Tifatul Watch I: Adolf Hitler
Apr 12th, 2010, in News, by Patung
Information minister Tifatul Sembiring and his Adolf Hitler quoting tweet.
Part the First of a series on the travails of the Minister for Truth Information, Tifatul Sembiring of the Islamist Justice Party/Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS).
On April 8th Tifatul posted a ‘wise saying’ tweet on his very active Twitter account, from Adolf Hitler: twitter
Pertemuan antara dua anak manusia, kemudian keduanya saling melengkapi, ini adalah sebuah keajaiban ~ adolf hitler
which local media are translating as:
the union between two children, when both of them complete each other, this is magic – Adolf Hitler
A prize for anyone who can find out what Hitler actually said here, i.e. where it is sourced from.
Puzzled ‘followers’ of Tifatul’s Twitter account soon questioned the minister over the tweet, causing Tifatul to hastily add:
Penulis sejarah tentang hitler, mengutip pidatonya, bukan berarti ybs pendukung nazi. [writing about the history of Hitler, quoting his speeches, doesn’t mean a person is a Nazi]
38 Comments on “Tifatul Watch I: Adolf Hitler”
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I’m sure it’s about sex, copulation, right?
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But I’m not sure what so ‘miraculuous’ about the ‘union between two children’. I mean, assuming it’s a heterosexual union he was talking about, then it’s as simple as a sperm get into an ovum, and boom, a baby born. That’s biology 101 I learned in the university.
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Chris says:
A prize for anyone who can find out what Hitler actually said here, i.e. where it is sourced from.
I looked on Wikiquote here:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
and couldn’t find it.I also tried searching on Google for “Hitler Zwei Kinder” (i.e. “Hitler two children” in German) and didn’t get anything either.
So maybe it is one of his more obscure ones…
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Patung,
Got it! From one of his speeches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-OMPQ4QwP0
What’s the prize?
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ET says:
Has ‘Mein Kampf’ now come to supplement Quran and Hadith?
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bs says:
I saw posters in various SMP schools that said “teori evolusi” is bad because it was the cause of, among others, nazi Germany and the holocaust. That was in state schools.
So I guess they the official opinion about nazi’s is: “not ok”. -
brb says:
The only “relationship” I know between Hitler (or Nazi) with the “Islamist view” is the mutual hatred towards the Jews. And therefore, to him (and his Islamist community), Hitler is not *that* bad. Perhaps that is why he’s starting to quote Hitler, as if to say, “Hey guys, Hitler is not so bad after all”. Perhaps there’s a worldwide (“Islamic”) campaign to paint Hitler in a better light đ
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you should see how many youngsters here in bandung walk around with hitler tshirts, swastika armbands and stuff,,,, when you ask them they got no idea who hitler was they just think it looks kinda cool…
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and don’t forget that the palastinian mufti used to be a frequent guest of hitler…
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Adolf Hitler to Haj Amin Al-Husseini, mufti of Jerusalem, November 28, 1941
Germany stands for an uncompromising struggle against the Jews. It is self-evident that the struggle against the Jewish national homeland in Palestine forms part of this struggle, since such a national homeland would be nothing other than a political base for the destructive influence of Jewish interests. Germany also knows that the claim that Jewry plays the role of an economic pioneer in Palestine is a lie. Only the Arabs work there, not the Jews. Germany is determined to call on the European nations one by one to solve the Jewish problem and, at the proper moment, to address the same appeal to non-European peoples.
Head of Nazi SS troops Heinrich Himmler stated to Chief of Nazi propaganda Josef Goebbels:
I have nothing against Islam because it educates the men in this division for me and promises them heaven if they fight and are killed in action. A very practical and attractive religion for soldiers.
Could the historians in this forum shed some light on the relation between the nazis and the muslim world?
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There was at least one important difference between islam and nazism. The German warriors didn’t have to be killed in battle before being allowed to enjoy their 72 virgins. Those who had distinguished themselves on the battlefield were send to Erholungslager, some kind of Club Med avant la lettre, full of blond and blue-eyed Teutonic maidens whose role it was to become the baby factories of the future Aryan race.
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Ross says:
Hardly surprising that PKS would find affinity with NSDAP.
The PKS aims to strip away much of what is pleasant and liveable here, and are clearly using Hitlerian tactics to work witihn the democratic structure with the object of replacing it. One wonders if they just want an Indonesian sharia state or a Hizbut Tahrir caliphate, which is, or ought to be, outlawed as treason.
As for madrotter’s T-shirt spotting, it is probable that most of the wearers have little or no idea what Adolf was all about, and one hopes the same goes for the numerous young, and several older, folks who wear Guevara t-shirts. A totalitarian psychopath should not be turned into a hero.
Mind you, all those pinko dimwits in Hollywood have no such excuse for lionising Castro’s hatcher-man. -
Odinius says:
madrotter said:
you should see how many youngsters here in bandung walk around with hitler tshirts, swastika armbands and stuff,,,, when you ask them they got no idea who hitler was they just think it looks kinda coolâŠ
This isn’t confined to Indonesia. Actually quite common in other Asian countries too. A German friend of mine lived in South Korea, and used to get lots of “Hitler, great man!” comments from cabbies and others.
Mumbai has a “Hitler themed restaurant” (no joke)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_Cafe
…and then there’s the “Hitler Techno Bar & Cocktail Show” in Busan, South Korea.
http://www.pusanweb.com/feature/hitlerbar/
People can try to make this about Islam all they want, but it’s really about ignorance and insensitivity in a place untouched by Hitler’s evil. It’s common across Asia, and, despite whatever reasons there might be, it’s still crass.
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wasn’t hitler also very interested in tibetian buddhism? they were using quiet a lotta speed, those nazi’s, if i’m correct they’re the ones that invented christal meth right?
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they did invent crystal meth. hitler was getting like 8 injections a day by the end, according to albert speer (whose memoirs are a really interesting read).
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waha odinius, i actually think those cafe’s are funny in a mel brooks kinda way!
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it’s so absurd that it would have a high irony factor, were that the intention, but they don’t mean it ironically. like tifatul.
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with a bit of a hogan’s heroes feel to it i would go and have a laugh for sure!!! on a funny note, they filmed one of those weird sadistic soft porn flicks, ilsa and the ss or something in secret on the set of hogan’s heroes (and the guy playing hogan was heavily into sm)
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you should see how many youngsters here in bandung walk around with swastika armbands and stuff,,
Maybe they’re hindus…, or buddhists…..
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Yori says:
We can still take many good things even from worst man
“Look on what is said rather than who said that”
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Elsa117 says:
Cmon, it is just a quote… *rolls eyes
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Odinius
Mumbai has a âHitler themed restaurantâ (no joke)
Funny to what length people go in order to attract customers by exploiting the curiosity factor.
In Paris there is a Buddha-bar, but I doubt you will find many buddhists there. -
We can still take many good things even from worst man
âLook on what is said rather than who said thatâ
Cmon, it is just a quote⊠*rolls eyes
Yes it’s just a quote, and there’s nothing ‘wrong’ with the quote, although I’m not entirely sure what it means exactly, but that’s not the point. Why would he suddenly post a ‘wise saying’ from Adolf Hitler? It’s just bizarre.
If he were engaged in a debate or conversation with someone and he for some reason thought a quote from Hitler was appropriate, well, maybe, not necessarily odd there.
Of course if Hitler said “2+2=4” everybody agrees with him, and not everybody is a Nazi or approves of some aspects of Nazism….A better example, if Hitler said “Bolshevik Russia is a menace to the world and must be annilihated”, some agree, some disagree, but if you agree you are not necessarily a Nazi. So it’s not about the quote itself but why Tif suddenly posts a wise saying from Hitler to the whole world apropos of nothing.
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Maybe a journalist should ask him why he quoted Hitler a propos of nothing. In my opinion it’s nothing but provocation, a bit of a PKS trademark.
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Arie Brand says:
ET, you asked earlier whether any one could shed some light on the relation between the Nazis and the Muslim world. Well, I have looked at some depth at one particular aspect of it and that is the accusation that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was, during the war, a confidant of Hitler and actually helped planning the holocaust. I wrote earlier on this:
f there hadnât been a Grand Mufti the Zionists would have had to invent him. In fact they seem to have partly succeeded in doing so. Let us have a look at his case.
The evidence that somehow he âhelped participate in the holocaustâ is, at best, a matter of double hearsay, the kind of thing that would be thrown out in any decent court.
Dr. Rudolf Kasztner, a Zionist leader, allegedly testified that Dieter Wisliceny, a deputy of Eichmann, had told him that he âwas convincedâ that the Mufti âhad played a role in the decision to exterminate the European JewsâŠâ (Wikipedia)
Now this Kasztner was, in fact, a rather controversial character who eventually got involved in a libel case in Israel concerning his wartime past and was subsequently murdered (by an Israeli Jew).
There was, as is well known, another Zionist leader, Joel Brand (no relation), who in his â doomed – effort to save the lives of one million Hungarian Jews, was in contact with Wisliceny and Eichmann at roughly the same time and place as Kasztner. Since he, contrary to Kasztner, came out of that affair with an unsullied reputation, his testimony on the role of the Mufti, if any, might be slightly more interesting. I have, however, not been able to find anything on this.
It has also been claimed that Wisliceny repeated, at Nuremberg, this accusation regarding the Muftiâs role in the âfinal solutionâ. However, the testimony he gave at Nuremberg on 3rd January 1946, as a witness for the prosecution, on what he knew of the âfinal solutionâ makes no mention of the Mufti at all. Wisliceny wasnât high up enough in the Nazi hierarchy anyway to know at first hand what went on at the Wannsee Conference (where neither he, nor, needless to say, the Mufti, were among the 15 participants â who, themselves, belonged to the second echelon of Nazi leaders).
Yet the role of the Mufti in this all, has, mainly on the basis of this shaky 2nd or 3rd hand testimony of Kasztner, assumed mythical proportions.
Peter Novick, whose reputation as a scholar has probably largely saved him from that easiest of accusations, to be a âself-hating Jewâ, wrote in his path breaking study âThe holocaust in American lifeâ:
âThe claims of Palestinian complicity in the murder of the European Jews were to some extent a defensive strategy, a preemptive response to the Palestinian complaint that if Israel was recompensed for the Holocaust, it was unjust that Palestinian Muslims should pick up the bill for the crimes of European Christians. The assertion that Palestinians were complicit in the Holocaust was mostly based on the case of the Mufti of Jerusalem, a pre-World War II Palestinian nationalist leader who, to escape imprisonment by the British, sought refuge during the war in Germany. The Mufti was in many ways a disreputable character, but post-war claims that he played any significant part in the Holocaust have never been sustained. This did not prevent the editors of the four-volume âEncyclopedia of the Holocaustâ from giving him a starring role. The article on the Mufti is more than twice as long as the articles on Goebbels and Goering, longer than the articles on Himmler and Heydrich combined, longer than the article on Eichmann â of all the biographical articles, it is exceeded in length, but only slightly, by the entry for Hitler.â
Spurred on by this I checked this Encyclopedia for a few things myself. I looked, first of all, for an entry on Hans Albin Rauter, the Austrian SS-General, who during the war years was the highest SS and police leader (like Heydrich he had the SS rank of âObergruppenfuehrerâ) in occupied Holland and played a crucial role in the destruction of more than one hundred thousand Dutch Jews (the Dutch executed him in 1949). To my surprise there was no entry for him at all.
Then I checked up on Seyss-Inquart, Hitlerâs deputy in Holland (executed at Nuremberg), and Anton Mussert, the leader of the Dutch Nazis (executed in Holland). These both had entries but together they only mustered about 60 % of the space allocated to the Mufti.
It seems to me plain what has happened here. A man, who in the Nazi scheme of things, was probably no more than a pawn, has, exactly for the reasons suggested by Novick, been transformed into a main player.
What seems to be clear is that the Mufti sought to prevent the transfer to Palestine of any such Jews who the Nazis might decide to expel. He has also been accused of having played a role in the formation of regiments of Bosnian (not Palestinian!) Muslims who fought on the side of the Germans.All in all his role doesnât seem to have been very much different from that of another nationalist leader who organized fighting units (in his case of his countrymen) on behalf of the Germans: Subhas Chandra Bose, president of the Indian National Congress. I think that both the Mufti and Bose acted on the same motto: the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I cannot recall, however, that the British ever argued that Indian rights to independence should be curtailed because of Boseâs wartime role; because here is a point that holds for both Bose and the Mufti and needs to be made most explicitly: one cannot claim that the Indians, respectively the Palestinians, were implicated collectively in the wartime deeds of these leaders.To focus on the Mufti again: even if he committed the dire deeds he is being accused of he did not receive instructions on these points from a representative body of his countrymen. It can even be questioned to what extent he could at that stage still be regarded as a ânational leaderâ at all.
In one of the most important pre-war decisions for instance, the acceptance, or otherwise, of the 1939 British White Paper, he found, according to Rashid Khalidi, âmost of the rest of the Palestinian leadershipâ (which was in favour of acceptance) against him. The Mufti, assisted by some âyounger and more militant advisorsâ, carried the day, but in exile, says Khalidi, he âwas increasingly out of touch with events on the ground, and his policies became more and more unrealistic in the years that followedâ.
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In my opinion itâs nothing but provocation, a bit of a PKS trademark.
I don’t agree, hardly likely to be deliberately offensive or provocative and I bet he regrets it, I think it does suggest something about his reading habits though, and maybe some other things….
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Now we have looked at possible contacts between Muslims and Nazis it seems only fair to look at the same thing as far as Zionist organisations are concerned.
Lenni Brenner, an American Jew, has published a revealing document as an attachment to his book ‘Zionism in the Age of the Dictators’
âFundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning
the Solution of the Jewish Question
in Europe and
the Participation of the NMO in the War
on the Side of Germany
(1941)ââââââââââââââââââââââââ
It is often stated in the speeches and utterances of the leading statesmen of National Socialist Germany that a prerequisite of the New Order in Europe requires the radical solution of ……………..
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/mideast/agedict/irgunazi.htm
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Arie Brand
What seems to be clear is that the Mufti sought to prevent the transfer to Palestine of any such Jews who the Nazis might decide to expel.
Have there been indications that the Nazis sought to expel part of the Jews to Palestine and if so
* how many Jews would there have been involved to still constitute a threat to the Palestinians?
* how did this policy fit into the concept of the Endlösung, decided at the Wannsee Conference?Even if the Grand Mufti didn’t participate in the planning of the holocaust, being close to Hitler and the Oberkommando as he was, he must have been aware of these implications, yet he continued to support the Nazi-regime using his moral authority among the Palestinian population and the Arab world.
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ET, there was before the war a Central office for Jewish Emigration (Zentralstelle fuer Juedische Auswanderung) in which first Eichmann and then Heydrich had the leading role. At the Wannsee conference Heydrich noted that over half a million Jews had emigrated between 1933 and 1941. I don’t know how many of those ended up in Palestine. I suspect not many because the Brits didn’t encourage it to say the least. Quite a few went to countries, such as Holland, that later came to be occupied by the Germans – so they had not really escaped them.
At the Wannsee conference, of which the minutes drawn up by Eichmann were only found a few years after the war, there was no longer talk of emigration. The war situation had at any case made that practically impossible. The plan was to use the Jews in the newly occupied Russian territories for things like road building etc. under very harsh conditions so that many of them would be naturally eliminated. The survivors ultimately had to be done away with. When German reverses in the Russian campaign made this plan largely impracticable Jews were sent straight to extermination camps.
The Mufti was not at the Wannsee conference and probably had no clue to what was decided there. I don’t know when these alleged pleas for stopping Jewish migration to Palestine were supposed to have taken place but I suspect that already very early in the war these pleas had become irrelevant because the ‘inner circle’ of which he definitely was not a member had other plans anyway. I would argue that these very pleas signified that he had no clue as to the actual nature of the proposed ‘final solution’.
You say that he was ‘close to Hitler’ – I doubt that very much though great play has been made with a photograph of his meeting with Hitler – but Hitler met many people.
At any case he definitely did not represent the Palestinians at that stage. For one thing contact with that part of the world was then difficult and there was no representative organisation giving him directions.
Comment on “Tifatul Watch I: Adolf Hitler”.
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Yeah, I’m really sure this was “writing about the history of Hitler.”