Yoga Exercises, Halal or Haram
Nov 26th, 2008, in News, by Patung
Muslim yoga enthusiasts are asked to suspend their yoga activities while the MUI examines whether it is haram.
Last week Malaysia’s highest Islamic clerical authority, the Dewan Fatwa Nasional Malaysia (NFC), issued a fatwa condemning the practice of yoga as haram for Muslims, saying that it constituted a form of Hindu religious practice.
The Dewan Fatwa’s counterpart in Indonesia, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), is currently examining whether to issue a similar ruling against yoga.
MUI headman Maruf Amin said that while the MUI mulls the issue, Muslims should keep away from yoga meditation. In the event that a fatwa were issued against yoga, he said, practising yoga remained a right of Indonesians, while the MUI’s job was simply to advise Muslims on what is the right thing to do. okezone okezone
Sore necked Maruf.
Another MUI leader, the fairly liberal Umar Shihab, said however that yoga practice as a form of exercise or fitness training was no problem. detik
Yoga Defender
Indrayana, an instructor from “Yoga Ananda Marga Indonesia”, says she is unconcerned about the issue, considering that Indonesia has a different culture from Malaysia. If yoga were banned, she said her organisation would bring yoga devotees out onto the streets, smiling all the while suaramerdeka
We will hold a smiling demo, those who oppose yoga will be defeated by our smiles.
88 Comments on “Yoga Exercises, Halal or Haram”
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Gunung Batu says:
One of the problem is that someone, we don’t know who, asked for a fatwa for Yoga, while no one has asked fatwa about Mr. Puji phaedophilic behaviour. I’m curious what would MUI say about Mr. Puji-Ulfah marriage. Will it be considered halal because Muhammad gave example marrying 9 years old girl?
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Geordie says:
AJ and GB:
Think you’re a bit off topic, no? I think the question posed is simple enough and whether or not the other things you mention don’t have a lot of bearing on whether yoga is permitted or not. I am not, in any way, shape or form, condoning the acts you mention in your respective posts but, typically what happens is that we end up in a slanging match.
I, for one, think I can benefit from getting a better understanding of the thought process that goes preceeds the edict of whether a thing is permitted or not.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ Barry Prima
I see that you are still reeling from a bruised ego by FMF from another thread. How English! The sulking and whining race.
@ All
Yoga is halal for all Javanese.
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Barry prima says:
Assalamualaikum Mbak Moon flower.
It might help if you actually read peoples statements carefully before hurling.
You did not read my statements, nor know my personal background before first attacking me for not knowing the dynamic of what being Javanese is.
First of all have I ever called anyone on IM a kaafir? No never, esp not you!
The word kaafir has a wide semantic range, in its most elementary meaning it means to be not of god, which is a metaphysical impossibility. A lesser meaning is one who has not only consciously rejected the truth, but then become a calculating enemy of it.
On the one hand it is impossible to be a kaafir, on the other hand we all have an element of kufur within us! Even the nabi Muhammad has a Satan with him, but his Satan submitted to him.
So I would be very reluctant to call anyone a kaffir, whether they claim to be within the fold of Islam or not. A Muslim in the most elementary sense of the word is one who has submitted to god/reality within him, regardless of formal religious adherence.
I inferred from some of your statement that you were no longer a Muslim, especially keen as you have shown yourself to be in attacking other Muslims and pointing out their hypocrisy as you see it.For example:
To most Javanese, Islam remains an Arab religion
why Islam was, is and will remain half-baked in Indonesia.I for one do not deny my own capacity for hypocrisy, that’s why i will support any Muslim (on non Muslim for that matter) who is trying their best and looking at their intentions rather than shouting foul, hypocrite. That’s just weak and egoistical, hiding behind a deluded sense of self righteousness.
The most hypocritical act is to continually pick out others perceive hypocrisy. Instead of focusing on yourself and trying to understand the motives and of your fellow Muslims, imperfect as they are. You are siding with trendy western ideas and sensibilities which you obviously do not know the true meaning or implications of .There’s always people who think that they are holier than thou. This is why sometimes I am considering of abandoning religion altogether
It would be a shame if you left Islam because of what other people do? If you leave A religion for such superficial reasons, maybe you never really believed? Seeing the weakness of other people, should motivate you to look deeper into yourself and religion. If you abandon religion, the loss will be yours no one else’s arguably.
Furthermore my attack is not holier than thou if you actually bothered to try and understand what i wrote, it is what called debate. I am not the one who made holier than thou judgments such as `For an Islamized white man, Javanese sees you as a traitor to your own kind.’
munafik “jilbaber”, and munafik bearded men
I do not care very much for jilbab, that is very much a woman’s personal decision as far as I’m concerned. A man doesn’t become a saint if he has a beard and why would you expect him to be? He is fulfilling what he feels is a sunnah out of love for the prophets, what he does apart from that has nothing to do with his jangut!
`Let he who is without sin cast the first stone’
Sorry if I upset you moon, and I certainly don’t want to spend my time here arguing with other Muslims, but I hope you can try and show some solutions to the problems of Indonesia/Islam rather than just finger pointing.I see that you are still reeling from a bruised ego by FMF from another thread. How English! The sulking and whining race.
On the contrary, all I hear is full moons howling persistently munafik, hypocrite at other muslims, without a well out reason for doing so, I am not the one who is whining.
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Ikram says:
Alf,
All those are haram. People just do it. Not everyone is perfect. Religion can be perfect but we humans are stupid. And Peter, I believe quran is perfect cause its from Allah, passed down by the angel Jibrail to Muhammad.
It is our fault as human, who are lazy, and easily swayed to the ‘much easier path’ to ignore it at times, or not read it enough.
But quran doesn’t have Every answer under the sun. Yes, god asks us to go seek the truth or whatever knowledge he has for us on this earth. (Yeah, you won’t find e=mc2 in there man.)
The quran I believe has almost zero human error in COMPILING it. Khalidah Usman knew the ones who recite the quran was dwindling and before it gets lost, called for all of them and compiled it.
Human error will come in translating it. It’s not an easy book. Always referring as a third person.
But we always have the sunnah and hadis to guide muslims. Insyallah 😀
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tresya bedkowska says:
I was guessing, that if I open this site, I’ll find the issue ‘yoga banning’.
I’m a javanese with a strong root islamic family who turned into a yoga teacher ( I am not sad of loosing a field of work, neither willing to demonstrate to gain it back:) .
The only thing that muslims in Indonesia don’t do is ‘questioning the islam’ it self. Oh yes, better be not, because then it will be considered ‘haram’.Further, I’m expecting that people (muslims) are wiser in justifying it personally. But if A political party seeks a support to ban it means provoking it, then, quisera-sera.
Ow! one more thing, Joseph Pilates Won the game. He squeezed some ‘classical yoga poses’, engineered it and compacted it into his formula and named it “pilates” will gain more anthusiats in the near future. A yoga teacher then, for a pragmatical concern, will have to ‘bend’ their back to teach pilates as well.
Yoga and ‘abrahamics religions’ are the most FAQ in my history teaching yoga, there in Indonesia n here in Poland. Churches speak louder since long time ago. But then, Islam ( a bit ‘telmi’ or slowly realizing or being critical) come up with the issue.
If church then conceptualize the ‘christian yoga’, will islam conceptualize the same thing?
With less rigid organization, Islam has no reason to be worried as the ‘others’ do.
My vision about the muslims In Indonesia and yoga practice finally come true.
The people ‘questioning yoga’( which means end of my carrier?).There will be always people out there, addicted and badly needed it (yoga) which frees them from fear and increase the sense of peacefulness inside them.
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First, halal and haram got nothing to do with MUI, not even to God or Allah. Halal is what you think is halal, and haram is what you think is haram.
So I think Yoga is halal. Changing religion is halal. Leaving Islam is halal. Being an atheist is halal. As long as you think what you choose is the best for you and the rest of the world.
I mean, that’s what Islam teaches me. A kind of Islam with a very loving God, a kind of God that chooses not to be exist. Not FPI or MUI’s God who is afraid of human mind. A God which is treated by its ummah like a berhala.
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diego says:
Hi Gunung Batu,
What you said sounds nice. But, they — people like Amrozi — can use that as well to justify their act:
– jihad is best for them (if they succeed they’ll get big reward, and even if they die, they’ll get big reward as well, for being a martyr).
– jihat is best for the rest of the world (everybody will be submit to their version of islam, and will go to heaven) -
fullmoonflower says:
Wa’alaikum salaam warahmatullaahi wabarakaatuh…
Mr. Barry,
To most Javanese, Islam remains an Arab religion as Christian is to the Bule.
Yes, I wrote that in thread “Fitna”. And actually, that’s true from Javanese kejawen’s sight. Sorry if I’ve offended you as you were talking so bad. You looked so arrogant on that way.
all I hear is full moons howling persistently munafik, hypocrite
Only Allah and me know who I really am, a munafik one, or a hipocrite one, or anything else… but not you, because you are not God… hehehe 😆
Well, maybe you have much time to read books, but I am too busy to read any books, so all of my opinions and stories in any threads are based on my experiences, and true story.
You can read my story about a munafik jilbaber in thread : “Single Mother in Yogya”, (and there are so many same stories from the other posters after that). These are 2 of my stories I told :Well, as my experience, I found that being a hard core muslim is not a guarantee for his or her moral…
My parent is a public figure, and religious, but I never wear jilbab. It’s reaped some critics from some hard core islam fundamentalist students group. But I didn’t care. As long I didn’t do something immoral, I thought it’s just fine.
When I was teenager, me and my brother liked to join my kampung’s youth to do ronda on weekend, after my boyfriend back from visiting me. One day, we got a big catch! A girl, who was very hard talking about my jilbab, was caught did something immoral in the darkness of Lapangan Lembah UGM with her boyfriend, and they used her jilbab as mattress…!!! We caught them and brought them to pak RT’s home, and the pak RT was also my father…
One of my mother’s friends, she was a figure in one women muslim organization, her daughter was a member of islam fundamentalist students group, she always wear black wide jilbab and black loose dress everywhere, sometime she wear cadar (veil) also.
One day, the mother came to my home, crying to my mom. She found her daughter was pregnant without a husband, and the pregnancy had been for 5 months. The boy was the daughter’s friend in her group, who always pick her for majlis ta’lim. They got married 1 month later, and 3 months after the wedding, their son was born.Mr. Barry.. all of them are real !!
and in thread “Insiden Monas” :
Kembali kepada FPI.
Jujur, saya sebenarnya cuek saja dengan keberadaan kelompok ini, selama kelompok ini tidak “menyenggol” saya. Bahkan adik saya juga pernah bergabung dengan FPI yang di Yogya ketika dia sedang memerangi ajarannya si Mosadeq yang saat itu menimpa salah satu anak kost di rumah ortu. Hal ini dia lakukan karena saat itu dia sudah terdesak oleh para pengikut Mosadeq, yang ternyata sangat banyak dan terorganisir, sementara dia berjuang hanya dengan beberapa pemuda saja yang concern dengan nasib temannya itu.
Tapi kini saya menjadi tidak simpatik. Ketika suatu malam, ba’da Isya saya pulang lembur dari kantor, satu hari sebelum Insiden Monas, saya menyetir sendiri. Kebetulan saya akan mampir ke kost adik saya yang di Condet. Di Jalan Kayu Manis saya berpapasan dengan 6 pemuda berboncengan dengan sepeda motor, berseragam FPI, dan salah satu membawa bendera.
Jalanan di Jalan Kayu Manis sempit, hanya cukup untuk 2 mobil dan berbatasan dengan jurang kali Ciliwung. Saya sudah mepet ke sebelah kiri jalan, bahkan sudah mepet ke jurang, karena mereka berenam mengambil jalan di tengah-tengah. Jalan seluas itu sepertinya ingin mereka kuasai sendiri. Melihat saya sudah mepet, rupanya masih belum puas mereka dengan lebar jalan yang saya berikan yang notabene sebenarnya cukup untuk lewat sebuah truk sedangkan mereka hanya mengendarai motor.
Kaca mobil saya nyaris dihantam oleh salah satu yang membawa bendera, sambil berteriak : “Minggir! Kasih jalan untuk mujahid!”.Minggir kemana???? Minggir masuk jurang??? Arogan sekali…
Astaghfirullah. Inikah adab pemuda Islam yang mengaku sebagai mujahid?
and now you say :
but I hope you can try and show some solutions to the problems of Indonesia/Islam rather than just finger pointing.
What can I do to change their ATTITUDE??
For me, the solution is in their own hand, being a SANTUN and MORALIST or being an opposite, are THEIR OWN CHOICE.Can you change their attitude both in front of you or behind you? If you can, 2 thumbs for you then…
Anyway, all I can do is : helping people who needed helps.
Maybe I am not a good speaker as good as an ustadzah, maybe people think that I am a munafikin just because I have a different opinion, maybe I am not a good muslimah as good as you wives…
But at least when people in sorrow, they know to whom they can ask for help…
I ever wrote about my plan in future to help people around in thread “Single Mother in Yogya”. Maybe it’s not a big plan, but at least I have a plan…. -
hmmm… by the way :
I inferred from some of your statement that you were no longer a Muslim
are you God or something? 8)
only God may say that I am a muslim or not… not a human…
No human is perfect… not me, not even you…I am just a hamba Allah….. but maybe you think that you are not a hamba Allah so you may judge another muslim as not a muslim…hehehe 😉
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back to Yoga…
I am agree to Pak Umar Shihab. He said :
however that yoga practice as a form of exercise or fitness training was no problem
Yoga is an exercise for respiration. It’s almost the same as Silat Tenaga Dalam or Tenaga Prana.
Mystic? Not only Yoga. Silat Tenaga Dalam and Tenaga Prana also.@ All
Have you ever heard that a Master of (islamic) silat tenaga dalam can talk to genie??
I think it is not a surprise anymore 😉 -
Hi Barry Prima,
It would be a shame if you left Islam because of what other people do? If you leave A religion for such superficial reasons, maybe you never really believed? Seeing the weakness of other people, should motivate you to look deeper into yourself and religion. If you abandon religion, the loss will be yours no one else’s arguably.
Unfortunately some religions are looking more and more superficials, especially in Indonesia. I cannot avoid using the term “hypocricy” as there’s no other term to describe the act of some people.
I am not saying that I have left any religion (I never said that I am a Moslem). I practice my religion the way I see fit, and as long as I don’t disturb others then please don’t judge the way I act.
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Hi fullmoonflower,
Yes… I guess because Mr. Barry ever read my statement that I am not wearing jilbab, and he read my opinions against FPI, munafik “jilbaber”, and munafik bearded men at another threads, based on my experience….
Maybe that’s why he thought that I am not a muslim as well… hahaha…What a narrow sight…
That is why I am saying that some religions have become more superficial. To be honest I am sad to see people showing off their religious symbol so others can see that they are religious.
Wearing jilbab to be seen as pious, wearing a cross to be seen as a devout Christians, etc.
Not that wearing these are wrong, but there are some who wear them for the wrong reasons.
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Tresya Bedkowska:
Great post…you should seriously offer your opinion/expertise to MUI, you are the perfect person to comment on this issue.
are you God or something?
If I infer something I am not playing god, it is a rational observation, again you are being rash and over protective.
Also I used the word non muslim in generic/social sense, not a spiritual sense as of course I cannot judge you inner condition and never did.I am agree to Pak Umar Shihab. He said :
however that yoga practice as a form of exercise or fitness training was no problemCuk said pretty much the same thing, but you disagreed with him, you said yoga halal.and mui was stupid, but their words were very sensible, as they did not want to comment without expert knowledge, as offered by tresya, again look before you leap tiger.
Well, maybe you have much time to read books, but I am too busy to read any books
Books are quite useful you know and I do have lot of time to read them right now and post here as I’m a student again, but understanding of Islam comes by practising it, and being hamba Allah as you said so my understanding is from practise not theory, theory helps me to articualte what I know better.
What can I do to change their ATTITUDE??
Understand them not judge them and call them hypocrite, if you think you are not hypocrite, you have not met your real test from Allah. Allah does not mind hypocrisy too much, it is pretending you are not a hypocrite sinner that is worst to him, when you see evil you should not hate the person who does evil but the act, as the capacity to do the same evil/hypocrisy also exist within you and will become real if your life situation changes.
I practice my religion the way I see fit, and as long as I don’t disturb others then please don’t judge the way I act.
Who is judging who? God you indonesian gals are so defensive (don’t take that so seriously either ..please!)
Anyway Sallaams to you both, I hope we understand each other a little better after this.
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@ Barry Prima
On the contrary, all I hear is full moons howling persistently munafik, hypocrite at other muslims, without a well out reason for doing so, I am not the one who is whining.
The policy makers, the ruling class, the military, majority Javanese, be they moslem or not, consider religion secondary which I believe was FMF’s response. Didn’t your learned Javanese guru tell you this? I may or may not agree with PN, FMF or other Javanese on other issues, but when it comes to national security, we do not compromise. All undesirables Arabs and Bule newly converts, traitor to his own countrymen, are tagged the moment they land on our shore. A highly sought after Bule cum moslem is an illusion. Only the Blok M and Dolly type yearn for Bule to take them out of their misery because it is unfortunate in our society they are stigmatised. However if given a choice, they would prefer their own people.
You are welcomed as what other Bule guests do – take a pick of our petite good looking chick at Blok M, marry them off to your country for a better life. They are all above station and have class better than your land dugong back home. You will be wetting your pant messing with our politics instead of being a good tourist.
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Barry Prima,
Who is judging who? God you indonesian gals are so defensive (don’t take that so seriously either ..please!)
I think you need to learn how to read and tell the difference between comments made by different people.
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@ Barry
FMF says : Jalan seluas itu sepertinya ingin mereka kuasai sendiri. Melihat saya sudah mepet, rupanya masih belum puas mereka dengan lebar jalan yang saya berikan yang notabene sebenarnya cukup untuk lewat sebuah truk sedangkan mereka hanya mengendarai motor.
Kaca mobil saya nyaris dihantam oleh salah satu yang membawa bendera, sambil berteriak : “Minggir! Kasih jalan untuk mujahid!”.Barry says : Understand them not judge them and call them hypocrite
Understand them even they force you and your car to jump into the gulch of Kali Ciliwung???? Just because they mentioned they are mujahid, and need more wide track for their 3 motorcycles, wider than a truck track???? 😯
Allah does not mind hypocrisy too much, it is pretending you are not a hypocrite sinner that is worst to him, when you see evil you should not hate the person who does evil but the act, as the capacity to do the same evil/hypocrisy also exist within you and will become real if your life situation changes.
Allah loves me. I know that. That’s why my life is beautiful.
I have good career, I have a lovely extended family, I have a lots of friends from any religions, friends from any level (from the high society until poor people who are living in the edge of sungai), men and women, even banci. And they love me, no doubt.
Even the jilbabers cannot hate me also, I always treat them like my own sisters, giving them some vision about reality outside of their society which they never see, only for a lesson for them so that they know how to move on da’wah.I never hate anyone (But seems you did) … 😆
I wrote some true stories which were happened to me and people around me, just for a lesson only to anyone who like to read, at least they will know something outside of their environment, that’s all.
But if you don’t want to read, and just judging me after you read as you want… just go ahead. It’s your business, not mine. -
I may or may not agree with PN, FMF or other Javanese on other issues, but when it comes to national security, we do not compromise.
Since when was this thread ever about national security? All I’m talking about is showing empathy for other people,rather than calling them hypocrite and thinking you are better than them, and then have the cheek and fail to see the irony in calling me judgmental.
Why are you so defensing about being judged,especially in a debate is it becasue you do so much judging yourself?A highly sought after Bule cum moslem is an illusion.
I assume you have experience of being a bule cum muslim do you? You have continuously shown yourself to be a bad loser when it comes to the issue of bule/native relationships.
You are welcomed as what other Bule guests do – take a pick of our petite good looking chick at Blok M, marry them off to your country for a better life.
No thankyou that’s why I am very happily married to a non javanese, non muslim.
Instead of being a good tourist.
I have never been a tourist in any place I have been I might come back to live in Indo some time later in my life.
I think you need to learn how to read and tell the difference between comments made by different people.
And then you say this.
Not that wearing these are wrong, but there are some who wear them for the wrong reasons.
Who is playing god how do you know what there reasons are two girls ganging up together on one guy don’t make a difference, if they don’t have a brain between them.
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If you want to reject my olive branch, suit yourself.
Allah loves me. I know that. That’s why my life is beautiful.
I have good career, I have a lovely extended family, I have a lots of friends from any religions, friends from any level (from the high society until poor people who are living in the edge of sungai), men and women, even banci. And they love me, no doubt.
Yes miss putri Indonesia oh the smugness and self conceit if you really love Allah and he loves you he will destroy everything you hold dear including your wonderful career and the admiration of your fellow men/women the best charity is one given by the right hand, and the left one does not know about here are some wise words of LAo tzu for you:
Favor and disgrace [both] produce alarm. A source of great travail is one’s self. What is meant by saying “Favor and disgrace produce alarm?” He who is favored is someone’s inferior. Receiving favor and losing it both cause alarm.
The highest virtue is not virtuous and for that reason has [true] virtue. The lesser virtue does not lose virtue and for that reason does not have [true] virtue
So the noble takes the ignoble as its base, and the high takes the low as its foundation. For this reason the lords and kings speak of themselves as the orphaned, the bereaved, and the unworthy. Is this not taking the ignoble as one’s base? Is this not so? So the highest degree of good repute is to have no good repute. Be not glistening like jade [but] stony like rock.
Those who are good I treat as good. Those who are not good I also treat as good. Thereby I gain goodness. The trustworthy I trust. The untrustworthy I also trust. Thereby I gain trust.
Trustworthy words are not fine-sounding, and fine-sounding words are not trustworthy.But at least when people in sorrow, they know to whom they can ask for help…
I ever wrote about my plan in future to help people around in thread “Single Mother in Yogya”. Maybe it’s not a big plan, but at least I have a plan….One day you will realise you did nothing it was Allah doing it all I don’t agree with mujahideen activities, and before accusing me of getting info from books only, I have lived with and met some of these mujahidden types in Afghanistan and Palestine whilst I don’t agree with what they do, in fact I hate it (not them) I understand that if my life situation was the same as theirs I could easily be one of them.
But if you don’t want to read, and just judging me after you read as you want… just go ahead. It’s your business, not mine.
Who cast the first stone instead of actually providing well thought out ideas,all your post are concerned with showing eitherA) how great and glorious you are even using the walis name to show it or b) showing how bad others are.
Maybe you should listen to your own words. -
Alf Janszoon says:
@ Ikram, respect to you sir. But you should brush up your Ibn Ishaq: Sirat Rasul Allah, at least. It was never my intention to insult believers. But the truth must be told because the truth can set us free.
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If you want to reject my olive branch, suit yourself.
Yes miss putri Indonesia oh the smugness and self conceit if you really love Allah and he loves you, he will destroy everything you hold dear including your wonderful career and the admiration of your fellow men/women
One day you will realise you did nothing
Seems I heard a song of a jealousy from someone who is arrogant but just realized that actually he can doing nothing but talking…. 🙄
One think which made me believe that Allah is loving me is : He gave me exams…! 🙂
Exams by happiness, and exams by sorrows…
Having many friends from all religions, ethnics, levels is an exam…
Having a good career is an exam => Good career means big responsibility…
Having a lovely extended family is an exam…And meeting BP is an exam too… 🙂
Alhamdulillah, thank you my God, once again You show me that You love me…
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@ Alf, which one should I brush up? the compiling part or what? 😀
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Seems I heard a song of a jealousy from someone who is arrogant but just realized that actually he can doing nothing but talking….
So arrogant, you think I am actually jealous of you? I can only be myself and I cannot wish otherwise.
but just realized that actually he can doing nothing but talking
So judgmental, just because I do not tell the whole world how kind and wonderful I am, you suspect I do nothing in fact I do do nothing, it is allah who does any good I do I cannot take any credit for it.
Mr. Barry.. all of them are real !!
Are you trying to convince me these things are real? I have seen much worse than that what is the point of actually showing up the weakness of other people when everyone knows that these things happen, other than perhaps to show you’re so good yourself, or is it the unavoidable urge in women to gossip, cause thats all it is.
My point is exactly this you are at this moment in time thinking that you are not hypocrite and these people are bad for saying one thing and doing another.
By assuming that you can never fail like they have, you are invoking Allah’s curse on you mark my words you will be exposed one day as a hypocrite yourself.
We are all hypocrites we cannot fall short of what we.
Know/believe real hypocrisy like I said is pretending or fooling yourself into thinking you don’t have the potential for hypocrisy in yourself. -
@ FMF
If you want to reject my olive branch, suit yourself.
Beware of Bule’s olive branch. Sheikh Cuk can tell you more about Bule’s secret agendas. The moment you try accepting it, it will turn into whip or rod. As another popular Javanese said, “Bule is the symbol of whip”.
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hehehe…
Inggih, Denmas Aluang… 😆Yes, as Javanese, we always see A POSITIF THING BEHIND THE NEGATIF THINGS. This is our anchestor’s wisdom…
One of their wisdoms is :
“When anyone insult us emotionally, better we just smile and take it easy, because their emotion will burns themselves, but in the other way we will still be always happy and relax…”
My father told me that the more someone insulting me, so the more my sins will be erased, and the more his/her sins will be increasing, and oneday God will send his/her insulting back to him/her…
Don’t worry, Denmas. I’ll be fine and keep smiling, because it’s really fun to see someone is burned and commenting so emotionally to my postings…
I’m always thinking positively to a negative thing… 🙂Thank you anyway… 🙂
Well, ok, I’ll ask Kang Cuk about it…
@ Kang Cuk,
“mbergegeg, ugeg-ugeg, hmel-hmel, sak dulito, langgeng…”
(a special introduction of Kanjeng Semar)Hopefully someday you, Denmas Aluang, and me can meet in person in Gedung Wayang “Purwa” at Senen, and please tell me everything about Bule’s secret agendas 😉
Thank you before…
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@ Mr. Barry
Why can’t you just thinking positively that Allah is showing you that He loves you, because He just gave you an examination, EXAMINATION OF PATIENCE by meeting me?
hehehe 🙂
But anyway, Bule is not Javanese… They never be able to see a positive thing behind the negative things…
So I understand you ….Cheers…
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@ FMF
This punk rocker moslem convert (his own word) thinks by marrying an Indon, he is licensed to shove us around. No self-respecting Javanese will tolerate that kind of Bule arrogance. Reread what he wrote,
I do not accept the credibility of Fatwas or opinions of non Muslims
If you want to reject my olive branch, suit yourself.
I bet he can’t even see what is wrong with the above statements despite all his gloats about learning islam from Javanese wisemen.
Mas Barry, next time you visit your Javanese gurus, tell them you need a crash course on Javanese sopan.
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@ Denmas AAB..
Oic … he is a “new” one, and an ex rocker… no wonder, he cannot leave his attitude in stage, jumping, shouting and insulting for sure… and a rocker, usually is an anger-easily person…
Ok then… I understand now 🙂
So, whenever he start to insulting us, it’s mean : lagi kumat! 😀
hehehe…Anjing menggonggong kafilah berlalu, ya Denmas 8)
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@ Barry Prima
Barry Prima Says:
November 28th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I may or may not agree with PN, FMF or other Javanese on other issues, but when it comes to national security, we do not compromise.Since when was this thread ever about national security? All I’m talking about is showing empathy for other people,rather than calling them hypocrite and thinking you are better than them, and then have the cheek and fail to see the irony in calling me judgmental.
Why are you so defensing about being judged,especially in a debate is it becasue you do so much judging yourself?A Bule moslem convert is a national threat, more so an ex Punk Rocker. The people of the Nusantara are not used to having oxymorons and I am not exagerrating. Ask any Indonesian. Countries in the Middle East, Pakistan and Bangladesh may glorify a Bule newly convert, but not Indonesia. Not even neighbouring Malaysia and Brunei. FMF was being frank when she said, “For an Islamized white man, Javanese sees you as a traitor to your own kind.” This is from the mouth of a Javanese lady so your presumption that “Indonesia women wet dreamed about Bule moslem’ is only a myth from a sick puppy. There is no evident to suggest a mad rush for Bule moslem. Blok M or Dolly chicks do not represent decent Javanese muslimins.
Mas Barry, you do need to learn to take criticism every now and then when you are in another culture. I wonder if you learn anything from your so-called Javanese gurus. When I was in England, children sometimes come up to me and asked “What is your name?” I would not get offended because I am in a foreign land. In Indonesia, it is very rude for children to address an adult by their name. The colonial and British Imperialism days are over and you have to get that over your head. Your typical nonchalant Bule arrogance keeps popping up every now and then in every posting, and it is sad you don’t even notice it yourself.
May Allah swt opens your eyes and leads you to the right path.
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Pak Ahmed
Your special brand of silat is too seksi for a good Muslim boy like me. In the prime of my seksiness I avoided the meat markets of antrium senayan and angreck in an attempt to preserve my much prized virginity. Considering my natural sek appeal to Muslimah, it is hardly surprising that I did in an act of negation eventually wind up marrying a non muslimah.
I don’t want to go out like Mr brown. Besides I have my own special chi kung secrets, that according to my beloved make me a real tiger in the bedroom. Oh and by the way the snake queen did really pass on her secret flower recipe for immortality to me before she departed the earthly realm.
You need to read Hodgson’s quote in context `one who knows islam’. Geertz and many others used Wahabiism as the yardstick for measuring Javanese Islam, Hodgson and others used a much wider net for establishing what Islam is and thereby did more justice not just to Islam but Java.
All the prophets preceding Mohammed bought islam ie :`submission to god’. The reason why Woodward and others came to different conclusion is they realised the degree to which pre Islamic customs were bought under the framework of Islam or islamisiced. Islam was not a completely new religion, if it was a true revelation how could it be? Muhammad’s message integrated or synthesised all the preceding revelations into a coherent unity. The Arabs too did not reject what already existed wholesale (see the parallels between Hebrew holy words and those in Arabic) they merely bought what existed already back into the fold of monotheism. Mohammed did not invent the word `Allah’.
As for the slametan it is an Islamic practise that is also seen in various forms in Egypt morocco India and Pakistan and rooted in local theories of Sufi theory of mystical union. (Hodgson 88) With regard to names, Indonesians do not generally feel the need to adopt Arab names, as Islam did not come to the islands as a colonial power, unlike in south Asia where Muslims had a need to distinguish themselves from Hindus or were descendants of Muslims.
Real Seksiness is really deep Pak Achmed, to be really seksi you must dig deeper my bule friend.