Israel Gaza Strip Conflict
Jan 5th, 2009, in News, by Patung
Protests against the Israel attacks in the Gaza Strip mirror those over the 2006 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
A video of a recent Justice Party/Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS) march through Jakarta over the Israeli attacks on the Gaza strip:
Some stories from this site about Indonesian reactions to the 2006 Israeli invasion of southern Lebanon:
- Israel & Lebanon
- Israel & Lebanon II
- Radicalising of Indonesian Muslims
- Peacekeepers for Lebanon
- Anti Israel Christians
- Ariel Sharon’s Punishment
- Lebanese Jihad
- Paroxysms of Outrage
- Protecting Lebanon
- Dwiki Dharmawan Joins the Chorus
- Israel’s Rejection
- Helping Hizbullah
By changing the dates, and some of the names – “Lebanon” to “Palestine” or “Gaza”, “Hezbollah” to “Hamas” or the “Palestinians” – , the stories then are essentially the same as those now, – stories of mass demonstrations, calls to send troops, (basically fake) efforts to recruit volunteers, official calls for calm and the sending of humanitarian aid only, fund-raising, condemnations, etc.
175 Comments on “Israel Gaza Strip Conflict”
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DumadiSatrio says:
What I find most hard to understand….is why it gets so much attention.
In the last 10 years over five million people have been killed in the Congo Civil wars.
500,000 killed and millions displaced in Darfur by the rulers of Sudan (not to mention the never ending civil war in the south).
China still occupies Tibet….. and they just hosted the Olymipics.
What about the Berbers of North Africa? Nobody cares……nobody really cares about any of this stuff.
In fact I’ll bet most people reading this did not even know there was a civil war in the congo.But anytime something happens to arabs it is the biggest catastrophe of all time (I dont mean to minimize it at all, however…lets face it…Israel vs Gaza is no Rwanda…and who cared about Rwanda?)
Anytime something happens in that silly part of the world it is front page news all over the world. It is the most important thing in the universe. Everyone takes sides. Everyone’s emotions go off. Nothing else is more important. yadda yadda.
That is what I dont get.
These people can have peace. They are stupid bickering cousins, who simply refuse it.
Yet, we vest so much into them….Why? Why is desert tribal warfare among a bunch of people that would hate you anyway, more important than anything else on the planet?There are more deserving problems.
Starvation kills 6 million children each year…..where is the outrage? Where is the energy on the street to end global hunger?
Where are the people demonstrating for peace in Africa?
They are busy doing something else……….but when the jews and arabs fight! Oh, then it is the most friggen important thing ever.
People did not even get off the couch for the civil war in congo…..but arabs and jews fighting, well that deserves everyone to get involved. Phffff.maybe you see what I’m trying to say…maybe not. but maybe I can sum it up:
Jerusalem is NOT the center of the universe. There is nothing more special about their silly tribal warfare, than there is about the silly tribal warfare that happens elsewhere in the world (…including in Indonesia…).It is time to stop treating them like they are.
Maybe once they stop getting attention, they will grow upTill then they will continue playing out their religious passion play of self fulfilling prophecies.
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dragonwall says:
Don’t ever think that Indonesian people are stupid,
Yes I think Indonesians are stupid. Stupid to be engage in a controfversy that isn’t hers.
so that you can inform us with your propaganda. we had enough to see your propaganda through CNN and any other media that you own.
Whose propaganda is that then?
We had been following your history not from 1917, but since 35 century ago, since the propeth of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad SAW until now.
You! 35 Centuries! You were only born yesterday and yet followed things that happened beginning 35 centuries ago! And if you had followed things that happened 35 centuries ago then your perspective will be different.
We know all of your tricky thing. You are the most genius people on earth as being promised by the Qur’an nor the Bible. But because of your greedy, un-trusted manners and destroying everything you can to achieve your goals, God hate you and thats why you CANNOT have even a country nor a piece of land on this earth.
I suppose it is the other way round.
You promise not to bomb the medical team, but you bomb it
Pancasila promise to protect all Indonesian citizens but what happened?
You promise not to bomb the UN School but you bomb it.
Sukarno allows Chinese school to be opened but yet the Indonesian government prhibits them until lately, how come?
You promise not to kill the civilian, but you kill them.
The ABRI swear to protect all Indonesians and why are they the ones that instigated and conducting the raping?
You promise not to occupied Gaza, but you will do it this time.
Because someone broke the promise not to send suicide bombers.
How can we trust you?
Are you Palestinians? Who ask you to trust the Israelis.
You even bomb the Mosque and Church in there, its a holy place, how could you????
Well Indonesian attacked, destroyed, and burned down thousands of churches throughout Indonesia comparing to one or two. What a difference.
If you want to check or even clean the place from the bomb, you can search itu by your land troops, not bombing itu..STUPID.
I think if it is you then you will also be STUPID to do carpet sweeping because you understand but choose to ignore the risk in it right?
You are using the Uranium bomb (no other country should use this way, but you the only one use this kind of bomb).
When Atom bomb was build, they were not suppose to use that and yet they use it on Hiroshima.
No other country using the Cluster bomb, but you dare to use it.
I was use long before you really understand during the Vietnam War.
You are very scared aren’t u? paranoid.
And I would say that you should be scared out of your paranoia.
I hope you can realise what you had done and you fix this as soon as possible if you want everything changes.
You should go around and tell the Palestinians to stop what they have been doing to stop the war.
Otherwise there is no end to it.
No one wants to know the origination of the conflicts but putting blame on others for the conflict.
I bet you if I serobot you land right next to mine, I am damn sure you will do everything to get that back and the suspicious and hatred will arise.
This is exactly what is hapenning.
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diego says:
There’s one thing that really perplexes me. This dragonwall guy.
Why is he always dragging the topic of (any!) conversation into indon-chinese and the “indo-chinese pogrom that took place in indonesia by racist stupid poor useless brown stinky inferior indonesians”?
I mean, wow, talking about egocentric.
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Isn’t the topic is with regards to conflicts and atrocities.
Isn’t the the same indo chinese pogrom similar to this.
Everyone saying the Israelis bullying the Palestinians, Isn’t the Chinese being bullied by Indonesians?
You agree with this
“indo-chinese pogrom that took place in indonesia by racist stupid poor useless brown stinky inferior indonesians”?
So how could I be an egocentric unless you are referring to yourself! Just too bad.
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Wow, get some fresh air dragie. You’ve stayed for too long in the closet.
Everyone saying the Israelis bullying the Palestinians, Isn’t the Chinese being bullied by Indonesians?
You get it all wrong. I think now I understand the reason for your support for israel. You both love to whine, going around, crying out the same old tired story “we’ve been persecuted, we’ve been persecuted, all the time”, when the (current) reality speaks quite the opposite.
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Now I get it why you are whinning and sighing and beginning to breathe more like human to understand about conflicts.
It is the issue of CONFLICT.
You didn’t pretend that the conflicts in Indonesia does not exist any longer?
For me I am not taking side, but the topic at large.
Everyone is saying Israelis is wrong, Prove it they are wrong before you speak.
And if you speak of the current reality then there won’t be churchs being destroyed recently and all the craps.
THe only thing different is that the minorities in Indonesia is not on a different territories and if they are there might be another issue of Indonesia conflict between minorities.
Please don’t pretend that these does not exist by trying to champion what you considered to be your liberal thoughts.
Look more closely to things is that you will tend to pick and choose and then say someone is wrong. So look yourself into the mirror and say to yourself who is taking side.
Just because someone applauded you doesn’t make you God.
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Stupid to be engage in a controfversy that isn’t hers.
Don’t you think Indonesians should be more concern about their internal affairs instead of interferring and taking side in Mid Eastern Affairs.
The only thing is that everyone is only interested is that they are Islamic countries.
The FPI are those who are empty vessesls who tried to champion the Jihad when knowing that there is no way of getting into there at least say someone.
If this world has less these kind of nonsense then the world would be a better place to live in.
Uness you choose to follow those into the Jihad so that you could GO and DIE.
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The entire arguments do not change and even validate the fact that the existing conditions that I presented earlier do exist in this ongoing conflict between Israeli and Palestinian. Unless those conditions are removed, the cycle of violence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip is yet to continue.
State of Israel being that small country is the only country on Earth that receives billions and billions of dollar aids from the US Government since the inception of that country. In 2007, the amount of these aids have reached to $30 billion dollar a year. That’s $2.5 billion dollar a month, a lot of money for that tiny State. What is the political condition behind this unwavering financial and military support by the US Congress? That will establish the fact that USA and Israel is not the same as Indonesia and Malaysia. It is completely uncomparable, just like orange and apple!
The Jewish people have gone through so many trials and tribulations from the time of Pharaoh in Egypt, King Nebuchadnezzar during the Babylonian Empire and then the Nazi Hitler in Germany. Those historical facts have thought us that the Jews at some point were hunted down for their very own mischief. It had happened repeatedly. Those repeated events or tragedies are undeniable historical facts. Will this phenomenon happen again to the Jewish people for the 4th times as Prophesied? Time will tell. We can only follow the the current situation, understand the Zionist movements and predict the future.
There are 2 critical developments in the Middle East that worry so much the Jewish folks in the USA and in Israel at large. They believe that for the survival of State of Israel:
1. No Arab country shall be allowed to have the knowledge or the know how on Nuclear program.
2. No Arab country shall be allowed to have any Nuclear weapon.President Bush worked hard to prevent these 2 things from happening during his administration. He fails as he is too wrapped up with the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and the failing economy at home. He has become the lamest and lame duck President in his last term in office. Iran is the biggest benefactor from all of these conditions.
The US Government, US Congress and Israeli lobbyists on the Hill have agreed and understood that for the survival of Israel State, the IMBALANCE power in the Middle East shall be maintained, in which State of Israel must have the upper hand over the entire Arab countries in terms of weapon technology, Nuclear technology and Military Forces. No Arab country shall be allowed to have the knowledge or the know how on Nuclear weapon.
That was why when Iran declaring that she has the needed technology to produce enriched uranium for energy, the reactions and the efforts from the US and Israel to destroy the nuclear reactors was very strong. There are continuing covert operation by the US Government to buy or take away all Iranian nuclear scientists from Iran to United States with guarantee of safety and prosperity.
When the Chief of Iran Nuclear Program showed off his nuclear program at Tehran University openly and publicly, he has a very specific purpose. It has come to pass that Iran indeed has the burning desire and knowledge to make Nuclear power putting Iran in the same club as Pakistan, North Korea and India. This is a new development that worries so much the Jewish people in the US.
The second critical development is the current political condition in the USA with the victory of Senator Barrack Obama in capturing US Presidency and the Iran’s ability to keep enriching uranium. Without any significant ability by the US Government and the U.N to pressure Iran to halt her nuclear program, the State of Israel is getting nervous and nervous each day. The fact that Hamas and Hezbollah have the ability to attack Israel with longer and longer range of rockets, it disturbs much of the Israel politicians to protect its people safety and security.
Once a single Arab nation is allowed have and posses a Nuclear weapon, the balance power in the Middle East will dramatically be shifted and the chance for the State of Israel’s survival is getting smaller and smaller, unless she changes policy. The fact that President-Elect Obama is taking the path of Diplomacy with Iran; it gives Iran Government more time to drag their feet to keep enriching uranium. The clock is ticking and Israel is not happy with the direction going.
But the path to lasting peace and security is still wide open. Not only the US and Israel have to work thing out. The whole world have to take part on this issue. But again and again, the arrogant and mischief from the Jewish State with the support of United States of America turn the world away from this conflict. Let them kill each of the other, who cares! These are some of the attitudes out there.
Not only the nation of Israel has the right to exist, every nation on Earth has the right to exist. The question is how one nation shall exist? For the continuing survival of State of Israel, Diplomacy shall be the path to take. War and destruction can only deepen the hatred. From watching the current nuclear program in Iran and other Islamic countries worldwide, Israeli’s change of survival is slimer and slimer. I am afraid that the prophecies are yet to fulfill in our lifetime. The world leaders need to take on a different path to save the Middle East from any nuclear disaster.
As far as my personally contribution and what I can do for Indonesia and its people on poverty and injustices, Please, revisit this link and website. Use Mozilla Explore Internet Browser to view it better. I have addressed openly and publicly about top critical issues facing Indonesia and what need to be done. I continue to do so.
Everyone has every right to discuss on anything and present ideas on any issue at any given time. The fact that the conflict between Israel and Palestinian continues for all of these years, it establishes the fact that up to today, there is no idea that is good enough to resolve the issue. For anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling no body but herself/himself.
http://www.indonesiamatters.com/2431/presidential-debates/
Sent by:
Chris Komari
Founder/Chairman
Future Indonesian Independent Party
http://www.futureindonesia.com -
andrea says:
Who do you think is responsible for the Gaza / Israeli conflict? Do you think a third party such as the U.S., Palestinian forces, Nato or the U.N. have a responsibility to intercede? Why or why not?
can someone answer me i am curious about it…
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Oigal says:
You have drifted a fair way of topic there Chris, nuclear power in the middle east now..mmm ..you may make a good pollie yet
I have addressed openly and publicly about top critical issues facing Indonesia and what need to be done. I continue to do so.
Yea I saw that..What was it..the government should give everyman woman and child in Indonesia (or was it every family…no matter) a million dollars US and that would elimate poverty…Gee so simple, I guess Australia could do the same (onlY 30 million over there),
I wonder what could be the flaw in the plan??? ..laugh..Thanks for that it lightened up are rather dismal day
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Saipul says:
This Chris is a joke, I think. Or he has very strange opinions for a Christian Indonesian (he does have a Christian name). Not $30 billion a year, friend. The US gave Israel $2.5 billion for all of 2008. And that number has been declining every year since 2000, when it was nearly $4 billion. At the same time, the US gave $500 million to the Palestinians in 2008, making them the single largest donor to the Palestinians.
I say let them fight each other to extinction.
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I have specifically identified the top 10 pressing issues facing Indonesia loud and clear and what need to be done to address those critical issues. I have addressed those issues in my 14 pages document that I sent out publicly to Indonesia’s media at large, political parties and Indonesia’s Presidential candidates. Below is a link to those top 3 pressing issues.
http://futureindonesia.com/issues/
We strongly believe that unless these top 10 issues (at the very least the top 3) are resolved once and for all, there is no much for any new President of Indonesia can do to make any significant change regardless how genius this new President might be. I am that confident! We have come up with comprehensive plans and options to address those issues and we continue to make the case with many Indonesian prominent politicians and parliament members.
In a short summary, combating poverty in Indonesia is just empty rhetoric as long as Indonesia is still in this massive debt trap, billions and billions of US dollars. Any attempt to resolve unemployment is only empty promises if the weakening Indonesian’s currency (rupiah) for the last 28 years left unresolved. The weakening Indonesia’s currency for the last 28 years is the ultimate measure of Indonesia’s failed economy policy.
The dire condition in many remote villages across Indonesia cannot be elevated if Central Government in Jakarta continues to suck up much of the national Government budget, which was 66% in 2007. Meanwhile the left over; 34% of national budget was distributed among the 33 provincial governments. This imbalance budget distribution between Central Government and Provincial Governments must be reformed. The wasteful massive spending by Central Government needs to be marginalized. Those are some of the specific issues that we have openly and publicly raised up to the surface.
As a newly established political party, we have been engaging and will continue to engage in this discussion to reshape Indonesia to be safer, better and brighter place to live for all Indonesian citizens regardless of their skin color, ethnicity, religion and political association. Our goal as a political party is to confront those depressing issues once and for all to create a brand new Indonesia.
For sure, I reject any notion that we; the Indonesian people are incapable, poor and corrupt nation! This is the task that we are undertaking as a new political party!
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judas says:
for thousand of years palestinians and jews who monotheism live peacefully side by side. only after roman pagan crusade palestine in 11th century, palestine become a killing field for monotheists. the genocide continues until 20th century when pagan country established israel. since then, muslim and jews killing each other and paganism laughing and saying ‘PEACE’ ??????
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hariyangindah says:
Below is the copy of what Ulil wrote about the conflict:
On Fri, 1/9/09, Ulil Abshar-Abdalla wrote:From: Ulil Abshar-Abdalla
Subject: Sejumlah pertanyaan sederhana
To: islamliberal@ yahoogroups. com, “KNU-ASK”
Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 10:30 PMSalam,
Ini pertanyaan sederhana dan mohon jangan diartikan sebagai pembenaran atas
agresi Israel terhadap Gaza. Saya tetaplah anti agresi itu, dan simpati saya
selalu berpihak pada bangsa Palestina…………http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/mayapadaprana@yahoogroups.com/11202670.html
Ulil Abshar Abdalla
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hary says:
Dear Pak Komari, in spite of numerous factual inaccuracies in your post dated the 13th Jan,
I would like to deal with the most annoying aspects of your post; your claim that three historical persecutions against the Jews were a result of their own doing.
Do explain what the Jews did wrong to incur the wrath of Pharoah?
Please explain what the Jews did wrong against the Babylonians?
Please explain why the Jews deserved their fate at the hands of Nazi Germany?
i will be interested to read your reply. I suspect that your answers will reveal more about the mentality of you and your Party.
I will save my other comments on your post shortly.
I am presently bursting with shock and dismay at your world view. Can’t decide whether some of your views deserve reasoned replies!!! -
Ross says:
Well, looking back over this discussion, the most railable info concerns the MUI, whose idea of religious tolerance is well-demonstrated by their ‘symbolic’ sealing of the synagogue in Surabaya. Why pick on a handful of Jews in East Java, who may, for all we know, share the hostility to Zionism that animates many Jews in America and elsewhere?Meanwhile,up in Pasuruan, they want to send MUI volunteers to jihad. Nasty, bigoted old swine, and which of them will lead the charge into the Israeli Defence Force’s ranks? It is disgraceful that the Indonesian Government sponsors this clique of cretins, thus lending their ignorant fanaticism a cloak of spurious legitimacy.
As for US aid to Israel, yes, it brings the West into disrepute among Arabs, and the West deserves rebuke for its role in imposing the foreign Jewish occupation on the people of Palestine, but the West wastes lots of money in aid to undeserving countries.
Britain, hardly at present the richest country in the world, doled out millions to both China and India last year, despite both those countries splurging fortunes on their hoped-for nuclear bomb programs. -
ET says:
How refreshing to ascertain that from what according to marcus this Ulil Abshar-Abdalla wrote there are still Muslims around with the abiltity for instrospection and self-criticism. He only got it wrong on the comparison between the conflict in Iraq and the one in Tibet, the US not wanting to annex Iraq.
And how sad that this same moment of hope is bashed in the next post by an idiot bigot like this ‘judas’ who blames the conflict on the crusades and the catholic barbarians who intend to spread the love of satan, wandering ghosts and homosexuality.
Sometimes I wonder if I’m awake or dreaming. LOL
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ET you ARE dreaming…. read your ‘holly’ book properly. what happen when jesus died ???? zombie wandering around right ????? what happen with loth neighbours ????? how many cases of homosexuality…upps i forget to mentioned phedopile aswell in vatican ???? who massacring moslem, jews and orthodox in palestine in crusades ?????
WAKE UP PLEASE !!!!! -
JUDAS..You make me despair for mankind..
zombies..flying around on horses, living to a gazillion years old..there is not a “holy” book in the world that does not make outrageous claims unless your are a believer..
Pedophile is not area I recommend any catholic or muslim (or any other religion for that matter) make a stand on, a tad too many embarrassing revelations going on.Do your really want to compare horror stores from the middle ages..those battles have been fought, won n lost and lets not pretend there was any good and rightous outcomes, it was a brutal hard time for everyone.
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Adam Sandler in the IDF??? Wow, or is it only a scene from his upcoming movie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI1q3etFX2k
Hmm, seriously, aren’t jews supposed to be good at making propaganda / twisting the fact? But this video is like a joke. Who would believe in such claims, presented in such a pathetic way? Anybody can draw that kind of kiddie-map, and make up their story about it. I mean, c’mon, are they _that_ desperate / running out of propaganda resource?
This, and that slander jew-circle-jerking site jihadwatch.com…, wow, somehow they remind me of a guy named draggie and his pogrom videos. 😀
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@ judas
upps i forget to mentioned phedopile aswell in vatican ????
I have no business in the vatican but I recommend you take a look at your ‘holly’ prophet yourself or try google ‘tighing’ or mufkhaza .
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Anyway, not that I want to drop the subject of “dry humping”, which is very relevant to the situation…. Am I the only person who thinks that this can be solved (and could have been long long ago) in one of the following ways:
Either Egypt incorporates gaza
or
Israel gives up most of the Negev desert, like before the 67 war, gaza connects to West Bank, they form an actual state (Palestine).
Then the two of them leave each other alone (no rockets and no settlers or occupations). They go their own ways in peace (like singapore and malaysia).I figure I am being super naive here, but does anyone else think that if they could just agree on that….then this whole problem would be solved?
and if so, since we have the solution right there, why dont we all start pushing to get that done? -
In case anyone is still following, Israel called an end to military operations a few hours ago
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Burung Koel says:
Dumadisatrio, these are just my thoughts:
It’s been a while since I was last in Gaza or the West Bank, but I think the basic situation regarding negotiations between the State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority will remain a stalemate until these issues are resolved (by negotiation, one would hope):
1. An acceptable two-state solution (including recognition of each other’s right to exist)
2. Return to the pre-1967 boundaries, and removal of all illegal settlements in the West Bank (the Gaza settlements were removed a couple of years ago)
3. Right of return for Palestinian refugees (around 50 per cent of the population of the West Bank and Gaza are classified as refugees)
4. The status of Jerusalem
My guess is that the majority of people on both sides actually want peace, but the real sticking points relate to the details in (2) and (3). It’s now the 21st century, and if, as intelligent human beings, we can’t work out how to live side by side without killing each other, then I truly despair.
Of course, none of this has been helped by the rivalry between Fatah and Hamas on the Palestinian side, or the political machinations within Israel in order to co-opt some of the more loony right wing parties into various coalition governments. Like other peace processes, it may require an honest broker (Egypt?) to sit with the two sides. Although many attempts have been made in the past, and progress has been achieved – and at times then wound back – the whole world has to support some form of negotiated settlement for the benefit of the people of the region, and not use the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians to push their own political or religious agendas.
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It is not that simple. The enormity and complexity of the issue is beyond our imagination.
Let’s not forget many other critical facts in this conflict. During the last term of President Clinton administration, then the Palestinian leader the late Chairman Yasser Arafat and Former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak was so close to seal the peace agreement at Camp David. Both sides were willing to make some concessions. Chairman Arafat was willing to abandon the demand for the right of return in lieu of getting the pre-1967 war territory back as long as all the settlements in GAZA and the West Bank are removed.
But what were the other sticking points that derailed the peace agreement from being sealed at Camp David?
Then Prime Minister Ehud Barak with the full backing of United States Government was eager to make the needed concessions demanded by the Palestinian side in lieu for lasting peace and security of the State of Israel, except…..
1. Israel insisted the right to control the AIR SPACE over the Palestinian territory even when a Palestinian State is established for the continuing safety the State of Israel.
2. Israel insisted the right to control all AIRPORTS for the same reason. Any incoming Aircrafts must be verified, scrutinized and subject to the State of Israel’s approval before landing.
3. Israel insisted the right to control SEA PORTS and SEA PATROL. Any incoming SHIPS to GAZA must be verified by Israel Defense Force and subject to Israel’s approval.
4. Israel insisted THE RIGHT to maintain the CHECK POINTS and BLOCKADES on certain areas for the same reason which is to protect the citizen of Israel from future rocket attacks and suicide bombers until the Palestinian Government and their Police and Arm Forces are established and capable of GUARANTEEING COMPLETE PEACE and SECURITY FOR ISRAEL by fighting terrorism.
The issue is so complex. At that time, the State of Israel seemed eager and willing to give up the territory and dismantle of the entire settlements in Gaza and the West Bank as long as there was a guarantee of complete and lasting peace and security. But knowing the sentiment of the Palestinian people and the entire Arab nations in general toward the Jewish people in Israel, State of Israel does not want to see the Air Space, Airports and Sea Ports are used to pile up guns, weapons and ammunitions to strike Israel when the time is right by these radical organizations. Those were the fear and still are till today.
With so many blockades and checkpoints across the territory, these radical fighters are able to bring in rockets, guns and ammunitions. Imagine if the entire regions are wide open for those radical fighters to bring in and pile up more long range rockets. The security of State of Israel is in complete Jeopardy. Those are the reasons behind the demand by the State of Israel to maintain control for the Air Space, Airports, Sea Ports and Land.
Now what was in it for Chairman Arafat?
For the late Chairman Arafat, accepting such a peace deal is like having a county with no right of sovereignty; against his own mission and PLO mission; definitely political suicidal for him knowing the sentiment at home, especially, within his own radical fighters from internal Fatah Movement, Hamas, Hezbullah and the backing countries across the Arab nations.
I did not surprise, he denied and rejected the proposal. It did not give Chairman Arafat any breathing room to defend his position at home and in the Arab world by accepting such a peace deal. That is critical for any Palestanian leader to survive. This is something that the State of Israel and US Government did not see.
US Government can never be an honest and even handed peace deal broker in this conflict. The world knows that and the American people know that. With this level of distrust and fear from the Israelis side toward the Palestinian people and vise versa, one can only wonder if any lasting peace agreement in the land of Palestine will ever be reached.
Sent by:
Chris Komari
Future Indonesia Independent Party
http://www.futureindonesia.com -
Kinch says:
‘Right of Return’ implies the end of Israel as Israel. Whatever it would be it, would not be itself if it were suddenly filled with Arabs (don’t recall seeing the word ‘Palestinian’ in any literature much before the 60s or 70s when it was conveniently invented to turn the Arabs of Palestine into a Race or Nation that never was). who have 6 or 8 children to the Israeli one or two per couple.
Let’s be real here. The Arabs wish the destruction of Israel. Pure and simple. All sane Israelis know this. Anyone who writes on this topic without putting this fact at the top of the article is pure and simple a liar. It may be that one *believes* that Israel and the Jews should be destroyed (obviously I do not), but I at least have some tiny modicum of respect for a person who says it straight out – that requires some moral courage even if the idea is repugnant.
To talk of ‘right of return’ without acknowledging up front that it implies de facto the end of Israel qua Israel (i.e. permitting it would be committing national suicide) implies either lack of mental acuity or a sneaky, double-talking, knowing, backstabbing, hand-washing, responsibility-avoiding, morally bankrupt approach to diplomacy. i.e. most of what is commonly known as diplomacy in this world.
On the topic of ‘right of return’ – why is it that in no other refugee situation in the entire known world, have the refugees been kept on ice for 50+ years and not re-settled. How many ‘Palestinian’ refugees are there? There are 200M Arabs. It is almost impossible for a Palestinian to become a citizen of any Arab state…. let alone any other ‘brother’ Muslim states. Why is this so? Is it because they don’t want to take a viper into their bosom (see Lebanon, 1970s-80s, Jordan Black September, etc.), or is it because it’s politically more convenient to keep the Palestinians on ice in camps and in Gaza and West Bank so that they can be a weapon against Israel? Obviously a bit (no a lot) of both.
If Indonesia (220M people) cared so much about the plight of Palestinians, perhaps it might like to accept 200,000 of them as refugees – that’s 0.1% of the population of RI – easy enough to absorb and a good demonstration of your sincerity as a nation as opposed to just spouting words in street theatre. (A really smart (and evil) thing would be to dump them on Madura and sit back and watch :).
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Chris.. You left out all the nice little bits on your little hero Arafat.. Even Arab Nations concede his was a thief and crook (which is a serious concession based on the normal way of business in the region).
Arab donor countries pledged to give $1 billion to the Palestinian Authority to ease the economic hardship of the Palestinian people. However, the Arab donors’ past experience with money given to Arafat prompted them to demand in a letter to Arafat, that “Chairman Arafat show complete transparency in the funds” and a detailed report on how it was spent. Arafat and the Palestinian Authority declined to comply, and the Arab donors suspended the transfer of the money “for fear that the money will end up in the wrong pockets.”
Try googling corruption and Arafat..Of course, I don’t the Arab donors had any intention of actually donating the money. Palestine is far to valuable as the resident “victims” for the region.
Chris, your post is biased and bigoted..but hey it matches your website.
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It is not that simple. The enormity and complexity of the issue is beyond our imagination.
Chris – I never said that it was simple. I was merely responding to Dumadisatrio’s request for information about what are the major issues. The sticking points are many and complex, as you say. The examples you provide of lack of Palestinian sovereign control over airspace, borders etc are part and parcel of negotiating a true two state solution (Issue 1). For a true two state solution to work, the Palestinian Authority needs to be an effective, functioning, representative polity, and a great deal of international effort has been undertaken since the Oslo Agreement to build this capacity (mostly by Western countries, it should be said). I have actually been involved in this process, so I speak with some limited knowledge.
Kinch raises a valid point that ‘right of return’ in its pure sense is not going to be acceptable to Israel 60-odd years after partition. However, there is no reason why something akin (or equivalent to) to right of return could not be agreed, and hopefully end the longest refugee crisis in the world. After all, with a negotiated peace, Israel won’t be needing those settlements in the West Bank, will they? 🙂
However, I do not subscribe to Chris’s notion that the situation is ‘beyond our imagination’. Human beings created the problems, and they can resolve them. If you give up because it is ‘too hard’, then all we do is condemn the people (on both sides) to perpetual conflict where children and other innocents will keep on dying.
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Good, I was hoping the conversation would steer back on course.
I think there is one issue that we can look at quick, and that is the one Kris brought up.
Yes, it is true that in the future a Palestinian state, may make another attempt to invade and destroy Israel, and therefore Israel is paranoid about granting full sovereignty and giving up “buffer zones”. However, there is a reason why, I think they should.If Palestine became a state, with full Sovereignty, it would be held on equal footing with Israel. By this I mean, IF a Palestinian state attacks Israel, after they have been given full Sovereignty, they would be the aggressor. This would help end the moral/ethical mud puddle that has been this conflict.
Let’s be frank about Israel’s concerns. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and the rest of the martyr Brigades are simply not going to be able to invade Israel. Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria all tried at the same time, and could not. Israel can defend itself, if it must. What they can’t do, and what will never bring any kind of lasting peace is fighting a never ending insurgency on stateless occupied land.
I support Israel’s right to defend themselves, as they are surrounded by people who..well…want to drive them into the sea. However, I also recognize that Israel will not have any kind of peace, so long as they occupy areas of land that are filled with a separate and oppressed Arab population. Also that, especially settlers can not both build settlements in Arab Palestinian areas and also expect to be Israeli at the same time. So, Either the settlers in the west bank must either return to Israel proper, or the Israeli government must make it very clear that that area will be a Palestinian state, and any Jewish settler there will be a Jewish Palestinian, not an Israeli citizen (and not under the protection of the IDF).
In general, The Arabs must accept Israel as a state, and Palestine as another neighboring state. Israel must accept Palestine as a Sovereign state, AND treat it as such….fairly.
If that is accomplished: A fully Sovereign Palestinian state comes into existence, and a final peace treaty made, there will be no excuse or moral justification for either side to fight the other.
From then on, both sides would be forced to recognize each other under international law, and which everyone broke that peace would and should be held accountable. If a Sovereign Palestinian state built up arms and attempted to invade Israel, THEN Israel would have right and justification to return Total War on them (I am sorry, but making total war on a strip of ungoverned fenced in land is simply not justified), and If the Arabs leave the Jews in peace, yet Israel trespasses on that Sovereignty, then the Arabs would have the full right to make total war on Israel.
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Oigal,
Again, I don’t blame any bule or Chinese for Indonesia’s problems but looking at the world stage and at this particular conflict I believe we can be critical towards the Anglo-Saxon bloc so, no, changing a couple of words won’t always work.