Church Intimidation
Sep 19th, 2006, in News, by PatungA Muslim mob entered the grounds of a Catholic church in Solo, Central Java.
In the city of Surakarta, or Solo, on the morning of the 18th, the members of a group called the Jamaah Islam travelled in a convoy of dozens of motorbikes and arrived at the Santo Petrus church and entered its grounds. While there some of the young men gave speeches condemning the papal speech in Germany which quoted an opinion that Muhammad had contributed only “evil and inhuman” things to the world.
One Edar Paradis of the Jamaah Islam Surakarta said that Pope Benedict had damaged the relationship between the religions of the world. While another man, Suwondo, said that the Pope’s apology was not sincere.
The pastor of the church, Prabowo, upon being faced by the mob, made a declaration that he and his congregation did not agree with what the Pope had said.
As far as I know Islam also teaches good things and noble ideals.
(Karena setahu saya, Islam juga mengajarkan hal-hal yang baik dan nilai-nilai luhur.)
27 Comments on “Church Intimidation”
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Tony says:
What mistake?
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Molisan Tono says:
Hello Tony…. Tony to earth… where have you been dude? it’s actually not mistakes, because pope only quote old saying; but in this very sensitive time, Islam is like shattered glass. they can easily blow up.
it’s only words by the way but look how sensitive they are, Christians are being persecuted long time ago, yet we don’t react much with their statement, wonder why?
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Hassan says:
Molisan Tono: “but in this very sensitive time, Islam is like shattered glass. they can easily blow up.” yeah, you wished compadre! :p dream on dude! fact: Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. fact: Christianity is the religion which is currently divided by sectarianism, and currently loosing it’s battles against atheism and agnoticism on it’s home turf (the u.s. and europe).
Christians are being persecuted?? in Indonesia maybe (according to your argument), but across the world? I don’t think so. Muslims in france, britain, and the u.s is being persecuted daily, i heard.
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Abdullah Muhamad says:
Hassan said “and the u.s is being persecuted daily, I heard”. If you are not sure you better do not say anything. It’s a shame. Here in U.S, Moslems are free, free to worship, free to speak, and never heard anything about Moslem being persecuted.
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Andrew says:
Tony – when I say “mistake”, don’t take it at face value.
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this is new… hahaha… yo Hassan, a little bit knock off from your head? most Moslem has slapped our faces many times and we are still silence. and look how you react when someone slap you… you react like you are going to blow up… this is what I meant of shattered glass.
face on your mirror dude… look who’s talking.
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Miss Indo 07 says:
yeah Hassan,learn from the other Moslems please..
or u think that u’r the best Moslem in the world,or at least in indo?didnt u say to tono : saying sth that u dont know?
LOOK WHO’S TALKING AGAIN??? -
night says:
The mistake is on the mass media .. they did misquoting on what Pope said. Actually the pope did a lecture for the theologians.
I got the paper (from email) … that translated pope’s lecture in Indonesia, and inside his lecture note, it didnt attack the Moslem faith nor questioning their faith.
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Good “Night”!, None of the people showing their rage actually read what the Pope said or meant. Worse, political and Muslim spiritual leader, but a few, critisised the Pope, indirectly inciting the mob. Why didn’t they say to the people “read the speech and make up your mind”?
There was a good article in yesterday’s JP by a Muslim (Sorry, cannot recall his name) who read the Pope’s speech and wrote that his message was one of peace. The speech was as invitation to a dialog, to use “Logos” i.e.: reasoning instead of deadly confrontations or inter-religious meetings where everybody says that we “should” love each other. Why shouldn’t we use logic while discussing of religion? Why are we so afraid to put our faith and our holy books under screening? Or better, why are leaders so afraid that we might put our faith under screening and make up our mind?
What a missed opportunity! -
Hassan says:
Abdullah Muhamad, molisan tono, and Miss Indo 07: ok, let me re phrase my statement. “I know, and read about Muslims in france, britain, and the u.s. are being prosecuted daily”.
France: Muslims are second class citizens, treated with prejudice, not allowed to wear hijab on public places, etc. Britain: Muslims were always accused and cornered when the issues of terrorism emerged, hence prejudice. The u.s: ever since the 9/11 Muslims doesn’t feel safe, discriminated in aspects of life.
Not prosecuted Abdullah Muhamad? You are either not a Muslim, or quite lucky. maybe because you are an Indonesian Muslim, not an Arab Muslim.
molisan tono, I’m not angry, dude. I was just expressing my opinion about something. Don’t over react on things. which one of my sentence gave you the impression that I got mad? I’m chill, and certainly not a “shattered glass”.
Look who’s talking indeed.
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Hassan said:
I know, and read about Muslims in france, britain, and the u.s. are being prosecuted daily
Your statement still sounds very poor and weak, sounds come from your own thinking, what a shame!
Hassan said, the u.s, ever since the 9/11 Muslims doesn’t feel save, discriminated in aspects of life. C’mon dude, being not feel safe and discriminated, not a persecution at all!
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Ismail says:
Muslims should just come out a tell us Mohammed did not spread Islam my war and death istead killing, looting and making all this noise.
Hassan hello, I know you live in a world of your own, just for a moment look around you, Muslims are killing everyday, go to Africa its happening there daily, 10 churches have just been burnt in Nigeria, go to egypt and yes Indonesia, i can go on, the list is endless. indeed ISLAM has added nothing to the world but hate, death and misery.
You talked about persecution of Muslims in the US, UK and France let me just say this, if you have been bombed by Muslims of a different sect from you and your plane hijacked and train ripped apart by suicide bombers, I am sure your version of Islam would have demanded not just persecution but death to them all just look at shiite and sunni in Iraq…..sad
MOHAMMED brought nothing but EVIL and INHUMAN things to the world.
If you say Islam is the fastest growing you are indeed confirming that this cancer, this evil is fast growing for that we should all be sad and scared.
But the good news is that it’s all a HOAX. Islam makes too mush noise. -
abdullah muhamad: don’t believe me? don’t take my words for it, google it!
Ismail: i give you parts of my comment that i gave on some other thread. you are free to answer it anywhere you want.
who had committed more violence in the last millenia? the crusades? slavery? imperialism? world wars? holocaust? hiroshima? vietnam? afghan? Iraq? were they Muslims?
violence is not exclusive to Islam. any efforts to point fingers to other religion will result in fingers pointed right back at you.
btw, are you trying to be the pope’s spokesman or something? pathetic…
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Rockstar says:
How come people keep finding excuses to do something irrational like this. With or without Pope’s comment, this is wrong. Simply put.
Don’t you think people can be so ridiculously stupid? even the pastor doesn’t have any relationship with the pope. So if it was pope’s fault, we were the one who had to suffer?
Who the heck is pope anyway? I don’t give a damn of what he said, he’s just a mere human, not God.
I see how idiotic people can become.. very sad.
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Peace says:
Hassan,
Please the more you talk the more you embarrass Islam!
Don’t stain your own religion by being such a bitchy dude! -
yes Hassan, even the other Moslems dont agree with what u said, face yourself in the mirror 1st Hassan.
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Hassan… dude, need help? OMG, i forgot… your’e even not on my side.
Let’s talk about facts dude. Nobody cares about the pope. Rockstar got the point, the pope is human and we both, cath and Christian, only worship Jesus. So, forget about the pope. Wake up dude, don’t get wasted with pope’s speech.
Talking about crusades… if I’m not mistaken, actually it’s not a war of religion… it’s a war defending Jerusalem. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
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Tomaculum says:
Hassan,
Again your argumentation with Hiroshima, Holocaust, Vietnam, Afgan, Iraq etc etc. Your half knowledge and polemical interpretation is being more and more awkward. I was in France, I was in Britain, I live in Germany, I was in the Netherlands. I read many independence and neutral newspapers and other reports. Do you know how the Muslims live in Europe and do you know their problems and the problems of their hosts?Who wrote the report you have read? Neutral? Independence? Are you sure? You read it in Google (google it?)? You can find many things in Google, but you have to select these, because we can be sure about the seriousness of the authors and the artikels. This rule is known by everyone working with internet. You don’t know this? Pity!!! Or you know but ignore this rule? Worse alternative!!!
A little story: Once a Muslim man came to a hospital. He refused to shake the hand of the female Christian doctor who treat him. At the other time he talked to me about the pork feeder and grumbled about them.
If you don’t respect someone then don’t expect to be respected. If you visit someone you have to respect his/her rules and laws, don’t you?
“Muslims were (and are?) accused and cornered when the issues of terrorism emerged”. You wonder about it? Didn’t/don’t you read about the past terrorism plans in London? Or do you ignore it because this fact doesn’t suitable to your arguments?
Slavery: the slavery was a tradition and common in the Islamic north Africa, long time before the whites/Christians started this. The victim? Black Africans. Read about it! It wasn’t less awful in comparison to the slavery by the Christian.
Crusades? You’re right. But haven’t you ever heard about the conquest of the south Europe incl. Spain by the Moslems between the 9th and 12th century?
Imperialism: the highest stage of capitalism (Lenin). The main purpose is economical and financial (Columbus tried to find “Indie” in the hope to find richness). Religion is just a further reason.
Hiroshima: the USA didn’t throw the Bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the name of Christianity. What about the Japanese and their war crimes? As I know the majority in Japan is Shintos and Buddhists.
Holocaust: was the work of the national socialists of Germany (Hitler). In fact there are Christian sympathisers and perpetrators, but it is fact too that many Moslems collaborated with the Nazis. Do you need literature about it?
Vietnam: USA is surely not similar with the whole Christian world. There were many many Christian opponents to the US war crime in Vietnam and elsewhere. Afghan and Irak? Christian states (USA, Britain etc) off course. But isn’t the main purpose also economical and financial ?
Think (twice) and speak, not speak and thoughtless. -
OUCH… that’s really hurt my ass… don’t you feel it Hassan?
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Hassan,
to your words from Sept. 19th: there are persecutions of Christians in Sudan, Pakistan, India, some of the Balkan states (to use your term: I heard! But I read about it too). But for there equity: there was and is also persecutions of Moslems in the mentioned Balkan states.
I think it is wrong if you say that “violence is not exclusive to Islam”. Because in your sentence you admit that violence is part of Islam teaching. But violence isn’t part of any religious teaching. It is human!! The problem is, that we interpret the words according to our needs and the violence groups or people often abuse their religion as argumentation.
By the way: the sectarianism isn’t a” privilege” of the Christianity. Even in the other religions is this phenomenon well known (Islam: Alawis, Ahmadiyah, Ismailis, Druze, Sunnis, Sufis, Shi’ites, Fatimids etc., Buddhism: Hinayana, Mahayana etc, Hinduism: Nimbatkas, Madhavas etc, Judaism: Conservative, Hazidic, Karaite etc).
Hassan, in Europe or the USA the Christianity is currently not loosing against atheism or agnoticism. It is a severe battle against the materialism. Do you know that in the last years a tendency to religiousness is being watched? Among young people? No, I’m sure you haven’t read about it. -
Tomaculum: I never said that violence is a teaching of Islam, I meant that violence is not something that only Muslims had done. people of other faiths do commit violence every single day.
as you must have understood, I was replying a comment made by Ismail whose tone sounded as if violence was committed only by Muslims and other people of other faiths do not have any part in it. hence, my hiroshima, holocaust, crusades, etc examples. I meant to show that those violence were not done by Muslims. to proof my point that Muslims are not the only people who had committed violence (as Ismail had tried to imply) in human history. so mr. Tomaculum, you better try to understand other people’s motives first, before jumping into any conclusions.
trust me, your ‘enlightenment’ did not went unapreciated, although i do felt that your arguments are a little off topic. maybe you should think twice before commenting on other peoples’ dialog. the word for it is ‘sotoy’.
Molisan Tono: having a good time? did it hurt your ass? because I didn’t feel any of it. it did hit your ass and not mine 😀
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Hassan,
I think I understand your words good enough. Even to answer someone’s argument needs a founded knowledge. And not something like “I heard”.
I understood very well your intention to answer Ismail. If you read my comments carefully, I’m sure you will find out, that I never assume you saying, that violence is a teaching of Islam. But your sentence implicate the violence to Islam. Else you should write: Violence is not exclusive to some Muslims (because there are violent radicals/fundamentalists too in other religions. Like you do, in Al Qur’an I can’t find any teaching to violence too). Because you will put your self in the same stage with someone who categorizes pointless and emotionally.Read my comments carefully, and I hope that even you will find out, that they are not off topic. I would thank you very much, If you show me, which of my arguments are off topic.
And Hassan, not for all violence in this world is the Christian world responsible, but for many of those. The point is that your examples are wrong (r.my comments).BTW: did some one read Benedicts speech? And understand it?
Even Prabowo seems not to understand it. And his statement (“as far as I know Islam also teaches good things and noble ideas”) is open for misunderstanding.
I’m sure he wanted to say, that like Christianity Islam teaches only good and noble things. Isn’t it? -
Hassan says:
Tomaculum: I’m not implying that the Christian world is responsible for all the acts of violence i mentioned. I was just saying “those acts were not done by Muslims”. i appreciate your reply and heads up. cheers.
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Hassan,
now I understand what you meant, how “sotoy” from me. I appreciate your “enlightenment” too.BTW: imagine a group of Christians would enter the grounds of a mosque (for a similar reason).
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Karlira Kanakahuko says:
We are now in chaos, not our topic about Church Intimidation. Also to us, we are hurting and giving ugly comments to each other! The no. one is “H”. “H” is the radical Muslims in Indonesia, like Jemahh Islamiya groups, and all of us, except “H” are affected Indonesians who are againsr radical Muslims, conservativism,sexual morality and most of all, RUU-APP. All of us looks like/like Indonesian people discuss in “Indonesiamatters.com”, too much controversies and bad happenings in Indonesia and its connected countries, such as Australia about “Papua Issue”. So, we should cool up. You just call me, hypocrite or liar, I want peace to us in this website, please. :).
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hello guys just come back from the moon… uuhhhh Hasan, naughty boy… well at least i got my ass stick here with me…. hahahaha…. don’t loose your self boy like you loose your ass….
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The pope made a mistake, but attacking churches will only confirm the accusation. Luckily the mob was wise enough to not have caused any damage.
Still, being a minority group is never easy.