Densus 88 Raids, Noordin (Not) Dead
Aug 8th, 2009, in News, by Patung
Noordin M Top not dead after a Densus 88 raid in Temanggung, in another raid in Bekasi a car bomb is found.
Temanggung
On the morning of August 8th in Beji, Kedu, Temanggung, Central Java anti-terror police Densus 88 raided a house where Malaysian terrorist Noordin M Top was thought to be hiding. Police said that Noordin was likely killed during the raid, however upon DNA tests of the body it was found that it was Noordin M Top at all.
Police had had the house, owned by one Muhjuhri, surrounded in a tense standoff since around 4pm the previous day, while explosions and gunfire were heard at the time of the raid.
Reports in recent days had suggested that Noordin M. Top was most likely hiding somewhere in Central Java, moving from house to house every six hours even.
Bekasi
Meanwhile in Bekasi, West Java, near East Jakarta, the home of one Ahmad Fery located at Puri Nusapala, Blok D, RT 4 RW 12 in Jati Makmur, Jatiasih was also raided by Detasemen Khusus (Densus) 88 at 1am Saturday morning, after two men arrived at the house in a van.
The two men, believed to be named Air Setiawan/Setyawan and Eko Joko Sarjono, attempted to throw pipe bombs at police, it is said, and were shot dead.
Weapons, bomb making materials, and a Mitsubishi pickup truck that had been prepared as a car bomb were seized.
Jatiasih, Bekasi
Police general Wahyono said the house had been watched by police for the last ten days.
A few days ago another senior policeman in Bekasi, Herri Wibowo, had said there were six areas in the regency which were known to be home to adherents of hardline Muslim groups and therefore the police were focusing on them in the search for likely terrorist hideouts in the wake of the Jakarta suicide bombings.
He would not name the six areas but said they included a few ordinary kampung areas, and other areas where were located certain Islamic schools, and lots of short term housing. antara
96 Comments on “Densus 88 Raids, Noordin (Not) Dead”
-
Achmad Sudarsono says:
Oigal, Oigal,
When will you learn ?
The whole thing was clearly planned and executed by the…
CIA.
Who else would have the means to dominate Indonesian TV for the whole weekend ? And yes, where did Pak Noordin get to ? Was it so hard to get him ?
Clearly, though, the CIA had help from…
The FBI.
Who are better at police work.
Oigals, Oigals, even after so long working together, your endearing naivety always makes me laugh hard.
-
ET says:
diego said
The world has got to know: the terrorists in south-east asia originate from malaysia, disgusting….
What’s so different between Malaysia and Indonesia besides the fact that the former has syariah in place?
I would rather say syariah provides a fertile breeding ground for terrorism, irrespective of national boundaries. Pakistan, Afghanistan anyone? -
Odinius says:
ET,
Malaysia has institutionalized racial laws. Indonesia used to have them. That’s a pretty big difference. Malaysia is much more prosperous. That’s another. Indonesia is considerably more free. That’s a third. As I see it, Indonesia 2 Malaysia 1 on that count.
On another note, looks like the Indonesian police are admitting they did NOT kill Noordin.
-
LOTS of reports now that the dead man may not be Noordin, the legend may have lived on….DNA tests not through yet though.
-
Oigal says:
Ah ASSMAD,
That would be CIA = Corrupted Indonesian Agencies and FBI = Fanatics Brotherhood Indonesia (Chapter)…
Seems a bit harsh from your normal incestous love affair and defence of the corrupt, the evil and the inept..
Patung…Legend??.. I would have thought Tinea Man was more apt..just when you think its clearing up, the flesh eater returns along with the stomach churing stench of its presence..
-
I was sort of quoting Sidney Jones, she says there are some people who believe he has a mystic power to evade capture hence ‘legend’.
-
Oigal,
Do you think US special forces raids or US bomb attacks that hit Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians are terrorism ? Or is it ok to waste citizens of those countries if a nation-state officially declares war ?
What if you believe your religious beliefs don’t allow you to accept the validity of the nation state ? What if you think the only valid and legitimate political system is a Caliphate (logical under some interpretations of the Koran).
-
Achmad said:
Do you think US special forces raids or US bomb attacks that hit Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians are terrorism ?
Depends. Terrorism is a tactic and strategy, not a value judgement.
Do they mean to kill those civilians in order to spread fear in local populations? If so, then it’s terrorism. If not, then its something else.
-
fanglong says:
I’ve got a mystic intuition that Noordin has evaded one more time, and I feel sorry for D88’s grand manoeuvres…
-
What do you think about this ?
-
What if you believe your religious beliefs don’t allow you to accept the validity of the nation state ? What if you think the only valid and legitimate political system is a Caliphate (logical under some interpretations of the Koran).
Ah Assmad, An interesting point and from anyone else duely worthy of long debate, however your previous history somewhat precludes any real effort. However, in short hand.
Beyond your overarching comment on the Caliphate (By the way, is that Sunni, Shia or which other version?), It is fair to say the “US special forces raids or US bomb attacks that hit Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians” as a stategy are not targeted at civilians unlike your friendly neighbourhood terrorist, so the comparision hardly flys. Whilst personally I would not agree and still find the cavemen views repugant, ingnorant and backward should their misbegotten vile be targeted against the government rather than innocents then perhaps they may have a shed of credability, instead they continually expose themselves as littl emore than murderers of their own people. These vile things murder other innocent people, mainly other muslims in search of some selfish illogical reward in the afterlife, hardly the kind of person you would want to hold up as hero. By their own statements, they are happy to sacrifice other muslims on earth to gain their own selfish rewards in the afterlife (which says nothing for the bizarre god they must worship_. So yes, you have point but it is debauched by the acts of deliberately targeting innocents.
Secondly, the sheer silliness of you (like so many other others) trying to link Iraq and Afganistan to terrorists shows a mentally time-line challenged personality. Bali..before or after? 9/11 before or after? Its a repugant pretence to try and justify these creatures acts by saying they are in a response to Iraq ror anywhere else. These sad little escuses for humanity kill and murder purely because there is no room in their squalid little world for any other view point (interestingly, there no common view point within their fetid, rancid squalor that is the heart of the beast).
You have picked up on the familiar but boringly inaccurate refrain of the terrorist apologist but what is missing in the debate (and the lack of which has always puzzled me). I could understand the Caliphate concept but nowhere is it debated or explained beyond some vague religious utopia. A rational person would think a group of people demanding sacrifice and death would at least be able to articulate their vision or be called upon by other senior Muslims to do so. Instead we have any number of ignorant myopic local thugs claiming a direct line to GOD’s wishes and seeming logical people just shugging their shoulders.
As an aside:
1. Are you seriously suggesting the Taliban was a preferable option for humanity in Afganistan?
2. If the Muslim world (after all we are all brothers) is so concerned about Iraq and Afganistan why not create their own stablisation force and offer to provide security and stability until formal elections can be held and the people can choose their own way. Pretty sure the yanks and others would love the excuse to withdraw..and WOW..perhaps people might stand to take the “we are all brothers” bullshizzer seriously. -
Cukurungan says:
1. Are you seriously suggesting the Taliban was a preferable option for humanity in Afganistan?
Yes for the real bigger humanity and not for the western fabrication humanity because you can check by your self when Taliban on power the opium production is on the lowest.
2. If the Muslim world (after all we are all brothers) is so concerned about Iraq and Afganistan why not create their own stablisation force and offer to provide security and stability until formal elections can be held and the people can choose their own way. Pretty sure the yanks and others would love the excuse to withdraw..and WOW..perhaps people might stand to take the “we are all brothers” bullshizzer seriously.
Why the Muslim should clean-up shit have been created by US and its ally in Iraq and Afganistan. We know that Saddam and Taliban is not good guy but both of them are still the best leader for their own people so far.
-
Guess they were busy beheading people, blowing up thousand year old statues, chucking acid in girls faces, and banning females from school..doesn’t leave much time for cropping.
Yep, Saddam was great for the people..of course we had that pesky little war with Iran and Kuwait..but hey what’s a few million Muslims dead…
Cuk..You really are your own worst enemy..but you do amuse us
P.S. What colour is the sky in your world?
-
Patung said
Ibrohim, the florist-inside man at the Ritz-Carlton, it’s official.
Who had also been a member of JI since 2000.
Isn’t it about time international hotels and institutions blacklist staff and related personel
that belong to this terrorist organization? Or shouldn’t it be disbanded altogether? If the police knew he was a member there must be a database that can be consulted. And I’m pretty sure ICG has a lot of information about their network too.I was sort of quoting Sidney Jones, she says there are some people who believe he has a mystic power to evade capture hence ‘legend’.
The same goes around in Muslim circles in Bali.
-
Ok Oigs,
Seriously now, not leaving out bits of the argument to be deliberately annoying.
What makes Top & Co terrorists is that they either deliberately target – or are indifferent to – damage and death of civilians and non-combatants. (Blaming James Castle for the invasion of Afghanistan is a bit of a stretch, to say the least). More importantly, if we want to understand the “terrorists” the businesspeople might have been Muslims.
If(and it’s a big if), you accept the radical Islamists’ world-view that’s a flaw – a perilous theological flaw – in the argument. That’s why alot of people in the JI network turned away from terrorism over the last few years — it’s not an efficient tactical weapon to achieve the objective: a Darul Islam, or Islamic society.
In your case, Oigal, I’d gently suggest your (very reasonable) anger and outrage at the attacks on civilians is getting in the way of a tactical analysis, at least on these posts. Isn’t it pure Sun Tzu to try to understand the enemy ?
-
P.S.,
Also, Oigsy,
A better message to put out in the radical Islamist community, rather than huffing and puffing and repeating George W. Bush rhetoric (like you did), is to say:
Noordin: if you want war, why don’t you ply your trade in Iraq, or Afghanistan ? That way you can be sure of attacking infidel soldiers rather than taking bets as you’ve been doing. (Gambling is haram, after all).
Noordin, if you went into a legitimate war zone, fighting uniformed soldiers, you’d get around all these doubts out here in South East Asia and be a real Mujahidin again. Why aren’t you there ?
-
Achmad said:
What makes Top & Co terrorists is that they either deliberately target – or are indifferent to – damage and death of civilians and non-combatants. (Blaming James Castle for the invasion of Afghanistan is a bit of a stretch, to say the least). More importantly, if we want to understand the “terrorists” the businesspeople might have been Muslims.
If(and it’s a big if), you accept the radical Islamists’ world-view that’s a flaw – a perilous theological flaw – in the argument. That’s why alot of people in the JI network turned away from terrorism over the last few years — it’s not an efficient tactical weapon to achieve the objective: a Darul Islam, or Islamic society.
That’s an interesting idea, but unfortunately, I think it flounders on two points. First, Islamist terrorists rarely give a sh*t about killing Muslims. From Iraq to Bali, they are acceptable collateral damage. Besides, if you end up killing Muslims and other Muslims get outraged over it, just blame the Jews or CIA!
Second, the JI mainstream that cut off the militant wing only did so at least after the host of arrests following the Bali bombings, and in reality probably only after several subsequent bombings. Most of the organization’s ‘dual-use’ members–the ones who were both operational militants and had clout with the ideological/pesantren side–ended up dead or in jail, while the organization’s militant infrastructure (not only its bombing capacity but also its “jihadis in poso” capacity declined).
That makes it seem likely like cutting off Top and Azhari was far more a strategic decision than an ideological one.
-
Dragonwall says:
I really doubt if the person that was killed is the person himself. Like someone say for every one of those shit head that was eliminated another 20,000 will spring up waiting to explode.
If Indonesia is not prepared to walk away from the colonial legal systems the current Indonesian Government is clinging on so tightly, you will still remain “what you are because of what you were”.
-
Doubt? Newspapers are there to be read dragie, not for wiping “leches” / “mocos” of whoever might have spilled it on you.
Separate note (not for dragie. but, hi dragie – tm):
Repulsive. This stinky old-fart must be sent to gulag.
-
Assmad,
I think you may have misunderstood (deliberately or no) my intent/and or outrage (?)
I do get annoyed at stupid tho, which (and I understand the burning need to provoke). As I said your second paragraph is well worthy of debate and certainly I believe the achilles heel of the psychotics. However the suggesting or implying that the Iraq or Afghan war is a root cause simply ignores time lines and historical facts, unfortunately moron after moron is brainwashed into believing this piece of revisionist history. The most glaring stupid is reasonable people do not challenge the inaccuracies and then pretend shock when the worst happens.
As an aside, I am not a huge supporter for the campains there but perhaps for differing reasons than some.
Your statement about the understanding is quite correct and the fanasty great caliphate is probably where it should start, unfortunately that is essentially something the various Muslim Communities have to tackle themselves, which despite the bullshiozzer posturing has not really and is not really being done.
Can anyway really deny that Afganistan, Iraq and Palistine for example as of more use to any number of muslim nations as disaster areas.
Oh and stop calling them terrorists, the name implies people live in terror of these pathetic creatures. people do not live in terror, they hold them in contempt..they are nothing more than murderers at best, refer to them as such and remove any link they have as connected to any religious brotherhood.
As for community and religious leaders failing their people, is there any greater example than the Somali’s being arrested in Australia. Here is a bunch of people whose homeland is racked by violence, mass murder and starvation yet they have been convinced that their religion demands they commit murder and suicide to response to issues in a land they have never even seen? Sadly this is already leading to restrictions on other Somalis trying to migrate to Australia and a hardening of attitudes to migrants across the board even tho its not the migrants who have commited the crime but normally the second and third generations..which is a direct community and cleric failure.
-
rather than huffing and puffing and repeating George W. Bush rhetoric (like you did), is to say:
More than a bit puzzled by this one…care to help me out here?
Noordin: if you want war, why don’t you ply your trade in Iraq, or Afghanistan ? That way you can be sure of attacking infidel soldiers rather than taking bets as you’ve been doing. (Gambling is haram, after all).
Noordin, if you went into a legitimate war zone, fighting uniformed soldiers, you’d get around all these doubts out here in South East Asia and be a real Mujahidin again. Why aren’t you there ?
Ok perhaps I could be called verbose but didn’t essentially say that here
It is fair to say the “US special forces raids or US bomb attacks that hit Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians” as a stategy are not targeted at civilians unlike your friendly neighbourhood terrorist, so the comparision hardly flys. Whilst personally I would not agree and still find the cavemen views repugant, ingnorant and backward should their misbegotten vile be targeted against the government rather than innocents then perhaps they may have a shed of credability, instead they continually expose themselves as littl emore than murderers of their own people. These vile things murder other innocent people, mainly other muslims in search of some selfish illogical reward in the afterlife, hardly the kind of person you would want to hold up as hero. By their own statements, they are happy to sacrifice other muslims on earth to gain their own selfish rewards in the afterlife (which says nothing for the bizarre god they must worship_. So yes, you have point but it is debauched by the acts of deliberately targeting innocents.
Could it be that you actually agree with me and you can’t handle the fact you too are becoming a card carrying stumpie liberal conservative…that’s four now..two more and I run for Prez
-
Oigs, Odin.,
Odin:
I think they do care about “collateral damage” to Muslims. But not for moral reasons – but because it’s bad PR. Part of the reason for the attacks is to promote their cause and attract new recruits. Saturation TV footage of weeping, jilbab-clad grandmothers mourning over a white funeral shroud doesn’t play well in Al-Mukmin, Ngruki mosque.
On the JI mainstream, yes, agree with you. Should’ve said part of the reason to move away from terrorism was theology. Most of the reason was tactical and strategic, ie terrorism isn’t working to hasten the advent of a Darul Islam.
Oigal:
Ok, there’s a lot there. But think we agree on most of it. Liberal conservative is where most sensible people end up as they approach and go beyond age 40. ; p
“Murderers” over terrorists is fine. In fact language politics is important in this case.
I agree, professional militaries and special forces go way out of their way to avoid killing civilians. Terrorists/Murderers are indifferent.
On the Noordin thing, I think a good message to put out is: Noordin, why don’t you go fight your Jihad in Iraq or Afghanistan, against real militaries. It’s hard to argue with. If he’s a real warrior and mujahidin, there’s real shit going on, where he doesn’t have to quibble over whether or not the Satpam or Bluebird taxi driver that got blown up goes to heaven or not.
I think they do think about these questions.
Achmad.
-
The Palembang would-be bombers were just about ready to blow up that cafe there – they called it off when they saw a Muslim family enter, however I can’t say what was running through their minds, ‘we don’t want to kill Muslims’ or ‘this will look really bad’, I suspect the former, but it is a sort of on the spot decision, not a broad, thought-out approach that we’re looking at in this particular case, so…
Oigal, or anyone else, one thing that has always bothered me about ‘liberal conservatism’ is that it constantly shifts with the times – for example a 100 years ago many liberal conservative positions of today, like those that you hold, would have been regarded as dangerously left wing – now fast forward a 100 years, and many of your liberal conservative positions will likely be thought of as dangerously right wing. So it’s not fixed, it’s flim flam, whichever way the wind blows.
I think a good message to put out is: Noordin, why don’t you go fight your Jihad in Iraq or Afghanistan
More or less what Abu Bakar Bashir said last week in Bulukumba, although he said go to America. Mahatir Mohamed also said the same thing – bugger off to America or Israel and fight there.
-
“Murderers” over terrorists is fine. In fact language politics is important in this case.
Too true..Somehow “terrorist” has in some circles to mean Muslim which in the West all too often means All muslims are terrorist and conversly many Muslim rally without thinking to the passive defence of “terrorist” as they don’t see a murderer but do see an attack on themselves.
To a certain degree everyone is guilty of defending their “tribe, nation, group, religion” when it is under perceived attack even when we know our particular little group may be in the wrong…That’s why the langauge politics is so important ..It would appear critical to disconnect the murderers from (in this case) the religion.The above is what puzzles me most, how on earth does the “West’ with its information technology and ability to produce/massage messages lose the information and propaganda wars..
On the Noordin thing, I think a good message to put out is: Noordin, why don’t you go fight your Jihad in Iraq or Afghanistan, against real militaries. It’s hard to argue with. If he’s a real warrior and mujahidin, there’s real shit going on, where he doesn’t have to quibble over whether or not the Satpam or Bluebird taxi driver that got blown up goes to heaven or not.
How about Dafur..Should be a fairer fight on open terms and the Muslims there are really being flogged unlike Indonesia.
-
AS said
On the JI mainstream, yes, agree with you. Should’ve said part of the reason to move away from terrorism was theology. Most of the reason was tactical and strategic, ie terrorism isn’t working to hasten the advent of a Darul Islam.
Several attempts have already been made to promote the idea of Darul Islam in the past, but to no consequence. The last elections have shown clearly that the majority of the Indonesian voters are not in favour of it. It seems that terrorism is the only way left, even if it’s only to keep the idea alive. IMO this is the reason why suddenly a new wave of attacks were planned – the one directed at SBY’s home to be the grand showpiece -after a period of relative calm.
On the Noordin t hing, I think a good message to put out is: Noordin, why don’t you go fight your Jihad in Iraq or Afghanistan, against real militaries.
Besides islamist rethoric I don’t believe he and his ilk give a damn about what happens in Iraq or Afghanistan, except for the training possibilities – also ideological – in the latter. The immediate goal is the establishment of a united SE Asean caliphate by first dividing the area into several mantiqi’s or operational regions, of which Australia is also a part. The dream of a world caliphate is of later concern.
-
ET,
On the Southeast Asian caliphate — true – he might not care about the Middle East. But that message in itself would be useful to get out.
-
Diego said
Repulsive. This stinky old-fart must be sent to gulag.
-
Suryo Perkoso says:
It’s not often I agree with my uncle Achmad, but he does offer a well reasoned piece above. I’m quite sure that Indonesia could even stomp up the ticket money to send Noordin to Iraq.
You also mention about collateral damage, and it seemed to me that almost on purpose that the TV failed to report adequately on the suffering of those families who also were involved, yet oddly we had “Sepurane keluarga iki” during the TV coverage of terrorist funerals.
Comment on “Densus 88 Raids, Noordin (Not) Dead”.
Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-20
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact
@Parvita
Surely Mbah Surips’s not in hell, is he?
On a related note, what is the attraction to an after life full of virgins all about, anyway? Let’s face it, if you live in a pesantren, you’re surrounded by virgins already.