Child crime, the convictions of ten boys aged under 16 for playing a gambling game in Tangerang.
Ten boys, aged 12 to 16, were arrested at Soekarno-Hatta International Airport in late May after police claimed they were playing a coin-tossing game for a 1,000 rupiah (10 cents) prize and shining shoes without a license.
They were held in custody for a month and on July 27th were tried in a Tangerang court and found guilty of gambling, but received no punishment.
Some of the boys, required to wear fun masks at the trial, supposedly to hide their identities
While attending a function to mark World Childrens’ Day on 2nd August in Jakarta vice president Jusuf Kalla said of the case
It’s a dilemma. Whatever the reason children must not be allowed to get involved in gambling. They need to be watched over and guided away from such things.
Kalla said however that prison was not the right place for children caught gambling, and nor should they be tried in court. kompas
While almost all commentators voiced similar sentiments, that handling the matter through the criminal justice system was not appropriate, presiding Judge Retno Pujiningtyas believed that convicting the boys of gambling was necessary to send them a stern message not to gamble again.
@ Dragonwall…
Honestly speaking to people like you are SAD..SUCH A DICK.
Is this directed at me? It seems a little unclear.
I am wondering about the next part though. It does not seem to evidence any solid arguments in support of your points of view. It reads like the little boy who takes his ball and goes home when he does not get his way.
Right, come show me the becak and form the line. People like you are no more than just gossiping bitch. And you even felt yourself being patronized. ngaca Dulu. I like to overlook that unless you are standing next to Dolly. And seriously doubt that much of tolerance you possess.
I will try and find time to fit you in later., what more on commenting to people who felt his arguments should be accepted by others just because he has been going around licking with a “subway” in his mouth.
Nevertheless, I hope you enjoy your day.
Dragonwall said
In Indonesia if you are a Chinese and even though your car is being hit by another car driven by a pribumi you are bound to be persecuted whether or not the police is present. At the end of the day the Chinese guy will be asked to pay for damage and bribe the police. Whereas for the pribumi you think it yourself.
Don’t turn it into an exclusive Pribumi vs Chinese question. The same thing happens whether you are a bule, a negro or whatever race you belong to that isn’t pribumi. The rationale behind it is “you actually are not one of us so you don’t belong here. If you wouldn’t have been here the accident wouldn’t have happened. Cough up, mister.”
Rob said
To each his own. The prosecution of these kids was wrong. It could have been dealt with, if it needed to be dealt with, by talking to and warning these kids and their parents. It did not require them to be detained, and it did not require a trial. The spirit of the arrest and prosecution seems, at least to me, to be against the spirit of the law. If this case shows anything outside of the immediate prosecution of the children involved, then it is that law enforcement in Indonesia obviously have nothing better to do like catching real criminals committing real crimes.
Sure the prosecution of these kids was wrong for anyone who has his head straight on his shoulders. But like you said: “to each his own” which means in this case islamic teachings about gambling supersede common sense. These kids were sentenced because Islam says so.
Gambling is not just a matter of Sharia Law. Mate, get a grip. This is not Muslim vs. Christian thing. These kids were not prosecuted because of their religion or some introduction by stealth of Sharia Law. They were gambling in the sense of the definition that is in the law. However, the Child Protection Law would suggest that a trial should have been an option of last resort.
C’mon Rob. As a lawyer you seem to put the law on a pedestal but you forget that laws are introduced by lobbying and are subject to stealthily ideological wheeling and dealing before they pass into bills. How else would you describe what went on during the deliberations of the pornografi monster? Don’t try to pretend that Sharia had nothing to do with it.
@ ET…
I hardly think that my comments would be classed as putting law on a pedestal. However, sometimes, at least in my humble opinion, the problem is not the law (regulation) but rather the enforcement.
The pornografi law was indeed influenced by a strong Muslim lobby. I was not arguing that laws and regulations were not, are not, or have never been influenced by Islamic teachings.
My point, just because gambling is illegal does not necessarily mean that it is illegal because of sharia-ization of the Indonesian regulatory framework. I wonder if there are other countries where gambling is illegal or restricted to certain areas that are not predominantly Muslim?
It is interesting that you suggest I am pretending. It has been a long time since anyone has pegged me as a pretender when it comes to Indonesian law. Oh well!
What has islam got to do with that? It was purely a police matter, and if a mont in gaol wasn’t enough of a punishment, I don’t know what was.
The kids needed little more than a clip around the ear and taking home. They certainly didn’t get off lightly.
They certainly didn’t. If it wasn’t because of religion then the question remains why keep a bunch of kids a month in gaol, put them on trial and find them guilty – even without punishment – for something a normal brain would consider a game instead of a misdemeanor. Especially in Tangerang with its shariah by-laws.
@ Lairedion…
Really? 😀
Is it time for me to join in yet..seems to a degenerated to a level of basic insult and inane hyperbole?
And why shouldn’t I say “MERDEKA” and “DIRGAHAYU RI” ?? Just why shouldn’t I?
You are beginning to sound like a banci .ha.ha..ha.no wonder..
This is a forum about Indonesia, not about you and your nasty little sore that won’t heal.
Oh yeah, the sore must first heal before anything can go forward gear for further discussion on prevention.
A forum is about the topic concern and that is what had happened before, what is happening now and what would be the best possible steps to ensure such things does not happened again. And you were bitching with you nasty little sore after being patronize and felt the whole world owes you a living just because you are a Brit.
Just out of interest, you aren’t Himawan are you?
Oh..Maybe.. Who Knows. Had he been on your watch out list of patrons?
Don’t turn it into an exclusive Pribumi vs Chinese question. The same thing happens whether you are a bule, a negro or whatever race you belong to that isn’t pribumi.
No on is turning it into an exclusive Pri vs Chinese topics. Up to this very moment it had not been a Pribumi vs Chinese, it is a discussion about the legal system Indonesia choose to adopt instead of having a legal system for all to follow. Coincidentally it is the case of 1+1=5 and no longer = 2.
Case 1. A Pribumi get caught they are dealing with police, who are pri, being charge under certain section coupled with sharia laws (they were trying so very hard to have them implemented in Jakarta). So what is the outcome.
Case 2. A Chinese get caught they are dealing with police, who are pri, being charge under certain section coupled with sharia laws. So what will be the outcome.
I would like to consider you being too selfish because your are thinking this is something against the pri.
The rationale behind it is “you actually are not one of us so you don’t belong here. If you wouldn’t have been here the accident wouldn’t have happened. Cough up, mister.”
Right so that n one wll ver bring up such a topic? I am not one of you and that makes me a little more different than you. Better cough good because H1N1 can get people being irrational and little wonder you are playing the blame game. Must be a disease.
These kids were sentenced because Islam says so.
If so, then don’t you think they were trying to enforce the Sharia Law in Jakarta?
Don’t try to pretend that Sharia had nothing to do with it.
So it’s Sharialization on a Civilization that was taken by Temptation and starts the Intimidation beginning with Discrimination followed by Persecution and then the Annhilation which they called it Democratization. Ha.ha. rap a little for the HUT RI.
My point, just because gambling is illegal does not necessarily mean that it is illegal because of sharia-ization of the Indonesian regulatory framework.
After rapping I get a little confused.
I wonder if there are other countries where gambling is illegal or restricted to certain areas that are not predominantly Muslim?
Oh yeah.. Malaysia in Kelantan.
And I had someone say that I didn’t have an understanding of Indonesia – hahahaha. I’ll be buggered if I fall for that old twaddle – if they hit me they pay, simple as that.
Yeah that was what you were hoping for. Didn’t I say pots and pans? I ought to mean you started smoking pots then waiting for someone to hit you then you bring out your pan… But you lose you pants.
First goes the SIM and the STNK, if no result after that a policeman will collect the BPKB.
So you are bringing your pans there? Don’t forget your pants.
No they weren’t, read the story, they were arrested, detained and released without charge – agreed, a month later. What has islam got to do with that? It was purely a police matter, and if a mont in gaol wasn’t enough of a punishment, I don’t know what was.
No wonder people who only has suc a low mentality will take things for granted.
I believe that Rob makes the same point – it would be like saying that a hanged murderer in the UK (when we had the balls to do it) was hanged in the name of God, that certainly was never the case. The kids needed little more than a clip around the ear and taking home. They certainly didn’t get off lightly.
Do you think Rob meant that?
They certainly didn’t. If it wasn’t because of religion then the question remains why keep a bunch of kids a month in gaol, put them on trial and find them guilty – even without punishment – for something a normal brain would consider a game instead of a misdemeanor. Especially in Tangerang with its shariah by-laws
Therefore I said people become so ignorant by thinking religion has nothing to do with this. And instead thinking this is a Pribumi vs Christian or Chinese affairs. They were trying to enforce in Jakarta but simply cannot find a way to do so.
Is it time for me to join in yet..seems to a degenerated to a level of basic insult and inane hyperbole?
This happens to people who talks after his pots. He already tell us , (Oh mean me) not to patronize him. Ngak Laris Mulai Ngaco. Don’t forgett to pay pajak pelacuran.
Can I join?
You guys all suck. So do your opinions.
It might be even more interesting.
So the insult thrower appears at last placing his best punch. Right you have the rights to throw insults. No one else does.
Hi ya, no wonder I nearly forgot you came by and bought antibiotic for the syphyllis, the Zovirax for your HSV and the cough syrup for you H1N1.
Bollocks like you needs to learn moe before making any sort of remark like that. Someone may have mistaken that and have the Apotek burnt down..
More potzs please..
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@ Dragonwall…
My points are hardly vague.
You were not talking about discrimination and racial injustice generally. You were talking about explicit pros and cons of being Pribumi / Indigenous Indonesian or Indonesian Chinese in the face of the Indonesian legal system, right? Discrimination and racial prejudice exists outside the confines of the law as well, wouldn’t you agree? This is true in places that have extensive racial discrimination laws in place.
This is my point about the “system” as you call it. The discrimination laws that you are referring to that remain on the books and explicitly target Indonesian Chinese are which ones? What regulations and laws are we talking about? There are specific laws on the books that would prohibit discrimination against Indonesian citizens. However, my point was that enforcement does not always give voice to the theory.
Australia had laws in place that discriminated against Indigenous Australians and we have introduced laws in some parts that deal with specific issues related to Indigenous Australians. Australia, as most readers of this forum will be aware, produced and implemented a “White Australia Policy” that in effect made it just about impossible for non-anglos and non-whites to gain entry into Australia. However, these laws are all but gone and enforcement means that the high levels of discrimination have disappeared.
I guess if you asked around, there would be plenty of Indonesians that would still feel that the process and rules and regulations governing visas to Australia are too tough and perhaps even discriminatory against some groups.
Gambling is not just a matter of Sharia Law. Mate, get a grip. This is not Muslim vs. Christian thing. These kids were not prosecuted because of their religion or some introduction by stealth of Sharia Law. They were gambling in the sense of the definition that is in the law. However, the Child Protection Law would suggest that a trial should have been an option of last resort.
Yep, I think grandfather time is what you will need to explain this to me. But, you should probably take the time to explain; for two reasons: first, I am a life-long learner and would love to learn, and second as a lawyer this sounds like stuff that I should know.
The last I time checked Indonesia was still operating, theoretically, on the presumption of innocence. There has been some talk of reversing this burden with respect to corruption matters. If I am not mistaken Singapore would have inherited the presumption of innocence from the English Law, right? But, let’s look at Singapore as a shining example of a fair justice / legal system. How are public criticisms of the PAP and its leaders dealt with, historically?
Ah, yes. Let’s sue the arse of our opposition, bankrupt them, and ensure that they are excluded from participation. Singaporeans have traditionally accepted this trade off for the peace and prosperity that they enjoy. However, getting back to the previous point, even in a defamation case in Singapore, the prosecution still have the burden of proving that the defamation occurred. Once it does that, then the court kicks into action and does its thing. The system works, but is it always fair and just?
Conventional Law and Continental Law? Are we talking about common law and civil law here? Plea bargaining is something that happens in a lot of jurisdictions and is generally a means of getting the guilty party convicted of something, even a lesser offense. This might not be a perfect system, but it is one that is better than nothing at all. The whole plea bargaining issue is currently a subject of considerable debate in Australia because it is believed that the DPP does not take sufficient note of the feelings of victims when drawing up a plea deal. Simply, there are some victims who would be prepared to go the “all or nothing” route. That is, charge the perpetrator with the most serious offense available and then prosecute them. No deals.
Agreeing to disagree is not being naive. To the contrary, it is an acceptance that I am not going to convince you with my arguments and similarly you are not going to convince me with yours. That is hardly naive, it is reality.
But, once again, to each their own!