Protecting Lebanon
Aug 19th, 2006, in News, by PatungPresident Yudhoyono remains extremely enthusiastic about sending peacekeepers to Lebanon.
On the 16th president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono reaffirmed Indonesia’s commitment to “protect” the Lebanese and Palestinian peoples from Israel. In his State of the Nation address the president said:
…we have stated our readiness to join with the U.N. Peacekeeping force, in order to protect the Palestinian and Lebanese peoples from Israeli attacks.
Ever since the conflict in the middle east broke out there have been endless calls to send the Indonesian army to the area, and, as noted here in Peacekeepers for Lebanon, the calls often have a strong note of belligerence to them.
The Indonesian armed forces are reported to have readied 850 men to be deployed to Lebanon and the Minister for Defence, Juwono Sudarsono, said the number of might be increased to 1,000. The plan to send the troops has met with near universal support among influential people, at least those who are quoted by professional Israel-baiting organs such as Antara. House speaker Agung Laksono was reported to have said words to this effect:
The House and all Indonesians denounce the Israeli attack against Lebanon, killing more than 1,000 civilians, including children.
But it seems there is a shortfall in equipment needed for the peacekeeping task. Juwono Sudarsono tells that he made a phone call to his counterpart in France with the intention of making a purchase of 32 tanks. Unfortunately:
But because France is on holiday throughout August then we won’t find out until after the 20th.
(Namun karena Prancis sedang libur sepanjang Agustus, maka saya baru tahu setelah tanggal 20.)
If the purchase does go through, he says, the Indonesian government has expressed the wish that the tanks be sent straight to Lebanon. Protecting the Lebanese people seems to be an urgent and expensive business.
Yudhoyono’s speech contained 400 odd words on foreign policy and a full 60% of those were devoted to the middle east, particularly to Lebanon and Palestine, two countries far away from Indonesia and of little practical importance to the life of this country. There are many other such similar places in the world, like Sudan for example, in whose Darfur region it is estimated that up to 500,000 people, mostly civilians, and many of them children, have died due to conflict since February 2003. Their lives do not seem to warrant the same concern for “protecting” as those in Lebanon however, Jews and America cannot be blamed for their suffering.
What’s more, as Israeli UN envoy Dan Gillerman noted, is that Indonesia, along with Malaysia, does not even recognise one of the parties to the dispute. He said:
It would be very difficult if not inconceivable for Israel to accept troops from countries who do not recognise Israel, who have no diplomatic relations with Israel.
and
…to expect countries who don’t even recognise Israel to guard Israel’s safety I think would be a bit naive.
But for the Indonesian military and politcal elite it’s all about “protecting” Lebanon, and tying the country’s identity and future to that of the dysfunctional, bickering, and backward Islamic world. Defence Minister Juwono Sudarsono let it be known that Indonesia will take no part in any disarming of Hezbullah troops even if they are required to by the UN.
45 Comments on “Protecting Lebanon”
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Hassan,
Why are you arguing these points? None of what you you are arguing about are from Allah’s revelations, they are the words of men.
Just to remind you Allah’s revelations or scriptures are Torah, or Pentateuch which are the first five books of the Old Testament, namely;
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
DeuteronomyAll of the rest of the old Testament is manmade.
These books are followed by Injeel, which was Allah’s scripture given to Nabi Isa, but which was only conveyed by him orally.
The first four Gospels were written according to mens recollections of Nabi Isa’s teachings;
Mathew
Mark
Luke
JohnWith only the first three, the Synoptic Gospels agreeing generally about the teachings, and even these intersperse the teachings with illustrations of Nabi Isa’s life. Only Mark and John were disciples of Jesus and eye witnesses to his life and teachings.
Matthew was one of the first twelve disciples of Jesus (Matthew 9:1; 10:1-4) and therefore an eye-witness; he records more of Jesus’ teaching concerning God’s heavenly kingdom than the other writers, for example the entire Sermon on the Mount.
Mark was Peter’s son (I Peter 5:13, possibly spiritual son), who wrote down what Peter said about who Jesus was, what He did, where He went and what happened; Mark’s gospel is therefore Peter’s account, an eye-witness account, written down by Mark.
Luke was a doctor and a co-worker with Paul (Colossians 4:14; Philemon v24). Because some spurious stories about Jesus were circulating, Luke decided to interview local eye-witnesses and people who had followed Jesus closely. Luke collated all the interviews into a single account, recording details not mentioned elsewhere, for example regarding the conception and birth of Jesus and Mary’s extended family, as you might expect of a doctor.
John was one of the first twelve disciples of Jesus and therefore an eye-witness (John 19:35); John brings out the spiritual significance as well as recording the practical aspects of Jesus’ works and words. John lived to be older than any of the other writers. It is therefore likely that he was familiar with their accounts and wanted to supeopleement theirs with additional teaching and miracles by Jesus which had a bearing on the situation towards the end of the first century AD.
Among the Canonical Gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke include many of the same passages in the life of Jesus and sometimes use identical or very similar wording. John expresses itself in a different style and relates the same incidents in a different way”” even in a revised narrative order”” and is often full of more encompassing theological and philosophical messages than the first three canonical Gospel accounts.
It is John that explicitly introduces Jesus as God incarnate.
But it is your choice, if you wish to argue about what men have created or recollected or made up, you just carry on doing it, driving a wedge between people must be very satisfying!
I prefer to try and persuade people of the commonalities of what God has given us!
Peace
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Molisan Tono says:
oh my bad about 1 king 5:33…
anyway, it’s easy to find error on the book. but as I try to figure out more and more, i find it useless to debate for sort thing like this. this is not corcerning of mine and your salvation. so, I’ll quit arguing this with you Hassan.thank you khafi for your help to explain the author of the first four book of gospels. however, I may add, there’s some study about who John is. is he brother of same mother with Christ… this is can surely say it’s confirmed. let see how it’s says later.
so, let’s back to the main issue Hassan, we are talking about why is it so hard for Moslem to accept that JESUS is the one who authorized for judgement throne. for the very start, you are opposing me about Jesus, Messiah and other things corcerning His Deity, Divine Being.
my question to you now, is “why looking for other flaw while you can find the perfect salvation plan for you in my bible?”
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Molisan Tono,
At least you have some historical and scientific investigation being carried out on your Scriptures, just try doing that on Islamic Scriptures, even if you are a Muslim!
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Hassan says:
Molisan Tono: because tono, you said that on Genesis 17:15-22
“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.”it was said the covenant is with isaac, and the messiah will come through isaac’s and david’s bloodline.
clearly contradicts Matthew 22:42-46 “What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” He said to them, “How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying, YAHWEH said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, till I put thy enemies under thy feet’? If David thus calls him Lord, how is he his son?” And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did any one dare to ask him any more questions.”
see also mark 12:35-37 and Luke 20:41-44
about your statement “why is it so hard for Moslem to accept that JESUS is the one who authorized for judgement throne”. because only the One True God, The Creator and Ruler of the Universe, who is “authorized for judgement throne”. not his allegged son, or some holy spirit.
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Mohamed khafi: “because my ways are not yours”, will suffice as an answer.
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Hassan,
The next time you are arguing using manmade verses from the bible, just remember this:
“…If any do fail to judge by what Allah(God) has sent down , they are unbelievers” 5:45
“…If any do fail to judge by that which Allah has sent down, they are tyrants” 5:45
“…If any do fail to judge by that which Allah has sent down, such are evil-livers” 5:47
Peace
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Mohammed Khafi: please understand that Molisan Tono and myself were arguing about whether “the messiah” as were mentioned in the bible was indeed Jesus. Molisan Tono certainly deeply believed in that, but i gave him evidences that proofed outherwise. and the evidences should come from the bible, because had i used evidences in the Quran as my argument then Molisan Tono would certainly not believe them.
I said my ways are not yours as a way to say that you might not understand my rationalising, my point of view, not as an attempt to quote from the bible. my apologies if you misunderstood my intentions.
as for Molisan Tono, I have no idea why he didn’t answer my last post, as even his own bible had proved that the Christ (messiah) was not from david’s descendants. and as we all knew, Jesus was from david’s bloodline, so the messiah couldn’t have been Jesus.
btw khafi, i realised that this kind of argument is against your faith of freedom and tolerance towards other people’s religion. but it was religious arguments between two people, it’s not that we published these debates or anything. it’s our way of informing one another. peace.
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Molisan Tono: cat got your tongue? there, your own bible had proven that the messiah was not from david’s bloodline. and as a good Christian, you must’ve known that Jesus was from david’s descent. so my friend, Jesus was not that messiah. who could that messiah (or the last prophet) be? could he after all be from ishmael’s descent i wonder?
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Hassan,
My belief in freedom of faith and tolerance, doesn’t mean that I will not debate with somebody if I feel that their beliefs are misled! 😉 It just means that I will not force others to conform to my views.
Faith and belief has to come from the heart and soul, you cannot make somebody believe at the muzzle of a gun barrel or the point of a knife or from any form of coercion!
Peace.
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Mohammed Khafi: believe me, no gun barrels and knife points involved here. just good ol’ fashion debate and dialog.
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no, no cat got my tongue my friend… just being away for a while catching my breath fron earning money for my son. hahaha
“as for Molisan Tono, I have no idea why he didn’t answer my last post, as even his own bible had proved that the Christ (messiah) was not from david’s descendants. and as we all knew, Jesus was from david’s bloodline, so the messiah couldn’t have been Jesus.”
Matthew 1:17
“So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.”
(you better read verses before that)Jesus obviously has same bloodline with king David.
regarding His deity as Messiah… don’t get fool with the words…
Jesus is not trying to deceive anybody… He is warning people at that time not easily mislead by false teaching from scribes of who Messiah would be.but just like you Hassan, you’ve got your own answer about messiah don’t you? well, that’s you own business with God. I have nothing to do with that.
like pilates… I would wash my hand from your way to the place I’m not going to… hahaha…
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Molisan Tono: boy oh boy, which part of the bible did you believe in? you said:
Matthew 1:17
“So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.”
(you better read verses before that)Jesus obviously has same bloodline with king David.
that, my friend contradicts with Matthew 22:42-46 “What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” He said to them, “How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying, YAHWEH said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, till I put thy enemies under thy feet’? If David thus calls him Lord, how is he his son?” And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did any one dare to ask him any more questions.”
see also mark 12:35-37 and Luke 20:41-44. all of them clearly stated that Jesus was not the son of david (from david’s bloodline).
so one part of the bible said that Jesus had david’s bloodline, and another part said Jesus was not from david’s bloodline? confusing isn’t it??
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Hassan… have you travel the earth? many peoples even astronauts said that earth is round… and many picture shows it… but do you believe it’s round? how do you know it’s round? what makes you believe it? you haven’t travel this globe aren’t you?
that’s simple type of question apply to those scribes when Christ confront them with that question about who He was and who He is.
Jesus knew that scribes thought they knew everything… while they didn’t, they are blinded and stupid… they wouldn’t understand a bit of what Jesus explained to them.
listen Hassan, understand holy book… not only mine… but yours too… it’s required mind, heart to merge as one combination. it’s not only required your understanding… but also require your humble heart to understand what God want from you.
I can’t insist you to believe what I believe… but i can show you how to read a holy book. it’s up to you want to believe in what way.
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by using faith instead of logic? i agree but to what extent?
ok, tono, then explain to me how you perceive those verses (22:42-46, 12:35-37 and 20:41-44)..
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Molisan Tono: just some corrections “in 1 kings 5:15; i didn’t find “basha died in 26th years old Asa”…could you please refer to me which one is it?” actually it’s not 5:15 as you said, but 15:33 as I had typed.
secondly, “job 26:11) “The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.” I wanted to point out that, when did you ever see the heaven (sky) had pillars (Indonesian:tiang)??
third, “I have no idea why both verse in english, one can miss “teen” for “eightteen”” if in doubt, you better check the online bible website to confirm it’s english translation. maybe the Indonesian bible had been edited.
I had more errors that i found in the bible, but I’ll wait for your reply first.