Women Only Train Cars
Jul 15th, 2006, in News, by PatungThe Islamically oriented Prosperous Justice Party, PKS, is considering whether to change the railway law so that it requires every train to provide a women-only car.
In a debate over amendments to the RUU Perkeretaapian, the railways law, a member of the special committee dealing with the subject from the PKS, Abdul Hakim, said last week, 14th July, that the measure was needed because of the “inhumane conditions” of most train cars, especially in Jakarta.
And those who bear the biggest brunt are pregnant, elderly or working women who use the railway service.
He said sexual harassment was a pervasive problem on trains.
Women should be respected and Islam puts women in a high position.
He added that the party’s sole intention with the proposal was to protect female passengers from harassment, not to attempt to enforce Islamic law.
He later said that Indonesia may not be ready for such a policy.
We (the PKS) are still debating it. It’s true Indonesians may not be at the level where they can accept it. But I think it would be good for us.
(Kita masih terus membahasnya. Memang budaya kita masih belum menerima ini. Tapi saya pikir ini untuk kebaikan bersama.)
Most electric trains operating in Jakarta already have designated women-only cars, but enforcement of the regulation is nonexistent due to the huge number of passengers and shortages of cars.
That is why we want to include a special provision on cars for women, so that it will be mandatory and operators that violate it will be punished.
A transportation expert was skeptical about the proposal’s feasibility, especially on overcrowded trains. The chairman of the City Transportation Council, Soetanto Soehodo, said:
Such a policy would be best applied outside of rush hours when trains are not being used at full capacity.
37 Comments on “Women Only Train Cars”
-
Here is a relevant article in NYTimes (registration required):
And not just in New York. Mexico City and Tokyo have reacted to subway gropers by instituting all-female subway cars.
Note that I am not saying that I endorse or oppose women-only car in trains.
-
Hassan says:
that’s not new andrew, Islam had always placed women in a high position of dignity.
let me ask you:
how come America alone had more rape victims than all of the Muslim world?
men in Islam had the right to beat their astray wifes, but how come when it comes to domestic violence it is the west that broke all the records?
a broken home is a way to respect the women and the children?
western women indeed have more freedom but not better off than other place on earth.
-
Ryan Crontshaw says:
that’s why asian is better.. ;p
did you guys know that superpowers of the world will be the east asian countries? not middle easterns.. not western countries.. but east asians.. like Japan, China, and korea..
those guys have the power over world population, world economy, world technology, world industry, and many more..
so whatever you guys (and the world) are debating right now about Islam and non-Islam thingy, they are gonna just be quiet, and take over the world slowly and quietly..
-
Satir Kepelintir says:
@hasan: Women in the Muslim world normally do not dare to report rape cases because most of the times they are the one ended up being blame (and stoned to death) for ‘seducing’ or ‘tempting’ the rapists. I’ve read testimonials, case studies and reports regarding this matter.
In Indonesia, women do not report for fear of being talked about by their gossipy neighbours. Furthermore, very often the punishment for the rapists are incompArable to the traumatizing experience and the embarrassment that they might have to go through for the rest of their lives.
-
Funnily though Ryan Crotchshow, it is Islam the west is currently fearing the worst. That’s why they are doing all they can to stop Islam’s emergence. The Americans predicted with utmost worries that by the year 2030, there will be a new Islamic caliphate that will challenge any superpower.
-
Islam is currently feared by the west because those middle eastern countries have control over the world’s oil and also because the terrorist acts that they do all over the world. but that’s it. that’s about it.
if you think about it, which country gets the largest population in the world? CHINA.
which races run the majority of world’s economy? CHINESE and JAPANESE.
which country produce the cheapest home apeopleiances, automotives, or even those tiny needles ? CHINA. which country gets the most advanced high speed broadband internet? KOREA. which country has the most powerful ground troops in the world? CHINA. which country produce the most humanoid robot in the world? JAPAN.They are everywhere man.. and just like what russell peters said, “soon or later, they’re gonna hump you” lol
-
From my observation, the west are worried about the terrorists causing problem (in their counties especially) and killing innocent civilians. Other than that they are also concerned about what-they-viewed-as-human-rights-abuse in the middle eastern countries.
The west are on their way to find an alternative energy source, once they don’t need oil, I have a feeling they would not care so much about what’s going on there (unless if it has something to do with Israel).
But China, Japan and–don’t forget India, are definitely on their merry ways into dominating the world’s economy and the IT sectors. It’s such a pity that Indonesia who has all the potential in the world is so left behind because of rampant corruption and a radically orthodox way of thinking. Even Malaysia is faring so much better in adopting changes while still maintaining their Islamic ways of life.
-
I agree with Satir..
when I went to Malaysia last time, the tour guide even said this to us, “Unlike Indonesia, Malaysia is an open country to everybody, we don’t dicreminate any races, cultures, or even religions eventhough our majority of our culture and religion are based on Islam”
I’m not making that up.. well, the words might be different, but you know what I mean right? that is why Malaysia is better than Indonesia.
and even a friend of mine from Malaysia once said to me that she couldn’t understand how come a lot of Malaysians were used to study in universities in Indonesia and right now is the opposite way, many Indonesian students go to Malaysia to study.. oh my oh my.. (sigh)
-
Wel, I don’t dicriminate people based on religion or race Crotchshow, but I didn’t run the government, did i? maybe if your people aren’t so stuck up and proud, our people could mingle better.
*Satir: “what-they-viewed-as-human-rights-abuse in the middle eastern countries”. dude, all i saw was abu ghraib, masacre of haditha, Palestine and now Lebanon, what human rights? are the yanks there to implement those human rights or are they going to add to the missery there?
BTW, read “the clash or the civilization” or “the new American century”, it’s not those terrorists the Americans are afraid of, it’s Islam the religion. After the cold war, the USA faces two enemies that could foil their reign as a superpower. China, and Islam. to stop China, the Americans chooses economic approach like the one they used on Japan. And by dominating the oil reserves so the Chinese economy will stagnate without enough oil. And to stop Islam, well they must give Islam a bad name (by means of propagandas, deceit and lies) so as they hope to limit Islam’s growth and rate of spread.
-
Hasan: First of all, I just want you to understand that it is THE WEST who thinks that there are human right abuses over there. NOT ME. These are just some of the things I’ve gathered regarding what the West thinks is going on in the Middle East.
Okay, now that I’ve settled that particular point, I’ll move on by giving you some of those examples:
1. Female Genital Mutilation a.k.a Women Circumcision. It’s viewed as cruelty by many westerners even though it’s a social custom and sometimes it’s often justified by a controversial saying attributed to the Prophet Mohammed that seem to favor sunna circumcision.
2. Men and women are not treated as equal–Actually this has a lot to do with the issue of women having to wear burqa in many Middle Eastern countries. The West thinks that the women should have been given a choice to not wear it as well (the West, in particular the feminists, can’t understand this particular Islamic culture). In the worst of cases, these women were not allowed to leave their home, have a normal career and education.
3. A person is sold as or used as a slave. Many Arab royalties still keep slaves.
4. Punishments are dealt arbitrarily or unilaterally, without a proper and fair trial. Adding to that point is cruel, inhuman or degrading punishment used on a person (such as torture or execution). I’ve read many cases about women stoned to death/branded by hot iron rod because they are accused of infidelilty, seduction/tempting the men to sin by showing a little bit their skin even though what really happened was these women were simply raped.The previous are just some of the things I can remember off the bat. Once again, those are NOT my personal opinions.
Anyway, I agree on what you said about the growth and rate of spread. But more likely that fear is based on the fact that Americans already think that Islam and Socialism/Communism are “evil” (please notice the double quotation marks) even before they are thinking about how fast it’s growing. The worrying issue for them is “evilness” spreading around the world.
You must know that even though America is very progressive in terms of technology and education, Americans are also the most narrow-minded people around–I’m talking about the Middle America who actually is the majority when it comes to politics.It’s true that the US will become so jittery when it comes to nuclear program in other countries (recent North Korea incident) and they are also paranoid about terrorists shattering the peace and stability on the US soil. However, I don’t really see how Americans can be afraid of losing their superpower status to the Middle East since US military prowess is still the cream of the crop. After all, Americans not only have the technology, they also have the money and the resources. The Middle East is too volatile to grow technologically and economically to be able to compete with the world giants right now.
But when it comes to economy matters, I can’t deny that their grip on the world’s economy is loosening with China growing on a lightning speed and “stealing” the American technology they can get their grubby hands on–which probably also includes military technology. Therefore, I stand on the opinion that the Chinese are the bigger threat of the two.
Also, the campaign for alternative energy source is really hyped up recently. I think US is really trying to resolve the oil issue. I can imagine how scary the prospect is for the Middle East when the West eventually finds that low-cost alternative energy source. How much control would the Middle East have without oil as their prized weapon?
For now, though, they can relax a bit since it’s still quite a long way from that. -
BTW Hasan, I need to clarify what I mentioned about the West thinking Islam is evil. It’s not about the religion being evil. What they are really averse to is the tendency of becoming “extremists”. It’s ironic because any religion, just like Christianity during the Cruscade, have the tendency to be just like that.
Recently, there have been some efforts in the US to understand the authentic Islamic tradition. Some have started to realize that it’s nothing compared to their initial thoughts. As a result, they come to understand things like: the status of women in Islam which they so often criticize, what Jihad is, etc.
So really, it’s not all that bad with the Americans. But these things are just baby steps taken by the more progressive communities while most of Middle America is still isolated from the rest of the world (and sadly, the current US president is one of those people). I personally know some people who you could call as the Christian fundamentalists. These people really think that the teachings of Islam is evil and misguided. They also refuse to hear anything else besides the sound of their voices and that explains why they zealously support Israel because they truly believe that land was promised to Israel by God. After all, it’s clearly stated in the Bible. Their fundamentalist church also famously never forgets to drum that fact into their heads–forgetting the ultimate teaching of Christianity itself which is about love and hence, disapproves of war.
-
O. Bule says:
I am married to an Indonesain woman and have many Indonesian relatives, mostly living on Java. I converted to Islam when I married my wife, more than 15 years ago, and was very pleased by the way that Indonesians had adapted Islam to a tolerant, flexible society, that embraced both western and Asian ideas and ways of life.
Much has changed in the last 15 years, and, as far as Islam in Indonesia, much of it is bad, very, very bad. These so-called “Islamic” political parties are nothing more than political fronts for crazy religious fanatics, who will, the moment they are able, destroy all that has made Indonesia the wonderful place it is.
I pray to almighty God that Indonesians have the sense not only to avoid giving power to these evil people, but to eliminate them from Indonesian society altogether. Let Panca Sila be Indonesia’s creed.
O. Bule
-
but ah, O.Bule if you’re truly a Muslim then you must know from reading the Quran that we must let Allah SWT, through the Quran and hadith, be our lawgiver, not Pancasila.
yes, satir, I always believe there is a huge cultural gap between Islam and the west. and it disturbs me to hear statements made by westerners condemning Islam and Muslims, statements and condemnations which were based on their own cultural standards. i wondered what happened to tolerance and understanding between cultures these days. more and more people had resorted to prejudice and bigotry when it comes to judging fellow human beings with different religion and cultural background. just read at some people’s comment on this website or other sites. we often considered the other party as martians or something from other galaxies. instead of trying to think objectively, peple (including me sometimes maybe) often resorted to using their own culture as a standard to judge other people’s culture or religion. more of this behaviour had shown up ever since the 9/11 hoax.
-
“O.Bule if you’re truly a Muslim then you must know from reading the Quran that we must let Allah SWT, through the Quran and hadith, be our lawgiver, not Pancasila.”
Thank you for your reply, Hassan. I am a citizen of the USA and as such, Moslem or not, I believe in the separation of Organzied Religion from the State. I do not want to see Sharia law in Indonesia, or anywhere esle for that matter. Governments and laws should be secular, not religious. Put simply, I believe that one should “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God, that which is God’s”. I say again: Let Panca Sila be Indonesia’s creed.
O. Bule
-
Bule, just because Christianity had failed in that department doesn’t meant other religions shouldn’t do that too. I am well aware that when the church had both the power of God and state, there were shall we say.. mishaps. the church got too dominant and abused it’s power. now, there’s no such thing in Islam though. Muslims were better off without that kind of separation of power. in the time of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Madina was just that example, no separation of power there. Muslims thrived then and we are much better off under the chaliphates afterwards. Now, look at Indonesia, we adopted secularism ever since our independence and look where it got us, from a land with rich natural resources into a third world country. The US is a good example to show that secularism had succeded in creating a modern country phisically, but with poor spiritual insights and morality. Hey, the US will not win any prize under the category of lowest criminality and highest standard of decency.
Bule, it’s not about choices, by accepting Islam, not only that we must accept Allah SWT as our Lord and Muhammad (pbuh) as His messenger, but also completely accept His rules and laws He sanctioned for us, the Sharia.
-
nope, ‘defend’ is not the word, ‘clarify’ is the correct one. but point taken.
-
Andrew says:
Hassan said: “… how come America alone had more rape victims than all of the Muslim world?”
Because in America (almost) every rape is reported, and data collection is paramount.
It’s that simple.
-
Tomaculum says:
Hassan,
I read some of your comments and discussions about Islam.
My questions: do you really understand Al Qur’an? Would you really say you understand this beautifull holly book? (I’m a non-Islam). Do you really believe, that the fall down of Indonesia to a 3rd world country is caused by a secularisation? Very simple explanation, isn’t it? What about corruption, is this a result of secularisation?
You wrote about the westerner condemning Islam and Muslims. How many westerners do you know? Do you know, that there are many Islam symphatizers in Europe? They have a difficult position right there, don’t defame them with your generalization.
A “little” story: in an Italian city a 20 years old Pakistan born girl was slaughted (yes, her neck was cuted with a knife) by her father and uncle to save the familiy honour. Why? She didn’t want to go back to Pakistan to marry a cousin and she had already an Italian boy friend.
Some weeks ago in Germany: a young Muslima was executed by her brother with a pistol also for the honour of the family, because she refused to marry a relative.
In Nigeria a woman sentenced to death by stoning, because she was raped. And the raper: free.
May be we shouldn’t wonder, when people don’t believe the statement about the high position of woman in Islam.
You and I (may be) know, that such things do not exist in the Islamic jurisprudence, isn’t it?
Or Hassan, help me to understand it. Because many of my still friends in Indonesia are Muslima and Moslems. And I love them.
By the way: the comment of Andrew is just partially right. Not every rape in the USA or Europe is reported. There are still high counts of non reported/ detected rapes (especially such, which happened in the family).In many countries (I don’ want to use the term “Muslim world”) with more or less Islamic jurisprudence based law is the cultural and religious live still very strong influenced and based by the origin social culture conventions, where there is no assigned position for the women except as apparently rightless wife and mother (in our Indonesia is this not the case, isn’t it?).
Unfortunately this is interpreted as a religious matter (in ancient Europe it was a similar situation with the Christianity!!!). So the victims (usually women) have just disappearing chance to get their right. On the contrary they some times accused to seduce the rapist.People,let us behold and discuss the themes objectively, with cool heads, and: civilized.
May be we can find a solution for some problems of this world (even just for us self).
Sorry for my broken english. Originally I speak Indonesian, Javanese and German. -
Molisan Tono says:
women only train cars ay??? who drive that car?
Hassan Says:
July 27th, 2006 at 2:50 am
“but ah, O.Bule if you’re truly a Muslim then you must know from reading the Quran that we must let Allah SWT, through the Quran and hadith, be our lawgiver, not Pancasila.”is that what your Quran told you mate? believe Allah SWT and be a rebellion to your nation? no wonder Islam need reconciliation.
hey Hassan… you asked me one why Jesus pay taxes for Romans.
He was trying to show you mate, that He still respect the authorized government… in other word he also say this…”He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.” – Luke 16:10 – KJVif you can’t stick with Pancasila just because you think sharia is the better answer, then you’re not faithful to this government. what will guarantee you will loyal to sharia law?
-
Molisan Tono: “hey Hassan”¦ you asked me one why Jesus pay taxes for Romans. He was trying to show you mate, that He still respect the authorized government”¦ ”
that is exactly why the Jews rejected Jesus. the messiah (the last prophet) they were waiting for was suppose to be strong, and will vanquish their enemies (the romans). but Jesus was not that strong leader they were expecting.
Islam is Allah’s kingdom (dominion) on earth. and nations are just man made. nations and empires comes and goes, but not God’s kingdom. the romans fell, just when the people back then thought that their empire will last forever. can you guarantee that Indonesia will last forever and will be the best form for us, eternally?
-
Molisan Tono: I had once said that the Jews offered Jesus to be their king, but Jesus did not accept it and avoided the responsibility. your answer is “offer Jesus a job? maybe you read comic dude, not my Holy Bible.”
now, try to google this entry “the Jews offered Jesus to be their king” or log on to http://focusonjerusalem.com/theJewsandtheirkinginprophecy.html
now, why was it that Jesus refused to be their king, refused to lead the Jews against their enemies? because he is not ‘that messiah’!
-
Ismail says:
Hello Hassan, I am sorry to say but I have to, Islam is a negative to the world, it has no real value, it can’t be reformed or understood cause it has no standard, the god of Islam can’t help himself, it can’t be persuasive but cohesive, even for that he uses Muslims.
Islam is a pain to humanity, every culture that Islam comes in contact with, it has distroyed.most people don’t know Islam at all because they simply have not studied its text properly(Muslims and non-Muslims). even without the study its displays are evident. it’s all over the world, for a more recent picture look at Aceh.
-
Hassan, there’s a weakness in your opinion. do you know when Jews hand over Christ to Pilate, there is a king who is still reign under roman authority? his name is Herod… Jews is not only rejecting Christ as King, they also rejected Herod, for they scream out “We have no king but Caesar”… their hatreth is deeper than what you thought.
if they could simply blindly rejected Herod, the king with a phisically throne, how come then can’t rejected Christ, a messiah and king who doesn’t bring His throne to earth? do you know what it mean if Christ bring all his troop and His Kingdom to this earth?
it’s not Jesus who rejected His call, it’s Jews who rejected Him. He is doing His call from God’s view of point, not your point nor mine. Ofcourse you have the same point with Jews that the Messiah should be strong and powerful… but do you know the big secret here Hassan?
if Jesus is not a King, why is He scared your hell off?
your religion and your Moslem party was pissing on their pants knowing that Christianity is growing and guess what, they burn down churches or torn it down and claimed it for Allah sake… of course this is not apeopleicable to friendlier Moslem… it’s only your men I guess. -
Ismail : i dont need any more anti Islam rhetoric Ismail, I’ve heard most baloneys you people had thrown in our face.
it is Christianity who had been responsible for the most violence in the last millennia, not Islam. WW I and II? hiroshima? holocaust? imperialism? black (African) slavery?
Molisan Tono: I am, and we are not scared of Christianity. Christianity is a religion built on weak doctrines. your priests had led you to blindly belief in those doctrines. trust me or don’t trust me, it doesn’t matter. we will find out on judgement day, wouldn’t we?
I don’t belong to any party.
people burn down churches because it is illegally built, without the consent of the local authorities and the people, and not because they did it for Allah’s sake.
-
Hassan, Islam is so weak its can’t stand to be critizied, its god you right call Allah is so weak he makes you guys fight for him, its convenient for you to blame Christianity for what people have done and yet have no backing in the Christian text, yet every act Muslims perform is not only a presentattion of the text but of its traditions.
Muslims say the bible text is messed up and mixed up, yet it contain more LOVE than all the hate anger and murder contained in the Quran, read the Quran and the hadit bukhari and Muslimi for yourself( not what some mullahs say) I am not talking of recitations i mean real study in a familiar language if you can manage it.
you said the churches were burn’t down because its illegal, so you need a irate Muslims to burn it not the state instrument, only Muslims reason like this.
you can critizies Christianity as much as you want you can even say Islam is the fastest growing, and you can go on to say the injil, zabur and tauret(bible) are all corrupt. it doesn’t change the fact that is Islam is blood thirsty. and its still a pain to the world. and its will eventually lose
-
well, I guess we should made a very important meeting on the judgement throne than… i hope i can see you there Hassan. can’t wait any longer.
-
Ulf says:
Women-only buses, cars, trains, planes, UFOs, etc., is just a pathetic excuse for lacking the governmental authority to enforce tough punishment on those performing the harassment.
Societies all over the world are men-centric and the first thought is to distrust what a woman says just for being female. Her word is not taken for granted unless there are male witnesses who want to come out up front in her defense. Should a group of female witnesses speak out, they would still be held not very trustable by local authorites.
It is clear to me that at least one participant in the forum believes himself an authority on Islam and a very pious one, by the way. He still cannot tell women apart from cattle. He defines the honour of a woman by the level of submission the woman provides to the satisfaction of her husband, father, son, uncle, nephew, brother, cousin, etc.
Same as Christianity has corrupted its very own roots, some Islamic radicals are corrupting the very teachings of Mohamed, purposely misinterpreting them to gain power over women.
Those unfair to women will not win heaven. Paradise will be neglected to those treating women as slaves for Allah is merciful and loving with those who live and die for justice-sake, yet merciless with those who praise injustice.
-
Hassan says:
Molisan Tono: and if I was right and you were wrong? what will you do then, dude? 🙂
I’ll be sure I’ll try to find a dude named Molisan Tono then, and we can say “i told you so” to the one that had believed on the wrong religion. 😀
-
World War I and II, Hiroshima, Holocaust: Christianity is responsible for those?
For black (African) slavery too?
Hassan, more and more I have the feeling that you just read parts of books or articles for your polemic.
As we know: the religion in Japan is Shintoism/Buddhism. Hiroshima was a great failure of the USA, but not of the rest of the so called “Christian world”.
Holocaust was the work of Hitler/German National socialism. There are in fact many Christian sympathisers (of course, because the majority of the Germans were and are Christian) at that time and also nowadays for this, but: this was not a Christian work.
Who caught the blacks to be sold for the slavery (answer: “white” north Africans, which are mainly Moslem). Don’t you know there were many black slaves too in Islamic north Africa?
By the way: the main motive of the imperialism were and are economic/financial interests, the religion was and is in this case a further motive. Columbus tried to find “Indies” (so they called the native Indian), in anticipation to find richness.
“Wrong religion”? Masya Allah, Hassan. Istigfar!!!!
Comment on “Women Only Train Cars”.
Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-2023
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact
“…and Islam puts women in a high position.”
That’s new.