36 Comments on “Indigenous Flag Raising”

1. Purba Negoro says:

   August 15, 2008 at 4:45 pm

   Come to Jakarta- I will happily show you my shiny new AKM and Makarov.
   Then we go to Irian for hunting NGO’s.

2. Enigmatic says:

   August 15, 2008 at 11:31 pm

   PrimaryDrive Says:

   August 12th, 2008 at 1:46 am
   Matthew: I know Dita Sari wants a referendum in West Papua, just as in East Timor, and let their people decide their own fate democratically. That’s not too much to ask for in my humble opinion.

   It depends on how you look at the matter. Being an Australian you have no direct stake in Papua. So it’s easy for you to say the above. It matters little to you whether Papua is part of RI, or independent. For the latter you can even claim some credits.

   For Indonesians things are more complicated. Papua is rich, so letting Papua go is economically not interesting for RI. And RI really needs no reason to refuse referendum. Papua is simply a legitimate part of RI.

   From fairness point of view perhaps it is true that freedom is everyone’s right. So if Papua locals want to separate, they should be allowed to do so. But then again, things in real life is never as easy as that. Suppose your husband/wife is unhappy with you; she wants divorce and 1/2 your capital, will you, out of fairness consideration, simply go along with her demand?

   As much as I do not wish Papua leave Indonesia and go her own way, we need to think of how the Indonesian Government and the people in general treat Papuans…

   Now DON’T tell me that this news article is biased/pro-imperialist/anti-Indonesia… I just hope that the people there can get better treatment. After all, we are using their resources to fuel the Indonesian economy as a whole.

   http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2008/05/200861516597875775.html

3. Berlian Biru says:

   August 16, 2008 at 12:48 pm

   “NOw- post Clinton interference.”

   Er, no, there has been a majority in Northern Ireland in favour of remaining part of the UK since the foundation of that state in 1921, that’s why they created Northern Ireland in the first place.

   If that’s the standard of your ignorance about something so basic as the situation in Northern Ireland then I can take a line through that and judge your knowledge of the situation here in Indonesia and come to the conclusion that you really don’t know very much at all.

4. Geordie says:

   August 18, 2008 at 5:26 pm

   Furthermore, Irian is underpopulated with less than 1 million at time of integration and most IRian are simple-minded stone-age savages unable to cope with modern civilisation with a very low rate of reproduction.

   PN, this really is beneath you.

   Is underpopulated as you put it, simply an example of an ancient culture being able to size itself appropriately to the availability and sustainability of resources in its environment? Aren’t we in the rest of the world now seeking to work in balance with our environments once again? Who is more ‘advanced’ if we consider it in those terms? We indulge in hubris of the magnitude your words infer at our peril, that is, assuming it’s not already too late.

   For the record, my view is that the level of damage we have wrought thus far is sufficient to make any efforts at reversal redundant. And it’s my guess that indigeneous cultures that have managed to resist our brand of ‘civilization’ will be best placed to take advantage of the ensuing vacuum. Good on them I say, I’m sure they’ll make better custodians of the planet than we have.

   For the moment though let’s assume that you’re right, that the average Irian is both ‘simple-minded’ and as you say in another post ‘child-like’ (I may be paraphrasing there). In that context, Irians raising a flag is no more seditious than I was when playing soldiers as a boy and had to be on the non-British side. Moreover in law, Indonesian law too, there is an age below which one can not be held accountable for one’s actions in that you are unable to link the action with the consequences of the same reliably. The same is also true for those who are above age but mentally incapable of making the same link between action and consequence.

   This is of course, completely moot as the Indonesian Governement clearly views average Irians as capable adults, entirley responsible for their acts; hence those in prison are serving sentences consistent with Indonesian law. Whether I think it’s treason to raise a flag other than the flag of state is irrelevent; the Indonesian Government has stated it is and the penalties are commensurate with the act. So it rather does beg the question that if the aveage Irian is compus mentus, aware of the consequences, is raising a flag an important, symbolic (use of symbols usually considered a part of culture) act? And is that really the behaviour of simple – minded people, even assuming a whole culture could be considered such a thing?

   I’m neither for or against independence of Irian Jaya it’s simply none of my business. But labelling a whole culture as somehow (and I paraphrase again) inferior is rather beyond the pale in my opinion and, from your arguments, I don’t think you’ve established said inferiority satisfactorily.

5. papuaboy says:

   August 23, 2009 at 10:05 am

   Purba,
   I hope you do not mind me mentioning this but your English is just too good to be an Indonesian. What are you really?
   I am a former European, now living in West Papua, I can see both sides of the coin here. The general situation here is much safer than in P.N.G. where I would have to live in a house surrounded by a high, barbed-wire fence. There is generally considerable freedom here and the situation is much better than 20 years ago when freedom of movement was very restricted. Ethnic Papuans have filled most of the leading government posts and educational faciliies are being improved all the time.
   The armed forces here are generally sympathetic in going about their daily tasks. Unfortunately they is a certain group who take the law into their own hands. A recent case has been the shooting and killing of an Australian worker from Freeport who received several bullet holes from an experienced marksman. This, as usual, was blamed on local tribesmen who do not posess such weapons.
   Some of my Papuan friends who have been following this , and other, articles on Papua, were highly offended by Purba’s sometimes racialist remarks. Cannibalism does still exist amoungst the Korowai but my friends feel it wasn’t necessary to make it such a big issue. Most Papuans are far from being savages, and are warm and sincere.
   However I feel the difference of opinions about this article extremely fascinating. This is what freedom of speech is all about! Good luck to you all!

6. Lynette Hughes says:

   September 17, 2009 at 8:42 am

   Thank you Sri L and Matthew! Purba Negoro’s argument certainly has a familiar ring to it – probably learnt from Australian and North American colonial racist apologising. Clearly you are on troublemaker the tsunami missed – you are only going so hard core with your attacks because you are clearly feeling guilty about your participation in the various Indonesian genocides and being honest with yourself and facing up to this fact would probably kill you. Never mind karma will have it’s way with you soon enough. People sometimes say that the genocide in Australia and other places happened so long ago and we can’t do anything about it now. Well it is happening in West Papua, South America, Burma etc right now and what are we doing about it? Nothing because all we are interested in is making a buck – I absolutely take Purba Negoro’s point about Australian mining companies cashing in in whatever way they can!