99 Comments on “Timor Tour of Duty”

1. Burung Koel says:

   November 2, 2009 at 11:50 am

   I haven’t seen the film, however even a quick investigation into Mr Uzunov’s previous “journalism” should result in a fair degree of skepticism about his approach to news and current affairs.

2. ngurah koriawan says:

   November 2, 2009 at 1:36 pm

   Even without watching the film, I know this is about the great white man as deputy sheriff of Wild West against brave man of Indianesia.

   Brave man of Indianesia is a real man and the deputy sheriff will always acting cocky and arrogant.

3. donny says:

   November 2, 2009 at 1:45 pm

   It’s OK with me as long as he made it as authentic as possible, with lots of firepower exchange, bombs and so on

   I like war movies … and remember … it’s just a movie, an expression of the maker, no matter how stupid his belief on the actual events are …

4. Oigal says:

   November 2, 2009 at 2:14 pm

   Even without watching the film, I know this is about the great white man as deputy sheriff of Wild West against brave man of Indianesia.

   Brave man of Indianesia is a real man and the deputy sheriff will always acting cocky and arrogant.

   Yea..Just a shame that 30% of the population of East Timor is not around anymore to see the movie. Perhaps Ngy.. you might want to put that on your tshirt and take a holiday in East Timor and get a local reaction to brave men and real men.

   How amazingly brave were the hero’s who hacked the mother and her child with machetes, yes the finest examples of manhood indeed. Or the headlong rush of looting as they final days of occupation began.

   Don’t forget to ask about the brave men and Aturo Island ok

   Perhaps a quick google search…”Violence, East Timor, TNI will give you some nice bedtime reading..

5. Oigal says:

   November 2, 2009 at 2:18 pm

   Having said that, there were some isolated “incidents” once the UNAMET forces landed but to project anything else would be a beat up to the max. Like all BRAVE bullies and cowards the bravery rapidly disappeared when faced with people that had the means to fight back.

6. Burung Koel says:

   November 2, 2009 at 6:30 pm

   I agree that there were undoubtedly incidents where TNI troops backed Timorese militia – in fact these are quite well known and have been publicised extensively in the mainstream media.

   What I don’t understand is the film-maker’s angle that Australian troops were somehow caught in a “secret war” and that this has directly led to cases of PTSD on returning home. The role of UNTAET was fairly clear to all concerned at the time, and stressful situations of any kind can lead to symptoms of PTSD being manifested, in both military personnel and civilians in peacekeeping operations.

   I don’t think Uzunov’s film represents much more than his own individual and singular views. To read anything more into that would be pointless. Much like his film, I suspect.

7. James Dunn says:

   November 3, 2009 at 8:33 am

   I have yet to see this film but I applaud that it was made ahd what it is reported to contain. I have long followed the unfolding of the East Timor tragedy, the catastrophic nature of which is still not fully understood. Tragically the Indonesian political establishment have yet to confront the way their troops behaved in this grave violation of the UN Charter. The Indonesian quest for democracy will not be fulfilled until they have taken a close look at what happened in East Timor and the brutal culture of the TNI.
   I have a long background in the study of the past, including two books, A People Betrayed 1983 and East Timor: A Rough Passage to Independence 2003. As a UN observer and later senior adviser to Sergio Vieira de Mello I was able to follow the events from 1999 to 2002.
   What was abundantly clear is the all the events of 1999 were in fact led by the TNI generals who set up the militia in 1998 with the aim of sabotaging the movement towards independence. The TNI continued to be involved after 1999. At one stage a TNI general told militia leaders in West Timor to bide their time and wait for fresh arms supplies to be provided to them, to enable them to retirm to East Timor.
   True the clashes involving Interfet troops were on a rather small scale, but TNI, probably Kopassus training continued, indication moves to lprepare for their return. These operations could be clearly observedd from the Blackhawk helicopters patrolling the border area.
   It should not be forgotten that those major atrocities at Dili, Liquica, Suai, Maliana and Passabe in Oecusse constituted serious crimes against humanity, all of them virtually the responsibilities of TNI commanders.
   As one of htose who stayed in Dili during the killings and destriction of September 1999, the commanders and most of the trooops were not militia but TNI troops, often wearing Aitarak cloaks over their uniforms. I met with some of them.
   Good luck with this film. It highlights the need for further aciton to identify those responsible, some of whom, like Tono Suratnam, then a colonel, now a maj. general, have been rewarded for their actions.
   James Dunn (UN Expert on Crimes Against Humanity in East Timor (2000-2002)

8. Oigal says:

   November 3, 2009 at 9:22 am

   Hi James, Having lived in ET both before and after 1999, I for one am not disagreeing with you There remains a significant case to answer for the simply barbaric actions both during the occupation and in the direct aftermath of the referendum. One of the amazing/sickening things in Indonesia is that these dregs of humanity are still strutting the political stage and no one seems to care. Compassion for others does not seem big at times.

   However, I think most people would agree that to suggest there was a “secret war” between Australian Troops and Indonesia after 1999 could be called nothing else but a beat-up. In fact, the Kiwis rightfully had the biggest axe to grind after one of their soldiers was badly mutlated by a bunch cowards and bullies. Now the “Balibo Five” should be required viewing for all Indonesians ans Australians.

   Having said that, the news from Chile that soldiers may be offered immunity for confessing to murders, rapes and pillaging decades ago in return for evidence against their commanders at the time must be sending a chill down many a spine in Indonesia. Sooner or later, justice will be done.

9. Burung Koel says:

   November 3, 2009 at 9:37 am

   Hi James

   I’ve followed your writings on East Timor for years, and also spent some time there after 1999. I agree with you completely about who is responsible for the atrocities, however I am worried that this film isn’t actually about the suffering of the Timorese people, or about seeking justice for them. I’d be careful about who or what you might be ‘applauding’ here!

   Hi Oigal

   Interesting about Chile. I remember going to a couple of CAVR seminars in Dili – one in particular by Paul van Zyl who was with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in post apartheid South Africa. The point he made was that the regular justice system was of no use in cases of gross human rights abuses, and in East Timor, they couldn’t possibly physically process the number of trials involved. This certainly correlated with what I was hearing from my friends in the Serious Crimes Unit and other parts of the court system. They were spending a lot of time chasing very minor convictions, sometimes of kids who had been coerced at gunpoint into doing terrible things. His solution (if I remember correctly) was to go after the really big cases (like Wiranto, although he didn’t mention him by name), while using a process of community reconciliation to deal with the mass of smaller ones.

   The important thing, he said, was to ensure that everything was documented, so that in the future, no-one could say “This Didn’t Happen”. There are still Holocaust deniers around, and as we can see on this site from time to time, people who will excuse the TNI or even say that they weren’t involved in the abuses in East Timor.

10. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 3, 2009 at 9:43 am

    @ Oigal, @ Mr. Dunn,

    What I don’t see in the discourse on East Timor, particularly from Australia, is much of a desire to explain why the events happened, or to understand that part of history.

    Oigal’s standard explanations are: 1) The TNI are barbarians 2) The Indonesian government is full of corrupt, snivelling and cowardly bastards. 3) They all deserve to be punished. (Punished by who ? Noble Aussie diggers ? Courageous Australian diplomats ? Fearless fact-finding Australian journalists from networks like Channel 9 ?).

    Overall, the discourse from Australia on East Timor seems to be the search for villains, for evil.

    There’s nothing like the exquisite pleasure of feeling morally superior. But how will this help ?

    Firstly, Oigal’s sense of justice is very one sided. How many civilians dead in Iraq, Oigal ? (That’s right, Western heads of state can’t be war criminals, only tinpot dictators can). How many Vietnamese villagers died from Agent Orange ? Ok – here’s a leap – a big one for Oigal – how many conflicts around the world have been created by the arbitrary borders drawn up by British and colonial administrators, heedless of ethnic realities on the ground ?

    But no, for Oigal, history is a John Wayne movie: cowboys ‘n’ injuns. (The Indonesians are the Injuns).

    Mr. Dunn, you’re vastly more informed than most here. Can you explain:

    1) What you think the moral culpability of the Australian government is ? The Whitlam government, the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs in the original Timor invasion in 1975 ?

    2) Apparently a US president visited Jakarta shortly before the invasion – what of that ? Did the U.S. “sign off” on East Timor ?

    3) The Balibo 5 – those martyrs of the Australian press. Could it be they were in fact naive careerist thrill-seekers taking a calculated risk in a war zone ?

    4) All countries seek security and seek to preserve their borders. Australia and the U.S. encouraged Indonesia to “integrate” East Timor knowing full well the state of the military back then. What standards should be applied to third-world militaries ? Do developing countries have the right to border security ? What if they can’t afford proper a proper army – recruiting semi-literate peasants as armies have done throughout history ?

    These aren’t easy questions, though I imagine Oigal will come up with pat answers: “they’re all bastards….” and “Achmad is an apologist.

    A. Sudarsono *

    * Achmad Sudarsono is an emerging poet, philosopher, Ukulele Player, cabaret singer and pencak silat master. His hobbies are drinking Teh Poci and Sepak Takraw.

11. SapperK9 says:

    November 3, 2009 at 10:05 am

    This book is interesting reading, in retrospect…

    White Tribe of Asia: Indonesian View of Australia ~ Ratih Hardjono

    http://www.amazon.com/White-Tribe-Asia-Indonesian-Australia/dp/1875657312

    Me, I still barrack for the Gurkhas who secured the airfield for the Australian insertion. Oft forgot gallant first feet…

12. Chris says:

    November 3, 2009 at 10:16 am

    I can’t say I’ve heard of that film, only another film also made recently, called “Balibo”.

    You can see the trailer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di9xBAQNi4k

    The movie’s webpage also has an interesting “movie v facts/reality” section.

13. Oigal says:

    November 3, 2009 at 11:18 am

    Much better than your pantings of late Assmad. Unfortunately although all a worth a long debate, I have plane to catch so please for forgive the brief reply (I do like the misdirection tho..cute but effective).

    I am interest to see you believe there is no case to answer for the Indonesians involved in the missing and slaughtered East Timorese. A strange position from someone who is so well read on the subject?

    Whitlam and ozzie diplomats (I assume you mean the SOB in jakarta at the time the evil Mr. B…Actually they both deserve to be the dock alongside the other murderers and scumbags.

    I am impressed as usual at your arm chair writing off of human beings but not surprised.

    How many civilians dead in Iraq??

    Not sure how many killed by foreign troops? How many killed by each other? Still long way from topic?

    Could it be they were in fact naive careerist thrill-seekers taking a calculated risk in a war zone.

    Cold blooded murder is murder not a calculated risk

    The TNI are barbarians

    Well I guess one could ask the Timorese, Papuans, 1998 victims for second opinion? As a matter of interest I would what the TNI kill rate of fellow Indonesians is compared to that of the Dutch? I have a feeling the TNI might be winning??

    Interesting you drag up the ol colonial chestnut..So you are saying Indonesia should got back to enthic boundries only??

    Assmad is supporter of the Timor and Papua TNI intervention…go figure

    BTW…How many dead in Iraq due to foreign troops Assmad? Your statement let’s get some detail then?

    Oh and one last one, have you ever been near East Timor, ever seen the suffering inflicted for real or even some pictures? Just wondering is all?

14. donny says:

    November 3, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Hello Oigal & Achmad, my beloved online pals =D

    I try to look at both sides

    when you’re integrating a part of “colony” into other nation, and you ask for general popularity … you’ll die in vain

    of course there always supporters and opposition =D

    during my college years, some of my friends are Timorese, and even within their own group there’s disagreement whether they should thank Indonesian Government or fight against it

    you see, Indonesian government DID build East Timor, if you see – many of its young generation receive scholarship like my friends above (all of them is on Government’s money)

    and take a walk in Dili … even to the remotest village, the infrastructure is adequate (I’m not saying it is good compared to western standard), but comparing to other remote villages in Java, for example – they got better road, puskesmas (clinic) with standby physician. My point is Indonesia DID not abandon east timor like what westerners said

    availability of physician is rare treatment from Indonesian government in comparison with other region – before independence, Indonesian goverment supply Timorese with abundant physicians … now it is rare

    too bad many of infrastructure is destroyed during riot & looting …

    and I did not deny that there was bloodshed in East Timor – afterall, in 1970s it’s a war there … and in that situation, where the option is killed or to be killed … what do you suggest police / army should do ? open their arms wide and accept the hot lead ?

    of course there’s human rights violation – name one country which did not have history of human rights violation … but this is blown up extravagantly … I admit the suffering is REAL, but you should go there and ask general population, instead ones that suffered

    see … I spend couple months there – before and after the freedom of east timor
    before … it was beautiful – pristine beach, pretty ladies (portuguese descendant), cheap and safe

    now, after UN taking care of it …

    1. locals are not allowed to rent a car – you should have indonesian passport / other nation identity to rent a car
    2. price is skyrocketing, and all retail businesses is owned NOT by timorese, and if any — very few of them. For example – rent a car businesses above (which I used) owned by Singaporean
    3. increased criminal rate … especially theft. now I did not dare risk my life going deep to visit several beautiful beaches in remote villages anymore …
    4. food is scarce – even general medicine is scarce – price is way too high
    5. and the authorities bought a very nice ship (luxurious one) to be used for who … ???
    6. when they come to surabaya … they spend money like water … (I WAS THERE)

    see …

15. Oigal says:

    November 3, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    Donny,

    Interesting viewpoints and in many cases very true

    and the authorities bought a very nice ship (luxurious one) to be used for who

    obscene is a word I would use but then I am not fan of the UN.

    Although in other areas you are just sprouting the government line. Pre-Independence the vast majority of government positions were held by non-Timorese (much the same as in most non-Javanese provinces even now) but even that would I suppose be a subjective judgment. The local people (like so many provinces shared no benefit from the riches of their province.

    However,

    but this is blown up extravagantly

    Sorry but that is way off the mark.

    Did you happen to see Dili directly after 1999, not a building government building left usable? Thousands homeless and not a one family who had not been victim in some fashion, children mutilated, women raped, men killed.

    Even by the most conservative estimate 20% of the population of East Timor went missing during Indonesian Rule (although most seem to indicate 30% plus is a more accurate figure). That could hardly be called nation building could it?

    Contrary to what some may say, my personal opinion is East Timor would have been far better off remaining part of Indonesia and certainly UN administration has been a shambles since then. However the ham fisted politics, inept leadership and blatant barbarity which allowed murderers and thugs to run riot over the local people meant misery for all but a few obnoxious excuses of humanity. Sadly the situation is repeating itself to this day and will continue to do so until people are called to account.

    and I did not deny that there was bloodshed in East Timor – afterall, in 1970s it’s a war there … and in that situation, where the option is killed or to be killed … what do you suggest police / army should do ? open their arms wide and accept the hot lead ?

    So you are saying it was an invasion and occupation? A war would suggest there were two armies involved instead of a bunch of uniformed thugs with guns verses a largely unarmed civilian population. Please have a read of any number of articles available on the issue when you talk about human rights, we are not talking about the odd nutcase who was later called to account but a systematic, cruel implementation of policies that would make most people sick to their stomach.

    but you should go there and ask general population,

    Ask them what? Where their kin are buried? I grant you the general population is very disappointed with the UN and events since 1999. That of course, has much has to do with the inept governance of the UN and expectations unrealized but at least the population just doesn’t disappear any more.

    Never the less, I dare anyone to go wandering around TL claiming solidarity with the murdering militia. (BTW FRETLIN were no angels and have much to hang their heads in shame for as well)

16. donny says:

    November 3, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Hello Oigal

    continuing our discussion

    So you are saying it was an invasion and occupation? A war would suggest there were two armies involved instead of a bunch of uniformed thugs with guns verses a largely unarmed civilian population

    in my opinion … YES, it is a war … I happen to know several retired army and police (brimob) who served there during that time … and believe me, they DID NOT face an unarmed civilian … many army man died there, friend of mine is lucky to have survived to tell the tale …

    do not underestimate the power of Fretilin and other armed militia during that time. It is indeed a war, there is one occassion where my friend’s company being cut off in front line and supply is dropped via air transport

    regarding killing, raping and everything … I am aware of it, and on better light, I do believe that East Timor is better under Indonesian Government … like you

    about 20% – 30% of population missing – can you cite the source ? as this is new to me.
    needles to say, one of my relatives own a small business in Dili and he’s a living witness of what happened since 1990s – and I did not hear anything about 30% population is missing … nor from my college friends (natives from East Timor)

    I’m agree with you that governance of the UN is a big mess, only part of the topmost elite got all the wealth and the rest of the population is living under stressful poverty – you should see when one of them ordering a car valued at IDR 750 million (not including shipping fee to East Timor) like children buying cheap candies

    very sad to see east timorese becoming slaves in their own country – not even allowed to rent a car from companies owned by foreigner … ironic, don’t you think ?

17. Oigal says:

    November 3, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    about 20% – 30% of population missing

    – can you cite the source ?

    Sources, yea sure.. Yale University reputable enough?
    Try http://www.yale.edu/gsp/east_timor/index.html

    Although there is literally thousands upon thousands out there. Do yourself a favour and don’t search for images unless you have particularly strong stomach.

    Try any search under East Timor and go from there (East Timor Genocide will save you some time). Excluding papers from Indonesia, you will find little support for the story that Indonesia prefers to distribute.

    regarding killing, raping and everything … I am aware of it, and on better light, I do believe that East Timor is better under Indonesian Government … like you

    Sorry please don’t misquote me, if those in charge had acted in anything like a reasonable way then perhaps in the longer term TL would have been better off however treating people the way they they did meant there could only be misery and sooner or later they will be brought to account.

18. donny says:

    November 3, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    wow … quite amazing that something that big goes unnoticed by me =D

    anyhow, I visit East Timor sometimes in 1997 and it seems to me that everything is much better than it is now …

    all I know is just war waging in 1970s … and it is normal to have casualties in war, but not this kind of genocide

    anyhow, I tried googling for images and found almost nothing to support the articles

    but perhaps Indonesian government is very good at hiding facts – like what they do in 1998 riot

19. Richard_Sorge says:

    November 3, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    I enjoyed Sasha’s little film but I am sorry to say that it is light on facts. As a member of 4RAR at the time, and having friends in 2 Platoon, this is my take:

    The SAS patrol inserted after the contact could not find any trace of the enemy. The Commanding Officer’s report was inconclusive (a nice way of saying there was no traces of an enemy).

    The tracker dog found a trace? Source please. While you’re there, also tell us the source that alleges bodies were found over the border. I don’t remember any such claims. This sounds very similar to a contact that occurred between 1RAR and Militia before the arrival of 4RAR.

    “Pete” has Post-Traumatic Stree Syndrome? Arh, what you’re not told in the movie is that the Section Commander was an emotional train-wreck. The guy leveled his pistol and cocked it at “Pete’s” head, giving him the option to “live or die.” What I want to know is whether this was mentioned in the interview or edited out?

    The overall mood of the Battalion after the contact was that the impetus behind the incident was what is commonly described as an Unlawful Discharge. An unlawful discharge occurs when you discharge your firearm accidentally. As a member of the patrol subsequently confessed that “nothing was out there” this might appear true.

    Well, I’ll leave it up to Sasha, our faithful spin-doctor and budding director, to provide answers for.

20. diego says:

    November 4, 2009 at 1:49 am

    I guess what will happen in East Timor is:

    – The portuguese descendents (who happen also to own some land in east timor) will become the elite (politically and economically).
    – The indigenous (that dark-skinned east timorese) will be the lowest class in society, end up being “souvenir makers”.
    – The meztizo will reject their indigenous origin, and try hard to associate themselves more with the portuguese, and they will be more or less “terhimpit” in the middle.

    Hey, if you think of it, it looks nice, reminds me of the way coffee is served in places like starbucks, multicolored, multilayered.

    So you got the thick black coffee at the bottom, and the lighter-brown colored (the mix) in the middle, and the white cream at the top.

    I’m gonna get some coffee now. Cya.

21. diego says:

    November 4, 2009 at 11:33 am

    I’ve just thought about it…, my comment above might sound a bit racist. I’m sorry, it was unintentional. Yea I know it’s hard when a nation end in that kind of solution. But I think it can be remedied, right? I mean, by bridging the gap between skin colors, there will be a lot less social issues like that. This kind of stuff certainly will help:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDnr2vN_9EU

    Ciao!

22. Andy says:

    November 5, 2009 at 2:02 am

    I think the most disappointing thing is not so much the perpetrators denial and miscarriage of justice (we all know criminals will try anything to get out of facing justice) but the denial of the people of the country. It is they who must put pressure on the system and change things. The elites running the show certainly wont. Germans despise Nazi Germany, Cambodians despise the Khmer Rouge. This is why they have faced war crimes trials. Until Indonesians stop seeing this as an us and them issue Suharto’s cronies will continue to elude justice. And let’s not forget it is many of them (not only Timorese) who suffered during the New Order regime.

23. Sasha Uzunov says:

    November 6, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Wasn’t Richard Sorge the name of a German spy for the Soviet Union against the Japanese during World War II? Perhaps this is a hint or code as to your true identity?

    But if I remember correctly Sorge true indentity was discovered by the Japanese.

    If I remember correctly there are 2 public newspaper sources to the contact by 1-2-Alpha of 14 June 2001, available on the website. Nothing conspiratorial…

    Here are the links:

    http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1033/story05.htm
    16 August 2001 – The Australian Army Newspaper

    Quote:

    On the other hand, there have been several serious incidents. One, as recently as mid June, involved a contact with five armed men and a section from 4RAR.

    Lt-Col Sengelman said the group opened fire on the Australian patrol when challenged.

    “That showed that there are threat groups out there, so the danger certainly still exists.

    End of quote

    http://www.etan.org/et2001b/june/24-30/25tandthe.htm
    The Australian Financial Review newspaper
    June 2001

    Quote

    On June 14 to 16, the lead scout of an Australian patrol challenged five armed men in heavy country. One of the men started to fire on the Australian patrol and the patrol counter-attacked, pursuing the men through 40m of jungle. The men moved back towards the Australian position, firing shots, before disappearing into West Timor.

    Later, Indonesian forces told the Australians that they had captured five unarmed men who claimed they had been smuggling sandalwood. Sengelman described this encounter as “one of the most significant events to date”.

    “It shows that groups with weapons and intent on killing are still trying to cross the tactical control line,” he said.

    End of quote.

    It would appear that the Indonesian authorities have indirectly confirmed the shootout.

    All sorts of incidents, trainining scenarios occur during lead up training to any deployment in a warzone or on a peacekeeping mission. Soldiers are constantly pointing weapons at each other, it comes with the job. So does tough physical training. Using vigorous language as well!

    Weapons handling is discussed in my film.

    Ah, but then there is the 4RAR Official book on the Timor mission 2001, which is also available in the public domain and goes into some detail about the follow up, in terms of tracking the militia to the border.

    I thought you would have read the book?

    I suspect you have not the seen the full 53 minutes of my film.

    cheers
    Sasha Uzunov
    Director/Producer
    TIMOR TOUR OF DUTY

24. Jon Fihelly says:

    November 6, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    Dear Richard Soorgy Boy
    Do you have a real name?\
    I was in 4AR and I don’t recall you being there that day.
    stop being so dimissive of what is now your own heritage. This is a story about not only wankers invalidating diggers but actually wanker diggers invalidating other diggers. And you pop your wanker face up in the middle of that and spurt the same ignorant dribble years down the track. The level of your insight remains to this day…dazzling!! Are you possibly a living demonstration of stupidity?…. and betrayal? ….and misplaced trust?… and disloyalty?…. Has some smoothly spoken senior brainwashed you of this whilst your bottom was expanded?… ARE YOU A CREEP?

    What I’m trying to get at Richardy Boy is that …… Lets imagine for a second that what these men, the Un, the TNI,

25. Jon Fihelly says:

    November 7, 2009 at 6:31 am

    Whats more this is a wanker website. Look at the picture at the top of the page of two grown men acting like chidren, painting their faces, putting on a beret and dangling a bit of wire about the place. Have a think about it.

26. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 7, 2009 at 8:10 am

    Mr. Jon Fihelly,

    You must learn respect for your future rulers. When Australia becomes a minor province in Greater Indonesia you will have to respect Indonesians by law. But just as a friend, I suggest you to start familiarizing yourself with our philosopy – the Pancasila. It takes twice as long for the Bule (White Man’s) mind to absorb Pancasila due to his latent immorality. Also the Australian has to learn about Human Rights.

    A. Sudarsono.

27. SapperK9 says:

    November 7, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    I fear Jon Fihelly is a tad over-simplistic and would deny our, at least, latent humanity with all its foibles and failures.

    However, Achmad Sudarsono, makes it clear that that the Javanese Empire is bent upon South Irian inclusion.

    But his criticism of Australia (South Irian) about human rights, from the Javanese perspective is nothing new, see Ratih Hardjono, above. It of course fails in any test of reciprocity, hundreds of thousands of dead East Timorese and other Java colonised peoples are testament to that. And any government based on theocracy condemns us to Mediaevalism.

    Like Churchill said, democracy is far from perfect, but it is the best rotten system yet devised.

28. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 7, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    @ SapperK9

    The problem that like most westerners and especially Australians you lack the subtlety of mind to understand our Javanese ways.

    We hear your oafish proclamations and “urgings” and simply smile, the same way an elder brother does towards a wayward sibling who can’t function in school, or who bullies and gets into fights.

    We Indonesians “urge” Australia to provide basic living standards to its indigenous community (and no, that’s not sending in the jackboots).

    On a personal note, you seem to be one of the sorts of Australians who gets defensive when set straight by an Asian man. Sorry to say, Aussie, a brown/black man is in the white house now. Better get used to it. Soon we’ll be completing the mandala of Australia’s parliament house for full inclusion in the Mojopahit Empire.

    Get a rickshaw, ready, Aussie, you’ll be needing a job.

29. Oigal says:

    November 7, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    Ah Assmad.. You are going green recycling old rants. We were expecting more after your enforced layoff (by the way how did the treatment go?

    How’s the protests in support of the Crocodiles coming along?

    K9, Don’t be too put off by the Assmad’s ravings we keep him around for enterainment value. He/she is sort of like the doltish 40 plus, uni student who has never had a job but has deep and cancerous anger at those who have.

    As his spurious claims to be Indonesian, as you can see even as a fraud, he suffers from that all too common complaint that Javanese means Indonesian which as anyone could attest that is simply a falsehood and could perhaps be likened to a Dutchman in past era’s claiming to be Indonesian simply by right of occupation.

    The Javanese smile, it refers to, is of course the cultural reaction to embarrassment as the people of the provinces more and more reject the cultural and economic domination of one little island of Indonesia and daily are calling the crocodiles to account.

30. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    November 7, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    Oigal,

    I can also offer you a discount – on humanitarian grounds – on my e-course, ‘How to be Seksi,’ (TM).

    I think it’s a shame that the Indonesian public is smearing the reputation of the POLRI, the defenders of stability and security in Indonesia. But building a Pancasila democracy will always have forward – and backwards – steps, much like Oigal attempting to dance.

    I thank you.

    Merdeka !