Terrorism, Poverty & Islam

Oct 6th, 2006, in News, Opinion, by

Poverty is the cause of terrorism, says a former Muhammadiyah chairman, not Islam.

Professor Ahmad Syafii Maarif, former Muhammadiyah chairman, speaking at an interfaith gathering, the “Simposium Antarbudaya dan Antaragama”, held under the auspices of APEC, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation group, or Organisasi Kerjasama Ekonomi Asia Pasifik, in Yogyakarta on the 5th said that terrorism, in all its forms, is an enemy of all countries in the world, not just America, and that the roots of it could be found in poverty. Therefore to combat it he advised poverty reduction programs, and also corruption reduction because corruption contributed to the woes of the poor.

Since the 9/11 attacks on America many people in the world associated terrorism with Islam. These people were mentally defective, he said, because a reading of Islam’s holy book, the Quran, would reveal that Islam was a benevolent force:

Only those who have an abnormal outlook could come to a conclusion like that. In a verse of the holy Koran it is said that one who kills a single human being kills all of mankind.

It is not reported whether he then quoted any other, less pleasing sounding, verses from the Quran.

He went on to say that these days there was a perception that terrorist or extremist ideology was spreading rapidly and easily among Indonesians. Among the poor, he said, the simplistic ideas of the radicals found fertile ground.

It is also uncertain whether he produced any research or proof for the claim that terrorism is linked to poverty. More and better jobs, better education, the owning of more television sets and luxuries seems to be Maarif’s solution to the problem. (Antara & Media Indonesia.) There is substantial evidence to say he is quite wrong however.

Maarif likely suffers from the platitude-without-thought syndrome that frequently affects Indonesian intellectuals. Most terrorists in fact come from middle class, educated backgrounds (science and engineering usually) and they are people who see their world, their traditions, their power over women and other men, crumbling around them under the force of western cultural imperialism and globalisation, people who also view the west’s power and arrogance as an insult to God. Islamic terrorism is more a sign that Islam, in its traditional forms, is dying, it is a fight against this death, a fight against those who are seen as bringing it about. Poverty is a minor causative factor, the poor have enough worries with their daily struggles, religious fanaticism does not affect them nearly as much as it does the middle classes.

If poverty is not to blame, and we see that there are other cultures in the world which are also being destroyed by globalisation, but whose people do not have the same tendency to violent resistance as Muslims do then we are left to return to Islam itself. Islam is what Islam does, and there is no “true Islam“, which is impossible by itself but is compounded by the fact that Islam has no central authority, any man may be the “one who stands in front”, or imam. Professor Ahmad Syafii Maarif, who no doubt is kind to small animals and children, is a true Muslim. But so is Osama Bin Laden, so are the head-choppers in Iraq. Those who quote “there is no compulsion in religion” and those who quote “smite at their necks” are both true Muslims. Islam is so problematic in the world because it allows for such widely variant interpretations, and there is no way of establishing one over the other, except perhaps by massive force and repression.

In particular Professor Ahmad Syafii Maarif is averting his eyes from the concept of jihad and its connection to terrorism. If challenged he will likely say that jihad is only permissible for defensive purposes and those who believe otherwise have corrupted Islam’s teachings (but of course which Islam?). This is ahistorical but is as legitimate an interpretation as many others. But it is psychologically shallow. Most great religions in the world require some sort of sacrifice on the part of believers in order for them to gain the final reward. Often it is a simple quid pro quo equation – sacrifice your life in this world in order to gain it in the next. For Christians this sacrifice is done viscerally, by association with Christ crucified. For Muslims the sacrifice is done literally, through jihad. Islam is indeed connected to terrorism. It is Professor Ahmad Syafii Maarif who is mentally lacking, or perhaps just not courageous enough to look at things in ways that would lead to discomfort and angst for his good self.


44 Comments on “Terrorism, Poverty & Islam”

  1. Molisan Tono says:

    guess what… i’ve found 3 person look a like with Christ… but sad… they were murdered by wrong accusation from our fella Moslem brother…. they are Tibo CS… Hassan my friend… Dominggus is crying out for Christ for your sins… He said “forgive them… they don’t know what have they done”… sad huh???

  2. Ismail says:

    Molisan Tono hello

    Jesus is all about forgiveness and yes he will forgive and even go on to love them.

  3. Hassan says:

    Ismail: the term “hypocrits” used in the Quran specifically means: a group of people in mecca in Muhammad’s (pbuh) time who confessed to had accepted Islam, but their actions doesn’t show it. not hypocrits today, and not non Muslims today. so my friend, you got it wrong on all accounts.

    “most of your Muslim buddy killing allover the world” how many of that 1.5 billion Muslims are doing the killings? MOST usually means more than a half. 800 million Muslims are on a killing spree? either your grammar is incorrect, or you had watched too many horror movies. a touch of delusion maybe.

    “it doesn’t change the fact that it evidently and openly advocate the death of unbelievers and apostate.”
    care to explain these?:

    Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.

    Psalms 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

    Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them.

    Psalms 58:10 : The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

    Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it’s OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.

    Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.

    Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.

    Ismail, history had prooved that Muhammad (not Jesus) is the most influential person that had ever lived. and the facts says that Islam (not Christianity) is the world’s fastest growing religion. I don’t have to proof anything to you, but you Ismail must proof to all of us that the history and the facts are wrong. can you do that?

  4. Ismail says:

    Hassan, i hope we can keep this up, i really disagree with you, about Mohammed being the most influencial figure on earth, cause even mohammed had to to talk about Jesus for relevance. but let leave that aside.

    And i do believe that he Mohammed had a remarkable influence, all terrorist in the world follow his “sublim morals” most of the Mullahs or Imams have more that 2-3 wifes ’cause he had more than 14 and women slaves as a side kick, they sometimes beat there wives. and in most Islamic countries studies show that Muslims men marry underage girls just like the “prophet who had no prophesy or deeds of miracles”, who himself married a girl of 6 years and slept with are at age 9 and only Muslims can explain this quiet gracefully how. well i can go on about his influence its sadly unending

    yes back to the text you quoted.

    yes those text, are what we Christians call the old testiment and if you care to look closely you will find they historical and therefore narrative and yes they did happen i can even try to explain to you but this is not the forum.
    let me point out a few facts from the text you quoted.

    1. they are not quoted out of context they are in there right historical place except your quote of psalms 137 -9 you shoud have stated from verse 7.
    2. As mentioned before they are narrative.
    3. they are not open ended text. they are specific to the event
    4. the text are not instructive therefore Christian view them as historical
    5. based on the above we as Christians live and preach the new testament or a new covenant.

    let say this. take moment to listen to Christian massages e.g billy graham you won’t here this voilence you are trying to ascribe to Christians rather the love of God comes right through and , even those on the fringe of Christs teachings. that is the fruit of Christ, he fullfilled the old covenet and gave us a new covenant.

    but listen to Muslims clerics from the blind shiek in the US, to the imams of Islamic court in somalia to the president of iran. to the madness going on in Iraq. they just follow Mohammed precisely there massage is full of hate and ofcourse death revenge is not never too far off, yet the scream more than any faith that Islam is a religion of peace, how ironic as a matter of fact, if you a non Muslims say otherwise they will kill you and it just go on and on.

    if Mohammed was truely from God he would encouraged the new covenant and not form the most evil cult that ever lived, there share weight of this cult appeal is amazing, that is why we believe he, satan and Allah are the greatest antiChrist ever. believe me its not a surprise.

    Finally, please you lean on the old testament as much as you want, but let me make quite clear, Christians are Christians because the follow the words JESUS the Christian. So if you are looking for what as Christians follow please read the Gospel.
    let me give you just a bit of it.
    love the lord God,love your neigbour and your enemy and pray for them, you must marry one wife and love her like yourself…….. space is not enough to enumerate all that Christ stand for, note that they are all unIslamic, that is why Muslims would love nothing more than to keep telling themselves that the bible is corrupt, overly edited and the rest of that non sense Muslims tell each other. i can go on and on but i fear my responce is becoming too long. thank you.

  5. Hassan says:

    Ismail: the thing about you is that you always say this and that, but without any proof to back up those narratives.

    there is absolutely no proof of any of these, these are all “according to mr. Ismail”:

    “but listen to Muslims clerics from the blind shiek in the US, to the imams of Islamic court in somalia to the president of iran. to the madness going on in Iraq. they just follow Mohammed precisely there massage is full of hate and ofcourse death revenge is not never too far off, yet the scream more than any faith that Islam is a religion of peace, how ironic as a matter of fact, if you a non Muslims say otherwise they will kill you and it just go on and on.”

    I have been a Muslim all my life and not once i heard of any of what you said in any sermons. I have friends and cousins living in the US, and they never mentioned hearing any of those “vile sermons”. maybe you’re just being paranoid? maybe a case of dellusion? maybe you’re just propagandizing without evidence? have you personally heard any of those things? maybe you’re just lying to justify your point!

    -Muhammad (pbuh) didn’t talk about Jesus for reference, he was just making the records straight about Jesus to the Jews and the entire humanity. because the Jews had defied and tried to kill him. Jesus was one of God’s messenger after all.
    -Muslims have more than one wives because God allowed it in his Book, not because of following Muhammad (pbuh).
    -Muhammad (pbuh) married the underaged Siti Aisyah because Aisyah’s father Abu Bakar wanted it. Abu Bakar is Muhammad’s (pbuh) closest friend, and it will offend him if he rejected the offer. the couples started to sleep together when Aisyah received her first menstruation, a sign of adulthood for women those days. that is an accepted concept on the culture at the time. who are we to judge the cultures of the people of old days based on our own standards? that’s naive and arrogant.

    you see, you don’t know what you’re saying. you don’t understand anything, yet you claimed to have knowledge of Islam, that is ignorance.

    again, western scholars (not Muslims, mullahs, etc) had proven Muhammad (not Jesus) was the most influential person that had ever lived. and Islam (not Christianity) is the world’s fastest growing religion. now, that “evil cult” is gaining more followers than Christianity which taught love. why was that?? those people who newly embraced Islam couldn’t have been attracted by a religion which taught evil and violence. they must be enchanted by Islam’s beauty and love.

    I don’t have to proof that to you, Ismail. history will proof which one is the straight path and which one had been diverted to paganism by worshipping three but one god(s).

  6. Ismail says:

    Hassan thank you for your reply, but let me remind you, that the so called Nazis germany had sympathizers in the US too and they are still there and i hear there numbers are increasing too, isn’t that ironic, after killing over 12 million people they still have convert, certainly, Islam and Nazis are one and the same just slightly different terms. they have a common enemy.

    i did say Muslims are the only ones that can defend Mohammed pedophiliac behavour, i thought he was sublime in morals, so your prophet could not live above culture and peer pressure. he was a failure then. what you are saying is that a girl in those days mature after their first menses, hello sir, that is absolute nonsense, do you know there girls with first menses at age 7 even in mohammed times, therefore its ok to have sex with them. this is a shame and certainly Islamic.

    if you want to be sure about something why don’t you go study it for yourself, let forget the numbers for a moment, go study the bible and see if we are truely worshiping 3 gods cause we are not and on that account and many account the Quran is miserably wrong, allow me to give you an example:

    Quran 19 27-28 says “At length she brought (the babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms), They said: “O Mary! Truly a strange thing has thou brought! “O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a man of evil, nor your mother a woman unchaste.”

    Quran 66 12 says ” And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).”

    the two verse above are just one of the many indications that the Quran is pathetic and completely mistaken, because historically and biblically mary mother of Jesus is different of maryam the sister of Moses and Aaron who happen to be the children of Imran and they lived 2600 years apart. please go check my facts. the Quran is a concoction, therefore Islam is a lie.

    let me appeal to your academic sense, please go learn Christianity from a non-Muslim source just to be sure. let me tell you this, the bible and Christianity has been, before mohammed came. for that reason only take an objective study of bible and Christianity because your imams and Muslims are simply wrong on all counts.
    thank you.

  7. ali says:

    again, western scholars (not Muslims, mullahs, etc) had proven Muhammad (not Jesus) was the most influential person that had ever lived. and Islam (not Christianity) is the world’s fastest growing religion. now, that “evil cult” is gaining more followers than Christianity which taught love. why was that?? those people who newly embraced Islam couldn’t have been attracted by a religion which taught evil and violence. they must be enchanted by Islam’s beauty and love.

    what have those point got to do with the real truth? the fact that it grows fast has no relevance to its being the correct one. weeds in my garden do grow faster that my flowers.

    I have yet to see the so-called “Islam’s beauty and love” — if that claim were true, how would you explain the fact that most of the violence in the past few years were committed by people who claimed they were Muslims? you can argue that it’s not the religion who commited the act, but if that argument is correct, we shouldn’t see a pattern, should we? yet the pattern is overwhelming – there must be a relationship between the teaching and the act.

    your Muhammad is just another guy from the middle east’s past to many of us – no more than that. I wouldn’t even be surprised if some don’t even know who he is.
    praise him all you want, a lot other leaders – from lenin, mao, mcarthur, or even suharto could turn themselves into similar cult personality and create themselves a religion a few hundred years from now, had they written a lot and inserted the word “god” or “Allah” here and there in their writings. I’m happy they didn’t, is enough.

    i don’t have to proof that to you, Ismail. history will proof which one is the straight path and which one had been diverted to paganism by worshipping three but one god(s).

    the fact that you mention “three but one god(s)” is an strong indication of your offensive ignorance. if you don’t understand something, don’t assume the subject is weird or wrong. it could be that God has not blessed you with enough intelligence to comprehend it.

  8. Andrew says:

    Yo Hassan this is a free forum, so words are as cheap as dirt. Mohammed built the straightest path, as straight as the letter “S”.

    Oh, and Merapi is the tallest volcano on earth.

    “¬¶western scholars (not Muslims, mullahs, etc) had proven Muhammad (not Jesus) was the most influential person that had ever lived.

    That’s Muhammad Ali, not your Muhammad.

    Jesus is.

  9. Ismail says:

    Ali please allow me to say this: that was a fantastic post.

  10. Hassan says:

    Ismail: how many are those nazis sympathizers these days? billions?

    now Ismail, according to the bible Jesus was born by the virgin mary, but according to modern scientific standards that’s impossible. Jesus drank wine with the tax collectors and prostitutes, by modern ethical standards it is unacceptable for a religious person to drank wine with prostitutes. modern standards are not the ultimate judge of decency. contemporary standards evolves. hence, judging the cultures and standards by our own is both ridiculous and arrogant.

    what Muhammad (pbuh) did was a fine and unacceptable practice according the the cultures that time. was he suppose to know that 1500 years later that practice is frowned upon and illegal in some Christian countries? that’s just ridiculous. what gave you the right to judge other people from another time period and their cultures based on your standards??

    for example if you married your wife when she was 22 years old, that’s fine right? how about if in 100 years time, the legitimate lawfull age limit to marry a woman is when she is 28 years old? won’t you be called a pervert??

    Ismail, you sure never learns, don’t you? how many times should i told you that you don’t have any knowledge, and hence any credibility to quote the Quran? Mary was called as “the sister of aaron” by the local Jews back then as a way of giving respect for her piety. mary was a respected person on Jewish society at that time whose piousness and sincerety was considered to resembled aaron’s piety, as she used to pray all day long on solitude. I bet you didn’t know that.

    if you’re not worshipping 3 gods, then tell me: can the holy ghost create the universe? can the father be the redeemer? no, he needed Jesus to redeem the sin of mankind. can Jesus exist without the father? who’s the first one to came into being, Jesus, the holy ghost, or the father?

    ali: are you saying that humans and weeds are the same?? because I’m implying that all those people converted to Islam for a reason, and the reason is not fertilizer, hate, or evil. but love and peace. those people are as smart as you are and have the same power of reasoning as you do.

    andrew: “Jesus is”, yeah right. it’s no use arguing now, wait till judgement day, shall we?

    ————

    and Ismail, you said “please go learn Christianity from a non-Muslim source just to be sure.” have you studied Islam from a non-Christian source? I guess not, maybe it’s your pastors, cardinals and popes who got it wrong on all account?? you know, just to be sure.

    Quran 19:88-92

    88 – And they say: “The Most Beneficent (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) (as the Jews say: Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son (Christ), and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.).”
    89 – Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.
    90 – Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,
    91 – That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).
    92 – But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allah) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children).

    and also 19:93-96

    93 – There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) as a slave.
    94 – Verily, He knows each one of them, and has counted them a full counting.
    95 – And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).
    96 – Verily, those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger (Muhammad SAW)) and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Beneficent (Allah) will bestow love for them (in the hearts of the believers).

    i don’t know what you believed, but that’s what I believed. that’s monotheism (Quran 19:93). God is Supreme, One and Only.

  11. Mohammed Khafi says:

    Hassan said:

    according to the bible Jesus was born by the virgin mary, but according to modern scientific standards that’s impossible.

    Not just according to Injeel, Hassan. Also according to Al Quran.

    She said: “How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?” 19:20

    And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples. 21:91

    And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). 66:12

    Hassan also said:

    Jesus drank wine with the tax collectors and prostitutes, by modern ethical standards it is unacceptable for a religious person to drank wine with prostitutes

    From a purely Quranic perspective, alcohol in limited quantities is acceptable, intoxication is what is harmful.

    They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder 2:219

    This verse clearly states that you may spend your excess if you so wish on gambling and intoxicants, but that it has to be done in moderation, as too much leads to great sin

    O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say, nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when traveling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again. 4:43

    Clearly here there is no injunction against drinking, purely a command to not pray whilst intoxicated.

    O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, of Satan’s handwork: eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper.
    Satan’s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: Will ye not then abstain? 5:90-91

    Again no injunction against gambling and intoxicants, but rather a request to refrain from them.

    As for the prostitutes, I would suggest that if the intention is not to avail oneself of the prostitutes services, then what could be the harm in socialising with them, possibly to help them in some way or other?

    Regarding the question of the Prophet and Aisha. Paedophilia is completely unacceptable at any time in history for a truly religious person, I chose to reject the Hadith which is where these stories of child sex abuse come from. Please stop trying to defend a disgusting practice by trying to say that it was acceptable at the time, and start looking at the root cause of the problem, Hadith!

    Hassan also said:

    what gave you the right to judge other people from another time period and their cultures based on your standards??

    Hassan, I would ask “What gives the Islamic Sharia based Clergy the right to judge people and impose standards from another time period and their cultures based on their standards?”

    Peace Brother

  12. Solomon Cohen says:

    It wasnt Muslims that killed massive numbers of Africans, majority of them Muslims, through slavery it was Christians, it wasnt Muslims that killed 5 million Jews it was Christians, it wasnt Muslims that used two atomic bombs on Japan it was Christians, it wasnt Muslims that created aparthaeid it was Christians, it wasnt Muslims that created colonialism to rob and pillage the world it was Christians, it wasnt Muslims that used chemical weapons in vitnam it was Christians, it wasnt Muslims that casued the extinction and genocide of the native peoples of America it was Christians. It seems you Christians need to look at the hard facts. There is no Muslim country that is currently using war in a Christian country to rob it of its natural resources. Get real, your own Christian scholars, the ones who are truthful, have asserted that the bible is far more violent than the Quran. It wasnt Muslims that were responsible for the massacre in Rawanda.

    From a non-Muslim

  13. Ismail says:

    hello Solomon,

    first let me take you back your statement you said “Get real, your own Christian scholars, the ones who are truthful, have asserted that the bible is far more violent than the Quran.” please I would like you to quote the scholar, that said that bit and i will like to read his findings.

    secondly I guess you believe that all the newscaster in BBC are Christians because the bear Christians names well, news flash sir, the have claimed openly in so many ways that they are not Christian.

    if you desire to explore the truth read the definition for a Christian in the bible i will give you tips perhaps you will get a grip.

    Jesus says i must love those who hate me and even pray for them, and all the apostles said the same thing

    apostle paul say “owe no man nothing but love” he went on to say you can have all the spiritual gift in the world and understand, looking most pious and all that good and nice thing and you have not LOVE all that is a waste.

    mind you sir, the first Christians where so called, because in the city of antioch they behaved like Christ, they cared for the sick, they attended to the poor and they loved, they did the things the that Christ did and commanded

    Jesus said, to be a Christian, a child of God, its not by calling yourself Christian or bearing Christian sounding names, it simply obeying his word, he said forgive 7by70 times. that is being a Christian sir, living above SIN and loving God, when I became one(Christian) i knew the difference, I became a man of one wife and I have been devoted to my wife and family and people.

    finally sir, there are volence in the bible yes, but the are narrative not instructive, that is why the volence you mentioned couldn’t have been by Christians, they can’t even quote a word by Jesus to validate there behaviour. Jesus stood differently even while on the cross he said “father forgive them for they know not what they do” not sir that he did not curse or abuse, he simply forgive.
    finally as a suddent of the bible and the Quran i can tell you that the volence in the Quran are instructive, and that is why jihadist will always quote from the words and deed of the ‘prophet mohammed’

    please i do believe from your words, that your understanding of the bible is been from hear say, perhaps from people who already hate Christianity and all that it truelly stand for. but sir if you are careful go through it for yourself.

    ———-

    Hassan, thank you for replying,but do try hard to stop judging my knowledge and stop calling names, i know its not an ethically problem for you, but its not helping your defence in my opinion, I am sure people are reading so let them be the jury.

    I am sure you don’t think its cool for a prophet of 54 to marry a girl of 6years and sleep with her at age 9 even in the 7th century and most certainly not now, I am sure your desire to defend Islam and its prophet at all cost is really big on you and I think it’s a big burden to bear. so i wont say much on it. this sets him apart surely from the true prophets of God in the bible, apart from the fact he had no miracle and no prophecy.

    but let go back to mary shall we: you said

    Mary was called as “the sister of aaron” by the local Jews back then as a way of giving respect for her piety. mary was a respected person on Jewish society at that time whose piousness and sincerety was considered to resembled aaron’s piety, as she used to pray all day long on solitude. I bet you didn’t know that.

    i will beg you to think this though for a moment, I think its sad because, it seem to me that you’re trying to grab air with this explanation. I think its quite simple really, i quoted the Quran your so-called revealed book or decended book, and you are looking to change the uneditable ‘holy book’ by saying that it was the Jews that the Quran was quoting and not a revelation. how sad indeed. one more reason why that so called ‘holy book’ is a bunch-bundled non-sense.

    for clearity may i quote the Quran verse again, perhaps you will dig up a more acceptable explanation, here is the verses:

    Quran 19 27-28 says “At length she brought (the babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms), They said: “O Mary! Truly a strange thing has thou brought! “O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a man of evil, nor your mother a woman unchaste.”

    Quran 66 12 says ” And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).”

    clearly the 2 verses together says that mary mother of Jesus is aarons sister and that there father is Imran. the Quran is completely wrong in this case, as its wrong in it theologicall,historical and moral positions.

    i do feel you have not presented any other case worth replying, I think our brother Khafi has been graciuos with the truth. God bless him in Jesus name.

  14. Ihaknt says:

    Wow…obviously a very sensitive issue, heated arguement.

Comment on “Terrorism, Poverty & Islam”.

RSS
RSS feed
Email

Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-2023
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact