Islamic solidarity with the people of Xinjiang, or not, condemning, and getting along with China.
Genocide
Din Syamsuddin, leader of Muhammadiyah, but speaking in his role as the head of the “World Islamic Peoples’ Leadership” (WIPL) said on 12th July that the ongoing violence in the Chinese province of Xinjiang represented ethnic and religious cleansing, genocide, and a crime against humanity.
Din implored the Chinese government to cease its attacks on the Muslim Uighur people in Xinjiang and give them freedom of religion, and encouraged the United Nations to impose sanctions on the country.
Din Syamsuddin
Finally he urged all Muslims to pray for the Uighurs and give any help possible. detik
Tifatul Sembiring
Chinese in Indonesia
On 15th July the president of the Justice Party/Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS) Tifatul Sembiring paid a visit to the Chinese embassy in Jakarta, wanting to get first hand information about events in the Xinjiang capital Urumqi. He warned Chinese officials that those responsible for violence in the city needed to be dealt with – failure to do so might have implications for Chinese citizens resident in Indonesia: antara
Don’t allow this to cause problems for Chinese people in Indonesia.
One China
Meanwhile Indonesia’s ambassador to China, Sudrajat, said that Xinjiang was an internal Chinese affair, that Indonesia respected China’s sovereignty and would not interfere, and implicitly that Indonesia felt no special sense of Muslim brotherhood with the Uighur people.
Demonstration
Indonesia had always upheld the One China Policy in respect of Xinjiang, and also Tibet and Taiwan, and Sudrajat was confident the Chinese authorities could handle any problems within the framework of Chinese law. republika
Meanwhile an Associated Press report notes that most Muslim majority nations have kept silent over the Xinjiang riots issue, for fear of damaging trade ties with China, with the exceptions of Iran and Turkey. ap
To Oigal,
“failure to do so might have implications for Chinese citizens resident in Indonesia:”
“Why? Is that a major party leader threatening other Indonesian citizens? I thought there were laws against incitment?”
Hmm, does he mean all Chinese people in Indonesia, or does he only mean citizens of the PRC. I think he meant citizens of the PRC. Do I think non-PRC Chinese, like local Chinese, Singaporeans, Taiwanese will be affected. It really depends on the PKS and what they tell their members. Can an Indonesian tell a local Chinese from PRC citizen? Yes I think most Indonesians can tell the difference pretty easily. I am pretty sure they will have no problem distinguish Singaporean vs PRC Citizen. Although they might have problems with the Taiwanese.
What an absurd thing for Din to say. But then again, when it comes to politics based on perceived ethnic, nationalist and religious solidarities, there’s enough absurdity to go around. And around. And, for good measure, around once again.
Logic is: “damn you for oppressing those we feel close to, but have never met and probably barely understand. you are clearly violating fundamental human rights! but when we do something pretty darn similar? nah, that’s totally justified and not at all the same!”
@Oigal…missed you around these parts, buddy. Am in Indonesia again, at long last. Jakarta’s streets appear cleaner, but air appears more dirty. Strange…
I think he meant citizens of the PRC. Do I think non-PRC Chinese, like local Chinese, Singaporeans, Taiwanese will be affected. It really depends on the PKS and what they tell their members.
Does it matter? It’s an absurb, racist, logic challenged statement appealing to the base instincts of the lowest form of humanity more commonly known as “the mob”.
By the way how much influence does average chinese citizen have over government policy..sigh
The comment is made even more ironic by the picture accusing the PRC of being a racist nation…it fact you are so racist we going to XXXXX any chinese we see….go figure.
I should go on record as not being a supporter of the PRC but seriously these dimwits in the article makes one wonder how they remember to breathe without cheat notes.
Hi Ody, ..Good to see you back and yup sorry I have been a bit busy in the other world and have be remiss in “stirring the pot’ for awhile. Still not like I miss much, stupid is a continually renewable resource. I am gunna miss Kalla though, I was growing quite fond of the little munchkin and his sound bites for the laughter impaired.
Have you seen ASSMAD, I put him down somewhere before I left and now she gone??
Oigal said:
I should go on record as not being a supporter of the PRC but seriously these dimwits in the article makes one wonder how they remember to breathe without cheat notes.
Well, that’s what I was getting at. Ethnic, nationalist and religious ‘solidarities’ are always predicated on hypocrisy and double standards.
… And how many of them could even have found Xinjiang on a map a fortnight ago? Shouting and banner waving in the name of “Muslim solidarity” is catagorically the very last thing that the people of Xinjiang need. In fact, if anything, it plays into the hands of the government of China, who, since “9/11” have been very keen indeed to portray Xinjiang as a “terrorist”, “al Qaeda” problem (it is nothing of the sort; it is exactly the same as the Tibet “problem”).
Beardies in far-distant parts of the world showing “brotherly” concern for the Uighers do them no favours whatsoever. They are ultimately no more silly than whey-faced western youths with unclean hair and ill-fitting teeshirts blathering on about “free Tibet” without knowing the first thing about the place, but they are more detrimental to the cause of the people for whom they proffess concern.
with the exceptions of Iran and Turkey
As a random asside, in the case of Turkey this is because of not Muslim, but Turkic solidarity. Turkey has long been the traditional destination for Uigher exiles. In the early 20th Century there was some talk of a greater Turkic nation, encompassing all the Turkic peoples from Xinjiang in the east to Istanbul in the west, and Turkey (as the only “serious” Turkic nation) still harbours vague ambitions about being at the head of some kind of Turkic bloc.
Thought it might be worth cutting and pasting, in the name of context, my ramblings about the Xinjiang issue from another thread a few days back:
the situation in Xinjiang (referred to by Uighers as Eastern Turkestan) is not analogous to anywhere outside the country. There is only one place where the situation is comparable – and it’s comparable in virtually every way, in the historical context, the complaints, and the outlooks of all parties concerned. That place is Tibet.
At present I think it can be said with reasonable confidence that “Islam” is purely incidental in the Xinjiang situation, as a component part of Uigher identity (but much less so than being linguistically and ethnically Turkic, which in turn is probably less important than simply being non-Chinese).
The idea that “Islam” is at most a side-issue is abundantly demonstrated by the fact that the Hui find themselves on the “Chinese” side of the conflict, marching with the Han, (don’t forget, the Tibetans have historically shared at least some religious common ground with the Chinese – doesn’t make their complaints any less bitter)…There is, of course, the chance for the conflict to become Islamised, like so many other conflicts that happen to involve Muslims. Uigher identity is actually a very new construct. The name is taken from one of the early Turkic tribes that swept into Xinjiang before the arrival of Islam. However, its modern application to the people of Xinjiang only dates from the mid-20th Century. Prior to that people were identified “culturally” to a much smaller area – the city-oasis from which they hailed. People were firstly Kashgaris, Yarkandis, Hotanliks etc. If they had a wider “ethnic” and “cultural” identity it was as Turkis, but a man from Kashgar would have identified as closely with a man from Uzbekistan as with a man from Turfan (even though both are Uighers today)…
The fact that “Uigher” identity is very new, one would think, would give space for “Islam” to achieve dominance as the cultural factor, however, this doesn’t seem to have happened. I think the helpful existence of very large numbers of “Chinese” Hui Muslims – who are very distinctly culturally, ethnically and linguistically different from the Uighers – in the vicinity (the long-established “Chinese” population in neighbouring Gansu and Qinghai are significantly Muslim) is the key factor in keeping Islam on the far sidelines of the Uigher aspirations and identity.Secondly, Xinjiang’s Muslims are far more isolated from the rest of the “Muslim world” than virtually any other Muslim population – including Indonesia’s. This is, it must be said, mostly due to Chinese control of the state. There are certainly no madrassas in Xinjiang, children are banned from mosques, no one is allowed to study religion abroad, no one can make Hajj except on very tightly controlled state tours. Uighers do turn up from time to time in “terrorist training camps” in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and in other regional conflict zones (Afghanistan, Chechnya etc). However, such is the nature of state control in Xinjiang that once they’ve gone, they don’t have much chance of coming back.
The “Islamising” of a conflict requires a definite connection with the outside world. A very good example is Kashmir. The Islamising of the Kashmir issue was the deliberate project of Pakistan’s state apparatus – and concurrently by the “foreign fighters” who went there to “help”. As an illustrative anecdote, a Kashmiri guesthouse owner told me that in the early days of the insurgency in the late 80s when the fighters were all Kashmiri, tourists still came to his village; he had photos of foreign tourists playing cricket (!) with Kalashnikov-toting (local) rebels. It was only several years later when bearded foreigners started slipping in from Pakistan and screaming at the villagers for not going to mosque that these things changed…
Because of Xinjiang’s effective isolation, there is very limited chance of this kind of active “input” from outside – either by individuals or by states or organisations.Also, the cultural impact of “Islam” is relatively light in Xinjiang. It has never been a particularly conservative place. In the 1860s and 70s the region was independent under a man called Yaqub Beg. Like most of the rebel leaders there in the 18th and 19th centuries he was not a local, but an Uzbek from Andijan in Uzbekistan. He captured the entire area that now comprises Xinjiang and for about fifteen years kept the Chinese out. He was a religious bigot, banned alcohol, enforced the veiling of women, and mandatory prayer (all, apparently, alien to Xinjiang).
According to reports by Indian Muslim and Afghan agents sent there by the British, the stability wrought by Yaqub Beg was appreciated by the locals, but the “Islamic” aspect of his rule was bitterly resented.
Interesting, a century and a half later a lax sort of Islam endures there. Of various places I have visited during Ramadan, Xinjiang is that where I saw least observance of the fast, or rather most blatant disregarding of it!
And, it must be said, uncomfortable as it is, the severe Chinese suppression of religion has probably helped to keep things that way…Anyway, what I’m saying in all this digressive rambling, is that for four specific reasons – isolation, the nature of Islam in Xinjiang, the fundamentally ethnic nature of the conflict, and the presence and role of the Hui in the situation – Xinjiang will probably prove the most resistant conflict involving Muslims to being “Islamised”, either from within or without. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, but unlikely.
When I talked about the situation there being “Islamised”, note, I was talking about the situation there, not the situation as imagined in the heads of people in far away tropical countries…
Apologies for all the digressions; it’s just that I’ve been both somewhat excited, and somewhat disgusted that everyone has been talking about Xinjiang all of a sudden…
What? Xinjiang was not a genocide, Din should learn that it is a very strong and sensitive word.
timdog said:
Beardies in far-distant parts of the world showing “brotherly” concern for the Uighers do them no favours whatsoever.
I guess, at the end of the day, it’s not really about the Uighers or furthering their cause, it’s about the goat beards’ sense of entitlement and attempt to frame everything to fit their crude ‘clash of civilizations’ worldview. And, of course, to feel empowered by agitating and threatening violence.
But one thing no one has really brought up here is that most of the violence was emphatically not perpetrated against Uighers, but by Uighers against Han Chinese. Now that’s not to belittle the very real grievances Uighers have with the PRC–in fact it’s past time for the PRC to deal with them. But the indiscriminate attacks on ordinary citizens based on ethnic ascription are also pretty reprehensible. When Indonesia failed to address the immediate circumstances of the attacks on Madurese in West Kalimantan, and instead focused only on the underlying Dayak grievances, it was basically opening the door for the return of anti-Madurese ethnic cleansing in 1999 and 2001. China has every right to punish the rioters, albeit in tandem with a longer-term strategy of assuaging Uigher grievances.
We have seen this type of conflict numerous times.
uyghyrs in Xinjiang.
Tibet and Hans
javanese and tribesmen in Irian jaya.
Turks and Kurds.
Moros and phillipinos in Mindanao and surrounding islands.
Palestines and Israel.
takeover of minority homeland by mass migration and forced/subtle assimilation.
The state of sabah and sarawak in Malaysia managed to overcome this kind of greivance. Other Malaysian requires a passport to enter these two states, requires a work permit to work there and they can be denied entry. A foreigner for the states of sabah and sarawak includes malaysian from the peninsular. And domestic issues means issues which affect the two states only. To enter/leave the two states by air, you have to pass the international departure lounge, not domestic for flights back to KL.
Muslims would get along with crack addicts who claim ALLAH as god. So there is no worth to this whole statement. 3 bombings in Jakarta today but………..shit bombs. they barely made a cloud of smoke. Wallah Wakbar!
Muslims can kiss my and the western worlds collective ass!
I was going to say what Lairedion said…
Northern Ireland doesn’t compare very neatly to Xinjiang whichtever way you look at it, but if you hold it at the right angle and squint you can just about see a line of comparison between the Ulster protestants and the Han transmigrants shipped into Xinjiang as a tool of colonialism (only just mind you, and with very different timescales, hell, with different scales of all kinds). But even squinting through the bottom of a Jl Jaksa beer glass Uigher=Ulsterman doesn’t add up…
And the “Gaels” line is pretty much on a par with the “god gave it to us [a very long time ago]” justification of certain Israelis for utter negation of any Palestinian complaints, and is also tantamount to suggesting that for true “justice” to be done the entire population of Western Europe ought to engage in a kind of continent-wide game of musical chairs until the point where we all stand shivering confusedly around a campfire on the howling steppes of, oh I don’t know, Hungary, or Kazakhstan or somewhere like that…
Diego ..concur.. The apologists have run out of any cred particularly when you have that vile buck toothed peice of trash still mouthing off in the media and Pak DIM himself embarassing the nation with his intolerance.
Don’t allow this to cause problems for Chinese people in Indonesia.
No comment, except the analogy with the picture SBY showed of himself during his statement on occasion of the Carlton and Marriott bombings.
In areas of seperatist tendencies, autonomous rule should be encouraged.
Singapore just happens to be one of those that got more than they expected as they were given independence.
If cities in large countries were allowed to operate freely from central govenrment intereference, they could blossom into a country within a country, with their own currency and economic activities, and end up just like singapore.
As the largest city, situated in the largest country/economy in south east asia, maybe jakarta should be given this autonomy.
I wonder why muslims are not condemning the fighting and genocide in Somalia, Sudan or Iran just to name a few?
The bigger picture is to deny them (muslim of the world) the right to be as magnificent as they have shown to be capable. Just read about the bravery of Saladin. The fate is larger than all dark forces (zioniste, communist, ….) combined.
Islam Aleikoum
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He didn’t really say that that did he??? To save confusion perhaps Dim should explain what if he means freedom for all Religions or just those he doesn’t consider deviant..
Why? Is that a major party leader threatening other Indonesian citizens? I thought there were laws against incitment?
Having said that, its amusing watching those wishing for the fall of US dominance in the region having to grasp the realities of the alternative…be careful what you wish for.