A church is burned down in Purwakarta, West Java by local people feeling slighted at the lack of response to their protests over its construction.
In Citeko village, Plered district, Purwakarta, West Java on 20th May a church run by the Abdi Karya Foundation (Yadika) was burned down in an attack by hundreds of local people.
The building had formerly been a tile factory and was in the final stages of being converted into a church. Local residents had repeatedly complained about the conversion of the building into a church, and Citeko village head Andri Yani said the building was supposed to have been turned into a school.
Initial reports said no arrests had been made l6, later reports state that four people are being questioned by police over the attack. jakartapost
@HTP
I see what you are saying. As far as intermarrying goes I know from the Chinese employees that I have had, that they were forbidden to marry pribumis by their family and likewise with the Pribumis that have worked for me in the past. I see you have your conviction so I will leave with the words of a mighty warrior and a great reformer:
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!
General Emiliano Zapata
The way some Chinese treat their servants is no less than disgusting.
actually ‘some’ pribumi are not much better to their servants either, if the truth be known.
I am also sure that I would want to see justice done — that would be having the perpetrators prosecuted to the full extent of the prevailing law. The law would allow for these prosecutions to take place.
Rob, I don’t understand what you mean by the last sentence. The law would allow for the prosecutions to take place? I mean it’s already quite clear that there were no prosecutions, the law didn’t protect these people and there was no justice. Obviously this can make the victims, angry, hateful and desirous of revenge. Which as you say, just creates another cycle. So wouldn’t it follow that if the law were upheld, then that might be the solution to the endless rounds of hatred? People wouldn’t have to take things into their own hands to obtain justice. Also they wouldn’t feel that they could rape, kill and steal with impunity.
From Agnostic Javanese
DXP! I hate your kind! Leave Indonesia please!
No offense I am no racist, 2/3rds of my friends are chinese indonesian. Three quarters of them barely speaks chinese, and most would say they are proud Indonesian. They are my best palls, and miss them all.
Why act with so much hatred towards Javan muslims? Are you one of those the so called Chinese Elites? The one who droves Ferarri or some SLR? Who’s daddy’s is the big ass Chinese billionaire. Who spent millions of dollars gambling on Vegas every chinese new year.
If you so called beleive that Chinese Indonesian made up of 70% Indonesia’s economy, You’re absoulutely retarded! Plain RETARDED!
May be as javanese Indonesians we’re not so well rounded in the world of business. But let me tell you that we dominate the middle class, many are pioneers in research and technology. I work in US in a company that hired a lot of tallented Indonesian engineers. Too my surprise, most of them are ex-IPTN employees (Indonesian Graduates) and none of them are Chinese Indonesian. I hang out with my chinese friends, because they party more than these folks and I went to highschool with them (Age differences as well since I am 25).
I dont hate chinese, I hate the elitist kind such as yours who looks down on every pribumi. May be you are right in certain aspect that many chinese Indonesian owns big business in Indonesia, but that doesnt mean that others dont contribute as well.
I am not stating this to Chinese in General, but to this Lame ass! MoFo!
Asside, I appologize that it is badly written. But I am just a lowly Engineer.
And Rob, I praise your intellectuality and patience! I smell flame war!
Rob & kiwibali,
If we were not respecting each other here,
we would all be on the street trying to pick up a fight.
The fact that we all use words as weapons and refrain from physical abuse are signs that we all believe that there are better ways than violence, although we may sometimes used harsh words to express ourselves and abuse others.
So my respect is mutual with yours
As bad as it may sound, my postings in IM are signs that I am not isolating myself.
The fact that Indonesian Chinese are prejudged without a complete knowledge of their history, just tickles me.
At the moment, I am trying to get a project running which will benefit all indonesian and hopefully will touch the people’s heart and become more responsive to our current impotent government. I am not trying to brag about it but I hope this will work.
Janma…
Bad sentence construction on my part 😀
What I was trying to say was that the current law would allow for prosecutions to happen now. The fact that they have not happened is attributable to indifference and a lack of commitment on the government’s part, a sort of ‘if we ignore it, it will go away’ attitude.
I agree there has been no justice. This is not a result of insufficient law being in place but rather a lack of enforcement. The same can be said about the violent suppression of demonstrations including the then violent suppression of demonstrations in and around Megawati’s PDI headquarters. A complete lack of law enforcement or perhaps law enforcement being involved from the outset is what is making the pursuit of justice now as difficult as it is!
Do I accept without justice the potential for violence remains, yes. That is my point. With effective law enforcement then I think a situation can be created that would allow for this cycle of violence to be broken (point from a much earlier post). That said, I also understand HTC’s point / rationale that without justice being served this allows for the continual festering of hatred and it also allows those who are inclined or who have a propensity for violence to think that they can harm others and get away with it. I was really advocating ways of getting past this so that this cycle is broken rather than accepting that it will continue unabated.
Any failure to see justice done only exacerbates the problems and does not resolve them…
Agreed! The culture of impunity must be ended. My beef with HTC was really only about the means to achieve the end.
Lairedion…
Thanks…how boring would the world be if everyone agreed? Healthy disagreement is fine with me 😀
I encourage people to enter into open, vigorous, and constructive debate without the need to threaten or resort to violence to win the argument or debate. For me, we can agree to disagree and still move forward…
But the idea of world domination and the world united under my thoughts sounds like something I could grow to like 😉
Although, absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely (I read that somewhere), so my happy little world would eventually unravel at some point in time, wouldn’t it?
In fact I am dissapointed why there is no riot this May in Jkt ? as anniversary of 1998 May riot, in this round we are fully ‘prepared’. The first time your house get burn down – you may feel schocked & fear at that time, but not at the second time …. we stock piled our amunition to retaliate
Friend you are only allowed to watch the show on TV screen but we will never give you a remote control to switch the TV program as you wish therefore what you can do just enjoy our show and if you do not like it, you are cordially invited to relieve your anger and pain in this forum. Sorry at moment we could not give you too much privilege but you could not deny that we still give you better place to life even than China Mainland could offer because in here you are still allowed to have Kid as many as you wish and you are allowed to become FalunGong member. And lastly, Indonesia still give you happier place to life than Singapore because living condition in Singapore, your life like animals in Zoo it seemed everything predictable and fulfilled but less happiness while in Indonesia, you can go wild like animals in jungle and yes there is big problem but if you can pass it the reward always so huge
@Cuk,
Thank you Cuk, we -chinese- appreciate your thoughtfulness & kindness. But I don’t quite understand why living in Singapore = Zoo? I think living in Indonesia is more predictable in my opinion. On the contrary, living in Indonesia is like living in a cage in the middle of a jungle 🙂 But you’re right about the jungle part, and the show that you are offering for us. A lot of monkeys to watch 🙂
Falungong? Last time I know it was banned. Are you sure about this Cuk?
You are very thoughtful toward us chinese. We really appreciate this Cuk. Oh by the way who is that on the picture? Your son?
Thank you.
you can go wild like animals in jungle
I deeply thought about the above statement, sadly it is true. In Indonesia the elite class enjoy to ‘go wild’ politically & economically like predators, the sad story is in the rural & low class society, analogy to the jungle theory, the rural society left with no choice to struggle day by day to feed the family.
As a pluralistic nation, we shall be unified against ‘any kind of jungle predators’. In contrary, the Singapore country offer stable political & economical landscape which is surely bad place for the kind of ‘Indonesia predators’. An Indonesian who claimed it is better to live in Indonesia because you can go wild like animals in jungle
… I think he is one of the predator himself in this country.
Wanna example : Porong mud flow, go drill wildly – ignore the environment & geophysics technical measurement – and you can be free from low class society for any damages, yet is a jungle – the stronger can bully the weaker without the risk of trials
re DNA
I’m not an expert in this field, but could it be that in the long run culture, education and other environmental factors have an influence on DNA? Or is DNA something purely physical?
This is not a statement, only a question.
Dewa – answer to the question: NO, DNA is not in anyway affected by culture or education; nor is it by environment, unless you want to look at things on a grand scale – our DNA is no longer the same as that of the fishy little creatures from which we evolved over many millions of years – but it’s not that different either…
I just spent a little time reading every comment posted about Purwakarta Church burning and now I would like to add my humble voice to this discussion. My comments are:
1. Indonesia is quite the enigma on one hand declaring itself a peaceful republic that states the following in its constitution:
Chapter X: Citizens and residents
Defines citizens and residents and states that all citizens are equal before the law. Details the human rights guaranteed to all, including:
* the right of children to grow up free of violence and discrimination
* the right of all to legal certainty
* the right to religious freedom
* the right to choose education, work and citizenship as well as the right to choose where to live
* the right of assembly, association and expression of opinion
* the right to be free from torture
It also states that the rights not to be tortured, to have freedom of thought and conscience, of religion, to not be enslaved, to be recognized as an individual before the law and to not be charged under retroactive legislation cannot be revoked under any circumstances. Furthermore, every person has the right to freedom from discrimination on any grounds whatsoever.
Finally, every person is obliged to respect the rights of others.
[edit] Chapter XI: Religion
See also: Religion in Indonesia
The nation is based on belief in God, but the state guarantees religious freedom for all.
2. On the other hand a blind eye is given to politicians, businessmen, the military, & certain religious leaders & their followers to run amok and flout the constitution and at their discretion.
Cite: Tommy Soharto planned execution of a Supreme court judge, his year long flight from justice & hiding in plain sight.
Cite: Religious tensions in Maluku and Sulawesi resulting in several thousands of deaths. The government appears inept as it continues to do as little as possible to quell groups such as Laskar Jihad from inciting violence against both Christians and moderate muslims who dare to speak against the violence.
Cite: Christmas Eve bombings in 9 cities across the country in 2000.
Cite: The 1998 gang raping and killings of thousand of ethnic Chinese Indonesians allegedly by members of the military forces.
These are only a handful of the atrocities committed within the Archipelago during the last decade or so. The only time I can remember a political leader really standing up forcibly against these acts was Former Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) when he harshly criticised the forced closure by local Muslim militants of the St Bernadette Catholic School in Cileduk during Oct 2004. Many of the students attending the school were mentally impaired.
Perhaps its time for the nation of Indonesia to reexamine its constitution and decide if it really meant “all its citizens” or all its citizens who are Muslim and not members of minorities? You cannot have it both ways and even the USA in its recent history had to wrestle this same dilemma as it had to decide if Blacks had equal rights and protection under the constitution.
there’s growing concern that the genetic discoveries made possible through the Human Genome Project will lead to racism supported by differences in the genes between different “races.”
Re DNA debates, I see different point of view. The superpower countries who control & sponsor the above Human Genome Project who try to map every possible human’ DNA into their super large DNA data base mining, it is a matter of time when they hv enough data for mapping the DNA’s vectors into semantic grouping of DNA’s traits that belong to certain races, that is the big danger as it will sponsor racism activites globally.
They should hv done DNA test & record keeping for all the terrorist suspects in the Guantanamo detainees center and other places which then they can use it as the ‘pre-emptive strike’ to perform ‘early warning signals’ to protect certain races against certain races and that is the real racist activities.
Religions shall be the umbrella for nurturing harmony & sponsor peaceful live among different races. Eventhough eventually technology can describe the DNA attributes belong to certain race, so technically speaking there are races who carry more superior traits and there are some natural losers, if that is a nature calls so be it. The correct way that religion is the buffer to educate the more powerful race to be more compassionate & give help to the less fortunate one.
What is happening in the world, religion is being used to attack the stronger one because the losers are seeing bleak & hopeless future and the stronger one uses technology to counter attack with pre-emptive strikes based on advance technology.
This fenomena is an upside down, tupsy turvy situation which certainly will create bigger catasthrope of human man kind in future
Raden
What is happening in the world, religion is being used to attack the stronger one because the losers are seeing bleak & hopeless future and the stronger one uses technology to counter attack with pre-emptive strikes based on advance technology.
Very wise and at the same time very disturbing words.
I don’t agree what Deng Xiao Phing has said about the Javanese.,i.e., Javanese + Muslim = Amok capable,target Chinese & minorities. If you are Indonesian and feel that Indonesia is not safe then its time you find a place where Chinese is “welcomed.” The way you put it is that we all Javanese are racialist but don’t forget that when Hong Kong was handed over to China, the Hong Kong Chinese became racialist towards those who are not Chinese by racial origin! Take note of this!
On that point I see an ad in today’s Jakarta Post which seems to announce a mass rally at Monas on Sunday in support of religious freedom and tolerance, it bears the signatures of many prominent Indonesians. We will see how many people actually turn up as opposed to the 10,000 I saw at Monas a month or so back supporting some Islamic Party or other, a peaceful enough bunch but given the number of pro Hamas and Hizbullah banners in the audience and the virulence of the speakers it was an uncomfortable reminder of what is lurking under the surface of an Indonesia we westerners rarely see.
Well, I’m not sure about the etiquette of quoting myself but as anyone who watched the news can see there was a not terribly surprising response to this “tolerance” rally in Monas yesterday afternoon: the handful of moderate Muslims, Christians and Ahmadiya celebrating the ideals of Pancasila were beaten up by the fascists of Hizbut Tahrir and the FPI!
Way to go Indonesian tolerance.
What baffles me is that I saw the FPI boys streaming out of Istiqlal Mosque on the way to beat the peaceniks up, first of all why in the hell are they being allowed to defile the ‘national’ mosque? But more importantly where were the cops?
There were over a thousand police officers on duty marshalling the huge PDI-P rally, some were even directing traffic to allow the FPI goons a direct route to Monas but apparently there wasn’t a rozzer to be seen when the beatings started. Very odd considering the senior policeman is quoted in today’s JP as saying that he warned the tolerance marchers they might get attacked. So why the hell weren’t his men there to protect them?
I think it’s time to call it a day on this whole Pancasila business, it’s clearly not worth the paper it’s written on.
BB…
The coppers here are violence containment officers and not protection officers. Their main purpose is to direct the violence and then contain it in a certain place. I wrote about this on my blog.
The image of thugs streaming out of a mosque towards Monas hell bent on violence is an ugly image and one the Indonesian government should be embarrassed by. It makes a mockery of the idea of unity in diversity or fragmented but one (whatever your prefered translation)…
The government says that it is going to take action. Well the time is nigh to make the distinction between just talking the talk and now starting to walk the walk.
Pancasila is worth the paper it is written on as an ideal. The problem is not with the ideal but with the comprehension of those ideals and the subsequent enshrining of those ideals into the national consciousness. A belief in a one true God is not a belief only in Allah. Indonesia will soon be at a crossroads with whether it wants to be secular or non-secular and this will determine the use and maintenance of an ideology like Pancasila.
It turns out that my boss actually is one of those who is now laid up in hospital after being beat up in yesterday’s clash with FPI. For all those who have in the past complained there are no Muslims who stand up and are willing to put their lives on the line against intolerant versions of Islam and radicals, I can only point to him as an example of what some Muslims are willing to go through to promote the good in their religion.
I can only point to him as an example of what some Muslims are willing to go through to promote the good in their religion.
And that is enormously to the credit of your boss, I wish him and his courageous fellow demonstrators a speedy recovery.
It just struck me that there was another group at Monas yesterday besides the cops who could have stopped this aggro, as I mentioned already there was over one hundred thousand supporters of PDI-P in the park. They were all proudly wearing their red Sukarno/Mega t-shirts, they were there ostensibly to promote and celebrate the concept of Pancasila, they vastly outnumbered the FPI thugs yet as far as I can see not one of them intervened to help protect the tolerance marchers.
I guess free t-shirts and portions of nasi-goreng along with some cigarette money and a nice wee bus trip to Monas for the afternoon was more important than the actual political principle they were supposedly defending.
The cynic inside all of us would say that Megawati erred on the side of pragmatism here and decided that there was no political mileage in stepping in and defending AKKBB even if that would have been the right thing to do!
The rent-a-crowd political rallies are something, aren’t they? A free t-shirt, nasi bungkus, a packet of cancer sticks, and a free bus ride can get “supporters” out in their thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands). I reckon if they had of whacked in a free gyrating Pancasila concert with the likes of Inul, Yessy Vibrator, and Dewi Persik there might have been hundreds of thousands in attendance.
There have always been “Indonesians” of all faiths, creeds, and ethnicities willing to lay it on the line. This has been the case even where the odds have seemed to be insurmountable.
I do not necessarily agree that it is time to draw the line through Pancasila, but it is time to draw the line on violence and the inability, inactivity, or the lack of desire for those in power to do something about it! It is time that the government stood up and was counted. The State needs to enforce its laws. Plain and simple where violence is committed those that commit it must be prosecuted to the fullest extent available. No ifs, no buts, and no maybes!
Dyjoko says – It turns out that my boss actually is one of those who is now laid up in hospital after being beat up in yesterday’s clash with FPI.
Bravo for your boss! What about you, how come your still standing? Did you stay home?
Actually it is not easy 2 stand 4 your beliefs & convictions as a terrible price is sometimes extracted by the opposition. However, what price will be paid in the future if Indonesians continue to ignore whats happening around them?
Who will defend the minorities within Indonesia? A basic natural law is the right to defend yourself, your family. your friends and property. Who among us would not do this? Who can blame the Chinese or other minorities in Indonesia from wanting to protect themselves when they have good reason 2 believe that the Indonesian government will not?
It’s your country & your future and your either part of the solution or part of the problem!
Bravo for your boss! What about you, how come your still standing? Did you stay home?
I’m overseas temporarily, heading back to Indonesia soon. Furthermore at any rate I wouldn’t have been able to go, as being the good law abiding foreigner I am I stay out of political demonstrations while in country.
It has been five years since I returned to my country. I really thought things were going to get better. But that was just wishful thinking. Rather than hundreds of churches being destroyed in one spurt like in 98, now we have a few churches being burned every week. And then after what happened yesterday… No, things are actually getting worse. I’m quite convinced of that.
It’ s usual in this country. Get what I,m Trying to say ?
If you are Indonesian and feel that Indonesia is not safe then its time you find a place where Chinese is “welcomed.”
statements like this are SO juvenile! If you are Indonesian and feel that Indonesia is not safe, then it’s something that the government has the responsibility to try and resolve, not just tell chinese indonesians to go find a place chinese are welcomed!
Janma…
Can I agree and disagree on the same point?
Is the statement juvenile? Perhaps to a certain degree. I agree that the answer is not to cut and run but to demand more from the government to “resolve” the issues. Starting with proper law enforcement might be as good a place as any.
I would not have focused on the Chinese, but rather any Indonesian who does not feel safe. If you do not believe the government is capable of protecting you then you need to make decisions to ensure that you live in the way that you feel you are entitled to or at a very base level survive.
Let’s face it, the government is not doing what it needs to in order to ensure that all elements of the Indonesian community are protected. Consequently, some elements of the community do not feel safe.
Some of the earlier posts highlight this in rather extreme fashion. I might disagree with the way DXP and HTC characterized the problem(s), but I accept that they believe that they are victims in waiting because the government is not providing the law enforcement that is required to ensure that they may live peaceful lives without unwarranted interference from others.
For my mind violence begets only more violence. However, if the government is not going to protect you then you must have the right to protect yourself and your family through whatever means are available to you. One of those means might be migration to a country that accepts you. Another option might be to stay where you are and hope that your government gets it sooner rather than later that there is a problem that needs to be resolved.
In the interim perhaps there are Indonesians who would feel safer somewhere else. For me that is sad that you have to leave your homeland because you do not feel safe for whatever reason! I have not experienced that and cannot really imagine what it must be like. I am an Australian choosing to live in Indonesia and not having to live in Indonesia because my government does not protect me through the application of an impartial law and order regime!
So, can I agree and disagree at the same time?
You can do both, it’s no problem, agree and disagree… I was taking issue with the way she says… you don’t like indonesia, go to where they like chinese…. You never hear these “pribumi’s” say that other pribumi’s should just leave indonesia if they don’t like it!
That statement is based on race, not nationality. Even Indonesians of Chinese descent should be able to criticize their own government. They should be able to expect as much as any pribumi to have their rights recognized.
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Tony,
I don’t have the answer for you in that matter. If you believe that history repeats itself, then it is the case in Indonesia, and not only once but more than 10 times
So far, when I look at the social political situation surrounding all the riots in Indonesia, they are mostly the same. Since 2001, those who commemorate the May 98 riot have been constantly, again, intimidated to keep their mouth shut. I would not be surprise if mass riots against chinese will happen again.
I don’t really know. I can only speculate that it was.
No, it comes from the government who did not protect minorities against violence for whatever reason, including the badly treated servants.
No, it comes from the corrupt government who prefer the majority pribumi to stay in poverty and failed to provide a sensible education so they can play with it in the future.
No, it comes from the government who still let fundamentalists roam and freely threaten people.
Until the 1960s, Indonesian chinese have been friendly, peacefully living in Indonesia, transfering much needed technology in agriculture, trade, politics, promoting national harmony, intermarried the pribumis and many things.
And now that things have turned sour, it will take both sides to make peace.