Argument Topics
Sep 1st, 2008, in Asides, by PatungThe next funny installment of Purba vs various people, Achmad’s Oigal obsession, East Timor, Batam, plenty of other stuff…cut from Dating Girls thread.
133 Comments on “Argument Topics”
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Mets says:
Andy – sorry but get a life!!!!…do you seriously think that the indonesian women you describe do not exist in the western world……..
It seems to me, anytime your point of view is challenged by any one person on this thread you result in personal and derogatory insults……
Whilst it is clear in your own persona is a subtle manner of a worldy man, I cannot help but think you are just an old fashioned chauvanist……
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Purba Negoro says:
Well- it’s rather obvious don’t you think?
It’s always those who either don’t measure up, can’t adapt to change, can’t pass muster or simply can’t cut the mustard that whine.I would bet a very large sum his wife would come back in an instant probably to be (keenly) swept off her feet by a better man- whatever race.
I have met literally hundreds of white expats here- all love at least something. Many begrudge returning to former home’s banality- if have to return.
Yes there is the dirt, grime poverty, inconvenience, rude people, crappy Public Transport- but hardly solely limited to Indonesia. The US, UK and Australia are hardly spotless or poverty free nor bastions of refined manners.
Strangely- always the whiny insecure Aussie complains most.
Their countrymen with gumption suck it up.
Brits suck it up- they remember how tough the UK was, and Americans, perpetual optimists, cheerily see everything with rosy glasses. I have met many Aussies and Brits who will never return to home.I very firmly believe the overwhelming majority of whites here are tolerant, keenly adaptive and some are especially good citizens- making a wonderful name for themselves through tireless charitable work- like Yayasan Kampung Kids- run by a good friend- UI’s world renowned poverty elimination expert Dr Yani- a Muslim female professor- who has saved more lives in Africa alone, than Andy has had hot dinners.
If you ask an Indonesian native, “Which race here is the most charitable?” I can absolutely guarantee you “Bule” will be a top answer- if not the first.
Hardly the answer of an embittered hostile people, nor a reflection of a commonly well-behaved, accepting, positive contributors, a welcome guest often far better Indonesian citizens and more culturally appreciative than many born here.
If Andy wants Indonesia to change to suit his discerning palate- maybe he can roll up his sleeves with one of the following expat heavily involved charities-
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Andy says:
Purba-Cheaper living costs? Better schools? Closer geographically to India, China and London?
Better schools? Give us a break. Indonesian schools rank as lowly as I have ever seen in any part of the world. First you have the public system which has few if any decent facilities. I actually taught english to a woman who was a level 3 (out of 12) and at the time I didn’t realise but she happened to be the only English teacher in this school which also turned out to be ranked the best public school in Jakarta.
Secondly, there are the Natplus schools which asked me at interviews what my religion was and how often I went to church. Found that rather odd seeing as I was applying to be a teacher not a priest.
Lastly there are the International schools. Good standard of education but prices would be higher than the most prestige schools in the west. Australia has a public system (all free) from Primary through to secondary which is superior to the private system in Indonesia.
And this Purba and Mets is the reason I returned home. I want to give my son the best education possible. As I previously stated the lifestyle while I was single I could never complain and I don’t hate the country (only the oversensitive, nationalistic people I met (like you Purba) because you can’t and never will be able to face your own problems without blaming everyone else. You Purba I dare imagine drive good professional bules out of your country with your pathetic ‘blame the bule for all’ attitude. Face facts that you are a backward, third world loser and always will be.
Oh yes and the schools are so great you sent your own kids to Australia too eh.
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Well- the answer in short is never to listen to Western “experts”.
AND
There are none so deaf as who chose not to listen.My son did his undergrad at Monash. Never again. The university was utterly corrupt and 70% Chinese+ students. I was shocked to rarely see a white face- in Australian University- it turned out Monash, like other has a quota for fee paying internationals (at the time $14,000 pa) and limitations on Australian HES or HECS something? government subsidy as they were less profitable.
Monash claimed 1 billion profit in 1997- when I read last prospectus.
I was very unimpressed with education standard and facilities. They must have excellent PR consultant for such lovely glossy brochures full of wonderful airbrushed photo.I will not again make the same mistake with my daughter- she will be sent where I studied- UK. Son has chance once finish Military service for UK education if he wants.
As I said the West had bankrupted our nation- we had followed IMF instructions to the letter- that was the condition of the IMF loans packages.
We actually wanted to peg the Rupiah to the dollar at a fixed albeit lower exchange rate and we would have rode the storm like China with minimal damage.But this all flies well above your head Andy.
Best of luck. Enjoy Ostraya- I may even visit next month before your nation turns into oven.
I advise you to save for your son tuition at university before Australia cut all tertiary education sponsorship as I understand it is now a Western trend.
Failing that- my friend son, bought degrees from Queensland University Technology and RMIT- $30,000 for B Eng, and $15,000 for M Sc in 1998.
I hear VUT is cheap for buying degree- my Indian friend told me- his son buy a Masters in IT. -
perseus says:
Purba the Terrible wrote:
As I said the West had bankrupted our nation- we had followed IMF instructions to the letter- that was the condition of the IMF loans packages.
We actually wanted to peg the Rupiah to the dollar at a fixed albeit lower exchange rate and we would have rode the storm like China with minimal damage.Purba for President I say. Are you running? Asia needs another Dr Mahathir to kick Western Ass.
Anyone in any doubt as to the calibre of UK university graduates need only study the scholarly, meticulous and considered rants of President Purba 🙂
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perseus-Purba for President I say. Are you running? Asia needs another Dr Mahathir to kick Western Ass.
My sentiments exactly. The list of those running is an absolute joke anyway. Those who have previously failed (Megawati), War Criminals (Wiranto, Sutiyoso). May as well add Purba to the list. He is Indonesia in a nutshell. Blame everyone for your own failings, underachieving, act like a school kid in the playground when the world population don’t take kindly to human rights abuses. I’m sure he would get a few votes from the illiterate and undeducated who have a grand vocabulary of ‘hello mister’. This sums up about 60 % of them. And i’m sure he has spent his life on the take too like all the other leaders of his sorry s..thole of a nation.
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Farah says:
@Andy
It is very interesting that there are so many Indonesian ladies who are not prostitutes but will sleep with bules for school fees etc.
Not a prostitute but will sleep for school fee, etc??
am i read this wrong or this guy is obviously wrong ?None do that once or twice for school fee, once you did it, you will do it again, every semester, every 3 month, and you are a school chicken, ayam kampus or whore, or slut.
Honestly, its so naive when you do sex for your needs, like branded bags, or shoes, or school fee, ETC and you called your self a NOT PROSTITUTE ??
Other reasons girls there like to sleep with bule is for phone pulse, bajaj rides, lunch etc. In my case my ex whore from Semarang slept with me for a laptop.
Are you sure your EX WHORE is a whore ????? maybe she is a univ students that URGENTLY NEED a brand new LAPTOP for her study ???
..eh… ?????
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@ Andy – let me be frank and clear I never once insulted how you choose to live & how you decide to bring up your child ….that is surely your perogative………
Before you assume too much about me…my comments have been directed to the fact you have a patronising manner, with a touch of arrogance and I really take offence to the assumptions that you have portrayed in this thread that Indonesian women only date the western for their money……
my question to you once again…SINCE WHEN IN ANY OF THE WESTERN WORLD SUCH AS AUSTRALIA, AMERICA, GERMANY , FRANCE, ITALY ETC………that women allegedly only date for love & are not after men for money in some shape of form…are you ready to state this never happens…….
Plus, where did the word Courtesan come from for example or how in the world did you think Anne Boylen persuaded a king to invent a religion so she could be queen… coz she totally loved him or was she tired of being King Henry ‘s whore …and one can go on and on and on…
this is coming from an Indonesian girl who is currently working in London, who went to Santa Ursula in Jarkata, graduated from Imperial College in London, then Postgraduate @ Schillers Uni, had the good fortune of seeing the benefits of being educated from Indonesia and GB…
All of this was possible as my mother & her family worked hard to send me to school, I also was awarded two scholarships along the way……..and none of this with western purse string in sight……
So if we were to go back to the original topic of this thread surely the basis of this discussion in the first instance is the cultural difference of dating an indonesian girl…
Hence I will say this again Andy GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as I am sick of your insults towards my Indonesian sisters… whilst I know there are not directed personally at me, I, unfortunately for you know too many hard working women in my family and some of them are very very successful for you to be so generalist in your statements in stating Indonesian women are only after money!!!!!!!!!!
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Mets come on now….Generalisations are a part of life. I know full well not EVERY woman in Indonesia is the same. My comments were directed towards Purba who has made outrageous racist comments towards not only bules but chinese and jews as well. Indonesian women in this forum have become collateral damage in this argument I think. Cmon be fair now how about taking a shot at him then. Do you think what he said is true?
Of course I don’t think all indonesian women are bad, I married one remember. I have met many bad ones (no google stats but you gotta trust me when I say that) but still managed to find a good one and made her my wife. Highest compliment I can pay don’t you think.
Part of what I say is true, part of what I say is to show up the likes of Purba, AAB, Achmad etc as racist bigots who are insecure and dirty towards anyone they perceive as a threat which seems like the rest of the world to me.
Now I want to make another ‘generalisation’ which will offend you again but get ready for it.
I lived in Indonesia for 3.5 years and have travelled extensively throughout Asia and North America and in my opinion Indonesians are the most racist people I have found. I can speak fluent bahasa indonesia so know exactly what people are saying as I walk past them. It seems mostly though to be the javanese who feel this way. Most Ambonese, Batak, Balinese, Papuan, Nusa Tengara and Manadonese I have met are fantastic. And not forgetting the chinese who are also part of your country as much as the racists like to ignore. -
@ Andy
I could say i met 90% white man with jerk attitude in my live still i wont generalize them as white d*ck head. The other 10% i met is several western worker in my company that respect woman, and their marriage while working in here more than 5-7 years even more.Somehow, even you met what you called what so ever a good girl to be your wife. You made her sound horrible here by disgracing indonesian woman that sleep with bule like you just for a laptop or bajaj ride.
If you say Generalizations are a part of YOUR life. Then you possibly married prostitute NOT a good woman as your last comment, because she is an indonesian woman, and WE Indonesian woman as your comment many sleep with bule only for school fees etc.money, laptop or bajaj ride or lunch. Or does your in-laws sold her to you maybe ????
Feel sorry for her anyway.
Stop insulting Indonesian woman or generalize us, living here for 3,5 years, and went to pubs and nightclubs and just SEVERAL places in indonesia, you have no rights to call most of us prostitute mister !!
And for your comments about indonesian are the most racist people ??? what do you watch or read mister ?? stop watching barney’s show and get some real news papers and proper tv show would you ???
If we’re racist you wont be here for sure.
Theres more problem in some other countries like united state with colored skin and australia maybe you could see the cronulla riots back in 2005 in sydney. Thats just few example. -
Oigal says:
australia maybe you could see the cronulla riots back in 2005 in sydney
Hey Farah..I agree with the majority of your comments, although as a woman you may wish to do some research on what actually prompted the problem at Cronulla and still is a major issue. (BTW Riot..nice headline low on fact)
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Hi Oigal,
Good to see you back. I think the problem at Cronulla was due to Australia’s subconscious but powerful culture of white supremacy. Sometimes, Muslims feel like they’ve “had a gutful” and need to set the record straight. Comments like “we grew here, you flew here,” get a bit much after a while from a motley crue of ex-convicts.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Farah, be easy on this SNAG.
Andy seems to be an atypical White Ostraya Women bully who can’t swallow bitter pills. There is a high chance he would bash up his Indonesian wife after having a lousy day – this time it is being kicked about like a football in IM.
@ Andy, wonder your marriage this time round is 3th, 4th or 5th time lucky?
@ Oigal, wasn’t the Cronulla riot about White Power?
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inane rubbish as usual..sad little creature
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Klu Klux Klan would’ve said the same thing…
Apartheid Government’s would’ve said the samething
Ditto for Australia under its White Australia policy…
Wait a minute… Oigal — didn’t you spend your formative years under that policy. Hang on a minute, wasn’t it, um 1967 before Aboriginals were counted as humans in Australia.
Before that weren’t they legally classified as fauna, hence being given to the Parks and Wildlife Service in W.A. to deal with.
No, Oigal, beneath the veneer of allegedly humble Aussie blokedom likes a salivating redneck.
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Lol…
I read somewhere that until the 1970’s in rural Tasmania or Victoria there was still a bounty in the books on “abo”‘s carcasses.
They had to erase it before Indigenous People’s Year or something- then revise their history in time.Pak Srimegar, Prabowo or Pak Sutiyoso would put those redneck Aussies back in their place.
Watch them grovel by 2010. It will be very amusing.Sutiyoso was very lucky not be carrying his sidearm- otherwise he could have legally put a forehead arse-hole into that police arsehole who blundered into his room- in violation of Internatioal Law- I may add.
Perhaps we should unleach our itching Kostrad to do the same to the Ostrayan Embassy and show them who’s boss.
Photos of Ostrayan soiled trousers would make an excellent Herald-Sun front page and lift the quality of its’ usual content.
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OF course the Chinese minority are friendly- you’re the White Saviour returning to save their faithful Colonial servants from those nasty brown former waiters who’ve now gotten uppity.
Ostrayans are well known for their hobby of having something nuzzling their behind.
And Chinese infamous for their brown-nosing.
Visit Singapore for proof -
Purba, as a former ARBI officer I would be interested to know how many chinese women you tortured and raped in 1998. Or how many people you killed in Timor in the 1980s and 1990s. Cmon mate, you are on home soil amongst friends, just give me a rough estimate.
Oh and by the way Singaporeans are several classes above the likes of you. I’ll never forget your arsehole embassy in Singapore trying hard to treat law abiding people like sh*t for wait for it ….visiting your country and helping it’s economy. But they were rude, unhelpful and racist. They even forced me to buy a pair of soiled track pants because they were offended that I wore shorts inside their grounds. How about those clowns. One foot outside their gates and they are nothing. The taxi driver who took me from there said he wouldn’t even bother going to Batam. doesn’t trust the corruption he said.
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Sutiyoso was a general at the time of the invasion of Timor. 5 Australian journalists were brutally murdered by the Indonesian military as they had fears the human rights atrocities would get out into the world so they had to silence them. That is not my testimony but a court of laws.
Sutiyoso and his cronies (were you based there at the time Purba?) should face the music and fess up to what they saw and did at the time. Or don’t your brave heroes have the guts Purba?
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@ Oigal
I didn’t gave the brief explanation as i believe not all of us here watch barney show like andy.
Cronulla riot started when some lebanese making trouble at beach with life guards, i read some news about it and also videos at you tube.
…once again, its only one of the example about some people being racist etc.@ AAB
Thanks for the advice. -
No women were tortured or raped.This is an outright lie.
This is the baseless and unfounded allegation of one NGO:
National Committee on Human Rights- a completely Chinese funded and Chinese staffed NGO now closed just prior to news of Government audits of all NGO’s- to eliminate the real NGO’s from the filthy name of political activists and agent provocateurs.The Women’s Minister started two hotlines, female specialist rape investigators and female rape-victim support staff.
The police investigated 20 Jakarta hospitals- not none case of rape out of 630 inpatients.
Police appealed for any and all evidence, however circumstantial to start investigations. Nothing yet offerendPolicewoman, First Lieutenant Yenni Setyo Winindyati, stated in an interview with a major Jakarta daily on August 2 that she had tried to work with members of the Volunteer Team and the National Commission of Human Rights in good faith but got no cooperation and now she did not believe that any rapes took place.
Not one telephone call, not one statement, not one complain.
Not one scrap of evidence.
Not one statement or even anonymous audio statement has yet been offered.Another Chinese- Eddy Noor- stated in all major newspapers he felt the rapes were total fabrication to damage Indonesia’s image.
Thus it would seem yet again more Chinese Glodok lies to worm their way into a refuge visa.
Even Human Rights Watch International concedes this truth.
Batam is almost 90% Chinese. Brothels, gambling dens, karaoke bars etc- everything is Chinese owned.
Soon a Chinese pipe-plant and a powerstation wil be built there.
UNICEF stated: “‘’On the Indonesian island of Batam, Singaporean tourists underpin the demand for underage sex.”
from
http://www.batam.com/news/latest/asia-rock-star-s-expulsion-says-no-to-child-sex-tourists.html
Singapore Government even has an offer for couples to go to Batam for naughty playtimes to boost their plummeting child-birth numbers.So I think your taxi-driver a very wise man-he can see a con artist a mile away, unlike some. And only an idiot would ever trust a Chinaman from the Indies, said the Dutch.
I am so very sorry having an ounce of decorum is so offensive to you Andy.
Perhaps they were warned of Ostrayan in their traditional formal dress like you hovering around orphanages.Indonesia is more than glad to be rid of the likes of you Andy- and I dare say Australia would be too.
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I could say i agree with PN this time. Theres no report that time its just mass media telling theres rapes. Who’s the victims we never know until today.
And i don’t know how you, and some expats seemed KNOW about this raping more than us who live in Indonesia during the riots in jakarta.
About Batam is also the truth. Chinese have lots of business there.
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Farah-About Batam is also the truth. Chinese have lots of business there.
Yes of course the javanese dictatorship would bend over for anyone’s money. They hate and despise the chinese out of jealousy but wouldn’t stop them taking their money would it.
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@ Andy – are you for real…’by marrying an Indonesian women is the highest compliment you can pay’…sorry sweetie where exactly are you going with that statement….
Cant you not see the arrogance oozing out of that statement….!!!!, if you view your partner as an equal or maybe be grateful that she chose you as her husband..maybe you might be more modest in your approach…
As for your comments about me having a go at PN – I don’t think so….he is playing you at your own game and as they say if you cant stand the heat………..
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Maybe right Mets but if you were fair you would not like him being racist either. But it’s not about that at all is it? Probably you agree with him in principle.
Oh by the way the Indonesian military raped many chinese women in 1998. If you really cared about human rights you would be angry about that. But I guess you just love sitting back living in the west while bagging bules. Typical nationalist. Bet you didn’t even know what a chauvanist was until you went to London.
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Purba, the daughter of Christian Wibisono was raped before his eyes. Know who he is? He hates your people for the racist brutality your javanese mob have committed. This has been videoed and seen before many many people.
Can’t face up to it can you. Always in denial right. I hope your conscience is rested while you celebrate the fasting month of Ramadan.
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AAB @ Andy, wonder your marriage this time round is 3th, 4th or 5th time lucky?
No sorry to disappoint you. Very happy first marriage. We get on perfectly. Bet that upsets Mets too. And as for Purba well i’m happy to take his money if he thinks my wife would trade me in for anyone back home. Well Purba, show me the money!!!!!!!!!!
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I could say i agree with PN this time. Theres no report that time its just mass media telling theres rapes. Who’s the victims we never know until today
From PN expected from a woman thats really sad..if PN was really in the TNI then perhaps he would like to tell us about the “nice” little establishment they created on Aturo Island, just off East Timor..(Thats another little item that will never be made public in Indonesia) but next time you meet one of Senior Heros of Tim Tim do ask about the island and watch the reaction.
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@ Andy – I believe PN is patriotic which is very conmendable but yes agree some of the examples used are below the belt, but then Andy so have yours…hence ‘if you cant take the heat’….and as for chauvanist……have you met my father lately lol!!!!
With regards to that statement military raped many chinese women in 1998 – evidence please……
And as for my life in London – you cant seem to form an objective opinion without having to turn it into a personal attack….lol!!
If thats what you believe I do – you know what go ahead!!! KNOCK YOURSELF OUT!!!
Oh and the bagging the bule thing…your probably right – with the work that I do, I have managed to bag…or shall one say …
– Increased crack house closures by 20% in one london area …which means I bagged 5 drug dealers (bule not even orang hitam) with the police & local authority
– Increased detection of class a-c drug possession in a London area by 65%…that means I bagged or arrested a good few ….ratio bule 55% remainder other black minority ethnic.., again with the police and local authority
Ha ha ha !!!!!!!!! so I’ll carry on bagging the bule’s as you say lol!!
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Andy-
the inferiority complex and the burden of a heavy conscience are obvious, now we resort to childish, obviously false and non-evidence driven anecdote.
To placate that heavy conscience- why not return to Jakarta- your wifes’ life will be indeed be far more pleasant than that convict backwater and the food infinitely better.
Cheaper living costs? Better schools? Closer geographically to India, China and London?
If she truly loves you- it is completely impossible she realises she married far beneath herself nor abandon a lowly educated philistine for a superior Chinese or bule.
Poverty is indeed an aphrodisiac- especially attractive to the crude boorish Aussie intent on creating a lifestyle he could never have in the West.
Opportunistically preying on destitution is the hallmark of the slaver.
Why does the image of Aborigines in neck-shackles pop out?