Timor Leste Relations
Oct 29th, 2008, in Opinion, by Guest WriterPurba Negoro sees broad sunlit uplands for East Timor-Indonesia relations, and current Australian nefariousness.
Timor Leste seeks Javanese Know-how
Timor Leste’s Economic and Development Minister Joao Gonzalves is visiting Yogyakarta Special Province (DIY) to explore win-win cooperation in various fields.
“We hope cooperation win-win cooperation with Yogyakarta in the field of agriculture, industry, handicrafts, and human resources development will be materialized,” Gonzalves said at a meeting with Yogyakarta Vice Governor Paku Alam IX here on Monday.
On the occasion, Gonzalves said Timor Leste as a new country in its development process invited Indonesian investors including from Yogyakarta to invest in various fields in his country.
Gonzalves said his visit to Yogyakarta was to obtain first hand information about the development of local small-and-medium scale industry.
“We want to get a lot of knowledge from Yogyakarta because this province has prospective micro and agrobusiness, and such a condition is similar to that in Timor Leste,” he said.
In his visit, Gonzalves also explored a possible business meeting with related institution in Yogyakarta and Timor Leste, as well as private parties to find out in which fields the cooperation could be made.
“Business meeting among government officials and businessmen will be of great advantage to Timor Leste`s development in agriculture, industry, handicrafts, and human resources development,” he said In the meeting with Paku Alam IX at Kepatihan Pareanom building, Gonzalves was accompanied by his deputy, Rui Mauvel. antara
Timor has finally had the scales removed from its’ eyes and seen the Australian “liberation” was exactly like that of the Australians in Papua New Guinea or the US in Iraq – a bold-faced grab for resources cloaked in an oft perpetuated lie – their own people delude themselves in as the truth is far too painful to digest.
Timor and Indonesia have buried whatever animosity existed since Gusmao’s highly respectful visit to Indonesia’s National Hero’s Cemetery – Kali Bata and met with many prominent Indonesian power-brokers including many former ABRI officers who served in Timor.
Hardly the actions of a victim of genocide – thus further proving Western NGO propaganda to yet again be propaganda, fabrication and embellishment.
History:
The relationship of Indonesia and Timor has historically been complex since the Portuguese abandoned the province amidst its’ civil war and the coup in Lisbon.
Timor was split into 3 main factions- one Leftist- FRETILIN, one pro Portuguese the landholder and business classes (majority Chinese) UDT and one Pro Indonesian- the APODETI. In June of 1975- FRETILIN boycotted the Portueguese tribunal on decolonization- representatives of UDT and APODETI complained that this was an effort to obstruct the decolonization process- UDP and FREILIN had formed a coalition since January.
The UDT started a coup and UDT and FREITILN fought violently – killing over 3000. UDT fled to West Timor and requested Indonesia’s military assistance under the guise of APODETI.
Australia was the first to recognise Indonesian sovereignty with full maritime border recognition and within three weeks a contract for US-Australian oil multinationals including Conoco Phillips, Sunrise Energy, Burmah Petroleum, former Borneo Oil, Woodside, and various other relics of those Anglosphere halcyon parasitic colonial days.
Fearing reprisals from FRETILIN when re-occupying Timor under the protection of the ABRI- UDT yet again flip-flopped and claimed the ABRO had coerced them with extreme violence and gladly payed extortion money to the FRETILIN thus enabling its’ terrorist activities prior to Australian NGO funding- principally through ETAN and the UK Foreign Intel Service’s construct :TAPOL
The West did not desire yet another Communist as Timor’s Fretilin was perceived. The US had real leverage to force Suharto to allow US nuclear submarines through the Timor Gap in violation of Australian sovereignty and maritime law- an act of war.
It should be remembered that US contempt for Indonesian sovereignty was highlighted again during the Yom Kippur War when the US deliberately kept an entire nuclear carrier fleet in the Malacca Strait.
Some of the few upright Australians later rued their latest transparent Colonial excursion as yet again selfless puppet of Britain and the US:
“We went to East Timor to help those people, and now we are slapping them in the face and stealing their oil.”
“We thought we were doing something decent. Now we have to ask the very real question of whether or not we went to East Timor to secure oil assets that aren’t ours.”
Major (ret’d) Chip Henriss-Anderssen, March 7, 2005.
East Timor became politically independent on May 20, 2002. Three weeks earlier, Australia withdrew from international legal processes for resolving maritime boundary disputes. On its first day of independence, East Timor signed the Timor Sea Treaty with Australia, allowing oil projects begun under the 1989 treaty with Indonesia to continue uninterrupted.
“Since 1999, Australia has continued as an occupier for Timor-Leste’s territory, acting on control over the Timor Sea that it obtained through a deal with the illegal Indonesian occupier
charges La’o Hamutuk.
Prior to talks regarding Timor refusal to accept Australia’s demands for Timor to receive less than 18% of the Greater Sunrise Gas Fields on March 7-9, of 2005 – a foreign affairs and trade department official told reporters in Canberra that the Australian coalition government was prepared to hold out for up to 99 years – referring to a “Hong Kong” scenario if the government of East Timor maintained its demand that the maritime boundaries be settled according to international law.
Projected yield for Greater Sunrise was expected to attain 30 billion, with a paltry 4 billion maximum to East Timor.
East Timor’s North West continental shelf has the largest known deposits of gas on the planet.
Such are the actions of Indonesia’s now Timor’s alleged “friend” of the region. With friends like these – who bold-facedly fund seccessionist NGO movements then attack Indonesia’s suppression of their terrorism- who needs enemies?
China and the former foe by US decree Soviet Union suddenly look very friendly indeed.
Indonesia’s newly refound friend, Russia’s, will be constructing a new massive cosmodrome very possibly capable of independent ICBM launches from undisclosed islands off Biak Island – with full sovereign rights to Russia.
Australia hosts several joint US military advance warning installations on the former Soviet nations and now China’s, top ten nuclear strike list- Pine Gap, Shoal Bay, Dutson Downs and several others as well as individual components of the Jindalee Operaton Radar Network established under Menzies (quoted as desiring the F-111 to be able to launch a nuclear strike on Jakarta) to deliberately spy on Indonesia- tellingly never taken out of operation when Konfrontasi had ended and full war friendships under Suharto.
Seven JORN transponders are located at Christmas Island, Broome, Kalumburu, Darwin, Nhulunbuy, Normanton and Horn island QLD. With 12 Ionosondes at Laverton, Ajana, Boolathana, Learmonth, South Hedland, Curtin RAAF, Kalkaringin, Groote Eylandte, RAAF Scherger, Lynd River, Longreach.
It has range estimated to be in excess of 4000 miles- allowing Australia to spy on China, Taiwan and North Korea, as well as covering all Indonesian territory- including parts of Thailand and Philippines.Isonodes of the Jindalee over-horizon radar system- built specifically to spy on Indonesia (now upgraded sensitivity to 4-4500 miles radius).
Australia has taught us very well the art of friendly platitude disguising the lethal back-stab.
My next post will be on Australia’s sour grapes colonial military aggression in Indonesia sovereign territory and affairs.
57 Comments on “Timor Leste Relations”
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Purba Negoro says:
Yes-
excellent points yet again Rob.
I think this journalist may be correct. Although Portugal was at times very brutal- it was nothing like that of the Dutch or the British- or even the French, Spanish or Italians.Portugal seemed to have a very different attitude to that of ultra Catholic Spain, racially motivated Dutch, less so British, and nonchalant French (perhaps silghtly less racist than the British- although inarguably it was part and parcel of mentality of the day).
Many nations commentators’ criticised Portugal for not doing anything and letting colonies fall into wreck and ruin- which suggests many allegedly Leftist academics STILL have very much the White Man’s Burden strapped to their shoulder.
I think essentially Timorese ambivalent until Indonesian arrival occupation- FRETILIN was very effective in their information and hearts-minds campaigns.
Basically Timor only became almost 98% Christian (Catholic specifically) after Indonesia’s “acquisition” (I think we can appease all with that term!) due to Panca Sila Constitutional Law which did not cater for Tetum and the many other Timorese animist and spirit worship traditions- which are still very much alive and the fodder for many tomes of academics to come.Then the other issue is that Portugal was mildly antagonistic toward Indonesia by parking an AEGIS ship off Timor that detected Indonesian paratroop airacraft.
The Portuguese trained and armed the Timorese Brown berets who shot the paratroopers as they arrived.So I suggest Portugal was hoping for a peaceful, friendly pro-Portugal decolonisation- and had no intention of upstart Indonesia taking it.
Indonesia built almost all infrastructure and public facility in in Timor. True some were initially for military transportation- but at the time we were expecting some possible hostility from Europe and India and China were very well aware what was in the North West Shelf.
Primary schools, village halls, PusKesMas village level health clinics are hardly what a genocidal aggressor builds.
I do not recall Hitler building these in Krakow.
And the roads are much better than in Java island itself!Now Australia sees actually much of the death is through Timorese land condition- very rocky, dry and little rainfall- sadly 84 died last year from famine and now reliant on UN food.
Prior- Indonesian surplus feeds the Timorese.The Timorese people can also be very regressive- in my day they view education with much suspicion- but actually their education is identical to the rest of the nation.
The land is very poor quality indeed.Indonesia is now a convenient friend- because we can protect Timor against future aggression from other nations- and perhaps more importantly our products are items the Timorese can afford. Although our history is troubled- and some problems probably never resolvable- we do have a shred history and the Sumba-nese and Nusa Tenggara – what abut just next door West Timor!! peoples have very similar cultures- so we are linked by language, race and culture.
Also- Indoensian higher education system immediately accessible to Timorese- most are fluent enough in Indonesian and Tetum is a pidgin language that has many “Malay” borrowings and similar syntax etc.I personally have no trouble with the Timorese- it is not true at all we Javanese or other serving ethnic saw them as racial inferior- as I state we have many ethnicity just like them- so they were not looked down upon at all- aside from their stubborn regressive behaviour at times- though this is evident throughout Indonesia. It is also false Timorese were used as slave by Javanese/Sumateran in ancient times- they were used as horsemen, horse archer and warrior- like the Sumbanese. Very good rider indeed.
Many West Timorese also served in new Timor Leste- this should not be forgotten either- it is alie to say the whole ABRI in Timor was Javanese- no it had very large input of Sumba, Nusa Tenggara and West Timorese- but this does not make for emotively compelling thesis material, Australian government propaganda (the Australians would be very confused- East Timorese oppressed by West Timroese- what’s the difference- both are Timorese!) nor simplistic Leftist academic anti-colonialist sentiment correct?
How many times the government has built deep water wells and the villager insist on using river to brush the teeth!
So- the village krebo will not be pushed and will work at the pleasure of the krebo only and only at its’ speed.
It’s hide and skull is too thick for whipping or yelling to be effective! This why farmer rarely whip the buffalo- it is useless- maybe that get angry at him instead of work.
So- very much like all the many Indonesian people in many ways.Maybe Rob if you wish to be very rich- you become importer-distributor of Indonesian wares in Dili. They are happy to see a white face and very much less so the typical Chinese businessman- another factor in motivating true Indonesian business- they do not wish to be exploited rentors in their own lands. Also- many influential businessmen- Chinese and Indigenous both- still have large plantations etc which need expert management
But- I think for Timorese as well as Iraqi, Irani and Saudi- hydrocarbon is very much a cursed blessing. They will forever be the rope in the tug of wars- they will never truly have peace.
I think this has permanently tainted Indonesia’s view of Australia that it cannot be trusted- and undone much of Keating’s work for ASEAN acceptance- especially considering it was Indonesia who was Australia’s strongest proponent and advocate. Why other nation listen to annoying pipsqueak Singapore? Thailand, Malaysia, Phillippines all hate Singapore – but will listen carefully to historically friendly and largest nation of the ASEAN.
Very myopic- I can recall some Australian entrepreneur very angry with Howard- this effect their business and market in the region too.
But it must be stressed in strongest terms the resentment of Indonesia is toward Australian government- particularly the new Labour government for their change of course treachery, and very much John Howard Conservatives- NOT the innocent albeit polemic at times Australian civilian peoples.
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Andy says:
The true story is provided on the above link.
PN-But it must be stressed in strongest terms the resentment of Indonesia is toward Australian government- particularly the new Labour government for their change of course treachery, and very much John Howard Conservatives- NOT the innocent albeit polemic at times Australian civilian peoples.
I’m actually surprised Purba it is not the other way around. As you can read in this link and many others with a quick google search, Australia’s government (to our disgust) aided and supported Indonesia’s military agression in Timor and covered up it’s atrocities. This went on from Whitlam until Howard. For this shameful affair my government has blood all over it’s hands. Throughout this time, the Australian people overwhelmingly supported peace for the good people of Timor. People who were brave soldiers during WW2 and saved many allied lives in their region. Also whatever you say about building infrastructure in the region is null and void as foreign journalists were not allowed in from 1975 – 1989. So what are we to do, believe the Indonesians? Having lived there myself I would say no.
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Oh Purba, that was Ross, not Rob in the previous post. Similar names but extreme opposite ends of the political spectrum.
Ross, I have a question. If the Timorese had other options than Fretelin to choose from do you think anything else would have changed in the region at that time? I doubt it. Timor would have still been invaded and the west would still have preferred them to be controlled by the regional strongman than to possibly blow with the wind at a later date.
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Andy-
to rebut every single ludicrous and at times humours lie would take forever.
I served in Ainereu- they cannot even spell it correctly- it was nearly uninhabitated- almost all empty forests and scrub.
There are no mountain villages- the land in the mountains is too poor for agriculture- so why live there- just as in Java.This is excellent use of clever emotive language to stir feeling of pity in naive whites of poor mountain noble savages oppressed byt eh “foreigner”.
Sorry- Andy this reeks of your ASIO and Mi6 infantile psy-ops.
I assumed you were too intelligent to fall for such transparent “babies bayonetted, pregant women bayonetted” anti-Hun type nonsense. It is same rehashed rubbish from 1914.So many “unnamed sources”= newspeak code for lies.
I have an unnamed source who says whales walk on land at nightime, dancing under the moon.
A harassed priest, under threat of torture by bamboo skewer. wrote in a letter to Danish embassy he witnessed Timorese eat baby fingers for snacks and noses dipped in toffee.See- nonsense. All made up.
Read your Orwell- this is what “newspeak” is all about.
Just like “plucky littl Gerogie facing up to bully Putin”- Wesetern Intel Agency lies.
FACT:
By its’ own news footage Georgia attacked Ossettia at dawn- firing indiscrimnately- into sleeping people houses and killing armed Russian peacekeeper- aloowed by agreement with Georgia to patrol the OSsettia border.
Tblisi was to be centre for only non Russian controlled petro pipeline in all Caucuses. All Georgian arms are American and Israeli made.
How can they afford?See- Western Intel Agency lies.
No mention of West Timorse soldier, Flores soldier, Ambonese- who we use as they are CHristian, look like Timorese and so visible confrontation- exactly like the UK using Gurkha instead of white soldiers in some parts of the world.
The timelines are incorrect and not consistent with other sources.
That Solidamor is NOT fact- it uses very few 3rd party facts which are almost uncheckable and unsubstantiated.It is the work of NGO’s favourable to FRETILIN- it make no mention of FRETILIN boycott of UN council on decoloniation established by the Portugeuyse- and reprtd as fact and occurding by the UN.
Solidamor has been closed since 2004- when the Solidamor flee from Jakarta.
They were all Indonesian and Burmese Chinese educated in Australia and have had their asset seized.You can check any of my fact from Wikiepdia or Multinationalmonitor
here:
or even the East Timorese own offical ETAN site:
Sorry Andy- that stench of Aussie-US oil-gas greed will not wash off. And Australian have been educated in a clever ASIO program of dehumanisation and alienisation of your laresgt neighbour- imagein how much money Austrlian companies will lose.
Indonesia suffers a nett loss from being naive pawn in this episode.
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You should read this Andy:
November 2007Book Reviews
Shakedown: Australia’s Grab for Timor Oil by Paul Cleary Allen & Unwin Academic, 336 pages, $19.95
Reviewed by Jeff Kingston
“In late 2006 while walking home one starry night, stupidly ignoring warnings about the dangers on Dili’s streets after dark, I was accosted by several youths who asked in menacing tones if I was Australian. I set them straight and they let me pass, making me wonder just how many places in the world these days it is better to be an American than from Down Under….not many I suppose..”This is a published work- so it is able to be scrutinised- not gossip on internet.
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No mention of West Timorse soldier, Flores soldier, Ambonese- who we use as they are CHristian, look like Timorese and so visible confrontation- exactly like the UK using Gurkha instead of white soldiers in some parts of the world.
Fact is I couldn’t care less where they come from or what their religion is, to say there were no human rights abuses and atrocities from 1975 – 1999 is utter fantasy. Can you tell me why foreign journalists were not allowed into Timor for 13 years? Very few countries in the world don’t allow foreign journos. Parts of Pakistan and North Korea are two others. It is happening now in Papua. What do they have to hide and don’t you think in this age news will get out anyway? The world is watching but unfortunately won’t act as they wan’t to be Indonesia’s friend. I said many times Purba that I did not support my government’s stance on this issue and believe it to be the blackest mark on our history. See in the free world we allow critical analysis of our own government. Indonesians are not used to that yet being under authoritarian dictorships for the bulk of their independance. But in time things will change. For Indonesia to break up or become communist is seen by our government to be less stable so we choose to be stuck in this current ‘marriage of convenience’. Our countries are friends Purba. The scare campaign of big bad foreigner only works for a naive domestic audience. It is a red herring to mask the many problems facing Indonesia namely corruption and lack of infrastructure.
On the Multnationalmeter link, they estimate 100,000 were murdered in Timor. Would that be your estimate? I thought it was closer to 300,000. In any case around 1/3 of the population were murdered. Purba, on that ETAN link do you know who Bob Brown is? I wouldn’t have thought you’d want to follow what he had to say. He is one our pollies who put pressure on the government to act on Papua.
On a lighter note, I see not everyone hates us in Timor. The Timorese government want us there. http://seminyakvillasonline.com/balinews/2008/09/03/timor-leste-wants-to-rival-bali-tourism/ Could be interesting in light of recent events if the future sees us going there instead of Bali. Haven’t been there myself yet but would certainly give it a go. More natural untouched beuty I imagine. Good day my friend.
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Berlian Biru says:
I have said it before; the Indonesians were no more or less justified in taking over East Timor than the Indians were in Goa or the Chinese were in Macau.
There was a civil war in East Timor before the Indonesians took over, it continued while the Indonesians were there, the Indonesians are long gone and funnily enough the East Timor civil war still rumbles on.
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Andy and Berlian
all very good points.
Very refreshing to hear your intelligent perspective on things- it suits you far better.
As per Timor- one can assume there is much most of us will never be permitted to talk about.
Goa very interesting topic- India was one of the firtst to recognized Indonesian sovereignty over Timor for precisely that reason of armed conflict in Goa.Ignoring all of this- Timor would be an amazing place to visit for Australians- imagine the Lombok or Gili of 20-30 years ago before the jaded locals didn’t spy whitey and expect money on the spot.
It is a beautiful place. Dili is a nice small town- quiet, wide roads few people, clean, simple usually honest people- something long since gone from Indonesia.Go visit before it’s too late! Maybe Andy is in advantageous position being bi lingual in Indonesian and English- Tetum is easy for you to then learn.
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sputjam says:
I think the aussies are there for the surf.
Going to yogyakarta to survey agriculture wast a waste of time. better go study how taiwanese and Thais do their agriculture stuff on hostile environment, i.e. infertile soil etc.Australia was the first to recognise Indonesian sovereignty with full maritime border recognition and within three weeks
and
On its first day of independence, East Timor signed the Timor Sea Treaty with Australia, allowing oil projects begun under the 1989 treaty with Indonesia to continue uninterrupted
Proof that it was indonesia that sold timorese rights to australians. On why The newly elected govenrment decided to continue with the treaty, maybe due to billlions being spent in exploration and extraction was about to begin. Anyway, a few million dollars into the newly elected president hands in a bank account in sydney, with sydney harbour apartment all paid for by the oil comanies could have concluded the deal, plus some aid to the newly elected govenrment, which presumably, is short of cash.
Best crop on sandy and dry landscape will be Jathropa, a hardy plant that can be planted just about anywhere and more productive than palm oil if bio-diesel manufacturing is planned.Maybe Rob if you wish to be very rich- you become importer-distributor of Indonesian wares in Dili. They are happy to see a white face and very much less so the typical Chinese businessman
I love to kiss chinese asses, especially the feminine ones, but have been told not to touch their breast as it may b contaminated with melamine.
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Sputjam,
you’re a fool and a knave.
Your comments have an underlying false presumption we indigenous Indonesians are as naive, immature and buffonish as you and other such Dutch-ites.Timor was known to be oil rich since the days of the Dutch- hence the Imperial Japanese taking the Sumateran, Malaysian and Irian oilfields first on their invasion route.
What brought them to Java among other factors was Cepu (the ‘new Cepu’ block) and outside of Malang- where there were numerous smaller oil wells and numerous West and far East Javanese small wells.
Pertamina and the multinational majors had already bore the cost of development and exploration. Pertamina has rooms fool of geotechnical data on Timor- much dating from the 1960’s.
Portugal knew exactly what was under their feet- so waited until the very last minute before they abandoned it prior to their instigation of a Timorese civil war.
Castor oil is better, with a better yield as it’s a more rapidly growing plant as it’s a grass.Considering your knoweldge about Indoensia is so poor and lacking- Timor has a climate unsuitrable for certain crops and certain other oil-yeilding crops are already extant.
Also- as Indonesia will be the world largest producter of bio-oils within the next decade- Insitusi Pertanian Bogor would be thus be a world authority on Indonesian climes and agri business, with new links being forged with Russian world-renowned institutions for future co-operation.
Siberia- having being the largest long-term sustained managed plantation forestry industry on the plant as well as plant derived bioethanol in constant operation since 1925.Sorry- brownie isn nowhere near as stupid as the Chinese and fat low-grade colonials paint him to be.
Just because Hokkiens are intellectual dwarfs, does not mean Austronesians also look and see whitey’s knee.
We see them eye to eye.It’s the West that is catching up-not the other way around- hence Indonesia has almost no use whatsoever for Dutch [ahem] “knowledge” nor “expertise”.
Their civil engineering is laughable and short term requiring huge outflow in maintenance costs, they essentially have no major manufacturing industry- aside from the crumbs we throw them to show us how to reverse engineer their ships.Their financial industry is now as bankrupt as their depraved middle-class moral onanist bourgeoisie society.
The British and Be-Ne-Lux are spawns of minnows compared to Russia in every possible field imaginable including cutting edge nano technology.
Sneer, snipe and mock all you like- but the world has turned and you now penniless Northern Europeans are no longer on top.Brush up on your Russian- because the Russians have no fear whatsoever of your pathetic NATO. Ivan is coming and is p!ssed off at your Anglo-Dutch sabotage to his nation.
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jawa asli says:
@PN
So, is it save or not to visit timor leste? I find these contradicting.
And if the timorese now know Australia’s intentions, are they going to rid of them aussies? also what happen to the greater sunrise project? can they cancel a treaty?()
sorry if the questions sound naive, I know nothing about politics but interested to learn.
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PN said –
Pertamina and the multinational majors had already bore the cost of development and exploration. Pertamina has rooms fool of geotechnical data on Timor- much dating from the 1960’s
On its first day of independence, East Timor signed the Timor Sea Treaty with Australia, allowing oil projects begun under the 1989 treaty with Indonesia to continue uninterrupted
which can only conclude that indonesia sold Timorese gas rights away for personal gains. maybe into the pockets of certin “ten percent” personality?
Why didn’t Pertamina invest in those fields themselves instead of giving it away to australia?
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Sputjam,
your knavishness resurfaces along with your Colonial divide et impera mindest this time in the latest Western guise of ‘human rights abuses’.
Such a transparent little myth- the poor little underdog exploited by the nasty genocidal foreigner.
The typical broadcasts of the Foreign Ministry’s own BBC.The presumption is “Timorese” existed. It never did- it’s a division entirely based on the relics of Dutch Portuguese Colonialism.
Divide.West Timor is the half closest to Australia too.
West Timorese like the former East Timorese are all Indonesian, on Indonesian territory therefore any and all rights to minerals are property of the Republic to be used as the Republic sees fit to pursue its’ Pancasila goals.Ethnic and individual ownership of such vast resources in unjust and counters a just and human society as dictated by the Panca Sila: a just and human society and social justice for all Indonesians.
The rights of the many outweigh those of the few- this is true democracy.
Peramina had an 20-80 split with Australia- Austrlia only started to foster sedition in the region when Pak Suharto dared demand from whitey to renegotiate to a 40-60.
Australia has since been shamed internationally for its’ transparent imperialism by accepting a 50-50 split on solely the Greater Sunrise fields alone. The rest are 20 Timor, 80 Australia.
Maybe you should relearn this and redistribute the ill gotten wealth of your Amsterdam-Antwerp, Jews- Dukes of Sierra Leone, Lords of the Blood Diamonds and now the Lords of Larsony.
I am sure Pim Fortyn made many enemy among your disproportionately overprivileged utterly corrupt and insatiable Jews.
Colonials will never learn. Thus they must be burned out.
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Oigal says:
Australia has since been shamed internationally for its’ transparent imperialism by accepting a 50-50 split on solely the Greater Sunrise fields alone. The rest are 20 Timor, 80 Australia
Absolute rubbish.. I suggest anyone who still believes anything this twits says, do a simple google search..
There are no mountain villages- the land in the mountains is too poor for agriculture-
Rubbish..have you ever even been to the Island?
Can’t be bothered with the rest of the toss..
Its hard to believe one person could be so ignorant and foolish
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Fact is, indonesian government, for some funny reason, decided to share the “greater sunrise” gas field, which lies about 170km from Timore and 450km from darwin, with australia, when they could have almost all of it to themselves when they were ruling both east and west timor.
We have to know the reason why as –
Most, if not all, of this field would belong to East Timor if permanent maritime boundaries were established in accordance with principles of current International Law.Indonesia signed with australia a maritime boundary in 1972, which gave australia 2/3 of the dstance between the shores of both nations whilst 50/50 is the norm.
Why did Pertamina initially sgn 20/80 split with australia when they actually own almost 100% according to median maritime boundary law? Were the negotiators having a holiday, instead of doing serious work during negotiations?
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Ross says:
Andy, thank you for putting readers right about my identity. I’m sure Rob would be as alarmed as I was over the mix-up.
As to how things might have changed, had the situation gone differently in East Timor, I suspect Suharto would have found it harder to justify his intrusion had a monarchist Timor emerged. It would have offered no threat to anybody.
I understand the chiefs and kings of both halves of the island maintain friendly relations. Pity self-determination has never been a factor in this archipelago, otherwise we might have had a collective monarchy down there, a beacon of sanity shining its light across the ocean towards Australia! -
Oigal,
the awful truth is so confronting.Suharto daring to take Australia to court over its’ illegal 1972, then 1989, then 1997 Timor Gap Treaties- which wree incompatible with UNCLOS Maritime Law.
Once again- Australian military the blissfully ignorant, albeit arrogant blunt tool of the Imperialists.
Your nation of churls reeks of enslavement, theft and oppression.
Read all about it by one of your own scholars:Unlike your permanently high/drunk Australian, ill-disciplined frightened post-pubescent ‘liberators’ (or should it be more accurately: libertines?) in TimTim- I’ve actually toured outside the Australian AO’s: the pubs, half-dollar brothels and rent-boy strip clubs of Dili.
Even when your soldiers were patrolling in 2004- one brown face looks alike to them.
Idiots- not even able to spot a wanted for questioning ABRI officer not 2 metres from their very large red noses- (reminding we Indonesians of the proboscis monkey- the “orang belanda”- who honks all day self-importantly).Not to worry- we know all your weaknesses and all your dirty dark secrets.
I know it wil take time for your brain to digest- your leaders feed you all lies and propaganda so you’re all sheep for their Imperialist state-corporate machine.
Your Ostrayan soldiers are actually corporate puppets- they always were and always will be- nothing more than willing Lickspittles of petro-corporations.
Sad truths I’m afraid- how many died when their fathers’ lied?Or have your forgotten your own poets- like Kipling?
You fight soveriegn innocents and die for it for what? Oil.
North Africa? Oil.
El Amein? Oil
Tobruk? Oil
Palestine? Oil
Gaza- Oil?Why Aus Army supply Kuo Min Tang and Chiang Kai Chek’s fight in Northern China? Oil.
Papua New Guinea, Borneo (now Sarawak) and Peninsular Siam (now Malaysia)? Oil.
Timor? Oil (gas- world’s 7th largest proven hydrocarbon deposits)
Iraq? Oil (world’s 2nd largest proven deposits)
Vietnam? Oil- the Gulf of Tonkin and the South China Sea are full of hydrocarbons. Hence China wanting a slice of the pie.Myanmar (“Burma”) “martyr monks”? (lol so camp and ludicrous even for ‘Auntie BBC) agit prop? Oil
BHP is part owned by Burmah Oil- booted out of Myanmar by Myanmarese heroic nationalists in their nationalisation drive of their soveriegn assets. Those uppity Malays.
Sputjam,
why not go ask your Royal Dutch Shell.
I notice your military now allows gay marriages. Nice they finally legally recognise long standing Dutch traditions.
Dutch love, dutch wifes and all that.As a Dutch or equivalent drooling Dutch-ophile and therefore matchless expert on privateering, theft, piracy and sexual deviancy, International Maritime Law would of disinterest to you.
So for the Dutch- no we weren’t caught napping- we aren’t Spanish. Not all tanned skins are one race.Summarily:
Australia claimed the Timor Trough consistent with Truman doctrine of 1945.
Further it claimed with the backing of the USA-UK Portugal and even less so uppity Indonesia (from Leti Island) could not legally claim anything beyond the same Trough.
The Timor Trough is less than 60 miles from Timor island- hence it’s entirely misleading name.I’ll digress- this handily proves the lies about ABRI dumping bodies into it completely false and ridiculous- how clever is it to dump bodies where there are the highest concentration of permanently manned oil/gas platforms- jointly patriolled by the RAN.
Back to argument:
Australia squabbled and bought time with two more agreements.
The 1989 agreement (used in loosest possible terms) simplified- the 1972 Treaty- but actually made the future situation more complex. It was a clever rewroding of the inequitable status quo.This forced Indonesian to seek further renegotiation culminating in the 1997 agreement.
This is because Australia refused to budge on the issue of 1982 200 mile EEZ UNCLOS as Australia refused to be bound under jurisdiction of the ICL.
Then Australia does a partial backdown- but still claims rights in what it calls Joint Development Zones.
See- the West talks such profuse hot air about fair play- but never ever acts according to its’ own very cheap talk.
And don’t think for one second spiteful Royal Dutch was on the side of Indonesia- having lost its’ very easily accessible and very handsome ROI’s re the Java island Cepu and Malang oilfields.BUT Australia- when Suharto dared contest the legality of the 1972- Australia relapsed to tried and true British post-Colonial tactics- funding insurrection and seditionists in Timor.
We underestimated their stupidity in that they would not carry so myopic and potentially murderous a bluff through.
We once again bestowed far greater honesty, integrity and intellectual credit to Australian leaders than they deservedKick me once- and, yes, unlike Western leaders we have the intellectual capacity to complete that idiom- even in a foreign tongue.
And Oinkgal:
I quote:
Timor Gap Treaty, Article 4.1.(b) is ‘pay to the Republic of Indonesia ten (10) per cent of gross Resource Rent Tax collected by Australia from corporations producing petroleum from Area B equivalent to sixteen (16) per cent of net Resource Rent Tax collected, calculated on the basis that general company tax is payable at the maximum rate.Did Australia pay its’ dues?
No.See- you Australians have now taught us force and a bloodied nose is the only langauge a bully understands.
And a map for Oigal:
As you can see- Indonesia is still very much shortchanged- but we will shall punish Australia’s leaders in good time.
Gusmao has been taught a valuable lesson in Real Politik- the first world plays only by the terms convenient to it.
Also whether it is keep one’s enemies closer than one’s friends or the enemy of my enemy is my friend- playing convenient friend Indonesia off against convenient friend Australia- is of debate.
Russia offers Indonesia the best solution: a blackened sky of cheap, lethal anti-shipping missiles and black shoals of Kilo submarines. -
PN…
Sounds like you wrote this in order to have another bash on Australians and to try and deflect any serious debate about the almost quarter century of brutal Indonesian occupation.
There is no doubting that Gusmao has been trying to bury the hatchet and move forward but this is hardly evidence that genocide or other crimes against humanity did not take place.
The problem with that argument is its simplicity. You take a visit by one head of state to its nearest neighbor and infer this undermines any claims that crimes occurred during the occupation. A misrepresentation at best and more likely a deliberate distortion of the truth on your part.
The piece was a good read though. It could probably be written into a 90-minute made for TV movie script or an episode of Spooks or something similar.
-
If that is the case, why did indonesia bother to sign an agreement with australia over disputed territories? Might as well leave it unsigned until the dispute is resolved by some international tribunal. Unless it was desperate for returns from the oil and gas fields in the disputed areas.
Having said that, areas under indonesian jurisdiction are not developed due to some problems arising from Petamina. So why bother with disputed fields when the ones in hand are undeveloped? Even Exxon-Mobil was chased out by Pertamina. -
PN,
I shall not bother with your inane and factually inaccurate (as usual) rants except to say that the advantages to Australia from the oil and gas were far far greater under the Indonesian arrangement than now (the rights and wrongs of that may be debated at length but at least one should start from a position of fact instead of the so easily dismissed claptrap you spew forth so regularly).
Sorry still laughing at your claim there are no villages in the mountains of East Timor, don’t be so silly, you do yourself even a greater disservice.
The sad part is I doubt very much that PN is anymore Indonesian than I am but in his attempt to bait and spew forth his anti australian rubbish (for whatever reason) he has no problem using the suffering of others as grist including children and its a disgusting position for anyone to take and really says a lot about his character.
-
Oigal-
I look forward to your own learned rebuttal of your own scholars.
Children?- what next: boiled barbecued babies? Pregnant mothers bayonetted, nuns raped, priests shot?Oh I see- you’ve changed “Hun” with ABRI- aren’t these exactly the same infantile lies about the “Hun” first in 1914, then in 1940?
And then plucky underdog Kurdi’s.
Remind me Oigal- how many have the allies killed in Iraq for oil?
How many Vietnamese did Australians kill and are criminally complicit in killing- in a land and war they had no right whatsoever to be involved in?Khmer Rouge- who was one of the very first to recognise these peaceful people?
Rob-
how could your belief system and received knowledge ever be disproven.
Liberal luvvies so renowned for their reliance on third-party fact.
Australia has no credibility whatsoever- a cursory look at its very sordid history is ample enough proof.You may all pat your own backs as you weep over Rudd’s trite mincing all you like- but we know exactly that until the 1970’s Aborigines were classed by your bureaucracy as native animals.
Never such vile endemic scientific and institutional racism ever existed in Indonesia.
No amount of Omo will ever remove those stains.One day look at Australia’s maritime boundaries Rob- and ask yourself- are they fair and whom exactly benefits most?
Ross-
sorry- I just realised the mistake- like when you proof-read something again and again and never pick up the typos- must have skimmed over it.
Australians- greedy beggars aren’t they?You know they steal PNG’s maritime wealth as well?
-
Rob
Here is the Map:
http://www.ga.gov.au/image_cache/GA3746.pdfYou will find it also attached to Austrlia’s failed attempt to protect their dubious EEZ from the Jpanese in the guise of whaling.
The Whale sanctuary was just a handy pretty cloak for the moral onanists to fawn over which would provde a very handy cover for protecting very dubious continental shelf EEZ’s.
Exactly like the Las Malvinas (Falkands)- why do the British want some tiny island thousands of miles away?
Oh I see oil and gas. More blood for oil- more theft of another’s land for greed.
Read all about it in Oil and Gas News– a website for latest Oil and Gas Offshore news
Perhaps Indonesia should start to fund New Guinea’s Vanuatu, New Caledonia and other’s maritime claims to really air all of Australia’s own very dirty laundry.
Post colonialism?
What a sick joke -
Yes arsewipe…Children! Unlike you miserable F/Witt, I saw it, it fact we had the mother of three children working with us, her husband was murdered, she had machette scars all over her back nd her 6 year old son had machette scars all over his lower legs where she had not been able to cover him completely with her body during the attack by the pieces of human trash you say didn’t exist. You really are low piece of scum even for a troll.
Its demeaning even to respond in writing to your sick twisted little rants, so therefore….
-
PN…
Just a rant! Nothing much of substance in what you have said in response. The issue was about Timor Leste and not Indigenous Australians and how poorly the Australian government has treated them. Bringing this up is tangential at best and once again an attempt to deflect from the main topic.
I am, and have been, quite vocal in support of an apology and the need to address past wrongs and find justice in order to move forward. This is the same position I adopt on Timor Leste, simply that to move forward there needs to be some degree of accounting of the past. Unfortunately, this past is all rosey for you. No crimes were committed, right?
Your arguments are all over the place on this one. Whaling, Falklands, EEZ, and the like. But, I guess as the author of the original piece this is your prerogative.
-
Oigal,
you will find no evidence whatsoever least of which will hold up under cross-examination or even the least admissible into a court setting that any one member of Indonesia’s ABRI was ever involved in any physical violence in TimTim.It is black propaganda to dehumanise Javanese in particular and covering justifictaion for Australia’s oil-gas theft and imposition of illegal anti UNCLOS or very dubious extended EEZ’s.
You will ample evidence that in fact it was Timorese who savaged one another in their common tribal revenges, thuggery and such like feuds.
There is no proof at all any ABRI were ever involved in their organisation, training or funding.ABRI has not motive for such thing.
I explainL
We have HRW and MI constantly peering over our shoulder- and worse US Demoracts are in power and liberal nosy people in nearby Australia constantly opening wound of accidentally dead journalists.No motive to induce fear: Why:
Some Timorese are afraid of electricity and white people- hardly a challenge to intimidate them. They are very simple people.
Ad then if intimidate them- they will run to the hills and hide- and then they starve as they are myopia to harvest and maintains the crops.
So TimTim self create severe food problem and then fight between one other for scarce food ration- which distributed by ABRI and BULOG- supervised by UN.Then- the provokator of the West see this and start making many wrong story not blame the TimTim’s own stupidity and blame us Indonesian soldier.
But if objectively examine- it makes no sense- there is no motive and no desirable outcome. So it does not withstand any logical non-emotive evaluation.
There was no motive for ABRI to abuse the Timorese- it serve no purpose- but self destructive outcome an increased undesired Western interferences
We ABRI were in Timor like the UK Army in Ulster- to keep the peace between fighting groups of tribal thugs.
Only in Timor they fight with sword and traditonal weapon thankfully not bomb- as they are very poor.Then issue of FRETILIN terrorist is they are lawful combatant- with new foreign weapons- including Australian Steyr and old short barrel FN FAL- you call it SLR- but still a very powerful assault rifle.
Indoensian ownership of East Timor recognised by Idnia, Japan, USA, Australia, UK and many nations- only Cuba, and some small nation object.
China object as it wants a foot step into vast South China Sea hydrocarbons resourcesOigal- see- this is Real Politik- big money stakes. Billions upon billions of dollars of gas and oil.
Human Rights, oppression etc- it is all cheap talk.
How to explain the double standard of Western world toward Saudi Arabia?
Mobutu?
Mugabe until recently (now we know it has world 3rd largest platinum deposits & 2nd largest diamonds)Rob- is it hard to stomach that the Great White Saviour is nothing more than petty thief?
Thios is indisputable fact- everywhere there is tectonic juncture, trough or tectonic fault line there is hydrocarbons suitable for economically viable extraction.
In Australia and neighbour region- ocean is very shallow and close to large regional hub for distribution and transportation.Gulf of Mexico. Icelandic meets Danish and Norwegian shelf- North Sea Oil.
Off Ulster there is oil and gas.
Off Falklands is Oil and Gas
GAS. Simple. Billions upon billions recoverable within 10-20 years Rob.Why is Gulf of Arabia so rich with Hydrocarbons? Tectonics.
Alaska? Canada?
The point I make is the Anglo world including Australia is very clever at disguising its’ grabbing of the troughs and junctures that do not belong to it- in this case the emotively attractive Whale red herring.In the case of Thatcher it was the emotive nationalist pride for the Malvinas- (no Indonesia does not recognise UK colonial theft of these Islands nor the British forced expulsion of South American Indian natives 200 years ago).
Your government propagandizes its’ economically driven ulterior motives (party donaters) with emotive drivel your many mentally feeble or lazy people cannot see through.
What is the motive for such ridiculous EEZ extending into TimTim Trough- less than 60 NM from West Timor even?
If you do not believe me- here read some scientific knowledge to push that emotive humanities nonsense out of your head and make you the good cynical thinker- not a ill-informed puppet.
Everything a government do has a motive- just you look at my nation. Why Australia not the same? Answer must be same. See- it is still manure whatever the colour or smell.
This is from Uni Auckland- Hydrocarbon Seeps at Tectonic juncture and lots of stuffs about the worms
And here very similar techno- geology to Timor and offshore Australia- I bet Rob you did not know how much oil is in Trinidad and Tobego- much less Jamaica and even Caymens (what about Seychelles)!
1,5 billion barrel in T&T- very good reason enough for Empires to linger.
See the map of the shelf geography- why does it look so familiar?Almost same as between Cape York and PNG.
Now compare current world conflict zones to this map:
Now dare look me in the eye and say no connection.
Rob- We must be very cautious of the future between Australia and Indonesia- there is very much temptations for bad-moral people- the Cenozoic Rift- it run through my nation.
Which also explain why Australia such good friend with otherwise uninteresting Solomon Island- Cenozoic Rift.An informed public can avoid mindless slaughter caused by corporate greed and lies of their purchased governments.
But at in the same time- you invest in oil and geo-technical survey company- you will retire very well.Rob and Oigal
I think your Australian people need to relearn cynicism of own government- else they will be like the stupid goat happy to run to the butcher to be someones dinner. -
PN…
you will find no evidence whatsoever least of which will hold up under cross-examination or even the least admissible into a court setting that any one member of Indonesia’s ABRI was ever involved in any physical violence in TimTim.
You really should consider a life in stand up comedy!
This statement might seemingly be true in an Indonesian court, particularly when one considers that any lower court convictions of ABRI personnel were overturned by higher courts in the Human Rights Court here. It is and was not surprising that the only two convictions that were upheld to cassation were against Timorese defendants, and ultimately these were overturned on Judicial / Case Review. If I am not mistaken.
However, the recommendation of the Australian Coroner’s Court that indictments be pursued suggests that the evidence of physical violence by ABRI members against citizens of the now independent Timor Leste would stand up to scrutiny.
Don’t bother yourself with the, “this is just the moralizing of an onani obsessed West of frilly pink knicker-wearing armchair loony leftists tree-hugging, che-loving revolutionistas,” as this is just your way of trying to deflect attention off of the fact that your arguments cite only sources favourable to your position and ignore any alternative opinion and fail to address that alternative position in any substantive manner other than through insult and ridicule.
The idea that the “great white saviour as a petty thief is hard to stomach” brought a smile to my face as it highlights the simplicity and lack of substance in your arguments. It is also amusing that you seem to believe that as a proud Australian that I support 100% and blindly the actions of my government. You really need to get out more and see how the rest of us live in the real world.
But what is even funnier is that in financial terms (I wonder if there is anything on Wiki about this — I will check), the amount stolen from the Timor Leste people by the brutal Indonesian dictatorship of Soeharto is not petty thievery, but long term rape and pillage of an occupied land and people.
But there really is not need to waste your time on me. I am never going to be converted by you to anything that you say about the peace-loving nature of ABRI and the good intentions of the Republic of Indonesia in Timor Leste.
Your insults I find mildly amusing and I get a good chuckle at them because that is your forte! Structured debate is not what you are good at. You, like your chum AAB, really sing a single tune and to all intents and purposes are one trick ponies. Your arguments always fail to address alternative points of view and adduces into the record only that which supports you. A good advocate is able to address why the arguments against a position are invalid whilst making their own case. This is something you have failed to do, and I am sure will continue to fail at miserably.
That’s just my two cents worth though.
-
Your Howard government Kangaroo Court- this “Human Rights Courts”- which interestingly have shied away from the true human rights abuses of those such as lawful combatant in Guantanamo Bay- and also the Human RIghts of those abused by the Austrlian Wheat Boards proven bribery of alleged enemy Saddam Hussein- Nor the Human Rights of those millions of Iraqi children- thousands of whom died due to your nations ‘sanctions’ for Iraq’s historically rebellious Kurds.
But this along with Australia’s very blind eye toward the Human Rights abuses of its’ own citizens in Northern Ireland and death of Australian civilians by the IRA is also telling.
Then if one considers the Human RIghts abuses of Australians in Papua New Guinea- where Austrlia foriegnn oil-worker are routinely abducted, ransomed and commonly gang raped by Papuans- infecting some with HIV.
Which is actually propped up entirely by Austrlian government aid- where austrlian governemnt is willfully negligent in protecting its’ own people.Then what of the cosy relationship to Human RIght alleged abuser Saddam Hussein for Australian wheat?
Saudi Arabia- where even Western women are not allowed even to drive or travel without male accompaniment?See- your nation is smug hypocrite with no solid ground watsoever- only its’ own nightsoil which it produce in such copious quantity and regurgitated by its’ lawyer.
We know all your filthy secrets Rob- Australia is playing a game of bluff it cannot afford to call.
It is as transparent as your governments gas-oil agenda- only you are too puffed yp with your own moral importance to see it.
When will you learn Rob- the West is the true theif and bandit- no one comes a close second or even thrid.
Australia’s Coroners’ Courts- who relied solely on witness testimony, no forensics, no bodies or pathology?
Pathetic- you could not even jail a murder with knife in his hand with such ridiculous hearsay.
Republik Indonesia refused to dignify such vile slander and utter lies and misinformation with any presence.You trite little “court” has no recognised authority nor jurisdiction on any of our citizens let alone any citizen other than that of your nation.
In an International Court setting your Human Rights cases- which were bycytotted by the slanderously accused defendants- whose absence in your legal system is not to be ever used as presumption of guilt courtIndonesia would easily tear such o9bviously biased and subjective trite little moral pedantry to shreds while happily airing all of Australia’s dirty laundry- in which YOU ROB as an oil/gas petrochemicals product consumer actually was an active participant.
I hope you find solace in your own complicity as willing ignorant enabler-consumer of oil and gas from East Timor- thus being a tiny yet ultimate cog in the machine- the consumer/end user for whom the hydrocarbon giants cater for.
Everytime you Australians turn on your stove or drive your car- you and every Australian willingly paid for Indonesia in Timor.
The Australian governemnt and its’ oil companies were the one breaking and entering then unlawfully removing such goods- you were the purchaser- thus under your own legal system you and the Australin public are very much a co-conspirator if not fully informed handler and possessor of stolen goods.See- you are the person using the stolen silver ware- happily ignorant of its’ bargain price or original owner.
Indonesia took 10-16% of the NETT Austrlian profit pre tax.
This means Australia stole 86 to 90 % of all Timorese resource during its economically convenient partnership with ABRI.
See Rob- you Australian are the thief as incriminated by your own nations’ documentation- which your moral onansit court refused to admiot as evidence.You can be as stubbornly ignorant as you wish and negate my argument by ignoring the very real Australin motive and indeed shared burden of guilt.
You will note I did not call you or OIgal any name in my the above argument- so it is telling of your own insecurity of your argument you must resort to name calling and innuendo in this objective debate.
You must think we ABRI are too stupid and proud to pay no expense spare for Australian or even Jewish lawyer- the Americans tell us with great authority the Jew is the best for attacking Tort Law tactic of obfuscation and technicality.
Your nations’ treachery will come back to haunt your public unless it atone.
It is very telling even liberal SBY refuse to see your mincer Rudd.
And from what I hear of Mr Pratt and Mr Lindsay Fox- both are very angry to loose this lucrative Indonesian market for your nations Oil greed. -
I leave you with one of your own greatest leader:
Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.
Winston Churchill.
How far the apple has fallen from the tree. You now liberals of the West are depraved emotive, willfully ignorant self-indulgent and subjective to the point of polemic.
“The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.”
Good idea Shakespeare- one less social parasite. See- proof how far your society has sunk- your best poets despise your “legalitaire au faire” -
Major (retd) Timothy Doggington-Smythe says:
What? Who is this fellow, hah? Purble? Poodle? Whatsit? Puerile Negro? Well that’s fitting, hah!
I say old man, be a sport and top me up, would you; go easy on the water…Now this Puerile Negro chap, I’ll tell you, he’s the Javanese character in a nutshell, what! All mouth and no trousers – not that they wear trousers out there, prefer women’s skirts generally. It’s the climate, y’know, what!
Bloody crying shame to see it though, this jumped up little piccaninny, shooting his mouth off. Just goes to show what happens when you free them from the yoke. Don’t know how to handle it, what!
Take away the fear of a bit of stern white discipline to keep them in line, and they all go haywire. It’s in their character, amuck and all that. It’s the climate, that and the women’s skirts…Now what this Puerile Negro chappy needs is a good touch of the old birch, put him back in his place. Give the little blighters half a grasp of the English language, give them half a dose of liberty and look what happens. Disgraceful little bugger, no respect for women or his betters, what!
Another peg old man, if you will…You see, the Javanese are in essence the most gutless race in the East, enervated bunch of bumboys if you really get down to it. Give me the old Pathan any day – now that’s a real man.
But these Javanese like old Puerile Negro – hah! Nothing to them, what! Honestly old man, they don’t even have any culture of their own. Just a barrel of debased Hindoos if you really get down to it. Turned Mohammedan now, but they don’t even seem to get that right. The Mohammedans aren’t a bad lot generally speaking, and they usually know how to fight. Not the Javanese though, what! Never really mastered Hindooism, and they haven’t managed to get to grips with Mohammedanism either. Nothing original of their own, just a few second hand odds and sods, what! A few bits of Chinese food and architecture, a borrowed language, a couple of old Indian story books, that’s about the sum of it, what!
They just prance around like a bunch of poofdahs, just like this Puerile Negro’s doing. Pathetic.Oh there are some fine fighting men in the Indies, I’ll grant you that. The Madurese are a rough lot, but they’ll wield a knife well enough if you point them in the right direction; Balinese too, not half bad for a mob of Hindoos.
But the Javanese? Hah! Too busy holding hands and fondling each other under their women’s skirts…
Gosh, I think I could do with a drop more here if you wouldn’t mind, there’s a good fellow, and another log on the fire too…You see, they really are the most arrogant of all the Asiatics, and they’ve the least to be arrogant about, what! Puerile Negro – hah!
You have to look at it like this old man, they wouldn’t have anything if it wasn’t for Johnny Dutchman and Johnny Chinaman, and that’s a fact. They were all prancing around in those glorified gazebos that they call palaces – hah! I’d take that Puerile chap to India, show him a real bloody palace, even slippery Bengali babus have more backbone than a Javanese – while Johnny Dutchboy and old Slit-eyes, and a few proper Mohammedans from Aden were building their cities. And now the little bastards have the nerve to claim the country for themselves. Hah!
What is it they call it these days, hah? Indonesia? Didn’t have their own name for it, eh? Had to go for the Greek? Well that says something, what!You see, say what you will about Johnny Chinaman, and I know he’s not to be trusted old man, but he certainly knows the value of money and hard work, and without him, Puerile Negro and the rest of his Javanese bumchums would still be in their mud huts without a stretch of road between them. Because that’s the one thing you can say about the Javanese, what! He’s a lazy little blighter.
Honestly, he needs a good thrashing, that’s what he needs. You can probably blame it on the Dutchies to be honest, what, didn’t whip ‘em soundly enough, what! If it were up to me I ship in a few sturdy Pathan regiments and give ‘em a quick dusting, then turn the whole show over to the yellow fellows. Oh, they’d lie and they’d steal, but the ship would run a lot more smoothly…
I’ll tell you what old chap, I’m just about plum tuckered out. I think I shall retire to my chamber, but do just fill me a nightcap before I go, there’s a good man…
If you see that Puerile Negro chap, clip him round the ear for me, and tell him to learn a bit of respect, what!Note from Major Doggington-Smythe’s Guardian-reading social worker:
I wouldn’t normally let the major out from his usual lodgings, but new research in the field shows that a bit of sunshine and fresh air is highly beneficial in the matter of palliative care in cases like his.
Also, as Achmad Sudarsono appears to be unwell, and Purba Negoro has ceased to be even remotely amusing, I thought he might actually have something to add to the discourse…
Comment on “Timor Leste Relations”.
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Interesting point of view, but …
I often wonder why the Timorese were not given a wider range of choices- apart from those Fretilin Castro-clones, many of the islanders would likely have voted for a Portuguese commonwealth-type association, if not full integration. Portugal always had a non-racial attitude and though the old authoritarian regime in Lisbon was hard on dissent, it was no harder on overseas citizens than on the metropolitan ones. But if the UN was involved, I guess no real chance of self-determination that might upset the Decolonisation Committee (known for its support for Argie imperialism)
Secondly, I did read a seemingly balanced and authoritative book last year by a Western journo, I’ll need to cheek it out over the weekend, who reckoned that the local monarchists in KOTA Party would have mustered broad support had the media in Tim-Tim not been monopolised by the others.
Please let me have your thoughts on those aspects, Purba.