Bad Impressions & Mumbai
Dec 2nd, 2008, in News, by Patung
The Mumbai terror attacks heighten resolve in Indonesia to fight terrorism, and dealing with wrong impressions about religion.
The head of the Islam section of the Department of Religion, Prof Dr Nasaruddin Umar, said recently, before the Mumbai terror attacks, that there was something wrong with the Muslim community these days, what with antara
- a great amount of fragmentation,
- the rise of hardline groups,
- increasing occurrence of terrorism
He put the problems down to the global capitalist system, which forced people to see things in rational, pragmatic, profit & loss terms, and then they lost the spiritual essence of religion, with only rituals remaining.
Khalifatul Muslimin
One such possible hardline group, Khalifatul Muslimin, recently had to defend itself against accusations that it was carrying out para-military training at Bumi Perkemahan, Ragunan, South Jakarta.
Panji Sudiro from Khalifatul Muslimin said the group was only holding martial arts training in preparation for cadets to advance to the next level, and that Khalifatul Muslimin, although it believed in Islamic leadership (khilafah), had no political goals and no connection to the Majelis Mujahidin Indonesia (MMI) (see Mujahidin Council Unwelcome).
The organisation was founded by Abdul Qodir Hasan Baraja in Lampung in 2004, and has around 5,000 members. tempo
Terrorism – Mumbai
Meanwhile, on the issue of terrorism, Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS) figure Mutammimul Ula said he was very concerned that the terrorist attacks in Bombay/Mumbai, India would have a negative effect on the image of Islam.
The people who are claiming responsibility call themselves “Deccan Mujahideen”, their name has an Islamic sound to it.
He worried that the public would develop the impression that Islam was synonymous with terrorism.
Mutammimul Ula
India had recently been the target of many extremist and separatist attacks, he said, and on behalf of the PKS he expressed condolences to the people there. kompas
The president of India, Pratibha Devisighn Patil, is in Indonesia and visited the parliament in Jakarta today, and met its chairman Hidayat Nur Wahid of PKS. Hidayat said to her: detik
We are united [India & Indonesia] in rejecting terrorism and working together to deal with it. The religions of the world do not teach violence, religion is actually a victim of terrorism.
72 Comments on “Bad Impressions & Mumbai”
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Daniel K says:
AAB, I think that you’re theory is proved wrong by Amrozi, Mukhlas, and Samudra.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ Daniel K
AAB, I think that you’re theory is proved wrong by Amrozi, Mukhlas, and Samudra.
I think you have not heard their live confession of their regrets. A co-conspirator and brother of one of these men is now a advocate for peaceful Kejawen.
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Yes, I know about the co-conspirator Ali Imron who is repentent, but the three I mentioned were not repentent and made guarantee that they would do the same again if they could. If I’m wrong, please tell me where I can see the confession.
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Rambutan says:
advocate for peaceful Kejawen
You’re delusional. He cooperates with the police, yes. And he is repentant to some extent. But he still is a radical Islamist. He just doesn’t consider bombings the right way to fight for an Islamic state.
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There is not a soul on earth who is not effected on infected in some way by the “capitalist system”. That is the state of affairs as it is. The problem(s) of colonialism still persist in the post-colonial world.
Religion exerts a very conservative cultural force. It attempts to act as a counter weight to economic, political, and cultural influences which are perceived as threats to the holy order of things. There is a deep cultural divide along a rift of dogma, indoctrination, anti-rationalism that is leading to what Harm De Blij calls a “global endarkenment”.
And here we are. Muslim vs. Hindu vs. Buddhist vs. Christian vs. Jew. All are at fault and the more radical elements of these religions would set the world on fire without a thought. Yes, these people have lost the thread of the spiritual ways of these great and noble religions and offer nothing but a nilhist solution. I repudiate this solution in all of its forms.
One very important reason why Indonesia matters (at least to me) is because it is a secular Republic. Indonesia will only find its greatness in this world if it remains so.
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@ Daniel K
They had expressed regret for the widowed and the orphanged. Had they known the devastation caused, they would not have done it. However, they were unrepentent for Bule deaths. I can’t provide a link because I saw it a while back when they were interviewed live on a local channel. They still have some humanity left in them unlike other cultures infected with the arab disease.
I have a few Indian moslem friends, and they are extremely hostile toward their own Hindu people. They would deny their Indian heritage and even to the extent of trying to convince me they are Arabs, as if I can’t tell the difference between Arabs and Indians. Shame, shame for any Indian reading this.
Same goes with anglo-celtic Bule especially those from the UK. Barry Prima is one of many example. He is especially hostile toward our poor christianised Andy and the other 2 stooges, just because of an ideology. How petty.
All people are born equal, but cultures are not. Javanese and our kejawen is second to none.
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Andrew says:
🙂 i’m beginning to like you, AAB. But how do you explain the fact that Indonesia (which is to large extent dominated by the Javanese) is more and more getting behind other nations & cultures, including India?
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Purba Negoro says:
Andrew,
surely you jest.
India will never attain more than 65% of China’s wealth.India is home to the worlds greatest populations of poor and endemically poor. More than 700 million are below poverty class of 1b illion.
It is no superpower aside from being Dhalit and dhool organ supply for the rich.Most wealthy Indian claim they are “Anglo Indian”- or that Muslim Indians and Catholics are not Indians at all.
The wealthy complain that no transportation infrastructure is being built and losing out to China, Thailand and Vietnam
Indonesia is miles ahead of India- we were on a par with Argentina.
Now we are suffering minor temporary setbacks- we have 50 million underclass poor- an increase of at least 25 million since Suharto time- and Suharto’s ruel was projected to have finally eliminated severe intractable poverty from Indonesia.It is still very possible- we merely await financial upturn for economy. Although we now tail China- in the future I am certain we will surpass them- especially as we have no anti-Western militarist aspirations.
Sadly for India and China no such hope for the majority of their impovershed populations.
And no- of course I, like you, take no schadenfreude in the suffering of the poor.
Honestly I think Bangladesh and Pakistan will outpace India- their population is not so intractably impoverished and Lahore and Islamabad are very lovely well set out cities- like Bangalore used to be before the IT nerds ruined it.
Agra remains magical. -
janma says:
Most wealthy Indian claim they are “Anglo Indian”-
Actually the term ‘Anglo Indian’ is used for mixed race indians, who have british blood. it is not a term that denotes wealth.
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hary says:
Surely you jest. The Indians have the advantage of a priceless legacy; fluency in the English language and rule of law. This allows the average Indian access to jobs in this age. They sky is the limit.
Kita? Bahasa Indonesia terus, korupsi dan pesantren. Until we accept the fact that reciting the Al Koran is not an economic advantage, we are not going to be plugged into the 21st Century.
Don’t get me wrong, I am deeply religious, but I also had the good sense to learn to read English and count.Rote learning Koranic verses is not going to put bread on the table.
Pungli in this country is getting worse, not better. It took me 2 hours to register a company in Singapore. It takes me 3 months in Indonesia. Why? Because my notaris needed signatures and izins. Each accompanied by a ” Bapak bisa bantu nngak?” Yes, there is baksheesh in India, but at least the rules and regulations are transparent.
I love my country, and am so sad to see it go further down the tubes every year. Increased religious tensions, ridiculous laws, bureacracy…. when will we get on track and set the stage for Indonesians to better themselves.
Affordable secular education, better health services at the Puskesmas, friendlier laws for people setting up business. Decentralise the power in Jakarta.After all Nike is in Beaverton, Oregon, Coca Cola in Atlanta Georgia and Microsoft in Seattle, Washington. Empower the people.Why can’t you allow the entrepreneurial class to flourish in any city in Indonesia. Indonesians want a better life and they will succeed, if only given a chance by the system.
Until then, the Indians trump us, Papadums and all. -
kinch says:
@PN: I want some of whatever it is that you’re smoking.
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diego says:
Don’t be too hard on the mumbai terrorist gang. One of its member just apologized for this. He admited there was a little error on their side; their email-box got mixed up, so they didn’t know about Obama’s winning the election: apologetic-mumbai-killers-we-didnt-get-the-memo-about-obama … C’mon, this kind of happens to us once in a while, right? Information overload.
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PN, what you describe is either fiction or prophecy.
The Javanese was successful in the past (when I say “past”, look back 500+ years) but lost out once the competition intensified. Sad, because I agree that it is one of the prominent civilization on earth – although not nearly as ancient, big, and influential as the Chinese nor the Indian. No amount of bragging will take it to the same level – and that’s not an insult, it’s just a cold hard fact.
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funny says:
You got it spot on hary.
I might add that with “everyone” keep trying to sow dissension instead of unity, we won’t ever move forward.
Hell, we’d be lucky to be able to keep what we got (for all intent and purposes, we have lost a lot of what we have).
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Abdul Khalid al Jumhuri says:
I agree with AAB, no patronizing involved and without prejudice. Indonesia has the Kejawen, which is so malleable and tolerant; which saves it from total destruction in the event of extreme cultural clash and battle of the mind Indonesia experienced in early 2000. Of course there are SOBs who thought they are more Arabs than the Arabs and trying hard to arabize the Javanese, like Abubakar Ba’asyir. It is natural that fakes always try out-native the natives.
The current King Abdullah of Saudi has shown strong vision of moderation and encourages moderation in all kind – not an easy job to rule the Arabian peninsula without the Wahabbi’s support. And I could picture how the Wahabbis are now cursingto death in each of their five times a day prayer for the demise of this moderate King. Well, it is tough to live to be a radical when Abdullah decided single-handedly ban the 1000 of the loud-mouthed radical preachers and send some other 100 to jail. I wonder if SBY would at some point wake up and start acting manly like him.
But, boy oh boy, this harmony crap is so tiring. Even just to shoot to death (a penalty waaaaay to easy IMHO, my preference is slow process roasting on electric chair) three convicted murderers took sooo long for the fear of repercussion, and maintaining harmony and all the crap.
I wish people realize now what I have been telling (and nobody listen) since late 1980s: the world should unite against the virulent Wahabbi teaching, dissect the radicals with a quick operation, and ban the teachings with the threat of death penalty period. I have said it way too long, before the Chehnya crises, long before the 911, and before the establishment of Indonesian PKS party.
PKS would have been radicals if their source of funding was not choked by the US Treasury’s tracing and finally banning Al Haramain’s fund. Now that the funding is depleted, PKS is ready to sleep with Golkar, PDIP or the like, just like other professional political parties: services goes to the highest bidder. Thanks heaven for that!
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Saipul says:
Some Javanese are amazing and they promote moderation. Yogya is a good example where the sultan allows all religions to flourish–Islam, Kejawen, Catholicism, etc. But some Javanese are quite radical. Wonosobo, for example, is crawling with BIN agents. It just depends on how Arabized the region is. But I absolutely supported the attempts in East Java to de-Arabize Islam. That was a noble effort.
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To their credit: (young) moslems of Lumajang do not welcome Basyir….
http://www.jawapos.co.id/radar/index.php?act=detail&rid=46414 -
The islamic dilemma in western countries is their own creation. One example is this – Islamic school dans National Anthem. These thing won’t happen in Indonesia despite being the world’s largest moslem countries.
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Diego I loved that didn’t get the memo link! Thanks! had a good laugh!
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Diego just has the best links…he should be doing my job, hunting out stories – expect to see more of that Baasyir story presently, thanks Diego…
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Controversial and disturbing comment, but Dr. Umar isn’t giving the whole picture.
Sad fact is that there are strains of Islam, notably Wahabiism, in which what we call terrorism is logical and in line with its teachings.
The “terrorists” see what they do as asymmetric warfare carried out against an illegal and illegimitate order — the secular system of nation-states.
If the secular state is sinful and the only right way for Muslims to live is a pan-Islamic caliphate, isn’t it right to take up arms ? And isn’t urban guerilla warfare a time-tested way for weaker forces to wage war against stronger ones ?
Ultimately, the debate centers around the definition of non-combatants. To most of us, civilian bystanders are non-combatants.
Where the terrorists fail and why they’re terrorists not freedom fighters is justifying killing, say, hotel travellers. Sorry, Osama, summary vigilante execution for paying taxes to the government, doesn’t cut it.
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lomboksurfer says:
This “Letter of Apology” was written by Lieutenant General Chuck Pitman, US Marine Corps, Retired:
For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while, on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day massacre.I humbly offer my opinion here:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.)
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.
I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.
I am sorry that Yassar Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian “cause.”
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the U.S.A. has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems
I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the “food for oil” money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in “paradise.”
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other non-combatant civilians are legitimate targets.
I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don’t drop a few dozen daisy-cutters on Fallujah.
I am sorry every time terrorists hide, they find a convenient “Holy Site.”
I am sorry they didn’t apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church – one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn’t apologize for flights 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc, etc!
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do.
We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That’s one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don’t hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like – so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong; sure, it dramatically hurts our cause; but, until captured, we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we’re supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burned amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
If you want an apology from this American, you’re going to have a long wait! You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins.
Chuck Pitman Lieutenant -
The link that I gave in my last posting “Islamic school bans National Anthem” is not the original article; and had been rewritten twice. Here was a part of the original before the switch:
An investigation was underway on a memo being circulated. Part of it states “We will not have the national anthem sang …… after taking into account several other aspects especially on islamic view and ethos, the singing of the anthem will be put on hold.”
Once again, gutless and crotchless bules media bowing to islamists. In Indon we call an a**hole, an a**hole. Now, how can you expect us to clean up our backyard of islamists when you can’t even handle your own backyard. I think we should encourage Andy to run for prime ministership.
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Peter says:
lomboksurfer,
I am sorry you posted that useless letter.
I am sorry I read it.
I am sorry for being such a sarcastic bastard.
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@ Peter and don’t bloody well forget that we are all sorry that your daddy rolled over on the wrong side of the bed some years ago! Would have spared us the bloody sarcasm and the bleedin useless comment!
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You’re pretty on edge for a surfer, eh? Hey, at least I apologized.
What I was saying, in fewer words, was that your comment is unfortunate due to its fringe relevance and non-constructive nature. What point are you trying to make, and how does your posted letter prove it?
Again I am sorry. No – forreals.
…
Cheer up, guy 😀
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taxpayer says:
I have a great “Financial” Scheme for Indonesia to use to help combat the economic crisis.
How about Baseball Cards that can be collected by the Indonesian children which portray pictures and stats of all the morons who have leadership status here.
Can you imagine the joy and the pride Indo kids will have when they can trade a Roy Suryo Card for say……a Mutammimul Ula card? Or perhaps they could trade a Yusril Mahendra Card for an AA Gym card.
Sell a pack of 3 cards for 20,000Rp and watch the coffers fill with more money for these leaders of Indonesia to siphon off into their private bank accounts.
Javanese Superiority? PLEASE……Your still Indonesian. Seems that no one group in this country can get off their pedestal and dump their attitudes of “entitlement”.
India is light years ahead of Indonesia. Whats the difference between India and Indonesia?
India’s leadership still cares about their people. Indonesia’s leadership only cares when election time comes around.
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Andy says:
Thanks AAB, I would love to run but would have to make you an honorary Aussie to get a vote..You would get a cabinet position if I win.
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Czeslaw says:
Achmad, great and open-minded view on the issue.
Looking back at the Mumbai terror and tragedy of Indian people, it is coming out of wood works, perhaps what it really is.The surviving criminal and murderer admitted that his “poor” family somewhere in boonies in Pakistan would receive 1,250 USD if he becomes a “martyr,” which means if he will get killed to stop his carnage while murdering innocent people. Well, that seems like the front runner advertisement for Islam-Terror, Inc.
So, now it seams like Mr. Allah put a tag for 1,250 USD for his criminal armies. It doesn’t take an economical genus to conclude that the price tag for Mr. Allah’s heaven now is worth more or less 1,250 USD. Looking from another angle here, it seems that all of these “Islamic Solvation Army” are nothing more than paid gangsters and criminals and the whole Muhajeen and all that Alqueda and this and that, are nothing more than organized mafia paying its hit man in real cash for the job.
But also I wonder about the intelligence of those who believe that the ticket to the Mr. Allah heaven is worth his life and is only 1,250 USD on sale right now. I think that this is due because of the upcoming Christmas sale discounts offered by The Osama, Inc.. Maybe after the Dec. 31, 2008 the price may go up? It seems that Osama is learning some marketing strategies. Not bad like for an Arab in troubled economical times.
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A tale of superior Javanese culture versus Indian and other inferior cultures.
A Javanese infected with the Arab disease – you can look him in the eyes, remind him of his ethnicity and whose lives he is destroying. Chances that he will feel guilty and back off.
An Indian infected with the Arab disease – will masacre his own people taking along his family as well. Only cure is a bullet to his head.