Discrimination Against Chinese

Sep 27th, 2006, in Society, by

Lee Kuan Yew says there is systematic discrimination against Indonesians of Chinese descent.

The former president of Singapore, as part of a one-hour address at the Raffles Forum, held in conjunction with the IMF-World Bank Meeting in Singapore, reportedly said that the ethnic Chinese minority population in Indonesia, and Malaysia:

Our neighbors both have problems with their Chinese. They [the Chinese] are successful. They are hard working and, therefore, they are systematically marginalized.

and that this was one reason why Singapore, a Chinese majority state, had to be firm against Malaysia and Indonesia.

Lee Kuan Yew
Lee Kuan Yew.

Indonesian politicians were quick to react to these statements. Djoko Susilo of the National Mandate Party (PAN), said Yew was a big liar, and:

We are very upset because it has disgraced Indonesia. We will ask the government to send a letter of protest to Lee.

He said that Chinese people were able to work in any area, including the military.

We even have ministers and MP’s [who are Chinese].

Amris Hassan of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P), bemoaned the harm Lee’s statement would cause to internal Indonesian cohesiveness, and intra-ASEAN relations.

It is very dangerous for our unity because the false feeling of some people here will be justified, and they will think that marginalization really exists. Beside obstructing our bilateral relations, the remarks also hinder the process of establishing the ASEAN community.

Amris said Lee should issue a public apology and explain himself.

October 2nd.

An apology was forthcoming. The Malaysian government’s demanding of such an apology was successful with Lee Kuan Yew saying:

I am sorry that what I said has caused you a great deal of discomfort. ….it is the last thing I wanted.

in a letter to Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.

193 Comments on “Discrimination Against Chinese”

  1. Joni Arief says:

    You are right, Raden!

    I am a ” Malay”, a moslem, I felt very sorry for Arema & others who are traumatize by the discrimative, and all violence faced by the Chinese minority.
    If you consider yourselves Indonesians, please start acting like ones, don’t
    just enjoy the luxuries that Indonesian nationality status has given to you, i.e. passport/ID/bank credit/sales profit. Don’t just live exclusively among yourselves (in Pluit/Kelapa Gading etc), but please mix with the rest of us in Indonesia.
    I must admit that there are many os us who are evil and lazy, but I also belive that most of us are good and hard working people.
    Note: as a comparisson, there are many Chinese who made the head line due to
    their evil deeds, but most of them good people.

    Therefore, if we are a true Indonesian, let us shed away our negative thinking toward others and start to live and work side by side in harmony.
    Otherwise, you are free to use your Indonesia passport to go and live in other
    country(ies) favourable for you. If that is your decision, please don’t forget to
    “get rid” of your Indonesian nationality like Audrey did.

    Let us be wise.

  2. Janma says:

    Joni Arief says

    “If you consider yourselves Indonesians, please start acting like ones, don’t just enjoy the luxuries that Indonesian nationality status has given to you, i.e. passport/ID/bank credit/sales profit. Don’t just live exclusively among yourselves (in Pluit/Kelapa Gading etc), but please mix with the rest of us in Indonesia.”

    I had to have a little laugh about the luxuries that Indonesian nationality status has given to you bit, hee hee. That would be the luxury to be exploited, to enjoy religious and social discrimination, the luxury to loot and pillage without legal ramifications (for Muslim only). The luxury to be excluded from tertiary education (for chinese only) Shall I go on?

    My husband is Chinese Indonesian, his family live in Kelapa Gading and he has all his life tried to fit in and all his friends are pribumi Indonesians who are so nice but behind his back are jealous and critical of him. Living exclusively in Kelapa Gading saved quite a few Chinese Indonesians from being raped and murdered in ’98. So I find it hard to blame them for wanting to live securely in a country that mostly despises them.

    *whose thinking of giving up her shabby Australian passport for a luxurious Indonesian one*

  3. Dimp says:

    Hi Janma,

    *whose thinking of giving up her shabby Australian passport for a luxurious Indonesian one*

    While I am thinking of giving up my “luxurious” Indonesian one for a shabby Australian passport.

  4. Sputjam says:

    Gosh, I wish I had taken the opportunity to hike along the sumatran west coast and tasik TOBA. This guy raden is indeed a lucky sob.

    Seems to me it is indeed a difficult task to bring together people of different upbringings. The Catholics and protestant in northern ireland had just concluded a definitive peace deal after millineums of bickering.

    I cannot understand the animosity between the malays and the chinese other than to relate the experience the red indians suffered during the migration of europeans to the new world in the 17th century.

    Initially, there were numerous indian villages (you can consider this as kampungs) living within the area now known as the americas. as the first wave of european migration (much like the chinese) took place, there were frictions and numerous misunderstandings. The europeans brought along with them their animal livestock and pests, diseases. On caribbean islands, and along the eastern coasts, the indian tribes were wiped out, partly by disease, partly due to disputes and the europeans God given rights to destroy unbeilevers and confiscate their land. Presently, only a minute fraction of the indians survived in reservations. This holocaust was seldom mentioned in history except maybe in hollywood where john Wayne portrayed as the cowboy hero who destroys evil natives. This destruction of less developed natives did not occur in the americas alone, but also in australia and to a lesser extent, in new zealand and south africa.

    In south east asia, the europeans did not proceed to violently seize the natives land because of our climate which is too hot and humid. If will be very much different if we had a cool and pleasant climate.

    When the chinese came to south east asia in droves, neither the chinese, nor the natives were violent. There was no recorded war between these two races. reason for non-conflict, probably due to europeans dominating local politics.

    After achieving independence, the friction is most volatile in moslem majority areas, whereas in Buddhist societies like Thailand, Myanmar and Cambodia, the chinese assimilated well probably due to similar beliefs, much like Arabs and indian moslem descents assimilated well in moslem majority countries.

    Upon the europeans leaving the area, the locals filled the power vaccum. Hence different point of view arised whereby chinese wants meritocracy and more opportunities to succeed while the malays wants to preserve their status as the pribumi with their way of life retained, just like the good old days.

    Even in japan, the samurais eventually vanished during the industrial revolution, as they got deeper and deeper into debt trying to keep to their elite way of life and ended up being in debt by a huge amount to the new ruling class, the merchants.

    The chinese excel in areas of commerce as they have their networks, much like the europeans, when they colonise the americas have theirs.

    Also, observe the equatorial countries. None have achieved the so called developed status except for Singapore, a country administered by people from the northern states. I think climate and environment also have an influence on how people behave.

    If it had been God’s will, he could have made us all similar. But He made us all different so that we could learn from each other. So forget the differences and embrace humanity.

  5. Andrew says:

    Read (and watch) Guns, Germs & Steel by Jared M. Diamond.
    It’s not a exact science, it may not be 100% correct, but it is a logical, scientific attempt to explain why certain races excel above others.

  6. Raden says:

    Jony wrote :

    If you consider yourselves Indonesians, please start acting like ones, don’t just enjoy the luxuries that Indonesian nationality status has given to you, i.e. passport/ID/bank credit/sales profit. Don’t just live exclusively among yourselves (in Pluit/Kelapa Gading etc), but please mix with the rest of us in Indonesia.

    You want to know the luxuries holding Indonesian Passport and you are chinese? The privilege to be burnt, raped, stoning till death like the 13 – 16 May 1998. Why people like Jony always accuse all chinese Indonesian becoming rich because of corruption & unlawful business conducts ?

    How about Lapindo Brantas?
    How about Bakrie?
    How about Medco Energy?
    How about Yusril Mahesa the so called it Muslim high profile youth leader?
    How about….

    Today we celebrate the 9th Years ago of the 13 May 1998 social unrest targeted to the Indonesian chinese, is this the privilege you meant by holding green passport? From the color itself it is very Middle Easterners suck.

  7. Nickels says:

    I’m Chinese-Indonesian. Am I discriminated against? Of course. Whenever I wish to join anything government related, a significant background check is imperative; the purpose is to determine whether somewhere along my ancestral lines my great, great grandfather was naturalized … well, really, the aim is to not find any reason to (not) suspect me as a potential spy working for the PRC — it is quite candid to think that even if my grandfather was not naturalize what would make that a strong enough reason to believe that I am in favor of the PRC?.

    Now, am I concerned with such a treatment? Of course. But I think a lot of other things anger me also, if not more. Such as the implied religious commitment to Islam when it comes to joining a substantial governing post; you have to be a Muslim to lead in the government. The lack of consideration for disabled people; the lack of disability access which builds the emphasis on ability, and thus disability is frowned upon. All of this is in no way to attack either Islam or the Pribumi race, or any other beliefs. All I’m suggesting is that there are discriminations using such propositions: Religion/Faith, and racial profile/ethnicity as the pretext to discriminate. The blame is not in the propositions used, it is on the motive behind the discriminations in itself; which I would argue as the struggle to preserve an established power. But let’s not expatiate on that matter.

    Instead, I am merely suggesting that there are heaps of discriminations in Indonesia. Lee Kuan Yew simply picked one and brought it up for the major press consumption. Realistically speaking, we really have a lot of work to do in Indonesia. The work is not to focus on just one particular discrimination. And there is no saying that this particular discrimination in insignificant. As a matter of fact, any blatant case of discrimination is significant. We have to treat all of it as symptoms of a larger concern: the inculcated, institutionalized and crystallized ignorance. We have to bring forth consciousness to the minds of our citizens. This require opening up old wounds. We have to first acknowledge that there are problems: we have festering wounds that are infecting the minds of our precious citizens, and thus restrict our society from attaining a better future . Now if we really do want to achieve this better future, the more promising and unified existence, we have to be honest and sincere in our intent in solving these problems. Such a determination, likewise I’ve stated in my other comments on other thread, requires sincere open-mindedness. Until we are all courageous enough, and modest enough to grant such an open-mindedness to foster the willingness to ameliorate our country, we can kiss the better future goodbye.

    We’ve had this choice for a long time: Do we want to open up our wounds and let it be treated properly? But somehow we haven’t really come up with any collective answer. Some of us want to. But unfortunately we do have interest-groups that are very much in power, and, moreover, the groups are also very much interested in preserving a form of status quo. Opening the wounds, for these interest-groups, would definitely challenge the stability of the status quo; it is something that is not favorable. It is admittedly a challenge to tackle these groups as much as it is a challenge to generate the collective willingness to do so. So what do we do next? Educate!

    We have to inoculate our minds from ignorance. We have to learn to accept that no other claim is stronger than the other. No one (race) is better than the rest. No one concern is more important than any other concern. The claim of importance, of prominence is deep-rooted in the claim of absolute significance, absolute power. The struggle to power, to rule, to control others for the purpose of a singular righteousness is the source of all injustice. We have to learn to co-exist; not to rule. This is a lot to begin with. But for peace, and care … I think it’s worth it. And after all, even though we are ‘one’, we have to still remember that this one is made up of many. Remember Bhineka Tunggal Ika. We must remember that we are one nation, but we also must not forget that we have differences, and the struggle is in reconciling these differences in order to live together as one. Reconcile I say; not obliterate.


  8. Raden says:

    Who say that Indonesian Chinese are dominating the resources? That was in the good old days. No more. SBY cabinet have changed the economy landscape progressively. Want example?
    BP Migas who controlled the acreage tender for Nusantara’s oil fields had put up 22 unproven fields in open tender last year. Out of 14 successful bidders only 2 are foreigners and the 12 are pribumi companies, the rest did not have any international takers because they scared with Indonesia mixed policy. Since decentralization law takes in place the local authorities demand % age in shares out of the successful production in the future. To dig our soils & start making well test will need foreign capital injection of $10 – $25 M per well, so you can imagine this industry is capital intensive & very risky.
    You can say that Indo is a ‘gemah ripah loh jinawi’ country but it will not get materialize if we are keep on lacking technology, know how & capital. Those foreign investors are scared with Indonesia new trend: the Muslim militant thinking. I burn you if I hate you!

    In this case I do not comment on how unready, stupid & naive are those local pribumi oil company like Lapindo Brantas, Medco, & EAP group that belong to Bakrie, they destroy Porong because of their stupidity. See, the pribumi are given a lot of concession & big chance but the mind is lazy & stupid, can’t get it done well. Who to blame? Blame on ourself lah, don’t look a scape goats again.

    Lets get rid of MUSLIM MILITANT THINKING because this is the real danger & the main obstacle of Indonesia Jaya.

  9. Raden says:

    Dear readers: any comments?
    Or affraid to comments?
    The summary of my points:
    – Today business climate in SBY cabinet, the pribumi are benefiting in every segments, the euphoria of concession/ support / assistance especially in BP Migas decision to award acreage oil fields concession.
    – We have the data since the 2004, out of 22 new acreages tender, the majority winner are pribumi local companies
    – Opportunities are given but the fact that Indonesia crude oil reserves keep on declining year to year, production output also declining, we only hope British Petroleum successfully will make full production in Tangguh Wiriagar Irian Jaya in 2008 for more gas and Exxon in Cepu for more Crude Oils. Again those 2 are the giant USA & UK companies
    – Where are the contribution of Lapindo Brantas? being indegineous company, instead of making new oil production but drilling mistakenly & created catasthropee. We want the new oils but Lapindo give us million tons of mud.

    [deleted by admin – Comments Policy]

  10. Raden says:

    Wow, I just realized if my further write-up were censored by the admin of this website. Yo yo yo, this website is chicken.

    If we discussed about government’s policy to discriminate the chinese Indonesian then this topic is open for discussion. But if we discussed about what is going on with BP Migas policy & output (kinerja) then it is censored (being curtailed?).
    Wow, why should we discuss about chinese discrimination? I am more interested to bring up the matters related to how good is the current governance in Indonesia.

    Who to blame that Indonesia is not progressive country? This website is also suck! I mean the admin is suck!

  11. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Raden, Patung do not want his office to be raided by secret police. FPI might even pay him a visit to get some names and addresses.

  12. Sputjam says:

    I think negative comments made on private companies may trigger a legal process against the blog and writer. Nothing to do with free speech.
    During nineteen seventies, United Kingdom sucks. Rich britons were migrating to tax havens (much like indon chinese do today), unions were on strike almost every week, british owned companies were going belly up due to militant unions and rigid labour laws.
    Then came Margaret Thatcher. And within two terms in office, she altered every facet of british life, which every britons should be thankful till today. Britons cannot be bothered, unlike Indonesian malays, on who owns what assets in their country. If you have the money, anybody, including foerigners can own a piece of britain. The list of foriegn owned football clubs may include Manchester city, being eyed by Thaksin, the previous premier of thailand.
    Companies in britain are marketing houses and land to be sold to foreigners as investment.
    Indonesia can definitely follow Thatcher’s path. This will lead to higher standard of living by attracting foreign money into the country.
    The country that attracts the biggest investors is not china, but the US. Liberal policies and enthusiastic locals are what attract investors.

  13. Raden says:

    So do you think if we discussed about Lapindo Brantas is a taboo here?
    Everyone in petroleum industry will look down on Indonesia, we loose face to international world, it proves that there are so much deficiencies, distortion in our economy & law. If an oil co drilled our soils at 3 thousand feets depth without our ministry & gov’t aware of they did it without casing?

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha….. silly Indonesian & silly the policy who always take side to pribumi,
    Now what, do we want to bring the famous Muslim militants to burn Lapindo Brantas? Then why the militants almost burnt Exxon in Aceh? So we hate the american but incapable of finding new oil reserves?

    Ha ha ha ha ….. what can we do now? Shall we say Allahu Akbar we will burn Lapindo Brantas? ha ha ha ha.

  14. Dragonwall says:

    I find the squabbling between a few of them to be somewhat boring. Most of all they tried to be outspoken and not disriminative but in fact they are themself like wolf in a sheep skin.
    Hassan, Ram, Singapore Malays, Cuku and all those who said Singapore’s LKY is discriminative against the Malay. Is he? How long have you stayed in Singapore and have you been to Singapore? When were you last in Singapore.

    I am a Singaporean who witnessed how the Malays from Malaysia walked into Singapore in the 50’s where may Chinese perish during the riot. Was anyone of you guys there at that time? The Chinese in Singapore wanted to retaliate in anger but was stopped from crossing the causeway by riot police. In fact the Singapore Government did stopped one of the worst holocaust from hapenning, is that discriminative?

    How was the Singapore Chinese discriminative towards the minority? You name it! In every sector private or governmental, in fact some department where the Malays outnumbered the Chinese. We have a Malay President, An Indian President, Minister, armed force, police, government office. can you name me one that does not have a Malay in it?

    When your minds are free from encumberance and distorted feelings, you tend to see better and evaluate situation in a broader scope rather than being unable to sleep when being commented of being discriminative against the Chinese. Of cource militants are not excepted in few of Indonesia’s orchestrated SRCC.

    Raden above all you are trying to impart your drilling knowledge to a topic of discrimination.
    I live in Indonesia from late 80’s till now. My wife is Indonesian Chinese and my children are Indonesian born. On 11 May 1998 I was away for business meeting abroad and watched CNN broadcast what hapenned between that day till 19 May when everyone was trying to leave Indonesia, I flew back to see if Amin Rais had carried out his promise of a million to take part in the long march. Nothing hapenned because I find this people to be provocator trying to indoctrinate fear in the Indonesian and panic to society. Are you able to tell the world who are the provocators? Who orchestrated the SRCC? Could you guys recalled what Habibie said in public when he was elected ad hoc President? What Aburizal Bakries said? What Jusuf Kalla said? I suppose you guys tend to condone such an act by political leaders! So in comparison to what LKY said which has been proven many times over to be a fact but often denied. If Indonesia is smart. If the pribumis are smart. If the political leaders in Indonesia are smart. They should act by eleminating all those discriminative political leaders and do a proper revamp in government office (I mean all) to create a new Indonesia. So where do they start we have to ask SBY. You should see where those police were hiding themselves and being away from the SRCC. You should see how those plainclothes ABRI taking part in the May 13-15 incidents. I had my family telling me how they witness they saw the Sampoerna Mall went up in flame. I had my workers telling me how the Pasar Cengkareng being devasted in ruins.

    Cuku even said he address a group of people at a train depot in Surabaya and for this I really suspect that you might be one of the provocator.

    As to a comment saying that there are many Malay beggars in Singapore. I am sure you could find more Chinese beggars outnumbering the Malays. In fact the Malays are much pampered in Singapore than being discriminated.

    Many cannot accept the fact that when they are being outsmart by evading the mainstream. There were reports that a group of activist of HAM handling the investigations on the may 13-15 rape and were most of the silenced, by whom? And why? Afraid that the fact may arise to cause political damage to certain group of people? Why is Munir being silenced? Who set him up?
    If you guys may have read the Media Indonesia May’s edition headlining a new form of discrimination had just evolved out of nowhere.

    SBY is a bright person but his hands are tied. Indonesia had embarked on a road to mission impossible, that is to eradicate discrimination. Discrimination will persist for generations to come no matter how many President is in office.

    Many had hated Soeharto for his so called “Dictatory Rule”. But I find that during the Soeharto era that is the kind of security, peace and prosperity Indonesians ought to have. Not bicker about today.

  15. Dragonwall says:

    Oops When I mentioned in the earlier blog at the train depot Cuku (sorry) I ought to mean Aluang Anak Bayang.
    The way Aluang (The Shadow’s Son) put his words and how throughout his transpiration with Cuku, if read carefully will, make him more like an agitator.
    But anyway Cukurungan (I suppose it meant Cukup dikurungan=being caged is enough) said “The Arab are lazy but smart who had Korean, Japanese, Chinese working under their foot while our brothers and sisters were being treated like slaves“. For that, did they apply for the job at an agreed salary when contracted? How well do you know the legality in contract? You also mentioned “we pribumi just was waiting the correct times to strike and burn you, we weren’t blinded people and we saw what you’re doing in this country” This mean that you are also part of those not only discriminate the Chinese, but perhaps even took part in the riot. You also mentioned about the Chinese being extravagance, how come? The same thing will be with you if you have earned a lot of money you also want to pampered yourself and your family with something as a rewards to your hard work. Are they not allowed? Are you disallowed? NO.
    Ram certainly had displayed his arrogance both in speech and favoritism is this aspect. How many Chinese are there in DPR, police etc etc. For you to say LKY is too old it’s okay, that’s respect. But “ngaca dulu” I think you are the one that should be looking yourself in the mirror before commenting on someone whose family educational background and political experience far exceeds your imagination.
    As for Dhita who highlighted that Singapore had took advantage of 200 million odd Indonesian, how so? Did Indonesia gave Singapore a helping hand or is it the other way round. You lack the touch up on the macro side.
    Hasaan touched up on in the 60’s when Singapore Chinese minority was transformed into majority. How true was that did you look up the census and the population records in the history of Singapore. You certainly didn’t but perhaps hearsay. Singapore all the while had a Chinese majority after Chief Minister David Marshall when Lim Yew Hock when the latter was impeached. Singapore had slim lined and had their populations controlled. Did you hear of Singapore Government encouraging their educated citizens to have more kids? Nothing was mentioned of Malays being opted out.Was Singapore Malays being neglected? Do you know how many Malays in Singapore are well educated? Were they part of the program? Yes they do.
    Rudy hendra is getting agitated and speaks more like Habibie.
    As for Sputjam I like the way you display yourself liberals.
    Those that were spotlighted, please allow me to impart this. One must know what they are talking about and instead of making yourself look like a clown being a mediocre. It is the intelligence in oneself that make you excel and not waiting for handout and it is the fittest that gets the top post. There is nothing to be jealous about. While I was abroad my daughter, while schooling, uses her own savings and started doing business. She was 14 at that time and she spent her free time helping others. All these while me and my wife were not by her side. she makes her own decision to help those earthquake victims, tsunamis etc, but of course she seek our consent.
    I am almost in my 60. When in the Singapore military, I trained soldiers and was in the same camp as LKY’s son, Singapore’s current Prime Minister. When I stepped into Indonesia I started from scratch and with some money I did some business and later I was a CEO in a huge factory in Surabaya and besides that I personally set up a chemical plant in Jakarta and because of the riot we lost everything. (Please don’t feel sorry for me because I don’t and in fact I am proud that I dare face such a catastrophe and my family was prepared to fight for it although all in I lost approximately US1.5 mil) I left Indonesia to start all over again.
    One can envy instead of being jealous. it is jealousy that brought disgrace to themselves, because they didn’t work for it and expected to get what they thought they deserve to. Please don’t get me wrong I am more Indonesian than Singaporean and I speaks Indonesian better than you ever expect.
    Tell anyone that you expected to get something you didn’t work for and they tell you fly a kite. When you guys mentioned the Chinese did not mixed with the Pri is absolutely rubbish and stop telling them to do so because they have already did.
    I am currently working in a law firm so feel free to go on the blog but talk sense then it will make things more interesting and meaningful.

  16. Sputjam says:

    As for Sputjam I like the way you display yourself liberals.

    I try to be above race and religion. That way, you see everything in technicolour. Some of my best friend are Singaporeans of every creed and colour. Unfortunately, like you, I lost everything in 1997 financial disaster, and now trying to go into development projects in jakarta.

    To understand the riots, you have to understand malay mentality. They are easily influenced by anyone claiming to be a religious leader or a man fighting for his race.
    And these leaders know that. How else can the word “amok” used extensively in english, actually originates from the malay language.

    Dr. mahathir is an expert in this. He can cheat the malay masses in malaysia simply by stating he is fighting for malay rights. A new book just published blamed the 1969 riots on malay “ultras” like mahathir, who created disturbances in order to force the liberal “Tunku Abdul Rahman” from his position as PM, a coup of some sorts.

    Presently, it is normal for malay politicians in malaysia, to treat malays like fools, saying that certain projects are for the malay’s benefit, when in actual fact, it benefits only the politicians and their cronies.

  17. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Hi Dragonwall, if I am ‘spotlighted’, let me say this. You are looking from your side of the fence. Of course Singaporean wouldn’t care about Javaneses massacred during the pogrom of the 60s? I have extended families who were murdered simply for having Chinese associations, my grandpa was tortured for having one too many trip to China, and an aunty committed suicide after she found out that her family were gone. I wasn’t even born then, but this is story related to me by my grandpa. Yes, I was at the station trying to get the crowd attention. I had a cameramen with me, and this recording was a favor for a family member’s friend who looked too Chinese to dare venture out. Unfortunately, the roll was not selected by the news firm he worked at as it didn’t have the hype they wanted.

    I am a Singaporean who witnessed how the Malays from Malaysia walked into Singapore in the 50’s where may Chinese perish during the riot. Was anyone of you guys there at that time? The Chinese in Singapore wanted to retaliate in anger but was stopped from crossing the causeway by riot police. In fact the Singapore Government did stopped one of the worst holocaust from hapenning, is that discriminative?

    The Singaporean government stopped the Chinese from getting over to Malaysia for their own safety. The Malays were in the majority, how could a small group of Singaporean Chinese created a holocaust? It is the other way round. This is simply arrogance in your inference.

    Let us be fair minded on this. When it comes to savagery, nothing beat the Malays. The Chinese are family oriented and they would not commit harakiri by fighting the Malays. If they have a bomb or a firearm in their hand, that is another story, but to chop, hack and slice, you need religious zombies and they had Islam on their side. Yes, this is getting boring if you start pointing fingers in every direction.

    One more thing ..

    The way Aluang (The Shadow’s Son) put his words and how throughout his transpiration with Cuku, if read carefully will, make him more like an agitator.

    Dear Dragonwall, when you talk to a cat, you meow, you talk to dog, you woof, a pig, you oink. Where else in this blog you find me engaging with another poster in that manner?

    You see the provocative tone and analysed it correctly. By the way it is obvious and you don’t need an understanding of English literature to know the sarcasm of my exchange with Bro Cuk. Thank you for reading, and if you don’t find it amusing, perhap the textual of written English in your law firm is way above all this. You are too serious.

  18. Dragonwall says:

    Aluang anak Bayang I am not too sure if there is a misconception in meaning than words being used as pointing fingers. When something is directed it is being directed to the topic itself. But the more you go into the subject it seemed that not only sacarcsm but the sort of unexplainable arrogance and or favoritism or perhaps admiration of those so called martyr, sorry to say, like “if it comes to savagery nothing beats the Malays” “but to chop, hack and slice you need religious zombies and they had islam on their side”.

    You did did mentioned was I there at that time, YES I was and some of our neighbors became victims to that. Where it took place was at the Old Kallang Airport nearby Paya Lebar. Like I said one should look up the census to understand Singapore’s population make up.

    Like I had also said my wife is Indonesian Chinese and all my kids are Indonesian born and I considered myself more Indonesian than Singaporean reason being that I have adapted the Javanese culture for almost 20 years. Most of my time in Indonesia I am throughout Java. From Jakarta, Surabaya, Solo, Malang, Jember.

    Till this day there is a huge factory sitting somewhere out there in Java that my boss owns waiting to rot.

    So do I know the Javanese culture?

    We are on this blog, bringing up incidents and reminiscing what had hapenned in our lifetime. The damage it brought to our daily life. Look at Jakarta and how many percent of those ruined during the riots went back to life? If you are in Jakarta you should know, if not drive around Jakarta and look at places like Daan Mogot, Angke, Klender, Glodok, Jembatan Besi, Tomang, Pinangsia and many many place in Cirebon, Medan, Palembang, Kalimantan etc etc.

    There are some that even said the riot was not widespread.

    These are lessons we ought to keep in mind and understand how the situations exploded into catastrophe. Many Indonesians are influenced, YES or perhaps prior to the riot some were receiving handouts of between Rp5,000 to Rp20,000 to take part in the riot. I stayed at the Mandarin Hotel and I watched each day during the demonstration how the public were coerced and induce into taking part in those demonstration and they are like clock work, military precision.

    The Indonesians in general public knew themselves that it was a mistake to have the riot because they are the one who lost in the end. Each and every one of them are suffering in the presence of uncontrollable hyperinflation, diminishing values in the Rupiahs and the high cost of livings.

    Do we hope for that to hapenned again? My answer is NO, but to someone else I am unsure of the answer!

    In Singapore it was already well managed because most of them are educated and not easily influenced and coerced. In Malaysia it was also well managed except like some said most of the Malays were being fooled by Dr Mahatir and continue to be spoon fed. The one great fear Dr. Mahatir feared was his prodigy Anwar when he was suppressed in criminal detention. If it had been Anwar instead of Badawi the development in Malaysia would have been brought into a new era.

    It is now that through this blog that the whole world hoped that those in political office in Indonesia is able to see this blog and the topic discussed and to ensure nothing of that sort happened again.

    How they could revamp the macro economy, do somthing about the micro economy and hold inflation under control.

    To coax private and government sector to ensure public servant and employees had their income raise to a certain level to zero out inflation by providing concessions for them to institute the raise.

    I am sure SBY is having a bad time with those bad hood in his cabinet. There must be stern action taken to remedy and console those victims right before their eyes.
    To make good use of international aid, foreign loans instead of falling into those bad hoods.
    So once again I am not bickering by pointing fingers but directing on things said in public discussions.

    One more thing the government is expecting or perhaps anticipate a time bomb waiting to explode in Indonesia.

    An Al Qaeda associate who master mind the bombimg gets away with 2 years in confinement? What will he do next! Is he stopping? The answer is NO.
    Things could be brewing, who knows when, where, why and how.
    Laws in other countries will incarcerate those participating in such incidents. Is Indonesia able to do that?

  19. Aluang Anak Bayang says:


    Aluang anak Bayang I am not too sure if there is a misconception in meaning than words being used as pointing fingers. When something is directed it is being directed to the topic itself.

    I read Cuk’s exchanges in this topic, but only just read Hassan, Ram and Singapore Malays postings out of curiosity. Misconception or no misconception, next time you align me with any of these traitors, I will not hesistate to reciprocate. The arrongance shown in your novelle left alot to be desired.

    But the more you go into the subject it seemed that not only sacarcsm but the sort of unexplainable arrogance and or favoritism or perhaps admiration of those so called martyr, sorry to say, like “if it comes to savagery nothing beats the Malays” “but to chop, hack and slice you need religious zombies and they had islam on their side”.

    Gee, I can only think of the age gap difference. You watch CSI, I watch Simpson and South Park.

    Next time someone patted on your back and said, “Ah Kong ar, you are a great pedophile”. Only a deviant will feel exalted.

    You did did mentioned was I there at that time, YES I was and some of our neighbors became victims to that. Where it took place was at the Old Kallang Airport nearby Paya Lebar. Like I said one should look up the census to understand Singapore’s population make up.

    (in bold)??? Did I ask a question?

    O I see, the (?) on the 3rd sentence of the first paragraph. For f**k sake, it is a typo. And you wrote an essay in response to that!

  20. Raden says:

    Dragonwall, it hardly believes if you are truly a Singaporean who is living in Indonesia for 20+ years & despite all the anti chinese & discriminative acts there, you still hang-on there?
    You are very familiar with all those crab about chinese & pribumi, how hopeless our new gov’t, law disorder, corruption, etc. WHY DO you CHOSE TO STAY IN INDONESIA? I pity you because you made decision to live there but disgruntle all the time, you must be very unhappy living in Indo, why not get either yourself or your doughters out from the riot rich country like Indonesia?

  21. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Dragonwall, you wrote,

    The way Aluang (The Shadow’s Son) put his words …..

    Then you wrote,

    But anyway Cukurungan (I suppose it meant Cukup dikurungan=being caged is enough)…..

    Regarding (The Shadow’s Son), are you insinuating something? Care to explain more?

  22. Sputjam says:

    The tragedy about malaysia is that to win votes, every budding politicians must show their desire to spoon feed the malays, which means more votes in party elections. It is a perpetual spiral downwards.
    In the umno youth, even that is not enough. They have to tell non-bumis that they will face a river of death if malay rights and benefits are questioned. And the chap who made the speech was given a huge ovation (made me and millions others sick).
    The PM did not reprimand any of the hate speakers. What a tragedy.
    Several years ago, there was a racial clash between Hindus of indian origin and malays in Kg. medan, near KL. And you know what, soldiers from nearby army camp joined in and a massacre took place. Nobody was punished in the incident and the whole thing was covered up.
    To show how competitive malays are in Malaysia, celcom, a malay managed telco was number one and the first to obtain mobile license. Then it became number two, when a sri lankan malaysian owned maxis came into the picture. Now it is third in the market after Digi, a norwegian owned mobile telco. The other malay managed telco’s that sunk and was bailed out – Adam (owned by sapura, a mahathir crony).
    The only way malays managed to get any jobs is through a government owned or linked companies, or by enforcement, whereby companies such as shell/exxon-mobil are required to hire a certain percentage of bumis.
    However, badawi should be commended for enforcing meritocracy in education and scholarships and tolerance towrds free speech and dissent. But with 90% of the guardian in the education department (admin/lecturers/teachers) are made up of malays after mahathir’s ethnic cleansing, I wonder if it would be fairly enforced.

    But I have some positive things to say about malaysia social engineering though. It lessen the gap between the rich non-malays and the poor malays so much so that many malays now say that the spoon feeding should stop. It is the non-bumis who now have feelings of envy towards the malays who have benefitted from government assistance and this is not good for the country in the long run. In the old days, it was the other way round.

    Now that the field is probably level, meritocracy should prevail.

    Oh and lastly, you should not worry about “the shadow”. In his younger days, he loves sushi, and he is as described in the west, a “chink lover”. Pardon my expression.

  23. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    LOL @ Sputjam. Sushi lover, maybe yes, but not chink lover. I give credit when it is due.

    Indonesia’s finest son is nursing his bruised ego from being ambushed and kinghitted by you-know-who. One can be compared to anything but not to criminals and traitors. I am ready to switch to war mode.

  24. Dragonwall says:

    For F**k sake you are getting agitated by often using profanity and intimidation, the word “f**k it’s a typo” and “Patung” going into “war mode”. I suppose you are in you early or mid 20’s and is currently not in Indonesia or perhaps maybe in the US or some western countries doing education, learning more and using bombastic words like “islam by their side” “traitors”, “reciprocate” and so on. It’s beginning to switch from debate to exchange of word, then calling names, then intimidating and then threats. Want my phone number and address? Or will I be “chop, hacked and slice like the Malays and zombies with Islam on their side”?

    When a person express themself in public forum whether you read or meant to be and made comments then you expressly meant it in general.

    Oh as for “care to explain” yes. Doesn’t that “anak bayang” literally translate into “shadow’s son”?

    And the way things were being put was like you were neither that but you actually were.
    I suppose there is not only an age gap but also generation gap when you already said I watch CSI while you watch Simpsons and South Park. These two in plain language simply doesn’t click becuase you were incinuating that I am more for violence than you is to humors.
    When you called “akong’ this is respect, so whether is he a pedophile is for me to know and for you to find out.

    Oh thank you, because I am glad you like the essay. Does that ticks you?

    Raden, don’t pity someone on your own opinion. I don’t even bat an eye when I lost 1.5 mil under forced circumstance while another factory is waiting to rot somewhere out there in Indonesia. Raden don’t get me wrong I am already out of Indonesia and though my kids are Indonesian I will be getting them out very soon. I told them that they could take a flight anytime to visit their relatives in Singapore.

    As to what you commented that i decided to live on in Indonesia and is disgruntled. I don’t cry over spill milk. As for your “riot rich Indonesia” you are implying that I/we capitalized on the riot or rich Indonesia? There are many people who made claims and state that the Chinese capitalized on the Pri’s. I don’t, I start from scratch. I do franchise business, start my own chemical factory while on the other hand handled a huge factory from empty land, a restaurant and property business for my boss. Of course there are people helping me. I started two chain of restaurants in the US before I decided to call it quits.

    Sputjam like I said I like the way you put things in a moderate and liberal term. We should have more people like you in this blog rather than those who tend to vent their anger nuturing their lost ego.

    Sputjam I need your advice. Do you know things like humiliation to oneself and being a sore loser? Appreciate you advice because there is someone out there ready to go to war in reciprocity but they stop short of knowing what criminal charges is for threats and misdemeanor for being discriminative.

  25. Raden says:

    Dragonwall, frankly the franchize & chemical business you have brought up so far in Indonesia is nothing when you think about you & your family have to compromise your chinese value tradition & freedom of thinking by living in the ‘riot rich Indonesia’ who dominated by corrupt, Muslim militant thinking DPR and leaders.

    I have not finished my sentences yesterday because my wife do not like to see me wasting of my time in this forum.

    We have surrendered our green passport for another developed country right after the 98 riot, we have come to a point that if you can only play as mediocre businessman (own restaurants, small factories, etc) in Indonesia, it is not worthed at all!

    See how Bakrie, Panigoro are playing in Indonesia, see how Adam Air can tweak to get their license in Indonesia, the smaller players are just a bunch of losers. I am sure you can reestablish the same in Singapore, Johor, Sydney, etc., don’t you? Just to achieve those mediocre achievements you DO NOT NEED INDONESIA.

    Our riot rich Indonesia do not need hard workers businessman, their ali-baba model are those world-class caliber one, like those playing in BLBI, Oil&Gas, etc. The model is ‘sama-sama’ senang, unfortunately our Muslim pribumi brothers can only blame on the baba players, they are forgotten that the Ali’s licensee are humongous predators which will bring this country sinking down to the drain.

  26. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Arrogance, arrogance. Respect is something that you earn. It is just like social science, Newton’s 3rd law.

    Good, I prefer short story to novella. I can still stomach novella, but if you intend to write a novel to bore me to death, then you win. I will address you as ‘Ah Kong’ since we both agree this is respectful. To those who don’t know what this means, it is Chinese for ‘Grandpa’ but also a proclivility in Chinese society to address someone older and wiser. In this case, he is older, but wiser, we will have to find out.

    I will respond to Ah Kong’s insults tonight, as I have better things to do right now. Before we have any real discussion, Ah Kong has to get down to Ground Zero. I will dismantle his rags-to-riches tales and touches some Achilles heel facts that Ah Kong would not want us to know. Truth sometimes hurt but I am a truth seeker. However I am open to correction and any Indo or Singaporean Chinese can be judge.

    I will start with ‘lunk chow untung’ to jerk Ah Kong off his comfort zone. I bet Indo Chinese will laugh at this as they already know what I am about to comment tonight. For those who don’t know, it literally translate as ‘lucky dick’ in English.


  27. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Hi Ah Kong, would you like to tell us truthfully on how you started from scatch in Indonesia? If you don’t, you are being unfair to the earlier Indon-Chinese migrants and perhap, a little selfish. The earlier Chinese came to the Malay archipelagos centuries ago on rickety boats were fortune seekers and pioneers. Most came with only the clothes they had on, and these people actually started from scatch. But for you to compare yourself to these successful people, you are insulting our intelligence.

    Rags-to-riches, yes I agree, but not the way you want your audiences to believe in. Decades ago, Singapore was already a thriving country with a booming economy. Probably the most successful country after Brunei in South East Asia. Indonesia was a 3rd world country with depreciating rupiah back then (and also now). Young Ah Kong from lucky Singapore came to 3rd world Indonesia to seek his fortune. How hilarious!

    Indon-Chineses are known to be filthy rich. There was a very conspicuous phrase among poor Chinese Malaysian and Singaporean, ‘Short-cut to riches, go to Indonesia, marry a Indon-Chinese girl’. I believe this to be your ulterior motive when you first step foot on our shore. I might be wrong, but hey, the odd against me is almost negligible.

    lunk chow untung or lucky dick may be too harsh a sobriquet, but this is exactly the tag given by Indon-Chinese to latter-day fortune seekers from neighboring Singapore and Malaysia who strike it rich here. I will leave this to you to explain how you get to where you are now. Your arrogance is overpowering and you need to get down from seventh heaven before we can actually discuss something. Self-inflated egoism or braggadocio, I would say.

    Indonesia’s finest son

  28. Dragonwall says:

    Raden I am not too sure whether you are condoning those predators who gain their wealth through corruption or robbing from the Indonesian. Like you mentioned Bakrie and Panigoro it seemed that there are lot of praise for them as a great number of those are world class caliber one model and are big players. But fortunately you still remember that Indonesia is sinking for what they have done and manipulating BLBI etc etc.

    I suppose it was those “mediocre businessman” that were within the few percentage of the Chinese Indo population that had controlled over 90 percent of Indonesia’s economy before jealousy sets in with the premeditated and orchestrated SRCC by those at protocol level.
    Oh yeah, I am already out of Indonesia and I have no intention whatsoever to remain but we are waiting to dispose of our assets before bringing our kids out of there. I am not prepare to have my family exposed to such circumstances and or discrimination from what you said “corrupt, Muslim thinking militant DPR and leaders”. LUCKY YOU.

    This forum which started out with discussion on discrimination and gradually it defrayed into personal and now private.

    Aluang anak Bayang, I think patung’s mentality though a little more educated is still obsessed, like you called other traitors, with the discriminative onset in you. As for your Newton’s 3rd Law, when you called me Akong, I like it and like I said its respect so I earned it right!. You are getting pissed of because you felt you have been insulted.

    I would say you are “lunk chow lucky” = “dick lucky” unlike the Indo Chinese that does not receive any handouts from the government. Anyway it is not about how you can dismantled your so call rag to riches story but to savy your curiosity let me say this.

    I was assigned to Indonesia by my Singapore employer for a marketing project and in the process of my work I got to know a Chinese girl from Medan and married her in Jakarta. Her parents owned a small shoe store there but when I married her their shoe business already went bankrupt. I was later recruited to join another marketing project by an Indonesian company involving S*** Games, Indonesia F*** T** A**, SHIA etc.

    After that stint I was invited by two Singapore friends and started a franchise business, unfortunately I cannot mention names because the business still exist, which we rake in S$500,000 within two months and a year and half later we sold the business to a local Chinese businessman.

    Because of my business experience and exposure in Indonesia a ROC company based in HK who owns franchise stores throughout ROC and associated with a large public listed company in HK with a monthly output of HK500 mil to China not Indonesia. They decided to set up a factory in Indonesia to manufacture for export and I was recruited by my uncle who handles the GH Hotel in ROC and the MH in Jakarta both owned by Singapore based company. With a local Chinese businessman who owns several banks like BWK and HB, commercial and apartment building both local and abroad, also manages the MM. A PMA was set up and the ROC partner paid me in HK HK$40,000 a month. My wife works as an accountant in an Indonesian top 100 company. I then with the consent of my boss set up a chemical factory in Serang, with no conflict of business interest, and let my in law runs it. I also took care of several properties in MH in Kuningan, Pd Indah, Simprug and his banking investments. Like I said there is a factory waiting to rot! All loans pertinent to that or my own factory were all paid for in full and that was how I incurred that loss.

    I said I started from scratch not rag to riches Patung, so try dismantle me with your “lunk chow lucky” sort of mentality because the odds is against you.

    See how I scratch.

    I am not sure if the FPI or BIA place you in this blog to uncover and gather info and subject others to persecution for commenting on the topic of discrimination.

    I cannot expose the names in Indonesia because all those who are very prominently linked.
    I am pretty sure there are a great number of Chinese who are very rich, but I am unsure if they are filthy or have been “riot rich prior to the BLBI setting in.

    So forget the crap on the motive of thinking that every Chinese that set foot in Indonesia tends to “want to get rich, marry a Chinese Indon girl” kind of concept Patung.
    I can disclose those in the US just to let you know that the Chinese mentality and capability, we are not saying from which country, we Chinese can start from scratch from anywhere, if your interpretation is from “rag to riches”.

    I set up four of the nine Dragonwall restaurant chain store in three in Wyoming and one in Sacramento California. And set up three of the four China One restaurants one in Lincoln City and Albany in Oregon and one in Bellingham Washington.

    So the mentality in thinking that “want to get rich, marry a Indon Chinese girl” is perhaps you are “lunk chow lucky” having the government spoon feeding you and waiting for handouts.

    I hoped you enjoy those sushis and some of these medicine perhaps they could help heal your ego faster

  29. Dragonwall says:

    @ Raden when I reply to your comment I only meant what was said and no offence.
    Oops, sorry I forgot something.
    Aluang anak Bayang or “shadow’s son” suddenly changed to “Indonesia’s finest son!” so did you also transform the color of your Code of Arm?
    Again I stress I did not say from “rag to riches” but from scratch.
    I did not in anyway compare myself to any of those successful business people.
    And as for self inflated egoism it should only refer to people who are discriminative and their mentality in doubt.
    I am going for my buffet to find more variety.

  30. Raden says:

    Dragonwall & others, good to bring-up this issue, please don’t get me wrong I do not condone those huge predators of Indonesia. Majority of Muslim in Indonesia stereotyping chinese ‘mediocre businessman’ who really hard working for his legitimate business with those BLBI players who identical to Indonesian chinese conglomerate. I am sick of this.

    The BLBI money will never come up without the approvals of those pribumi top leaders? Again Ali-Baba model. Unfortunately the stupid pribumi mentality was always blaming on the Baba. Too much free feeding huh? Become lazy.

    The more dangerous predators exist in many other industry, like monopoly of ChandraAsri who own by Humpus/Tommy for 2 decades, we are shortage of Ethylene, we need 4 more of ChandraAsri but look here our new gov’t keep it quite or ignorant with those tariff or incapable or what? Unsure, this result our downstream long value chain becoming uncompetitive with finish plastic products from China.

    Who to blame? But when they set up riot against chinese actually only those well educated, hard working chinese who out from the country because they did not share the luck but get the pains. Those predators will remain there forever no matter what races are they, their bank accounts enough to pay for their security.

    In this case Aluang expressed his jealousy to the ‘mediocre chinese hardworking businessman’. There is no need to envy our chinese brother’s success because of their hardworking attitude in their legitimate business, I don’t see anything wrong with that. You too, if you want you can marry beautiful Malay girl in Trengganu who wear tudung and you can prosper in Malaysia, why not? I see nothing wrong with that, it shows your ability to broaden your horizon of life. For sure don’t expect the mother of tree dropping the fruits straight to your throat without your arms even peeling them, you may choke!

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