Amrozi Executed by Firing Squad

Nov 9th, 2008, in News, by

AmroziAmrozi, Muklas, and Imam Samudra are executed by firing squad.

Ali Amrozi bin Nurhasyim, Ali Ghufron aka Muklas/Mukhlas, and Abdul Aziz aka Imam Samudra aka Qudama were executed at Nusakambangan island prison, Cilacap, Central Java, some time after midnight on Sunday 9th November, for their roles in the 2002 Bali bombings.


92 Comments on “Amrozi Executed by Firing Squad”

  1. Alf Janszoon says:

    @ jami Not being a slave of the prophet of course they’re not my shaheed. I have only loathing for these dunces, people like Muhammad Atta. The Indonesian population is 90% muslim. The muslims are exhorted by the the prophet to become martyrs in the cause of Allah and receive their just reward in Janna the Great Brothel in the Sky.
    On page 229 of the sira you can find:

    The apostle used to sing it in the form
    There’s no life but the life of the next world.
    O God, have mercy on the muhajirin and the ansar.

    Source: The Life of Muhammad, a translation of Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah
    With introduction and notes by A. Guillaume
    Oxford University Press
    ISBN: 978-0-19-636033-1

  2. ET says:

    On behalf of those killed and maimed in the Bali bombings, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, whatever, those who sympathise here with the Islamist terrorists should undergo the same fate as vermin Amrozi, Muklas and Samudra. You want to die
    like mujahideens, killing innocent people who are unaware of what happens, even your own kind? I’ll be gladly of assistance. Dor, dor, dor. And the firing squad should be decorated.
    The world has had enough of your kind.

  3. djoko says:

    @ Alf

    The least you could do is properly read the thing you are quoting:

    The apostle used to sing it in the form
    There’s no life but the life of the next world.
    O God, have mercy on the muhajirin and the ansar.

    Muhajirin = those who emigrated (hijrah) from Mecca to Medina, escaping persecution at the hands of the Quraish tribe in Mecca.

    Ansar = The people in Medina (non-Muslims largely) who accepted, welcomed, and worked together with the Muslims in building and defending the city from Quraish supporters who were chasing and trying to harass Muslims there.

    Obviously you were under the impression that Muhajirin was mujahidin. Thank you though, because at least now everyone knows not to really take anything you say seriously, because if you have mixed up something relatively simple like that you’re probably not worth listening to anyway. At least most people who are looking to do the old Islam bash at least pick out relevant quotes first.

    Ultimately, and ironically, the bombers got a very Islamic punishment: execution for the crime of murder. Interesting how nobody seems to have picked up on that either.

  4. Alf Janszoon says:

    @ djoko I have been quoting the verse verbatim. I just want to point out that for this faith life in the hereafter is more important than this life. I could have left out the last sentence. Reading the sira was an eye opener for me. People were told that committing crimes for the benefit of the faith will give you an eternal place in a spot called janna, with plenty of wine, good food and countless damsels of paradise at your beck and call. No doubt the three are enjoying all these at this very moment. I do know the difference between muhajirun and mujahedin. Someone’s mujahedin are another man’s irhabi.
    I am not into Islam bashing. Ibn Ishaq did, al Bukahri did, al Tabari did, al Muslim did.
    Their execution is unislamic. The Banu Qurayza men were executed with the scimitar, not with the rifle. Chopping one’s head off or crucifixion was and is the Islamic way.

  5. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @ Yankee ignoramus aka Indonesia Visa Holder

    What else do an ex digger know other than taking order to shot and kill? Care to shed some light on this – Indon Chinese massacre funded by the CIA. This is only the tip of an iceberg.

  6. Peter says:

    Alf Janszoon said:

    I just want to point out that for this faith life in the hereafter is more important than this life.

    The same is true for the other two Abrahamic religions. I’m not sure what your point would be, then.

    Life in the hereafter, according to these faiths, is determined by one’s deeds in this life, in these very moments. Which behaviors are punishable and which are to be rewarded are generally laid out in the Qur’an. It is perhaps your own interpretation that indiscriminate violence against non-Muslims will lead to paradise, but the ummah does not support you. You’re more likely to find support in Orientalist circles.

    Personally I find a logic that guides actions with the simple motivation for pleasure in the afterlife to be wrongly guided. For those who are genuinely led to believe that al-jih?d al-asghar (the lesser jihad) includes killing non-combative citizens, perhaps they will get such a reward as they imagined for themselves; it is not my place to say. But I strongly feel that those of intellectual depth who goad others weaker than themselves into such heinous acts will surely get their own reward in the fires of hell. Allah knows best.

  7. Alf Janszoon says:

    @Peter The Hebrew religion had no concept of individual immortality. Yahweh had covenant with his chosen collective, the twelve tribes. Christianity had a promise of heaven, hell and much later purgatory, under the influence of Zoroastrism.
    Islam’s prophet used the promise of an afterlife to the extreme to incite his warriors to fight for him.

    Al Bukhari V4B53N386
    Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.”

    Sura 9 aya 38:
    YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.
    PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! What aileth you that when it is said unto you: Go forth in the way of Allah, ye are bowed down to the ground with heaviness. Take ye pleasure in the life of the world rather than in the Hereafter? The comfort of the life of the world is but little in the Hereafter.
    SHAKIR: O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah’s way, you should incline heavily to earth; are you contented with this world’s life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world’s life compared with the hereafter is but little.

    As for the lesser jihad, it was the activity leading to an empire from Morocco to India. I haven’t seen much of the greater jihad (inner struggle for spiritual perfection) in the writings.

  8. Peter says:

    Alf Janszoon,

    The body of Islamic tradition contains a great number of statements and imperatives often seemingly at odds with each other. As you might know, the Qur’an was revealed piecemeal over a long period of time, often in response to particular situations that Muhammad and his fellow Muslims were facing. A good example of this is the directive allowing men to marry up to four women following a costly battle which left much of the Muslim women widowed and destitute.

    Unfortunately, a-historical readings of a very historically rooted text persist, and are probably the norm today. Because of the progressive development of the Qur’an, there are many verses which seem to completely contradict each other. This is perhaps both its genius and greatest shortcoming. I don’t need to reply to your quoted hadith and verse with dozens more which totally oppose its spirit. For that you might look at some of Muhammad Khafi’s old posts, while you’re here. He seems more well-read than myself on this issue.

    The crucial issue, therefore, is one of interpretation. By the way, have you ever practiced Islam, my friend? At any rate, your narrow interpretation of Islam is not shared by the vast majority of the world’s Muslim population. I understand that the idiots usually scream the loudest, but we must use the critical thinking and reasoning that they lack in order to see things clearly. Otherwise we develop a distorted, bipolar worldview. Try to step back and transcend the habit of gathering “evidence” for a conclusion already made.

    salam

  9. Alf Janszoon says:

    @ Peter
    Have I ever practised Islam? No dear sir. I was raised as a catholic. Now I think that I am a humanist an agnostic. I fully agree with Ludwig Feuerbach when he stated that god didn’t create man, but that men created god. I can never be a Muslim. With all due respect; I cannot adhere to a religion, invented by a warlord, a slaver, a mass murderer, a rapist, a man who condoned the all too cruel murder of Umm Qirfa Fatima, a very old woman, for instance. You use the magic word “interpretation”. Many sentences in your holy writs don’t need interpretation. Take this sentence from the Sira:

    The apostle said, Kill any Jew that falls into your power. (Sira, page 369).

    Me think this sentence doesn’t need any interpretation. It just said that muslims must kill Jews. There are many unequivocal sentences in the Islam writings.
    I have read Ibn Warraq’s book “Why I am not a Muslim.” I agree 100% with him.
    Reading your holy writings destroyed in me any appetite for the Islamic religion.

  10. muhammad ali says:

    Well to some philosophical views, the three Bali bombers have actually reached the height of life – freedom of fear.

    Fear is the most fundemental human instinct, and overcoming it is supreme freedom. This is what a lot of people have been seeking for. You see all those bungy jumping, parachuters, and other extreme gamers; Amrozi is one step ahead away from all them as you can see that big smile on his face even to his last minutes facing death.

    But forget about the three Bali Bombers as it is very clear that Andrew and any one of you can not have any say whether they have or have not met their 70 angles. Its better to reflect upon oneself; what have you done to prepare for your death?

    The hadith has it:
    An asker trying to test the Prophet (pbuh) asked him, ” When is the hour, if you are a man of God?” The Prophet (pbuh) merely replied, “What have you done to prepare for the hour?”

    To the least, the three bombers are also way ahead of any of you. Can any of you – on your death – put on a smiley face? Seriously, can you? Or will you be screaming your lungs out?

    This is how Allah is asking us this same rhetoric question and at the same time explaining to us the conditions of you (the kafirs’ death):

    [047:027] Then how (will it be) when the angels will take their souls at death, smiting their faces and their backs?
    [047:028] That is because they followed that which angered Allâh and hated that which pleased Him. So, He made their deeds fruitless.

    And Allah knows best…

  11. taxpayer says:

    @Aluang Anak Bayang

    I remind you that the CIA provided some communist names to the Soeharto regime. Soeharto pulled the trigger.

    I am curious though….your link sent me to a Socialist/Communist magazine. Are your a communist?

    If your only point of reference to defend your somewhat unfocused opinion is 1 magazine that is obviously slanted to the extreme left, than I understand completely why your worldly views of past and present historical events are so misled.

    Why don’t Indonesian history books talk about this event? American history books mention it. Why don’t you put your efforts to clarify history correctly by posing these questions to your own government? Or are you just an armchair blogger?

    Yesterdays Jakarta Post in reporting on the G20 meeting in Washington quoted your President as in support of Barack Obama and how his election will hopefully improve U.S./Indonesian relations. He went on to discuss Obama having gone to school here and the fact that Obama understands Indonesian people, culture and speaks the language. (OBAMA DOES NOT SPEAK INDONESIAN)

    When your own government leadership cannot get facts correct or link the relationships between events, it’s absolutely no wonder Indonesians cannot do the same.

    The Bali Bombers are murderers and any attempt to deflect the responsibility of their actions is weak.

    I reiterate, Indonesia’s problems are the direct result of Indonesia’s decision-making and Indonesia’s lack of action. Only the naive spend hours doing Google searches to find well-known information in order to deflect the attention of their own short-comings.

    I eagerly await any intelligent debate on your solutions to Indonesia’s issues. Until you can provide some, your rhetoric will continue to fall on deaf ears.

  12. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @ Indonesia Visa Holder

    @Aluang Anak Bayang

    I remind you that the CIA provided some communist names to the Soeharto regime. Soeharto pulled the trigger.

    Is that all? US$10M rings a bell? Or as most ignorant americans, you didn’t even know about that? How angelic! What about those bio weapons they subsidised to poison Iranians and the kurds? Not to mention agent orange used in Vietnam. What were they doing in someone else’s country?

    The chinese may be in denial as it is impossible for them to comprehend their idol whiteys would pay and coered someone to kill them. Unlike Javanese, we can forgive nut we do not forget.

    I am curious though….your link sent me to a Socialist/Communist magazine. Are your a communist?

    Are you indoctrinated to fear communists and communism? Your mindset is just like an islamist, indoctrinated to kill all jews.

    What if I am a communist? Does that makes my argument invalid?

    If your only point of reference to defend your somewhat unfocused opinion is 1 magazine that is obviously slanted to the extreme left, than I understand completely why your worldly views of past and present historical events are so misled.

    Lokks who is talking. You go do your own research and come back and tell me if I am wrong. I do not want to babysit you for what you can get online.

    Why don’t Indonesian history books talk about this event? American history books mention it. Why don’t you put your efforts to clarify history correctly by posing these questions to your own government? Or are you just an armchair blogger?

    If American history had mentioned it, you do not seem to be aware of it by your postings. An armchair blogger? I have served my country and we were made aware of who the instigators and who our real enemies are.

    Yesterdays Jakarta Post in reporting on the G20 meeting in Washington quoted your President as in support of Barack Obama and how his election will hopefully improve U.S./Indonesian relations. He went on to discuss Obama having gone to school here and the fact that Obama understands Indonesian people, culture and speaks the language. (OBAMA DOES NOT SPEAK INDONESIAN)

    The fact our president said that with confident was that he knew Obama must had a pleasant childhhood among Javanese kids who do not discriminate against blackies. We have whiteys trying to paint Obama as having a tumultuous upbringings and being bullied in school while in Indonesia. They went on to say that Javanese looked down on people with darker skin. They must have mistaken Indon Chinese for Javanese. If he had been among chinese kids, he would still be having nightmare being called all sort of names. And YES, Obama understands Indonesian people, culture and speaks the language. Maybe not speak the language fully but he probably knew a few swearing words like “ngentuk banget wong bules“.

    When your own government leadership cannot get facts correct or link the relationships between events, it’s absolutely no wonder Indonesians cannot do the same.

    You are talking out of your rear.

    The Bali Bombers are murderers and any attempt to deflect the responsibility of their actions is weak.

    Yes they were murderers and deserved what they got. But as the saying goes, “There is rarely smoke without fire.”

    I reiterate, Indonesia’s problems are the direct result of Indonesia’s decision-making and Indonesia’s lack of action. Only the naive spend hours doing Google searches to find well-known information in order to deflect the attention of their own short-comings.
    I eagerly await any intelligent debate on your solutions to Indonesia’s issues. Until you can provide some, your rhetoric will continue to fall on deaf ears.

    Spare me the rants. Go look yourself in the mirror.

  13. Andy says:

    I dare say the Indonesians who post here are of a privelidged position and wouldn’t like to spend one minute under a communist regime. I don’t know of any Indonesians myself who didn’t want Suharto to take over in 1965 and most were glad the bloodshed happened because as muslims, communists are their greatest enemy, far surpassing anyone in the west.

    In the Philippines it goes even further. The gentleman who wrote the article AAB gave us would be in a very small minority over there. The americans rate far higher there than they do in other western countries as they were never better at any time in their history than under their leadership. They also gave the filipinos independence by choice and no shots were fired. Remember Macarthur was a hero there during WW2. I have many filipino friends and their biggest regret was not becoming a state like Alaska and Hawaii or a territory like Puerto Rico. I was also there in 2003 when Saddam’s statue fell and there was dancing and cheering in the street. Nothing like this happened in Europe or Australia.

  14. Peter says:

    Alf Janzsoon,

    I understand your trepidation, but really as someone raised Catholic you ought to at least be somewhat familiar with the sort of scourging hatred found in many of the Bible’s verses.

    In case you’ve forgotten, here’s an entertaining list: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html

    But both of us know that this slim selection of verses does not embody how most Christians lead their lives and practice their faith. You, coming from a Catholic background, should know better than to go nitpicking at texts (especially, in Islam’s case, those outside the universally accepted body (i.e. Qur’an and “reliable” Hadiths)) to try to characterize someone’s religion.

  15. Geordie says:

    MA asked the following:

    To the least, the three bombers are also way ahead of any of you. Can any of you – on your death – put on a smiley face? Seriously, can you? Or will you be screaming your lungs out?

    One question if I may, are you saying you believe that the bombers are ahead of me because of the act or because they believed the act conforms to the principles of Jihad?

    As for my death and how I meet it rather depends on the manner of my passing, does it not? A massive brain embolism, whilst in the thoes of making love, might indeed mean I die ‘screaming my lungs out’ but I’m pretty sure there’d be a smile on my face too; in that context, the two are not mutually exclusive.

    Obviously I’m being facetious and I do understand where you’re going with your rehetorical questions. That said, it depends if death is viewed as the pathway to another life, be that ‘good’ or ‘bad’ or simply a time when the matter that once made me goes off and becomes something else for a while. A more sobering thought, though I don’t know why it should be, is what was the matter, that now contributes to this ‘self’ I call ‘me’, before? Pondering that, however, is about as relevant as trying to scry the manner and moment of my death.

    Turning back to my question, do you condone or condemn the act?

  16. kinch says:

    Pretty suspiciously philosophical for a Geordie too! Have they started fortifying the beer and deep fried pizzas with something I don’t know about? 🙂

    I don’t feel worthy to intrude here and shall leave you all to your eschatological ecstasies.

  17. Geordie says:

    @Kinch

    Ah man, ya hafta blame wor lass for uz gannin’ off at tha mooth like that! Sha’s a reet scholar (an’ an Indaneeshun an’ aal, ya knaa) aboot all that stuff an’ ah’ve lorn’t it as weel, torn’d into a reet gobshite ah have.

  18. kinch says:

    I’m in awe. I have no comeback to that. The Kinch is gobsmacked.

  19. ET says:

    muhammad ali said

    Amrozi is one step ahead away from all them as you can see that big smile on his face even to his last minutes facing death.

    To the least, the three bombers are also way ahead of any of you. Can any of you – on your death – put on a smiley face? Seriously, can you? Or will you be screaming your lungs out?

    No, no, no… You are a complete ignoramus.

    I don’t know what part of the world you come from but you certainly don’t read indonesian newspapers. Amrozi had to be dragged to his execution and before he was shot there wasn’t any sound of takbir (allahu akbar) coming from his lips. Every single detail proved that he died like a coward and a ragdoll; the pathologists had to sew up his back completely because at the moment of execution there was no muscle tension left in his entire body.

    There goes your arsehole hero.

  20. Geordie says:

    I don’t know what part of the world you come from but you certainly don’t read indonesian newspapers. Amrozi had to be dragged to his execution and before he was shot there wasn’t any sound of takbir (allahu akbar) coming from his lips. Every single detail proved that he died like a coward and a ragdoll; the pathologists had to sew up his back completely because at the moment of execution there was no muscle tension left in his entire body.

    ET, I find it hard to believe that anyone facing a firing squad would be awfully brave, pretty certain I’d be crying like a girl knowing I was going to certain death though, indeed, all death is certain in the final analysis I guess. Not that I’m about to suggest that Amrozi didn’t shuffle off this mortal coil on his knees and entirely emasculated but it does rather suit the purpose of the powers that be to ensure that even one so ostensibly committed to the establishment of a caliphate, had his doubts in the end.

    Conversely, had he bravely strode to the stake, declined the blindfold, nonchalantly smoked his last kretek whilst absolving the firing squad of responsibility for killing him, would that have been so reported? Again, impossible to know and beyond my penchant for appearing worldly and cynical, pretty pointless speculation.

    Ultimately, in my opinion, what matters is what are we left with? Two hundred and two people killed in the bombings and three people brought to book; not really an ‘eye for an eye’ in my view but then again, I don’t hold with that anachronism anyway. Did Amrozi and co. take it like men? Did they snivell and beg for mercy? Frankly I couldn’t care less and my question for MA – the crux of the matter on which he has remained silent so far – is does he condone or condemn the act that resulted in the death of 202 people?

  21. Geordie says:

    I’m in awe. I have no comeback to that. The Kinch is gobsmacked.

    Please don’t be, I just thought you might need a little proof that I’m not a faux-Geordie. (note to self: Geordies do not typically use the word faux.)

    Though I do have to say, I’ve never eaten deep fried pizza in my life though I do recall trying a battered, deep fried cholesterol overdose thing called a chop-suey roll. Imagine a thing four, maybe five, times the size of a spring roll but instead of thin wonton like wrapper, think more along the lines of a pitta bread and you’ll get the idea, then you dip it in batter, then you fry it.

    Add to that at least one kg of chips and you’ve got the start of a top night out on Ocean Road (demonstrates an intimate knowledge of South Shields but in no way indicates that I’m a Sand-dancer). Clearly the grease provides a protective coating for the stomach and allows for the getting on the outside of indiscreet amounts of snakebite without throwing up at an indecently early or inopportune point of the evening. Form dictates that the first oral evacuation of stomach contents should not take place until at least on has made it into the Chelsea Cat.

  22. Alf Janszoon says:

    @ Peter
    As a small boy I did not have the choice of being a catholic or not, having a catholic father. Later on I use my common sense and leave the faith. I am not a catholic anymore. Catholicism is to me a load of superstition like any other religion so the “tu quoque” argument doesn’t bite with me.
    In my argumentative discourse I always quote thr Qur’an, the Sirat Rasul Allah, the sahih Bukhari, sahih Muslim, Sunan abu Daud, the Tarikh al-Rusul wa’l muluk by Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, or The Reliance of the Traveller: The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law ‘Umdat Al-Salik. Are these works reliable enough for tou?
    Rest assure: I will not quote from the Maha Bharata or the Bharata Yudha, the Zend Avesta, The Book of Arda Viraf, The Bundahish or Bahman Yasht for that matter. These are Hindu and Zoroastrian texts, as you well know.
    In Islamic matters I only quote “reliable Islamic texts” and I will continue to do so.

  23. ET says:

    ET, I find it hard to believe that anyone facing a firing squad would be awfully brave, pretty certain I’d be crying like a girl knowing I was going to certain death though, indeed, all death is certain in the final analysis I guess.

    Geordie, somebody just had to put Amrozi’s fanclub back in line to restore the honour of the 202 victims who had nothing to do with it.

  24. Peter says:

    Alf Janzsoon,

    I wonder if you might, knowing the shared abundance of wrathful, megalomaniacal, and often bigoted sentiment found in the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic, consider whether the violence and destruction committed by some in the name of God today has deeper roots than the words of scripture. I think you may be confusing correlation with causation – a mistake we all are vulnerable to in our never-ending quest to orderly categorize and understand the content of our lives.

    Muhammad Ali,

    On the issue of suicide bombers being brave – this is ridiculous. Such people are not really brave. They have little courage, deluded by hate and selfishness. The truly brave ones are the people they leave behind, those who are forced to live on and endure the hardship of a family member’s loss (bomber or victim), psychologically and financially. These terrorists have so little courage that they can’t even face the world and live their lives. They sneak around society targeting defenseless men, women, and children who cannot even identify them. You call this fearlessness? You call this courage? Courage is facing life, having faith in God, and working through adversity. Living through the Great Depression or Asian economic crisis took courage. Taking part in the Salt March with Gandhi took courage. Facing apartheid in South Africa took courage. Surviving the Holocaust took courage. Resisting the Dutch took courage. Standing up for democracy in Burma takes courage. And you want to talk about strapping a bomb on yourself and snaking into a crowd of unsuspecting civilians? That is madness. That is a cowardly cop-out, a wholesale destruction of God’s most precious and sacred creation – life. I suppose by your measure, shooting oneself in the head with a pistol shows courage and “freedom from fear.” To really understand “freedom from fear”, study the life of someone like Aung San Suu Kyi.

  25. Peter says:

    * Jewish, Christian, and Islamic canons

  26. Geordie says:

    ET said the following:

    Geordie, somebody just had to put Amrozi’s fanclub back in line to restore the honour of the 202 victims who had nothing to do with it.

    The nobility of the victims of the bombings will not be affected by anything you, I or indeed anyone else has to say either about them or the people responsible for their deaths. The actions of those who men and women who strove to help the dying and wounded, irrespective of creed, race or colour, bespeaks an honour and selflessness that is beyond anyone’s ability to tarnish.

    That said, I’m still waiting for MA to say that he either condemns or condones the bombings as I felt there was a little wriggle room in his stement. I think I can infer, from the tone he emplyed, where he stands on that question but I prefer not guess. True, he isn’t compelled to answer me or indeed anyone else though if he does actually condone the bombings then I for one would like to understand why.

  27. Alf Janszoon says:

    These three Indonesian muminin are true representatives of the True Islam.

    SahihBukhari
    Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.” Abu Huraira added: Allah’s Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

  28. ET says:

    Geordie

    True, he isn’t compelled to answer me or indeed anyone else though if he does actually condone the bombings then I for one would like to understand why.

    I think Alf Janszoon already answered your question. If you want to understand don’t ask Muhammad Ali but read the koran and the hadith. Very revealing, believe me.

  29. Peter says:

    Alf Janzsoon,

    The history of Islam in Southeast Asia completely flies in the face of your thesis, but facts be damned, you’ve made up your mind. Your warped view contributes nothing constructive to the current discourse; it serves only to polarize and perpetuate distrust and intolerance.

    I wouldn’t deny that a certain backwardness permeates parts of the Muslim world, but to assert that this is simply a quintessential part of the faith and to pretend that Arab cultural traits, political history and colonialism are not integral to understanding the current situation is foolish.

    And how, pray tell, would you defend the assertion that your quoted hadith embodies the “true spirit” of Islam, when the overwhelming majority of practicing Muslims disagrees with you? Because you said so? Because your centuries-old quote contains an arabic word translated into English as the word “terror”? lol

  30. Geordie says:

    Alf Janszoon, in a question posed to MA, said the following (assuming that this post is indeed in answer to my preceeding post): –

    These three Indonesian muminin are true representatives of the True Islam.

    Alf, I didn’t actually ask whether they were true representatives of the True Islam and, in context, your answer answer only indicates that their actions are in concordance with what you perceive Islam to be truely like. I could read your answer as a damning idictment of Islam and that the bombers are archetypical Muslims, on the other hand your answer could be read to mean the opposite just as easily, in that, the bombers were exemplary in their conduct.

    Even including the haddith does not clarify your position, in my view.That’s the problem with providing vague answers (if answer it was), it depends on how the words are perceived by the reader, both Peter and ET are clear that you condone the bombings.

    I will therefore pose the same question to you as I did to MA, do you condemn or condone the bombings?

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