Islam Revert
Dec 20th, 2008, in News, by PatungA teenage Australian girl from sunny Queensland finds Islam in Lampung and becomes a revert.
Kim, or Kimi, otherwise known as “KimDonesia” (Kim + Indonesia), a 17 year old Australian from Queensland, the Sunshine state, once lived in Lampung, southern Sumatra, for six months, accompanying her step-father who worked for a sugar company, Gula Putih Mataram (GPM).
While in Lampung she says she studied Islam, and was moved by the passionate devotion of the people there to the religion, and finally fell in love with it, particularly the sound of the call to prayer.
After moving back to Australia she converted to the faith, or reverted as she would have it. Here she explains, in rather good Indonesian, how she came to live in Indonesia in 2007:
In this video she explains her religious journey – from Wiccan moon worshipping, to nothing in particular, to Islam – she even has the pronunciation right, Islaaam, – and how living in Lampung and talking to the people there was one of the keys to her decision to throw her lot in with Allah.
Youtube Mission
Kimdonesia has in the short time since her conversion this year produced dozens of Islamic dakwah (missionary) videos on Youtube, and has a bit of a following among some Indonesians, at http://www.youtube.com/user/KimDonesia.
549 Comments on “Islam Revert”
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Elijah says:
@jsbst18
You mentioned:
I guess Islam teaches; Kill the non-believer if they eat pork, treat women like servants and prostitutes but dont forget to shout that Islam is a peaceful religion.
The Holy Scripture of Islam and The Last Testament for humanity: The Holy Quran suggests something diagonally opposed to the stereotype of Islam, Western media and literature-thanks to the full-time efforts of Evagelical missionaries, would like to project so as to keep others away from genuinely studying Islam as understood by Muslims themselves.
5:32 if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.
9:71 The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
9:72 Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah. that is the supreme felicity.If Western claim of oppression of women by Islam is true (it is sometimes true for certain ignorant Muslims far away from the ideals Islam advocated)
Why as the statistics show about 66.66% of European converts to Islam are women?
Why as the statistics show there has been an increase of 235% for Islam as opposed to 45% for Christianity in fifty years from 1934-1984?Despite the fact that there is more English literature against Islam than about Islam. Muslims don’t have their own media.This is only because The Holy Prophet peace be upon him (saaws) had prophesized that Islam is destined to supersede all before ideas and beliefs. A mere human cannot of his own self can make such a remarkable prohecy.
9:33 It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though those ascribe partners to God may detest (it).
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Oigal says:
Elijah
if any one slew a person – unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people
Nice sentiment.. Perhaps you have missed what has been going on in the world for past few years. Sorry you if you are going insist upon generalisations (aka “Western” claim) then by your own definations you cannot then exclude various acts by Muslims as non-representative.
Nashanuddin Khan/Associated Press
29 Dec 08
KABUL, Afghanistan —A day after a suicide bomber killed at least 16 people, including 13 schoolchildren, in a region bordering Pakistan, a new rash of bombings shook different areas of Afghanistan on Monday, killing two civilians north of Kabul and two more in Kandahar Province.
Men inspected the wreckage of a suicide car bomb on Sunday in Khost Province, Afghanistan. The Taliban claimed responsibility for the bomb, which was detonated next to a school
Guess those poor schoolgirls should have known better than to try and get an education or perhaps oppression has a different meaning from where I am from? After while blaming all the ills on the “West” tends to go beyond a joke. Perversely, these poor schoolkids didn’t even warrant so much as whisper from the vocal “rent a mobs” one can only assume, despite all the piffle put about to the contrary “some muslims are more equal than others”
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Asallamu Alaikum Brother Elijah,
You said:
This is only because The Holy Prophet peace be upon him (saaws) had prophesized that Islam is destined to supersede all before ideas and beliefs. A mere human cannot of his own self can make such a remarkable prohecy.
The prophet had no power to prophesise brother!
Allah makes this quite clear in the following verses:
Say: “I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith.” 7:188
Say: “I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me.” Say: “can the blind be held equal to the seeing?” Will ye then consider not? 6:50
Say, “I am not the first Messenger. I do not know what will be done to me or to you. I follow only what has been revealed to me and my duty is only to give clear warning”. 46:9
The power of prophecy is in the hands of Allah only, any who say otherwise are fabricators and liers.
@Oigal
Any religion that uses violence or terror to uphold it views is truely mislead from the truth. There can be no defence for such methods from a religious viewpoint and all such actions from whatever religion should be condemmed.
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiI admit my mistake.
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@Oigal
I would never blame the pristine Christianity Jesus pbuh taught and pristine Judaism Moses pbuh taught for this.
What I am suggesting is that it may be that you doubt the Divine origins of Islam from the same God of Moses and Jesus, to which Jesus would soon testify upon his return,
http://www.jesuswillreturn.com
however, if you study Islam without any bias from Muslim sources you would recognise that Islam is not actually the way you thought it to be.
I am sorry for repetition.
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@Lairedion
You had said:
13:2 Allah it is Who raised up the heavens without visible supports, then mounted the Throne, and compelled the sun and the moon to be of service, each runneth unto an appointed term; He ordereth the course; He detaileth the revelations, that haply ye may be certain of the meeting with your Lord.
Heaven is resting on invisible pillars and the sun orbits the earth. Yeah right.And you had said:
Again Elijah, can you form your own opinion in stead of quoting others?
Are you sure that you actually know the Arabic enough to imply what you stated or you quoted someone else for some of your quotes are verbatim reiterations of a Christian missionary Dr.William Campbell, whose all objections were answered by Dr. Zakir Naik in a debate at US.
Standing by your word, can you show that the above verse actually implies that the sun orbits the earth? I, however have learned something more remarkable as the word yajree which in Arabic means to flow, to float , to swim quite remarkably describe the three-dimensional motion we have realized today.
To learn more, you may visit this
http://quranmiracles.com/
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/
http://harunyahya.com/
http://harunyahya.com/en.m_website_index.php -
Assalamu Alaikum Brother Elijah,
You said:
I would never blame the pristine Christianity Jesus pbuh taught and pristine Judaism Moses pbuh taught for this.
and:
however, if you study Islam without any bias from Muslim sources you would recognise that Islam is not actually the way you thought it to be.
Maybe Islam from Al Quran is the Pristine Islam, whilst the practices of those who blindly follow Hadith and Sunnah are what would not be recognised as Islam?
Allah all through Al Quran wishes us to return to and practice Pristine Islam, it is called The Deen of Nabi Ibrahim!
“Muhammad, as for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, you have no part in them in the least. Their affair is with God. He will inform them of the truth of all that they did.” 6:159
“Muhammad, say: ‘Truly, my lord, my superior has guided me to a way that is upstanding. It is an established and upright custom and culture; the religion of Abraham, one rightly inclined while he had no one around him of like mind.’ ” 6:161
“Muhammad, say: ‘God is true. Follow the religion of Abraham. He was rightly inclined while he had no one around him of like mind.’ ” 3:95
“Strive for God as He deserves to be strived for. He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulty on you concerning custom. Follow the religion of your forefather and founder, Abraham! He has mentioned you, being the submissive ones earlier in this (compilation). Let the messenger and the message testify for you, and you testify for humanity! Keep to prayer, compliments, dignified speech, oratory, discipline & blessings, being promotions of good and well-being. Do what is best, vindicating and virtuous. Hold onto God. He is your support; the best of support and the best to help!” 22:78
But they will say, “Become Jews or Christians to be guided.” Muhammad, say, “No. The religion of Abraham! He was rightly inclined while he had no one around him of like mind.” 2:135
“Those who will turn away from the religion of Abraham will only make fools of themselves. We have distinguished him in the earthly realm. In the very end he will surely be in the company of the righteous, the correct.” 2:130
The Deen of Nabi Ibrahim was given to us before the corruption of Talmud, New Testament and Hadith, none of those things are needed to follow it. Once we reject those corrupt lies and fabrications, we all return to True Islam. Jew, Christian, Muslim, ALL will be the same. No more use of God to justify wars, terrorism, subdjugation of women or supression of the ordinary people.
“Truly this, your community, is to be one, indivisble community . . But people have belittled this command. They belong to separate factions, and each party rejoices in that which it alone has. “ 23:52-53
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiYou said:
Maybe Islam from Al Quran is the Pristine Islam, whilst the practices of those who blindly follow Hadith and Sunnah are what would not be recognised as Islam?
It is by virtue of the great pains the Sahaaba radi Allahu anhum (raa) took to preserve what Rasoolullah sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam (saaws) taught that we have the complete Taleem (everything Rasoolullah saaws taught which constitutes al-Kitaab:The Scripture and al-Hikmah:The Wisdom) faithfully preserved without any change with us.
Brother, how can I forget the pain Hazrat Jabir bin Abdullah raa took of a month long journey to preserve a single saying of Rasoolullah saaws.As Allah says:
Laqad manna Allahu AAala almumineena ith baAAatha feehim rasoolan min anfusihim yatloo AAalayhim ayatihi wayuzakkeehim wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wain kanoo min qablu lafee dalalin mubeenin
3:164 Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.
Huwa allathee baAAatha fee alommiyyeena rasoolan minhum yatloo AAalayhim ayatihi wayuzakkeehim wayuAAallimuhumu alkitaba waalhikmata wain kanoo min qablu lafee dalalin mubeenin
62:2 It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom, although they had been, before, in manifest error.
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Assalamu Alaikum, Brother Elijah
I am sure that the Christians feel the same way about their Gospel writers as you do about the Companions of The Prophet. That doesn’t make the Gospels correct does it?
Allah confirms that He will protect Al Quran, he gives no such reassurance for Hadith and Sunnah.
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum Brother Elijah,
I thought you might find the following interesting:
From Historical Background:The Actual Status of Hadith
What we have gathered from the historical resources, is that we do find documents other than the Quran, that were written under the orders of Muhammad PBUH. For example, contracts, treatises and letters that he sent to other tribes. What in this matter, has come to our knowledge and what we have been able to gather, at the time of Messenger’s demise, are the following:
» A register containing the list of names of 1500 holy disciples or followers of Muhammad peace be upon him .
» The letters Muhammad PBUH wrote to various kings and rulers of that age or time.
» Documents of treatise and other obligatory rules.
» Hadiths from Hazrat Abdullah bin Omar, Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Uuns who wrote them on their own.
No one knows if these sayings written down were ever verified by the Messenger himself or not and whether they have come down to us in its original version. We have no knowledge of any collected works or hadith that Messenger himself gave to the Muslims before his departure from this world. We do in fact find in the Hadith of Bukhari, that someone asked Hazrat Ibn e Abbass as to what Muhammad PBUH had left behind for the Muslims. He said, ‘The Messenger left behind nothing, save the Quran.’ (Bukhari, Vol. III, Fuzail ul Quran.) (Sahih Bukhari: Virtues of the Quran)
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiJazakallah for your patience to continue.
You said:
I am sure that the Christians feel the same way about their Gospel writers as you do about the Companions of The Prophet. That doesn’t make the Gospels correct does it?
We all know that it is Allah who is the real Haafiz:The Protector of Az-Zikr: The Reminder and The Message,
15:9 Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikra wainna lahu lahafithoona
but the ground reality is that it is the Jamaa’ah of the Sahaaba raa, the number of them runs to over one hundred thousand ,who are the Huffaaz of Az-Zikr, and they are the ones who preserved everything He saaws said and did by learning it by heart, doing it practically and faithfully transmitting it to the generations to come. It is unconceivable that Sahaaba raa showed any weakness in transmitting anything necessary to the Tabiun raa.
The issue is not that a Muslim would hesitate to obey what Rasoolllah saaws has actually said and what he actually did because He saaws said nothing of his own and did only what was revealed to him as Allah told him to say
53:3 Wama yantiqu AAani alhawa
and neither does he speak out of his own desire
53:4 In huwa illa wahyun yooha
that [which he conveys to you] is but [a divine] inspiration with which he is being inspired46:9 in attabiAAu illa ma yooha ilayya
I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspirationI don’t exactly know what Sahaaba raa understood by the inspiration in 53:3, I don’t give my opinion without knowledge, however 46:9 states that whatever Rasoolullah saaws did was in accord with whatever inspiration he received.
If we analyze another verse
42:51 Wama kana libasharin an yukallimahu Allahu illa wahyan aw min warai hijabin aw yursila rasoolan fayoohiya biithnihi ma yashao innahu AAaliyyun hakeemunIt is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah’s permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise.
suggests that an inspiration beside the one that stipulates the sending of an angel is possible.Hence the issue is the investigation of what we know as Ahaadith As-Saheeha are the actual words of Rasoolullah saaws or not. That is to say that we should investigate that the methods used by Muhaddithun conforms to the one used by the Tabiun to receive the knowledge from Sahaaba raa directly who in fact are the source of Quran as well. This requires a revival of Uloomul Hadith in every age as suggested by Imam Ghazali in his treatise Ihyaa Uloomuddin. We should know all the Siqa Raavis as we know Abu-Bakr raa and Umar raa.
The origin of our uncertainty lies in our ignorance. And I hope if we learn more especially the pristine Arabic texts of Usoolul Hadith, which I have in a 3.7 GB software Maktaba As-Shamilah, which I would earnestly like to send you as a present either postally and if possible electronically, our doubts would turn to certainty contrary to the Christians who do not know even about the names of the connected chain all the writers and narrators upto Isa alaihis salaam (Jesus) himself where we have biographies (Ilm Ar-Rijaal) of thousands of narrators without break in chain upto Muhammad saaws himself plus the criticism Jirah of the experts and defence Tadeel for and against every narrator Raavi preserved in a way that I hope will qualify all the parameters of historical authenticity if an unbiased and comprehensive analysis is undertaken by even by a Western scholar.
I hope to dedicate myself to such a research, which should rather be termed as only a rediscovery.
If Allah says
Wala taqfu ma laysa laka bihi AAilmun 17:36
And never concern thyself with anything of which thou hast no knowledgeHe also says
Fatabayyanoo 49:6
ascertain the truth -
Wa’alaikum Salaam Brother Elijah,
He also says:
Ah woe, that Day, to the Rejecters of Truth! 77:19In time We will show them Our Signs in the utmost Horizons and within themselves, so that it will become manifest to them that this (Qur’an) is indeed the Truth. Is it not enough for them to know that your Lord is Witness to all things. 41:53
A.L.M.R, these are the signs of the Scripture. And what has been sent down to you from your Lord is the truth; but most of the people do not believe. 13:01
Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: “What means Allah by this similitude?” By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),- 2:26
The Truth is in your hands Brother Elijah, everytime you pick up Al Quran and recite from its pages, you need nothing else to fulfill the wishes of our Lord. Anything else is a diversion from Him.
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiScientists say that the earth is oval shaped, but it seems flat to me. It is not because they are wrong, it is because I don’t know something they know.I should rather I must investigate whether actually earth is oval shaped or not but I cannot insist that the earth is flat. I may however realise if I investigate that the actual shape of earth is actually more sophisticated than the word oval shaped had represented it to me.
This analogy nevertheless is not an absolutely accurate description of the discussion in our case.There are skeptics about God, there are skeptics about Quran, so there can be sketipcs about anything else. The cure of skepticism about God is to learn more about God from the source of knowledge about God. The cure of any skepticism is learning more about it. The more we know the more we discover our ignorance. Rather than arguing superficially about the words, we should concentrate on what they stand for. Hadith stands for what Rasoolullah saaws actually said, Sunnah stands for what Rasoolullah saaws actually did. And these are the two backbones of the Deen of Sahaaba raa on whom the Deen was actually completed as Allah says:
5:3 alyawma yaisa allatheena kafaroo min deenikum fala takhshawhum waikhshawni alyawma akmaltu lakum deenakum waatmamtu AAalaykum niAAmatee waradeetu lakumu alislama deenan famani idturra fee makhmasatin ghayra mutajanifin liithmin fainna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun
This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.To whom does this ‘you’ refers to? They are the ones who actually fulfilled the wishes of their Lord as He liked them to fulfil. They are the ones who are responsible for the pages of Quran in your hands. And treading their path can’t be called a diversion.I have an opinion, which can be wrong, that the preservation of the Deen of Sahaaba raa and Rasoolullah saaws doesn’t
require written texts.The number of those who word by word, letter by letter, memorised Quran was in thousands and they obeyed everything they listened from Rasoolullah saaws “Saminaa wa Atanaa” constitutes the Deen.When Imam Abu Hanifa rahimahullah says something his Qaul is not Hujjat.
When Imam Shaafii ra says the same thing we shoul at least consider what he says they might be saying the same thing as the Quran says.
When Imam Maalik ra says the same thing
When Imam Ahmad ra says the same thing
When Imam Bukhari ra says the same thing
When Imam Muslim ra says the same thing
When Imam Abudawud ra says the same thing
When Imam Ibn Maaja ra says the same thing
When Imam Tirmizi ra says the same thing
When Imam Nasaai ra says the same thing
Might be,they can even still be wrong, but they can be perfectly right as well, saying and doing the same thing as Rasoolullah saaws said and did, following them footprint by footprint.Hence, we must consider.I wonder if one hundred thousand gold coins belonged to someone, and someone else added coins that are not gold, would he disown all his coins because of the ones that are not gold?
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I 200% agree with you on this.
Ah woe, that Day, to the Rejecters of Truth! 77:19
In time We will show them Our Signs in the utmost Horizons and within themselves, so that it will become manifest to them that this (Qur’an) is indeed the Truth. Is it not enough for them to know that your Lord is Witness to all things. 41:53
A.L.M.R, these are the signs of the Scripture. And what has been sent down to you from your Lord is the truth; but most of the people do not believe. 13:01
Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: “What means Allah by this similitude?” By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),- 2:26
Brother, I am a human being and may commit sins, but if you had met me you would have not find nothing in my actions contrary to the Book of Allah. My belief in Sunnah gives me the practical guidance to practise Quran.
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Wa’alaikum Salaam Brother Elijah,
You said:
Hadith stands for what Rasoolullah saaws actually said, Sunnah stands for what Rasoolullah saaws actually did.
I would argue that point Brother Elijah. Hadith is what somebody says The Prophet said, and Sunnah is what somebody said The Prophet did. The only protected Hadith and Sunnah pertaining to The Prophet is that contained in Al Quran, all others are collected by men and are not afforded Allah’s protection. However this evades the point completely.
If Allah says His book is complete, perfect and fully detailed, then what possible requirement is there for the Sunnah and Hadith collected by men? Allah tells us that if all the oceans were ink he could have used them up and the same again if he had wished. He has told us exactly what we need to know to follow His Deen in Al Quran. Allah reinforces this point numerous times in Al Quran when he says to follow The Messenger, he never says follow Nabi Mohammed, he always uses the word Rasool or Messenger, implicit in this is following the message and not the man.
It is impossible to defend Sunnah and Hadith when what should have been the most important sermon given by The Prophet just prior to his death, has three versions! You remember? I leave you Al Quran, I leave you Al Quran and my Sunnah, I leave you Al Quran and my family. This sermon was witnessed by thousands of The Prophets followers and yet still exists in three versions, all of them being recorded as Sahih Hadith. If this most important event witnessed by thousands is in three versions what hope is there for things only witnessed by one?
Millions of people used to believe that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth, that didn’t make it true. It was simply from beleiving what they were told.
Something untrue in the beginning doesn’t become truth simply from the number of people who believe it, or from the length of time that that belief has been held.
Brother Elijah, you said:
Brother, I am a human being and may commit sins, but if you had met me you would have not find nothing in my actions contrary to the Book of Allah. My belief in Sunnah gives me the practical guidance to practise Quran.
None of us is perfect, even The Prophet made mistakes for which he was admonished in Al Quran. This is simply and illustration of the imperfection of Mankind, as compared to the perfection of Allah.
As to the question of actions contrary to Al Quran, may I ask you how you profess your faith, your Shahadah?
Do you in fact say “Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah Muhammad-ur-rasool-Allah”
I guess if you were a Shia you would say “Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah Ali-un-wali-Allah”
Or do you infact say “Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah”Let’s just take a look at what Allah tells us:
There is no god but He: that is the witness of Allah His angels and those endued with knowledge standing firm on justice. There is no god but He the Exalted in Power the Wise. 3:18
There is No god but He, That is the witness of Allah His Angels and those endued with knowledge. No mention of The Prophet or any other Prophets, No mention of Ali, or any Saints.
How do you think Prophet Mohammed used to perform his Shahadah? Do you think that he used to witness that he was the Messenger of Allah? or do you think that this may have been added in? It is certainly not in Al Quran is it? If it is so easy for a corruption to creep into the Shahadah, would it be inconceivable for corrution to have crept in elsewhere?
I hope that you can complete your search for the truth with an open heart, without it being clouded with traditions. I wish you all the best in your search.
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiAoodhubillaahi an atlubal ilm liujaariya bihil ulama wa liumaariya bihis sufahaa wa li asrifa wujoohannasi ilayya faman fa’ala zaalika adkhalahullahullahun naar au kamaa qaala rasoolullahi saaws
I seek refuge of Allah that I seek knowledge to impress(liujaariya) the learned ones(ulama), to argue(liumaariya) with the ones not learned(sufahaa), and to turn the faces of people towards me, because the one who does so, Allah would make him enter The Fire (An-Naar), as it reached to me with Sanad from Rasoolullah saaws.I have started to realise an urge inside me like the one mentioned above, so I seek refuge of Allah from this, and May Allah make my actions for His exclusive pleasure only.
May Allah make our discussion for learning of truth only, and not to prove ourselves, and give us an open heart to accept truth.
You said:
The only protected Hadith and Sunnah pertaining to The Prophet is that contained in Al Quran, all others are collected by men and are not afforded Allah’s protection.
In fact, Quran is also collected by men, but those about whom Allah says raziallahu anhum wa razoo anhu Allah became pleased with them and they became pleased with Him. If Abu Huraira ra wouldn’t thought it obligatory he wouldn’t have narrated to Hammaam bin Munabbih Tabii ra sayings of Rasoolullah saaws, whose manuscript Sahifa survives even today. The date of writing is around 50 A.H., hence if Sahaaba hadn’t transmitted anything other than Quran we wouldn’t have known anything other than Quran. I am thinking on the meaning of Az-Zikr whose protection Allah had assured does only refer to Quran or does it include anything else, beacause in another place in Quran Allah says to Rasoolullah saaws Innama anta Muzzakkir. Hence Az-Zikr can refer to everything Rasoolullah saaws taught to Sahaaba raa, but I am not yet sure.
You said:
Do you in fact say “Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah Muhammad-ur-rasool-Allah”
I guess if you were a Shia you would say “Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah Ali-un-wali-Allah”
Or do you infact say “Ash-hadu Allaa Elaaha Ellaa Allah”Allah says:Muhammadun rasoolu Allahi Al-Fath [48:29]
And I don’t know the basis of Shia.You said:
It is impossible to defend Sunnah and Hadith when what should have been the most important sermon given by The Prophet just prior to his death, has three versions! You remember? I leave you Al Quran, I leave you Al Quran and my Sunnah, I leave you Al Quran and my family.
I don’t know about the source of third Hadith,possibly a Shia source, but I am sure that the first two don’t contradict beacause the first one does talk about Quran, and it is not necessarily the account of Hajjatul Wadaa, and I doubt about the occasion of the second one, but I haven’t found the words that I leave behind only Quran in the first one, but the Hadith mentioning Quran and Sunnah is explicit with the words of I leave behind me Taraktu Fikum Amrain: Kitaabullahi wa Sunnata Nabiyyihi. You should analyze the Arabic text of that Hadith. I would Insha Allah give you the refernce.
…to be continued, I am getting late for my lab.
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Wa’alaikum Salaam Brother Elijah,
Here are the references to the three versions of the Sermon:
1) I leave with you Quran and Sunnah, Muwatta, 46/3
2) I leave with you Quran and Ahl al-bayt , Muslim 44/4, Nu2408; ibn hanbal 4/366; darimi 23/1, nu 3319.
3) I leave for you the Quran alone you shall uphold it. Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56.
One of The Prophets key points of the last address was reference to Al-Quran only for direction
“Verily I have left amongst you that which will never lead you astray, the BOOK OF ALLAH, which if you hold fast you shall never go astray. And beware of transgressing the limits set in the matters of religion, for it is transgression of religion, that brought destruction to (many people) before you.”
Ya Seen.
I swear by the Quran full of wisdom
Most surely you are one of the apostles
On a right way.
A revelation of the Mighty, the Merciful.
That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.
Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe.
Surely We have placed chains on their necks, and these reach up to their chins, so they have their heads raised aloft.
And We have made before them a barrier and a barrier behind them, then We have covered them over so that they do not see.
And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe.
You can only warn him who follows the reminder and fears the Beneficent God in secret; so announce to him forgiveness and an honorable reward. 36:1-11We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur’an making things clear:
That it may give admonition to any (who are) alive, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject (Truth). 36:69-70I completely support your statement:
May Allah make our discussion for learning of truth only, and not to prove ourselves, and give us an open heart to accept truth.
All Glory be to Him alone.
Peace
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Assalamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiThe Tahqeeq of the references above will require a long pause on my side. I have my finals on Feb 9. Brother, I without any hesiatation which we encounter when talking to an unknown person, would request you to send me your email at neorient@gmail.com, because we have spent quite of a time together.
The most benevolent suggestion from the depth of my heart for a Muslim brother is to respond to the call Hayya Alas Salaah, Hayya Alal Falaah and especially Assalaatu Khairum Minan Naum, which we both hear everyday despite our being away geographically, and it has been four years since now that I have not intentionally missed a Salaah and I have found such a bliss and happiness that if I were given the choice between a single Salaah in my life and becoming Bill Gates or the President of US, I would prefer the former. I have told you this because I learned a Hadith that the Izhaar disclosing a virtuous action is Jaaiz to motivate others.
We should pass every day of our life as if it were our last.
For now,Wama alhayatu alddunya illa laAAibun walahwun walalddaru alakhirati khayrun lillatheena yattaqoona afala taAAqiloona
6:32 What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not then understand? -
Assalamu Alaikum
Brother KhafiI can’t help disagreeing with this
Allah reinforces this point numerous times in Al Quran when he says to follow The Messenger, he never says follow Nabi Mohammed, he always uses the word Rasool or Messenger, implicit in this is following the message and not the man.
Beacause of
Al-Fath [48:29]
Muhammadun rasoolu AllahiAl-Ahzab [33:21]
Laqad kana lakum fee rasooli Allahi oswatun hasanatun liman kana yarjoo Allaha waalyawma alakhira wathakara Allaha katheeranAl-Hujurat [49:2]
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tarfaAAoo aswatakum fawqa sawti alnnabiyyiAn-Nisa [4:65]
Fala warabbika la yuminoona hatta yuhakkimooka feema shajara baynahumI admit that it is very easy to quote a verse on PC, but it’s difficult to concentrate on the meaning meanwhile. I apologise to you that I couldn’t manage to concentrate on all the verses you quoted. Beacause, surfing at internet is very different from Tilaawah and Tadabbur especially in Tahajjud.
I suggest that you prefer this format
Ya Seen.
to this
A.L.M.R,
because the former is how Sahaaba raa heard from Rasoolullah saaws.
The most worrying aspect for me about you is that Imam Malik ra had compared the Sunnah of the prophet to the ark of Noah and said : The Sunnah of the Prophet Mohammad (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) is like the Ark of Noah. Whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.” I feel that there is something he knew, which I don’t. And I would search for it.
Because, if we die with fewer good deeds but a sound Aqeedah is better than dying with many good deeds and a wrong Aqeedah, the example of which what I have personally seen are the Qadianis who practise Islam but their Aqeedah is absolute Kufr.
To learn meanwhile about what I believe, the book on this link would help. Don’t reply me, till I reply you next time.
http://us2.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/4635/THE_IMPORTANCE_OF_THE_AHL_AL-SUNNAH
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and this website
http://www.harunyahya.com/books/faith/al_sunnah/al_sunnah_creation.php -
“Verily the religion with Allah is Islaam”.
I welcome our sister to Islam amd hope Allah will guide and strenthen her heart.May Allah be with Us all. Amen.
Bashir Nuhu Mabai
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Dear Sister Kim,
Don’t trust this Mabai dude. He is a wolf in sheep’s skin. I checked his link and he is a Bahaist. This munafik is attempting to confuse you. Take this to heart:
005.057
O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers.Wasalam.
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Ryuken says:
@ Mohammed Khafi:
You can also try reading this link:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/refutation_to_quranists.htm
* If you say that the Hadith & Sunnah are compiled after Muhammad’s (s.a.w) death, then Al Qu’ran was also compiled after the death of Rasulullah (s.a.w).
* “Muhammad, as for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, you have no part in them in the least. Their affair is with God. He will inform them of the truth of all that they did.” 6:159
I think even you would agree that during the early days of Islam (i.e. the Khulafa ur Rasyidin era) there’s no such thing as Quranists (or Qur’an only Muslims), since every Muslims believed the Qur’an as well as the Hadith & Sunnah. That is an indisputable historical fact. Well, if that’s the case, then it seems that your Qur’an only group is a new innovation, a new ‘sect’ or ‘schism’ if you would, which further divide our own religion & ummah. Have you ever considered that perhaps you’re one of the people which was mentioned in Surah 6:159?
If you say that your interpretation of Islam (the Qur’an only approach) is the correct one, then it seems you’re smarter & holier than the Sahabahs who lived alongside Rasulullah (s.a.w), because we all knew that the Sahabahs believed and practiced the Qur’an along with the Hadith & Sunnah. Are you saying that you know more about Islam than they did?
* We shouldn’t made things up that wasn’t taught by Rasullullah (s.a.w). Muhammad (s.a.w ) taught Islam (he delivered the Quran and taught the Sunnah & Hadith), should we follow anything else (any other approach) that was not taught by him? Can we call those other things Islam as well? Or are they something new and invented? You decide.
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A minor correction: I think even you would agree that during the early days of Islam (i.e. the Khulafa ur Rasyidin era) there’s no such thing as Quranists (or Qur’an only Muslims), since every Muslims at the time believed the Qur’an as well as the Hadith & Sunnah.
Thank you. Cheers!
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Ryuken,
Yes of course Al Quran was compiled after The Prophets death, that is a well know fact, but Allah has promised to protect it from corruption!
As to Quran only, well that was what The Prophet practiced, and yes, of course his followers followed his wonderful example, but that was before the fabricators of hadith corrupted his example, with their imaginative fantasy stories, leading all the followers of these fabrications on a different path from Allah’s.
Let’s just look at what Allah says about His Book:
“The month of Ramadan is that in which was revealed the Qur’an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong).” 2:185
“Blessed is He Who hath revealed unto His slave the Criterion (of right and wrong), that he may be a warner to the peoples.” 25:1
“And certainly We have repeated for humankind, in this Qur’an, every kind of example, but the majority of humankind do not consent to anything but denying.” 17:89
“We have put forth for humans, in this Qur’an, every kind of example so that they may remember” 39:27.
“This Book, there is no doubt in it, it is a guide to those who keep their duty” 2:2
“A. L. R. These are the verses of a Book,- and a Qur’an that makes things clear. “ 15:1
“We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur’an making things clear: ”
36:69
” O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you
much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much: There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a clear Book, “ 5:15
“A.L.R. These are the verses of the clear Book.” 12:1
“These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear “ 26:2
“These are verses of the Qur’an,-a book that makes (things) clear;” 27:1
“These are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.” 28:2
“By the Book that makes things clear,”
43:2, 44:2
“And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.” 16:89
“We have already sent down to you verses making things clear, an illustration from (the story of) people who passed away before you, and an admonition for those who fear (Allah).”
24:34 Please also see 24:46, 65:11
“Shall I then seek a Ruler other than Allah? When He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) distinctly detailed”(6:114)
“And certainly We have brought them a Book, which We have detailed with knowledge, a guidance and mercy for a people who believe”(7:52)
“A Book of which the verses are distinctly detailed, an Arabic Qur’an for people who know”(41:3)
“Indeed We have made the verses detailed for a people who take reminder” 6:126
“And this Qur’an is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is in his possession and a distinct elucidation of the book, and there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the Worlds” 10:37“Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbour any doubt.” 6:114
“We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.” 7:52
“This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.” 10:37
“A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things): “ 11:1
“In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.” 12:111
“We have made the Night and the Day as two (of Our) Signs: the Sign of the Night
have We obscured, while the Sign of the Day We have made to enlighten you; that ye
may seek bounty from your Lord, and that ye may know the number and count of the
years: all things have We explained in detail.” 17:12
“And He it is Who has made the stars for you that you might follow the right way
thereby in the darkness of the land and the sea; truly We have detailed Our
revelations for a people who have knowledge.” 6:97
“And He it is Who hath produced you from a single being, and (hath given you) a
habitation and a repository. We have detailed Our revelations for a people who have understanding.” 6:98“This is the way of thy Lord, leading straight: We have detailed the signs for those who receive admonition.” 6:126
“Thus do We make the revelations detailed for a people who reflect” 10:24
“Thus do We make the revelations detailed for a people who use their reason” 30:28
“Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book, which is recited to them? Most surely there is a mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe” 29:51Lets take a look at what Allah says about Sunnah and Hadith:
Which Hadith, other than God and His revelations, do they uphold? 45:6
The Quran is not a fabricated Hadith; …it details everything. 12:111
Some people uphold vain Hadith to divert others from the path of God. 31:6
The only Sunna to follow shall be God’s Sunna. 17:77, 33:62, 48:23, 6:114
If you follow Sunnah and Hadith, you are not practicing Islam. Allah’s words or the words of Men, You choose!
Peace
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Cukurungan says:
but Allah has promised to protect it from corruption!
What is your evidence that the word you quoted was not a man made addition to protect their compile verses from scrutiny by other?
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Cuk said:
What is your evidence that the word you quoted was not a man made addition to protect their compile verses from scrutiny by other?
I have no more evidence for this than I have for the fact that Al Quran is “The Word of God” It is simply an act of faith, something which you appear to lack.
Peace
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Mohammed Khafi, don’t you think it’s unthinkable that all his life Muhammad (s.a.w) always recite Qur’anic verses only? What about his other daily speeches (speeches outside the Qur’an)? How about what when he told the Sahabahs to do certain things and not to do other things (which were not part of the Qur’anic revelations)? Did the Sahabahs ignore him??? Answer that!
If the Sahabahs only practiced the Qur’an (while ignoring Rasullullah’s other words and actions which were outside the Quranic verses) then it would we weird, wouldn’t it? Can you give me any proof that the Sahabahs ignored the Hadith & Sunnah???
As others have pointed out:
53:3 and neither does he speak out of his own desire
53:4 that [which he conveys to you] is but [a divine] inspiration with which he is being inspired
46:9 I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration
And I see you’ve been using ‘alternative’ (twisted) translations of certain verses:
45:6 Yusuf Ali: Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what exposition will they believe after (rejecting) Allah and His Signs?
45:6 Shakir: These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what announcement would they believe after Allah and His communications?
45:6 Pickthal: These are the portents of Allah which We recite unto thee (Muhammad) with truth. Then in what fact, after Allah and His portents, will they believe?12:111 Yusuf Ali: There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.
12:111 Shakir: In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.
12:111 Pickthal: In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is no invented story but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.As far as credibility is concerned, I’ll take Yusuf Ali’s, Shakir’s, or Pickthal’s translation/interpretation over yours any day. No offense.
MK, alternative translations is the cause of most schisms or sects within any religion. There’s no arguing that Islam as we know it is a religion which used both the Qur’an and Hadith as the main source of religious law. It’s been that way since the days of the Sahabahs and the Khulafaur Rasyidin.
And here comes a 20th century movement (Quranists ‘Muslims’) claiming that their ways and interpretations is the correct one, while even having the guts to admit that they don’t have (and don’t need) the proper knowledge of the correct Qur’anic translation techniques to begin with. Tell me, which is the schism/sect, and which is the true followers? Why did it take 14 centuries for the ‘true followers’ to emerge? Where were they before???
PS. ALL sects/schisms believe that their ways are the correct one while the rest of the ummah/followers all lost and had went astray.
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I have no more evidence for this than I have for the fact that Al Quran is “The Word of God” It is simply an act of faith, something which you appear to lack.
If it is simply an act of faith, so what is the different your faith with the other faith or religion, any religion founder and follower, such as Lia Eden and other fake prophet like your self would say the same thing that their holybook or their interpretation is the best one without any evidence
Why did it take 14 centuries for the ‘true followers’ to emerge? Where were they before???
Before 14 centuries the founder and financer of the true followers is still on the run or hiding because Hitler and NAZI was chasing on them
Comment on “Islam Revert”.
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@ Aluang Anak Bayang
First, I would like to say I do not LIVE in Indonesia, I live in New York City. I have stayed in Indonesia many times totaling over 14 months in country.
Secondly, I have never gone to Blok M. Like I said previously, I am married and do not find the type of ‘entertainment’ in Blok M or the multitudes of ‘massage’ parlors in Indonesia to be of any interest to me. Just because someone is not Muslim does not mean that they engage in such activities. I do find it amusing that the Indonesian government wants the women of such massage parlors to wear locks on their pants. Now if there is ANY action that is more absurd than that I do not know what it would be.
I do know that as my wife was a front desk manager in a luxury hotel in Jkt, she has told me of immoral behavior of many Muslim men bringing women to their hotel room. I know of the wave of ‘cell phone porn’ made by Indonesians that have cropped up recently including the case of students at the Universitas Islam Kadiri. You can not tell me that it is only ‘bule’ who engage in inappropriate activities.
By traitor you mean Kafir? Non-Muslim? Or do you mean white, bule? Either way you mean it is offensive. Oh, and I think you need to look up the word ‘traitor’ and see its meaning.
That might be advice better taken by the speaker of those words.
And just so you know, I have nothing against Muslims. Personally I dont care what someone believes as long as they dont try to push those beliefs on me. What I do have a problem with is that a number of Muslims, or Jews, or Christians, can not engage in a discussion of their beliefs without resorting to either, saying that their religion is the best or without seeing the problems in their own religion.
I just think the FPI is a negative for the Republic and that it is something that should be eliminated or controlled extensively.