotherMouzone says:
@Andy
If a mosque was unexpectedly blown up while people were inside praying muslims may get a taste of what they’ve dished out to the rest of the world who they hope to eliminate in their need for world domination.
Patung, not sure i’m sold on this thumbs up thumbs down idea.
Classic comedy timing, good job, Andy. Love the way you make deranged comment that anyone in their right mind would disagree with, then complain about them having the right to evaluate your opinion.
Let me break it down for you Andy; first we had the blog. Then we had the comments. Now we have the evaluation of the comments. Now you are commenting on the evaluation of the comments on the blog. And now I’m criticizing your comments on the evaluations of the comments on the blog – which is actually, in itself, a type of commentary. This will continue until we are all joined in some kind of single, global, constantly conflicted consciousness, completely unable to get any work done.
After a while, your friends and family will wear holographic “thumbs up/down” signs over their heads that will automatically read their emotions through little implants in their cortex. As you conduct a conversation, you will be able to see exactly how positively or negatively they feel about you and what you are saying and will be able to tailor your words to ensure their approval. Eventually, your conversations will sound like this;
“Well frankly, I think the mosques should be bombed…. oh…er…. built up to help them become members of our community even though they have an evil religion…..bugger… some of them have a misguided approach and have misinterpreted their faith”.
See how much better that is?
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deta says:
@ Stefan
The referendum was initiated by the right wing populist Swiss People’s Party and their motivation was clearly racism.
Yeah, I just wish that some guys here are willing to take a look more in depth at something before writing a harsh comment about it. Just as a reference. The picture of the sheeps is kinda cute, though!
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Cukurungan says:
If I understand correctly you claim Indonesians don’t need to apologize when they go against human rights by banning so-called heretical sects. Only the Swiss, and by extension the entire civilized world, are transgressing human rights by banning religious symbols which they find annoying and are therefore called hypocrites.
This is a nice example of Muslim logicYes …because banning or even destroying so called heretical sects is allowed under our own human right definition because we consider that our Human Rights established under UUD-45 has higher authority than Human Right declared by UN.
check your reference … do any westerners allowed to build church (don’t talk about bell yet) in Saudi Arabia ?? with whatever reasons ??
Why does the westerner want to build church in the desert while Church in their own backyard only has attendance less than 6%
and if you talk about noise pollution … try to live in Indonesia as nonmuslim … especially in Java … I wonder how they can get decent sleep with sooo many loudspeaker contest start at 3 AM and it seems that “louder is better” is the heart of it …
You may not get a decent sleep but we muslim Indonesia get irritating to see our Chinese brother threatening GOD by pointing up and down a burning stick to HIM but even our heart is broken we still allowed them practice their faith.
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donny says:
Cuuuuukk … your comment is what I always waiting for !!
really love your comment, really appreciate … because YOU’RE HONEST, my fellow infidel =D
Yes …because banning or even destroying so called heretical sects is allowed under our own human right definition because we consider that our Human Rights established under UUD-45 has higher authority than Human Right declared by UN.
and what exactly the definition of heretical sect of yours ?? I read couple months ago, Gus Dur (CMIIW), acknowledge that besides Muhammadiyah & NU, Ahmadiyah played an important role in Indonesia’s independence … which in turns produced the UUD 45 …
yet now they are prosecuted and considered heretical sect ??
truly amazing !!!!Why does the westerner want to build church in the desert while Church in their own backyard only has attendance less than 6%
you know perfectly that churches is only comparison … let’s change it into buddhist temples, zoroastrian temples, or hindu temples … or whatever religion other than Islam to be built in Saudi Arabia …
or perhaps people from other religion to visit Mecca ??You may not get a decent sleep but we muslim Indonesia get irritating to see our Chinese brother threatening GOD by pointing up and down a burning stick to HIM but even our heart is broken we still allowed them practice their faith.
Hahahahhahaaaaaa …. this is the funniest of all … =D
you’re really hilarious … =D
but I respect you for saying that Chinese is your brother, our fellow infidels !!
and I wonder that you say Chinese are worshipping the same God as yours ?? could you please elaborate ? since my fellow chinese descendants are worshipping Avalokitesvara Boddhisattva, Jade Emperor, etc etc ??anyhow, I got that joke couple years ago in topic why Chinese is richer than pribumis … because they use burning stick to threaten God (poke him with hot rods to force Him give worldly wealth), whilst fellow muslims must scream on top of their lungs (or loudspeakers) to get God’s attention
tell me about SKB 3 menteri, Cuk … especially about permission to build religious structures in Indonesia …
that’s real tolerance !! =D
wonder if we could have a cup of tea someday, my infidel brother =D
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niceguy says:
ET said:
If I understand correctly you claim Indonesians don’t need to apologize when they go against human rights by banning so-called heretical sects. Only the Swiss, and by extension the entire civilized world, are transgressing human rights by banning religious symbols which they find annoying and are therefore called hypocrites.
This is a nice example of Muslim logic.
We don’t need to apologise, because it is perfectly clear from 1000 miles away that we don’t condone heretical sects. It is written all over islamic law books, which we also always make clear that we intend to apply in our daily life. We even put out our own Islamic Human Right Charter in plain english (google it) , so that nobody should misunderstand their right in our land. If, after knowing all of those you still insist on going heretical, I don’t know who is it to blame other than yourself.
The Swiss/west, on the other hand, claimed to have another set of human rights, which they always try to impose on other people (us). Now it turns out they don’t live up to their own so called human right standard.. why should we listen to them now?
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Fawzia says:
hi niceguy 🙂
The Swiss/west, on the other hand, claimed to have another set of human rights, which they always try to impose on other people (us). Now it turns out they don’t live up to their own so called human right standard.. why should we listen to them now?
Really? I’m an ex Muslim, a murtad, I live in the West & I have relations in Switzerland, a lot of Iranians live in Switzerland, a Western nation which was never a colonizer & Iran too is a nation never colonized by the West. Not only Iranians, but Turks too live in Switzerland, while Muslim Turkey was one of the biggest colonizers of lands, including European lands.
My relatives in Switzerland consist of a headscarf wearing aunt, her bearded husband & their two atheist & one Muslim offspring.
All of them are allowed to do as they like. My cousins openly declare themselves atheists & ex Muslims, my uncle gives dawah to whomever he wants, he’s addicted to dawah giving, my Muslim cousin has converted his Swiss girlfriend to Islam.
My aunt wears headscarves, my cousins don’t. The Swiss allow it all.
In Iran, like in many Muslim nations, all my cousins would be forced to wear hijab, they could be executed if they left Islam for another religion or atheism, they could freely convert non Muslims to Islam but non Muslims lacked the same rights.
While every Muslim nation isn’t Iran or Saudi, many do have only a little more tolerant laws, like imprisoning apostates instead of killing them. 😉
Stop your whinngs about how the West is forcing its values on you & how they’re hypocrites, please. At least to apostates like me, I know whats’ true about Islamic nations.
Muslims are pushing their values down Sudan’s throat, down the throats of non Muslims unfortunate enough to be stuck in Islamic nations, at least Western values are more often than not accepted by free choice, because they’re so obviously superior, a fact which irks many Muslims. 😉
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andy says:
And now I’m criticizing your comments on the evaluations of the comments on the blog – which is actually, in itself, a type of commentary.
I don’t mind at all. As I said but maybe you don’t understand English well enough my boy, EVERYONE should be free to comment and oppose others point of view, that is what we westerners encourage. I don’t like the anonymous hiding behind the computer and clicking on a thoumb. It is not coming out and expressing anything at all. It means in many cases someone doesn’t like the person making the comment rather than the comment themselves. I would gladly accept this thumb business if we could see who is making the thumb decision. Then, no doubt, my illiterate, closed minded, racist friends like Cukky, diego etc would have to show their ugly selves up as the morons they are. I’m almost betting you gave me a thumbs down too-but at least you had the guts to make a point which, although is against mine, addresses the issues and not me the person. As long as people come on here and play the ball not the man, I welcome any comments. Now Patung, how’s my idea? Let the people put their name to the thumb?
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Just so you know andrea: I just thumbed you down.
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Thanks dora, the feeling is mutual….touche!
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Sadly for you dora, if you are still awake punching away at your keyboard at 220am Indo time, you can’t have much of a sex life. Oh if you want to thumb me down again I just posted on the influential muslim board.
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Sadly for you dora, if you are still awake punching away at your keyboard at 220am Indo time, you can’t have much of a sex life.
Giggle. Thumb downs for your inaccurate joke. You have two mistakes in that single line.
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It’s not fair to give yourself a thumbs up, it’s cheating.
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Pena Budaya says:
I am not a fan of any religions, but sincerely it is worrying to see the growth of anti Islam movement in Europe and how (few) European political parties take advantage of this sentiment to gain votes from non Muslims (but still religious). And the votes for these political parties are indeed increasing!
The only fair situation I have been thinking of that this referendum should be followed by a ban of church towers and its bells, or anything related to any religious building that being symbols showing similar circumstances. This referendum is only attacking specific group and marginality of this group won’t improve integration process between Europeans and non European immigrants.
What I am afraid of from such statements of Indonesian famous people related to this matter as quoted here will be twisted and used to against Switzerland and any human rights related issue and perhaps being used to lower the bank century case profile.. 😉
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Hello Pena Budaya
The only fair situation I have been thinking of that this referendum should be followed by a ban of church towers and its bells, or anything related to any religious building that being symbols showing similar circumstances. This referendum is only attacking specific group and marginality of this group won’t improve integration process between Europeans and non European immigrants.
STOP playing victim, please …
don’t you get the point :
1. switzerland still allow people from different religion to practice their faith and build mosque
2. I don’t see you or your arabian friend being that friendly and tolerant towards other religionNOBODY dares to answer my question on whether we are allowed to build other religion’s structures in Saudi Arabia …
THIS IS DOUBLE STANDARD …
but sincerely it is worrying to see the growth of anti Islam movement in Europe
yet in Saudis and most Islamic countries it’s a TOTAL RESTRICTION for other religion, not just movement … complete with death penalties for infidels / apostates
open your eyes, pal … If being Islamic means you can kill me, rape my wife & children and loot my belongings … forget it …!!
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niceguy =D
We don’t need to apologise, because it is perfectly clear from 1000 miles away that we don’t condone heretical sects. It is written all over islamic law books, which we also always make clear that we intend to apply in our daily life. We even put out our own Islamic Human Right Charter in plain english (google it) , so that nobody should misunderstand their right in our land. If, after knowing all of those you still insist on going heretical, I don’t know who is it to blame other than yourself.
you’re TRULY the champion of human rights … !! oh … sorry, I should say muslim rights, which means other religion is not human and you don’t care about them but wants yours to be respected by others …
and I wonder … if other countries plan to apply your thing on THEIR own countries … you disagree ??
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Oigal says:
We don’t need to apologise, because it is perfectly clear from 1000 miles away that we don’t condone heretical sects. It is written all over islamic law books,
Oh ET, we are so silly we must have missed the bit where Indonesia went Sharia and dumped the constitution and secular government. I always love the bit when “WE” becomes speaking for all Indonesians, Muslims or not conveniently forgetting the minorities that literally feed Indonesia.
NG.. Remember the phrase “Unity in Diversity” ring any bells.
No one cares if YOU listen to anyone else, but it would be wise to start listening to the minorities in your own country. There are some very dark storm clouds out there.
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from Bild (Germany’s most prominent newspaper – in case someone did not know Bild)
“The minaret isn’t just the symbol of a religion but of a totally different culture. Large parts of the Islamic world don’t share our basic European values: the legacy of the Enlightenment, the equality of man and woman, the separation of church and state, a justice system independent of the Bible or the Koran and the refusal to impose one’s own beliefs on others with ‘fire and the sword.’ Another factor is likely to have influenced the Swiss vote: Nowhere is life made harder for Christians than in Islamic countries. Those who are intolerant themselves cannot expect unlimited tolerance from others.”
From Former Muslims United
Darwish added that “many Muslim groups are denouncing the ban as oppression to freedom of religion. However, such Muslim groups will be more credible if they first denounced the oppression of religious minorities in Muslim countries who make it illegal to practice any religion other than Islam. Muslim groups who claim that they are oppressed in Europe should be the first to stand up and yell “not in the name of my religion” when Churches are burned in Muslim countries. But instead all we hear from Muslim groups is “I am a victim” and “I am offended” while the blood of non-Muslims is being shed in the name of Sharia.
I disagree with Former Muslims United … as I believe it’s not just blood of non muslims is being shed … but also muslims from different sects (they also our brother)
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Ross says:
There’s nothing wrong with rightwing – or leftwing – populism. Populism is just an easy catch-all term of abuse arising from elitist, intelllectual and usually quite rich toffs who resent us lower classes having a say. The EU is run by such, hence their contempt for referenda, which show how we ordinary folks despise the elite, or do show that until the elite insist on re-holding the polls till enough of us knuckle under; The Swiss People’s Party wants Switzerland to remain what it always has been, and why not?
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ET says:
@ niceguy
We even put out our own Islamic Human Right Charter in plain english (google it) , so that nobody should misunderstand their right in our land.
Nice to acknowledge that you consider Indonesia belongs to the Muslims. I’ll save your post and show it to my Hindu friends. Maybe they will realize that Bali should become part of India after all. Not to mention the economic benefits belonging to a country that has chosen the upward road instead of bowing to Mecca with their arses up in the air five times a day.
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got this three questions from ex muslims in California …
•Why doesn’t the government of Saudi Arabia allow Christians to build any church on its soil, when we have permitted the Muslims to build thousands of mosques across our country?
•Why Christians cannot go to public places in Saudi Arabia with a copy of the Bible in their hands, when the copies of the Quran are available in almost all book stores in our country?
•Why can’t we stop the Muslim Imams from reading out those verses of the Quran that exhort the Muslims to kill the kafirs, when Saudi Arabia does not permit the Non-Muslims to hold their prayer congregations inside their own homes?
I believe this three questions is related on the topic
whoever have guts to answer it correctly have the rights to kick Switzerland for their islamophobic and oppression towards muslims -
Ross said
The EU is run by such, hence their contempt for referenda, which show how we ordinary folks despise the elite, or do show that until the elite insist on re-holding the polls till enough of us knuckle under
Governments come and go. In the end the will of the people will prevail, be it by referenda, elections or uprising.
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reminder of what may happen if Sharia applied …
Save My Father Hector Aleem
Submitted by Mehwish Aleem on Fri, 12/04/2009 – 10:39At a time that the United Nations calls Switzerland’s ban on new minarets “clearly discriminatory and deeply divisive,” and the whole world is condemning the swiss for their vote, I would like to bring to the attention of the world my plight.
My name is Mehwish Aleem and my father (Hector Aleem) is a human rights activist in Pakistan. He has been working as a human rights activist since 1996. He is running an NGO with the name of PEACE WORLDWIDE. Hector Aleem has worked for Christians and Muslims without prejudice. But today he is in jail and could be killed at any time.
My father was working for a church destroyed by CDA (capital development authority) in Islamabad Pakistan. The church was destroyed because according to CDA it was built illegally. The charge was false.
There are many mosques in Islamabad (the capital of Pakistan) that are built with no permit, but no one will dare to touch them. For example, there was a vacant lot near my house and a Maulvi (Muslim leader) started to build a mosque on it. The land belonged to an absentee owner. When the owner learned about it, he started to destroy the illegally built mosque on his property. Hundreds of Muslims rioted and threatened to kill the owner of the land. As the result he give up his land in order to save his life. The government did not intervene. Churches on the other hand are destroyed by the governments’ own agents.
When Hector Aleem objected to the destruction of the church he faced with several lawsuits ranging from fraud to criminal charges. He fought all of them in the courts and proved his innocence.
His opponents tried to assassinate him several times. The Maulvies threatened him that if he continues to work for the church they would kill him and his sons, and would force his dughters to convert to Islam.
During this time Hector Aleem received a Peace award by Mr. Yousaf Raza Gillani the prime minister of Pakistan. One month later, on 21st January, 2009 he was arrested by the police. They severely beat him and tortured him mentally and physically. After 24 hours of not knowing what were the charges, we were told that his offence is blasphemy, a charge that caries death penalty in Pakistan.
According to the first information report someone sent a blasphemous message to a leader of Sunni Tehreek (a Muslim extremist organization) and that sender had once contacted my father. So my father is guilty by association. Since they could not find the offender, they arrested my father.
Hector Aleem, is 51 years old and is a heart patient. He is not allowed to take his medication and is denied visitation. During his trial a large mob gathered in front of the court chanting slogans against him and threatened the judge that if he releases my father they will kill him themselves and they will destroy the court and will also kill the judge and the lawyer who defended my father. Under the mob’s pressure, the judge refused bail. The lawyer of the plaintiffs, who is a Maulvi, told the judge that if he releases my father, he (my father) will be killed as soon as he steps outside the court.
Then on 24 June 2009, chief justice of Pakistan Mr. Iftikhar Ahmed Chaudry granted my father bail, but the Maulvies lodged many other criminal cases against him so that he cannot come out.
Hector Aleem is still in jail. It is one year since his capture. The police are in cahoots with the Maulvies. Once two policemen went to my father’s cell and told him that even if he is granted a bail they will not let a blasphemer out. They will lodge so many cases against him that he will not be able to bear them. Soon after that they proceeded to lodge more charges against my father. They used to take him to the police station every fifteen days, where they beat him and torture him in front of the Maulvies and the Taliban.
I am begging for help. I plead to all those who champion the right of Muslims to build more minarets to also care about the minorities in Islamic countries. We are fighting for our lives. Are Muslim minarets more important than our lives of non-Muslims?
Please sign my petition. Please write to the Pakistani authorities listed bellow and ask them to release my father Hector Aleem as soon as possible. He is not guilty of any crime and the accusations of blasphemy that are made against him are false. They want to destroy him because he objected to the destruction of a church.
Today, all our family is in hiding. All of us have received death threats. My siblings and I have left our studies and hide for our safety. There is no future for us in our country. If my father is released he will be killed by the mob. We need to get out of Pakistan. Please help us if you can. We don’t know where to turn and whom to ask for help.
There is so much hoo-ha about the ban of minarets in Switzerland, but will anyone hear our cry?
Please make our cry reach to the ears of those who care more for human life than building minarets. We have done nothing wrong. Our only crime is to be Christians in an Islamic country.
Please contact these authorities and tell them to release my father. They know Hector Aleem is innocent, they are afraid of the mob. Your concern will give them the excuse to act.
this is not a HOAX … you can google and check the names. but I have to remind you that you may find scarier article on how muslims treat infidels …
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Hello Pena Budaya
The only fair situation I have been thinking of that this referendum should be followed by a ban of church towers and its bells, or anything related to any religious building that being symbols showing similar circumstances. This referendum is only attacking specific group and marginality of this group won’t improve integration process between Europeans and non European immigrants.
STOP playing victim, please …
don’t you get the point :
1. switzerland still allow people from different religion to practice their faith and build mosque
2. I don’t see you or your arabian friend being that friendly and tolerant towards other religionNOBODY dares to answer my question on whether we are allowed to build other religion’s structures in Saudi Arabia …
Ha ha Mas Donny please drink your tea that you offered to me to cool down your head …fyi…Bu Pena Budaya is not a Muslimah
Nice to acknowledge that you consider Indonesia belongs to the Muslims. I’ll save your post and show it to my Hindu friends. Maybe they will realize that Bali should become part of India after all. Not to mention the economic benefits belonging to a country that has chosen the upward road instead of bowing to Mecca with their arses up in the air five times a day.
Yes we can not wait to see how Indian will turn a Paradise Island become another Slumdog Island of India because more than 300 million poor Indian is ready to flood Bali.
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Bali got the most to lose if they get out of NKRI. The millions of Balinese all over Indonesia will then have to go back to their island, so they’ll be fighting among themself over those bell boy jobs. Not to speak about all of those resources they needed from java, including electricity, rice etc. The island is simply to small to be on its own feet. This is assuming they manage to separate peacefully.
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wong cilik says:
mas donny, may be you can help explain to us
NOBODY dares to answer my question on whether we are allowed to build other religion’s structures in Saudi Arabia …
Why doesn’t the government of Saudi Arabia allow Christians to build any church on its soil, when we have permitted the Muslims to build thousands of mosques across our country?
why doesn’t the government of vatican allow Rome’s 5000 moslems to build even small mosque on its soil, when we have permitted the Christians to build thousands of church across our country
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sighjay says:
why doesn’t the government of vatican allow Rome’s 5000 moslems to build even small mosque on its soil, when we have permitted the Christians to build thousands of church across our country
It’s something of a miracle that the mosque, the largest in Europe, stands in Rome at all. It took the blessing of Pope John Paul II for it to be built.
A top Vatican official said Thursday Muslims should be allowed to build new mosques in Italy, where the country’s interior minister, citing terrorism fears, is pushing to ban such initiatives. On Wednesday Interior Minister Roberto Maroni a member of the anti-immigration Northern League party, proposed a moratorium on the building of mosques following the arrest of two Moroccans suspected of planning a series of bomb attacks.
But Monsignor Gianfranco Ravasi who heads the Holy See’s culture department, suggested such a ban would be counterproductive.
“A place of worship if used as such, is always a source of communion and dialogue,” Ravasi was quoted as saying by the ANSA news agency.
Just making things up doesn’t make them true….
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rima says:
why doesn’t the government of vatican allow Rome’s 5000 moslems to build even small mosque on its soil, when we have permitted the Christians to build thousands of church across our country
FAIL! lol
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1. switzerland still allow people from different religion to practice their faith and build mosque
2. I don’t see you or your arabian friend being that friendly and tolerant towards other religionNOBODY dares to answer my question on whether we are allowed to build other religion’s structures in Saudi Arabia …
THIS IS DOUBLE STANDARD …
This is because they can’t answer as they are WRONG….They haven’t even got the guts to stand up and denounce the terrorists from 9/11, Bali, Mumbai etc so it will be a long day indeed before they stand up against their own racism and discriminatory behaviour in countries where they are the majority. Muslims in Australia for example are always on the ‘racist’ high horse when they can migrate here, buy land, property and business, educate their kids, collect social secuirty AND wait for it….build mosques and wear jilbabs etc. Many women here even wear the burqa which I can’t ever remember seeing in Indonesia on local women. No let them wallow in their double standards and let them continue trying to divide the world into us and them…They started it so it is up to them to come out and make peace with the non muslim world. But somehow I don’t think they’ll ever have the guts.
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