Muslim Rituals – Salaat
Dec 10th, 2008, in News, by Patung
The importance of rituals, public signs reminding people about their obligations to perform salaat, daily Muslim prayers.
Two road side signs asking passers-by whether they have performed salaat (or sholat, salat, shalat), or the five times daily Muslim prayers, saying “Have you prayed (today)?”.
The first sign could simply be seen as a form of advertising for the Islamic foundation/mosque that put it up, while the second appears on a freeway and has the appearance of being an official traffic type sign.
94 Comments on “Muslim Rituals – Salaat”
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Elijah says:
Brother Khafi
Assalamu AlaikumI made my last post before reading your last one.
Good question!
When we read or hear a Hadith, we should try to investigate in which book of Hadith is it originally documented, which is the first step which is a very fascinating task. The second step, that of establishing the credibility, which I have decided to pursue in the long term, is judging whether the parameters and standards used by those who compiled them are enough to make me sure that The Prophet SAW actually said so. At least, I may be able to claim on the day of judgement that I tried my best.
The second important thing: don’t forget to send me your email because I may not be able to continue to make posts. It would be my honour to remain in contact with someone from whom I have learned things. I learned sometime in my boyhood a quote of Hazrat Ali that the person from whom you learn a single word is your teacher.
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 599:
Narrated Abu Said(The Companion of Holy Prophet RA):The Prophet mentioned a man from the people of the past or those who preceded you. The Prophet said a sentence meaning: Allah had given him wealth and children. When his death approached, he said to his sons, “What kind of father have I been to you?” They replied, “You have been a good father.” He told them that he had not presented any good deed before Allah, and if Allah should get hold of him He would punish him.’ “So look!” he added, “When I die, burn me, and when I turn into coal, crush me, and when there comes a windy day, scatter my ashes in the wind.” The Prophet added, “Then by Allah, he took a firm promise from his children to do so, and they did so. (They burnt him after his death) and threw his ashes on a windy day. Then Allah commanded to his ashes. “Be,” and behold! He became a man standing! Allah said, “O My slave! What made you do what you did?” He replied, “For fear of You.” Nothing saved him then but Allah’s Mercy (So Allah forgave him).
Assalamu Alaikum
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Waalaikum Salaam Brother Elijah,
Let us just analyse one of the statements made above:
Al-Dhahabi said: “It has been narrated through two firm channels of transmission that al-Bukhari said: ‘I extracted this book from about 600,000 (sound) hadiths, and I compiled it over sixteen years, and I made it a plea for what lies between myself and Allah.’”
16 years multiplied by 365 days, multiplied by 24 hours, multiplied by 60 minutes equals, eight million four hundred and nine thousand six hundred minutes. divide this by the 600,000 sound hadith, gives us exactly fourteen point zero one six minutes for al-Bukhari to establish and confirm the chain of narrators and the text of the narration or the sanad and matn, before either rejecting or accepting the hadith.
14 minutes is not a particularly long time for this process I am sure you would agree. Even present day scholars can take days or months to complete the process for just a single hadith.
This is of course based on the fact that al-Bukhari was working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and not taking time to eat, drink, sleep, bathe, socialise or even pray. With these normal time consuming items of daily life, al-Bukhari would have had even less than the 14 minutes calculated above to complete the task as described.
You said:
We should not be subjective while judging a Hadith, rather our judgement should be on purely objective academic basis. To put it simple, we should keep emotions aside, look at the facts and then consciously make a decision,
Being purely objective, academic, and looking at the facts, do you still think that al-Bukhari is a reliable source for hadith?
Peace
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Who Authorized Bukhari?
By Layth
Imam Bukhari (died in 256H/870A.D), was well known for his compilation of hadith/Sayings attributed to the prophet (peace be upon him). Al-Bukahri is considered by the majority of Muslims to be the 2nd source for Islam after the holy Book and is used by the majority to ‘explain’ the revelations of the Quran by showing what the prophet and his companions used to do/say.
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Both of them are marketing particular products to a particular demographic. This really is not a story and there is not a story to be had, at least from the government perspective.
A better or more interesting angle rather than trying to rope the State into some covert social engineering program to get people into Mosques and praying would be to explore why it was necessary in the first place for companies to seize on an issue such as this one an make it a theme for an ad campaign.
Is there some kind of recognition within the campaign that there are a lot of “Friday Muslims” in Indonesia? Is it fair to interpret the campaign as providing a not so subtle reminder that people are watching your Shalat-ing habits or lack thereof?
The comments, as always on IM, were a fun read.
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Barry Prima says:
The Hadith have also proved to be a great source of inspiration to those wishing to subdjugate women, the poor, and the weak, and to promote violence against those with different beliefs and ideas.
Assalam Mas Kafi..You are missing the point of my argument….which is ` so has the Quran’….so are you going to reject the Quran now?, because not only has the Quran been used as a source to justify all the above, but also :
A) Historically it was written a long time after Muhammad passed, how can you verify its authority as a historical document? As peter mentioned somewhere else you cant.!Muslims cannot argue with any historical weight that the quran is the exact word of god ,they can only do so on faith !
B)It has lots of contradictions when you read it as a literal one dimensional document, and especially when you try to approach it on a rational level….
So with regard to the Quran itself you might actually ask in your own words:But how sure are you that God actually said those things Brother Elijah?
As i said your methodology in establishing what is valid or not will not only compromise the hadith but the Quran as well.
You make understanding Al Quran seem so complicated, however Allah says:
It is both complicated and simple…If it was so simple there would not be whole books written on one ayat…If it was so simple why is there such diversity in the words used? Why is there lots of seeming contradictions? Please explain to me what the words Alif _Lam _min mean? If it was so simple why are those words still mystery after 1400 years ??
this Book, well expounded in detail for you…
If it was so simple it wouldn’t be so well expounded…again think about the word used for expounded in the Quran..
The Quran is a as simple and as complicated as the Human Being is, the simplicity you ascribe to it is upside down as the simplicity is from higher to the lower,not lower to the higher. It is Simple in that it meets the needs of the simple man, but it is complicated in that it has a complexity that the most complicated man cannot fully plump the depths of as the Quran say :
`To Allah belongs the mystery and none knows it save he’.To suggest that the message of Allah cannot be lived without an in depth understanding of Classical Arabic is surely demeaning the power of Allah, it is after all, He, who places the meaning in our hearts.
I for one have not suggested this….that is in fact the opposite of what i am saying…however, if you want to know the deeper mysteries and evaluate it on a literal and intellectual level ,don’t you think very important??? In your own words:
And if scholarly work is needed it should be placed into a correct interpretation of the text of Al Quran rather than Hadith.
Yet you seem to have used the Quran in a very unscholarly way to reach your point about the evils of Hadith? Bizarre? No?into a correct interpretation of the text of Al Quran.
So how do you actually achieve this or is it even possible to get a correct intpretation?
My point is to get a more intelligent one that makes all the parts of not just the islamic religion,but ther other religions and society in general fit together into a unity.You cannot reach that level of comprehensivness , by resorting to English Translations can you? It is also certainly not by measuring it in relation to changing trends regarding morals, ethics, values, human relationships and politics either which is what you have often done..
Obviously what you bring to the Quran is what it gives back to you. So i am not disputing your personal interpretation of the Quran as your individual choice and its validity for you right now, as you seem sincere enough. My argument is only intended in the spirit of debate .
Your way of interpreting hadith quran is based on modern ideologies and thought patterns that go against the very nature of revealed religions , the way they express themselves through mythology, symbols and semantics and the nature of man himself.Ultimately they lead to the death of religion, or reduce religion to a set of rules/injunctions that take away its soul and its dynamism. You have to unlearn the way you think about things in the modern world before you can see the Qurans deeper dimensions.
If the Muslims try to make Islam fit into post rennaisance ideologies,they will make it as hollow and impotent as christianity has become as a social and spiritual force today. -
Waalaikum Salaam Mas Barry,
You make some good points, but appear to be making something very simple into something very complicated.
Allah has given us a simple set of rules to live our lives, this is the same set of rules that he has given in the past; Believe in Him alone, believe in the day of Judgement and do good deeds!
You said:
You are missing the point of my argument….which is ` so has the Quran’….so are you going to reject the Quran now?, because not only has the Quran been used as a source to justify all the above,
I would rather suggest that Al Quran has been misinterpreted to justify those bad things. When the verses are read understanding the context of the time of the revelation and they are interpreted correctly according to the context, there is actually no problem.
You also said:
but also :
A) Historically it was written a long time after Muhammad passed, how can you verify its authority as a historical document? As peter mentioned somewhere else you cant.!Muslims cannot argue with any historical weight that the quran is the exact word of god ,they can only do so on faith !The Yemen Hoard, a collection of fragments and damaged Quran’s discovered during the restoration of The Grand Mosque in Sana’a, had been scientifically tested, and some of the texts have been confirmed to date from the 7th Century, this is the same century that The Prophet himself lived. This suggest that Al Quran has some authority as a historical document. As regards the issue of historical weight that it is the actual word of God, this will always be a matter of faith, that is after all the crux of the matter, one of faith is it not?
You continued:
B)It has lots of contradictions when you read it as a literal one dimensional document, and especially when you try to approach it on a rational level….
Speaking solely for myself, I have yet to find contradictions that are not resolvable by using historical data and placing the verses into their correct historical context, this together with study of the verses in arabic, with highly regarded language scholars, has clarified for me verses which have been misinterpreted due to the complexities of the language.
You continued:
As i said your methodology in establishing what is valid or not will not only compromise the hadith but the Quran as well.
Well again speaking for myself, I find that it has increased my faith in it being divine Revelation. It is a book which exhorts people to be good and do good, it upholds human rights, it empowers the disenfranchised, it promotes forgiveness and understanding, it promotes the unity of mankind and the oneness of belief in God, it is the one revealed text which actually promotes all Abrahamic believers to disregard their differences.
You said:
It is both complicated and simple…If it was so simple there would not be whole books written on one ayat…If it was so simple why is there such diversity in the words used? Why is there lots of seeming contradictions? Please explain to me what the words Alif _Lam _min mean? If it was so simple why are those words still mystery after 1400 years ??………
………The Quran is a as simple and as complicated as the Human Being is, the simplicity you ascribe to it is upside down as the simplicity is from higher to the lower,not lower to the higher. It is Simple in that it meets the needs of the simple man, but it is complicated in that it has a complexity that the most complicated man cannot fully plump the depths of
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 54:32
Say: if the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid. 18:109
And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing): for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom. 31:27
Allah says it is simple, Allah also says that he does not run out of words, if he wanted to write complete books to explain one ayat, he could have done so! Your choice as to what you believe, I chose to believe Allah!
As to the initials, as you so rightly pointed out:
`To Allah belongs the mystery and none knows it save he’.
I think you would do well to puruse the following verse:
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. 3:7You said:
So how do you actually achieve this or is it even possible to get a correct intpretation?
My point is to get a more intelligent one that makes all the parts of not just the islamic religion,but ther other religions and society in general fit together into a unity.Exactly what I am trying to promote, perhaps you need to read some of my other posts if you haven’t done so already, I don’t think we are so far apart on that score!
You said:
You cannot reach that level of comprehensivness , by resorting to English Translations can you? It is also certainly not by measuring it in relation to changing trends regarding morals, ethics, values, human relationships and politics either which is what you have often done..
Obviously what you bring to the Quran is what it gives back to you. So i am not disputing your personal interpretation of the Quran as your individual choice and its validity for you right now, as you seem sincere enough. My argument is only intended in the spirit of debate .
Your way of interpreting hadith quran is based on modern ideologies and thought patterns that go against the very nature of revealed religions , the way they express themselves through mythology, symbols and semantics and the nature of man himself.Ultimately they lead to the death of religion, or reduce religion to a set of rules/injunctions that take away its soul and its dynamism. You have to unlearn the way you think about things in the modern world before you can see the Qurans deeper dimensions.
If the Muslims try to make Islam fit into post rennaisance ideologies,they will make it as hollow and impotent as christianity has become as a social and spiritual force today.Here you go again, making things complicated, Whilst I am trying to strip things down to their basics. Religions have always divided people, we need to remove religion from the belief in God.
Allah says it best when he says:
“It doesn matter if you are a Jew a Christian or a Sabean, ANY WHO BELIEVE IN GOD, THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT, AND DO GOOD DEEDS HAS NOTHING TO FEAR FROM ALLAH”
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum
Brother Khafi
What I inteneded was only to say this:18:46 Wealth and sons are allurements of the life of this world: But the things that endure, good deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord, as rewards, and best as (the foundation for) hopes.
23:1 TRULY, to a happy state shall attain the believers
23:2 those who humble themselves in their prayer,
23:3 and who turn away from all that is frivolousSahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 529:
Narrated Jarir:We were sitting with the Prophet and he looked at the moon on the night of the full-moon and said, “You people will see your Lord as you see this full moon, and you will have no trouble in seeing Him, so if you can avoid missing Fajr (a prayer before sunrise ) and Asr(a prayer before sunset ) you must do so.”
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Waalaikum Salaam, Bro Elijah
It would appear that despite being shown that Bukhari, given the numbers quoted in your earlier comments would only have had less than 15 minutes to devote to the study of each Hadith, that you continue to quote him.
You are still unconvinced of the fact that Al Quran needs no help and that its verses are complete perfect and fully detailed?
Such then is Allah, your rightful Lord. After the Truth what is there saving error? How then are ye turned away! 10:32
Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone.
To such (deceit) let the hearts of those incline, who have no faith in the hereafter: let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may. 6:112-3Peace
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Asslamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiI have understood very well that we should never accept a Mawdhu Hadith, but rejecting a Sahih hadith can be equally dangerous.
4:115 If anyone contends with the Messenger even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that becoming to men of Faith, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell,- what an evil refuge!
You may say that this Ayah doen’t refer to what I mean, but we must acknowledge that both of us are concerned about afterlife.
I would continue to learn till my last breath.
As He started to learn Quran and Hadith as early as he was ten years old, and he begin to compile the treatise much later in his life. So what sixteen years mean is only the time he took to select those few thousand about which he was absolutely sure,as is evident from my previous post,that is,
Ibrahim ibn Ma’qil said: I heard Muhammad ibn Isma’il al-Bukhari say: “I was with Ishaq ibn Rahuyah when a man said: ‘Why don’t you compile an epitome (mukhtasar) of the prophetic ways?’ This stayed with me, and was the reason why I compiled this book (the Sahih).”
Hence, those sixteen years were meant only for a concise collection we know today as Sahih Bukhari, which even Albani to whom I don’t absolutely agree at least for now, couldn’t criticise on academic grounds.
Ibn Khuzaymah said: “I have never seen under the sun one more learned in the hadiths of the Prophet, upon him be peace, than Muhammad ibn Isma’il al Bukhari”[
A specific date has not been known as to when he had started the writing of Bukhari Shareef, however, we do know that after he had finished he had shown the manuscript to his teachers Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (R.A) for approval who died in 241 A.H, along with Ibnul-Madeeni who died in 234 A.H, and lastly Ibn Maeen who passed away in 233 A.H. It has also been recorded that it took the noble writer a period of 16 years to gather the ahaadeeth and to write Bukhari Shareef which sets the date back to 217 A.H, as the year in which he started the compilation; Imam Bukhari (R.A) being merely 23 years of age.On one occasion, it is said that he was travelling on a boat and had 500 gold coins with him to get him through his journey. While at sea, one of the people on the boat saw his money, and out of greed, he began screaming “I had 500 gold coins and someone has stolen it”. At that moment, Imam Bukhari threw his 500 gold coins in to the ocean. The whole boat was searched and no coins were found. After arriving at their destination, the man asked Imam Bukhari, “what did you do with the money?”, he replied, “I threw it in the ocean”. Out of shock the man asked why. Imam Bukhari replied, “I am compiling a book of the hadith of the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him), I cannot allow anything to damage my reputation and discredit me”.
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Waalaikum Salam Brother Elijah,
You said:
I have understood very well that we should never accept a Mawdhu Hadith, but rejecting a Sahih hadith can be equally dangerous.
4:115 If anyone contends with the Messenger even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that becoming to men of Faith, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell,- what an evil refuge!
If Isnad is to be trusted as a science then there should be no Sahih Hadith that should contradict Al Quran or denegrate The Prophet, however there are many that do, even after years of study the so called Scholars of Islam still uphold them.
The verse you quoted is quite apt I would say, The Messenger conveyed a message, and that message was Al Quran, not Sunnah and Hadith! that is why he is constantly refered to in Al Quran as “The Messenger”. Following him is following his message.
We have a choice, following the revealed word of Allah, or following manmade fabrications and heresay. I know what I put my faith in!
For some examples of Sahih Hadith, which either contradict Al Quran, denigrate The Prophet, or are simply nonsense, read on. These are not my notes or comments but they serve to illustrate the point that even after so called rigorous study the Hadith are still full of corruption.
You said:
Imam Bukhari replied, “I am compiling a book of the hadith of the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him), I cannot allow anything to damage my reputation and discredit me”.
Bukhari should have added “I am more than capable of doing that on my own.”
(1) How many times to wash in Wudu (Ablution), once, twice, three times ….??
Check:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 159:
Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 160:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Zaid:
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 196:
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Zaid:
Once Allah’s Apostle came to us and we brought out water for him in a brass pot. He performed ablution thus: He washed his face thrice, and his forearms to the elbows twice, then passed his wet hands lightly over the head from front to rear and brought them to front again and washed his feet (up to the ankles).
(2) CROSSING OF LEGS
Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, ” The messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over the other while lying down on his back ” Moslem
Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the messenger of God lying down on his back in the mosque while crossing his legs.” Moslem
(3) DRINKING POSITION
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said, “Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank.” Sahih Moslem
Ibn Abbas said, “The messenger of God drank from the water of Zamzam while standing up….” Sahih Moslem.
(4) POSTURE FOR URINATION
“The Prophet urinated in a standing position” Bukhary
“The Prophet never urinated in a standing position.” Hanbel.
(5) END OF THE WORLD IN 100 YEARS
In Bukhary, vol.1
” There will not be on the surface of Earth after one hundred years, one newborn (or created) human being.”
Now after about 1400 years this hadith did not happen. The Prophet Muhammed could not say such a lie, but people who believe in falsehood cannot help but believe in it and put it in a book and call it AUTHENTIC (Sahih).
The corruption of Bukhary is obvious in this hadith. This hadith states that there will be no more NEW human beings 100 years after Muhammed. Despite the fact that this hadith was collected by Bukhary more than 200 hundred years after the death of the Prophet, and is obviously a LIE and a FABRICATION, and the prophet Muhammed could not have said it, Bukhary still included this lie in his SAHIH (Authentic hadiths). Bukhary did not care about what the hadiths say or teach but cared to find good Isnad (Chain of narrators). He failed in his Isnad and in his Sahih, and in his Islam. Bukhary corrupted his own book and Islam by many of these FALSE hadiths that, many deceived Muslims cherish and in doing so commit idol-worship. The Prophet Muhammed will complain to God on the Day of Judgment from him and from all the puppets who followed his footsteps. See 25:30
(6) MAN IN THE IMAGE OF GOD
Sahih Moslem; (Contradicting the Quran)
Abu Hurayra said that the messenger of God said; ” If one of you fight his brother, do not strike him in the face. And do not say may God make you ugly, because God made Adam in His image.”
Another Lie and Fabrication narrated by Abu Hurayra, and accepted by Moslem. This is the same lie you find in the Bible. Quran is clear on How God looks like. Check it your self, see 6:103, 42:11, and the story of Moses in 7:14
(7) ADAM IS 60 CUBITS LENGTH HIGH AND 7 CUBITS LENGTH WIDE
Musnad Ahmad;
Abu Hurayra said, the prophet said; ” God created Adam, 60 cubits high and seven cubits wide.”
” Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His own image with His Length of sixty cubits…” (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 4, p. 1481, #6809; emphasis added)
It is interesting to know that Imam Malik denied the authenticity of this hadith.
(8) MUHAMMED HAS NO MERCY
Sahih Bukhary; and Hanbel.
Bukhary, Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234:
“A group of people from the Oreyneh and Oqayelh tribes came to the prophet to embrace Islam, the prophet advised them to drink the urine of the camels. Later on when they killed the prophet’s shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert to die.”
This is the picture that Hadith books depict Muhammed. Compare this picture with the way God describes him in the Quran.
(9) WOMEN, DOGS AND MONKEYS
Hadiths insult women.
Sahih Bukhary 8/102 and Hanbel 4/86
“If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes infront of a praying person, his prayer is nullified.”
This hadith that was narrated by Abu Hurayra was strongly denied by Aysha, the Prophet’s wife and accused Abu Hurayra of not telling the truth. Despite that this hadiths is still found in the middle of the so called authentic (Sahih) hadiths.
(10)BAD OMEN IN THE WOMAN
Sahih Bukhary 76/53
“Bad omen is in the woman, the horse and the home.”
Another reflection of the prejudice against women that was a character of those who fabricated hadiths. Islam gives full respect to the woman and never used such description that makes the woman like the dog, the monkey or any bad omen.
(11) NO DISTINCTION AMONG THE MESSENGERS, CONTRADICTION
Hadiths books are full of stories that make the Prophet Muhammed better than all the other Prophets and human beings. These hadiths are contradicting other hadiths, that I will mention and contradicting the teachings of the Quran. This is the violation of the Quran where God states that we, as believers, should not make any distinction among His messengers, see 2:285. Those who have been claiming to follow the hadiths books have conveniently ignored the repeated hadiths that call on the believers not to make distinction among the messengers. The following Hadiths show the contradiction in the hadiths books themselves regarding this matter.
Sahih Moslem;
“Ibn Abbas said, the prophet said; “No one should say that I am better than Younus (Jonah) Ibn Matta.”
Here the Prophet Muhammed is asking the people NOT to make him better than Younus.
Sahih Moslem;
“Abu Hurayra said, a Muslim man and a Jew got in an argument,
the Muslim said I swear by the One who Chose Muhammed over the whole world. The Jew said , I swear by the One who chose Moses over the whole world. The Muslim man raised his hand and slapped the Jew on his face. The Jew went to the Prophet Muhammed and complained . The messenger of God said, ” Do not make me better than Moses.” The people will fall unconscious (in the Last Day), and I will be the first to wake up, and I will find Moses already there by the “Aarsh” throne of God. I would not know whether he fell unconscious also and wake up before me, or God excluded him from that.”
Sahih Moslem;
Anas Ibn Malik said; a man came to the messenger of God and said, O you, the best of all people, (Khayer Al-Baryeh) The messenger of God said; “this would be Ibrahim (Abraham) peace be upon him.”
Sahih Moslem
Abu Saeed Al-Khudry said, the messenger of God said, “Do NOT make distinction among the prophets.
Do they take heed ?
(12) MUHAMMED AND THE MAGIC SPELL
Sahih Moslem and Sahih Bukhary had the long hadith that tells of the prophet Muhammed suffering of a magic spell, cast on him by a Jewish man from Bany Zuriq, The prophet (according to this lie), was so affected by the spell that he was not aware of what he says or does. He would think he had intercourse with his wives when he did not. This is one of the biggest insult to the Prophet Muhammed. This lie is repeated in both books of Bukhary and Moslem. This lie is called SAHIH
HADITH. The messenger of God has to know every second what he is doing and what he is saying. This is just another example of the fabrications and lies that they call SAHIH.
(13) INSULT OF GOD
Sahih Bukhary 97/24, 10/129 and comment on verse 68:42
“On the day of Judgment, God will open His leg and show His thigh to the Prophet.”
“God will show His leg to the believers and they will fall prostrate.”
Remember what God said about Himself in the Quran. in 42:11, and 6:103. Also remember what God told Moses when Moses asked God if he can look at Him (God) .
(14) INSULTING MUHAMMED
Sahih Bukhary;
Section of Ghusul (washing after intercourse)
Anas Ibn Malik said, The Prophet Muhammed used to go by all his wives and have intercourse with them within one hour, day or night. and they were eleven wives.We asked ; “How can he do it?” He said, we were talking about the prophet given the sexual power of thirty men.
Another Sahih Lie from the Sahih book of Bukhary. Notice that Bukhary accepted that hadith even when the hadith talks about eleven wives while historically the prophet is known to have only nine wives.
They tried to make Muhammed a superman by giving him the sexual power of thirty men. They invented a lie and put it in a SAHIH book.
Does Muhammed need their lies to be honored ? NO.
Is this what the Quran teaches about our beloved Prophet ? NO.
Is this What the TRUE Muslim care about Muhammed ? NO.
Is it a surprise that Muhammed will complain to God on the Day of Judgment because the Muslims deserted the Quran, for other lies and fabrications, see 25:30 ? NO(15) INSULTING WOMEN AGAIN, & NON-SENSE
Sahih Bukhary and Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; “If it was not for the Jews (Children of Israel),the food would have never deteriorated and the meat would have never turned bad (rot, decay or spoil). & If it was not for EVE, no WOMAN would have ever cheated on her husband.”
Again a blasphemy against God and His prophet. Insulting women and dogs is a characteristic feature of Abu Hurayra’s attitude. The Prophet Muhammed could not have said this NON-SENSE. They still however put it in their Sahih (Authentic) Hadiths Books. This is a direct violation of Quran and known facts. Abu Hurayra did not know then ,that there is living germs that make the food and meat turn bad even before the creation of the Jews. Quran never blamed EVE for the sin that Adam and Eve committed. Blaming all the women in the world for supposedly a sin that Eve committed is against the basic Quranic principles and against the justice of God, the Most Merciful. See 6:164
Should we believe God or believe Abu Hurayra?
(16) WOMEN AND LEADERSHIP
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Bakara said the messenger of God said;
“Any community whose leader is a woman will never succeed”
Another lie in the name of the prophet that has no support from the Quran. This hadith actually proves the corruption of Imam Al-Bukhary himself who accepted this hadith from Abu Bakara, a man known to have lied and punished in public by Omar Ibn Al-Khattab. According to the rules of God in the Quran, Abu Bakara ‘s testimony (hadiths) should have never been accepted. See 24:4
From this lie the Muslim scholars put the women down and denied her the right to be in any leading position . This hadith has no support from history or from the Quran. Check the Quran and the story of Queen of Sheba, who became a Muslim (Submittter) ad led a great nation as a woman.
(17) KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN
Sahih Moslem;
3 Hadiths about attacking the disbelievers.Ibn Abbas said , Al-Saab Ibn Guthama said, we asked the messenger of God about the women and children killed during the attack on the disbelievers, and he said they are from among them (like them) (like their parents).
BLASPHEMY against God, Islam and the prophet. This lie included in the Sahih books are another example of the blasphemy these fabrication carry against the prophet.
It contradicts the well known Muslim history when the prophet specifically told his soldiers not to kill the children and women. No WONDER the messenger of God will complain to God from these Muslims who accepted these SAHIH LIES, see 25:30.
(18) KILL THE DOGS
Bukhary’s Sahih;
“Ibn Omar said the messenger of God ordered us to kill the DOGS.”
Ibn Hanbal’s collection; The messenger of God said;
” You shall kill all black DOGS, because they are devils.”
Another NON-SENSE and insult to the Islam, the prophet and God. These lies and fabrications are listed in the SAHIH books of Hadiths. Do you wonder why God called His book, the BEST HADITH? It does not have any of this non-sense.
GOD wants us to uphold only His Hadiths, the Quran.
“Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?” 7:185(19)SATAN URINATES IN YOUR EARS
Sahih Moslem and Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Hurayra said ,” It was mentioned at the messenger of God that a man slept the whole night (did not do his prayer). He said, this man had Satan urinated in his ears.”
Another SAHIH NON-SENSE.
The messenger of God could not have said this non-sense hadith. Check the BEST HADITH (Quran) for the BEST KNOWLEDGE.
(20)SATAN LAUGHS WHEN YOU YAWN
Sahih Bukhary and Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said, the prophet said; ” Yawning is from Satan. If you are about to yawn, you should try to stop it as much as possible. If you yawn, Satan will laugh.”
(21) SATAN ENTERS THROUGH YOUR MOUTH
Abu Hurayra said; the prophet said; “If any of you yawn,, then try your best to stop yawning because Satan will enter (your mouth).”
Another NON-SENSE by Abu Hurayra and accepted as Sahih by Bukhary and Moslem. Our beloved Prophet would not say such non-sense. He told his true followers not to write but the QURAN.
(22) SATAN SLEEPS IN THE BACK OF YOUR THROAT
Sahih Bukhary and Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said the prophet said;
“When someone wakes up from sleep, he/she should clean his/her nasopharynx (back of the throat), (by taking the water in the mouth, gurgle with it and bringing it through the nose) three times, because Satan spends the night in the nasopharynx (back of the throat).
Another non-sense by Abu Hurayra accepted by the Sahih books scholars that showed many lies attributed to the Prophet.
(23) SATAN FARTS LOUDLY
Sahih Moslem and Bukhary;
Abu Hurayra said, the prophet said;
” When the call for prayer is made, SATAN turns around to leave farting very loud so that he would not hear the Azan (call for prayer), When Azan is finished Satan returns back……”
What this has to do with the religion of WORSHIP GOD ALONE ??
Is this what this PERFECT religion is all about.
(24) SATAN AND THE DONKEY
Sahih Moslem, and Sahih Bukhary:
Abu Hurayra said the prophet said;
“If you hear the crows of the roosters, ask God for some of His provisions, because the roosters saw an angel. And If you hear the hee-haw of the donkey, seek refuge in God from Satan, because the donkey saw the Shytan (Satan).
Another Sahih NON-SENSE. Another insult to the Prophet Muhammed by those who claim to respect him while attributing non-sense to him in the so called Sahih books of Hadith.
There is only ONE hadith acceptable to God and the Prophet Muhammed, the hadith God called the BEST HADITH.
“God has revealed herein the BEST HADITH; a book that is consistent and points out both ways (to heaven and hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God’s message. Such is God’s guidance; he bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by God, nothing can guide them.” 39:23
(25) MUHAMMED LOSES HIS TEMPER, CURSES AND INSULTS
Sahih Moslem;
” Aysha said, two men came to the messenger of God and talked to him about something I did not know what it was about. They made him angry, so he cursed them and insulted them. After they left, I said, O Messenger of God, what kind of good did these two men gain ? He said, Why you asking ? I said; “You cursed them and insulted them”. He said. Do not you know what kind of promise I got from God ? I asked God, that if I ever curse or insult a Muslim, that He would give him a charity and reward.”
Again, we can see lies attributed to both Aysha and the Prophet. The Prophet Muhammed was well known for his compassion towards the people and his mild behavior. He was not known to get angry easy, curse and insult people. He received the great testimony from God for being blessed with a great moral character, see 68:4. This SAHIH LIE like many others contradicts the Quran , other hadiths and common sense. Those who believe in these SAHIH lies will be held responsible for their idol-worship on the day when Muhammed will complain to God from the Muslims for deserting the Quran. See 25:30
(26) WOMEN IN HELL
Omran Ibn Hussein, said the prophet said; “I looked at Heaven and found that the majority of its dwellers are the poor, and looked at Hell and found the majority of its dwellers are the WOMEN.
Here again is another Sahih Lie as this hadith contradicts the Quran that teaches without any doubt that the dwellers of Heaven are the most righteous, not the poorest and not only that but God teaches us that the rich righteous is better than the poor righteous, see 16:75.
The Quran DOES NOT teach in any way that WOMEN are any more of sinners than MEN, or that they are the dwellers of Hell more than men. This prejudice against the women in Islam can be found only in the fabricated book of men, called Sahih Hadiths. None of this NON-SENSE can be found in the greatest book of all the QURAN.
(27) MOSES , NAKED
Sahih Bukhary and Sahih Moslem;
“Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; “The Children of Israel used to take a bath looking at each other while they are completely naked, while Moses used to take his bath by himself alone. They said, why is not Moses taking his bath with us , May be he has large testicles. One day, Moses went to take a bath, he put his clothes on a rock. The rock took his clothes and ran away. Moses ran naked after the rock calling on it to give him his clothes. The Children of Israel looked at the naked Moses and said, By God , he looks all right. Moses took his clothes from the rock and kept beating the rock. ”
Another SAHIH NON-SENSE. What this has to do with our perfect religion, Islam and the prophet Muhammed. It is the kind of shame that you find in the books fabricated by men and accepted by some Muslims as our Islam.
(28) CURSED IS THE WOMAN…….
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Hurayra said; the messenger of God said; ” If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refused. Then he slept the night mad at her, she will be cursed by God and the angels until the morning.”
Another NON-SENSE lie listed in the Hadiths books as SAHIH HADITH. This does not even get close the teachings of God in the Quran where the relationship between the man and his wife is built on mutual love and respect.
30:21 “Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts LOVE and CARE towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who THINK.”
(29) LICK YOUR FINGERS AND YOUR PLATES
Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said; the messenger of God said; “If any of you eat, then you should lick your fingers because you do not know in which one is the blessings (Baraka).
Ibn Abbas said; the messenger of God said; ” If any of you eat,, do not clean your hand until you lick it first. ”
Gaber Ibn Abdullah said; the messenger of God said; ” You should lick the plate and the fingers, because you do not know where is the blessings.”
What this has to do with the teaching of the religion of God Alone, the religion of absoluteness to the one and only God ??!!
(30) SATAN EATS WITH HIS LEFT HAND
Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; ” If any of you eats, you should eat with your right hand, and drink with the right hand, because Satan eats and drinks with his left hand.
NON-SENSE, lie listed as Sahih Hadith. Satan is not of the same physical character like humans. His creation is different than humans according to God in the Quran. Does he eats like humans ? Quran mentions nothing about Satan eating and whether he is right handed or left handed. We are not to follow Satan by leaving the Quran and hold to non-sense man- made religion found in hadiths books. God told us that His book is complete, perfect and fully detailed. If you do not believe God is His assertion then it does not matter if you eat with your right hand all your life, Hell will be your abode.
(31) WHY BABIES CRY ??
Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; ” Every newborn from the descendants of Adam is touched by Satan when born, and that is why he/she starts by crying. The only exception was Jesus and his mother.”
Any look at the medical books will explain to you why the newborns cry when born. Satan has nothing to do with them. It is just the kind of non-sense that can be found in the books fabricated by ignorant men of the 6 th and 7 th centuries.
(32) DAYS OF THE WEEK AND CREATION
Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said “The messenger of God took me by the hand and said, God created the soil on Saturday, the mountains on Sunday, the trees on Monday, the abominations on Tuesday,, the light on Wednesday, the animals on Thursday, and Adam on Friday afternoon.”
Another NON-SENSE, that has no support form the Quran.
(33) GOD ESTABLISHED ON THE THRONE ON THE SEVENTH DAY
Al-Nesaay;
Abu Hurayra said; “God created the Heaven and Earth in six days then firmly established on the throne on the seventh day.”
This seventh day addition by Abu Hurayra is just a story he heard from his Jewish friend who influenced him to put many false hadiths taken from fabrications in the altered Torah.
This false statement cannot be found in the Quran. See 7:54
(34) WIVES EASY WAY TO HEAVEN
At Termethy;
Um Salma said the messenger of God said; “If a woman dies while her husband was pleased with her, she will enter Paradise
God never said in the Quran that obeying your husband is a criterion to enter paradise. Obeying your husband comes from the mutual respect and love that God talked about in the Quran. If going to Heaven means cooking the favorite food of your husband, massaging his feet , wash his clothes and allow him to take a second or third wife, this could be an easy way out of all your religious duties. That is what Satan wants to put in the minds of those who do not want to follow the Quran. That is why following any book but the Quran is Idol-worship. That is why the majority of those who believe in God will go to Hell because they committed idol-worship while believing in God., see 12:106
(35) WOMEN LIFT MOUNTAINS
Musnad Ahmad:
“If a man orders a woman to lift a mountain she should be ready to lift it.”
To enter paradise , a woman should be ready to lift a mountain otherwise her husband would not be happy with her.
Is this the kind of Islam they talk about ??! In true Islam, the submission is only to God.
(36) HUSBAND AS A GOD
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Hurayra said; the messenger of God said;
“A woman should not fast except with her husband’s permission.”
Again you can see the contradiction to the Quran.
Nowhere in the Quran can you find this kind of order. Every soul is responsible for his/her own deeds. A husband will not carry the sins of his wife if she does not fast or do her prayers. The order for fasting in the Quran goes to both men and women. God holds every person responsible for his/her own deed. God told us repeatedly in the Quran that on the day of Judgment people will always blame somebody else for their fall, but this does not help.see 2:166-167
(37) THE SINS OF MUSLIMS ARE GIVEN TO THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS
Burda said that his father said the messenger of God said; ” On the Last Day, some Muslims will come with sins as much as the mountains, but God will forgive them for these sins and put these sins on the Jews and the Christians.”
This SAHIH LIE contradicts the teachings of the Quran as stated in 6:164, where every soul will be responsible only for what it did and also is contradicting 3:199, where God is telling us that some of the Jews and Christians are believers in God and they reverence Him and will receive their recompense from their Lord.
(38) DEAD MUSLIM MEANS A JEW IN HELL
Sahih Moslem;
Burda narrated that his father said the messenger of God said; ” Every time a Muslim man dies, God puts in Hell fire a Jew or a Christian.”
Another lie that has no support in the Quran. Again check 3:199 and 6:164
(39) MUHAMMED WRITES TO THE ROMANS
Sahih Bukhary;
Qatada said; Anas said, ” When the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) wanted to write to the Romans, he was told that they would not read a message unless it is stamped. He (Muhammed) took a stamp made of silver, I can see its bright whiteness in his hand and he engraved in it , “Muhammed the messenger of God”
In this Hadith Muhammed is mentioned writing his name on his own silver stamp. The rest of the hadiths books tried to picture Muhammed as an illiterate man who cannot read and write.
The word the scholars relied on to bestow literacy upon the Prophet was “UMMY”. Unfortunately for these “scholars”, this word clearly means “Gentile” or one who does not follow any scripture (Torah or Gospel ). See 2:78, 3:20, &75 , 62:2; it does not mean ‘illiterate.”
This claim that Muhammed is an illiterate man is a contradiction to the Quran which shows Muhammed as a man who can read and write.
Quran tells us that Muhammed wrote down the Quran- his contemporaries are quoted in the Quran as saying, “These are tales from the past that he wrote down. They are being given to him day and night.” 25:5 You can not “dictate” to an illiterate person. The Prophet’s enemies who accuse him of illiteracy abuse verse 29:48, which relates specifically to previous scriptures.
This hadith is by itself another example of the contradiction found in the hadiths books between hadiths.
“…if it were from other than God, they would have found in it many contradictions.” 4:82
(40) SETTING HOMES AND TREES ON FIRE
Sahih Bukhary;
Bukhary narrates a long story of Gareer saying that the prophet asked him to get rid of a place in Khathaam, so he went with 150 men burn the homes and the trees and left completely destroyed. He was blessed and his men by the prophet.
In another hadith, Nafii said Ibn Omar said the prophet (PBUH) burned the Palm trees of Bany Al Naddeer.
These are just two examples of the lies in the SAHIH HADITHS books. First they contradict the Quran that depicts the prophet Muhammed as a most compassionate and one with a great moral character. Second they contradict other hadiths that clearly said that the prophet specifically told his troops during his wars NOT to burn trees or injure the animals, women or children.
It is no surprise that the messenger will complain to God on the Day of Judgment that the Muslims deserted the Quran for these fabrications and lies.
(41) KILLING THE PRISONER OF WAR See also number 58
Sahih Bukhary;
Anas Ibn Malik said; the messenger of God gave permission to kill a prisoner of war who was holding to the clothes of Kaaba.
Again this hadith contradicts all that is known about the prophet Muhammed of compassion and love for the human beings. It contradicts the Quran and other hadiths.
(42) THIEVES AND ADULTERERS GUARANTEED HEAVEN
Sahih Bukhary;
“Abu Tharr said; the prophet said; Gabriel told me; Any one of your Umma (Community) who dies not committing idol worship will enter Paradise. He asked, even if he stole and committed adultery, he said even if he stole and committed adultery.”
Here is a clear violation of the Quranic rule where everyone will be asked for all the sins he committed. It is an open invitation to break God’s laws. It is an invitation to the thieves and adulterers to be happy and content with their sins.
(43) HOW MANY MUSLIMS TO ENTER PARADISE ??Sahih Bukhary;
Sahel Ibn Saad said; the prophet said; ” There will enter Paradise seventy thousands or seven hundred thousands….”
The numbers mentioned sounded very large for the fabricators not realizing that the Muslims will exceed the billion. Other hadiths claim that all the Muslims will enter Paradise, even if they sinned, and this make the number 70,000 or even 700,000 very small compared to the number of Muslims who will be living on this earth.
(44) SPIT ON YOUR LEFT SIDE
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Qatada said the prophet said, the good dream is from God and the bad dream is from Satan. If one of you had a bad dream , you should spit on your left side and seek refuge in God from Satan.
No Comment !!
(45) DO NOT SPIT INFRONT OF YOU, GOD IS THERE
Sahih Moslem;
“Abdulla Ibn Omar said the messenger of God once saw sputum on the Quibla wall , he cleaned it then came to the people and told them if you are praying do not spit to the front of you, because that is where God is, when you are praying.”
I guess the fabricator of this hadith did not know that the Quran is telling us that God is everywhere , in front of us, to the right and to the left and behind us.
(46) SPIT UNDER YOUR LEFT FOOT
Sahih Moslem;
Abu Saeed AL-Khudry said the prophet once saw a sputum in the Quibla of the Masjid, he cleaned it then told us not to spit on our right side or to the front, but we should spit on the left side or under the left foot.
(47) WHEN YOU SPIT RUB IT WITH YOUR LEFT SHOE
Sahih Moslem;
Abdulla Ibn AL-Shakheer said his father said I prayed with the messenger of God and saw him spit then rub his sputum with his left footwear.
What does this have to do with the religion of worshipping God ALONE. How many times did the Quran emphasize to us what to do when we spit ?!
Do we now know why God is calling His book, the BEST HADITH and the only acceptable hadith ?!
(48) GOD FALLS ASLEEP
Ibn Katheer;
Ibn Katheer in his tafseer book narrates about Abu Hurayra saying that he heard the messenger of God telling a story about Moses questioning whether God sleeps or not, so God sent him an angel to teach him. The story goes to say the angel gave Moses two glass containers and told him to hold them in both hands continuously and never let go. Moses after a long time fell asleep and broke the glass containers. The hadith was meant to indicate that God falls asleep like what happened to Moses. Ibn Katheer was clear to condemn this hadith as a pure lie as God never fall asleep as we were told in the Quran. Ibn Katheer called this hadith one of the Israelite hadiths that infiltrated Islam.
(49) ABU HURAYRA NARRATES FOR THE JEWISH CONVERT
Sahih Moslem;
Moslem narrates in his Sahih book that Yasr Ibn Saad said; ” Reverence God and be careful with hadiths. I swear by God that we saw Kaab (a Jewish convert who was a close friend of Abu Hurayra) sitting with Abu Hurayra and telling him hadiths about the messenger of God. Then Abu Hurayra tells hadiths of Kaab. After they leave I found that some of those who were there make what Kaab said hadiths of Muhammed and what Muhammed said hadiths of Kaab. Reverence God and be careful with hadiths.
This narration in Sahih Moslem provides more proof of the Jewish influence on Islam through Abu Hurayra who narrated many fabricated hadiths that have nothing to do with this great religion of Islam (Submission in English).
(50) REPAIR YOU SANDAL BEFORE YOU WALK
Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said the messenger of God said; “If the one sandal of any of yours break (tear), do not walk in the other one until you repair the first one.”
Who can imagine the messenger of God who has so many important tasks to carry out is keeping himself and his people busy with this kind of NON-SENSE.
Another example of the lies attributed to the Prophet Muhammed.
(51) OBEYING THE RULER LIKE OBEYING GOD
Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra while living in the Royal Palace of the Khalifa Muaa’wya, narrated a hadith unique to him. He said, the messenger of God said; Whoever obeys me, obeys God, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys God. And whoever obeys the Emir (Ruler, or Khalifa), obeys me and whoever disobeys the Emir disobeys me.
The fabrication and lie is clear and obvious, for the sake of living in the Royal Palace.
(52) MUHAMMED DOES NOT KNOW THE FUTURE
Sahih Bukhary;
Aysha said; “Any one who says that Muhammed knows the unseen (or future) is a liar”
This hadith contradicts hundreds of hadiths that allege that Muhammed predicted things to come in the future. These hundreds of hadiths contradict the Quran that teaches in a positive way that Muhammed did not know the future.
In 7:188 God put it very clear and unambiguous
“Say (O Muhammed), “I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me.If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe.”
(53) DIP THE FLY IN YOUR FOOD
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Hurayra said; the messenger of God said; “If a fly fell in your drink, you should immerse it completely in the drink, because in one of the wings is the disease and in the other wing is the healing.”
Another NON-SENSE that has no proof in the Quran or in the common medical knowledge.
(54) GOD GOES DOWN EVERY NIGHT
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Hurayra said the messenger of God said; ” God descends every night to the lower Heaven in the last third of the night, saying ; who will ask me so I would give him ? who would ask for forgiveness so I forgive him ?”
This hadiths is insulting to God, the Messenger of God and the Muslims and has no support from the Quran or common sense. God is teaching us in the Quran that He is with us everywhere. He does not need to move down or up to listen to us. He is closer to us than the Jugular vein in our neck. See 50:16
(55) THE PROPHET NAKED
Sahih Bukhary;
Gaber Ibn Abdullah said the messenger of God was carrying rocks with them to the Kaaba while having his clothes on. His uncle Al Abbas suggested to him to lift his clothes up, so he did and so exposed himself. The messenger of God fell unconscious and was never seen naked again since then.
Another SAHIH LIE. This hadiths has no significance in the religion of perfection, Islam (Submission). This kind of hadiths reflect the disrespect these fabricators had for the prophet of God.
(56) DO NOT BUILD MASJIDS ON TOMBS
THEY DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THEIR OWN CLAIMED HADITHS !!
Sahih Moslem;
>>Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; ” Cursed are the Jews and the Christians, they made out of their prophet’s tombs masajids (places for worship).<<
So, what did the Muslims do with Muhammed’s tomb after his death ?, while claiming to believe in what is written in these hadiths books, they built a masjid on his tomb. Not only did they defy this commandments, if it was his, but added to the ritual of Hajj, that is supposed to be ABSOLUTELY to God ALONE, added to it a visit to Muhammed’s tomb. This kind of visit is neither from God nor from Muhammed himself. He never visited his own tomb after his Hajj.
Is it any wonder that the prophet Muhammed will complain from them on the Day of Judgment, THAT THEY DESERTED THE QURAN ?see 25:30.
(57) RAPING THE CAPTIVE WOMEN WITH PERMISSION
Translation of Sahih Muslim: Book 008, Number 3371:
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-‘azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
Translation of Sahih Muslim: Book 008, Number 3373:
Abu Sa’id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported: We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl with them. We then asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judgment must be born.
These two hadith totally contradict the spirit of Islam and what the Quran teaches about respecting the captives and treating them amicably.
(58) PROPHET MOOSA SLAPS ON THE EYE OF THE ANGEL OF DEATH
Bukhari in his Saheeh, volume 2, page 163 and also volume 1, page 158 and Muslim in his Saheeh, volume 2, page 309 have narrated each in his Saheeh through narrators reaching upto Abu Huraira who said that the Angel of Death came to Prophet Moosa and said: “Respond to the call of your Lord”. On this Prophet Moosa slapped on the eye of the Angel knocking it out. The Angel went back to Allah and said, “You sent me to such a servant of Yours who does not want death and knocked out my eye.”
Abu Huraira says: Allah restored his eye to its position and commanded, “Go to My servant again and tell him. “If you want life, you put your hand on the body of the bull. Then you will live as many number of years as the number of hair covered by your hand.”
According to Imam Ahmed Bin Hanbal’s version in his Musnad, volume 4, page 315, in this tradition Abu Huraira has shown that the Angel of Death used to come to every one openly. When he came to Prophet Moosa he slapped him and knocked his eye out. Historian Ibne Jareer Tabari also relates this tradition in his Tareekh, volume 1, in these words: “The Angel of Death used to visit the people openly till he came to prophet Moosa who slapped and knocked his eye out”. In the end it adds that the Angel of Death started coming to people secretly after Prophet Moosa’s death.” (Abu Huraira, p. 35f)
(59) QURAN SURAS MISSING
While God teaches us and proves to us that He is preserving the Quran, the Hadiths books teaach that some suras or verses have been missing, a flagrant contradiction to the Quran;
Sahih Muslim (2286) … We used to recite a Sura which resembled in length and severity to (Sura) Bara’at. I have however forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: “If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.” And we used to recite a sura which resembled one of the suras of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: “O people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practice” (lxi 2.) and “that it is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection” (xvii. 13). (Sahih Muslim, Vol. II, p. 500f, #2286)
Verse of stoning missing:
Sahih Muslim (4194) ‘Abdullah ibn Abbas reported that ‘Umar ibn Al- Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning. I am afraid that, with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah’s Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or if there is pregnancy.” (Sahih Muslim, Vol. III, p. 912, #4194)
These were just some examples of how Satan controlled the books of hadiths and TRIED TO distort Islam. It is comforting to know that the TRUE believers have their Islam well protected and preserved when they follow the book that is protected by God Almighty, the QURAN. See 15:9 and 41:42
These examples show us why God called on His worshipers to follow no other hadiths but His hadiths, the Quran. See 45:6, 7:185, 77:50 and 31:6
It also shows to us why the messenger of God will complain to God on the Day of Judgment that the Muslims deserted the Quran (not the Hadiths and Sunna).
Peace
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sputjam says:
Those who place the hadith to be as equal to the koran, better use your God given brain.
The hadith promote an ancient pagan arab religion, the rituals we can see during the haj ritual in mecca.
The words in the koran prohibit any form of idol worship. In fact, the words in the koran prohibit any form of religion.
All praise is for God alone.
God is the Sustainer. The almighty.(But not the great (allahu akbar) as many people of the muslim religion depicts). He does not require any sustainence from us in any form of ritual. But He gives sustainence to us.The term allahu akbar does not exist in the koran.
The words in the koran warns man about the imams and religious scholars. Make your own fundamental decision and do not be mislead by religious authority.
Have faith and trust in God alone. He is there near you, if only you can see.
Acts of ritual worship have been repeated many times in the koran to make mankind feel pleasant, including verses which protraying the times of abraham and soloman. during the times of Abraham, it was his parents that peform ritual worship, and Soloman, the queen of sheba.
the koran never did mention abraham nor soloman, nor moses, jesus, mohamed performing any prayer rituals.(same with mohamed).
The koran merely stated that they communicated with God, no specific directions or place given. -
Asslam Elijah,
Beware of the Kafi… Maybe he is a missionary stooge, for I have realised that all the hadith and Quran translations/arguments that he uses are exactly those used by anti Islamic sites such as answering Islam. This uncanny pattern suggest that there is something deeper going on there. In fact just add ir to his name…very suspicious.Well again speaking for myself, I find that it has increased my faith in it being divine Revelation.
Well that’s good for you and I’m happy that you’ve found a way to make Islam fit your sensibilities, as i said whatever works for you is fine. However if you want to upsurge the scholars, please be scholarly if you want to be taken seriously.
All you anti Hadith arguments are copy and paste jobs, that abound exactly as you have presented them elsewhere on the internet, and very often on Christian sites. There is no evidence of any actual independent or scholarly thought in your arguments.
Denouncing Hadith tradition seems to be your main aim here on IM, yet even a cursory look shows that it is obvious you have not even looked at the text sources in English, never mind Arabic…which you evidently don’t speak.
It is obvious that you have absolutely no credentials whatsoever in actually debating this issue.
Whilst I do agree that Hadith are secondary sources, a lot of them are bunk and that they thus have to be critically evaluated in the light of the Quran , rejecting the Hadith tradition whole sale without even taking the efforts to actually understand what they suggest or what they say literally smacks of ignorance..
My main problem is not so much your personal rejection of Hadith but the kind of reasoning you use to reach that conclusion, as it seems to be the pretext to lead to discrediting of the Quran itself. Pretty soon well have to give up the form of Sholat too,as hey look it’s not in the Quran only the corrupted Hadith!I think you would do well to pursue the following verse:
3:7] He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses – which constitute the essence
I think you might do well to find an accurate translation! You had to use Yusuf Alis transalation ,one of the worst ever and one that is devoid of any spiritual insight ,as well as one that is totally lacking in any comprehension of semantics and symbols of the sacred.
That verse has been translated very differently by others and for your benefit here is the translation that suggest something completely different!!!!!!!!!
Step-by-step has He bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, setting forth the truth which confirms whatever there still remains [of earlier revelations]: for it is He who has bestowed from on high the Torah and the Gospel aforetime, as a guidance unto mankind, and it is He who has bestowed [upon man] the standard by which to discern the true from the false…He it is who has bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, containing messages that are clear in and by themselves – and these are the essence of the divine writ – as well as others that are allegorical.(Muhammed Assad)
And here is another:
Those who harbour doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, “We believe in this – all of it comes from our Lord.” Only those who possess intelligence will take heed. Mohammed Habib Shakir, (1866, Cairo–1939, Cairo)Those having understanding” is translated from “oloo al-albabi”. “oloo” means “those”, conoting “those of high”. “Báb” means door, implying “door to knowledge”.
Thus, “those who have attained high place in relation to the door of knowlede”, or just “those having understanding”.The allegorical meaning is thus for us complicated types i suppose, who dare i say actually bother to read the text first, compare it, learn the language in which it is written before cut and pasting from the internet!
Allah says it is simple, Allah also says that he does not run out of words, if he wanted to write complete books to explain one ayat, he could have done so! Your choice as to what you believe, I chose to believe Allah!
He also says its complicated and as i explained with alif lam mim also not just said it ,made it so! Why did he bother even to put that phrase in, it he wanted to keep it simple? If it was so simple why didn’t he just send one book, one prophet and one religion from the beginning?
Furthermore it is usually the modernist Muslims who try to prove all the scientific facts in the Quran that were not just complicated but impossible to comprehend for people of Muhammad’s time, what was the point in writing all that stuff then, esp if as you say the Quran is only a historical document for the people of Arabia at the time?
Anyway, here is some more quotes that suggest that God is very complicated ( a hidden treasure as he said, who wants to be known!):Here is a book which we have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may meditate on its signs, and that men of understanding may receive admonition. (Sad 38:29)
Do they not then deeply think over the Qur`an, or are their hearts locked up? (Muhammad 47:24)”
Ooh wait a minute haven’t i accidently shown a contradiction in the quran on a literal level which you said doesn’t exist?He made it simple for the simpletons and complicated for the complicated. For each camel will find their watering hole within the Quran as itself it says.
Believe in Him alone, believe in the day of Judgement and do good deeds!
What/who is god, what is the day of judgment and what constitutes good/bad,harmful /useful deeds..if this is not complicated, i don’t know what is!
Your choice as to what you believe, I chose to believe Allah!
You choose to believe what accords to your modern sensibilities, rather than understanding reality an Allah for what he/it is .Why do you choose one ayat over another to determine what Allah says? Allah says he is both simple and complicated, closer to you than you jugular vein, yet the seven earths and seven heavens cannot contain him…how do you reconcile the seemingly schizophrenic qualities in Allah? You can’t unless you take a mystical approach and are able to penetrate behind the outward nature of things.
In Sufism we understand Allah is complicated and simple, near, yet far, etc etc…as our world view is one in which the balance and relationship between things is properly established ie united.Exactly what I am trying to promote.(tolerance and openness in religion)
Yes it seems that way, but my whole argument is that your methodology is flawed and leads eventually not only to the loss of meaning/soul in religion but towards its death. You only need to have a basic history of Christianity to know that!
We need to remove religion from the belief in God.
Are you sure that what you want to say? If so it just proves my point!
What is god and how to relate to him that is the domain of religion/ revelation. When you try to destroy religion, or separate religion from god you also destroy man relation to god and to himself. The first step of the modernist and and anti religious is to strip/destroy sacred symbols of religion (language ,rituals)and reduce them to a very literal personal belief systems..Once that is achieved , religion loses its very essence and deteriorates into a sentimentalism that can no longer reach divine intelligence.
Kafi, you might fool the simpletons, but you can’t fool the complicated ones like me .who know history.And some of the texts have been confirmed to date from the 7th Century
…Some began the operative word…so are you just going to reduce the quran to those bits of text have been scientifically or historically proven to be from the 7th century? That would be a logical progression from your methodology of discernment! Besides Radiocarbon, or Carbon-14 dating dating is a very inexact science!
I have yet to find contradictions that are not resolvable by using historical data
You’ve got to be kidding? I’m not going to cut and paste a whole list of basic literal contradictions either as lareidon, andy, shokla etc have made a full time job of it.
I would rather suggest that Al Quran has been misinterpreted to justify those bad things.
I would say that for a lot of Hadith the same misinterpretation applies …including many of the ones below which show a complete zero understanding of not only the symbolic language used in traditional culture,but also a lack of a basic level literal understanding of the terms/words used .
In fact it shows as said earlier that you have not even read them for yourself, except on the internet on sites which share your agenda!Here is my take on some of the HAdith which you attack:
43) HOW MANY MUSLIMS TO ENTER PARADISE ??
” There will enter Paradise seventy thousands or seven hundred thousands….”
The word seventy and its variations are used in Arabic to denote innumerable/unfixed quantity . That is basic Knowledge!
In the quran Allah says there are seventy thousand veils of light and darkness between man and god for example. Seven is used for a lot of concepts that are too abstract or complicated to quantify, ie heavens, number of sects within islam, virgins etc etc…
Once you are aware of some very basic knowledge, there is no longer a problem with this Hadith is there?(50) REPAIR YOU SANDAL BEFORE YOU WALK Sahih Moslem;
Abu Hurayra said the messenger of God said; “If the one sandal of any of yours break (tear), do not walk in the other one until you repair the first one.”
Sounds like good advice to me. The prophet advised this, as an act of dignity, which is very significant in Islam, don’t you agree, so what’s your basis for rejecting this Hadith?” If one of you fight his brother, do not strike him in the face. And do not say may God make you ugly, because God made Adam in His image.”
The striking of a person on the face is a taboo in lots of cultures even in Indonesia, preceding Islam and is even more so in Bali. The face has been considered the most sacred part of the human body in almost all cultures.
If u refute this Hadith on the basis that god is absolutely unlike man ,how do u explain the following in the quran;
God breathed into us of His spirit. [Qur’an 23:115].
And He taught Adam all the names (of everything)
There is no question that man in Islam is viewed as the microcosm of the macrocosm, in fact that is the very basic assertion of the Sahadah! See my commentary of it in the atheist threat section.
That is why man is the only thing in the universe that Allah fashioned from both his hands!(45) DO NOT SPIT IN FRONT OF YOU, GOD IS THERE
Anti Hadith lobby said: I guess the fabricator of this hadith did not know that the Quran is telling us that God is everywhere.
So according to the logic used to attack this hadith, based on the Quran god is also in a pile of ******.
Also Hang on a minute didn’t the anti Hadith brigade say earlier God could not be represented in the image/face of man, if not how could he be everywhere?
Muhammed and the spell.This is one of the biggest insults to the Prophet Muhammed.
Why is that such an insult to Nabi Muhammed (pbuh)? He was only human .The reality of Witchcraft is the reason why Surah Nas and Surah fuluq were revealed.was it not?
How many times to wash in Wudu (Ablution), once, twice, three times ….??
It is certainly possible that he washed them once on some occasions and three times on another…what’s the contradiction? He might have been dirtier or warmer on one occasion, than another.SATAN EATS WITH HIS LEFT HAND
Sahih Moslem; Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; ” If any of you eats, you should eat with your right hand, and drink with the right hand, because Satan eats and drinks with his left hand.
What is wrong with that, again the whole left hand negative association exist in all cultures!
If you perceive Satan as a real independent entity then yeah you would imagine he eats with his left hand(the one he also uses to wipe his ass).
If you believe Satan in the hadith refers to the negative human traits,then again yes it is in appropriate and Satan like to eat with the hand you clean your ass with.
In all religions there is an acknowledgment that there is a perfect way of doing everything, you find that sensibility most strongly in Japanese zen Buddhism.
The Sunnah of the prophet is based on the very same idea, that every act has a cosmic resonance, and that the perfect man does everything perfectly, no matter how small and insignificant it is .
The mind body and spirit are intertwined, and reflect/affect the spiritual condition of man. If you consider this , this hadith again is very good advice from the prophet and no way contradicts Quran, which speaks of the people of the left hand path, those who will book of deeds in the left hand etc.(33) GOD ESTABLISHED ON THE THRONE ON THE SEVENTH DAY
You reject this because its not in the Quran, but the Quran however does say Allah created the Earth in Six days…so how are you going to explain that literally or scientifically? Didn’t he say Kun fu yu kun and it was anyway?
There will not be on the surface of Earth after one hundred years, one newborn (or created) human being.”
This time the anti Hadith boys can’t even be bothered to report the full hadith which goes onto say :
The Prophet said, “Nobody present on the surface of earth tonight would be living after the completion of 100 years from this night”; he meant “When that century (people of that century) would pass away.”NO DISTINCTION AMONG THE MESSENGERS, CONTRADICTION
So i suppose the Quran contradicts itself does it when it says:
Those messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of them Allah spoke (directly); others he raised to degrees (of honor). (Ch 2:253)
“God will show His leg to the believers and they will fall prostrate.”
One of gods feet represents truthfulness and the other the foot of invincibility (from Ibn Arabi) The feet refer to the fixity, immutability of god, whist the hands represent the creative aspect of god. If he can use his hands in the Quran as metaphor, why not a foot or both feet?
The use of the term foot (qadam) refers to god putting his foot down metaphorically. IE He will put his foot down to show whose boss and then people will fall down in prostration as they can no longer deny his power?
If you understand what people mean by putting their foot down its quite simple , not absurd at all is it? Especially when you consider the hyperbolic masculinity of the Language of a Quran, this Hadith fits in perfectly well.(16) WOMEN AND LEADERSHIP
Sahih Bukhary;
Abu Bakara said the messenger of God said;
“Any community whose leader is a woman will never succeed”
First of all Sheba is not named in the Quran, second the woman considered to be Sheba submits to a man (Solomon). When she was the ruler, the people were in error,it took a man to put her in her place and restore the human order in conformity to the divine Law. According to the Quran she Became Solomon’s wife and he ruled over the kingdom and restored Monotheism
The Quran version of events, only serves to the hadith, not reject it.
I absolutely agree with this Hadith, authentic or not as it corresponds to the wisdom of all the religions!
during the attack on the disbelievers, and he said they are from among them (like them) (like their parents).
I’m not sure what or which Hadith/s is being referred to here ,nor i suspect do you…but if you take the statement as it is What’s wrong with it ?
It a common sense observation, the killing has already taken place, Muhammad is trying to rationalize why god allowed it to happen, even though it seems immoral and against the principles of jihad. Its parallel to the story and Musa and Khidr in the Quran when Khidr (or what is generally considered to be Khidr) kills a boy who for no apparent reason and then it is revealed to Moses that he would have grown up to be rebellious and his parents and bought shame to them.“When someone wakes up from sleep, he/she should clean his/her nasopharynx (back of the throat), (by taking the water in the mouth, gurgle with it and bringing it through the nose) three times, because Satan spends the night in the nasopharynx (back of the throat).
It is nonsence to those who don’t know sacred geometry of the human body. Here is some yogic wisdom to illuminate this verse:
Between bindu and vishuddhi chakras there is another smaller psychic center known as lalana chakra or talumula, and it is closely related to vishuddhi chakra. When the nectar trickles down from bindu it is stored in lalana. This center is like a glandular reservoir, situated in the back of the nasopharynx, the inner cavity above and beyond the soft palate into which the nasal passages open.Although this fluid is known as ambrosia, it actually has a dual nature which can act as poison as well as nectar. As long as vishuddhi chakra remains inactive, this fluid runs downward unimpeded, to be consumed in the fire of manipura, resulting in the processes of decay, degeneration and finally death in the body’s tissues.This statement does not make sense if you believe in some guy with a fork in his hand who is actually a physical entity that is roaming the earth. If you have a more sophisticated understanding of Satan, and that the satanic forces are within the self and their association with different parts of the anatomy, you might reach a more intelligent understanding.
Here i have tried with my limited knowledge and interest in them, explained few hadith.If you are indeed an expert on them as you allude to being, im sure you’ll be able to correct me and not contradict the Quran itself at the same time.
However i would be surprised as it is obvious that you have not even questioned why these Hadiths are suspicious, just copied pasted and swallowed whole.
Yes some of these Hadiths Appear dodgy, but i m not going to go through all of them, as i have no interest in being a Hadith Scholar.
However if i want to attack a whole tradition and science would make sure i would learn the language in which it is spoken, not just literally, but symbolically, culturally and spiritually.
It is obvious Kafi, that you have done nothing but taken bits and pieces from other people off the internet (with no attempt to even verify how valid it is ) and tried to pass yourself off as some authority on something you evidently know nothing about!
Shame on you! -
Mr Barry Prima,
I had really expected more from you, resorting to insults already???
In fact just add ir to his name…very suspicious.
You also seem to like jumping to insulting conclusions in an attempt to discredit?
Denouncing Hadith tradition seems to be your main aim here on IM, yet even a cursory look shows that it is obvious you have not even looked at the text sources in English, never mind Arabic…which you evidently don’t speak.
After accusing me of simply cutting and pasting, you commented:
Those having understanding” is translated from “oloo al-albabi”. “oloo” means “those”, conoting “those of high”. “Báb” means door, implying “door to knowledge”.
Thus, “those who have attained high place in relation to the door of knowlede”, or just “those having understanding”.But strangely enough this itself a cut and paste from Wikipedia, including the spelling mistake in the world ‘KNOWLEDGE’.
But of course you then gave a clue as to why you are such a vehement defender of traditions when you said:
In Sufism we understand Allah is complicated and simple, near, yet far, etc etc…as our world view is one in which the balance and relationship between things is properly established ie united.
As a Sufi you presumably follow a no questioning dedication to your Shaikh do you not?
I quote from al-Ghazali
the murid [disciple] must of necessity have recourse to a shaikh [master] to guide him aright. For the way of faith is obscure, but the Devil’s ways are many and patent, and he who has no shaikh to guide him will be led by the Devil into his ways. Wherefore the murid must cling to his shaikh as a blind man on the edge of a river clings to his leader, confiding himself to him entirely, opposing him in no matter whatsoever, and binding himself to follow him absolutely. Let him know that the advantage he gains from the error of his shaikh, if he should err, is greater than the advantage of his own rightness, if he should be right.38
And you had the nerve to say to me:
It is obvious Kafi, that you have done nothing but taken bits and pieces from other people off the internet (with no attempt to even verify how valid it is )
When you own beliefs tell you to blindly follow, how hypocritical of you Mr Barry Prima!
Just ask your Shaikh to remind you of this text from Jalal al-Din Rumi:
“Though the many ways are various, the goal is one. Do you not see there are many roads to the Kaaba?”
You have your road and I have mine, remind you of any verse from Al Quran Mr Barry Prima?
Or this from Ibn ‘Arabi:
My heart has become capable of every form: it is a pasture for gazelles and a convent for Christians, and a temple for idols and the pilgrims Ka‘ba and the tables of the Torah, and the book of the Koran. I follow the religion of Love: whatever way Love’s camels take, that is my religion and faith..
What has happened to your Love Mr Barry Prima?
Peace
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@ Mr. Mohammed Khafi: spot on!
I admire your calmness in responding to every attack towards your words or yourself.
Peace and wassalam -
Another quote for you Mr Barry Prima:
Hakim Jami, a great scholar and Naqshbandi Sufi has said: ‘Do not be proud of your intellect and learning, for in the Sufi way your intellect hampers your progress and learning is stupidity.’
Mr Barry Prima, you said:
It is nonsence to those who don’t know sacred geometry of the human body. Here is some yogic wisdom to illuminate this verse:
Between bindu and vishuddhi chakras there is another smaller psychic center known as lalana chakra or talumula, and it is closely related to vishuddhi chakra. When the nectar trickles down from bindu it is stored in lalana. This center is like a glandular reservoir, situated in the back of the nasopharynx, the inner cavity above and beyond the soft palate into which the nasal passages open.Although this fluid is known as ambrosia, it actually has a dual nature which can act as poison as well as nectar. As long as vishuddhi chakra remains inactive, this fluid runs downward unimpeded, to be consumed in the fire of manipura, resulting in the processes of decay, degeneration and finally death in the body’s tissues.Now you are using Hindu teachings to justify Hadith, this gets stranger and stranger. Here we have somebody who suggested earlier that I was attempting to discredit Al Quran, whilst himself following, Hadith, Sunnah, Sufi and now Hindu teachings???
Whilst I respect your right to beleive as you do, it seems to me that you are not even following the edicts of your Sufi teachers, you are surrounding yourself with other peoples teachings. My belief is that one has to throw off these teachings if one wishes to find God, The simple path of Al Quran, and what we can confirm of the other previous Divine Revelations is sufficient for me, it is obviously insufficient for you.
I will give you another quote from one of your Sufi Teachers:
Hajrat Abu Yazid al-Bistami (Bayazid) said that progress could not be made by standing with the pious or with the warriors in the cause or with those who pray or fast excessively. The only way to the Almighty is to ‘leave yourself and come’
Peace
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Debby says:
Mr. Mohammed Khafi,
I’m just curious, since you believe only in Quran, why do you always refer Allah to Him/He? Is it the way in your Quran? Coz I might fancy that God maybe or can be woman, too.I have the feeling, I tend to agree with Barry rather than you. Suspicious of you? Indeed.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ All
This is a classic. Couldn’t stop laughing.
Mas Khafi wrote,
After accusing me of simply cutting and pasting, you commented:
Those having understanding” is translated from “oloo al-albabi”. “oloo” means “those”, conoting “those of high”. “Báb” means door, implying “door to knowledge”.
Thus, “those who have attained high place in relation to the door of knowlede”, or just “those having understanding”.But strangely enough this itself a cut and paste from Wikipedia, including the spelling mistake in the world ‘KNOWLEDGE’.
@ Mas Khafi
You are talking to an ex punk rocker (his own admission) who:
1) claimed that Allah swt is like a Bad Boy like he once used to be. How blasphemous.
2) claimed that Javanese has the correct interpretation of Islam and he is learning from Javanese wisemen. I believe he was misled by our christian Papuan brothers because he seriously need a crash course on Javanese sopan.
3) claimed that Javanese ladies are turned on by bule naughty boy turn godly image. Our Javanese muslima sisters shunned him and he got a non believer spouse.
4) This arrogant creep was soaring around IM like a stoned winged buraq but got his wings tangled on barb wire put up by Javanese sister FMF. He insisted on a punching match with FMF. His punk rocker instinct took over.
Mas Khafi, this man is hiding behind a pen name. Your call if you want to continue with him.
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@ Mas Khafi
A Javanese wisdom to remember:
“one must always be careful in speaking to lower people because they are very easily insulted and once insulted they become uncontrollably angry.”
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Lairedion says:
Haha, what a nut,
In this thread he said earlier:
You’ve got to be kidding? I’m not going to cut and paste a whole list of basic literal contradictions either as lareidon, andy, shokla etc have made a full time job of it.
Typical bule convert arrogant attitude. Bragging around so loud it’s only a matter of time one is caught trapped in his own lies and fallacies. It happened before to Dawud Farquhar, another bule convert turned Jihadi maniac.
BP, I checked Mas Khafi’s Wikipedia link. The error is still there. Why don’t you correct it so you won’t look like a complete fool should you decide to cut ‘n paste it again for another blog or forum you want to infect? 🙂
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LAreidon:
you mean correct the misspelling of Knowledge…..to appease the english teachers?
The rest of the transalation is correct….I don’t deny the usefulness of cut and paste..at least when I have taken the time to verify the accuracy of what i have cut and pasted unlike Kafi..Bragging around so loud it’s only a matter of time one is caught trapped in his own lies and fallacies
You have shown that you can’t debate with me on the level of ideas so just call it lies and fallacies and you feel a whole lot better don’t you…how feeble.
‘Do not be proud of your intellect and learning, for in the Sufi way your intellect hampers your progress and learning is stupidity.’
Very fitting advise for you Kafhi (yes I’ve spelt even your name wrong on many occasions, get lareidon to slap my hand with his ruler for me) ……The hadith literature has been studied and inspired muslims for 1400 years…people spent years learning the hadith, critically analysing them and trying to establish their meanings.
Now you come along after reading poorly transalated hadith propogated by christian zealots on the internet and claim that all these scholars were not just wrong but corrupt and evil!Who is the arrogant one?
I am not sufficiently learned in the of Hadith to question these scholars, and KAfi you evidently aren’t either…
The contradictions in the Hadith compiled by Bkhari is a testament to their sincerity and democracy and fear of Allah, not the reverse! He just reported what was transmitted, and it is left to the Muslims to decide the validity of hadith and take inspiration from them as they saw fit, for better or worse…very admirable don’t you think?
Your arguments against the hadith, are not even based on common sense observation, never mind anything deeper or any religious sensibility.I had really expected more from you, resorting to insults already???
This is not an personal insult,it is a mere observation..a personal insult would be related to your character..
You also seem to like jumping to insulting conclusions in an attempt to discredit?
Your lack of substance in arguing against Hadith are what is discrediting what you say,not any insults from me.
As a Sufi you presumably follow a no questioning dedication to your Shaikh do you not?
Actually no,a big leap/assumption which shows you know little about it apart from maybe the internet.. …Every Sheikh is different..i have met with many Sheikhs, some even rejected me told me that i would not find what i wanted from them…none ask me to make a pleadge to them..The one Sheikh i do have the closest relationship with does not take Bhayat form his murids and he allows us to choose our own course, he just advises..However i feel certain enough about his wisdom now (after ignoring it in the past)..to suspend my own judgment instead of his on alot of issues(not all)
As for that Quote from Al Ghazzali you have to balance it with his stand on other things..and of course in context…When you own beliefs tell you to blindly follow.
Sufism is not a belief…it’s a way of life…every student /teacher has their own dynamic and structures understanding….if anything Sufism is completely against blind following..it is about knowing Allah..not just thinking about him as something out there or as a belief!
Or this from Ibn ‘Arabi:
Well Ibn Arabi..was hugely influenced by Hadith literature..in fact he is of those who could make books out of one ayat.. Why would you quote someone who relies on Hadith?
I guess he was deluded was he? Your google searches and cut and paste make you more knowledgeable than him?Now you are using Hindu teachings to justify Hadith, this gets stranger and stranger
And why not…there is no consistency in your method,you argue for the validity of all prophets and revelations but then you think its wrong to use non Islamic wisdom??
Hindu and especially Taoist have been very important for me in discovering the wisdom behind a lot of Islamic practises and Sunnah…in the same way that alot of people think modern science or signs in nature prove god….it seems to me that you are not even following the edicts of your Sufi teachers, you are surrounding yourself with other peoples teachings.
You would only know that if you were my teacher..their is not one brand of Sufism..there are many..
The only way to the Almighty is to ‘leave yourself and come’
What has that got to do with your argument against Hadith and if that is sound advise ,leave the debate about the Hadith to those who have spent their lives studying it or at least spent some time in learning and reading it for yourself!
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@Debby
He/Him is the correct English non gender pronoun or epicene pronoun, in this usage it is simply considered to be the markless pronoun, neither implying nor confering gender. To fancy that Allah could be a woman would be just as incorrect as to fancy that Allah is a man.
@Mr Barry
Started with the statement:
I don’t deny the usefulness of cut and paste..at least when I have taken the time to verify the accuracy of what i have cut and pasted unlike Kafi..
You obviously didn’t verify the accuracy of that cut and paste did you? And just for your information. The verse you quoted:
Those who harbour doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, “We believe in this – all of it comes from our Lord.” Only those who possess intelligence will take heed. Mohammed Habib Shakir, (1866, Cairo–1939, Cairo)
Fourteen other translations I have checked do not agree with this translation, even the transliterated Arabic and the literal translations do not agree. But I guess of course you will choose to accept this translation because it agrees with what you have been told to believe. Reading the verse clearly indicates that it is gramatically incorrect. and will only read correctly if the fullstop is placed after the word God rather than after the word knowledge.
He went on to say:
:……The hadith literature has been studied and inspired muslims for 1400 years…people spent years learning the hadith, critically analysing them and trying to establish their meanings.
And despite all these years of study learning, and critical analysis there are still hadith which contradict Al Quran and denigrate the prophet? Doesn’t that tell you something?
Mr Barry also said:
Now you come along after reading poorly transalated hadith propogated by christian zealots on the internet
Why would I choose to quote from Chritian zealots, there are plenty of Hadith sources available for me ranging from my own personal library to online sources from academic institutes. Once again you will have to try harder to discredit me than that.
Mr Barry continued:
I am not sufficiently learned in the of Hadith to question these scholars, and KAfi you evidently aren’t either…
It is not necessary to be particularly learned to realise that any hadith which contradicts Al Quran, or denigrates the character of The Prophet should not exist, so I will continue to question these so called scholars who after 1400 years have apparently not been learned enough to do it themselves.
Mr Barry went on:
The contradictions in the Hadith compiled by Bkhari is a testament to their sincerity and democracy and fear of Allah, not the reverse! He just reported what was transmitted, and it is left to the Muslims to decide the validity of hadith and take inspiration from them as they saw fit, for better or worse…very admirable don’t you think?
As I mentioned in a comment above, Bukhari, if he really studied the number of hadith he is reported to have studied, would only have had 14 minutes for each one, and that is if he didn’t stop to eat, sleep, or pray. Perhaps that was the reason that he let so many bad hadith through, or perhaps the number of hadith he was supposed to have studied was just as much a fabrication as the hadith themselves.
He also said after insinuating that I was a Kafir:
This is not an personal insult,it is a mere observation..a personal insult would be related to your character..
And insinuating that I am a kafir is not related to my character?
He stated:
Actually no,a big leap/assumption which shows you know little about it apart from maybe the internet..
And:
Sufism is not a belief…it’s a way of life…every student /teacher has their own dynamic and structures understanding….if anything Sufism is completely against blind following..it is about knowing Allah..not just thinking about him as something out there or as a belief!
Well you are quite correct on that point, I don’t know much at all about Sufism, it is not something I am particularly interested in. Allah has made his way simple to understand, I don’t need to fill my head with Sufi teachings to feel closer to Allah, I simply need to read Al Quran to do that.
According to Al Quran, Islam is the only way of life. Sufism appears to be just a distraction to what Allah has stated quite simply and clearly. To know Allah we simply need to read what He has given us in Al Quran.
Further he said:
Well Ibn Arabi..was hugely influenced by Hadith literature..in fact he is of those who could make books out of one ayat.. Why would you quote someone who relies on Hadith?
I was quoting him to illustrate the point that you do not even follow the the teachings of those whose work you hold in such high esteem, I will ask you once again the question you avoided……… What has happened to your Love Mr Barry Prima?
I said earlier:
Now you are using Hindu teachings to justify Hadith, this gets stranger and strangerMr Barry replied:
And why not…there is no consistency in your method,you argue for the validity of all prophets and revelations but then you think its wrong to use non Islamic wisdom??
Hindu and especially Taoist have been very important for me in discovering the wisdom behind a lot of Islamic practises and Sunnah…in the same way that alot of people think modern science or signs in nature prove god….I just don’t see the connection between the Hadith verse on Satan sleeping in the back of your throat, and the suggested energy flow or flow of nectar between the chakras. You explanation did nothing to make it clearer, it seems a bit like clutching at straws to make use of Hindu Yogic teachings to justify Hadith nonsense, are you really that desperate to justify the use of hadith, when Allah has clearly stated that you need nothing other than Al Quran?
In an earlier comment Mr Barry said:
In the quran Allah says there are seventy thousand veils of light and darkness between man and god for example.
Could you quote me the Surah where He makes that statement?
Peace
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@all,
Our bule convert becomes more and more laughable. Check some of his comments in the Good and Evil in Islam thread:
Patung thats why you take great attempts to show all the negative aspects of islam here and take great pains to show the defenders of Islam as one dimensional, humourless, ranters…(your selective censoring of my post, indicate that you of course are doing it with others) yet.
Patung and you cronies who run sites like this with their hidden agendas:
BP is sobbing his heart out and has concluded IM is part of a big conspiracy against Islam. LOL.
Thanks BP for adding another classic….
P.S. Apart from quoting you I didn’t cut ‘n paste anything…
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Barry Prima says:
BP is sobbing his heart out and has concluded IM is part of a big conspiracy against Islam. LOL.
Everyone has an agenda, conscious or otherwise, read between the lines…it kind obvious there is a certain pattern to this Site!
I posted that in spite of people like you, so you can mock as much as you like…your laughter does not invalidate or validate me.
Sobbing my heart out :
You wish actually its sad you have to imagine me feeling bad about this to make you feel better like AA who has to continue imagining me in a certain way to make himself feel safe.
Apart from quoting you I didn’t cut ‘n paste anything…
Your idiocy is all you own Lareidon..so you don’t need to cut and paste.
You have to take me to task for c+p knowledge wrong….that shows how much of an argument you have to offer.He/Him is the correct English non gender pronoun or epicene pronoun.
Sorry I don’t get this sentence at all. Are you trying to hide the fact you are completely not answering the question, but using grammatical terms which nobody will understand?
How can HE be a non gender pronoun???
The Quran never ever uses a feminine gender to describe Allah…is is either as :
Huwa or Hu (he ,him)
Anta, Ka (thou thine,thee)
Ana, Iyaya, ya (I, My or Mine )
Nahnu, Na We, Us and Our.
So is god contradicting himself when saying we (plural) as opposed to he (singular)?
In this usage it is simply considered to be the markless pronoun, neither implying nor confering gender.
How can that be,if he clearly uses masculine terms to refer to himself, don’t apologize for god! Considered to be gender neutral by whom? Those who want to ignore what is right in front of them?
You espouse a literal approach to the Quran, but are now denying it, when it is undeniable??
In any case your literal, one dimensional approach to the Quran and Hadith can never explain their apparent absurdities to the modern mind. So you approach is first to reject the Hadith and after that it will be the Quran itself, because it will never conform to apologetic sensibilities/Feminism (as understood ) or even the kind of precision and soullessness /uniformity you wish to apply to itHere is my explanation of the Use of He in the Quran:
The Quran is a revelation; a revelation is a personification of Allah in a particular form, in this case a book. A manifestation of god,cannot be god in his totality,for the tao which can be taoed is not the Tao. Anything that is a sign of God must take a form , and that form is governed by laws which god himself formulated, for only god the uncreated is outside of laws of inter-relationship.
The principle law of creation is yin/yang or as Allah said he created everything in pairs.
Books are written with words. Duality and thus masculine/femine representations are inherent in speech and rational thought. Allahs revelation thus follows the laws of polarity that are inherent in the nature of the spoken word.SO why is god a he not a she in the quran?
Well what is the purpose of the Quran? The purpose is to guide. Thus Allah is manifesting his role as a law giver, a commander of men s souls; this is his masculine or yang function. That is why he is a he in Quran, as the function he is serving is a masculine one!
The feminine personification or articulation of gods Atrribute is in the halus/passive realm,the realm of nature for example ,that is why nature is referred to as a virgin/she etc.
Kafis reading of the Quran and understanding of religion is purely Yang,,ie he reduces it to what is obvious, what is literal..my understanding is balanced with an appreciation of the yin, the mystery ,that which is unspoken ,that which is veiled from the eyes of those who are deficient in imagination and other spiritual faculties.Fourteen other translations I have checked do not agree with this translation
You really checked fourteen other ones…haha !
And are these fourteen other translations the same? no..Thats is my point!
Of course i verified the Translation, based on my understanding of the nature of Revelation itself! The question is how valid ie each translation in the face of enquiry, that is holistic :ie literally, spiritually, metaphysically, and historically!will only read correctly if the fullstop is placed after the word God rather than after the word knowledge.
Missing the most obvious fact that the original Quran does not have any dots or diacritical markings….hence there is never going to be a fixed meaning, despite your claims that the Quran is clear and fixed. The Quran is not a set of rules of right and wrong, it is a breathing living, organic, multi levelled expression of reality/god!
The Quran like the Torah if seen in its original form overtly demanded the reader’s conscious participation. The text was never complete in itself; it had to be actively engaged in by the reader who by this engagement gave rise to a particular reading!And despite all these years of study learning, and critical analysis there are still hadith which contradict Al Quran and denigrate the prophet? Doesn’t that tell you something?
They tell me that you shouldnt accept them all blindly,and that a veyr high level od skill is required to establish what they mean.It also does not tell me that i have to reject all of them….
Denigrate the prophet in the sense that they show him as unfeasible for the modern mind and its sentimentalism?
No one even the hadith compilers themselves would deny that a lot of Hadith are not accurate or even false completely, the question is establishing which ones are and which ones aren’t and to do that you have to have to have a holistic approach, one that is based on an understanding of religion/revelation.Why would I choose to quote from Chritian zealots
Exactly ..why indeed…why is there such a consistency with the Hadith (not only in content but exact language) you quoted and those on Missionary sites.???
So I will continue to question these so called scholars who after 1400 years have apparently not been learned enough to do it themselves.
Fair dinkum.. I am not at all disputing the need to be critical with Hadith literature..All the great scholars are very careful about which hadith they use and how they give exegesis about them.
i am calling into question, your methodology and your academic/spiritual capacity to take up this task!
The very very basic flaws in the reasoning used to discredit the hadith you pasted (which by the way you have not responded to at all, even though that is the crux of our disagreement) shows that you don’t have the right tools to take upon this task.
Would you give credibility to a critique of English literature to one who couldn’t read English?
That at the end of the day is the crux of the matter.
Also what i want to know who are the scholars, who created your anti Hadith line of arguments… and what are their credentials…….Perhaps that was the reason that he let so many bad hadith through
Yes he was a compiler ,not an interpreter, that is what he felt was his main function. The fact that he and other compilers were democratic/fearful enough of god not to just select that which they agreed, but many they disagreed with is a testimony to their impartiality and taqwa! Due to this impartiality later generations have ample scope and diversity and sources from which to guide Islamic society. The Hadith and Quran are about balancing opposing different forces in the cosmos and human nature, that is why they are able to say many seemingly opposed things. It is only when the nature of things is understood and god himself becomes a reality in the heart that these opposing things are fit together.
Again you seem to think that gods role is as some dictator, whose relation to one is solely that of giving us a set of rules.The whole idea of Islam is not to present a perfect political/social system (although a lot of Muslims seem to have reached that conclusion) as if Allah were to reveal a perfect system and make it obvious, it would be rather totalitarian of him and rob us of the prize of free will. There is thus alot of scope to determine actually what that system should be, baring in mind certain principles.
The finalising formula in this acting of balance is that `his mercy precedes his wrath’. When wrath overrides mercy (as with fundamentalism) you have an inbalance.Gods is participating in us as we are participating in him!
And insinuating that I am a kafir is not related to my character?
The insinuation is in your mind…i did not insinuate that you are Kaaafi,as that would insinuate that you knew what my definition of Kaafir is. I just outlined a pattern that i have seen in your IM persona…
I would be very reluctant to all anyone a kaafir..in fact in my sufic understanding it is very difficult to be a kaafir,in a manner of speaking impossible!
I was playing with words..by mentioning the IR that could go at the end of your name. Also the fact that your first name is given as muhammed also makes it more suspicious..ie Muhammed is a …!
That and your avatar (any observer will note that is very evangelical looking…creepy!)
Most importantly, your attack against Hadith scholar and the Hadith themselves, is typical of modern pseudo scholars who have no living link to traditional Arab civilization, speak no Arabic, are completely under the influence of modern ideologies of the post Renaissance and are not in any way capable of interpreting the wisdom of the traditional world.
Wherever you are Muslim or not is not really any concern to me. My concern is your anti Hadith propaganda and most of all the inevitable consequences that is leads to, which i have highlighted already!you do not even follow the the teachings of those whose work you hold in such high esteem
That’s like saying you are a Muslim but you are not even following Bukhari..Pretty ridiculous! One isolated statement by a Sufi cannot mean an absolute command in every situation. What is important is i heed to the advice of my Shaykh, who knows my situation and my Hal!Of course i am following the advise of Ibn Arabi,but on the level where it is relevnt,not where it isnt!
Where is the love?
Because i criticize your methods ideas, does not compromise my love. People who peace ,peace and love all the time are usually hate mongers! The wolf often comes across as sheep.!
Saying love alot does not make love..it often cheapens the concept of love.
Your whole argument s based on hatred of the old scholars of Islam and the traditional world (who were and acknowledged themselves as far from perfect)..and the arrogance of modern semi intellectuals who think their little knowledge is a lot.According to Al Quran, Islam is the only way of life.
Make your mind up will you…so the verse you quote earlier about the Jews ,sabeans etc and other who believe in god is not valid??
Islam means submission to Allah, how do you submit to Allah,what is submission… if you live in Alaska and never heard of MUhammed how could you practise Islam (Understood as a Socio/religious term)…..well simply you couldn’t…!
The question what is Islam,what is a muslim is one that is a very complicated one..and dealt with arguably only in Sufism.To know Allah we simply need to read what He has given us in Al Quran.
Yes if you have the ability to read it properly…with your whole being : body ,mind and soul which is the most complicated interrelated entity in the whole universe..
Your are trying to impose a simplicity on the Quran/Allah /Religion and thus man himself which simply does not exist..it only shows your mediocrity..or possibly exposes your real agenda.Your explanation did nothing to make it clearer.
It is not clear to you because you seem to believe in a god in the sky that is remote and who only job is to give you a set of rules and regulations to live by. But that’s another argument, which i won’t entertain as i have already done so elsewhere and is not important in my personal dispute with your ideas. I would discuss that statement with somebody who understood or was willing to understand the spiritual language in which that statement was made.
In the quran Allah says there are seventy thousand veils of light and darkness between man and god for example.
Sorry my bad, that’s Hadith…the point I was trying to make was the use of the number seven in Arabic.
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Salamun alaikum all,
Islam is not a religion, because religion is a man-made. Islam is a deen, a way of life.
Wassalam
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MishMash says:
Barry Prima.
I don’t know much about Sufism, but based on what MK said, and what I read on Wikipedia, I agree with MK’s argument that sufism appears to be a distraction to the teachings of Islam as inscribed in the Quran.
Sufism deviate from the teachings of Quran.
Its teachings are man-made, and it isnt what is inscribed in the quranBarry prima said
Hindu and especially Taoist have been very important for me in discovering the wisdom behind a lot of Islamic practises and Sunnah
Why must you be influenced by the teaching of other religions such as Taoist, Hindu to understand the wisdom behind Islamic teachings?
why must your Islam be viewed from the lenses of other religions?
Is your brand of islam created through the amalgamation of bits of other religion? Aspect that you, or your sufi predecessors have deemed important or wise. As in your case of Hindu and Taoism.
The shaytans are leading you straight to Hell fire!
All your good deeds will be for naught on Judgement day.
Open your eyes. Repent while you still have time. -
Mr Barry wrote:
Sorry I don’t get this sentence at all. Are you trying to hide the fact you are completely not answering the question, but using grammatical terms which nobody will understand?
How can HE be a non gender pronoun???And I though you were the expert in Arabic?
From IslamicvoiceThe Arabic word ‘Allah’ has no gender. The Arabic grammar has only two genders, male and female and male gender is of two types:
1.Masculine Haqeeqi i.e. Real, which is used to denote the masculine gender in humans, animals.
2. Masculine Majazi i.e. Unreal, wherein it is used as Masculine but in reality it is not so e.g. (Angels) Malak, Layl (Night), Bab (door). The word Allah (swt), too falls in the second category i.e. Masculine Majazi.
The English language has got three genders; male, female and neutral. So if we translate the Arabic word ‘huwa’ into English, it can be translated as ‘he’ or ‘it’. And the Arabic word ‘hiya’ can be translated as ‘she’ or ‘it’.
Allah (swt) is unique and cannot be referred as ‘it’ in English, since Allah (swt) has no gender, neither male, nor female or neutral.
Some people may argue that the Arabic word ‘huwa’ and ‘hiya’ both can be used for ‘it’ or neutral gender, then why Allah has used ‘huwa’ and not ‘hiya’?
In Arabic grammar there are certain rules and criteria for feminine gender. First, if it is female by nature, like the word mother (ummun), it becomes feminine in gender. Allah is not a female. Second, if it ends with the third Arabic letter ‘ta’ like ‘mirwahtun’ (fan), it becomes feminine. The Arabic word ‘Allah’ doesn’t end with ‘ta’ so it cannot be feminine. Third, if the word ends with ‘Alif Mamduda’ (big Alif), it becomes feminine. But the Arabic word ‘Allah’ doesn’t end with ‘Alif Mamduda’ so, it cannot be feminine. And lastly, if the object occurs in pairs, like pairs of the body, e.g. ‘Ainun’ (eyes), ‘yadun’ (hands), they are considered feminine. But Allah (swt) says in the Glorious Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, chapter 112, verse 1:
“Say: He is Allah the ONE and Only;”
So Allah (swt) is one and not a pair. Therefore, by default since it cannot be used as ‘Hiya’ i.e. she or it, Allah (swt) uses huwa i.e. He. And Allah (swt) knows the best.
Mr Barry also continued in the same manner:
How can that be,if he clearly uses masculine terms to refer to himself, don’t apologize for god!
Your answer is above Mr Barry, read it again until it becomes clear.
Once more he asked:
Considered to be gender neutral by whom? Those who want to ignore what is right in front of them?
No Mr Barry, simply by those who understand grammar and the manner in which Allah presents himself in Al Quran.
He also wrote:
So is god contradicting himself when saying we (plural) as opposed to he (singular)?
We as is used here is the majestic plural otherwise known in English as the Royal ‘we’. This style is also used in Arabic.
From Answering ChristianityThese words, innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), and other forms of the plural, may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say “We have decided…” etc. [This is known in English as “The Royal We” – Translator]. In such cases, only one person is speaking but the plural is used for respect. The One Who is more deserving of respect than any other is Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, so when He says in the Qur’an innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), it is for respect and glorification, not to indicate plurality of numbers.
Later Mr Barry said:
In any case your literal, one dimensional approach to the Quran and Hadith can never explain their apparent absurdities to the modern mind. So you approach is first to reject the Hadith and after that it will be the Quran itself, because it will never conform to apologetic sensibilities/Feminism (as understood ) or even the kind of precision and soullessness /uniformity you wish to apply to it
Mr Barry it is only the hadith which have absurdities in them , not Al Quran, not at least for those who read it and understand it. But understanding Al Quran seems to be giving you some problems doesn’t it?
Apologetic sensibilities? I assume you mean applying Al Quran so that it upholds womens rights? Well to be honest with you, there is one verse which still puzzles me in that regard, so I have to assume that it has been either incorrectly transliterated, interpreted and translated.As to your explanation of the use of He in Al Quran, it seems to ignore the basic fact that there are only two genders in the arabic language. All your talk about Tao and Ying and Yang are only distractions. You have also forgotten that Allah has no matching pair, there is no Ying and Yang, Allah is genderless, he is neither male nor female, He is ONE.
Mr Barry said:
Kafis reading of the Quran and understanding of religion is purely Yang,,ie he reduces it to what is obvious, what is literal..my understanding is balanced with an appreciation of the yin, the mystery ,that which is unspoken ,that which is veiled from the eyes of those who are deficient in imagination and other spiritual faculties.
Or it could be of course that you are one of those in whose heart is perversity, mentioned in the verse earlier?
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise they are the foundation of the Book and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, “We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord.” And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. 3:7
I have given you a different translation this time as you didn’t like the last one!
Mr Barry said:
You really checked fourteen other ones…haha !
And are these fourteen other translations the same? no..Thats is my point!
Of course i verified the Translation, based on my understanding of the nature of Revelation itself!No I didn’t check 14 , I actually checked 17, it was just 14 that didn’t agree with your verse!, perhaps instead of verifying the verse based on your understanding of the nature of Revelation itself! You should have simply checked some other translations.
Mr Barry stated:
Missing the most obvious fact that the original Quran does not have any dots or diacritical markings….hence there is never going to be a fixed meaning, despite your claims that the Quran is clear and fixed.
I have never stated that Al Quran is clear and fixed. I have said that within it’s verses Allah says that it is complete, perfect and fully detailed, and that he will protect it. Allahs words not mine.
Mr Barry stated:
They tell me that you shouldnt accept them all blindly,and that a veyr high level od skill is required to establish what they mean.It also does not tell me that i have to reject all of them….
Who are ‘they’ Mr Barry? are they equal partners to Allah? Allah says:
Say: Should I seek a judge other than Allah, when He is the One Who has revealed this Book (The Qur’an) with full details? Those whom We gave the Book, before you, know very well that it is revealed to you from your Lord with the Truth; therefore, you should not be of those who have doubts. 6:114
These are the Messages of Allah We convey to you with Truth. Then, in what HADITH, if not in Allah and His Verses, will they believe? 45:6
Given a choice between one book carrying the word of Allah, which Allah describes within its pages as complete perfect and fully detailed, and multiple volumes of Hadith which your teachers admit to being flawed. Which one would any sensible man take?
Mr Barry asked:
Exactly ..why indeed…why is there such a consistency with the Hadith (not only in content but exact language) you quoted and those on Missionary sites.???
There are limited ways to translate Arabic to English and limited translations into English.
I would be asking why do these Hadith exist which the missionary sites can use against us?
Mr Barry said:
The very very basic flaws in the reasoning used to discredit the hadith you pasted (which by the way you have not responded to at all, even though that is the crux of our disagreement) shows that you don’t have the right tools to take upon this task.
What flaws in reasoning? The Hadith I have posted up, you yourself have even admitted are not accurate or false completely. The fact that there has been 1400 years of so called science used in study of these Hadith and there are still garbage contained in so called Sahih Hadith suggests to me that there are flaws in reasoning of the so called hadith scholars.
Mr Barry asked:
Also what i want to know who are the scholars, who created your anti Hadith line of arguments… and what are their credentials…….
They are not really scholars, one is Allah as illustrated above, The other is The Prophet himself, who is recorded as saying “Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it.”
The Four Rightly Guided Caliphs also figure prominently.
Abu Bakr at one point was not sure whether to keep what he knows of hadiths or not. He had collected 500 Hadiths during very long companionship of the Prophet Muhammed, but he could not sleep the night until he burned them. Omar Ibn Al-Khattab insisted on destroying the Hadiths collected by his son Abdullah. Islamic history mentioned the story of Omar Ibn Al-Khattab restraining four of the Prophet’s companions because of their insistence on telling Hadiths, these were Ibn Masoud, Abu Al-Dardaa, Abu Masoud Al-Anssary and Abu Tharr Al-Ghaffary. Omar called Abu Hurayra a liar and threatened to send him back to Yemen where he came from if he does not stop telling these lies about the prophet Muhammed. He stopped until Omar died then started again.Ali Ibn Abu Talib, the fourth Khalifa in one of his speeches said, “I urge all those who have writing taken from the messenger of God to go home and erase it. The people before you were annihilated because they followed the Hadiths of their scholars and left the book of their Lord.”
Mr Barry suprisingly said:
Again you seem to think that gods role is as some dictator, whose relation to one is solely that of giving us a set of rules.
The whole idea of Islam is not to present a perfect political/social system (although a lot of Muslims seem to have reached that conclusion) as if Allah were to reveal a perfect system and make it obvious, it would be rather totalitarian of him and rob us of the prize of free will. There is thus alot of scope to determine actually what that system should be, baring in mind certain principles.
Right on both scores Mr Barry, the first point if you had bothered to read some of my other posts in Indonesia Matters, is that the Rules that Allah expects us to follow are simple and are nothing like mainstream Islam, which does act in a rather totalitarian manner, with very limited freedom to question it and its teachings.
Mr Barry said:
Make your mind up will you…so the verse you quote earlier about the Jews ,sabeans etc and other who believe in god is not valid??
Islam means submission to Allah, how do you submit to Allah,what is submission… if you live in Alaska and never heard of MUhammed how could you practise Islam (Understood as a Socio/religious term)…..well simply you couldn’t…!
The question what is Islam,what is a muslim is one that is a very complicated one..and dealt with arguably only in Sufism.The question of what is Islam and who is a Muslim is not complicated at all Mr Barry, Islam as you earlier said is submission to Allah, The One God. A Muslim is simply one who does this. There is no socio religious aspect to it as far as I can see. The socio religious aspect is what has distracted people from the simplicity of the belief in Gods system.
Islam is not about any religious system, it is certainly not what we see in mainstream Islam, which is better described as Mohammedanism, it is not the present day Christian or Jewish systems either.
All peoples after being given simple instructions from God have corrupted them, The Jews being given Torah, would rather follow Talmud, The Christians after being given Injeel, the verbal message of Nabi Isa, would rather follow The New Testament writings, the Mainstream Muslims, having been given Al Quran would rather follow Hadith.
Islam is not a new system, Nabi Ibrahim is described as a Muslim in Al Quran, well before Nabi Musa was given the Torah. It is even possible if one studies the earliest Hindu scriptures which emphasis one God, rather than the present plethora of Gods which they worship to include the earliest Hindu’s as Muslim.
Any who beleive in God, the Day of Judgement and does good deeds as Allah says in Al Quran.
I apologise if my name makes you suspicious, but that is the name I am known by, by my family, friends, neighbours, and I am sure by my God. I am not hiding behind an assumed name.
Peace
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@ Mas Khafi
That and your avatar (any observer will note that is very evangelical looking…creepy!)
I have to agree with BP on your avatar. It sometimes scare me just by looking at it. Why not don a peci and looks smart like me? Just a suggestion.
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Assalamu Alaikum Brother Khafi and Brother Barry
I was very busy these days so I couldn’t manage to talk. I would suggest all my brothers and sisters who love Rasoolullah saas to ponder over the following. I have included the Arabic for Tilaawah.
At-Tauba [9:71]
Waalmuminoona waalmuminatu baAAduhum awliyao baAAdin yamuroona bialmaAAroofi wayanhawna AAani almunkari wayuqeemoona alssalata wayutoona alzzakata wayuteeAAoona Allaha warasoolahu olaika sayarhamuhumu Allahu inna Allaha AAazeezun hakeemun
9:71 The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
Al-Hujurat [49:10]
Innama almuminoona ikhwatun faaslihoo bayna akhawaykum waittaqoo Allaha laAAallakum turhamoona
49:10 The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear Allah, that ye may receive Mercy.
Reported Sayyidina Malik (RA):
Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:
I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet.
Muwatta Imam Malik 46.1.3
Reported Sayyidina Abdullah ibn Amr (RA):
Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:
The same things will be faced by my ummah as the Banu Isra’il faced as a shoe compares with (its pairing) shoe, to the extent that if there was anyone of them to have approached his mother (for sexual intercourse) then there will be in my ummah who would do that. And the Banu Isra’il divided into seventy-two sects and my ummah will divide into seventy-three sects, all of whom will go into the Fire except one millat (sect). The sahabah (RA) asked:Who are they, O Messenger of Allah (SAW). He said: What I am on and my companions .
Sunan Tirmizi 2650
Reported Sayyidina Al-Miqdam ibn Ma’dikarib (RA):
Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:
Beware! I have been given the Qur’an and something like it, yet the time is coming when a man replete on his couch will say: Keep to the Qur’an; what you find in it to be permissible treat as permissible, and what you find in it to be prohibited treat as prohibited…(till the end)
Sunan Abu Dawood 4587
Let’s listen to each other, but also pray for the Hidayah for each one of us. Hazrat Umer RA only converted after humble prayer of Rasoolullah SAW. I acknowledge the significance of Dawah (calling people to Allah) but we should not under-estimate Duaa ( supplication to Allah ).
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Elijah posted –
9:71 The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.Al-Hujurat [49:10]
and
49:10 The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear Allah, that ye may receive Mercy.
Muslims are so confuse they cannot tell the right from the wrong.
We have assigned to Hell multitudes of jinn and humans, those who have hearts that do not understand, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear. They are like animals, No! They are worse than animals, but they are not aware. (Quran 7:179)
See how muslims behave and you will know what I mean.
The Messenger will say, my Lord, my people have deserted this Qur’an. (Quran 25:30)
Elijah and others like him are examples.
Mthks and cheers.
Comment on “Muslim Rituals – Salaat”.
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Brother Khafi
Assalamu Alaikum
I wished to clarify one point that whether Hadith has proved to be a source of inspiration or it has played a role in someone’s life, it doesn’t make a Mauzoo Hadith more credible nor otherwise. We should not be subjective while judging a Hadith, rather our judgement should be on purely objective academic basis. To put it simple, we should keep emotions aside, look at the facts and then consciously make a decision, exactly the point Brother Khafi is trying to make.
For now I would like to share with you some sayings of the scholars of Hadith.
Imam al-Haramayn (Ibn al-Juwayni) said that if a man swore on pains of divorce that all that is in al-Bukhari and Muslim is sahih his marriage would be safe.
Ibrahim ibn Ma’qil said: I heard Muhammad ibn Isma’il al-Bukhari say: “I was with Ishaq ibn Rahuyah when a man said: ‘Why don’t you compile an epitome (mukhtasar) of the prophetic ways?’ This stayed with me, and was the reason why I compiled this book (the Sahih).”
Al-Dhahabi said: “It has been narrated through two firm channels of transmission that al-Bukhari said: ‘I extracted this book from about 600,000 (sound) hadiths, and I compiled it over sixteen years, and I made it a plea for what lies between myself and Allah.'”
Al-Firabri said: Muhammad ibn Isma’il said to me: “I never included in the Sahih a hadith except I made a major ablution (ghusl) and prayed two rak’at beforehand.”
Al-Nawawi said: “The scholars have agreed that the soundest of all hadith compilations are the two Sahihs of al-Bukhari and Muslim, and their vast majority have agreed that the soundest and most beneficial of the two was al-Bukhari’s ”
Happy learning:-)
Assalamu Alaikum